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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-06-24

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08:48 * RealBadAngel yawns
08:50 VanessaE wake up.
08:53 RealBadAngel i do have new code rdy, removing now previously added tooltips to elements
08:53 VanessaE what'd you replace it with?
08:54 RealBadAngel im just restoring all the elements to pre-tooltips age
08:55 RealBadAngel tooltips with current approach can be added to any (almost) formspec element
08:56 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/v8m5X1z8
08:56 RealBadAngel ^^ modified UI code for user defined buttons
08:57 RealBadAngel as you can see tooltip is added with new formspec element
08:57 RealBadAngel tooltip[<gui_element_name>,<tooltip_text>]
09:00 RealBadAngel im thinkin also extending tooltip field with color attributes
09:00 RealBadAngel like background and text colors
09:01 RealBadAngel like ancient indians used to say: hell, why not? :)
09:01 VanessaE ah so you're going with sapier's idea after all.
09:02 RealBadAngel yup, and i kinda like it
09:02 RealBadAngel because i dont have to modify original elements to have tooltips
09:02 RealBadAngel even for future added ones
09:02 VanessaE you should probably add that method with your code revert
09:02 VanessaE (as a separate commit in the same pull)
09:02 VanessaE may as well keep the functionality etc
09:03 RealBadAngel it cannot be separated, one exludes another
09:03 VanessaE right
09:03 VanessaE I just meant instead of revert the broken way and then later on adding the new way
09:03 VanessaE do it all now
09:03 VanessaE just to get it all out of the way in one shot
09:04 RealBadAngel also the file was modified meanwhile
09:04 RealBadAngel so i cannot simply revert my commits
09:05 VanessaE ah
09:05 RealBadAngel but the colors i wil leave for another update, it will be optional anyway
09:05 VanessaE well by revert I just mean "revert the function", not revert in the sense of reverting an actual commit
09:05 VanessaE i.e. do what you're doing now.
09:06 VanessaE ....and when you do colors, *of course* you will support signs_lib's CGA color scheme ;)
09:16 RealBadAngel lol
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10:32 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1411
10:32 RealBadAngel ^^ tooltips completely reworked, all old code removed
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10:33 RealBadAngel tooltips now are separate formspec elements, and can be applied to any GUI element
10:33 RealBadAngel previous tooltips related pulls are closed
10:34 VanessaE this includes code to delay them also?
10:34 RealBadAngel yes
10:34 RealBadAngel ofc that does not apply to items, theyre done by separate code
10:35 RealBadAngel i may add that feature for them in the future
10:35 VanessaE ok, applies clean against HEAD.  building.
10:36 RealBadAngel for testing you gonna need updated UI, please hold on
10:36 VanessaE I think, btw, if you make the item tooltips just not chase the pointer, but otherwise pop up immediately like they already do, that might be suitable to include in your current pull.
10:38 VanessaE builds and runs clean.
10:38 VanessaE (I'm impatient.  Travis is too slow :P )
10:39 RealBadAngel fuck travis, be brave
10:39 RealBadAngel meanwhile UI is updated
10:39 VanessaE just pull it from mainline?
10:39 RealBadAngel yeah
10:40 VanessaE ok, lemme get this pull onto the server also.
10:41 RealBadAngel old clients should have no problems with new UI
10:41 RealBadAngel new element will be just ignored by them
10:41 VanessaE right
10:42 RealBadAngel i havent tested that, but definition says so ;)
10:44 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, here?
10:44 VanessaE ok, let's try it out.
10:45 VanessaE my Creative server has the new code.
10:45 VanessaE tooltips work as expected
10:45 VanessaE (it has updated UI also)
10:45 VanessaE got an old client handy to try it out with?
10:46 RealBadAngel trying now with modified
10:46 RealBadAngel but yes, i will try older one too
10:47 VanessaE only Creative is running up-to-date + #1411.  all other servers are up-to-date, without that pull.
10:47 VanessaE just fyi.
10:47 VanessaE (because they still need a restart)
10:50 VanessaE opinions?
