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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-11-09

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Time Nick Message
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01:28 luizrpgluiz hi
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01:32 luizrpgluiz someone like Terasology project and also enjoys developing projects in Java?
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02:22 hmmmm meh :/
02:22 hmmmm http://fpaste.org/149034/15499756/
02:23 hmmmm i think the opaque handle idea was sort of overcomplicated for no good reason
02:25 hmmmm i'm not going to add this handle system unless other people use it aside from me
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06:16 paramat RBA > 'no trees, no plants, no biomes, sharp cut out areas' the cut out areas fooled me for a minute, but they're actually cliffs generated by the code
06:18 paramat Calinou > 'caves are too tight' yes, the new eased noise has a larger amplitude, this made caves too narrow, i had to retune the caves threshold parameter, thanks for feedback i will make them a little wider
06:19 hmmmm paramat, ??
06:19 hmmmm did the original v5 caves use eased noise?
06:20 paramat Blockmen > 'well, maybe better paramt adds those and makes a pull' yes i will add biome definitions
06:20 paramat hmmmm, yes
06:21 hmmmm hmmmmm
06:22 paramat terrain seems higher and more epic too (not complaining)
06:23 hmmmm heh.
06:23 hmmmm i'll have to check it out later
06:23 hmmmm .
06:24 paramat and i still have to get the blobs spflag working, very useful to disable those
06:27 hmmmm hrm
06:27 hmmmm what's wrong with the spflag?
06:28 paramat details are in the pull thread on github
06:29 paramat probably a silly mistake with my use of spflags
06:29 paramat my buggy spflag code is in there but commented out
06:31 hmmmm whoops
06:31 hmmmm you never copied over spflags from the mapgen params
06:32 hmmmm this->spflags = params->spflags;
06:32 paramat in the ctor?
06:32 hmmmm yes
06:33 paramat oh yeaahhh ... =}
06:33 paramat thanks!
06:34 hmmmm if it makes things easier to keep track of, i suppose you could just keep a pointer of the entire MapgenParams in your mapgen object and keep writing params->water_level or params->sparams->spflags & MGV5_BLOBS
06:35 paramat okay i'll make a pull soon with wider caves and spflags fix
06:36 hmmmm should probably make two separate pulls for that
06:36 paramat okay
06:37 paramat weird i can't see spflags in the v7 ctor
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06:38 hmmmm well, v7 looks bugged
06:38 hmmmm it has the same problem you do
06:38 hmmmm only difference is that i never noticed mine
06:38 paramat lol
06:41 paramat nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/339 very important pull, issue is causing slow down in mgv5 v7 and singlenode, pull will be ready for merging very soon
06:43 paramat nore also https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/336 please could you look at this sometime?
06:43 nore yep
06:43 nore also, for a pine tree model, what do you think of the one used in mg?
06:44 hmmmm ugh
06:44 hmmmm i need to brainstorm on what a good interface would be for creating schematics
06:44 hmmmm what's currently there clearly blows
06:45 hmmmm maybe there's some kind of plugin capability for some kind of 3d model editor
06:45 paramat mtgame mapgen (default/flowers) needs rewriting anyway to use the biome API or voxelmanip (yes i will eventually do this)
06:45 hmmmm slow down there!  the biome api needs to be fixed first, it's totally screwed
06:45 paramat i will gladly slow down
06:46 paramat schems can be saved in worldedit
06:46 hmmmm yeah I added that capability
06:46 hmmmm but the interface really sucks because i just made it as a proof of concept thing
06:48 paramat nore i'll look at the mg pine, i might collect a few designs for each tree
06:50 paramat i think that mtgame mapgen, which uses 'add node', is running first and dirtying the mapgen voxelmanip, forcing a vm reread of the map > huge slowdown, this is why mtgame mapgen should use voxelmanip
06:51 hmmmm no i changed that remember?  it updates the buffer inside of addNode
06:51 hmmmm so there's no rereading necessary
06:51 paramat ah perhaps i misunderstood how that works
06:51 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/9e4e7072da8f565eef37da7558053a436b9cbba3
06:52 paramat i assumed that if a 'add node' mod runs before a voxelmanip mod, it dirtied the vm and forced a lengthy reread
06:52 hmmmm that's how i originally proposed fixing it
06:53 paramat okay good so no slowdown, big relief
07:16 Zeno` so is there supposed to dirt/grass/sand/trees in mgv5, or not?
