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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-10-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 VanessaE (because he didn't squash his two commits ;) )
00:00 VanessaE actually it looks fine to me
00:03 paramat ShadowNinja, 0.4.3 used mgv6, i believe only 0.3 used mgv5
00:03 VanessaE wasn't there a brief period very early in 0.4.x where mgv5 still worked?
00:07 ShadowNinja paramat: I think 0.4.3 used v5, unless there were two mapgens named "Mapgen v6".
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00:15 hmmmm paramat, sorry for that, i know the noise API isn't very user friendly
00:15 paramat Vanessa perhaps, i arrived here during 0.4.3 and only mgv6 was selectable
00:15 paramat no problem
00:16 hmmmm the idea was to avoid multiplications and additions if they weren't needed
00:17 paramat there is also 'ground level at point' to do, which i will try to code, although stuff seems to work without it
00:17 hmmmm but i never actually profiled to see if it was faster or not, and I think it might actually be slower than if i were to multiply and add inside the same loop
00:17 hmmmm if the buffer is too big
00:18 paramat ah i wondered why offset and scale were done separately
00:19 paramat i've only added trandform noisemaps to 4 of 8 noises, because the others don't need noise scaled so this might help with speed
00:19 paramat my branch seems popular on the forums, perhaps we can get mgv5 into 0.4.11? =}
00:22 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Do you know what Mapgen 0.4.3 used?
00:23 hmmmm the mapgen in 0.4.3 was mapgen v6 as we know it today
00:23 hmmmm except with forests disabled
00:24 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Are you sure?
00:24 hmmmm yes..
00:25 ShadowNinja Hmmm, I thought the mapgen had changed since then.
00:29 hmmmm the mapgen stopped changing sometime early in the 0.4.2-dev versions
00:29 hmmmm deserts were the last addition
00:29 hmmmm after that, celeron stopped working on the mapgen and I sort of took over, and I made the decision that from now on no more mapgen incompatibilities between versions
00:50 paramat mgv5 3d noise processing seems to be 'sample and interpolate', and is even used for underground blob shape and blob 'wetness', no wonder mgv5 was slow. it looks good to me with uneased noise, spikier and more aggressive, possibly higher terrain and more floatlands
00:51 hmmmm :(
00:51 hmmmm sorry I haven't been pulling my share
00:51 hmmmm i've really gotta work on noise right away
00:58 paramat mgv5 should have stayed as a slower option, perhaps with non-eased noise. perhaps it was removed because it made mgv6 look boring hehe. hmmmmm you have good excuse, i know what full time work is like
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01:14 paramat hmmmmm at github someone assigned you to fix mgv6 terrain discontinuity at y = 47, i'll try to fix that myself. i also have an idea for lighting: spread the columns of light_max as narrow cones so that shadows taper, instad of attempting shadow decay
01:15 Zeno` paramat, weird you should mention lighting I was just talking about it to somebody else
01:16 paramat zeno you are awesome, thanks for spotting my bug!
01:17 Zeno` And wondering how transitioning lighting to the GPU was going. I realised that lighting server-side could probably be limited to software *only* for ABMs/nodes that required a light calculation rather than all nodes
01:17 Zeno` paramat, no problem. I want mgv5 as much as many others :D
01:19 paramat yes RBA has plans for a hybrid lighting system
01:19 Zeno` paramat, so it's fixed?
01:19 Zeno` Yeah I think RBA was going to leave the entire lighting server-side "as is", but it's not necessary. I'll catch up with him :)
01:20 paramat yes mgv5 is working correctly with new noise code
01:20 Zeno` nice!
01:20 Zeno` I'll try it out later today
01:22 paramat all that's left is for someone to point out the things i've missed, so not long before i make a pull request, i'll try to get it into 0.4.11
01:24 Zeno` what happens if you haven't missed anything?
01:26 paramat lol
01:30 paramat hmmmm, can i add a spflag to mgv5 that skips 'calculate biomes' and 'generate biomes', for players who want to use an alternative biome-adding mod? (currently the spflags are 'foo' and 'bar')
01:31 hmmmm hmm
01:31 hmmmm I think that would be better off as a global mapgen flag
01:34 paramat yes i agree
01:35 ShadowNinja paramat: v5 has default biomes?  If so, I think that can be simply dropped in favor of the biome API.
01:36 paramat the mgv5 biomes were dropped in order to use the biome API
01:36 paramat ah i should define some biomes for it
01:37 paramat that's why i want pine tree nodes in mtgame, so we can have snow biomes in mgv5 and mgv7
01:43 paramat https://cdn.mediacru.sh/GKXlQecTNTkn.png mgv5 with mgv6-type biomes defined
01:45 Zeno` sand castle!
