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| 10:19 |
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| 10:19 |
Kalista |
hey im having trouble compiling in msvc, I have every lib linked except leveldb and was wondering if anyone had a link to a working .lib as compiling from source is proving problematic |
| 10:33 |
Krock |
I'm building with MSVC, too |
| 10:33 |
Krock |
needa build? |
| 10:37 |
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| 10:39 |
Kalista |
not a compiled one i just need the lib to build from source |
| 10:39 |
Krock |
http://dev.minetest.net/Compiling_Minetest |
| 10:39 |
Krock |
"Compiling on Windows" |
| 10:39 |
Kalista |
i've read that, doesnt resolve the issue with leveldb unfortuantely |
| 10:40 |
Krock |
welcome to the i-can-not-compile-minetest-under-windows-with-leveldb-club |
| 10:40 |
Kalista |
lol not the answer I was hoping for dang |
| 10:41 |
Kalista |
i'll battle on for an hour or two and keep going, I have built a leveldb but am running into a link error with it |
| 10:41 |
Krock |
ask BlockMen when he gets online. He got it working..somehow |
| 10:41 |
Kalista |
ah nice |
| 10:42 |
Kalista |
are you using redis or just plain sqlite? |
| 10:43 |
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| 10:44 |
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| 10:45 |
Krock |
Kalista, plain sqlite3, it's already in the minetest folder included |
| 10:45 |
* VanessaE |
meows at sfan5 |
| 10:45 |
* sfan5 |
meows at VanessaE |
| 10:45 |
VanessaE |
bah, wrong channel |
| 10:45 |
Krock |
:P |
| 10:45 |
VanessaE |
well hi anyway. |
| 10:47 |
Krock |
interesting hw slowly some pulls get merged |
| 10:47 |
* Krock |
looks at "Update main.cpp" |
| 10:49 |
PenguinDad |
Krock: "Completely UNdescriptive commit message and this seems to work fine without the patch." |
| 10:52 |
Krock |
still, it's a fix and nothing is againstfor not merging |
| 10:55 |
Kalista |
regarding legalities of the minetest source is it all LGPL or is some of it GPL as well? finding contridicting info online |
| 10:56 |
Kalista |
looks like at some point a decision was made to make it all LGPL so just checking |
| 10:56 |
VanessaE |
Kalista: all of the code is LGPL and the textures/sounds should be CC-By-SA. |
| 10:57 |
VanessaE |
(unless some change was made that I am not aware of) |
| 10:58 |
Kalista |
ok thanks, so as far as modifying original source code, I am free to do that as long as I credit the original 'owners'? |
| 10:59 |
Kalista |
i.e: I add bullet physics, modify network code, change the GUI etc - thats fine to do as long as you credit that 'Minetest' |
| 11:00 |
Kalista |
was used much like a library? |
| 11:00 |
VanessaE |
and, if I understand how it all works, as long as you share the full sources under the same license. |
| 11:01 |
VanessaE |
(because I'm pretty sure that the changes you describe will require substantial changes to the Minetest engine code) |
| 11:01 |
Kalista |
right i'd be happy to share any mods to the orignal code but obviously not my own classes |
| 11:01 |
VanessaE |
why wouldn't you share your own code? |
| 11:01 |
celeron55 |
in most use cases (probably including yours) the LGPL will work identically to GPL |
| 11:02 |
celeron55 |
it's very hard to cheat it and very hard to judge when a cheat is legal |
| 11:02 |
Kalista |
is it avalible for license? |
| 11:02 |
VanessaE |
only in the sense that you'd have to ask all of the authors individually. |
| 11:02 |
Kalista |
or if I had licensing questions, who would be best to contact |
| 11:02 |
celeron55 |
independently of what you technically do, a judge could still just look at it and be like "you intentionally cheated the license, here is your fine" |
| 11:03 |
celeron55 |
Kalista: the copyright hasn't been owned by a single person (me) in many years |
| 11:03 |
Kalista |
I understand its a tricky minefield celeron, I want to give full credit to the project being built thanks to the Minetest community but am at a crossroads with whether it would have commercial aspects |
| 11:03 |
celeron55 |
the versions that i can license are so old that you probably aren't interested |
| 11:04 |
Krock |
TL;DR when is the serverlist fix (client) gonnamerge? |
| 11:05 |
Kalista |
I have my own voxel engine that I was working on for about 6 months, Ogre3D based with Polyvox but you guys have some amazing features that would save me at least 5 or so months additional development time |
| 11:05 |
celeron55 |
Kalista: to be clear: it *is* possible to build minetest as a library and use it from your closed source program; that specifically is what LGPL allows |
| 11:05 |
Kalista |
Right now a game developer is on my back for getting an engine out for the level guys to start making stuff in so just looking at options |
| 11:05 |
celeron55 |
if you publish whatever changes you made to the minetest source to allow it to be used like that |
| 11:06 |
Kalista |
Ok that shouldnt be a problem. |
