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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-06-23

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Time Nick Message
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00:36 VanessaE is it just me, or did the buttons in the Esc/pause menu get just a tad larger after these last few commits?
00:36 VanessaE (as well as some fields in the main menu)
00:43 VanessaE I will say this much for sure;  those latest patches definitely cut down the memory usage by a large margin.  and if they don't, then something else recently did.  9GB is MUCH better than 13 GB.
00:52 VanessaE I can drop that to 7.2 GB or so by disabling bumpmaps and aniso/mipmap, but that still leaves about 2GB that's unaccounted for
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01:15 Taoki Heh, I can literally see the world loading faster in singleplayer with the latest improvements. Awesome work sapier
01:18 VanessaE unfortunately the fps improvement doesn't hold for long when playing on my Creative server with HDX 512, but it's a definite improvement.
01:18 VanessaE probably being limited by my GPU at this point - there's only so much memory shuffling it can do I guess.
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10:24 Calinou http://0bin.net/paste/xB+uCkOEFgMV-Co8#iB​a31qFArNOOS1anyTOdMSNdXKR5o-OaR3300bZAD6x → Crashes in Carbone but not minetest_game, as of latest Git.
10:24 Calinou also, smooth lighting is just broken.
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10:27 Calinou HEAD~5 works, smooth lighting is fixed.
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12:50 sfan5 pushing in 5 minutes: http://sprunge.us/SLVf?diff
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13:42 troller sfan5, DONT!
13:42 troller move it to porting.
13:43 sfan5 you're almost one hour too latew
13:43 sfan5 -wq
13:43 sfan5 s/.*//
13:43 sfan5 also cguittfont is not a minetest component, making it depend on porting is not a good idea
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16:39 Calinou I still segfault when loading Carbone :/
16:43 RealBadAngel any logs?
16:45 Calinou I posted a backtrace of gdb this morning
16:45 Calinou http://0bin.net/paste/xB+uCkOEFgMV-Co8#iB​a31qFArNOOS1anyTOdMSNdXKR5o-OaR3300bZAD6x
16:45 Calinou minetest_game loads fine, but smooth lighting is quite broken
16:45 Calinou I compiled HEAD~5 again, I still crash
16:46 Calinou so, we can deduce that the commit that crashes is: “Don't keep temporary images in RAM”
16:46 Calinou (probably)
16:47 RealBadAngel here carbone loads without any problems
16:47 RealBadAngel just downloaded it and tried
16:49 Calinou trying HEAD~8… this morning, HEAD~5 worked
16:50 Calinou that one works
16:50 Calinou HEAD est maintenant à f8522d5 Fix server assert in case of invalid message from client, just kick that client.
16:50 Calinou that one
16:52 RealBadAngel only thing i noticed that it crashes when going back to main menu
16:53 RealBadAngel not always, but it happens
16:53 Calinou segfaults are so frequent when going back to main menu…
16:54 RealBadAngel yup
17:07 RealBadAngel looks like ive fixed extrusion code
17:07 RealBadAngel it started to work with any resolution textures
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17:21 sfan5 Calinou: without a debug build the backtrace is pretty useless and "bt full" is better than "bt" for backtraces
17:21 Calinou ok, thanks
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18:02 RealBadAngel [  0%] [  0%] Built target cguittfont
18:02 RealBadAngel mo update
18:02 RealBadAngel hmmz, shoulnt it be "no update" ? :)
18:09 sapier don't you know mo?
18:10 RealBadAngel i just checked, mo is here ;)
18:12 RealBadAngel btw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9M596KW1dw
18:12 RealBadAngel fixed long time broken extrude code
18:13 sapier what's been the bug?
18:13 RealBadAngel you gonna rotfl
18:13 sapier return prior doing it?
18:14 RealBadAngel wait a sec, i will make PULL for it :)
18:19 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/com​mit/a8ffb487048a7fa5f3f07522414e37c8670fba0c
18:22 RealBadAngel you should learn how to make proper commits full of  content, not like 1,5k of whitespaces ;)
18:22 sapier well if you guys wouldn't initially add that much nonsense I'd not have to fix it
18:23 sapier but as I'm annyoed about that discussion I'm just gonna tell my ide not to fix broken whitespaces any longer
18:26 RealBadAngel just jokin, calm down :)
18:26 RealBadAngel can i push that BIG fix o' mine?
18:27 proller sapier, you can fix broken whitespaces
18:27 RealBadAngel lol
18:27 proller BUT MAKE IT IN SEPARATE COMMITS
18:27 proller DO NOT MIX IT WITH CODE
18:28 proller ^ very hard to get ?
18:28 RealBadAngel since when do you care bout mt?
