Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-09-10

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:47 proller joined #minetest-dev
01:26 AnotherBrick joined #minetest-dev
01:48 troller joined #minetest-dev
02:06 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
03:43 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
04:44 CraigyDavi` joined #minetest-dev
04:59 blaise joined #minetest-dev
05:47 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
05:54 ^8 joined #minetest-dev
06:04 sol_invictus joined #minetest-dev
06:46 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
06:57 kahrl joined #minetest-dev
07:49 sol_invictus joined #minetest-dev
07:55 sol_invictus joined #minetest-dev
09:24 Weedy joined #minetest-dev
09:24 Weedy joined #minetest-dev
09:27 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
09:27 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
09:41 proller joined #minetest-dev
10:05 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1617
10:05 RealBadAngel ^^ node highlighting for testing
10:05 mberends joined #minetest-dev
10:06 RealBadAngel use config to enable/disable selectionboxes and highlighting
10:06 RealBadAngel it affects only nodes
10:07 RealBadAngel speed of the effect is 3.0 by default
10:25 Zeno` I'll test this shortly. I like the idea :)
10:33 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
10:46 proller joined #minetest-dev
11:01 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
11:10 Kekun joined #minetest-dev
11:10 Kekun hi
11:12 Kekun I am developper and I'm new to minetest, I may want (with two friend dev) to help to its development
11:13 Kekun I am still trying to get how minetest is organised as a community and as a software, and I wanted to take the temperature of the project dircetly from IRC, so here I am =)
11:14 Kekun as far as I understand, minetest is a game engine written in C++, and games can be built around it using its Lua API?
11:19 mberends yes, see http://dev.minetest.net
11:19 sol_invictus joined #minetest-dev
11:44 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
12:49 diemartin joined #minetest-dev
13:36 NakedFury joined #minetest-dev
14:04 PenguinDad joined #minetest-dev
14:07 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
14:10 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
14:15 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
14:18 JZTech101 joined #minetest-dev
14:19 mberends_ joined #minetest-dev
14:43 deltib joined #minetest-dev
14:48 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
15:00 luizrpgluiz joined #minetest-dev
15:01 luizrpgluiz left #minetest-dev
16:02 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
16:03 mberends_ joined #minetest-dev
16:10 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
16:28 zat joined #minetest-dev
16:34 mberends joined #minetest-dev
16:52 VanessaE hmmmm: with minecraft/mojang being bought out by Microsoft, seems the call for larger worlds in Minetest, so as to handle Minecraft refugees ;-) has been renewed.
16:53 VanessaE nore had a good start on making that a reality.  perhaps his code needs to be revisted.
16:53 VanessaE revisited*
16:53 Krock joined #minetest-dev
16:54 hmmmm larger worlds are not happening.  worlds are large enough.
16:54 Calinou not really
16:54 hmmmm yes really.
16:54 Calinou we should eventually find a way to make them larger
16:54 Calinou you're basically saying “IPv4 has enough addresses” but in Minetest :P
16:54 hmmmm there's a really obvious way to make them larger.  there's just no reason to and tons of rework required along with disadvantages
16:55 hmmmm IPv4 does have enough addresses
16:55 VanessaE define "really obvious"
16:55 hmmmm VanessaE:  change over to v3s32.
16:55 VanessaE oh.
16:55 Calinou <hmmmm> IPv4 does have enough addresses
16:55 VanessaE well I assumed something like that
16:55 Calinou not without NAT
16:55 Calinou not with the explosion of mobile stuff
16:55 Calinou NAT is a plague, should just die
16:55 hmmmm Calinou:  right, and with NAT things are pretty okay
16:55 VanessaE but that will break things like node hash position I guess
16:55 Calinou no, because people need to forward ports in a silly way
16:55 hmmmm VanessaE:  LOTS of shit is going to be broken and not backwards compatible
16:55 Calinou you can't host a service on the same port on more than 1 machine on the same network, too
16:56 hmmmm like I said... there's no reason to make worlds larger than they are.
