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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-08-11

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Time Nick Message
00:02 RealBadAngel rotfl
00:02 RealBadAngel replaced air with water
00:03 RealBadAngel no wonder mgv6 is still so slow
00:03 Jordach kahrl, i useb MGV7 as default now
00:03 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/ZU3F75t.png
00:04 RealBadAngel its just doing the caves all the time
00:04 RealBadAngel without any height limits
00:05 RealBadAngel i made once patch for it but it was rejected, it was like more than yr ago
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00:14 VanessaE I think it's time to revisit the idea of patching that out.
00:14 VanessaE there's zero reason to be generating caves above roughly 30m or so.
00:21 RealBadAngel mgv7 is not generating caves in the air
00:26 RealBadAngel ok, i know the reason
00:26 RealBadAngel if (!ndef->get(c).is_ground_content)
00:26 RealBadAngel continue;
00:26 RealBadAngel content air for mapgen is ground content
00:31 RealBadAngel if (!ndef->get(c).is_ground_content || c == CONTENT_AIR) thats enough to dont let it carve shit above ground
00:33 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/cavegen.cpp#L251
00:33 RealBadAngel any objections i will push the fix directly?
00:35 kahrl air is ground content? I guess someone took their biology class too literally :P
00:35 RealBadAngel mgv7 does the same check
00:36 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/cavegen.cpp#L559
00:39 RealBadAngel but i was wrong, the check alone is not enough for mgv6
00:39 RealBadAngel it is still doing the caves
00:46 RealBadAngel checking for air simply doesnt work, below theres also another check
00:46 RealBadAngel not working too, funny
00:50 nore_ Rba: air -> not ground content in builtin would be easier?
00:50 nore_ kahrl: that was when is_ground_content was defaulted to true...
01:01 RealBadAngel the check here simply doesnt work for some reason
01:02 RealBadAngel when i set it to if (1) caves are disabled just
01:02 RealBadAngel but when i do if (c == CONTENT_AIR) it makes the caves everywhere
01:03 RealBadAngel to be more funny i added there msg about skipping, it prints the message and does the caves
01:03 RealBadAngel wtf?
01:04 RealBadAngel if (c == CONTENT_AIR){
01:04 RealBadAngel dstream<<"Skipping\n";
01:04 RealBadAngel continue;
01:04 RealBadAngel }
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01:27 RealBadAngel holy shit, i replaced cave air with stone and guess what i got :)
01:28 nore_ No caves? :)
01:28 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/upjvf46.png
01:28 RealBadAngel rotfl
01:29 VanessaE turned caves into dirt eh?
01:30 nore_ Floatlands!
01:31 RealBadAngel btw, why the fuck ores are generated in the stone above the clouds?
01:31 RealBadAngel wasnt there a max height limit?
01:32 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/avam3Km.png
01:33 VanessaE um, that shouldn't happen.
01:33 nore_ RBA: absheight flag
01:33 nore_ Mese will generate above 256 for example
01:33 nore_ s/256/128/
01:34 RealBadAngel ok
01:41 Sokomine the cavegen and mudflow is still giving me trouble; is_ground_content is only a partial solution as the houses are built out of diffrent materials (which may be stone as well); only way to get around the cavegen seems to spawn multiple times?
01:41 RealBadAngel anyway, but why the heck the check even if workin (i mean finds content air) carves the caves as usual?
01:42 RealBadAngel while setting the condition to 1 disables it completely?
01:55 RealBadAngel lol, found the reason
01:55 RealBadAngel that dumb code was makin caves in CONTENT_IGNORE
01:59 nore_ lol
01:59 RealBadAngel but adding such check is not a solution, it effects with far less caves in underground
02:00 nore_ Wait, it makes caves *before* the rest is generated??
02:00 RealBadAngel it looks like
02:00 RealBadAngel before even block is loaded
02:01 RealBadAngel it looks like it doesnt care if the block is loaded or not
02:01 RealBadAngel it just happily creates caves everywhere
02:01 nore_ Strange
02:02 RealBadAngel yup, with check on CONTENT_IGNORE it makes caves only in loaded blocks
02:02 RealBadAngel and i can see just a few caves underground
02:02 RealBadAngel and none above the ground
02:03 RealBadAngel i think the only solution is to limit the height
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02:22 paramat RBA actually i disagree with the more saturated colours, sorry if i wasn't clear. also i noticed you've made EW faces brighter than NS faces? fairly sure the management want it kept unchanged, i did a comparison and now think EW darker is better :)
02:23 * VanessaE throttles paramat
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02:24 paramat lol
02:25 paramat i'll test the pull request soon, not sure i have time right now, but within a day
02:25 VanessaE test it now :P
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02:37 RealBadAngel RBA,colors are not more saturated
02:37 RealBadAngel actually levels in pull are lower than before
02:38 RealBadAngel top face is 1.0 instead of sqrt(1.3)
02:38 RealBadAngel why i wrote to myself? rotfl
02:39 VanessaE haha
02:39 RealBadAngel paramat, that was addressed to you :)
02:39 Exio go to sleep RealBadAngel!
