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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-09-01

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Time Nick Message
00:05 VanessaE greetz, RBA
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04:18 cg72 ok if im checking a node to see whats under it and the chunk under its not loaded what will the check return????
04:21 VanessaE "ignore"
04:21 VanessaE that is, the node name will be "ignore" if you do e.g. minetest.get_node() on an unloaded block
04:24 cg72 ok cuz my treedecay is ok till they get taller lol
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15:07 celeron55 some recent optimization stuff in MCPE, if someone is interested: https://tomcc.github.io/20​14/08/31/visibility-1.html https://tomcc.github.io/20​14/08/31/visibility-2.html
15:08 * sfan5 saw that blog post but didn't read it yet
15:08 VanessaE THOSE are minecraft's caves?
15:21 VanessaE hm, breadth-first search eh
15:21 VanessaE didn't I suggest something like this a while back? :)
15:21 sfan5 sounds interesting
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15:21 sfan5 but I dunno about 3D graphics stuff
15:22 VanessaE specifically to address the stuttering problem with the view range tuner, that is
15:22 sfan5 don't we have a wireframe mode in mt?
15:22 VanessaE start at the player, start rendering stuff close by, keep adding stuff that's further out until you run out of time at the current fps
15:22 sfan5 hmm
15:22 sfan5 no
15:22 VanessaE sfan5: I think so but how to turn it on, no idea.
15:23 sfan5 I made minetest use wireframes
15:23 sfan5 but as always I stored the code in /tmp
15:23 sfan5 because it was.. well.. temporary
15:23 VanessaE couldn't hurt to add that code back into mainline, might be useful for testing in the future.
15:24 VanessaE (if you can recreate it I mean)
15:24 sfan5 I probably can
15:24 sfan5 >setMaterialFlag(video::EMF_WIREFRAME,t
15:24 sfan5 there it is
15:25 VanessaE attach it to F9 or some such
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15:28 kahrl I don't think we should add an X-ray to the standard client
15:28 twoelk could that wireframe view be tweaked to also study cave-gereating in air or maybe disblay chunk borders to detect border issues?
15:29 twoelk maybe add to minimal?
15:29 VanessaE kahrl: wireframe just showing what the user normally sees?
15:29 VanessaE (+ caves, e.g. similar to that screenshot)
15:30 VanessaE it's not like the user's gonna be able to see where all the mese is.
15:31 kahrl VanessaE: yeah it's not useful for finding ores in stone, but as you can see on the screenshot in that article you can see abandoned mineshafts and big lava-level caves
15:31 kahrl which are often very profitable
15:31 VanessaE hm. good point
15:31 VanessaE I guess that's what all the orange is?
15:31 kahrl yep
15:31 VanessaE didn't think about that - I've never played Minecraft.
15:32 sfan5 gur.com/q1ZUsLs.png
15:32 sfan5 fail
15:32 sfan5 http://i.imgur.com/q1ZUsLs.png
15:32 VanessaE \o/
15:32 sfan5 upon entering the ground all the caves get rendered
15:32 VanessaE that was easy
15:32 sfan5 that could be improved
15:34 twoelk only node sides as viewed with noclip in that pic?
15:35 VanessaE shows how much gets drawn that shouldn't be huh.
15:35 VanessaE sfan5: what's that little bit of something just above and left of the target?
15:35 VanessaE (four very short lines)
15:36 sfan5 VanessaE: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
15:36 sfan5 probably desert grass that has changed it's rotation because wave shaders
15:37 VanessaE ah
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16:48 hmmmm hrmmm
16:48 hmmmm i wonder if there will ever be a situation where we'll use VoxelManipulators on the client side
16:49 VanessaE finding surfaces for mobs to spawn on maybe?
16:49 hmmmm i don't want mobs to ever spawn on the client
16:49 VanessaE that and realtime sound effects are the only two things I can think of that client-side modding would really be appropriate for at this point
16:50 VanessaE well to *walk* on then.