16:56 hmmmm it's only a perceived limitation.
16:56 Calinou sustainability is a reason
16:56 VanessaE hmmmm: it needs to happen.
16:56 Calinou some people want to keep their worlds for years
16:56 hmmmm this can last years
16:56 VanessaE we're about to get flooded with Minecraft refugees
16:56 VanessaE and they will want this
16:56 hmmmm so?
16:56 VanessaE we should be prepated to handle it.
16:56 Calinou large servers may eventually get their world filled
16:56 Calinou their only solutions are resetting the world, which will anger many users
16:56 hmmmm you're acting like this is just some kind of simple change
16:57 hmmmm no.  it will break ALL reverse compatibility.
16:57 VanessaE I am aware that it is not a simple change
16:57 hmmmm and it will make data structures much larger, it will make things slower
16:57 hmmmm basically, nasty.
16:58 Calinou <VanessaE> we're about to get flooded with Minecraft refugees
16:58 Calinou let BlockMen handle it ;)
16:58 VanessaE haha
16:58 VanessaE from a game standpoint, sure
16:58 Calinou try not to turn Minetest into Minecraft either, it needs to keep its own philosophy and folklore
16:58 Calinou but larger worlds won't do that
16:58 Calinou (if they say there's not enough horizontal space: answer by saying there's too much vertical space :D)
16:59 hmmmm the best I'll do is add 8 bits onto the X and Z components.
16:59 VanessaE hmmmm: that's perfectly fine
16:59 Ynigvi joined #minetest-dev
16:59 john_minetest joined #minetest-dev
16:59 VanessaE if used properly that gives us a HELL of a lot more space
16:59 Calinou why not Y either? (out of curiosity… because you won't end up with a perfect cube space)
16:59 Calinou not a real problem, but just wondering
16:59 hmmmm Calinou, because it's completley unnecessary and would necessitate the data structures used to double in size.
16:59 Calinou OK
16:59 john_minetest How much of the aviaible space do you actually use?
16:59 VanessaE Calinou: meh, who needs thounsands of km or vertical?
17:00 hmmmm john_minetest:  practically none.  :P
17:00 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
17:00 Calinou VanessaE, no one, really :P
17:00 hmmmm these are just irrational folk
17:00 john_minetest 1 km down, one up should be enough. Maybe 2, just to be cooler than minecraft ;)
17:00 Calinou not really
17:01 Calinou the current size we have is good for having several dimensions, really deep mines, really high buildings that can't be seen from ground, etc
17:01 hmmmm I won't advocate taking away Y space but it's perfectly doable
17:01 hmmmm we can donate those to the X and Z components
17:01 Calinou this may break worlds
17:01 john_minetest Most high buildings look crappy.
17:01 diemartin joined #minetest-dev
17:01 VanessaE we have WAY too much Y space but I see no reason to cut it down.
17:01 john_minetest Yeah,
17:01 VanessaE (doing so would accomplish nothing)
17:01 hmmmm if we were to cut Y space, it'd have to be in groups of 2 bits
17:02 john_minetest Y space is used for nyanworld and stuff.
17:02 john_minetest And nether.
17:02 hmmmm so just trimming it by one notch would make it 14 bits
17:02 Calinou eg. if you change from 32768 to 16384, you'll cut the bottom and top parts of the world
17:02 sfan5 that actually sounds like a doable idea
17:02 hmmmm which would reduce the max height to 8192
17:02 hmmmm and the max depth would be -8191
17:02 john_minetest reasonable
17:02 hmmmm err, 8191, -8192
17:02 Calinou what about X/Z?
17:02 hmmmm and then we'd be able to double the max size of X and Z
17:02 Calinou ah
17:02 hmmmm 1.6 million in each direction
17:02 sfan5 I think -16384 would be better
17:02 VanessaE that's perfectly fine on a new world.