10:51 RealBadAngel modified one works as expected
10:51 VanessaE good
10:52 RealBadAngel tryin now old build
10:54 RealBadAngel hmm i think i joined another server
10:54 RealBadAngel with not updated UI
10:54 VanessaE 30000 is creative
10:55 VanessaE on the others, UI and server are the previous sorta-broken ones
10:55 VanessaE but only Creative, Survival and MG-Nore should have UI
10:55 RealBadAngel yup
10:56 RealBadAngel now connected to creative with old client
10:56 RealBadAngel no problems
10:56 VanessaE good
10:56 RealBadAngel new tooltips are just not shown
10:57 RealBadAngel however itemimagebuttons still work, just without delays
10:57 RealBadAngel i mean tooltips for them
10:57 RealBadAngel "flawless victory"  ;)
10:57 VanessaE heh
10:57 VanessaE now we wait for sapier.
10:58 RealBadAngel youre free to deploy UI to other servers
10:58 VanessaE just did for MG-nore (assuming it even has it, I tend to forget)(
10:58 VanessaE gotta wait for Survival, someone is playing there.
10:59 RealBadAngel kick the butt, new is coming into town ;)
10:59 VanessaE heh
10:59 VanessaE this guy's one of my old-guard, I'll let him play till he signs off.
11:05 RealBadAngel hmm, lets see now what i can do about colors
11:06 VanessaE #x for x is a hex digit 0 to f, follows the CGA color palette :)
11:06 RealBadAngel i do have to wait for sapier anyway, can spend it on adding here some unnecesary eye candies ;)
11:06 VanessaE (or #xxxxxx if you MUST have the full HTML color spec)
11:06 RealBadAngel color format is already known
11:07 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L908
11:07 RealBadAngel theres code to set global colors already
11:08 RealBadAngel i just want tooltips to override globals
11:09 RealBadAngel so you can have different coulored tooltips in same form
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13:19 RealBadAngel ok, now im REALLY done with tooltips
13:19 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug1r81Qg89U
13:24 kaeza nice
13:34 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1411
13:34 RealBadAngel pull updated with colors for tooltips
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16:40 Krock http://i.imgur.com/eogIufe.png
16:40 Krock built some monutes ago with newest git
16:40 Krock *minutes
16:41 Krock case closed. forgot to copy builtin folder
16:42 * Krock headdesks
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16:51 asl does the server or the client handle object movement (throwing item will fall to the ground)?
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16:57 Calinou server does velocity and acceleration, interpolated (not predicted) by the client
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17:25 Amaz If anyone wants to kick Amaz_ it could get annoying...
17:26 sfan5 why would you want Amaz_ kicked?
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17:45 Megaf celeron55: congrats for your coding style, pretty well organized. I'm finding it quite easy to change it
17:49 rubenwardy Are you sure you are talking about the Minetest source code?
17:49 rubenwardy The coding style is very inconsistant
17:50 Megaf yep
17:50 Megaf at least the lua part of it
17:50 Megaf I find it pretty cool and easy to read
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17:57 rubenwardy How can I get the height of the terrain at a particular point from within the cpp code?
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17:57 rubenwardy ie: Is there a helper function?
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18:04 Calinou Carbone crashes other clients if they connect to the server, too
18:04 Calinou need to use old Git again
18:04 Calinou I have absolutely no idea why Carbone crashes and not minetest_game
18:04 celeron55 Megaf: i'm fairly sure whatever you are looking isn't made by me
18:05 Megaf celeron55: at the moment, init.lua of default mod pro minimal
18:05 Megaf from minimal*
18:05 celeron55 oh, then it might be 8)
18:06 Megaf This https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/​master/games/minimal/mods/default/init.lua
18:07 Megaf celeron55 authored on 26 Mar 2012
18:07 Megaf Yours! :)
18:07 celeron55 hmm, it actually is a quite good example of a small game
18:07 * celeron55 congratulates himself
18:07 Megaf celeron55: Yep, the code is so well organized that I'm able to clean it without making the server crash on start
18:08 Megaf I removed all tools, falling nodes (dirt/sand), flowing liquids
18:08 Megaf and changed a couple of things
18:08 Megaf and I don't know lua
18:09 Megaf https://github.com/Megaf/Pixel
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18:17 casimir If anybody noticed, in the main menu the game icons are not 48x48
18:17 casimir https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/mas​ter/builtin/mainmenu/tab_singleplayer.lua#L48
18:18 casimir changing y=1.15 to y=1,18 fixes it
18:18 casimir sorry . not ,
18:18 casimir don't know if this is the right way to do it
18:18 sfan5 fixes what?