16:50 VanessaE otherwise, no
16:50 VanessaE I don't see a reason for it
16:50 hmmmm hmmm
16:50 hmmmm no we don't need that
16:50 hmmmm we have lua pathfinding
16:51 VanessaE right
16:51 VanessaE so yeah, I would just not bother considering that possibility for now.  there's no logical reason to use an lvm on the client
16:51 hmmmm good
16:52 VanessaE I could see an argument for distributed computing using clients - that's how MC is able to handle so many at once, I'm told - but that's WAY out of scope here.
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17:10 VanessaE kahrl: *poke*
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17:18 hmmmm I feel as if removeNode* functions are just a gigantic duplication of effort
17:18 hmmmm you could easily trim those to remove a couple hundred LoC easily
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17:43 kahrl VanessaE: peek?
17:44 ShadowNinja sfan5: The wireframe view definitely seems usefull.  Maybe bind it to a key and surround it with #ifndef NDEBUG?
17:46 VanessaE kahrl: just reminding you about that no-extrude patch.  it still works.  Would be nice to see it merged as an option in the settings menu.
17:46 Krock Bug: Direct3d8 isn't showing up in the settings tab - do I need to create an issue or does someone have free time to fix it?
17:47 sfan5 ShadowNinja: maybe
17:49 ShadowNinja Krock: Is your build compiled with Direct3D8 support?
17:49 kahrl VanessaE: I'd prefer to fix the extrusion routine, but I don't really have good ideas for that, so I guess the setting is fine
17:50 Krock ShadowNinja, yup. I replaced Irrlicht.dll with my new build
17:50 Krock ShadowNinja, and minetest works with it
17:51 ShadowNinja Krock: driver=direct3d8 works, but it isn't in the settings menu?
17:51 sfan5 ShadowNinja: why would you want to use d3d8?
17:51 ShadowNinja sfan5: Ask Krock.
17:52 Krock ShadowNinja, exactly. I possibly found the bug. In the title, it says "Direct3D 8.1"
17:52 Krock but the driver is set with direct3d8
17:52 ShadowNinja Krock: Odd, you should ask sapier about that.
17:53 Krock ShadowNinja, or I'll look into the codes first. I'll tall him about this if I can't find it
17:53 sfan5 Krock: are you complaining about the ".1"?
17:53 Krock sfan5, I don't know if that's the reason for not having it in the settings menu
17:53 ShadowNinja Krock: If you're using a different build of Irlicht than you compiled with that might be the issue though.
17:53 sfan5 Krock: thats not the reason
17:54 Krock ShadowNinja, I compiled the non-direct3d8 and the one with on the same PC
17:57 hmmmm has this thing ever been seen with splizzard's mod?  http://pastebin.com/f0ZFd00p
17:57 hmmmm or did I make it do that :<
17:57 VanessaE not sure, hmmmm.
17:59 ShadowNinja Krock: Doesn't matter.  Use the same library for building and using and see if it works.
17:59 Krock ShadowNinja, I found the bug .
17:59 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/ma​ster/src/script/lua_api/l_mainmenu.cpp#L1008
17:59 Krock possibly.
18:00 Krock lua requests core.get_video_drivers() and doesn't get direct3d8
18:00 hmmmm vanessae, shouldn't Pine Needles be added to the leaves group?  they aren't decaying
18:00 hmmmm nevermind about that
18:00 VanessaE heh
18:01 VanessaE moretrees manages leaf decay on its own, yeah
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18:02 kahrl Krock: perhaps you've compiled minetest with the non-direct3d8 Irrlicht's headers
18:02 Krock kahrl, I can play with direct3d8...
18:02 ShadowNinja ^
18:02 Krock oh wait
18:03 Krock but yes, nvm, it doesn't matter because I can play it...
18:03 kahrl Krock: yeah, but isDriverSupported is in the header, not the DLL
18:03 ShadowNinja Krock: Minetest might not think it supports D3D8 because of the headers it was compiled with, but the function calls still work bacause the DLL that it uses actually does have support for it.