17:03 Calinou 15 bits is not possible, hmmmm said
17:03 sfan5 for y cutting
17:03 sfan5 no?
17:03 john_minetest Old worlds have to be converted somehow.
17:03 Krock interesting idea to moving bits around to get more X, Z space... but that's not needed.
17:03 hmmmm basically it's not worth it
17:03 sfan5 hm, right
17:03 hmmmm Y will stay the same
17:03 hmmmm again
17:03 Calinou what about writing a converter of some sort?
17:03 VanessaE john_minetest: "compress out" all the intervening air or stone_with_* :)
17:03 hmmmm this is only if we are actually expanding minetest
17:04 hmmmm this is how we would do it
17:04 VanessaE hmmmm: then it needs done.
17:04 hmmmm it doesn't need to be done by any means.
17:04 john_minetest What's about the map size? Will a higher bit count let the map files grow too much?
17:04 hmmmm it's just some false perception.
17:04 Krock Y U no happy with 2 bytes for each dimension?
17:04 VanessaE I don't need it myself, I'm thinking of the future.
17:04 sfan5 adding just 1 bit would double the size of each coord. component
17:05 hmmmm it's an incentive to build even less efficiently
17:05 hmmmm do you realize how many hours you'd have to run in a single direction from the origin in order to get to the other side of the world?
17:05 Krock bytes are easier to handle than bits. better let it how it is
17:06 VanessaE hmmmm: not everyone walks/runs to get around the map
17:06 VanessaE are you aware of the sheer number of "how do I teleport" requests I get?
17:06 hmmmm yeah, they're teleporting around.
17:06 hmmmm that is the ONLY, I repeat, the ONLY reason why they say there's not enough
17:06 hmmmm if you removed teleporting you'd get no more complaints, I guarantee it
17:07 VanessaE I don't allow teleports on my servers - if people want they, they can use travelnet booths
17:07 VanessaE but guess what, people have managed to expand outward pretty quickly even without teleport
17:07 Calinou <hmmmm> do you realize how many hours you'd have to run in a single direction from the origin in order to get to the other side of the world?
17:07 Calinou suddenly, fast move ;)
17:07 Calinou despite it being unrealistic, people use it out of boredom, but also because default walking speed is too slow
17:08 john_minetest We should maybe focus on minecarts a bit. They are a bit slower than fast maybe, but they are a great mean of transport and they would allow cities to grow where no teleport is wanted.
17:08 hmmmm walking speed is too slow, blocks are too small as well
17:08 VanessaE don't go changing the apparent block size
17:08 Krock ehm. blocks could be smaller in my view
17:08 VanessaE they're big enough as it is
17:08 hmmmm they could be variable
17:09 john_minetest use nodeboxes for variable block sizes.
17:09 hmmmm or it could be an option.
17:09 john_minetest Or change player camera and fov.
17:09 hmmmm "node_scaling"
17:09 hmmmm or something in the config file
17:09 hmmmm boom
17:09 VanessaE hmmmm: visual_scale
17:09 Krock ^ milestone 0.4.12
17:09 hmmmm there ya go
17:09 john_minetest Is it really a needed feature?
17:09 VanessaE if a node needs to be resized, it should use that field.
17:09 VanessaE and we honestly just don't need that right now
17:10 john_minetest I like the block size as it is.
17:10 john_minetest There are things that are much more important.
17:10 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
17:11 hmmmm there are so many things that need work on minetest
17:11 hmmmm but nobody has the time
17:11 hmmmm getting minetest to where it should be is a full time job in itself
17:11 VanessaE hmmmm: I think a significant part of it is apathy (not you)
17:12 john_minetest Minetest crashes a lot lately.
17:12 Ynigvi left #minetest-dev
17:12 Krock john_minetest, I disagree.
17:12 Krock it was even worse
17:13 john_minetest On windows, it crashed all the time when I was on windows.
17:13 john_minetest But I am on Linux. It never crashed for me but now every 3rd start and every 6th connect ends in a segfault or other crash.