18:28 celeron55 i must say proller is actually right
18:28 proller https://github.com/minetest/minetest/network
18:29 RealBadAngel i dont say hes right or not, just asked what happened that he cares
18:29 proller ^ answer in link
18:29 celeron55 proller merges stuff from minetest to freeminer; i guess that's why
18:29 proller yes
18:30 sapier I don't deny he's right ... yet the result is whitespaces wont be fixed at all
18:30 sapier because noone has interest in doing a whitespace commit
18:31 celeron55 how about running a full trailing whitespace removal on the whole codebase at some point when there isn't much going on otherwise
18:31 kaeza maybe do it all at once and simply put a hard rule saying no whites... that
18:31 RealBadAngel good idea to do so after stable is released
18:31 sapier by now general rule was no automatic codestyling to full codebyse
18:31 kaeza and kill anyone that adds blank-lines-with-whitespace
18:31 RealBadAngel as first thing to do
18:32 sapier I'll just change behaviour of my ide and then I'm done with this issue too ... imho it's way to much discussion to be worth it
18:32 celeron55 i would hope github would have a way to set limits to commits so that nobody would have to review these manually
18:34 RealBadAngel make a branch, try it, if worked do the same with master
18:35 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/com​mit/a8ffb487048a7fa5f3f07522414e37c8670fba0c
18:35 RealBadAngel so can i push it? ^^
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18:36 sapier hmm can you explain why 128 and not 64 or 32? :)
18:37 celeron55 i'm wondering why not 254
18:38 RealBadAngel because the other values not workin correctly?
18:38 RealBadAngel ive tested it
18:38 RealBadAngel half of the range works perfectly
18:38 celeron55 i mean, 255 actually
18:39 celeron55 well whatever, i guess it doesn't break anything
18:39 sapier testing isn't a good way to decide for a value ... maybe it behaves different on other graphics cards
18:39 RealBadAngel everything below and above the half makes parts of the interior invisible
18:39 celeron55 it's a stupid hack though
18:39 celeron55 it should work no matter what that number is (except 0)
18:39 RealBadAngel oh, cmon, alpha cannot behave different
18:40 celeron55 and as it doesn't work, there has to be some other bug
18:40 RealBadAngel kahrl wanted to detect if pixel is solid or zero
18:40 RealBadAngel but textures have semi transparent pixels too
18:40 celeron55 yes; that doesn't mean that at any point there would be no edge
18:40 celeron55 the edge would be at alpha=1 then, or alpha=128 now, or alpha=whatever the number is
18:41 celeron55 and as the edge disappears in some cases, there is a bug
18:41 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9M596KW1dw
18:41 RealBadAngel take a look
18:42 RealBadAngel this is how it works with the patch
18:46 celeron55 i'm not doubting whether it works
18:46 celeron55 hacks work sometimes
18:46 RealBadAngel i wouldnt call it hack, but whatever
18:48 RealBadAngel it works as it should work from the begining
18:48 RealBadAngel otherwise its useless for my further plans
18:53 RealBadAngel http://imgur.com/5Jiy6mb
18:54 RealBadAngel you should get what i mean lookin at this image
18:54 Megaf_ sapier: Hi, can I suggest Minetest Android for tablets players on my server?
18:54 Megaf_ I will give them a link do download it
18:54 Megaf_ on my website
18:58 ShadowNinja Have travis check commits for trailing whitespace and fail if it finds any.
18:59 ShadowNinja It auto-runs on PRs, so no manual checks needed.
18:59 RealBadAngel another example: http://i.imgur.com/QdPNoic.png
19:00 RealBadAngel and explanation whats that: proper 3d torch model, rdy to use with torchlike drawtyp
19:01 RealBadAngel which will work for any textures given, unlike one proposed by blockmen
19:01 Megaf_ sapier: whats your most updated android branch?
19:05 sfan5 ShadowNinja: or have a git commit hook that automatically removed whitespaces
19:06 ShadowNinja sfan5: Nah,auto-commits are ugly.  And better to do it right than have a bot fix it for you.
19:07 sfan5 no not auto-commits
19:08 ShadowNinja sfan5: Comments?  http://ix.io/d6U/diff Makes inv:set_lists({}) clear the inv instead of doing nothing.  Maybe I should use a temporary inv in case it fails though.
19:08 sfan5 a hook that runs before a commit is made and automatically removes any trailing whitespace
19:08 ShadowNinja sfan5: Oh, that might be good, but is it possible?
19:08 sfan5 sure
19:09 sfan5 looks good
19:13 proller astyle instead trailing whitespace
19:13 ShadowNinja sfan5: Also, remove confusing extra block: http://ix.io/d6V
19:14 sfan5 proller: astyle does not fully support the style guidelines we have
19:14 proller but support part of
19:14 sfan5 it will change correct code if it does not fully support it them
19:14 sfan5 s/them//
19:15 proller https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1390
19:16 sfan5 we won't remove something that doesn't have a replacement
19:16 sfan5 and the indev mapgen is actually useful and nice
19:16 proller nobody use it
19:16 proller ^ about math
19:16 sfan5 that is not a reason to remove stuff
19:17 proller it useless and have 1% features from planned
19:17 proller and nobody exept me uses it
19:17 proller and used
19:17 sfan5 why isn't it removed in freeminer then?
19:17 proller and nobody know how to correctly use it
19:18 proller freeminer have fully changed version
19:18 proller with lot of fractals
19:18 sfan5 why not integrate the good one into MT?
19:18 proller all agains this way
19:18 proller and it GPL
19:18 sfan5 mh
19:19 proller http://forum.freeminer.org​/threads/four-circles.105/ - freeminers ;)
19:19 proller one from ~infinity possilble worlds
19:20 proller it was in pull more than half year
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19:22 ShadowNinja sfan5: So, the second commit's fine too?
19:22 sfan5 *nods*
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19:23 sapier megaf I'm merging ShadowNinja's comments atm
19:24 RealBadAngel sapier, ive answered to your comments in my pull
19:25 ShadowNinja sfan5: Re-did the inventory patch: http://ix.io/d6W/diff
19:26 sfan5 still fine
19:29 ShadowNinja Ugh, who touched database-sqlite3?...
19:30 proller database-sqlite3.sapier.edition
19:31 ShadowNinja Whitespace stripping, right.
19:31 proller every piece touched by sapier turns to shit
19:32 RealBadAngel proller, give it a break, ok?
19:33 RealBadAngel you do have own project to care of, dont need to sit here and work as a claun :P
19:33 ShadowNinja clown*
19:33 proller i need to fiz sapierized code
19:33 proller fix
19:34 sapier fix bugs instead of trolling around ;-P
19:34 proller you produce bugs faster than i can fix
19:36 RealBadAngel claun, clown whatever, *funny* guy that goes back through window, being previously thrown through door, who is pissing everybody around.
19:41 RealBadAngel sapier, theres no id=0 in game
19:42 sapier if this works for game buttons I most likely have been wrong ... haven't tested it so I could've missed some reason why it works
19:46 RealBadAngel go on test it with current Unified Inventory
19:46 RealBadAngel you will see how it works
19:47 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest​-technic/unified_inventory
19:47 RealBadAngel its designed to work almost exactly the same as tooltips in my Xubuntu
19:51 sapier doesn't work on my tablet rba ;-)
19:52 Megaf unified inventory worked fine on that build I tested sapier
19:52 Megaf on my x86 android phone
19:52 sapier well my screen is probably a little bit smaller then yours ;-)
19:55 RealBadAngel what, UI?
19:55 sapier ShadowNinja: I fixed most of your comments
19:58 ShadowNinja sapier: Good.  :-)  Pushing 1346 (player file loading) in a few minutes...
19:58 sapier did you replace the 1000 by a define? ;-)
19:59 ShadowNinja BTW, ShadowBot's server was moved, the move should complete today, so she should be back by tomorrow.
19:59 ShadowNinja sapier: Yep.
19:59 sapier great :-)
20:00 ShadowNinja Oh, and she should have a 1gb connection, so lag should be much lower.
20:01 sapier megaf do you want x86 or mips build first
20:02 Megaf sapier; Well, I want ARM for players on my server
20:05 sapier as of 0.4.10 arm will be released while x86 and mips will be experimental
20:05 sapier well arm will be as stable as a initial version can be :)
20:06 RealBadAngel sapier, what does not work for you?
20:06 sapier it's too big
20:07 RealBadAngel ooops :) buy something bigger then ;) and meanwhile try it on real computer
20:08 sapier what about a unified inventory "phone edition"? ;-)
20:09 Megaf nah
20:09 RealBadAngel it will become possible
20:09 Megaf the default one works fine on phones
20:09 RealBadAngel Zefram_fysh is working on scaling the whole interface
20:09 sapier and don't forget about the "watch edition" too ;-)
20:10 RealBadAngel but till then, 800x600 is absolute minimum
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20:10 sapier you know most tablets don't have 600?
20:10 RealBadAngel those from latest century? propably yeah
20:10 sapier no
20:11 sapier 1024x600 results in application size about 1024x570
20:11 RealBadAngel my tablet has better resolution than my desktop monitor
20:11 sapier I'm not taking about 500eur+ class tablets ;-P most ppl will have at max 200eur class tablets
20:11 sapier and those are 1024x600 raw size
20:12 RealBadAngel hmm, ive tried mt with UI on such tablet
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20:12 RealBadAngel and it worked
20:13 RealBadAngel also, all folks connecting VanessaE's servers are using UI
20:13 sapier ok :-)
20:13 RealBadAngel and lots of them connect with buildcrap clients
20:14 RealBadAngel but question was not how big screen you have but if patch is working :)
20:14 sapier you haven't talked to martin_devil and his 128x128 mips watch
20:16 sapier but that thing is as small we're gonna need another special menu, even simplified mainmenu is unusable there
20:18 Amaz Is there any point in supporting it?
20:18 RealBadAngel yes, we want him to be able to see logo at least ;)
20:39 sapier we're already far more then that rba https://www.dropbox.com/s/x766pt2​mpop3jke/VID_20140622_173023.mp4
20:41 VanessaE protip:  mount the smartwatch on something and focus the G*d damned camera.