18:19 casimir the icons for the subgames are smaller than they should be
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18:19 casimir they look ugly when some pixels are left out
18:22 rubenwardy I get   "Some exception: Somebody tried to get/set something in a nonexistent position." when using Map::getNode()
18:22 rubenwardy How can I see if the node has been loaded by the client yet?
18:22 rubenwardy (I am calling it from an instance, not statically, btw)
18:23 rubenwardy env->getMap() is the local map, right?
18:23 sapier actually you can't at client side
18:23 sapier you can't change  node client side either
18:23 sapier at least not permanent
18:23 rubenwardy no, I am trying to read what the nodes are
18:24 sapier as you're talking about client side I assume we're talking about c++ code?
18:24 rubenwardy yes
18:25 rubenwardy Just found client.getEnv().getClientMap(), I should probably be using that instead of env->getMap()
18:25 sapier I don't think there's been a usecase for this, if you need it catch the exception
18:25 sapier or change behaviour of client side getNode()
18:26 kahrl casimir: known issue
18:27 kahrl with some arithmetic I worked out that the size should be exactly 1.165,1.175
18:27 sfan5 arithmetic! \o/
18:27 kahrl but when I changed it, the icons were no longer vertically centered, and I was busy so I never got around to fixing it
18:28 kahrl sfan5: isn't arithmetic a nice thing? :)
18:29 rubenwardy ah!
18:29 sfan5 yes
18:29 rubenwardy getNodeNoEx -> get node, no exception
18:29 sapier *g* kahrl I don't even wanna look at this if gui scaling is active or screens with different dpi values
18:33 casimir ok...
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19:18 RealBadAngel hi
19:18 RealBadAngel sapier, seen tooltips patch?
19:23 sapier yes, have you fixed shadowninjas comments?
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19:27 RealBadAngel most of them
19:28 RealBadAngel i wont be invertin the conditions and adding another break/continue there
19:28 RealBadAngel im sick enough for this goto already
19:28 RealBadAngel i havent used goto in my code for more than 20 yrs of coding
19:30 RealBadAngel also code (conditions) and flow has to be readable for me, fuck the tabs, whole code doesnt occupy even half of my screen width
19:31 RealBadAngel rest of what SN suggested already made
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19:36 sapier sounds good ... I had an idea how we can prevent or at least relax things like that in future versions
19:36 sapier won't help for now of course
19:36 RealBadAngel go on
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19:37 sapier well it's not that complicated I mentioned yesterday whole thing is because of formspec missing versioning ... so why not just add it?
19:38 RealBadAngel well, since its being sent anyway we can add version field
19:38 sapier exactly ... prepending formspec string by formspec_version[1] will not break any client while it can be used in future versions
19:40 RealBadAngel lets say version[0,4,10,xxx]
19:40 RealBadAngel so the code can separate it easily
19:40 sapier why?
19:40 sapier what are those numbers good for?
19:41 RealBadAngel whatever, just proposal
19:41 sapier I'd keep it simple and just count up ... unless someone has a suggestion what to do with other numbers? ;-)
19:42 RealBadAngel with exact version numbers one can define since which build the feature is here
19:42 sapier but what's this good for?
19:43 sapier if you wanna have any chance old clients to interpret it correct you may never change old fields
19:43 RealBadAngel keep the version of formspec same as engine?
19:43 sapier for what?