01:48 paramat biome API surface material is discontinuous at y = 47, i will try to fix this
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01:57 paramat hmmmm perhaps sometime you could post here what you feel is wrong with biomes
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03:47 OldCoder Is it true that 0.5 will be incompatible with existing worlds?
03:47 OldCoder If so, will there be a conversion utility?
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04:10 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl​ob/master/src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L134 <--- does anybody have an idea what 'm_ext_ptr' might be used for?
04:11 hmmmm somebody just added that
04:24 Zeno` just recently?
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04:56 Zeno` hmmmm, somebody added it just recently?
05:12 hmmmm hmm i guess not, looking at the git blame
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05:43 OldCoder Zeno`, Sapier has proposed an alternate patch for the issue and will credit you and I
06:02 Zeno` OldCoder, ok
06:14 Zeno` I have a problem with my refactoring of the_game(). When the game is closed via the window manager's close button AND a formspec, then I get a segfault when I delete camera. Interestingly, using upstream HEAD, I don't get a segfault (it's really an assert failure) but using valgrind there there is invalid read of size 8 and invalid write of size 8 at the exact same location  (guiFormSpecMenu.cpp lines 135 and 136)
06:14 Zeno` AND and formspec is showing*
06:15 Zeno` Seems to me, refactor or not, there is something odd going on
06:15 Zeno` double free I expect (somehow)
06:19 Zeno` Sorry OldCoder, that's great news :) Shortish answer earlier was because I didn't want to break my concen(frust)ration
06:19 OldCoder Zeno`, that is fine
06:19 OldCoder BTW will 0.5 break old worlds?
06:19 Zeno` I have no idea
06:19 OldCoder kkty
06:20 OldCoder Zeno`, I must say thank you again for your willingness to look at the network issue
06:20 OldCoder Your efforts will lead to a better experience for all
06:20 Zeno` OldCoder, yw
06:28 Zeno` So in master that assert is only passing based on invalid valid
06:28 Zeno` values*
06:29 Zeno` I can't even work out what it's for (m_ext_ptr)
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07:38 Zeno` I'll open an issue because I don't know if the obvious solution (get rid of the assert -- m_ext_ptr is not actually used anywhere else) would simply hide a bug
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09:17 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1707  needs to be seriously discussed if possible
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09:25 Zeno` it is discussed here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1661
09:25 Zeno` actually it's not discussed there
09:25 Zeno` I can't find the discussion
09:26 Zeno` anyway, #1707 implements the exact behaviour that ShadowNinja wanted in the discussion
09:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1707 -- Right mouse button behaviour for craft/inventory by Zeno-
09:26 Zeno` oh... that's the issue :-o
09:27 Zeno` not it's not; it's the PR ;/
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14:05 ninnghazad heho, i'd like to get https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1737 merged, kaeza seemed ok with the commits - what else do i need to do in order to get it finished? as nothing was happening for a while i guess i am still missing some requirement i did not know of or something.
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14:23 kahrl Zeno`: if you just remove m_ext_ptr then current_formspec will become a dangling pointer in the_game
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14:28 kahrl Zeno`: try https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/​3b0e415c4cd8b2ed6641a1da9223765a7efdbe9b
14:31 Zeno` It's already dangling though
14:31 Zeno` Otherwise how/why is it delete'd twice?
14:32 kahrl it isn't
14:33 kahrl the ext_ptr stuff is just to set the pointer to NULL, it doesn't delete it first
14:33 Zeno` are you referring to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1765 ?
14:33 kahrl yes
14:34 Zeno` hmm.. ok.. what the point of m_ext_ptr again then? :(
14:34 kahrl setting the current_formspec pointer to NULL
14:36 Zeno` can it be fixed without modifying game.cpp?
14:36 kahrl probably not
14:37 kahrl it's happening because of the deletion order when exiting the client, which is defined by game.cpp
14:37 Zeno` yeah, it's happening (worse) in my refactor of the_game(); i.e. the assert fails
14:38 Zeno` regardless of delete order
14:38 Zeno` only way I can stop it happening it to remove delete camera
14:38 Zeno` is*
14:38 kahrl heh
14:38 kahrl sounds related... not
14:39 kahrl but makes sense considering it accesses invalid memory
14:40 Zeno` hmm
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15:00 kahrl Zeno`: updated commit: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/​0ddf37e9adb58b28f21632391a08683d6938142b
15:01 kahrl (only difference is that the formspec menu is dropped, not deleted in GUIEngine)
15:02 Zeno` hmm ok if that works can it be a PR (or, better, merge) to fix my issue?