20:41 VanessaE and use a stylus
20:41 sapier that's not my video tell it to martin_devil
20:43 VanessaE I know, I'm just saying.  I see that shit all the time.  Hey you!  Yeah, you out there, the idiot with the camera!  HOLD THE FUCKING THING STILL!
20:43 VanessaE :)
20:44 VanessaE (that one isn't aimed at martin)
20:44 sapier but it's amazing I didn't expect it to run at all at devices like that
20:44 VanessaE yeah I know.  that looked like it was actually performing better than my piece of crap sub-$100 tablet
20:46 sapier lol he's not at your spawn
20:47 VanessaE heh
20:59 Megaf sapier; I'd like to try to compile your Android branch here.
21:01 sapier you're welcome ... I suggest doing a debug build as you need certificates for release
21:02 sapier you need android ndk as well as ndk somewhere on your disk
21:02 sapier git svn and wget installed
21:02 sapier and of course make
21:03 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/com​mit/4fbafdb62b6934681d579806a9a5363582b3ef8b
21:03 RealBadAngel better?
21:04 sapier goto ... bäääääääähhhhhh
21:04 sapier :-)
21:04 RealBadAngel SN insisted
21:04 RealBadAngel for sake of one level of tabs ;)
21:04 VanessaE haha
21:05 sapier I'd even prefere the do {} while(false) way to this ;-)
21:05 sfan5 VanessaE: ffmpeg has a stabilize filter
21:05 VanessaE sfan5: good luck getting people to use it.
21:05 * sfan5 meows
21:05 ShadowNinja sapier: But that adds another level of indentation, and the point is to remove indentation.  ;-)
21:06 RealBadAngel sapier, theres if else if, not loop of any kind
21:06 RealBadAngel so break also doesnt apply
21:06 sapier split to a separate function
21:06 RealBadAngel lol
21:06 sapier draw_tooltip ;-) isn't that function already to long? ;-)
21:07 RealBadAngel cmon guys, youre lookin for inexistant problems here :P
21:07 sapier we don't seem to have real ones left
21:07 RealBadAngel i can give you very serious one if you wish
21:07 RealBadAngel located at the very same file :P
21:08 RealBadAngel rdy?
21:08 sapier can someone explain to me why I can run arm and mips android emulator but not x86?
21:09 RealBadAngel checking for optional parameters by examining size is wrong to the bone
21:09 RealBadAngel it works only for client and server with same version
21:10 sapier why?
21:10 RealBadAngel now, if server uses extra fields, and there will come client that doesnt know such fields...
21:10 RealBadAngel kaboom
21:10 sapier no that formspec just wont be drawn
21:10 RealBadAngel you will see bunch of errors and invisible buttons
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21:11 VanessaE http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/mis​sinbuttonsonunifiedinventory.php
21:11 VanessaE specifically, that.
21:11 sapier of course as always if you add new features not supported by clients
21:11 RealBadAngel thus, in 0.4.10 version bump is definitely needed
21:11 RealBadAngel and the whole checkin system has to be redesigned
21:11 sapier why?
21:12 RealBadAngel to allow older clients to connect and use only known fields while ignoring extra ones
21:12 sapier if you connect to a server using a old version you get told about features may not work
21:12 sapier you can't
21:12 sapier there's no way to be forward compatible in general
21:12 VanessaE sapier:  look at the screenshot; unless you can think of a way to make a server that supports tooltips send data in such a way that old clients still work, old clients will finally have to be disconnected.
21:12 sapier this works for some things but not for all
21:13 RealBadAngel theres a way to avoid this in the future
21:13 RealBadAngel but we have to check if field exists, not how many arguments are here
21:13 RealBadAngel sadly we cannot modify old clients
21:13 sapier you still wont have 100% compatibility
21:14 RealBadAngel but with such design, we will avoid such situations in the future
21:14 sapier no
21:14 RealBadAngel ofc
21:14 sapier you can reduce them but not avoid
21:14 RealBadAngel for example tooltips just wont be shown
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21:14 RealBadAngel but button will be still visible and usable
21:14 sapier old clients can't support new features by definition ;-)
21:15 RealBadAngel yes
21:15 RealBadAngel thats why bump is needed
21:15 RealBadAngel and then redesign
21:15 sapier then someone invents a cool_image_button[] voila that one wont be shown on old clients too
21:15 sapier or a type=cool_image_button
21:15 sapier same thing in green
21:16 RealBadAngel we are talking about extending existing ones functionality
21:16 RealBadAngel not completely new features
21:16 sapier tooltips are completely new features
21:16 RealBadAngel that from definition cannot be shown or interpreted by older client
21:16 RealBadAngel theyre not
21:16 RealBadAngel they are extending existing feature, the button for example
21:17 sapier you could've implemented tooltips in a way not causing compatibilty issues ;-)
21:17 lemonlake just make people update, simple as
21:17 RealBadAngel its not me who invented that system
21:17 sapier e.g. adding a new field tooltip[gui_element_name;text]
21:17 VanessaE it's not too late to re-design how those tooltips are done.
