Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-07-20

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:19 khonkhortisan joined #minetest-dev
00:23 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
00:42 nore_ joined #minetest-dev
01:11 domtron joined #minetest-dev
01:21 nore_ joined #minetest-dev
01:28 Taoki joined #minetest-dev
01:29 Eater4 joined #minetest-dev
02:07 cheapie joined #minetest-dev
02:45 AnotherBrick joined #minetest-dev
03:09 cheapie joined #minetest-dev
03:42 domtron joined #minetest-dev
04:03 Eater4 joined #minetest-dev
04:47 SoniEx2 joined #minetest-dev
04:57 alexxs joined #minetest-dev
05:27 CraigyDavi` joined #minetest-dev
05:29 CraigyDavi`` joined #minetest-dev
05:41 CraigyDavi joined #minetest-dev
05:55 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
06:17 CraigyDavi` joined #minetest-dev
06:19 CraigyDavi`` joined #minetest-dev
06:27 smoke_fumus joined #minetest-dev
06:27 CraigyDavi` joined #minetest-dev
07:22 Eater4 joined #minetest-dev
07:42 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
08:25 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
08:36 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
08:42 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
08:48 alexxs joined #minetest-dev
09:09 Krock joined #minetest-dev
09:14 grrk-bzzt joined #minetest-dev
09:49 LemonLake joined #minetest-dev
10:06 vifino joined #minetest-dev
10:08 PenguinDad joined #minetest-dev
10:19 Kalista joined #minetest-dev
10:19 Kalista hey im having trouble compiling in msvc, I have every lib linked except leveldb and was wondering if anyone had a link to a working .lib as compiling from source is proving problematic
10:33 Krock I'm building with MSVC, too
10:33 Krock needa build?
10:37 kahrl joined #minetest-dev
10:39 Kalista not a compiled one i just need the lib to build from source
10:39 Krock http://dev.minetest.net/Compiling_Minetest
10:39 Krock "Compiling on Windows"
10:39 Kalista i've read that, doesnt resolve the issue with leveldb unfortuantely
10:40 Krock welcome to the i-can-not-compile-minetest-un​der-windows-with-leveldb-club
10:40 Kalista lol not the answer I was hoping for dang
10:41 Kalista i'll battle on for an hour or two and keep going, I have built a leveldb but am running into a link error with it
10:41 Krock ask BlockMen when he gets online. He got it working..somehow
10:41 Kalista ah nice
10:42 Kalista are you using redis or just plain sqlite?
10:43 sfan5 joined #minetest-dev
10:44 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
10:45 Krock Kalista, plain sqlite3, it's already in the minetest folder included
10:45 * VanessaE meows at sfan5
10:45 * sfan5 meows at VanessaE
10:45 VanessaE bah, wrong channel
10:45 Krock :P
10:45 VanessaE well hi anyway.
10:47 Krock interesting hw slowly some pulls get merged
10:47 * Krock looks at "Update main.cpp"
10:49 PenguinDad Krock: "Completely UNdescriptive commit message and this seems to work fine without the patch."
10:52 Krock still, it's a fix and nothing is againstfor not merging
10:55 Kalista regarding legalities of the minetest source is it all LGPL or is some of it GPL as well? finding contridicting info online
10:56 Kalista looks like at some point a decision was made to make it all LGPL so just checking
10:56 VanessaE Kalista: all of the code is LGPL and the textures/sounds should be CC-By-SA.
10:57 VanessaE (unless some change was made that I am not aware of)
10:58 Kalista ok thanks, so as far as modifying original source code, I am free to do that as long as I credit the original 'owners'?
10:59 Kalista i.e: I add bullet physics, modify network code, change the GUI etc - thats fine to do as long as you credit that 'Minetest'
11:00 Kalista was used much like a library?
11:00 VanessaE and, if I understand how it all works, as long as you share the full sources under the same license.
11:01 VanessaE (because I'm pretty sure that the changes you describe will require substantial changes to the Minetest engine code)
11:01 Kalista right i'd be happy to share any mods to the orignal code but obviously not my own classes
11:01 VanessaE why wouldn't you share your own code?
11:01 celeron55 in most use cases (probably including yours) the LGPL will work identically to GPL
11:02 celeron55 it's very hard to cheat it and very hard to judge when a cheat is legal
11:02 Kalista is it avalible for license?