07:17 Zeno` the screenshot in the PR has them, but all I've seen so far is stone
07:19 paramat zeno, not
07:20 paramat you can use anything that adds biomes to mgv7, such as ethereal
07:20 Zeno` ah ok
07:21 paramat but i will be adding biome/decoration definitions and tree schematics to mtgame asap
07:21 Zeno` I'll have to remember to merge them into my fork of mtgame heh
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07:22 paramat hopefully for 0.4.11 there will be basic mgv6-biomes-plus-snow biomes
07:23 paramat to avoid reviews such as 'seems bleak' lol (< hmmmmm actual review of mgv7)
07:23 Zeno` yes
07:23 Zeno` and snow is optional?
07:26 paramat i was going to make snow biomes default in mgv5
07:30 Zeno` that'd be nice. Snow scares me
07:31 kilbith when for snow in v6 ?
08:00 Zeno` I think I will close #1777
08:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1777 -- Tweak third person eye location by Zeno-
08:01 Zeno` A different solution (alluded to by BlockMen) would be more appropriate I think
08:02 paramat kilbith, mgv6 has to remain unchanged to avoid breaking old worlds, so snow biomes must be by mod
08:03 kilbith ok thanks
08:05 kilbith Zeno` : possible to adjust the eye position dynamically in-game ? eg. with Ctrl+[mouse_scrolling]
08:07 Zeno` kilbith, that's another possibility (and would also work if dynamic eye position was ever worked on for 3rd person camera) but there still needs to be a default position for the 3rd person camera and I guess it might be nice to change that default
08:08 Zeno` I mean "automatically dynamic", possibly in conjunction or in addition to your suggestion
08:09 Zeno` I'll close the PR
08:12 kilbith Zeno` : I guess that the current eye pos is appropriate when you're in confined places like caves, close to the player.
08:12 Zeno` I think that kilbith's idea AND user settable default in the minetest.conf are good ideas
08:13 Zeno` I'd agree kilbith
08:13 Zeno` I don't think it should be up to the server
08:13 kilbith we're in agreement then
08:13 Zeno` although that option should stay as well in case the server implements some kind of special effect by manipulating eye position
08:14 * Zeno` nominate kilbith to implement it
08:14 kilbith haha
08:14 kilbith you will have to wait ages so
08:14 kilbith i'm not a dev at all
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08:42 paramat Zeno` to reduce floaty stuff in mgv5, also try reducing the ground noise persistence to around 0.4, this makes 3D noise smoother, less overhangs and floaty stuff. i recommend playing with the noise parameters before trying to code out the floaty stuff
08:44 RealBadAngel #1808
08:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1808 -- Adjust the values of dirs1 and dirs2 so that rotate_and_place orients textures correctly by dvere
08:44 RealBadAngel any objections bout it?
08:45 Zeno` paramat, good idea
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08:59 RealBadAngel kahrl, here?
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09:04 RealBadAngel kahrl, http://i.imgur.com/pdewNA0.png
09:04 Zeno` what's that?
09:04 RealBadAngel extruded meshes of dropped are broken
09:05 Zeno` are the shaders updated?
09:05 RealBadAngel also it looks like filtering is enabled there
09:05 Zeno` I saw that exact same thing yesterday but can't remember how I triggered it
09:05 RealBadAngel its extrusion code by kahrl
09:06 RealBadAngel somehow it works ok for wielded but is buggy for entities
09:06 Zeno` damn
09:06 Zeno` I thought it was because of my changes to shaders
09:06 Zeno` (which are not in HEAD of course, I was mucking around)
09:07 Zeno` otherwise I would have mentioned it
09:07 RealBadAngel what were you coding btw?
09:07 Zeno` nothing useful, I was just experimenting to learn
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09:25 Calinou 2014-11-08 23:25 BlockMen          o Revert "Fix fire blocking sunlight"
09:26 Calinou WHAT
09:26 Calinou THE
09:26 Calinou FUCK
09:26 Calinou BlockMen is officially subscribed to Moronix
09:26 Calinou can't stand him anymore
09:26 Calinou needs to go away from core devs
09:27 RealBadAngel whats going on?
09:27 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/com​mit/929559fe8554473f0d7571fedc15251b5c4afda7
09:28 Amaz Moronix?