21:17 RealBadAngel now, sapier, lets watch you pointing yourself
21:18 RealBadAngel and sayin, mea culpa :P
21:18 sapier yes I didn't realize that issue yesterday too
21:18 RealBadAngel me neither
21:18 sapier but hey according to credit's we're about 10 core devs
21:18 RealBadAngel megaf raised it today
21:19 sapier yet as vanessaE said, it's painfull but not to late
21:19 RealBadAngel so, since i gave you real problem, can you get off my code and let it merge? :)
21:19 VanessaE if 0.4.10 goes out with this current way, or some other mod starts to use these new tooltips, then it'll be too late
21:20 RealBadAngel that system is pre-tooltip era
21:20 sapier I can't remember to have said you shouldn't merge it today ;-)
21:20 RealBadAngel checkboxes are affected also
21:20 sapier ok we shouldn't break all buttons and checkboxes
21:20 RealBadAngel all elements with extended (optional) functionality
21:20 sapier what about the tooltip[] idea, would fix the default issue too
21:20 VanessaE that's a good idea.
21:21 VanessaE I may suck at using formspecs but even I can appreciate that.
21:22 sapier this way you could even add tooltips to different table lines ... no idea if someone would want to do this
21:22 RealBadAngel if ((parts.size() >= 3) || (parts.size() <= 5))
21:22 sapier or dropdown lines ... there it'd be better
21:22 RealBadAngel anything coded like that will confuse older clients in case server sending 5 arguments
21:23 RealBadAngel and wont let client use just 3 of them
21:23 sapier true but that's a fact we can't change
21:23 RealBadAngel and i repeat, its not just tooltips idea
21:23 ShadowNinja sapier: I commented on your commit.  There are still some missing things too, like the enum thing.
21:24 RealBadAngel i can change it, but only for 0.4.10
21:24 sapier yes I didn't change that one because I don't really understand how this questionable style issue should be relevant
21:24 RealBadAngel so client 0.4.10 will be still (propably) able to connect to newer than itself servers
21:25 RealBadAngel until version bump comes in way
21:25 RealBadAngel but at least adding new field to an element wont break anythig for client anymore
21:25 VanessaE why the argument here?
21:25 sapier first of all we need to fix the tooltip issue
21:25 VanessaE just code it the way sapier suggested and be done with it
21:25 sapier I'm open for better suggestions too
21:26 RealBadAngel can you rephrase the idea? because i cannot see any
21:26 VanessaE [06-23 17:18] <sapier> e.g. adding a new field tooltip[gui_element_name;text]
21:26 RealBadAngel huh?
21:26 RealBadAngel how could it work even?
21:26 sapier a button has to have a name
21:27 VanessaE instead of tacking the tooltip onto the end of the button field, put it into its own separate field, using the same element name to tie the two together.
21:27 sapier on parsing you add all tooltips to a std::map<std::string,std::string>
21:27 sapier first string is name, second tooltip
21:27 sapier on adding the tooltip you don't lookup in spec but in this table
21:28 VanessaE a client will just ignore formspec elements it doesn't understand I guess, while showing the buttons with the same old element format they had before.
21:28 RealBadAngel lemme think a bit on this idea
21:29 RealBadAngel first of all i will have to trash 2 days of work adding tooltips to UI, great
21:30 lemonlake is it the client or server that errors on a malformed formspec element?
21:31 RealBadAngel old client
21:31 RealBadAngel not malformed
21:31 lemonlake so yeah, it will ignore them if they dont exist
21:31 sapier RealBadAngel: defacto for client it is malformed
21:31 ShadowNinja https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/issues/1362#issuecomment-46774287  Comments on removing those "#if 0"/"/*" blocks?
21:31 RealBadAngel it shouldnt be
21:32 sapier it should
21:32 RealBadAngel also i cannot agree on that solution, hower only for tooltips it could be nice
21:32 RealBadAngel *however
21:32 sapier how are you supposed to find broken formspecs if it's not checked?
21:32 RealBadAngel problem is in general way
21:32 RealBadAngel any extra field confuses the client
21:33 sapier imho that's by design
21:33 RealBadAngel so defacto <optional> in description is bullshit
21:33 sapier formspecs are simple
21:33 RealBadAngel optional should work both sides
21:33 lemonlake ^
21:33 sapier no as long as client knows they're optional that's gonna work
21:33 RealBadAngel not only the server that uses what it wants and pisses on client
21:34 sapier we don't need to talk about formspec beeing suboptimal ;-)
21:34 RealBadAngel i can change the code to be optional for both parties
21:34 sapier that wont help for old clients
21:34 RealBadAngel and table for tooltips wont be needed and problem solved
21:35 sapier you can't change 0.4.9 code
21:35 RealBadAngel 0.4.10 will be old client in the future too
21:35 sapier if you manage to do that you're great
21:35 sapier still you'd break 0.4.9
21:35 RealBadAngel no
21:35 sapier explain
21:35 RealBadAngel we will be exactly at same place
21:36 sapier so what's your suggestion?