19:44 RealBadAngel dunno exactly ;)
19:44 sapier I'd thought about a quite simple mechanism if version of received formspec is bigger then client version , client will interpret as far as it knows ... quite similar to what you suggested ... the only difference is if you have a matching client version you'll still be able to detect errors in formspecs
19:45 sapier client version == client formspec version
19:45 RealBadAngel right
19:45 RealBadAngel btw, we have tested my code in different setups
19:46 RealBadAngel old clients can connect to newer server without any glitches
19:46 sapier good ... same should be done to what I propose
19:46 RealBadAngel funny is even server doesnt have to be new
19:47 RealBadAngel old server can run mods for newer clients
19:48 sapier yes that's still gonna work
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19:48 sapier well ... server will tell wrong version, but as client will understand those parameters it's gonna work too
19:49 sfan5 <sapier> I'd keep it simple and just count up
19:49 sfan5 +1
19:50 sapier everytime someone adds a parameter to a existing field we have to count up ... it's a unsigned int I guess we'll never run out of numbers
19:50 RealBadAngel who knows...
19:50 sapier 0.4.10 will be version 1
19:51 sapier everything before is 0
19:51 RealBadAngel ok, travis passed. can i push it?
19:52 sapier wait
19:52 sapier why to you use , to separate fields?
19:52 RealBadAngel where?
19:53 sapier tooltip[<gui_element_name>,<tool​tip_text>,<bgcolor>,<fontcolor>]
19:53 sapier hmm seems to be a doc error only
19:54 RealBadAngel hmm, are you sure, i can see ; here
19:55 sapier well the string ip is what I did copy
19:55 RealBadAngel jokin, pushed and rebased already ;)
19:55 sapier ahh :)
19:55 Megaf sapier: the heck you did on todays "snapshot"? I reduced max lag from 8 to 1
19:55 sapier hmm guess I need to rebase my version pull prior I even created it ;-)
19:56 Megaf even my Raspberry Pi is running fast
19:56 sapier I merged the performance improvements I did for android port
19:57 sapier rba that was meant as "push it"
19:57 RealBadAngel travis is checkin it again
19:58 RealBadAngel skip it?
19:58 sapier no
19:58 sapier I guess it's not gonna fail but just to be sure
19:58 RealBadAngel i thought so also
19:59 RealBadAngel it could be marked as not checked or something
20:00 sapier I don't think so but I guess we can spend those 15 min
20:00 RealBadAngel seen the vid?
20:02 sapier particles video? yes
20:02 RealBadAngel no, the tooltips
20:03 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p​layer_detailpage&amp;v=Ug1r81Qg89U#t=29
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20:05 sapier you should think about white on green ;-)
20:05 sapier really nice
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20:08 RealBadAngel ok, travis passed, pushing
20:13 RealBadAngel done, whats next? :)
20:14 sapier dll fix?
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20:15 RealBadAngel nah, not my area
20:16 RealBadAngel got it
20:16 RealBadAngel most annoying thing in UI ever
20:17 RealBadAngel pressing enter in search filter edit box closes the formspec
20:17 RealBadAngel like VanessaE says 'this shit HAS to end!"
20:18 cg72 RBA fix that and i will love you forever :)
20:20 RealBadAngel sapier, see? :)
20:20 RealBadAngel cg72, on it
20:21 sapier yes ... why isn't there an issue for it?
20:21 RealBadAngel i tried once, it ended with big argue over the chan ;)
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20:23 RealBadAngel some are thinkin that original formspec usage, edit the sign with editbox just is the most important thing in the universe so pressing enter should close all the forms ;)
20:24 sapier hmm wait ... does this mean you have to change general behaviour?
20:24 RealBadAngel i will try not to
20:25 RealBadAngel which doesnt change my opionion default behaviour is just plain stupid
20:25 RealBadAngel to close you have added automagically button
20:34 sapier yes but in case it involves changing default behaviour we'll have a lot more discussion
20:35 sapier megaf did you have minetest installed at that device before?
20:35 Megaf sapier: nope
20:36 sapier hmm I can reprocude that issue
20:36 sapier seems I've broken something recently
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20:38 Megaf sapier: just don't touch the x86 thing
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20:46 cg72 i got a dev question, is there any way to thread the server without a huge rewrite? i have a 10+ nope VM and i was told in the current state it wouldnt help any
20:46 cg72 nope = node
20:47 sapier it helps but not as much as it could help ... no you can't change it without a lots of changes ... but we're on it
20:47 sapier yet don't expect it to be done soon
20:48 cg72 i also got 4 tesla gpus in 1 server so if you can rewrite it all in cuda ;) i would love it lol
20:48 sapier don't expect them to help at all
20:49 cg72 im not i was just joking around :P
20:49 cg72 they are for autocad and my solidworks
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20:49 sapier I guess there'd not even  a lot of benefit if we did have resources to do so ... gpu's are good for simd operations ... quite rare on minetest server
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21:20 sapier megaf can you try rebooting your device and start minetest?
21:21 sapier on my ideos x3 I can start it once per boot
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21:45 Megaf_ sapier; ok, hold on
21:48 sapier great the patch fixing vivante textures breaks texts on adreno
21:49 Megaf_ sapier; not it took longer to get to the grey screen
21:49 Megaf_ now*
21:50 sapier sad ... guess 256 mb are that hard at limit it sometimes works sometimes not dependent on apps in background
21:51 sapier you can look for cyanogen mod for that device ... at least on ideos it's way more fast
21:51 Megaf_ sapier; there's not really much on minetest c lient that should use that much ram...
21:51 Megaf_ really
21:52 sapier there is
21:52 Megaf_ I'm sure you can slim it down a lot
21:52 Megaf_ maybe by 90%
21:52 sapier java vm, c libraries, textures
21:58 RealBadAngel textures^2
21:58 RealBadAngel thx to modifiers
21:59 RealBadAngel also so loved use of ^ to create new ones
21:59 cg72 to same ram is there any way to force a texture pack on th the android clients like 16px not the 32+px the looks of the world on my tablet is too small to see the slight differences and it would cat the textures down greatly
21:59 cg72 same=save
21:59 RealBadAngel folks seems not understanding that each use of modifier creates new texture in ram
22:00 sapier we could choose a texturepack clientside but that would override ALL texture packs
22:00 celeron55 ehm
22:00 sapier there's a simplified menu on android
22:01 celeron55 how about before making any kind of guesses like these you would use valgrind's massif tool to check what actually takes up the memory
22:01 sapier celeron55 I already tried to run valgrind on android ... didn't exactly work
22:01 cg72 my kids play on our tablet and most driod mt users are kids so i dont tkink they mind about overriding texture packs
22:01 celeron55 run it on PC
22:02 celeron55 doesn't make a difference
22:02 sapier I can send you the report if you want it ;-P
22:02 sapier already did this too
22:02 RealBadAngel and?
22:02 celeron55 why aren't you mentioning the result then
22:02 sapier most of memory is now within irrlicht
22:03 RealBadAngel textures then? :)
22:03 sapier most likely
22:03 sapier I answere where memory is used on android
22:04 sapier I can't tell massif told me about javavm and c libraries
22:04 sapier but 10mb libs for a total of 100mb are significant
22:07 sapier and textures are uncompressed memory, 32 instead of 16 increases texture memory by factor 4
22:08 cg72 thats why i sugested a texture override to 16px for most of the textures :)
22:09 sapier why force every server to look same?
22:10 sapier maybe adding a special settings menu having "low details" configuration
22:10 cg72 well most i have seen do now with defaults and it was just an idea to help reduce ram
22:10 cg72 a low detail setting might be the answer
22:10 sapier but for what I guess ppl wouldn't even recognize "low detail configuration for slow devices" would be suitable for them
22:11 Exio4 what about having it enabled by default if X specs aren't meet?
22:11 sapier still that'd result in a server having 16x16 texture pack with medival textures to use default textures
22:11 sapier there's no clear line to decide
22:12 Exio4 how heavy would be to resize textures on load?
22:12 sapier I've seen devices having almost same hardware specs having a performance difference about 50%
22:12 cg72 the current non-medevil textures can be used but scalled down and still look the same
22:13 sapier if you want to scale down a texture you have to load it to memory first
22:13 sapier right now I suspect I can't run minetest twice because of memory fragmentation ... same effect would occur if you did this
22:13 cg72 well i meant scale it down and add it to the app to use so no ram is used to do it
22:13 sapier how many texture packs to add?
22:13 sapier how to decide which one to use?
22:14 cg72 well the standard default is what 90% of android players use and most servers
22:14 sapier I don't have any number about what is used and what not
22:15 sapier I didn't even get reasonable feedback about what game to set as default
22:15 sapier same is for games to be included in 0.4.10
22:15 cg72 really?