17:13 Krock Can happen on the best OS if the drivers don't work how they should
17:14 sfan5 john_minetest: thats some problem with irrlicht
17:14 john_minetest http://pastie.org/pastes/9542622/text
17:15 sfan5 thats new
17:16 john_minetest Also every time on building, minetest warns me "lua/build/liblua.a(loslib.o): In function `os_tmpname': loslib.c:(.text+0x28c): warning: the use of `tmpnam' is dangerous, better use `mkstemp' "
17:16 Calinou john_minetest, Carbone has carts + boats + hovers, that's at least 3 kinds of vehicles :P
17:16 sfan5 ignore the warning
17:16 john_minetest Just wanted to mention it.
17:17 sfan5 why are you not using luajit?
17:17 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
17:18 Ritchie joined #minetest-dev
17:18 john_minetest It always worked for me without it.
17:18 VanessaE it works better with.
17:18 VanessaE luajit speeds things up greatly.
17:18 VanessaE 3-100x is the current claim.  look to the lower end of that range for realistic figures.
17:19 john_minetest How I find out how to enable luajit:     find . | grep CMakeLists | xargs cat | grep JIT
17:19 sfan5 you don't
17:20 sfan5 you just install it
17:20 VanessaE just install luajit and its dev package and recompile
17:21 john_minetest Oh, seems I didn't have it installed
17:26 khonkhortisan joined #minetest-dev
17:26 proller joined #minetest-dev
17:36 diemartin joined #minetest-dev
17:54 deltib joined #minetest-dev
18:13 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
18:17 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
18:43 casimir joined #minetest-dev
18:55 kahrl Adding anything less than 16 bits to a position component would mean a couple additional bitops on each position component read/write
18:55 kahrl Much slower than simply adding 16 bits
19:00 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
19:08 ^v joined #minetest-dev
19:14 hmmmm kahrl, bitops are pretty fast, and I'm not sure what the impact of having an extra and/shift instruction is going to be vs. the size increase per vector
19:16 kahrl yeah, it depends on the size of the cache I guess
19:17 GhostDoge joined #minetest-dev
19:59 zat joined #minetest-dev
20:23 Taoki[laptop] joined #minetest-dev
20:25 Kekun left #minetest-dev
20:27 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-dev
20:38 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
20:53 diemartin joined #minetest-dev
20:59 CraigyDavi joined #minetest-dev
21:00 ^v joined #minetest-dev
21:14 domtron joined #minetest-dev
21:14 domtron left #minetest-dev
21:33 proller joined #minetest-dev
21:34 john_minetest left #minetest-dev
21:50 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
22:52 proller joined #minetest-dev
23:15 not^v joined #minetest-dev
23:24 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1617/
23:24 RealBadAngel hmmmm, kahrl, ShadowNinja, celeron55 can you test it?
23:50 ShadowNinja Tested, it's harder to see during the day, and at night it's too bright.
23:50 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-dev
23:51 ShadowNinja speed = 100 helps :-P
23:51 VanessaE haha
23:51 RealBadAngel thats why speed is a variable
23:52 RealBadAngel most of folks wanted it slower
23:52 RealBadAngel but some wants it flashing like crazy
23:52 RealBadAngel do what you want with the setting
23:52 RealBadAngel 3.0 is fine for default
23:54 VanessaE RealBadAngel: maybe it would be a good idea to allow the user to set the brightness limits?
23:54 RealBadAngel yes, and let them choose between sin and cos
23:54 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: I think it should do something like `light += highlight_brightness` instead of `light = highlight_brightness` so that it's darker at night.
23:55 RealBadAngel no it cannot be done that way
23:55 ShadowNinja :-|
23:55 RealBadAngel light is not constant
23:56 RealBadAngel and we do disable the lighting for the node to get our effect
23:56 RealBadAngel and its not brightness at all
23:57 RealBadAngel its ambience light

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext