Time  Nick         Message
01:30 nore_        fu-fu: it is the 16x16x16 mapblock that contains pos that is forceloaded
03:29 fu-fu        nore_: Thankyou
04:24 RealBadAngel hi
04:25 Zeno`        hi
04:27 RealBadAngel hi Zeno`
04:29 RealBadAngel i can see you had problems with squashing those commits
04:30 RealBadAngel hmmmm, around?
04:35 Zeno`        oh yeah I did
04:36 Zeno`        I squashed into the wrong commit heh
04:36 Zeno`        the commit I picked to sqash and the commit I picked to "pick" should have been the other way around
04:36 Zeno`        oops
05:00 RealBadAngel maybe best way could be just to apply changes manually on the clean file?
05:01 Zeno`        maybe
05:02 Zeno`        and do a whole new commit?
05:03 Zeno`        All the commits actually exist in this one: https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/commit/8f57e0e1d2b9b9fb6723083d894cab6518a0b44f
05:04 Zeno`        So they're not lost... just not where I really wanted them to be
05:11 RealBadAngel even when you remove the tree commit will be still here
05:14 Zeno`        I have no problem starting a new branch and committing from scratch; the real problem is I addressed two open issues in one commit (because the second commit was adding 1 line to l_env.cpp to set a default value for random_level)
05:15 Zeno`        I hindsight I would have done it differently heh
08:01 RealBadAngel kahrl, here?
10:36 Zeno`        quiet
15:40 eugd         why not have MAP_GENERATION_LIMIT as a server variable?
15:41 eugd         i've seen mention of mods to limit generation, shouldn't that be a basic engine feature?
15:42 eugd         If they're not working through the engine I can only think they're probably very inefficient (just forcing all unmade blocks to be air?)
16:07 eugd         MAP_GENERATION_LIMIT as a server setting?
16:12 VanessaE     why?
16:12 VanessaE     the map is generated only as needed
16:13 VanessaE     even with mods that generate map stuff.
16:14 VanessaE     a player explores a new area, the engine handles generating only the blocks within range of the player (or tells the mods to do so).
16:14 VanessaE     it doesn't just generate "everything"
16:14 Jordach      VanessaE, he means upto a point, the mapgen will just generate nothing, like the walls of void, but closer
16:15 Jordach      (eg making the 31km invisi walls at <x>KM instead)
16:16 PenguinDad   A mod could already do this without a big performance impact
16:16 eugd         VanessaE, this is currently in the engine as a constant
16:16 eugd         set to 31000
16:16 VanessaE     eugd: that's just as far as the engine will go
16:16 VanessaE     that doesn't mean it will go there always
16:17 VanessaE     it just means it won't go *past* there.
16:17 eugd         i was thinking it would be better to do it in engine than with mods
16:17 eugd         yes i understand
16:17 eugd         i've heard mention of mods to shrink this further
16:17 eugd         which makes sense
16:23 celeron55    if you do it in the engine, then people are going to request eg. other shapes and whatever special stuff which won't be added to the engine
16:24 celeron55    so if it's possible to do in mods without issues, then it should be because that is the extendable way
16:24 celeron55    (this applies to everything)
16:27 eugd         haha i was thinking of it as a likely necesarry first step to other 'special stuff'
16:32 eugd         I'm curious if there is any technical barrier to it at all
16:32 eugd         just adding it to the server config file and changing all references to that
17:24 celeron55    probably not
17:30 Calinou      the idea behind making it a variable is that you can use it to not have too large maps (file size)
17:30 Calinou      and make it slighly larger (32000?)
18:52 eugd         what is the "chunksize" field in map_meta.txt?
19:03 Krock        5 = 80*80*80 nodes get generated at once
19:03 Krock        5 * 16 = 80
19:03 Krock        set it to 4 for faster map generation and copputions of already existing maps
19:22 eugd         "copputions"?
19:23 PenguinDad   eugd: I guess he meant corruptions
19:24 sapier       VanessaE try disabling farming
19:25 sapier       I see abm spikes up to almost a second on initial join
19:27 VanessaE_    ?
19:27 VanessaE_    in *farming*  ?!
19:27 sapier       remember the profiler we did talk about?
19:27 VanessaE_    yes of course
19:27 sapier       I've got a prototype only tracing some calls, including abms
19:29 sapier       https://gist.github.com/sapier/0407cc49376b0ef68ed6 see the maximum value for farming abm ... it's almost a second ... and that's a new world
19:29 sapier       those are "per step" values means one server step is delayed by that much time
19:30 VanessaE_    ouch
19:30 sapier       as you can see the average value for farming is quite good seems like a login spike only
19:37 VanessaE_    any clue just what's going on there?
19:37 sapier       oops
19:37 VanessaE_    oops?
19:37 sapier       those spikes aren't on join only
19:37 sapier       they happen every now and then
19:38 sapier       I'd guess for some reason abm's aren't spread good enough
19:39 VanessaE_    are they stacking due to mapgen lag maybe?