| 11:07 |
celeron55 |
you're going to end up making weird interfaces though |
| 11:07 |
Kalista |
I'm happy to keep things transparent and commit as many changes that would help both projects, as well if need be allow our code to be reviewed by yourself but were not looking to make the stuff specific to our game public. It's pretty much just Orcs vs Humans in Minetest but hey. |
| 11:08 |
VanessaE |
if it involves MOBs in some manner, it may be useful to the general Minetest community too |
| 11:08 |
celeron55 |
like, if you want to make your own network implementation in your closed source program, you have to add an interface to the minetest-derived library that allows you to plug it in |
| 11:08 |
VanessaE |
I encourage you to share such code |
| 11:09 |
celeron55 |
which means that while it is possible, it's going to be very "backwards" 8) |
| 11:09 |
celeron55 |
i'm very interested in seeing what that can result in though, so if you think you can achieve something by doing that, please try |
| 11:10 |
Kalista |
for the networking, as it's already pretty good i'd only be adding to it and reworking some security on the server side so i'd probably just make it public rather than interfacing |
| 11:10 |
* sfan5 |
reads backlog |
| 11:11 |
celeron55 |
you also have the alternative of just pulling some code from MT and making your own library from combining them in a new structure |
| 11:11 |
celeron55 |
and publishing that as LGPL and using it from your program |
| 11:12 |
Kalista |
but sure i'll keep you updated, we've been writing mods and modified the GUI over the last few weeks and hope to have our take on Orcs v Humans in Minetest out in a few months. |
| 11:12 |
celeron55 |
either way, i'm sure some people will find your end result useful for usage in other programs |
| 11:13 |
celeron55 |
(maybe even i will end up using it 8)) |
| 11:13 |
Kalista |
http://www.Plotany.com is where you'll see it appear when we get somewhere, wont have an artist redoing all the textures till a bit later on though. |
| 11:14 |
celeron55 |
there are some closed source minded people in the MT community that may want to help you to get a library version going |
| 11:14 |
celeron55 |
they are generally hated quite a lot though so they don't talk much :-D |
| 11:15 |
Kalista |
haha no doubt ;D, if it was a personal project and not a team i'd be more happy to open source stuff but the developers/artists etc want commercialization |
| 11:16 |
Kalista |
i'll jump on the forum in the coming days, back to fixing the leveldb windows lib now *shudder* |
| 11:17 |
* Kalista |
wishes level designers knew how to use linux :P |
| 11:17 |
sfan5 |
how 'bout {,x,k}ubuntu |
| 11:18 |
Kalista |
Im *this* close to giving them usb sticks with ubuntu :P |
| 11:18 |
* sfan5 |
suggests not making them use unity |
| 11:19 |
Kalista |
Hah I dislike unity for many reasons, hence why my last two engines were in Ogre3D where I built them level editors ;) |
| 11:20 |
celeron55 |
oh nice, now you are mixing up ubuntu unity and unity3d |
| 11:20 |
Kalista |
oh right sorry ;) |
| 11:20 |
Krock |
how 'bout windows |
| 11:21 |
Kalista |
when im surrounded by people who are programming in unity3d all day its bound to happen |
| 11:21 |
Kalista |
C# makes me cringe a little inside so quick to the hate ;), albeit I'll admit it has its purpose/place for smaller apps |
| 11:37 |
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| 12:20 |
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| 12:45 |
Kalista |
well I have it building from source in vs2013 without leveldb now...might just leave it that way till I have a chat with Blockmen, dinner break time :) |
| 12:56 |
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| 12:57 |
Krock |
Kalista, if youg et it working, please tell me ;) |
| 12:58 |
PenguinDad |
Kalista: why would you need leveldb at all? |
| 13:02 |
Krock |
cuz of completeness |
| 13:03 |
PenguinDad |
Krock: in this case you would also need redis |
| 13:04 |
Krock |
PenguinDad, redis is not required at all.. |
| 13:24 |
RealBadAngel |
hi |
| 13:28 |
VanessaE |
hi |
| 13:29 |
RealBadAngel |
whats up? |
| 13:30 |
Krock |
hi |
| 13:30 |
Krock |
waiting fr some pull merges |
| 13:31 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: fix the fence rotation. :) |
| 13:32 |
RealBadAngel |
i will push it in a few minutes |
| 13:37 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/18a7e9f7af24b033028354d18cfa023b69d23f91 |
| 13:37 |
RealBadAngel |
going to merge above if there are no objections |
| 13:48 |
PenguinDad |
RealBadAngel: this fixes #1462 http://ix.io/dtY |
| 13:52 |
RealBadAngel |
but there are no differences in shading between no smooth/smooth/shaders |
| 13:52 |
VanessaE |
PenguinDad: that was already pushed. |
| 13:53 |
VanessaE |
( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f0db6c4423db86203db83538704cc34152c59a09 ) |
| 13:54 |
PenguinDad |