21:36 RealBadAngel but we will avoid the situation to happen again, makin 0.4.10 deprecated as soon as some1 adds new field to whatever
21:36 sapier no
21:36 sapier we don't avoid this by just ignoring errors
21:36 RealBadAngel damn
21:36 RealBadAngel check if field exists
21:36 sapier that's how bugs are hidden and never found
21:36 RealBadAngel not how many arguments you have sent :P
21:37 RealBadAngel is that hard to get?
21:37 sapier and how to you wanna find a broken formspec with additional fields?
21:37 RealBadAngel send 9 of them, client knows what to do with 5
21:37 RealBadAngel let it use just 5
21:38 sapier so you're just gonna ignore a button containing 1000 parameters
21:38 sapier imho that's error hiding not fixing
21:39 VanessaE but the client *doesn't* know what to do with 9, let alone 5 + "gibberish"
21:39 VanessaE that's the problem
21:39 RealBadAngel im gonna ignore not known parameters
21:39 RealBadAngel thus, makin them really optional for both
21:39 sapier but you don't know if those parameters are new or glibberish
21:40 sapier noone ever will detect that class of formspec error
21:40 sapier because server wont check too
21:40 RealBadAngel only thing i know by now its broken
21:40 RealBadAngel and thats the way to fix it
21:40 sapier e.g. a missing ]
21:40 VanessaE come on, just write it sapier's way, jeez
21:40 sapier you'll not find it
21:40 RealBadAngel no
21:40 sapier because you don't even get a error message
21:40 VanessaE and move to table-based formspecs for 0.4.11 and up
21:41 RealBadAngel because it doesnt apply to tooltips only
21:41 sapier RealBadAngel: you're right but what you suggest is replacing a variant detecting additional errors where none are by a variant just ignoring errors
21:41 sapier both is wrong true
21:41 RealBadAngel it applies to any parameter added before and in the future to original defined elements
21:41 sapier but imho better detect errors then ignore them
21:42 RealBadAngel it does detection only when client and server match the version
21:42 sapier yes
21:42 RealBadAngel otherwise its just bullshit
21:42 sapier no it's not
21:42 RealBadAngel ofc it is
21:42 sapier your mod has to specify what client version is required
21:42 sapier client doesn't send any fields
21:42 sapier server
21:43 sapier it's a mod
21:43 RealBadAngel megaf  updated server, installed new UI
21:43 RealBadAngel all the clients GUI were broken
21:43 sapier if your mod isn't usable at client x.x.x but at x.x.y only it's fine
21:43 sapier default is a mod too
21:43 RealBadAngel now add tooltips for mainmenu
21:43 RealBadAngel lol, thats gonna be a mess
21:43 sapier that wont cause any damage
21:43 RealBadAngel client wont be able to see any buttons in mainmenu :)
21:43 sapier mainmenu is local only
21:44 RealBadAngel ah, true
21:44 sapier there'll never be a client getting mainmenu from server ;-)
21:44 RealBadAngel so nvm ;)
21:44 RealBadAngel but the picture stays here
21:44 VanessaE [5 years later] <sapier> well that finishes sending the main menu from the server...
21:44 RealBadAngel for any complex mod
21:44 sapier yes it's ugly ..... but your suggestion is even more ugly ... sorry
21:45 RealBadAngel its not ugly, its flexible
21:45 sapier think about this button[field,field; field;}button[field; field; field] ... for what you suggest that'd be a perfectly fine button
21:45 RealBadAngel when we will stay with current state, we will need version bumps for every new field added
21:46 RealBadAngel to prevent older clients to join and see a mess
21:46 sapier no
21:46 RealBadAngel wanna bet?
21:46 sapier no because there's been always problems with old clients and new mods
21:46 sapier that's nothing new it has happened and will happen again
21:47 RealBadAngel try to use in a mod imagebutton fields
21:47 sapier if your mod doesn't work for client 4.4.9 don't use it
21:47 RealBadAngel like those two booleans and pressed texture
21:47 RealBadAngel boom, button invisible, error thrown
21:48 RealBadAngel no tooltips used :P
21:48 sapier I know about the issue but why is your mod different from others? you can't use mobf 2.3 with client 0.4.1 too
21:48 RealBadAngel my mod?
21:48 sapier unified inventory
21:48 RealBadAngel i dont use above fields
21:49 RealBadAngel i was forced to add ;;;; to my buttons
21:49 sapier yes I know it's not tooltips only ... but we could fix it for tooltips adding additional value ;-)
21:49 RealBadAngel and gues what, older clients are not happy with that
21:49 sapier e.g. by providing individual tooltips for dropdown lines ;-)
21:49 RealBadAngel so what if the tooltips will be fixed but problem stays?
21:50 VanessaE fix the root problem separately then.