18:04 Krock kahrl, ShadowNinja: but well, there is still a way to detect if the driver is supported or not, without looking at headers
18:04 Krock because it throws an error when I use my older Irrlicht build
18:06 ShadowNinja Krock: But that's not the right way to do it.  That's trying it and seeing if it breaks instead of just checking if it will work beforehand.
18:07 kahrl if fact, doing that would be stupid because some drivers might crash minetest when they are created (see sapier and video_driver = software)
18:07 kahrl in fact*
18:09 * Krock points at https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1385
18:09 * Krock unpoints cuz he noticed how he failed
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18:24 hmmmm wtf
18:24 hmmmm land of the cut-off trees
18:24 hmmmm did somebody do something lately concerning mapgen because the last time I worked on anything this did not break
18:29 hmmmm jesus christ the regressions
18:31 Sokomine hmmm: do you have a screenshot at hand?
18:31 hmmmm no.  I can see it perfectly fine
18:32 hmmmm happened sometime in between e9e9e42573a50dbf94370996d65b03dca1d5c284 and e14c4cdd4c3c9b554dc9cb91f8f29078ad337ded
18:33 Sokomine hmmmm: posting a screenshot might help to find out if the phenomenon was observed by others before
18:33 hmmmm perhaps.  i don't really need to find that out though
18:35 hmmmm you know what, I bet this was my own stupid doing
18:36 iqualfragile hmmmm: lava flows into ungenerated mapblocks
18:41 hmmmm whoops, sorry guys, i broke the trees
18:42 hmmmm well derp
18:42 * VanessaE mumbles incoherently
18:42 hmmmm >tfw you accidentally griefed hundreds of peoples' servers
18:44 VanessaE hmmmm: shit happens.
18:45 hmmmm well i think it might be possible, pending the response from this one guy who made an issue like 3 weeks ago.
18:45 VanessaE is this perhaps the cause of the ordeal we've been arguing about for the past few days?
18:45 hmmmm no
18:45 VanessaE ok
18:45 hmmmm i have that fixed
18:45 VanessaE can't blame me for hoping ;)
18:45 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/f46695d02b17466281b4d957c12f1a55633029d2
18:49 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/a2e1b0fc7fa9a470f645e130115ce14a89aa2e02  this is a stupid commit
18:49 hmmmm there are about 500000 different cases where a generated block would still need to be saved
18:49 hmmmm (from the mapgen)
18:50 VanessaE oh no...
18:50 VanessaE that's not what I think it is...is it?
18:50 hmmmm I don't know what you think it is
18:50 VanessaE the glitch some folks had with the mapgen overwriting existing/user-built structures
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18:51 hmmmm i'm not really sure how it'd play into that
18:51 VanessaE well just looking at the patch alone it looks like it
18:51 hmmmm the only time blocks wouldn't be saved back if they've been generated is on mapgen time
18:51 hmmmm you didn't look closely enough
18:51 VanessaE you've got the whole code, I've just seen the patch so far
18:51 VanessaE anyway, no matter
18:57 VanessaE I'm just glad stuff is getting fixed.
19:18 hmmmm when I first saw the third person view i got excited
19:18 hmmmm then i realized it's crap.. the walking animation doesn't work properly
19:19 hmmmm it's very desynchronized from the player's actual movement
19:19 hmmmm and then you're not able to see what item/node is being wielded
19:19 VanessaE there's a mod for the latter,
19:19 VanessaE but how do you mean desynched?  it looks fine to me
19:20 hmmmm when i start walking the animation for walking does not start
19:21 VanessaE strange.. it works here
19:21 hmmmm looks like sam is hovering over the land
19:21 hmmmm and then he'll start erratically walking after i had already stopped
19:21 VanessaE and this is in singleplayer?
19:22 hmmmm i do all of my testing in singleplayer.
19:22 VanessaE strange.  even the tiniest steps are instantly reflected in the player animation here.
19:22 VanessaE is your minetest_game up-to-date?
19:22 VanessaE I know it's a derp question but can't hurt to ask
19:22 hmmmm it isn't
19:23 hmmmm it's quite old.  i don't update the game very often
19:23 * VanessaE checks dreambuilder also
19:23 VanessaE my mt_game is pretty close to HEAD, dreambuilder is much older as far as the player control code is concerned.
19:24 VanessaE however both behave as they should
19:24 hmmmm i'll check it out i guess..
19:24 hmmmm well
19:24 VanessaE and db has the split-limb model, too, so that's not it
19:24 hmmmm i don't play minetest so it doesn't concern me much
19:24 hmmmm i'm just pointing out that it doesn't work well
19:24 PilzAdam hmmmm, you need to update minetest_game in order for the animations to work properly
19:25 PilzAdam a new function was added so it can tell the client which animation to play
19:25 hmmmm ahhh ok
19:25 hmmmm thanks
19:32 VanessaE ah yes, I forgot about that function.
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19:44 paramat hmmmm, that error you saw in snow mod http://pastebin.com/f0ZFd00p i got that too, lots of bugs in that mod, my fixed and faster version is stored in here https://github.com/paramat/wieldhandsam2 but uses non-mapgen object vm
19:45 VanessaE "paramat/wieldhandsam2"  ?
19:45 VanessaE strange name for a snow mod :P
19:46 VanessaE oh, multiple mods there , derp
19:46 paramat :)
19:49 VanessaE hmmmm: getting back to the wield object for a moment..  there HAS been some call for a proper in-client solution to showing the wielded tool/object for a while now.  there's a mod by stu that does this but it's buggy under some circumstances (last time I used it, it left indestructible item entities all over the place).
19:55 paramat the code in snow mod was a perfectionist's OCD nightmare 8/
19:55 VanessaE haha
19:57 paramat back in 2h o/
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20:45 hmmmm paramat:  I fixed that thing
20:46 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/9e4e7072da8f565eef37da7558053a436b9cbba3
20:46 hmmmm try using a mapgen object vm again
21:10 iqualfragile in the player files is the position x,y,z?
21:10 iqualfragile position = (3078,135,1101.83)
21:10 iqualfragile height x, y?
21:10 VanessaE it is.
21:10 VanessaE in tenths.
21:10 VanessaE x,y,z that is.
21:10 VanessaE so that position is 307.8, 13.5, 110.183
21:11 iqualfragile why the fuck in tenths?
21:11 VanessaE beats me
21:11 hmmmm why not the fuck in tenths?
21:11 hmmmm what would you use?
21:11 iqualfragile because it will be a horrible nightmare to process in bash -.-
21:11 VanessaE hmmmm: I think he means why is it multiplied by 10.
21:12 hmmmm that's an awfully specific use case.  i'm sorry celeron didn't predict your future plight when he designed that 5 years ago or whenever
21:12 iqualfragile why not in ninths?
21:12 iqualfragile sounds better to me
21:13 iqualfragile i like the number
21:13 VanessaE which DOES beg the question, why IS it multiplied by 10?  wouldn't integers have been perfectly good for this?
21:13 hmmmm the reason why it's multiplied by 10 is so that it COULD be stored as an integer
21:13 celeron55 it's the glorious BullShit constant
21:13 VanessaE that's what I figured.
21:13 celeron55 the best thing ever
21:13 celeron55 (to be explained to anyone)
21:14 hmmmm VanessaE, the position needs to be stored in tenths simply because the player moves in increments of 1/10th
21:14 celeron55 there's no reason whatsoever for it to be applied to that saved value but it just happened to be and that's how it is then
21:14 hmmmm if the player really moved node by node, don't you think that would ruin the fluidity of motion..?
21:14 VanessaE seems fair.
21:15 VanessaE hmmmm: sure...if that file were constantly being re-read after every player movement.