19:41 sapier       possible but as you see in that paste on_generated isn't laging ... but I don't trace all possible things right now
19:42 VanessaE_    true
19:46 sapier       grrr ... ShadowNinja could you please fix the error in errorhandling caused by a bug in some entity callback? ;-)
20:01 XDdrummer    Any developers in here at the moment?
20:03 sfan5        yes
20:04 XDdrummer    Just wondering if there's any sort of process to joining the dev team.
20:05 sapier       onle the usual process how to contribute to oss projects
20:06 sfan5        start contributing
20:06 sfan5        e.g. writing code, docs or other stuff
20:06 sfan5        and if you've contributed enough
20:06 XDdrummer    Mkay, thank you :p
20:07 sapier       ahh well one special thing ... on contributing to minetest you agree to be flamed every now and then by everyone
20:08 XDdrummer    xD
20:10 VanessaE_    just one other thing:
20:10 sapier       https://gist.github.com/sapier/b2885fccf7e77800451a
20:11 VanessaE_    make an account on github and don't give us any shit about hating their terms or whatever ;)
20:11 * VanessaE_  pokes at Zefram ;)
20:11 sapier       compared to farming even mobfs spawning is lightweight ;-P
20:11 VanessaE_    sapier: are you sure the figures are correct?
20:12 sapier       they're not complete, thus percentage values may be slightly of but abolute us values are correct
20:13 sapier       wow ... those chicken are quite hungry :-)
20:13 VanessaE_    heh
20:13 VanessaE_    dare I ask you to run Dreambuilder through it? ;)
20:13 sapier       yet it's 0.7ms delay ;-)
20:13 VanessaE_    (grab build #20140812-1612)
20:14 sapier       can you give me a link=
20:14 VanessaE_    https://github.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_game
20:14 sapier       btw changes to minetest are 99.9% pure lua
20:14 sapier       the only thing I had to do in c++ was providing a high precision time source
20:14 VanessaE_    ice
20:14 VanessaE_    nice
20:15 sapier       I could've done using luasocket too but I'd like this to be usefull without additional software
20:15 sapier       is dreambuilder complete or do I need default game too?
20:15 VanessaE_    it's complete.
20:15 sapier       ok
20:16 sapier       btw last gist was simplified display, I can show details what in mod is using most time too
20:16 sapier       but the output was already way to long for mobf :-)
20:18 sapier       what is this game doing?
20:19 sapier       https://gist.github.com/sapier/268212b0fe1a2ad277ef
20:19 sapier       git master
20:19 sapier       12s stall in globalstep?
20:19 VanessaE_    mapgen probably
20:20 sapier       no on_generated by now ... but I'm stalled right now too :-) so could be next
20:20 VanessaE_    wait, you're still in minetest_game?
20:20 sapier       no dreambuilder
20:21 VanessaE_    I have no idea :P
20:22 sapier       that list should be printed to console every 10s but hasn't been printed for about 5 min now ;-)
20:22 VanessaE_    it shouldn't be doing anything at the start but a shitload of mapgen stuff
20:22 sapier       yes I did start a new world
20:23 VanessaE_    hm, maybe the ambiance mod?
20:23 sapier       I try without my tracing addons to be sure
20:24 VanessaE_    either that or snowdrift, those are the only two that should be able to do anything at the start of a new world.
20:24 VanessaE_    (if it's ambiance, I'll remove it.  it was just added today and I'm unsure if I want to keep it)
20:25 sapier       ok better without tracing
20:25 VanessaE_    ?
20:25 sapier       doesn't stall completely
20:26 VanessaE_    wow.
20:26 VanessaE_    it does raise the server's CPU needs a little bit. but only briefly.
20:27 VanessaE_    22824 minetest  20   0 1892m 380m  49m S  24.8  4.8  31:45.52 /usr/bin/minetestserver --worldname Survival_World --config /home/min
20:27 VanessaE_    (there are three of us on that server right now)
20:27 VanessaE_    ok, it's not ambiance then.   must be something else
20:28 sapier       https://gist.github.com/sapier/268212b0fe1a2ad277ef on world generated without
20:28 sapier       worst step is delayed by 16s
20:28 VanessaE_    well all those on_generated calls is unsurprising.
20:29 sapier       ok forget about it now worst one is 28 seconds
20:29 VanessaE_    in?
20:31 VanessaE_    I really wonder what could be causing huge stalls in globalstep like that
20:31 VanessaE_    could you please delete ambiance and try again?
20:32 sapier       according to this traces ambience mod is almost irrelevant
20:32 VanessaE_    *looks at grep output*
20:32 VanessaE_    snowdrift?
20:32 sapier       moretrees and ferns  are biggest single laggers ... sorry VanessaE
20:33 VanessaE_    er, moretrees doesn't use globalstep :P
20:34 sapier       those are on_generated or abm lags
20:34 VanessaE_    oh ok
20:34 VanessaE_    so just ignore those
20:34 VanessaE_    at least the ones attributed to builtin
20:35 sapier       but there's at least a bug in displaying values too as I don't believe multiple entries to have exactly same value
20:35 VanessaE_    are you running this with luajit?
20:35 sapier       I don't know
20:36 sapier       let me check
20:37 sapier       no I don't use luajit
20:37 VanessaE_    try with please
20:37 sapier       ok ... hopfully tracing still works ... hmm it's lua only so it should work
20:37 VanessaE_    should work I'd think
20:38 sapier       still you should improve moretrees and ferns ;-)
20:38 VanessaE_    I plan to.
20:38 VanessaE_    I have to rewrite plants_lib in ways that will affect everything that depends on it, so today I've imported ferns, dryplants and undergrowth into plantlife
20:39 sapier       10s are way to much for a single step ;-) ... wonder why ppl only complain about mobf which doesn't cause lag near to those values ;-)
20:39 VanessaE_    which *should* cover all of the otherwise-unsupported mods
20:39 VanessaE_    however:
20:39 VanessaE_    I need YOU to help:
20:39 VanessaE_    moretrees needs the engine's help specifically:  the spawn_tree() call is dog slow.
20:40 VanessaE_    when last I was told, because the lighting code therein is slow.
20:40 VanessaE_    this needs fixed before moretrees can improve too much
20:40 VanessaE_    but I will do what I can from my end.
20:41 sapier       not sure if wouldn't be more easy to do the spawning different but hard to tell without knowing details
20:41 VanessaE_    another thing that would greatly benefit plantlife/plants_lib is a search-for-surfaces algorithm in the engine.  THAT is the biggest bottleneck.
20:42 VanessaE_    if I could just call minetest.find_surfaces_in_area(minp, maxp) --> returns table of nodes that have air above
20:42 sapier       hmm that one is sitting around for ... don't know ... about a year?
20:42 VanessaE_    eh?
20:44 VanessaE_    (surfaces, preferably with a filter option e.g. only stone with air above, etc)
20:44 sapier       https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/640
20:44 VanessaE_    ohyeah
20:45 sapier       almost 1.5 years
20:46 sapier       https://gist.github.com/sapier/86ad62c58531b865a4a8  luajit values
20:46 sapier       worst case is now 23 seconds
20:47 VanessaE_    well 5 seconds faster
20:48 sapier       biggest single laggers are (in order of delay) ferns moretrees builtin flowers_plus trunks dryplants woodsoils
20:48 sapier       everything else is below 1s
20:48 VanessaE_    what's in builtin that's lagging though I wonder?
20:49 sapier       I don't know seems something on init it's on globalstep and done on init only ... maybe it's loading of mods
20:49 VanessaE_    (mind you this is older code, so compare it to pre-minetest_next.  I don't track current minetest_game)
20:49 VanessaE_    oh ok
20:50 VanessaE_    who cares about init/startup then
20:50 sapier       actually that can't be
20:50 sapier       no ... it can be
20:50 sapier       ... hmm guess I don't know
20:50 VanessaE_    maybe you better track register_node/register_craft* calls ;)
20:51 sapier       those should be accounted to the mods
20:51 sapier       builtin can only be initializing builtin data
20:51 sapier       don't know why this is that much
21:02 VanessaE_    no clue
21:10 sapier       https://github.com/sapier/minetest/tree/luamod_tracing in case you wanna try yourself
21:10 sapier       it's not complete yet but most common things are already traced
21:11 VanessaE_    I'm afraid to try :P
21:15 VanessaE_    all that time spent in builtin....could it be the tracing code counting itself?
21:16 sapier       console printing maybe
21:16 sapier       but not those 12s in dreambuilder
21:16 VanessaE_    naw
21:16 VanessaE_    I just meant that one particular part.
21:17 VanessaE_    I'm pretty sure I know what needs done to speed up the stuff that depends on plants_lib
21:17 sapier       tracing doesn't count itself thus it shouldn't be included
21:23 sapier       I wonder why I haven't written this tool before it's quite small and provides a lot of information
21:23 VanessaE_    you didn't have me here egging you on? ;)
21:24 sapier       possible ... but I guess I got annoyed about mobf beeing blamed for other mods delays
21:24 VanessaE_    haha
21:25 sapier       about 30 active mobs and mobf isn't using more then 6ms
21:25 sapier       3 of them used by about 15 chicken :-)
21:25 VanessaE_    heh
21:26 * VanessaE_  looks at plants_lib's code and considers the rewrite in question...and shudders,
21:26 sapier       trapped within a very small area thus doing permanent collision avoidance
21:27 sapier       you could have a look at adv_spawning maybe it's less work to improve it to fit your requirements
21:30 VanessaE_    I'll figure it out, no worries.