02:39 RealBadAngel and about switching faces i dont like sides facing the sun being darker
02:40 RealBadAngel its against any logic
02:40 RealBadAngel btw, i have fixed those damn caves
02:41 RealBadAngel now just makin sure that they will be able to carve holes in the mountains or cliffs
02:41 paramat okay will test the pull to check colours
02:42 RealBadAngel later on i will make also overall brightness and contrast settings possible
02:42 RealBadAngel because i can clearly see no matter what i will code there will be always some1 to get the opposite
02:42 paramat i made comparison screenshots, with the sun in view EW darker actually looks better because you expect shadows towards you ... i'll get those images ...
02:43 RealBadAngel this is not really about shadows
02:43 RealBadAngel its about what face is being better lit
02:43 RealBadAngel and thats whole difference
02:44 VanessaE paramat: besides which, sooner or later there will be real shadows being cast by the sun and light sources.
02:44 VanessaE (in shaders anyway)
02:44 RealBadAngel not only
02:44 VanessaE you think you can do it without?
02:44 RealBadAngel it will work with and without shaders
02:44 VanessaE even better.
02:45 RealBadAngel lighting? ofc
02:45 RealBadAngel engine will do that for us
02:45 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/T8wf2tp.png
02:45 RealBadAngel this is without shaders
02:46 RealBadAngel and faces shading too, btw
02:49 RealBadAngel paramat, and i havent saw a thing IRL that could cast a shadow onto itself ;)
02:50 RealBadAngel especially any cube ;)
02:50 paramat current EW darker > http://i.imgur.com/1enABtU.png ... NS darker > http://i.imgur.com/E4Rlrro.png ... both look okay but i perhaps prefer EW darker
02:52 VanessaE I can see what he's saying, RealBadAngel.
02:52 VanessaE this can only be solved by making the face lighting actually follow the sun.
02:53 RealBadAngel i can live with partially wrong solution better than with completely wrong one
02:53 VanessaE however, having EW faces be darker during midday is definitely wrong for sure
02:54 RealBadAngel like they said better to have at least one hand than none
02:55 VanessaE paramat: can we agree that EW faces being brighter than NS is not, itself, a reason to stop otherwise correct figures from going in?
02:56 * VanessaE especially wants the patch to go in because it finally fixes light sources and liquids once and for all
03:00 RealBadAngel i can revert faces switch if there will be more votes to do so
03:00 paramat its not all or nothing, RBA could just swap X face values for Z face values
03:01 RealBadAngel thats just what i did
03:01 RealBadAngel and you thought how thats done?
03:02 paramat i'm just keeping you out of trouble ;) i think celeron wants EW darker as is tradition for Minetest
03:02 RealBadAngel tradition of mt is having things buggy and upside down :P
03:02 RealBadAngel like those damn caves
03:03 paramat okay tested pull, faces shading looks okay, colours look perhaps okay ...
03:03 VanessaE "perhaps"?
03:04 RealBadAngel i dont fucking belive that yrs old issue is still here and eating CPU like nothing happened
03:05 RealBadAngel folks are blaming our mods to slow down the mapgen while it happily puts shitload of caves above the ground
03:07 RealBadAngel paramat, check out lightsources and liquids
03:07 paramat yeah colours are fine actually
03:08 RealBadAngel and btw, that pull makes it again faster
03:08 RealBadAngel first of all, all the top nodes are not boosted anymore so 1/6th calls went off
03:09 RealBadAngel 2nd, since color.b is the lightsource value theres no reason to multiply it
03:09 RealBadAngel so the call multiplies only r and g
03:09 paramat ah i see. i appreciate the more lightweight code
03:12 RealBadAngel and finally you can see real texture in the game
03:14 RealBadAngel it sounds like a shitload of features for such small commit ;)
03:19 RealBadAngel anyway, i will wait for more devs to check it and vote
03:19 paramat if you make EW faces the darker pair im happy with this pull (but i'm hardly an authority here)
03:20 RealBadAngel since you were the one to open issue about it i can do that right now to avoid argues with others
03:20 RealBadAngel but then you will have to close it ;)
03:26 paramat #1462 is closed, or do you mean #1546
03:31 paramat toodlepip!