I know that there are no differences between the lighting modes but the EW-faces should still be brighter the NS-faces |
| 13:55 |
RealBadAngel |
which axis is E ? |
| 13:55 |
VanessaE |
X+ |
| 13:56 |
RealBadAngel |
so in fact, N (z+) is brighter now than E |
| 13:57 |
RealBadAngel |
seems logic to switch that |
| 13:57 |
VanessaE |
wait. |
| 13:57 |
VanessaE |
in order from lightest to darkest, it should probably be top, E/W, N, S, bottom |
| 13:57 |
VanessaE |
(E/W being equal) |
| 13:58 |
RealBadAngel |
hmm, what bout slightly different order: top, E, NS, W, bottom ? |
| 13:58 |
VanessaE |
(assuming northern hemisphere in the summertime) |
| 13:59 |
celeron55 |
i don't think there is a correct way |
| 13:59 |
celeron55 |
just make it so that things aren't unnecessarily dark and that it looks reasonably good |
| 14:00 |
VanessaE |
c55 is probably right. Until we have lighting that follows the sun/moon, any reasonable pattern will probably be okay |
| 14:00 |
RealBadAngel |
so VE's order? |
| 14:04 |
Krock |
server list broken again? |
| 14:05 |
* Krock |
tries to erase the previous message |
| 14:16 |
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| 14:37 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, VanessaE http://i.imgur.com/maTtGH2.png |
| 14:37 |
RealBadAngel |
this is with W darker a bit |
| 14:37 |
VanessaE |
seems fine to me. |
| 14:37 |
celeron55 |
i think it's too dark |
| 14:38 |
VanessaE |
how's the bottom look? |
| 14:40 |
VanessaE |
dafuq? RealBadAngel whatever you did just made my view range skyrocket. 45-50 fps, 240m... and I'm crypto mining on the same card, too. WTF?! |
| 14:40 |
PenguinDad |
I agree that W is too dark |
| 14:41 |
VanessaE |
(not that I'm complaining ;) ) |
| 14:45 |
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| 14:47 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, mapblock_mesh code did that, i can also play with much larger view distances |
| 14:51 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: perhaps, but it didn't seem to have nearly as much effect before. |
| 14:56 |
RealBadAngel |
i was talking bout that since start, it was the most noticeable effect for me |
| 14:58 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, are you ok now with the fences? |
| 14:58 |
VanessaE |
yep |
| 14:58 |
VanessaE |
they seem fine now |
| 14:58 |
VanessaE |
simple and complex nodeboxes seem fine as well from a cursory look as well |
| 14:58 |
VanessaE |
s/fine as well/fine/ |
| 14:59 |
RealBadAngel |
ok |
| 15:00 |
RealBadAngel |
so about faces, we just switch pairs and we stay with same levels, right? |
| 15:02 |
* VanessaE |
shrugs |
| 15:02 |
PenguinDad |
RealBadAngel: so just the patch I linked |
| 15:03 |
RealBadAngel |
i guess so |
| 15:27 |
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| 15:28 |
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| 15:33 |
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| 15:40 |
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| 15:44 |
paramat |
okay good #1462 was fixed recently so i'll close my issue. Minetest is not real life, sun goes overhead from E to W so on average NS pairs are equal, EW pairs are equal, order from brightest to darkest should be top, EW, NS, bottom |
| 15:47 |
paramat |
^ RealBadAngel |
| 15:49 |
PenguinDad |
just commit my patch and you're done with that |
| 15:58 |
paramat |
re-reading logs ... actually i'll close my issue when EW faces are made brighter than NS. this screenshot demonstrates that the brighter horizontal faces give the impression of facing EW and the path of the sun (if you ignore the sun being overhead in this skybox) http://i.imgur.com/UZPpll6.png |
| 16:13 |
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| 17:20 |
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| 17:50 |
Megaf |
I'm going to run to minetest servers on my ODroid, Let's see how well will that work |
| 17:58 |
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| 18:02 |
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| 18:02 |
ShadowNinja |
Krock: Do NOT use the bundled SQLite3, it's several years old. |
| 18:02 |
Krock |
ShadowNinja, update it then. please |
| 18:03 |
Krock |
or is that not possible? |
| 18:04 |
Krock |
btw, it runs fine so far :) |
| 18:06 |
ShadowNinja |
Krock: Sure it's possible, but it shouldn't be included in the first place. Nobody uses it anyway (or at least they shouldn't) since it defaults to a system installation. |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
ShadowNinja, well, I set no sqlite folder and *.lib file - therefore I think, it uses the included sqlite |
| 18:08 |
ShadowNinja |
Krock: Well, your build does. |
| 18:09 |
Krock |
ShadowNinja, would it be possible for you to add a cmake option to specify where sqlite is? |
| 18:09 |
Calinou |
Minetest seems to perform better than before indeed: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9790&p=149002#p149002 |
| 18:14 |
ShadowNinja |
Krock: http://sprunge.us/MTOd |
| 18:17 |
Krock |
ShadowNinja, yes but I don't get any option in cmake-gui |
| 18:19 |
Krock |
mark_as_advanced(SQLITE3_INCLUDE_DIR SQLITE3_LIBRARY) |
| 18:19 |
Krock |
I see... |
| 18:29 |
* Krock |
now uses a newer sqlite3 cuz he didn't see the checkbox "advanced" |
| 18:35 |
sfan5 |
ShadowNinja: all of my builds use the integrated sqlite3 |
| 18:35 |
sfan5 |
and nobody told me that it's old |
| 18:36 |
Krock |
gonna write a pull request for this if my sqlite3 verison works |
| 18:37 |
Krock |
horray! build from scratch after chaing cmake things |
| 18:37 |
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| 18:37 |
Krock |
-i+ing |
| 18:43 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, ShadowNinja are you ok with switching faces shading? make E (x+) brighter instead of N |
| 18:44 |
sapier |
why? |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-07-20#i_3822787 |
| 18:48 |
sapier |
is what you suggest really better or just different? |
| 18:49 |
RealBadAngel |
sun just follow the path E-W not N-S |
| 18:49 |
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| 18:50 |
RealBadAngel |
its simple switch which sides are brighter |
| 18:51 |
sapier |
so no real benefit? |
| 18:51 |
RealBadAngel |
cosmetic change |
| 18:52 |
sapier |
did you know sun follows n-w on southern hemisphere? ;-) |
| 18:52 |
sapier |
wait enw |
| 18:52 |
sapier |
not north s |
| 18:53 |
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| 18:53 |
PenguinDad |
sapier: but in minetest the sun just goes from E to W |
| 18:54 |
Zefram_Fysh |
the first people to circumnavigate Africa were disbelieved in Europe upon their return, because they reported that around the south coast of Africa they'd seen the sun in the north at noon, which all learned Europeans knew was impossible |
| 18:54 |
sfan5 |
Zefram_Fysh: wrong channel |
| 18:54 |
sapier |
hmm I don't understand reason for this change as it's just switch from a to b with b beeing same quality as a |
| 18:55 |
Zefram_Fysh |
sfan5: seemed relevant to the confusion about the path the sun takes in the sky |
| 18:56 |
sapier |
well it is quite interesting to see sun in north ;-) I experienced this my self some years ago |
| 18:57 |
sapier |
still I'll not agree to that change, and I wont discuss about it any further, you're free to find someone else to agree |
| 18:57 |
Zefram_Fysh |
possibly the Minetest sun should configurably (per-world) be able to appear somewhat north or south of the zenith at noon |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
this is anyway temporary |
| 18:58 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, so no point to resist |
| 18:59 |
sapier |
if it's temporary only even less reason to do it |
| 18:59 |
sapier |
changing just to keep it changing constantly is silly |
| 18:59 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean that will be changed with hardware lights, no not so soon ;) |
| 18:59 |
PenguinDad |
sapier: temporary can be longer than you think ;) |
| 19:00 |
sapier |
if you want to fix it fix it right once and not add some cripled interim version |
| 19:00 |
RealBadAngel |
meanwhile no reason why not having right one |
| 19:00 |
sapier |
because it's not right but just different |
| 19:01 |
PenguinDad |
<celeron55> i don't think there is a correct way |
| 19:02 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: just how difficult would it be to just shift the lighting to follow the sun? |
| 19:02 |
VanessaE |
(and moon) |
| 19:03 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, it is right. sun is fixed to EW, NS faces are brighter -> FAIL |
| 19:03 |
sapier |
vanessaE how strange will it look like if nodes in mine change light according to sun |
| 19:04 |
sapier |
there's no "right" shading for nodes below ground |
| 19:04 |
sapier |
this isn't related to sun at all |
| 19:04 |
RealBadAngel |
well, somehow related |
| 19:04 |
sapier |
it's just some way to improve 3d effect |
| 19:04 |
VanessaE |
sapier: I'm sure we can come up with a reasonable way to determine if a node is receiving sunlight. |
| 19:05 |
Zefram_Fysh |
isn't the light parameter value is 15 for sunlight, whereas it's at most 14 for artificial light? |
| 19:05 |
sapier |
I hope, but I don't wanna see some other strange thing like waving water |
| 19:05 |
VanessaE |
Zefram_Fysh: exactly what I Was thinking. |
| 19:05 |
sapier |
it's great for ocean but once you build first fountain it's just crazy |
| 19:06 |
VanessaE |
if light value is 15, apply a sunlight shader to it. |
| 19:06 |
sapier |
sorry RealBadAngel |
| 19:06 |
sapier |
sometimes not having a feature at all is better then having a half implemented feature |
| 19:08 |
RealBadAngel |
we already have it, why not having it a bit more correct? |
| 19:09 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, for water we need 2 kinds of it, we talked bout it before |
| 19:09 |
sapier |
it's only you to believe it be "more correct" ... that's as believing floor should be green |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, just run the game look at the sun |
| 19:10 |
sapier |
I know RealBadAngel but you didn't do any work towards it |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
and see which faces are brighter |
| 19:10 |
sapier |
and you dig a whole and see if it doesn matter at all which faces are more bright |
| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
it maybe cosmetic change but its worth label "BUG" |
| 19:11 |
Calinou |
http://0bin.net/paste/f86h+7ND0QnZo+BY#9ndO4CWjEvVpTaOdbtOrXvRXYQC8Rj5lLNnOmlWV8x2 → same groups, but the Meze is longer to dig and can't be dug with wooden or stone pickaxe, why? |
| 19:11 |
sapier |
no it isn't |
| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc it is |
| 19:11 |
sapier |
no matter what you do the shading will at best be correct for exactly 1/4th of day |
| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
dont use that effect underground is different story |
| 19:11 |
sapier |
you just change it to another quarter of day |
| 19:12 |
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Krock joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:12 |
RealBadAngel |
i can code that, but then you will again complain im mixing stuff in commits |
| 19:12 |
sapier |
no you can't code that because if all nodes change shading over days we'll have same insane effect like waving ... with the big difference you can't even disable it |
| 19:13 |
RealBadAngel |
so i want the change to be done in single cosmetic commit, my bad i havent coded that such way since begining |
| 19:14 |
sapier |
just to be sure we're not talking about different things what are you talking about with "I can code" ;-) |
| 19:15 |
sapier |
I'm fully with you if you're talking about hardware lighting but if you meant what I just said don't even waste time on it |
| 19:17 |
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Krock joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:31 |
Zefram_Fysh |
I have a bunch of patches for minetest_game. someone please look at them with a view to either applying or turning them into pull requests |
| 19:31 |
Zefram_Fysh |
[PATCH] Retain sign text when editing is aborted by <esc> -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/retain_sign_text |
| 19:31 |
Zefram_Fysh |
[PATCH] Show filled buckets in creative inventory -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/filled_buckets_visible |
| 19:31 |
Zefram_Fysh |
[PATCH] Consistently use group:stick in tool recipes -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/tool_stick_group |
| 19:32 |
Zefram_Fysh |
[PATCH] Improve message about screwdriver control -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/screwdriver_mode_message |
| 19:32 |
sapier |
you should talk to blockmen about minetest_game |
| 19:32 |
Zefram_Fysh |
*** blockmen: No such nick/channel |
| 19:32 |
sapier |
true he's not here today |
| 19:33 |
Krock |
blockmen test |
| 19:33 |
sfan5 |
Zefram_Fysh: would be good if you could create pulls for those |
| 19:33 |
Zefram_Fysh |
[PATCH] Make open trapdoor climbable -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/trapdoor_climbable |
| 19:33 |
sfan5 |
otherwise we are likely to forget about them |
| 19:33 |
Krock |
such spam |
| 19:33 |
Krock |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1505 |
| 19:34 |
Zefram_Fysh |
would be good if github made it possible to submit pull requests without having an account and agreeing to odious terms |
| 19:34 |
Zefram_Fysh |
[PATCH] Pair door with door of any type -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/promiscuous_door_pairing |
| 19:34 |
sapier |
Zefram_Fysh: this is wrong channel for mintest_game ;-) |
| 19:34 |
Zefram_Fysh |
bah |
| 19:34 |
Zefram_Fysh |
which channel is right? |
| 19:34 |
Krock |
none :D |
| 19:35 |
* Krock |
gives Zefram_Fysh https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game |
| 19:35 |
Zefram_Fysh |
what about it? |
| 19:35 |
Krock |
there you can post your pull requests |
| 19:35 |
Zefram_Fysh |
how? |
| 19:36 |
Krock |
ah I see, you don't use github |
| 19:42 |
VanessaE |
Zefram_Fysh: you're gonna have to sign up with github soon you know. |
| 19:43 |
Calinou |
make an account as anonymous as possible, I guess |
| 19:43 |
Calinou |
not really allowed, but you probably won't be sued for it |
| 19:43 |
VanessaE |
not doing so only makes it incredibly inconvenient for everyone else |
| 19:43 |
Calinou |
or even have your account closed by staff |
| 19:44 |
Zefram_Fysh |
I'm not going to sign up with github while its terms are as they are now |
| 19:45 |
Zefram_Fysh |
it's not about anonymity |
| 19:47 |
Krock |
Calinou, as anonymous? I didn't even use my real email address there.. |
| 19:53 |
* Krock |
hides |
| 20:01 |
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OldCoder joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:10 |