22:15 Exio4 some low detail texture pack available right next to the default TP, if people wants to use it, then they use it
22:16 cg72 my newest server runs a 8px texture pack to be mobile device friendly
22:17 sapier https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=9385 6 ppl .. not that I wouldn appreciate their opinion ... but that's not very much
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22:21 cg72 sapie to be honest i just got our tablet 6 weeks ago so im new to this, i only go on what thw server players on mine and vanessas servers say about how they game on phones and tablets
22:21 sapier I don't have lot of experience what users use too so any opinion is welcome
22:22 sapier right now my knowledge is about following: tablets work mostly fine
22:22 sapier while 4" phones seem to have quite little controls
22:22 cg72 i would say on the servers connected to #minetest on inchra.net about 70% or more are on mobile devices
22:22 Megaf_ sapier; well, now my RPi subgame makes sense...
22:22 Megaf_ and so my Raspberry Pi
22:23 Megaf_ pff
22:23 cg72 Megaf_: mt on a pi? wow
22:23 Megaf_ https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=15&amp;t=9192
22:23 Megaf_ cg72; as server, yes
22:23 Megaf_ cg72; I can't run the client yet due to, dont know how
22:23 Megaf_ need help to get the GLES thing to work
22:24 sapier what graphics chip does pi have?
22:24 Megaf_ RPi is based on Minimal, and there's a lot of room to make it much smaller
22:25 Megaf_ Broadcom VideoCore IV @ 250 MHz from a BCM2835 SoC
22:26 sapier hmm no idea how to use that one
22:26 cg72 all my graphics knowhow is using lcds or i2c sorry
22:27 sapier megaf thank's to your phone I found another graphics card bug ;-)
22:27 Megaf_ sapier; is the same GPU several phones use, and the iPhone used to use that GPU too
22:27 sapier ok actually it's a bug in a fix for a bug
22:27 sapier thought iphonse gave povervrsgx540?
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22:27 cg72 bugs in a fix i seem to do that alot myself lol
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22:31 sapier well the bug is not clearing an error prior doing something that may fail
22:31 sapier seems like previous errors are still there
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22:38 sapier megaf what's the x86 device you did test it at?
22:40 Megaf_ sapier; runs fine
22:40 Megaf_ both single player and multiplayer
22:40 sapier yes but what device?
22:40 Megaf_ I just dont like the controls
22:40 Megaf_ and the fact that I have to hit twice on everything to be able to input text
22:41 Megaf_ sapier; Motorola XT890 (Razr I)
22:41 sapier well controls most likely wont change for this release but they can be improved for next one
22:41 sapier at least not totally change
22:42 Megaf_ sapier; the worse thing about the controls is the fact I can control direction and "jump" at the same time
22:42 Megaf_ so climbing and swiming is both a hard task
22:42 sapier why?
22:42 Megaf_ why what?
22:43 sapier why is it hard? you can do this on pc too? ;-)
22:43 Megaf_ sapier; on pc I can control direction with the mouse and jump pressing space bar
22:43 Megaf_ on mobile we control direction draging the finger on the screen
22:44 Megaf_ and have to hit a "button" to jumop
22:44 sapier sorry don't get it by now
22:44 Megaf_ so, left hand thumb on "arrow up" and right hand thumb on screen do control direction
22:45 Megaf_ but you have do stop controling direction to hit the "jump" on screen button
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22:45 cg72 coolcat im your friend
22:45 sapier why? you can control with left hand too?
22:45 cg72 crap wrong chat lol
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22:46 Megaf_ sapier; then I cant go forward
22:46 sapier yes I know mouse control is more comfortable
22:46 Megaf_ other clients would use some kind of auto jump feature
22:47 sapier yes but that would change whole game mechanics
22:47 sapier and is quite hard to implement as controls suddenly have to access map data
22:49 cg72 controls and map data i dont like
22:54 sapier still controls can be improved for sure ... at least if someone suggest something really better and not just better for one person
22:54 sapier guess we'll have to do this by voting then
22:56 cg72 i perfer a mouse not touch screen lol
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23:48 VanessaE why is #1411 still open if it's already been merged? :P

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