11:02 VanessaE only in the sense that you'd have to ask all of the authors individually.
11:02 Kalista or if I had licensing questions, who would be best to contact
11:02 celeron55 independently of what you technically do, a judge could still just look at it and be like "you intentionally cheated the license, here is your fine"
11:03 celeron55 Kalista: the copyright hasn't been owned by a single person (me) in many years
11:03 Kalista I understand its a tricky minefield celeron, I want to give full credit to the project being built thanks to the Minetest community but am at a crossroads with whether it would have commercial aspects
11:03 celeron55 the versions that i can license are so old that you probably aren't interested
11:04 Krock TL;DR when is the serverlist fix (client) gonnamerge?
11:05 Kalista I have my own voxel engine that I was working on for about 6 months, Ogre3D based with Polyvox but you guys have some amazing features that would save me at least 5 or so months additional development time
11:05 celeron55 Kalista: to be clear: it *is* possible to build minetest as a library and use it from your closed source program; that specifically is what LGPL allows
11:05 Kalista Right now a game developer is on my back for getting an engine out for the level guys to start making stuff in so just looking at options
11:05 celeron55 if you publish whatever changes you made to the minetest source to allow it to be used like that
11:06 Kalista Ok that shouldnt be a problem.
11:07 celeron55 you're going to end up making weird interfaces though
11:07 Kalista I'm happy to keep things transparent and commit as many changes that would help both projects, as well if need be allow our code to be reviewed by yourself but were not looking to make the stuff specific to our game public. It's pretty much just Orcs vs Humans in Minetest but hey.
11:08 VanessaE if it involves MOBs in some manner, it may be useful to the general Minetest community too
11:08 celeron55 like, if you want to make your own network implementation in your closed source program, you have to add an interface to the minetest-derived library that allows you to plug it in
11:08 VanessaE I encourage you to share such code
11:09 celeron55 which means that while it is possible, it's going to be very "backwards" 8)
11:09 celeron55 i'm very interested in seeing what that can result in though, so if you think you can achieve something by doing that, please try
11:10 Kalista for the networking, as it's already pretty good i'd only be adding to it and reworking some security on the server side so i'd probably just make it public rather than interfacing
11:10 * sfan5 reads backlog
11:11 celeron55 you also have the alternative of just pulling some code from MT and making your own library from combining them in a new structure
11:11 celeron55 and publishing that as LGPL and using it from your program
11:12 Kalista but sure i'll keep you updated, we've been writing mods and modified the GUI over the last few weeks and hope to have our take on Orcs v Humans in Minetest out in a few months.
11:12 celeron55 either way, i'm sure some people will find your end result useful for usage in other programs
11:13 celeron55 (maybe even i will end up using it 8))
11:13 Kalista http://www.Plotany.com is where you'll see it appear when we get somewhere, wont have an artist redoing all the textures till a bit later on though.
11:14 celeron55 there are some closed source minded people in the MT community that may want to help you to get a library version going
11:14 celeron55 they are generally hated quite a lot though so they don't talk much :-D
11:15 Kalista haha no doubt ;D, if it was a personal project and not a team i'd be more happy to open source stuff but the developers/artists etc want commercialization
11:16 Kalista i'll jump on the forum in the coming days, back to fixing the leveldb windows lib now *shudder*
11:17 * Kalista wishes level designers knew how to use linux :P
11:17 sfan5 how 'bout {,x,k}ubuntu
11:18 Kalista Im *this* close to giving them usb sticks with ubuntu :P
11:18 * sfan5 suggests not making them use unity
11:19 Kalista Hah I dislike unity for many reasons, hence why my last two engines were in Ogre3D where I built them level editors ;)
11:20 celeron55 oh nice, now you are mixing up ubuntu unity and unity3d
11:20 Kalista oh right sorry ;)
11:20 Krock how 'bout windows
11:21 Kalista when im surrounded by people who are programming in unity3d all day its bound to happen
11:21 Kalista C# makes me cringe a little inside so quick to the hate ;), albeit I'll admit it has its purpose/place for smaller apps
11:37 talas joined #minetest-dev
12:20 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
12:45 Kalista well I have it building from source in vs2013 without leveldb now...might just leave it that way till I have a chat with Blockmen, dinner break time :)
12:56 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
12:57 Krock Kalista, if youg et it working, please tell me ;)
12:58 PenguinDad Kalista: why would you need leveldb at all?