21:50 sapier problem stays for sure but at least it'd not be broken for all buttons
21:50 RealBadAngel i said i like the idea of such table
21:50 sapier the only fix is adding a full featured gui engine
21:50 sapier including api version
21:50 sapier I'll add that to requirements list for formspec replacement
21:50 VanessaE provide tooltips in a way that doesn't break older clients, fix the root of the issue for the future so it's less likely to happen again
21:51 VanessaE sapier: inb4 linking to QT/GTK+ ;)
21:51 RealBadAngel so instead of fixing it right now, right here
21:51 VanessaE (or wx/tk/whatever else)
21:51 sapier you can't fix it right now rba
21:52 RealBadAngel i will have to wait for tooltips till christmas 2016?
21:52 VanessaE *facepalm*
21:52 VanessaE [06-23 17:18] <sapier> e.g. adding a new field tooltip[gui_element_name;text]
21:52 VanessaE just.  do.  that.
21:52 VanessaE jesus fucking christ.
21:53 RealBadAngel i will have to revert lotsa code
21:53 VanessaE I know, and it sucks having to do that.
21:53 sapier either that way or live with any mod using that feature require client version 0.4.10
21:53 VanessaE but mistakes happen
21:53 VanessaE no one's perfect.
21:54 RealBadAngel why im always forced to go hard way? :P
21:54 sapier it's not you alone rba ;-)
21:54 VanessaE RealBadAngel: because you don't run a server :P
21:54 sapier I can't even tell how much code I usally have to rewrite ;-)
21:54 RealBadAngel shit and i thought i will start coding real 3d torches tonight
21:55 RealBadAngel i was so close...
21:55 * RealBadAngel sits in the corner and starts to cry...
21:55 VanessaE aw
21:55 * VanessaE hands RealBadAngel a kitten
21:56 RealBadAngel btw, nobody commented out my torches idea
21:57 VanessaE RealBadAngel: you don't wanna hear my opinion on it.
21:57 RealBadAngel i do
21:57 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/QdPNoic.png
21:57 RealBadAngel and with explanation why those torches looks so bad
21:58 VanessaE 3d torches as you propose them are a stupid idea and you're an idiot for proposting to do them that way.
21:58 VanessaE :)
21:58 RealBadAngel ^^
21:58 RealBadAngel comments on the picture plz :P
21:58 VanessaE the picture looks fine but let's see a VIDEO of the flames burning.
21:59 RealBadAngel for that i do have to extrude each frame of torch animation
21:59 VanessaE and THAT will be hell.
21:59 RealBadAngel not really
22:00 RealBadAngel we are talkin bout one animation
22:00 VanessaE three animations.
22:00 RealBadAngel one :P
22:00 VanessaE three.
22:00 RealBadAngel mesh can be rotated :P
22:00 VanessaE no.
22:00 VanessaE you're getting into blockmen territory again.
22:00 RealBadAngel huh, lemme make a quick video
22:00 VanessaE flames always rise when they burn, and any idiot will design their torch animations to make the flames rise
22:01 VanessaE that means making them rise from the ceiling torch as well as the wall torch
22:01 RealBadAngel ah that
22:01 VanessaE and if you rotate the mesh, they will seem to shoot flames out at angles.
22:01 RealBadAngel somebody that thought that torch could hang down from the ceiling shall be shot in place
22:01 VanessaE so you will have to extrude all three textures separately.
22:02 VanessaE torches can hang from the ceiling in the form of a hanging oil lamp.
22:02 VanessaE see Nostalgia game.
22:02 RealBadAngel sooner the better, it will spare humanity more stupid ideas
22:02 RealBadAngel so make a lamp node
22:02 RealBadAngel we are talkin torch here :P
22:03 VanessaE the only way this can work is if you use a new texture with a new filename and NO FLAME, extrude THAT, and use particles to produce the flame.
22:03 VanessaE and give it a new drawtype.
22:03 VanessaE anything that changes the behavior of the existing drawtype is dead deal.
22:04 VanessaE doing that would provide for a very nice looking torch
22:05 VanessaE 10x nicer than blockmen's attempt and 100% compatible with texture packs.
22:05 RealBadAngel huh, somebody has the link to the vid with particles that was posted in #minetest a few days ago?
22:05 VanessaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=​5WnmQYLJzlE&amp;feature=youtu.be
22:05 VanessaE this?
22:06 VanessaE note:  although you can't see it clearly in the video, those particles are textured.
22:06 RealBadAngel quite nice
22:07 VanessaE the textures become evident at around 1:13
22:07 VanessaE er not 1:13
22:07 RealBadAngel yup, vid is 1:12 long ;)
22:07 VanessaE 0:57
22:07 VanessaE thereabouts.
22:07 VanessaE I always misread that.
22:07 VanessaE anyway
22:08 VanessaE irrlicht particles clearly work fine even when there are tens of thousands displayed
22:08 VanessaE and jin_xi probably doesn't have a high-end gaming system does he?