09:29 RealBadAngel i do also agree its a nonsense, but maybe you should ask him why he did that
09:29 RealBadAngel we all have sometimes stupid ideas
09:30 Calinou by the way, new extruded meshes work fine on 256² packs, 16² too
09:30 RealBadAngel yeah, but entities are broken
09:30 RealBadAngel kahrl needs to fix that asap
09:30 Calinou how do you create v5/v7 biomes simply?
09:31 Calinou I just want some trees, grass, sand for now
09:31 kilbith Calinou, because of that : http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2014-11-08#i_4013299
09:31 RealBadAngel Calinou, use nores mg
09:31 Calinou well, BlockMen should also not revert either like that
09:31 Calinou I'm talking about v5/v7
09:31 Calinou I don't want fancy pansy biomes
09:31 Calinou something as close to v6 as possible
09:32 RealBadAngel so idk, v5 and v7 are WIP
09:32 Amaz https://gist.github.com/Amaz1/eee1efcbf6c483d0e03f
09:32 Amaz Calinou ^
09:32 Amaz Basic code for doing it.
09:32 Calinou will test
09:32 Calinou but no trees?
09:32 Amaz Nope.
09:33 Amaz Have a look at BFD.
09:33 Amaz https://github.com/Jordach/big_freaking_dig
09:34 Amaz That has a good basic(ish) mapgen in the mapgen mod.
09:34 Calinou if math.random(1,4000) == 69 then
09:36 paramat Calinou i have biome defs for mgv5, i go find them ...
09:37 Amaz paramat, Brilliant work! Thank you!
09:38 paramat https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=160506#p160506 and the post below for saplings
09:38 paramat trees by schematics are coming
09:39 paramat Calinou > 'caves are too tight' yes, the new eased noise has a larger amplitude, this made caves too narrow, i had to retune the caves threshold parameter, thanks for feedback i will make them a little wider
09:39 Calinou they should be about as wide to what they were in 0.3
09:39 Calinou was good
09:40 paramat i have a build with the old noise code, so i can work on matching them up
09:42 RealBadAngel paramat, and about strange ideas, i just cant understand, why u are going to use schematics when you have lsystems aviable
09:43 RealBadAngel easier to use, flexible, providing random look
09:44 paramat hmmmmm explained, because schems are fastest
09:45 paramat actually im not keen on schems myself, but hmmmmm wants all mapgen other than mgv6 to use schems and the biome API, decoration code etc
09:45 RealBadAngel if you order it to make several k tree it is slower
09:46 RealBadAngel and even, the result of using schemes wont be even slightly comparable to lsystem one
09:46 RealBadAngel plants are not circuits or buildings
09:47 paramat i havent tried lsystems yet, very interesting method
09:47 RealBadAngel install moretrees
09:48 paramat perhaps i'll try some small trees ...
09:48 RealBadAngel theres even replacement for default trees
09:48 RealBadAngel but you have to enable it in moretrees config
09:48 RealBadAngel theyre just slightly bigger
09:49 paramat might try =)
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09:50 RealBadAngel also if we would decide to replace default trees in core by using lsystem trees, it would mean trashing all the treegen code and adding 3-4 lines instead
09:50 RealBadAngel in fact struct filler and a call
09:52 RealBadAngel paramat, http://www.bigplasticfork.co​m/Images/Misc/terasology.jpg
09:52 paramat Calinou, for wider caves use this for cave1, cave2 noises: 'np_caven = NoiseParams(0, 5.0, v3f(50, 50, 50), 52534, 4, 0.5);'
09:52 RealBadAngel i hope to see such mapgens here one day
09:52 RealBadAngel and who, but you can understand it
09:53 paramat ive read about his mapgen method
09:53 paramat *his/her dunno
09:53 Calinou Terasology mapgens are unusable
09:53 RealBadAngel idk, but landscape with huge trees is just awesome
09:54 Calinou large trees would be nice though
09:54 Calinou we never had any in default Minetest
09:54 paramat it uses a hardcoded large scale island shape, doing that by noise is better
09:54 paramat but it has downhill rivers lol i cant do that yet
09:55 RealBadAngel lsystem code is here since ages
09:55 RealBadAngel it just waits for being used
09:58 paramat Calinou, for wider caves reduce caves noise scale, original was 12, current 7.5, future perhaps 5.0? what feels right for you?
10:00 Calinou try 7
10:00 Calinou shouldn't be too big either
10:00 Calinou the goal is to imitate 0.3 caves, which were quite right
10:00 paramat okay 7 is good, so i was close then?
10:06 RealBadAngel paramat, http://imgur.com/a/PXyaA#0
10:06 paramat i also tried 5 and thought somewhere between 5 and 7.5 the best match to the build with the old noise code
10:07 paramat nice, i like fractals
10:07 Calinou yes
10:12 Zeno` can someone look at #1810? It's copy/paste (99.99%) from the original game.cpp and was even on my TODO list to add back before refactor_the_game (I guess I missed it :?)
10:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1810 -- Fix profiler values not being updated (F6) and not being logged by Zeno-
10:12 Zeno` Everything in Game::updateProfilers() is copy paste apart from line 2230
10:12 Zeno` (and being in a function of course)
10:13 kahrl RealBadAngel: works for me
10:13 kahrl what are your settings?
10:13 kahrl (I guess everything on :P)
10:14 Zeno` works for me as well, karhl
10:15 Zeno` I got it to break when I was mucking with shaders yesterday but since I was changing shaders I considered it my fault and didn't think much of it
10:15 kahrl in fact I made sure the entities work with and without shaders
10:17 Zeno` it's working for me now karhl
10:17 * Zeno` waits for RealBadAngel settings :D
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10:25 RealBadAngel kahrl, no settings, clean build
10:25 kahrl what do you mean by no settings?
10:26 kahrl just the stuff from defaultsettings.cpp?
10:26 kahrl I just erased my minetest.conf and it still worked for me
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10:30 kahrl I also can't see how could look like that (nothing that could change it from EMT_TRANSPARENT_ALPHA_CHANNEL_REF to EMT_SOLID) so I'm afraid I can't fix it without more info
10:31 kahrl how it*
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10:50 RealBadAngel kahrl, colors in background seems to be random
10:50 RealBadAngel also theres definitely filtering enabled
10:53 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/6cTmtkU.png
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11:31 kahrl RealBadAngel: I think the background color is just the transparent part rendered with alpha=255
11:31 kahrl like EMT_SOLID does
11:31 kahrl (and a bunch of other material types)
11:32 kahrl what game is that btw? does the problem happen with vanilla minetest_game?
11:33 paramat EWW what happened to my hand? https://cdn.mediacru.sh/abL0z7RtAoiR.png
11:34 paramat im bronzed and tanned
11:34 Zeno` who is EWW?
11:35 PenguinDad kahrl: That game looks like dreambuilder
11:35 paramat i dont mean eeeew
11:35 PenguinDad Zeno`: misspelling of eee​w :P
11:37 Zeno` ERR ok
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11:52 paramat Calinou, 7 looks too thin, from flying underground and matching to the old noise build, 5 too fat, how does 6 feel to you?
11:52 Calinou get a 0.3.3 build and see how they look
11:52 Calinou :)
11:52 Calinou (use the same seed to ensure: fixed_map_seed in minetest.conf)
11:53 paramat well im choosing 6, thats the best match to me. i do have an old code build
11:53 Calinou the answer is in the question
11:53 Calinou good job
12:07 Zeno` kahrl, #1644
12:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1644 -- Refactor main by Zeno-
12:12 Zeno` #1810 is also startup related (maybe)
12:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1810 -- Fix profiler values not being updated (F6) and not being logged by Zeno-
12:15 Zeno` It's not really, but there is nobody looking after client anymore
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12:20 paramat quick fixes for mgv5 (tested) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1818 bbs
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13:56 RealBadAngel kahrl, this is doesnt depend on game
13:56 Zeno` Can I be upgraded to have 1 core dev to agree to my changes instead of 2?
13:56 RealBadAngel the bug is here even in minimal
13:58 Zeno` seriously... getting 2 to agree takes months and by the time that happens things cannot be merged :(
13:58 Zeno` not without a lot of effort anyway
14:00 Zeno` Actually, ignore that
14:01 Zeno` Because some of my PRs are big and need at *least* 2 core devs
14:01 Zeno` but it'd be nice to be able to merge simple 1 line bug fixes
14:02 celeron55 is there opposition in having Zeno` as a core developer?