13:02 Krock cuz of completeness
13:03 PenguinDad Krock: in this case you would also need redis
13:04 Krock PenguinDad, redis is not required at all..
13:24 RealBadAngel hi
13:28 VanessaE hi
13:29 RealBadAngel whats up?
13:30 Krock hi
13:30 Krock waiting fr some pull merges
13:31 VanessaE RealBadAngel: fix the fence rotation. :)
13:32 RealBadAngel i will push it in a few minutes
13:37 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/com​mit/18a7e9f7af24b033028354d18cfa023b69d23f91
13:37 RealBadAngel going to merge above if there are no objections
13:48 PenguinDad RealBadAngel: this fixes #1462 http://ix.io/dtY
13:52 RealBadAngel but there are no differences in shading between no smooth/smooth/shaders
13:52 VanessaE PenguinDad: that was already pushed.
13:53 VanessaE ( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/f0db6c4423db86203db83538704cc34152c59a09 )
13:54 PenguinDad I know that there are no differences between the lighting modes but the EW-faces should still be brighter the NS-faces
13:55 RealBadAngel which axis is E ?
13:55 VanessaE X+
13:56 RealBadAngel so in fact, N (z+) is brighter now than E
13:57 RealBadAngel seems logic to switch that
13:57 VanessaE wait.
13:57 VanessaE in order from lightest to darkest, it should probably be top, E/W, N, S, bottom
13:57 VanessaE (E/W being equal)
13:58 RealBadAngel hmm, what bout slightly different order: top, E, NS, W, bottom ?
13:58 VanessaE (assuming northern hemisphere in the summertime)
13:59 celeron55 i don't think there is a correct way
13:59 celeron55 just make it so that things aren't unnecessarily dark and that it looks reasonably good
14:00 VanessaE c55 is probably right.  Until we have lighting that follows the sun/moon, any reasonable pattern will probably be okay
14:00 RealBadAngel so VE's order?
14:04 Krock server list broken again?
14:05 * Krock tries to erase the previous message
14:16 Megaf joined #minetest-dev
14:37 RealBadAngel celeron55, VanessaE http://i.imgur.com/maTtGH2.png
14:37 RealBadAngel this is with W darker a bit
14:37 VanessaE seems fine to me.
14:37 celeron55 i think it's too dark
14:38 VanessaE how's the bottom look?
14:40 VanessaE dafuq?  RealBadAngel whatever you did just made my view range skyrocket.  45-50 fps, 240m...  and I'm crypto mining on the same card, too.  WTF?!
14:40 PenguinDad I agree that W is too dark
14:41 VanessaE (not that I'm complaining ;) )
14:45 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
14:47 RealBadAngel VanessaE, mapblock_mesh code did that, i can also play with much larger view distances
14:51 VanessaE RealBadAngel: perhaps, but it didn't seem to have nearly as much effect before.
14:56 RealBadAngel i was talking bout that since start, it was the most noticeable effect for me
14:58 RealBadAngel btw, are you ok now with the fences?
14:58 VanessaE yep
14:58 VanessaE they seem fine now
14:58 VanessaE simple and complex nodeboxes seem fine as well from a cursory look as well
14:58 VanessaE s/fine as well/fine/
14:59 RealBadAngel ok
15:00 RealBadAngel so about faces, we just switch pairs and we stay with same levels, right?
15:02 * VanessaE shrugs
15:02 PenguinDad RealBadAngel: so just the patch I linked
15:03 RealBadAngel i guess so
15:27 PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev
15:28 werwerwer joined #minetest-dev
15:28 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
15:33 grrk-bzzt joined #minetest-dev
15:33 grrk-bzzt joined #minetest-dev
15:40 paramat joined #minetest-dev
15:44 paramat okay good #1462 was fixed recently so i'll close my issue. Minetest is not real life, sun goes overhead from E to W so on average NS pairs are equal, EW pairs are equal, order from brightest to darkest should be top, EW, NS, bottom
15:47 paramat ^ RealBadAngel
15:49 PenguinDad just commit my patch and you're done with that
15:58 paramat re-reading logs ... actually i'll close my issue when EW faces are made brighter than NS. this screenshot demonstrates that the brighter horizontal faces give the impression of facing EW and the path of the sun (if you ignore the sun being overhead in this skybox) http://i.imgur.com/UZPpll6.png
16:13 zat joined #minetest-dev
16:55 Jordach joined #minetest-dev
17:18 CheapSeth joined #minetest-dev
17:18 CheapSeth left #minetest-dev
17:20 paramat left #minetest-dev
17:50 Megaf I'm going to run to minetest servers on my ODroid, Let's see how well will that work
17:58 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-dev
18:02 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
18:02 ShadowNinja Krock: Do NOT use the bundled SQLite3, it's several years old.