15:03 kahrl sure, if that won't cause trouble for you rebasing the the_game refactoring
15:03 Zeno` nah, I can merge that in easily. I'd rather see it fixed in general first
15:04 Zeno` I mean it's not causing problems in HEAD atm, but it could theoretically
15:04 kahrl https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1766
15:04 Zeno` ok cool :)
15:04 Zeno` thanks for working that out; I was stumped
15:05 kahrl np
15:06 Zeno` ah ok counting
15:06 Zeno` that makes more sense
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15:07 kahrl it was even built in before (even GUI element is a IReferenceCounted in irrlicht)
15:07 PenguinDad Zeno`: actually it seems to cause problems for some people #1450
15:07 kahrl just not used properly ;)
15:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1450 -- Error at closing GUI: guiFormSpecMenu.cpp:131
15:08 kahrl s/even/every
15:08 Zeno` PenguinDad, perhaps more than one bird has been killed with the one stone then
15:08 kahrl woo, I fixed an obscure bug!
15:08 kahrl (hopefully)
15:08 Zeno` hey, kahrl, I found it!
15:08 kahrl ok ok :)
15:09 Zeno` but, yes, you fixed
15:09 Zeno` fingers crossed
15:09 PenguinDad an unconfirmed obscure bug bug
15:12 OldCoder hug a bug until it you can tug
15:16 Zeno` bugs!
15:16 Zeno` rub a dub bug
15:19 * Zeno` goes back to watching ALF episodes
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17:05 Krock hmm sometimes, the water turns un-transparent for a second and then again back to transparent. know bug?
17:32 ShadowNinja Krock: Yes, al teast to me.
17:32 ShadowNinja least*
17:32 Krock ShadowNinja, okay. Should I open an issue?
17:33 ShadowNinja kahrl: Go ahead and merge your change if you're reasonably confident it works and it's non-contriversal. We don't need any more pull requests.
17:33 ShadowNinja Krock: Sure, if there isn't already one.
17:34 ShadowNinja non-transparent -> opaque though.
17:34 Krock oke
17:35 Krock ShadowNinja, confirmed now. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1404
17:35 Krock exists also with irrlicht 1.8.1
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17:40 Krock thanks, ShadowNinja.
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17:45 ShadowNinja NP.
17:52 ShadowNinja Minetest's SQLite database could probably be obtimized a lot with a sane schema like http://sprunge.us/KAAX?sql
17:52 ShadowNinja Only way to know is to try though.
17:57 Krock and node meta is in.... ?
17:58 Calinou sqlite_synchronous 0
17:58 Calinou is there any extended testing of this?
17:59 Calinou or value 1 instead of 2 (default)
17:59 ShadowNinja Krock: data.  See doc/mapformat.txt for details.
17:59 Krock oke
17:59 ShadowNinja Calinou: No, but it increases the cachne of corruption.
18:00 ShadowNinja Calinou: SQLite could find blocks faster if it had the position coordinates seperately and indexed them I think.
18:00 Krock it's a good idea to use x,y and z as variables instead of calculating them with a single number
18:00 Krock 'id' is not needed IMO
18:01 ShadowNinja Krock: SQLite adds it automatically if you don't.
18:01 Krock oh.
18:03 Krock well, I would support this idea but compatibility must be kept
18:12 Krock but.. this would mean infinite worlds.
18:12 Krock right?
18:12 Krock ^ belongs to ShadowNinja
18:14 ShadowNinja Krock: It would remove the 12-bit block position restriction from the (SQLite3) database, but the rest of Minetest would still be limited, so it wouldn't change the world size on it's own.
18:15 Krock oh okay. I'm not sure if SQLite3 can find a mapblock faster with xyz instead or just one index
18:19 ShadowNinja Neither do I.  If the index was continuous it would probably be fastest as it is now, but it's discontinuous and seems to be unsorted.
18:34 rubenwardy ShadowBot, 'is_modified' bool not null
18:37 Krock rubenwardy, wrong shadow :P
18:37 rubenwardy yeah
18:38 rubenwardy ShadowNinja
18:39 ShadowNinja rubenwardy: That would be a new feature though.
18:39 ShadowNinja Probably belongs in the block flags.
18:40 ShadowNinja Although it would be a lot more efficient to remove as a seperate field.
18:40 ShadowNinja Those blocks could be set to never save though.
18:42 Krock ^
18:44 Krock when 1st node is placed in the block, it should be marked to save
18:44 Krock or when more than X nodes have been dug
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