21:15 hmmmm I think it would be annoying to start off in a slightly different spot on every player join
21:15 celeron55 moving in tenths of nodes wouldn't exactly be "fluid" motion 8D
21:15 hmmmm well, yeah, but being able to round to 1/10th makes it a lot more fluid than otherwise
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21:15 hmmmm makes things much less perceptible i should say
21:16 hmmmm differences
21:16 VanessaE I doubt a player would notice if they're off by half a node when they re-join, were it storing a rounded integer position.
21:16 celeron55 there's no other reason for BS than it forcing conversion between integer and floating-point positions to be explicit
21:16 VanessaE doesn't matter anyway, it's just an academic curiosity
21:16 celeron55 _no_other_reason_
21:16 hmmmm huh?
21:16 celeron55 when it happens to be in saved values, it's just laziness
21:17 iqualfragile so why isn't it stored in ints then?
21:17 hmmmm I thought the point of BS was to convert to irrlicht coordinates
21:17 hmmmm because a block was visually 10 whatevers
21:17 celeron55 and just the fact that nobody would have guessed that anything other than minetest would have cared about what minetest saves
21:17 hmmmm so it really is bullshit
21:18 celeron55 well it does that too, that has no meaning whatsoever; everything would work equally with BS=1, except for the reason i just said
21:19 iqualfragile ok, so im gona post the command i will use in the end for extracting the position and you will be forced to look at it
21:20 celeron55 i posted some bash stuff on my solo game development channel today
21:20 celeron55 $ grep '>' -Isn 201*/*8dromeda* | grep -v 'celeron55.*>' | cut -d/ -f1,2 | cut -d: -f1,3 | cut -c1-7,17,32-33 | xargs -n1 date -d | cut -d' ' -f1 | sort | uniq -c | sort -n
21:20 celeron55 i'm mentally prepared for your version of bash shit 8D
21:21 * celeron55 is the true evil
21:21 iqualfragile you could just sort -u
21:21 celeron55 maybe; i couldn't have cared less
21:22 hmmmm you could just write a Python script in 1/10th the time it takes to figure out the necessary command switches
21:22 iqualfragile hmmmm: nah, thats just basic stuff
21:22 celeron55 ...or just don't figure out the necessary ones and use three times the ones you remember
21:22 iqualfragile you usually know these ones by heart
21:22 hmmmm right, it all comes down to familiarity
21:22 hmmmm whatever you know best is going to be the fastest
21:23 hmmmm ...i used to write C utilities to do text processing occasionally
21:24 iqualfragile echo $(($(cat worlds/newworld/players/Iqualfragile | grep -F position | cut -d, -f2 | cut -d. -f1) /10)),$(($(cat worlds/newworld/players/Iqualfragile | grep -F position | cut -d, -f3 | cut -d. -f1) / 10))
21:24 celeron55 absolutely lovely
21:25 iqualfragile not even all that ugly
21:25 iqualfragile imagined it would be worse
21:25 iqualfragile but it does open the file twice, which is ugly
21:26 celeron55 hmmmm: using C's scanf and printf is actually probably a relatively fast way of making these
21:26 iqualfragile sed all the way
21:34 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/f3eefeb7948b8b8d1a98f2f89baa39abc807f72d
21:34 hmmmm tell me if anybody would find this useful or not
21:34 hmmmm basically you can set a specific MapNode table at a specific position in a voxelmanip, for special cases, rather than having to set everything in bulk and then set with set_node after
21:35 hmmmm so if you have one goofy node in the middle of the map that you'd like to set, you can do vm:set_node_at(pos, {name="koolmod123:thingie", param1=whatever, param2=whatever}))
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21:53 VanessaE might be useful
21:53 VanessaE sokomine had an idea or two for her villages mod that I think needed something similar to this actually
22:09 hmmmm i thought sokomine was a guy
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22:14 Sokomine no, i'm female
22:15 Sokomine i'm sure those new functions will come in handy in many situations - especially as they allow to set a few nodes without bothering too much about vm