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04:14 RealBadAngel ok, here comes cavegen fix: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1554
04:14 RealBadAngel its still being able to carve caves in cliffs and mountains
04:15 RealBadAngel but cannot generate caves in the sky
04:22 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1555
04:22 RealBadAngel this one adds main menu music
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07:39 Zeno` I have no idea why I did this, but I suspect I just don't like unnecessary globals don't make sense (and the comments associated with them don't either... they've been there since MT was first uploaded to github): http://codepad.org/6McXOdQp
07:41 Zeno` All of the tests remain the same, *except* "Testing floating-point vector speed" which takes about twice as much time (which I guess invalidates the comment that they were global to minimise optimisations)
07:43 Zeno` err, from main.cpp btw
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08:54 Zeno` RealBadAngel, ping
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10:07 RealBadAngel Zeno`,  yes?
10:09 Zeno` RealBadAngel, just wondering if I should squash https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1543
10:09 Zeno` I was unsure because it, really, addresses two issues :3
10:10 RealBadAngel so 2 pulls?
10:11 RealBadAngel but then you will have to rebase before the 2nd
10:11 RealBadAngel just squash it
10:11 RealBadAngel it touches the very same code
10:14 Zeno` yep ok
10:14 Zeno` thanks
10:22 PenguinDad RealBadAngel: #1553 seems to only fix the liquid shading when shaders are disabled https://mediacru.sh/e8fbdbfee631
10:23 Zeno` that didn't work out so well, lol
10:25 Calinou I have the same problem, PenguinDad
10:27 RealBadAngel hmmz, thats pretty strange
10:30 Zeno` can't rebase now I've stuffed up
10:30 RealBadAngel does the water and lava work ok?
10:30 Zeno` oh well, close the merge requests I guess
10:31 RealBadAngel PenguinDad, ?
10:31 Zeno` I'll write them again in a few weeks I guess
10:31 PenguinDad Water and lava look ok :/
10:32 RealBadAngel so whats that yellow thingy?
10:33 PenguinDad That green liquid is acid from carbone
10:33 RealBadAngel i see, i will check out whats wrong with it
10:33 RealBadAngel propably mod issue not the code
10:37 Zeno` or maybe I can clone
10:37 * Zeno` thinks
10:42 RealBadAngel i have to go now, bbl
10:42 Zeno` wait!
10:42 Zeno` lol
10:42 Zeno` oh, nvm... if it doesn't work it doesn't work
10:43 Zeno` done
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10:44 Zeno` looks right to me anyway
10:48 Zeno` :(
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15:28 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
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17:50 luizrpgluiz hi devs and guys
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18:54 luizrpgluiz devs I had an idea of a minecraft world generator that could work in minetest
18:55 luizrpgluiz because guys do not create the generator has the world Amplified minetest?
18:55 sfan5 tell us your idea
18:56 luizrpgluiz because guys create the generator has the world Amplified minetest?
18:57 sfan5 what?
19:03 luizrpgluiz the idea would be to put the generator amplified world of minecraft in minetest
19:04 sapier "put"?
19:04 sapier luizrpgluiz: you're aware that minecraft uses java while minetest is c++/lua?
19:07 luizrpgluiz I mean for example create a world generator amplified as in minecraft
19:08 sapier luizrpgluiz: please first define the term "world generator amplified" ;-)
19:09 luizrpgluiz seen the generator worlds in minecraft?
19:09 Amaz No.
19:10 sfan5 what exactly do you mean?
19:10 sapier No too
19:11 luizrpgluiz amplified means to have more mountains, huge caves, plains least
19:11 sapier ok coroutines and minetest are a no-go
19:12 PenguinDad why?
19:12 sapier coroutines implicit create their own lua stack therefore you can't use minetest api from a coroutine ... at least not all of it
19:14 Amaz luizrpgluiz, picture of what you are talking about please. And have you seen watershed? https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=8609 Might have some of the things you want in...
19:17 PenguinDad It's a pity that the full api isn't available in coroutines :/
19:22 luizrpgluiz http://cdn6.portalprogramasnet.com/m​ilbits/imagenes/Modo_amplificado.jpg
19:26 luizrpgluiz :)
19:31 luizrpgluiz this image is an example of biome amplified
19:33 sfan5 oh
19:33 sfan5 that
19:33 sfan5 you could achieve that by changing the perlin noises for mgv6
19:35 luizrpgluiz but how do I change it?