18:02 Krock ShadowNinja, update it then. please
18:03 Krock or is that not possible?
18:04 Krock btw, it runs fine so far :)
18:06 ShadowNinja Krock: Sure it's possible, but it shouldn't be included in the first place.  Nobody uses it anyway (or at least they shouldn't) since it defaults to a system installation.
18:07 Krock ShadowNinja, well, I set no sqlite folder and *.lib file - therefore I think, it uses the included sqlite
18:08 ShadowNinja Krock: Well, your build does.
18:09 Krock ShadowNinja, would it be possible for you to add a cmake option to specify where sqlite is?
18:09 Calinou Minetest seems to perform better than before indeed: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=17&t=9790&p=149002#p149002
18:14 ShadowNinja Krock: http://sprunge.us/MTOd
18:17 Krock ShadowNinja, yes but I don't get any option in cmake-gui
18:19 Krock mark_as_advanced(SQLITE3_INCLUDE_DIR SQLITE3_LIBRARY)
18:19 Krock I see...
18:29 * Krock now uses a newer sqlite3 cuz he didn't see the checkbox "advanced"
18:35 sfan5 ShadowNinja: all of my builds use the integrated sqlite3
18:35 sfan5 and nobody told me that it's old
18:36 Krock gonna write a pull request for this if my sqlite3 verison works
18:37 Krock horray! build from scratch after chaing cmake things
18:37 sapier joined #minetest-dev
18:37 Krock -i+ing
18:43 RealBadAngel sapier, ShadowNinja are you ok with switching faces shading? make E (x+) brighter instead of N
18:44 sapier why?
18:45 RealBadAngel sapier, http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2014-07-20#i_3822787
18:48 sapier is what you suggest really better or just different?
18:49 RealBadAngel sun just follow the path E-W not N-S
18:49 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
18:50 RealBadAngel its simple switch which sides are brighter
18:51 sapier so no real benefit?
18:51 RealBadAngel cosmetic change
18:52 sapier did you know sun follows n-w on southern hemisphere? ;-)
18:52 sapier wait enw
18:52 sapier not north s
18:53 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
18:53 PenguinDad sapier: but in minetest the sun just goes from E to W
18:54 Zefram_Fysh the first people to circumnavigate Africa were disbelieved in Europe upon their return, because they reported that around the south coast of Africa they'd seen the sun in the north at noon, which all learned Europeans knew was impossible
18:54 sfan5 Zefram_Fysh: wrong channel
18:54 sapier hmm I don't understand reason for this change as it's just switch from a to b with b beeing same quality as a
18:55 Zefram_Fysh sfan5: seemed relevant to the confusion about the path the sun takes in the sky
18:56 sapier well it is quite interesting to see sun in north ;-) I experienced this my self some years ago
18:57 sapier still I'll not agree to that change, and I wont discuss about it any further, you're free to find someone else to agree
18:57 Zefram_Fysh possibly the Minetest sun should configurably (per-world) be able to appear somewhat north or south of the zenith at noon
18:58 RealBadAngel this is anyway temporary
18:58 RealBadAngel sapier, so no point to resist
18:59 sapier if it's temporary only even less reason to do it
18:59 sapier changing just to keep it changing constantly is silly
18:59 RealBadAngel i mean that will be changed with hardware lights, no not so soon ;)
18:59 PenguinDad sapier: temporary can be longer than you think ;)
19:00 sapier if you want to fix it fix it right once and not add some cripled interim version
19:00 RealBadAngel meanwhile no reason why not having right one
19:00 sapier because it's not right but just different
19:01 PenguinDad <celeron55> i don't think there is a correct way
19:02 VanessaE RealBadAngel: just how difficult would it be to just shift the lighting to follow the sun?