22:16 Sokomine for the villages, the only working solution i found was to write to the entire vm - including shell. that seems to work fine so far - no more caves inside houses, and no more mudflow problems
22:17 Sokomine it seems to be cruical to be able to generate such a mapchunk procedurally from the coordinates/seed entirely (minus perhaps some decorative plants)
22:20 Sokomine after the vm is written via vm:write_to_map(data), there are a few calls using set_node - for chests which are to be filled (though that could be done - apart from the metadata - with vm as well), and some ground grass node type changes for those buildings that are schematics
22:20 hmmmm oh yeah - these new functions clearly aren't going to work for metadata
22:21 hmmmm metadata are far beyond the scope of what luavoxelmanipulator is intended to do and requires an unreasonable amount of effort to handle
22:21 hmmmm s/are/is/
22:21 Sokomine that's ok. those chests are an exception and can be handled that way
22:23 Sokomine what would be great, though, would be an option to insert a schematic into a voxelmanip. would seem cleaner than reading a worldedit file, doing some string comparison/deserialization, rotation etc. there
22:24 hmmmm the best would be if schematics were removed from the core and instead implemented in Lua using voxelmanips
22:24 Sokomine perhaps that as well. if it wouldn't make them slower?
22:25 Sokomine it's an incredibly useful, well-working format, that .mts format. only disadvantage is that it can't be read from lua as we don't have a lib to uncompress the data at hand
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22:36 paramat hmmmm, i'll compile latest and test your work https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/9e4e7072da8f565eef37da7558053a436b9cbba3 soon, with plantlife and snow combination, and with 2 of my own mods
22:36 hmmmm well I already tested it but okay
22:38 paramat also 'Add LuaVoxelManip methods: get_node_at() and set_node_at()' seems very useful
22:58 iqualfragile how often are player files saved?
23:14 PilzAdam iqualfragile, every server_map_save_interval seconds, but only if they are modified
23:15 iqualfragile is that in secs?
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23:16 PilzAdam yes, seconds is in seconds
23:25 hmmmm alright so how is this: local vm = VoxelManip(pmin, pmax);  creates a LuaVoxelManip with a buffer allocated, filled with CONTENT_IGNORE
23:26 hmmmm if you allocate a VoxelManip in that manner, you don't need to pass the pmin and pmax parameters to VoxelManip:read_from_map()
23:26 hmmmm if you specify a pmin/pmax in the ctor and also in read_from_map(), the area will be reallocated for the area specified in the latter
23:27 hmmmm and of course, reverse compatibility is maintained by not specifying a pmin/max in the ctor but in the read_from_map:  i.e.  local vm = VoxelManip(); vm:read_from_map(pmin, pmax)
23:27 hmmmm any comments?
23:33 iqualfragile PilzAdam: heh, i should sleep
23:34 paramat so i guess this allows writing a vm to map without having to read from map first, so faster for certain uses
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23:38 hmmmm actually i'd argue it's faster for most uses
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23:39 hmmmm whenever you want to place some thing on the map
23:39 hmmmm if you know the coordinates
23:40 hisforeverkid hi I;d like to know how to plant a pinecone?
23:40 paramat oh yeah for mapgen in singlenode, you don't need to read the map at all
23:40 hmmmm like if you wanted to make sphere of stone, or something, you can just draw the sphere in the voxelmanip without loading map first, and then when you go to write it to map, it'll only write the pieces of the voxelmanip that aren't content_ignore
23:40 hmmmm the idea is that content_ignore is sort of like a transparent pixel in a drawing
23:40 paramat nice
23:42 paramat this is for both mapgen object vm and non mapgen object vm?
23:43 VanessaE now THAT should be useful for sure
23:43 hisforeverkid ok sorry
23:43 hmmmm well both, but the map has already been read for the mapgen object vm
23:43 hmmmm so what's the point
23:43 paramat yeah
23:49 hisforever joined #minetest-dev
23:56 proller joined #minetest-dev

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