19:37 sfan5 look in map_meta.txt
19:39 celeron55 that won't give satisfactory results
19:39 celeron55 if you want that much vertical stuff
19:40 celeron55 v7 might be able to do it (not sure); a lua generator is the best bet
19:41 luizrpgluiz I loved the update can render the game in direct3d and software
19:41 sapier wow coroutines are quite heavy stuff ... even if we can fix the api issues they might not help for lots of small tasks
19:43 luizrpgluiz rendering in Direct3D already left with more fps here minetest
19:46 luizrpgluiz bad in Direct3D 8 does not open, but he usually opens at 9
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20:46 VanessaE sapier: by coroutines, in this context it almost sounds like you mean C++ mapgen hooks being used outside of the engine core?
20:46 VanessaE e.g. by another C++ extension?
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21:07 sapier no lua coroutines
21:08 VanessaE ah
21:09 sapier coroutines use voluntary preemption thus they don't use multicore cpu's but if they'd been lightweight enough they'd be usable for small things done pseudo parallel ... but seems like they're way to heavy
21:10 VanessaE eh
21:10 VanessaE I don't think that's all that useful to us
21:10 sapier true
21:10 VanessaE we already have ABMs and callbacks
21:10 VanessaE which in practice look more or less the same anyway if they're coded well
21:11 VanessaE they're just not realtime, as such
21:11 sapier the only way to use them is create a coroutine and push jobs there ... but that's almost as heavy as full async using multicore cpus
21:12 sapier the only benefit would be as coroutines are not parallel fixing api to be available to coroutines would be possible ... while it's way to much work for async things ... at least at start
21:17 VanessaE I think at this point there are more important things to focus on, honestly
21:17 sapier true but spawning requires a way to do things async as it can take a lot of time
21:17 VanessaE this is true
21:18 sapier usually it doesn't but one spike is enough to cause major lag
21:18 VanessaE don't I know that.
21:18 VanessaE I've been seeing major lag spikes lately from sign-ons, and it ain't from media downloads (these users already have it)
21:19 sapier guess some mods do things on join
21:19 sapier I was thinking about adding some sort of mod profiling ... maybe it's time to do it now
21:20 VanessaE I have some code xyz gave me for that purpose
21:20 VanessaE want it?
21:20 VanessaE it's pretty thorough
21:20 VanessaE but sorta barebones as far as how it's actually used.
21:20 VanessaE could use a little "fleshing-out"\
21:21 sapier I have a profiler too but I thought about some built in mechanism telling you mod x using y% of cpu per step xxx ms at max
21:22 VanessaE yes
21:22 VanessaE that's precisely the sort of thing we need
21:22 VanessaE it would be useful if that can be broken down a little further, e.g. by function name, let's say
21:22 VanessaE (or by some other slightly more fine-grained measure anyway)
21:23 sapier well function name is hard as generic feature as it's gonna be quite slow
21:23 VanessaE true but one need not always have the profiler turned on
21:23 sapier but e.g. on_step on_generate on_join might be possible without to much overhead
21:23 VanessaE yeah, that's what I mean
21:23 VanessaE just pass callbacks through it
21:23 VanessaE stuff you can intercept easily
21:24 VanessaE *just* enough to give the coder some idea where the bottleneck is, if there is one to be sorted out
21:24 sapier yet I need same thing as needed for cpu quota ... us precise time ... so we need to extend api as lua usually doesn't provide that exact timings
21:25 VanessaE "plants_lib / register_on_generated : 15% CPU over 1:23:45, 25% in last 5 mins"
21:25 VanessaE etc
21:26 sapier try installing mobf enter "mobf" on console enable statistics restart and see on info tab ... that's about what I mean
21:28 VanessaE fix your screenshots in your github page :)
21:28 VanessaE https://github.com/sapier/​animals_modpack/wiki/Menu  <-- google shows a relevant image, now I see what you were talking about, but the image file actually missing from there.
21:29 sapier ah another lost image ... yes
21:29 sapier thanks I need to update
21:29 VanessaE all of the images there seem to be lost
21:29 VanessaE anyways, I see what you're getting at
21:30 VanessaE same idea as I suggested, just worded differently
21:30 sapier yes my old webspace thought it's not ok to provide android apk's from their servers
21:30 VanessaE something to allow a modder to quickly identify a bottleneck at any rate
21:31 VanessaE in fact, this sort of profiler is needed right now in minetest_game.  there's a CPU usage issue there that I have not identified yet.  Might be in the game's mods, or one of the extras used by my server.
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22:05 fu-fu minetest.forceload_block(pos), Is that a 16x16x16 block or..?
22:09 Zefram_Fysh the block that is forceloaded is a 16x16x16 mapblock
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22:13 fu-fu Zefram_Fysh: Thank you.
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