19:02 VanessaE (and moon)
19:03 RealBadAngel sapier, it is right. sun is fixed to EW, NS faces are brighter -> FAIL
19:03 sapier vanessaE how strange will it look like if nodes in mine change light according to sun
19:04 sapier there's no "right" shading for nodes below ground
19:04 sapier this isn't related to sun at all
19:04 RealBadAngel well, somehow related
19:04 sapier it's just some way to improve 3d effect
19:04 VanessaE sapier: I'm sure we can come up with a reasonable way to determine if a node is receiving sunlight.
19:05 Zefram_Fysh isn't the light parameter value is 15 for sunlight, whereas it's at most 14 for artificial light?
19:05 sapier I hope, but I don't wanna see some other strange thing like waving water
19:05 VanessaE Zefram_Fysh: exactly what I Was thinking.
19:05 sapier it's great for ocean but once you build first fountain it's just crazy
19:06 VanessaE if light value is 15, apply a sunlight shader to it.
19:06 sapier sorry RealBadAngel
19:06 sapier sometimes not having a feature at all is better then having a half implemented feature
19:08 RealBadAngel we already have it, why not having it a bit more correct?
19:09 RealBadAngel sapier, for water we need 2 kinds of it, we talked bout it before
19:09 sapier it's only you to believe it be "more correct" ... that's as believing floor should be green
19:10 RealBadAngel sapier, just run the game look at the sun
19:10 sapier I know RealBadAngel but you didn't do any work towards it
19:10 RealBadAngel and see which faces are brighter
19:10 sapier and you dig a whole and see if it doesn matter at all which faces are more bright
19:11 RealBadAngel it maybe cosmetic change but its worth label "BUG"
19:11 Calinou http://0bin.net/paste/f86h+7ND0QnZo+BY#9n​dO4CWjEvVpTaOdbtOrXvRXYQC8Rj5lLNnOmlWV8x2 → same groups, but the Meze is longer to dig and can't be dug with wooden or stone pickaxe, why?
19:11 sapier no it isn't
19:11 RealBadAngel ofc it is
19:11 sapier no matter what you do the shading will at best be correct for exactly 1/4th of day
19:11 RealBadAngel dont use that effect underground is different story
19:11 sapier you just change it to another quarter of day
19:12 Krock joined #minetest-dev
19:12 RealBadAngel i can code that, but then you will again complain im mixing stuff in commits
19:12 sapier no you can't code that because if all nodes change shading over days we'll have same insane effect like waving ... with the big difference you can't even disable it
19:13 RealBadAngel so i want the change to be done in single cosmetic commit, my bad i havent coded that such way since begining
19:14 sapier just to be sure we're not talking about different things what are you talking about with "I can code" ;-)
19:15 sapier I'm fully with you if you're talking about hardware lighting but if you meant what I just said don't even waste time on it
19:17 Krock joined #minetest-dev
19:31 Zefram_Fysh I have a bunch of patches for minetest_game.  someone please look at them with a view to either applying or turning them into pull requests
19:31 Zefram_Fysh [PATCH] Retain sign text when editing is aborted by <esc> -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/​minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/retain_sign_text
19:31 Zefram_Fysh [PATCH] Show filled buckets in creative inventory -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/​minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/filled_buckets_visible
19:31 Zefram_Fysh [PATCH] Consistently use group:stick in tool recipes -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/​minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/tool_stick_group
19:32 Zefram_Fysh [PATCH] Improve message about screwdriver control -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/​minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/screwdriver_mode_message
19:32 sapier you should talk to blockmen about minetest_game
19:32 Zefram_Fysh *** blockmen: No such nick/channel
19:32 sapier true he's not here today
19:33 Krock blockmen test
19:33 sfan5 Zefram_Fysh: would be good if you could create pulls for those
19:33 Zefram_Fysh [PATCH] Make open trapdoor climbable -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/​minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/trapdoor_climbable
19:33 sfan5 otherwise we are likely to forget about them
19:33 Krock such spam
19:33 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1505
19:34 Zefram_Fysh would be good if github made it possible to submit pull requests without having an account and agreeing to odious terms
19:34 Zefram_Fysh [PATCH] Pair door with door of any type -- git://git.fysh.org/zefram/​minetest/minetest_game.git branch zefram/promiscuous_door_pairing
19:34 sapier Zefram_Fysh: this is wrong channel for mintest_game ;-)
19:34 Zefram_Fysh bah
19:34 Zefram_Fysh which channel is right?