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paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:16 |
celeron55 |
i just looked up github's terms of service and privacy policy |
| 20:16 |
celeron55 |
they are pretty reasonable for a free internet service |
| 20:16 |
celeron55 |
but whatever, i assume you wouldn't use anything but email then |
| 20:17 |
Zefram_Fysh |
they say that changes to terms are effe4ctive immediately, as soon as one uses the service after new terms are posted |
| 20:17 |
Zefram_Fysh |
which means that one can't use github without ostensibly agreeing to new terms that one hasn't had a chance to see |
| 20:17 |
Zefram_Fysh |
I'm not willing to agree to terms I haven't seen |
| 20:17 |
celeron55 |
"If GitHub makes material changes to these Terms, we will notify you by email or by posting a notice on our site before the changes are effective." |
| 20:17 |
celeron55 |
this contradicts with what you just said |
| 20:18 |
Zefram_Fysh |
"posting a notice on our site" doesn't mean you actually see it. it's not real notice |
| 20:18 |
celeron55 |
well okay, that is a bit too sloppy from their side |
| 20:19 |
Zefram_Fysh |
no matter how often you look at the terms page, there's always an opportunity for them to post new terms after you last looked and before you next use the service |
| 20:19 |
celeron55 |
i have seen almost everyone do it this way though |
| 20:20 |
celeron55 |
i guess they are afraid that regular users would consider those emails to be spam |
| 20:20 |
Zefram_Fysh |
it'd be easy for them to avoid pulling such crap. the minimum change required is a waiting period between new terms being posted and becoming effective. gitorious, for example, has such a waiting period |
| 20:20 |
celeron55 |
and, frankly, that's what people generally would consider them to be |
| 20:20 |
celeron55 |
that's true |
| 20:21 |
Zefram_Fysh |
with a waiting period, one can have a cron job regularly check the terms and bring changes to one's attention, giving one a reasonable opportunity to review them and to stop using the service before any unacceptable term becomes effective |
| 20:21 |
celeron55 |
maybe you could ask them? |
| 20:21 |
celeron55 |
i guess they like to read the feedback they receive |
| 20:21 |
Zefram_Fysh |
github doesn't look very open to negotiation. there's a lot of other lawyer-derived crap in their terms too |
| 20:22 |
celeron55 |
you can't expect any kind of fast changes but if enough people ask it, at least they know why some people don't use their site; especially if you tell the comparison to gitorious |
| 20:23 |
celeron55 |
after all they've written support github.com all over the place |
| 20:23 |
paramat |
sapier, i'll explain RBA's proposed faces shading change that RBA, PenguinDad and myself agree is better: sun in MT goes directly overhead from E to W, if you time-average illumination of faces over a day, which is the only way to resolve this, EW faces should be brighter than NS faces, with EW faces equal and NS faces equal. this is how MT 0.4.10 stable is but was accidently reversed 3 days ago in RBA's commit, he ju |
| 20:23 |
paramat |
st wants to correct this, please see my earlier posts today in minetest-dev channel. can some other dev please agree to this? |
| 20:24 |
celeron55 |
Zefram_Fysh: anyway, you probably understand that this project won't move anywhere and can't really change its practices for you |
| 20:25 |
Zefram_Fysh |
I might do that. haven't really considered it so far because the service that github supplies isn't basically attractive to me. I have no need for someone else to host my git repos. the only reason why the possibility of me getting a github account comes up is because other people want me to put stuff on github for their convenience, and that's really between *them* and github |
| 20:26 |
Zefram_Fysh |
I understand that any particular github-hosted project is unlikely to stop using github because of my issues with it, and I've never asked them to. and it's their right to refuse to accept my patches merely because I don't put them on github, though that would suck mightily |
| 20:27 |
sapier |
Zefram_Fysh: they're not refused it's just about being quite uncomfortable for us to merge them thus you'll have to be patient for someone to merge it |
| 20:27 |
Zefram_Fysh |
I am, aside from refusing github, flexible about the forms in which I'm willing to supply patches. a branch on my own git repo is a starting point, meant to be easy for git users (at github or elsewhere), but I'm also willing to email a diff, pastebin a diff, or potentially do other things |
| 20:28 |
celeron55 |
for the record, i'm now reading bitbucket's policies for comparison; it kind of seems that for paid accounts, they consider the terms to be static during each subscription term (which seems to be one month), which is interesting |
| 20:28 |
celeron55 |
(i hope someone will take care of linking or posting your stuff on github) |
| 20:29 |
celeron55 |
but for free accounts, it's clearly the same as for github |
| 20:29 |
Zefram_Fysh |
sapier: patience I have. my concern in pushing a patch is to make sure it gets into the process at all, not to impart any sense of urgency about it |
| 20:30 |
Zefram_Fysh |
though I note you processed my recent engine patches rather quickly, no patience required on my side. thanks |
| 20:30 |
sfan5 |
Zefram_Fysh: if possible, patched with git format-patch |
| 20:30 |
sfan5 |
makes many things easier |
| 20:30 |
sapier |
"the process" is github if you don't wanna use it it's always outside |
| 20:31 |
Zefram_Fysh |
sfan5: I do indeed use git-format-patch when I'm emailing or pastebinning a patch |
| 20:31 |
RealBadAngel |
sfan5, celeron55 are you ok with change faces shading for E-W pair be brighter? |
| 20:32 |
sapier |
Zefram_Fysh: I don't have a problem with merging your minetest pulls every now and then but I wont to this for minetest_game as I usually don't change things there |
| 20:33 |
sfan5 |
RealBadAngel: as long as it does not make things look worse, yes |
| 20:33 |
paramat |
"forum.minetest.net uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate expired on 20/07/14 21:19" |
| 20:33 |
sfan5 |
Fehlertyp: HSTS failure |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
sfan5: that's not really an answer ;-) |
| 20:34 |
sfan5 |
go bug xyz about that |
| 20:34 |
celeron55 |
actually, bitbucket's privacy policy isn't written in this way; so it sucks too |
| 20:34 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, and how about you? |
| 20:34 |
* sfan5 |
suggests self-hosting git (e.g. gitlab) |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: i don't think i want to focus on this enough to make a proper decision |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
i am concerned about it looking worse than currently |
| 20:36 |
RealBadAngel |
it cant look any worse, just another pair will be brighter, its a simple switch |
| 20:36 |
sapier |
it can't look any better either RealBadAngel |
| 20:36 |
celeron55 |
because if you see the sun, then you see the sides of nodes that aren't facing the sun, and you expect them to be dark; if you don't see the sun, then you don't know where the sun is and the faces facing you can be anything |
| 20:36 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc it can look better when you will look at sun position |
| 20:36 |
sfan5 |
Zefram_Fysh: if you want your patches to be noticed please provide .patch files (pastebinned to something like sprunge.us) soon |
| 20:37 |
sapier |
but sun isn't at same position all day so it's gonna be wrong anyway |
| 20:37 |
RealBadAngel |
we are talking about pairs |
| 20:37 |
sfan5 |
paramat: chrome won't even let me connect because os HSTS |
| 20:37 |
sapier |
why do you wanna link things (3d effect shading) to something not related at all (sun position) |
| 20:37 |
RealBadAngel |
so x+ and x- will be brighter, the same line as sun goes |
| 20:38 |
paramat |
yeah firefox has blocked me from the forum, trying to override :) |
| 20:38 |
sapier |
I don't wanna have my mine lighted by sun |
| 20:38 |
celeron55 |
so because what i said, the sides EW should be dark, so that if you see the sun, you expect the sun to cast a shadow behind the node, so it should be dark |
| 20:38 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, i said i can code that, if node is not lit by sun, disable the shading or apply another kind |
| 20:39 |
celeron55 |
if you see the node from the sun's side (whichever position the sun is at), you don't see the sun and it won't seem weird because of that |
| 20:39 |
celeron55 |
i don't know if it works like this in practice, but this is my concern |
| 20:39 |
sapier |
if you do something as silly as waving fountains for light I'm gonna revert it ... I never did revert something from someone else but that will be the first time ;-) |
| 20:40 |
paramat |
yes celeron's shadow argument there is something that occured to me too |
| 20:41 |
sapier |
problem with shading is in best case it's gonna be wrong half day only |
| 20:41 |
Krock |
okay. gotblocked from the forums now, too |
| 20:42 |
sapier |
and then it's gonna look like its supposed to be correct but we didn't manage to do it really correct |
| 20:42 |
paramat |
but http://i.imgur.com/UZPpll6.png shows how the brighter faces suggest sun in that direction |
| 20:42 |
sfan5 |
Krock: thats not blocked but your browser protecting your |
| 20:42 |
sfan5 |
-r |
| 20:42 |
Krock |
ah. nice browser |
| 20:45 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, this is just cosmetic change, not some weird gfx effect :P |
| 20:46 |
sapier |
to me it's just a "change" not even cosmetic and in no way better then before ... so explain to me WHY change something for sake of change |
| 20:46 |
RealBadAngel |
to make it look more right |
| 20:46 |
sapier |