14:02 celeron55 i will wait until tomorrow for comments
14:02 celeron55 or at least for tonight
14:02 RealBadAngel i agree
14:05 Amaz I think Zeno` should be a core dev... I mean, he has done more than some core devs have recently...
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14:14 nore celeron55, I agree he should be core dev too
14:14 nore he's currently doing much more than me, since I have very little time
14:14 BlockMen im also fine with him being core dev
14:16 celeron55 every person has 24 hours each day; it's a matter of prioritization 8)
14:17 nore yep... but studies are quite important :)
14:19 Zeno` thank you BlockMen, nore and RealBadAngel for the support
14:43 Megaf +1 for Zeno` as core dev
14:45 GhostDoge I aggree that Zeno` should be a core dev
14:46 Megaf Ok, the community supports the idea of Zeno` as a core dev
14:46 Megaf :D
14:47 Amaz :D
14:48 PenguinDad D:
15:10 sfan5 celeron55: I agree that Zeno` should be a core dev
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15:28 paramat mtgame devs, this is now fixed, tested, rebased and squashed https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/339 'Default and flowers: only run on-generated functions in mgv6. Remove indev code'
15:31 paramat ^ nore sfan5
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16:23 RealBadAngel kahrl, trying to find the reson for the bug, but still no luck
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16:47 RealBadAngel hi hmmmm, read logs
16:47 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, your vote about adding Zeno?
16:48 PilzAdam I like that he refactors old code
16:48 PilzAdam Zeno`, what are your views on the future of Minetest?
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17:43 RealBadAngel while lookin for the bug i made something neat
17:45 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/DZhJsMt.png
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18:13 RealBadAngel kahrl, http://i.imgur.com/VK2588Y.png
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19:00 VanessaE I'll toss in my 2 cents for Zeno` as a core dev.
19:10 Calinou and remove BlockMen in the process
19:12 Krock ^ why?
19:13 Calinou you know it already
19:14 Krock ah that one. such things can happen
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19:41 Calinou Krock, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/com​mit/929559fe8554473f0d7571fedc15251b5c4afda7
19:42 Krock Calinou, I see. BM could discuss first and then revert. he wasn't better than SN
19:44 VanessaE um...fire should not block sunlight.  that's stupid.  if you want the grass to look "burnt" then produce burnt grass under it.
19:51 Calinou meshnodes in hand use filtered textures, always, why
19:52 VanessaE I'm....pretty sure it's nothing I did in my models :)
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20:10 RealBadAngel Calinou, theres a bug in kahrl
20:10 RealBadAngel shit
20:10 RealBadAngel i mean in kahrl's code :)
20:11 RealBadAngel im redoing now the code responsible, got some side effects already
20:12 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=​-KdVEg8Ziso&amp;feature=youtu.be
20:12 Krock Haha a bug in kahrl
20:12 PenguinDad RealBadAngel: do you know how to code dna? :P
20:13 Krock RealBadAngel, it eats FPS
20:13 nore RBA: what happens if you drop leaves? do they wave? :)
20:20 RealBadAngel nore that would be stupid
20:32 cg72 hey guys why cant leaves drop like snowballs???? then you collect them and its a block again! ;)
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20:49 Sokomine cg72: they could. some games let leaves drop that way. i don't think it's a good idea as it leads to too many items lying around. something which mt can't handle that well
20:52 Calinou here you walk through leaves too
20:55 cg72 on minetime you walk through them but i have it set with viscosity so you move slowly
20:56 Calinou I could do that, for slight slowdown
20:56 Calinou cg72, can you show me the code?
21:00 cg72 i tkink its on my github but it could be on one of 6 computers here hold on ill ssh in to them to find it
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21:29 cg72 Calinou: http://codepad.org/rhtGZxaS
21:29 cg72 its a bit odd when your inside it lol but it is a start i never perfected it yet
21:29 cg72 http://codepad.org/rhtGZxaS
21:30 cg72 oh and the groups are set to the leaf group from minimal so that needs to be changed to normal default
21:32 Calinou can you swim up them though?
21:33 Calinou anyway, this is inefficient, you're making a leaves liquid :(
21:33 Calinou we need a way to define viscosity regardless of node type
21:37 cg72 yes i know but i dont have the ability to sode that as im not even sure where it is in the enggine
21:37 cg72 but hey its a fun feature lol
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23:47 paramat hmmmm, please could you review and/or merge my pull request? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1818

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