19:34 Krock none :D
19:35 * Krock gives Zefram_Fysh https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game
19:35 Zefram_Fysh what about it?
19:35 Krock there you can post your pull requests
19:35 Zefram_Fysh how?
19:36 Krock ah I see, you don't use github
19:42 VanessaE Zefram_Fysh: you're gonna have to sign up with github soon you know.
19:43 Calinou make an account as anonymous as possible, I guess
19:43 Calinou not really allowed, but you probably won't be sued for it
19:43 VanessaE not doing so only makes it incredibly inconvenient for everyone else
19:43 Calinou or even have your account closed by staff
19:44 Zefram_Fysh I'm not going to sign up with github while its terms are as they are now
19:45 Zefram_Fysh it's not about anonymity
19:47 Krock Calinou, as anonymous? I didn't even use my real email address there..
19:53 * Krock hides
20:01 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
20:10 paramat joined #minetest-dev
20:16 celeron55 i just looked up github's terms of service and privacy policy
20:16 celeron55 they are pretty reasonable for a free internet service
20:16 celeron55 but whatever, i assume you wouldn't use anything but email then
20:17 Zefram_Fysh they say that changes to terms are effe4ctive immediately, as soon as one uses the service after new terms are posted
20:17 Zefram_Fysh which means that one can't use github without ostensibly agreeing to new terms that one hasn't had a chance to see
20:17 Zefram_Fysh I'm not willing to agree to terms I haven't seen
20:17 celeron55 "If GitHub makes material changes to these Terms, we will notify you by email or by posting a notice on our site before the changes are effective."
20:17 celeron55 this contradicts with what you just said
20:18 Zefram_Fysh "posting a notice on our site" doesn't mean you actually see it.  it's not real notice
20:18 celeron55 well okay, that is a bit too sloppy from their side
20:19 Zefram_Fysh no matter how often you look at the terms page, there's always an opportunity for them to post new terms after you last looked and before you next use the service
20:19 celeron55 i have seen almost everyone do it this way though
20:20 celeron55 i guess they are afraid that regular users would consider those emails to be spam
20:20 Zefram_Fysh it'd be easy for them to avoid pulling such crap.  the minimum change required is a waiting period between new terms being posted and becoming effective.  gitorious, for example, has such a waiting period
20:20 celeron55 and, frankly, that's what people generally would consider them to be
20:20 celeron55 that's true
20:21 Zefram_Fysh with a waiting period, one can have a cron job regularly check the terms and bring changes to one's attention, giving one a reasonable opportunity to review them and to stop using the service before any unacceptable term becomes effective
20:21 celeron55 maybe you could ask them?
20:21 celeron55 i guess they like to read the feedback they receive
20:21 Zefram_Fysh github doesn't look very open to negotiation.  there's a lot of other lawyer-derived crap in their terms too
20:22 celeron55 you can't expect any kind of fast changes but if enough people ask it, at least they know why some people don't use their site; especially if you tell the comparison to gitorious
20:23 celeron55 after all they've written support@github.com all over the place
20:23 paramat sapier, i'll explain RBA's proposed faces shading change that RBA, PenguinDad and myself agree is better: sun in MT goes directly overhead from E to W, if you time-average illumination of faces over a day, which is the only way to resolve this, EW faces should be brighter than NS faces, with EW faces equal and NS faces equal. this is how MT 0.4.10 stable is but was accidently reversed 3 days ago in RBA's commit, he ju
20:23 paramat st wants to correct this, please see my earlier posts today in minetest-dev channel. can some other dev please agree to this?