you say yourself it's not gonna be correct |
| 20:47 |
sapier |
why is it supposed to be more right? |
| 20:47 |
RealBadAngel |
jeez, because of sun.... |
| 20:47 |
sapier |
sun isn't fixed in south |
| 20:47 |
RealBadAngel |
now faces FACING sun are darker, for christ sake |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
what south?? |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
sun path is along X axis |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
so faces along x should be brighter too |
| 20:48 |
sapier |
ok so if you change it'll look like rising moon being more bright then setting sun ... great imrpovement |
| 20:49 |
RealBadAngel |
damn, what are you talking about?? |
| 20:50 |
Zefram_Fysh |
sfan5: patch files at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408901 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408902 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408903 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408904 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408905 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408906 |
| 20:50 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: no matter where you place the "bright" node side it's gonna be wrong half day |
| 20:50 |
RealBadAngel |
half day is better than all time wrong :P |
| 20:51 |
sapier |
that's your opinion |
| 20:51 |
RealBadAngel |
and when switched NS pair will be lit correctly |
| 20:51 |
sapier |
Imho it's better to not even make it look like it's supposed to be correct |
| 20:51 |
RealBadAngel |
all the ttime |
| 20:51 |
Zefram_Fysh |
being obviously wrong for half the day sounds worse to me than being indistinct all the time |
| 20:52 |
RealBadAngel |
damn it, coding switch lighting at noon |
| 20:52 |
RealBadAngel |
you wont rise that any more |
| 20:52 |
sapier |
great it's cool sun penetrating 1000m of solid rock to lighten up a mine |
| 20:53 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier i said thats a different story :P |
| 20:53 |
RealBadAngel |
i will also add that to that commit |
| 20:53 |
RealBadAngel |
and please no comments about mixed content |
| 20:53 |
PenguinDad |
let's make all node faces have the same brightness |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
no that's not different, that's same as your waving puddles |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
it may look better for some situations but looking horrible in others |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
I prefere solutions looking acceptable in all situations |
| 20:54 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, for puddles i said what i need. 2 kinds of water nodes |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
then do this first and don't expect others to fix things you proke |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
broke |
| 20:55 |
RealBadAngel |
im not doing in mapgens |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
if your change doesn't work without other fixes it's not a thing to be merged ... same for lighting, as long as there's no solution for lighting below ground or in closed rooms changing node shading dynamicaly is crap |
| 20:56 |
RealBadAngel |
mg should create oceans using ocean water, rivers and lakes with still water |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
tell this hmmmm and help him implement it |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
I like the waves on shore but right now I always disable it after a view minutes because it's just to wired |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
weired |
| 21:11 |
sfan5 |
Zefram_Fysh: ok, added them https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues |
| 21:11 |
Zefram_Fysh |
thanks |
| 21:11 |
paramat |
perhaps a solution is to lessen the brightness difference between EW and NS faces, have both pairs fairly dark, increases the 3D effect and decreases the problems we are arguing about :) BTW MT 0.4.10 stable has EW faces brighter with smooth lighting on so that can be tested |
| 21:18 |
paramat |
looks like xyz will fix security cert soon :) |
| 21:18 |
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| 21:32 |
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| 21:34 |
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| 22:01 |
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loggingbot_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:01 |
|
Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/ |
| 22:05 |
VanessaE |
use the screwdriver to toggle said flag. |
| 22:06 |
Zefram_Fysh |
the screwdriver can't point at liquids |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
in case the player is trying to build an artificial lake. |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
Zefram_Fysh: it can be changed I'm sure. |
| 22:06 |
Zefram_Fysh |
maybe a different tool, but having the flag there doesn't sound great to me |