22:09 RealBadAngel i will be back in 20minutes, have to reboot and do somethin
22:10 VanessaE anyways, I'll make a torch that's just the wooden torch with a blob of coal tar at the end and no flame if RealBadAngel will use proper flame-like particles
22:10 VanessaE for HDX>
22:53 sapier that video looks quite cool ... not really like flame particles but maybe it can be tweaked
22:53 VanessaE well those are default irrlicht particles I think
22:54 VanessaE I'm sure the textures thereof can be changed
22:54 VanessaE (as well as the spread/distribution)
22:55 kahrl joined #minetest-dev
22:55 VanessaE here's another example:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-brLc8uUeQk
22:56 VanessaE see 1:25 in the video
22:56 kahrl anybody mind if I correct two typos in comments in guiTable.cpp?
22:56 VanessaE flamethrower effect.
22:58 sapier just do it
22:59 * VanessaE wonders what RBA went off to do ...
23:00 kahrl I guess I could fix #1187 while I'm at it
23:00 kahrl and how about using formspec tooltips instead of irrlicht tooltips for tables?
23:01 kahrl (not sure if that would collide with anything RBA is doing at the moment)
23:01 sapier guess we should wait a little bit till we know how the final solution will look like
23:02 VanessaE as long as it works and doesn't break old clients' rendering of fields they don't recognize :P
23:02 sapier guess there the tooltips are already specified ;-)
23:04 kahrl aah! I can only find one of the two typos now!
23:05 kahrl I saw them like a week ago and didn't write down what they were
23:05 kahrl oh well :)
23:05 kahrl ah, there it is
23:08 sapier http://i58.tinypic.com/2chatev.png I guess that screenshot is better for android port :-) ... looking at a tree wasn't quite good advertisement ;-)
23:10 VanessaE sapier: is there a reason, btw, that the "climb down" button only looks like an arrow and not a ladder with an arrow?
23:10 VanessaE (compare your screenshot to the actual texture file - it looks like your screenshot on my tablet too)
23:10 VanessaE (except for the square hand)
23:11 sapier hmm interesting I didn't even realize that by now :-)
23:11 VanessaE also, shouldn't you move the chat button to somewhere that isn't always obscured by the build name/version ?
23:11 sapier most likely ... suggestions? right corner?
23:11 VanessaE bottom, to the right of the D-pad.
23:11 VanessaE to complement the inventory button.
23:12 sapier no that's gonna be an issue for small screens where inventory slots tend to move there
23:12 VanessaE hm
23:12 VanessaE hm
23:12 VanessaE same could be said for the lower right corner where the jump/climb buttons are.
23:13 sapier jess but making same mistake twice doesn't make it better
23:14 VanessaE true.
23:14 VanessaE well you could put it up in the upper right corner and give it an opaque background
23:14 sapier I had to put those buttons there to get a smooth control ... at least to me ... as I always say controls are beta only if someone provides better ones I'll not stop him (at least after initial version is released) ... it's time to get that out right now
23:15 VanessaE or put it in the control bar at the bottom?
23:15 VanessaE (the menu bar, whatever Android calls it)
23:15 sapier I don't have access to it
23:15 VanessaE damn
23:15 sapier that's android only
23:15 VanessaE put it in the "..." menu then
23:15 sapier ... menu?
23:16 VanessaE the three dots button between the task switch and screen shot buttons in your screenshot.
23:16 kahrl https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/guiTable.cpp#L209
23:16 VanessaE I call that the "..." button
23:16 sapier hmm on ogles2 items are inverted again
23:16 kahrl how would I say "if (columns.empty()) columns.append(a text column)" here?
23:16 sapier if you tell me how to do so?  I don't know android very well
23:16 kahrl I can't do that because columns is const, and anything else I can think of is ugly
23:18 VanessaE sapier: no idea, but imho inventory and chat buttons could be placed there since they're not quick-access in the same way as the regular controls are.
23:19 sapier if this ain't something to be done fast I'd delay it to next version as our target date for 0.4.10 is end of this week (feature freeze)
23:20 sapier btw that all dark issue with bumpmapping enabled is there on android too
23:20 sapier may this be an issue if graphics card doesn't support it?
23:21 VanessaE could be
23:21 VanessaE if preload visuals is turned on, this sometimes happens on some GPUs
23:21 VanessaE I've seen it happen before
23:22 VanessaE particularly with irrlicht 1.8
23:22 VanessaE even if the GPU supports bumpmaps, in fact.
23:22 sapier hmm ahh I replaced that H arrow button by the arrow one on changing those buttons to half sized ones
23:23 sapier btw with ogles2 it's the plain inventory images which are broken not the inventorycubes ;-)
23:24 sapier good night
23:24 VanessaE ni9ght
23:24 sapier left #minetest-dev
23:24 VanessaE night*
23:27 kahrl https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/​0f646721f16d64c6745b6e886ff0f2efa56998a8
23:27 kahrl ^ fix for #1187
23:28 kahrl any comments? if not, I'll merge it in an hour or so
23:38 iqualfragile joined #minetest-dev
23:54 ShadowNinja kahrl: looks fine to me.
23:55 kahrl ok, thanks, I'll merge it then

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