20:24 celeron55 Zefram_Fysh: anyway, you probably understand that this project won't move anywhere and can't really change its practices for you
20:25 Zefram_Fysh I might do that.  haven't really considered it so far because the service that github supplies isn't basically attractive to me.  I have no need for someone else to host my git repos.  the only reason why the possibility of me getting a github account comes up is because other people want me to put stuff on github for their convenience, and that's really between *them* and github
20:26 Zefram_Fysh I understand that any particular github-hosted project is unlikely to stop using github because of my issues with it, and I've never asked them to.  and it's their right to refuse to accept my patches merely because I don't put them on github, though that would suck mightily
20:27 sapier Zefram_Fysh: they're not refused it's just about being quite uncomfortable for us to merge them thus you'll have to be patient for someone to merge it
20:27 Zefram_Fysh I am, aside from refusing github, flexible about the forms in which I'm willing to supply patches.  a branch on my own git repo is a starting point, meant to be easy for git users (at github or elsewhere), but I'm also willing to email a diff, pastebin a diff, or potentially do other things
20:28 celeron55 for the record, i'm now reading bitbucket's policies for comparison; it kind of seems that for paid accounts, they consider the terms to be static during each subscription term (which seems to be one month), which is interesting
20:28 celeron55 (i hope someone will take care of linking or posting your stuff on github)
20:29 celeron55 but for free accounts, it's clearly the same as for github
20:29 Zefram_Fysh sapier: patience I have.  my concern in pushing a patch is to make sure it gets into the process at all, not to impart any sense of urgency about it
20:30 Zefram_Fysh though I note you processed my recent engine patches rather quickly, no patience required on my side.  thanks
20:30 sfan5 Zefram_Fysh: if possible, patched with git format-patch
20:30 sfan5 makes many things easier
20:30 sapier "the process" is github if you don't wanna use it it's always outside
20:31 Zefram_Fysh sfan5: I do indeed use git-format-patch when I'm emailing or pastebinning a patch
20:31 RealBadAngel sfan5, celeron55 are you ok with change faces shading for E-W pair be brighter?
20:32 sapier Zefram_Fysh: I don't have a problem with merging your minetest pulls every now and then but I wont to this for minetest_game as I usually don't change things there
20:33 sfan5 RealBadAngel: as long as it does not make things look worse, yes
20:33 paramat "forum.minetest.net uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate expired on 20/07/14 21:19"
20:33 sfan5 Fehlertyp: HSTS failure
20:33 sapier sfan5: that's not really an answer ;-)
20:34 sfan5 go bug xyz about that
20:34 celeron55 actually, bitbucket's privacy policy isn't written in this way; so it sucks too
20:34 RealBadAngel celeron55, and how about you?
20:34 * sfan5 suggests self-hosting git (e.g. gitlab)
20:35 celeron55 RealBadAngel: i don't think i want to focus on this enough to make a proper decision
20:35 celeron55 i am concerned about it looking worse than currently
20:36 RealBadAngel it cant look any worse, just another pair will be brighter, its a simple switch
20:36 sapier it can't look any better either RealBadAngel
20:36 celeron55 because if you see the sun, then you see the sides of nodes that aren't facing the sun, and you expect them to be dark; if you don't see the sun, then you don't know where the sun is and the faces facing you can be anything
20:36 RealBadAngel ofc it can look better when you will look at sun position
20:36 sfan5 Zefram_Fysh: if you want your patches to be noticed please provide .patch files (pastebinned to something like sprunge.us) soon
20:37 sapier but sun isn't at same position all day so it's gonna be wrong anyway
20:37 RealBadAngel we are talking about pairs
20:37 sfan5 paramat: chrome won't even let me connect because os HSTS
20:37 sapier why do you wanna link things (3d effect shading) to something not related at all (sun position)
20:37 RealBadAngel so x+ and x- will be brighter, the same line as sun goes
20:38 paramat yeah firefox has blocked me from the forum, trying to override :)
20:38 sapier I don't wanna have my mine lighted by sun
20:38 celeron55 so because what i said, the sides EW should be dark, so that if you see the sun, you expect the sun to cast a shadow behind the node, so it should be dark
20:38 RealBadAngel sapier, i said i can code that, if node is not lit by sun, disable the shading or apply another kind
20:39 celeron55 if you see the node from the sun's side (whichever position the sun is at), you don't see the sun and it won't seem weird because of that
20:39 celeron55 i don't know if it works like this in practice, but this is my concern
20:39 sapier if you do something as silly as waving fountains for light I'm gonna revert it ... I never did revert something from someone else but that will be the first time ;-)
20:40 paramat yes celeron's shadow argument there is something that occured to me too
20:41 sapier problem with shading is in best case it's gonna be wrong half day only
20:41 Krock okay. gotblocked from the forums now, too
20:42 sapier and then it's gonna look like its supposed to be correct but we didn't manage to do it really correct
20:42 paramat but http://i.imgur.com/UZPpll6.png shows how the brighter faces suggest sun in that direction
20:42 sfan5 Krock: thats not blocked but your browser protecting your
20:42 sfan5 -r
20:42 Krock ah. nice browser
20:45 RealBadAngel sapier, this is just cosmetic change, not some weird gfx effect :P
20:46 sapier to me it's just a "change" not even cosmetic and in no way better then before ... so explain to me WHY change something for sake of change
20:46 RealBadAngel to make it look more right
20:46 sapier you say yourself it's not gonna be correct
20:47 sapier why is it supposed to be more right?
20:47 RealBadAngel jeez, because of sun....
20:47 sapier sun isn't fixed in south
20:47 RealBadAngel now faces FACING sun are darker, for christ sake
20:48 RealBadAngel what south??
20:48 RealBadAngel sun path is along X axis
20:48 RealBadAngel so faces along x should be brighter too
20:48 sapier ok so if you change it'll look like rising moon being more bright then setting sun ... great imrpovement
20:49 RealBadAngel damn, what are you talking about??
20:50 Zefram_Fysh sfan5: patch files at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408901 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408902 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408903 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408904 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408905 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/408906
20:50 sapier RealBadAngel: no matter where you place the "bright" node side it's gonna be wrong half day
20:50 RealBadAngel half day is better than all time wrong :P
20:51 sapier that's your opinion
20:51 RealBadAngel and when switched NS pair will be lit correctly
20:51 sapier Imho it's better to not even make it look like it's supposed to be correct
20:51 RealBadAngel all the ttime
20:51 Zefram_Fysh being obviously wrong for half the day sounds worse to me than being indistinct all the time
20:52 RealBadAngel damn it, coding switch lighting at noon
20:52 RealBadAngel you wont rise that any more
20:52 sapier great it's cool sun penetrating 1000m of solid rock to lighten up a mine
20:53 RealBadAngel sapier i said thats a different story :P
20:53 RealBadAngel i will also add that to that commit
20:53 RealBadAngel and please no comments about mixed content
20:53 PenguinDad let's make all node faces have the same brightness
20:53 sapier no that's not different, that's same as your waving puddles
20:54 sapier it may look better for some situations but looking horrible in others
20:54 sapier I prefere solutions looking acceptable in all situations
20:54 RealBadAngel sapier, for puddles i said what i need. 2 kinds of water nodes
20:55 sapier then do this first and don't expect others to fix things you proke
20:55 sapier broke
20:55 RealBadAngel im not doing in mapgens
20:56 sapier if your change doesn't work without other fixes it's not a thing to be merged ... same for lighting, as long as there's no solution for lighting below ground or in closed rooms changing node shading dynamicaly is crap
20:56 RealBadAngel mg should create oceans using ocean water, rivers and lakes with still water
20:56 sapier tell this hmmmm and help him implement it
20:57 sapier I like the waves on shore but right now I always disable it after a view minutes because it's just to wired
20:57 sapier weired
21:11 sfan5 Zefram_Fysh: ok, added them https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues
21:11 Zefram_Fysh thanks
21:11 paramat perhaps a solution is to lessen the brightness difference between EW and NS faces, have both pairs fairly dark, increases the 3D effect and decreases the problems we are arguing about :) BTW MT 0.4.10 stable has EW faces brighter with smooth lighting on so that can be tested
21:18 paramat looks like xyz will fix security cert soon :)
21:18 paramat left #minetest-dev
21:32 swaaws joined #minetest-dev
21:34 sapier left #minetest-dev
22:01 loggingbot_ joined #minetest-dev
22:01 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
22:05 VanessaE use the screwdriver to toggle said flag.
22:06 Zefram_Fysh the screwdriver can't point at liquids
22:06 VanessaE in case the player is trying to build an artificial lake.
22:06 VanessaE Zefram_Fysh: it can be changed I'm sure.
22:06 Zefram_Fysh maybe a different tool, but having the flag there doesn't sound great to me

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext