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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-06-22

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Time Nick Message
00:18 sapier checking return codes might cause errors to show up instead of just hiding them ... sqlite backend forgets to finalize it's list statement therefor the following close fails ... if this would've been checked it'd have been found immediatly
00:19 sapier rollback is even worse ... haven't found any code to close the db in there by now
00:35 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1403 fixes shutdown of sqlite3 databases
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10:44 RealBadAngel hi sapier
10:44 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1405
10:57 sapier why do we need the override description bool?
11:11 RealBadAngel to be able to disable tooltip for example
11:11 sapier isn't it disabled if none is specified?
11:13 RealBadAngel if we will add some more parameters in the future, tooltip field will have to be given
11:13 sapier yes but this is true for other fields right now too, it's specified as empty
11:13 RealBadAngel and ;; will mean that empty string is given and will be treated also as override one
11:14 sapier right now empty causes no tooltip to be shown doesn't this work for image buttons too?
11:14 RealBadAngel this is explicit to item_image_buttons only
11:15 RealBadAngel because they do have tooltips by default
11:15 RealBadAngel taken from items description
11:16 RealBadAngel but we need tooltips sometime to hold other info, like number of items in recipe, groups etc
11:17 sapier couldn't we just use presence of an empty field?
11:17 sapier e.g. std::string tooltip = item.getDefinition(idef).description;
11:17 sapier if (parts.size() == 6) tooltip = parts[5]
11:18 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/0XNDya8b
11:18 RealBadAngel please read this
11:19 sapier why can't ppl writ short texts :-)
11:19 RealBadAngel thats discussion on above, no point to play it again ;)
11:20 sapier hmm true adding additional parameters and having default tooltip wouldn't work
11:22 sapier another suggestion would be adding som sort of keyword e.g. ##default##
11:22 sapier I hate having to set two parameters in order to change one thing
11:23 sapier maybe someone else could give his opinion or even better suggestions about this. I don't really like both options neither the two params nor the special value
11:23 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, ?
11:23 RealBadAngel nore, ?
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11:34 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1403 anyone objections to merging this one?
11:35 RealBadAngel ok with me
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11:39 sapier pushing it
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11:42 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/944 is this really crucial for 0.4.10? it's in for so long?
11:49 nore sapier, I reckon this is quite important, even if it's here for a long time...
11:50 RealBadAngel agree
11:51 sapier true nore but there's noone to fix it right now
11:51 nore I know... when is 0.4.10 to be released?
11:52 sapier for what I remember we're targeting end of this month ... I doubt it's gonna be fixed by that time
11:55 proller https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1390 !
11:55 RealBadAngel ouch
11:55 RealBadAngel found a bug
11:56 RealBadAngel enter client tab, dont get server list
11:56 RealBadAngel and press up/down
11:57 sapier thought that's been already fixed?
11:57 RealBadAngel obviously not
11:58 sapier ...wonder how often I'm gonna have to fix this bug :-)
11:58 RealBadAngel till the world ends and then once more ;)
11:58 sapier I hate zombie bugs
11:59 sapier oh that's actually a different one
12:01 sapier ok fixed
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12:05 RealBadAngel ok
12:05 RealBadAngel nore, what do you think about item_image_buttons stuff?
12:06 nore I don't have any particular opinion... although I think that 2 parameters are a lot...
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12:13 RealBadAngel so, any ideas?
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13:40 PenguinDad https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1289 is rebased now
13:52 sapier I don't think that's 100% solution PenguinDad
13:58 PenguinDad sapier: I know that a client side timeout handler would be better for this. But I don't have any c++ knowledge
13:59 sapier actually server does try to send a disconnect but sometimes client is already gone by that time, additionally requesting to send a kick will work by pure chance
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14:50 VanessaE good morning all.
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15:29 RealBadAngel hi VanessaE
15:30 VanessaE hey\
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15:31 Taoki Hi
15:31 Taoki I was wondering... can the Minetest engine currently play midi files? If not, can that be implemented, and should it?
15:32 Taoki Considering the design is foxels and x16 textures, this music format would be very fitting to support
15:32 VanessaE no, yes, and maybe, in that order. :)
15:32 Taoki **voxels
15:32 Taoki Any devs got any thoughts there?
15:33 VanessaE there are already really good packages available for handling MIDI, module music, etc. so that part shouldn't be hard
15:33 VanessaE and those files are much smaller than an ogg of equivalent length and audio quality
15:34 VanessaE (at the cost of musical complexity and quality)
15:35 VanessaE but doing so adds another dependency
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15:43 Taoki Yeah, size is one great advantage there
15:43 RealBadAngel and i think the only one
15:43 Taoki As for compatibility, all I know is you need a library called Timidity installed for it to work on Linux
15:44 RealBadAngel also in fact almost nobody cares about size ;)
15:44 Taoki RealBadAngel: Well, if you do want simple music, mid is good. You can adjust your own sound fonts too and change stuff
15:44 Taoki RealBadAngel: I care about waiting 5 minutes to login to a server :P
15:47 VanessaE biggest module file I have out of about 375 total files is an .xm, "Clone (D.R.)", 3.6 MB in size
15:48 VanessaE median size seems to be about 750kB or so
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16:22 kahrl how would we deal with the fact that timidity is GPL?
16:25 VanessaE how do you mean?
16:26 kahrl well, we can't just call the timidity API from minetest, because minetest is LGPL
16:26 VanessaE couldn't one simply obtain a license waiver or something from the folks who maintain timidity?
16:27 kahrl I guess that's a possibility... good luck :)
16:27 VanessaE (dual license, whatever it's called)
16:27 VanessaE either that or make it an optional thing
16:27 VanessaE use-if-found
16:27 VanessaE then it doesn't matter what the license is
16:28 kahrl if the original version of timidity is good enough, it already is dual licensed: http://ieee.uwaterloo.ca/s​ca/www.cgs.fi/tt/timidity/
16:28 kahrl VanessaE: it does (but IANAL)
16:29 VanessaE well I doubt that old-ass one would suffice :P
16:29 kahrl I mean, even with use-if-found, somewhere in minetest there has to be some call like timidity_play(...)
16:30 jin_xi pls send OSC signals for use with another program
16:30 jin_xi like supercollider server or such
16:30 kahrl shouldn't matter that there is an #if USE_TIMIDITY around it
16:38 VanessaE according to GNU, it's allowed but Minetest would end up under GPL then.
16:39 VanessaE https://www.gnu.org/licenses/​gpl-faq.html#AllCompatibility
16:39 Calinou what does timidity do?
16:39 Calinou VanessaE, blame celeron55, huehuehue.
16:39 VanessaE Calinou: plays MIDI files among others.
16:39 jin_xi plays midi files
16:40 Calinou what's the point?
16:40 Calinou lightweight songs? have fun getting one that sounds good :/
16:40 VanessaE Calinou: alternative music format for when an OGG is just way too big
16:41 VanessaE mikmod is LGPL so that one is safe at least.
16:41 VanessaE (libmikmod that is)
16:41 Calinou mikmod is probably more used
16:42 VanessaE mikmod is for module files though, not MIDI.
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17:32 rubenwardy Why is this in the code? https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/clientmap.cpp#L91
17:32 Calinou does max_hear_distance work?
17:32 rubenwardy Blame says 58bed83d celeron55 / 2012-03-16 / Move ClientMap to clientmap
17:33 celeron55_ isn't it obvious that it is just some ancient unused thing?
17:34 rubenwardy Yeah, it is. Which makes me wonder why it hasn't been removed.
17:34 rubenwardy Forgotten about, I guess
17:34 celeron55_ seems so
17:42 rubenwardy What is 'BS' in Minetest?
17:42 rubenwardy Build size?
17:42 rubenwardy ie:   20 * BS
17:43 sfan5 block size
17:43 Calinou blocksize, sometimes referred as “bullshit” by the main developers
17:43 rubenwardy ok, thanks]#
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17:47 sapier does anyone know a way how a member variable supposed to be changed by a single function only can be corrupted in between calls of that functions?
17:48 kahrl cosmic rays?
17:48 VanessaE butterflies, of course.
17:52 celeron55_ threads
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17:59 RealBadAngel so what about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1405 ?
18:01 VanessaE RealBadAngel: in the docs, "false = use item's description"....  make it "false/nil"
18:02 VanessaE or something implying "anything that evaluates as not true"
18:02 RealBadAngel point is some dont like 2 values for one things
18:03 VanessaE yeah, saw the discussion in the log
18:04 RealBadAngel by now only way to be it just one variable is to assume we wont add anything to the button in the future or tooltip will always be last value
18:05 RealBadAngel the last means rework mods each time we add something
18:25 sapier 100 points to celeron
18:26 sapier it's not been the variable I've been looking at but one used in calculating it's value
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18:26 sapier well and -O3 optimization causing printf debuging to fail
18:29 sapier the good thing about android port is using it at different machine architectures reveals different bugs :-)
18:30 sapier e.g. the obscure day/night race bug
18:38 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1406 comments?
18:40 CraigyDavi Can someone fix this please? https://gist.github.com/Crai​gyDavi/c0fd3be826e7869bd94a
18:41 CraigyDavi Spams the logs with errors
18:50 sapier hmm do you know what happened before?
18:53 sapier because for what I see no regular client is supposed to send this, so I wonder if it'd be better to silently ignore that behaviour or actively kick that peer
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18:58 CraigyDavi By the looks of things it was this which started it: https://gist.github.com/CraigyDavi/c0fd3b​e826e7869bd94a#file-gistfile1-txt-L17-L19
19:00 VanessaE it's deleting players? O_o
19:01 CraigyDavi D: I hope not
19:01 CraigyDavi Although it did see some "unknown" players in the /status
19:09 RealBadAngel sapier, so i will make it a single value with no boolean for it, if we will add something in the future then we will think of it, ok?
19:11 RealBadAngel or maybe as Zefram_fysh suggested use couple of values separated with coma? like position?
19:12 rubenwardy How can make it so players can dig and place things further away?
19:12 RealBadAngel check creative mod
19:12 RealBadAngel it changes that behaviour
19:13 VanessaE rubenwardy: the range= argument in an item def at least works for tools.
19:13 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2222
19:13 VanessaE not sure if it works for nodes.
19:14 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game​/blob/master/mods/creative/init.lua#L125
19:15 VanessaE ah, forgot about the default : item.
19:15 sapier no rba we need a way to do it better then to break everything
19:15 sapier let ppl think about it maybe someone has a better idea till tomorrow
19:16 RealBadAngel i do have one
19:16 RealBadAngel NULL
19:17 RealBadAngel lets reserve that name just
19:18 rubenwardy All works XD
19:18 sapier ok, but someone except us  should agree to that too as it's not very nice
19:19 RealBadAngel but it will work
19:20 sapier yes I think so too
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20:13 RealBadAngel any comments on this code? https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/com​mit/6fe7166d8899f43a24b75b583fd9dba297156985
20:16 RealBadAngel sapier?
20:16 RealBadAngel VanessaE, wake up :P
20:18 sapier RealBadAngel: can you do this without adding another indention level?
20:19 RealBadAngel huh? its formated exactly as it should be
20:20 sapier yes
20:20 sapier but is it possible to do without that additional level?
20:20 sapier indention level 5 is quite heavy
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20:22 RealBadAngel idk how to do that without havin SN on my back for that ;)
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20:23 sapier ugly hack do { break; } while(false);
20:24 sapier no I'm not serious ;-)
20:26 sapier that's not gonna work this way
20:27 TomasBrod repeat until true and false; <-- similar
20:27 sapier e.g. if someone manages to move cursor to nowhere tooltip will show up immediatly once entering the last element again
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20:29 RealBadAngel i dont think so, 1st something has to be hovered, 2nd it has to have same id as before to show up
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20:31 RealBadAngel also this "break" you have seen at least two times in recent commits, and now its ugly??
20:31 sapier no
20:32 RealBadAngel not to mention its here since always, its not mine ;)
20:32 sapier hovered can be null too
20:32 sapier hovered is only != null for gui elements
20:32 sapier those image buttons used for games for example are surrounded by "nothing"
20:32 TomasBrod IMHO you are reinverting the wheel. Tere is a plenty of GUI libraries.
20:33 RealBadAngel we are not using any libraries and propably wont
20:33 sapier yes but right now tooltips are always shown immediatly so if you add a delay it should always work ;-)
20:33 RealBadAngel point is to delay them
20:34 TomasBrod the delay should be configurable
20:34 sapier yes but that should work in all cases not in 95% only ;-)
20:34 sapier imho delay should be hardcoded
20:34 paramat hmmmm a mapgen pull request awaits your approval https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1390
20:34 RealBadAngel i made it behave the very same way or similar at least, as my OS does
20:35 RealBadAngel lets bring here the request:
20:35 RealBadAngel <VanessaE> I will eventually
20:35 RealBadAngel <VanessaE> after you guys settle on a stable API :P
20:35 RealBadAngel <VanessaE> also G*d damn it I want a short pause before the fucking tooltip appears
20:35 RealBadAngel <VanessaE> and it should NOT follow the fucking mouse pointer!
20:35 RealBadAngel <VanessaE> it should stay in one place.
20:35 RealBadAngel <VanessaE> atleast the tooltips on the main menu that is
20:35 RealBadAngel so its done ;)
20:36 hmmmm I really didn't understand why proller wanted to add that in the first place
20:36 hmmmm it's too bad we can't get rid of json
20:36 sapier hmmmm still why remove some feature without replacement
20:36 hmmmm he said there are mods for it
20:38 hmmmm man, I still don't get why proller went emo on us instead of taking the criticism constructively and started producing better stuff or at least putting that stuff in the appropriate places
20:42 hmmmm a more disciplined approach to solving software problems instead of "produce code that does task X" would go far
20:43 hmmmm instead he seems proud of his perl hacking skills
20:51 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1406 comments about this one?
20:52 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1359 hmmmm I fixed the invalid memcopy any other issues in there?
20:53 hmmmm wait, i don't understand, where is the time of day ever set other than in the server thread?
20:53 hmmmm and surely you realize that the lock in getTimeOfDaySpeed is sorta useless, right??
20:54 hmmmm yes, the second looks good
20:57 sapier it's set on reception of a message
20:58 sapier are you sure float assignments are atomic on all architectures? ;-)
20:59 hmmmm i guess not
20:59 sapier i wonder why this does fail completely on mips
20:59 sapier while it's defacto nonexistent on pc
20:59 hmmmm it'd be very safe to assume that float reads would be fine, but not so much for double
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21:00 proller hmmmm, 1390 about removing useless stuff
21:00 sapier hmm you're right about getRImeOfDaySpeed I'm gonna fix it
21:01 hmmmm well, i don't know, it depends on what m_time_of_day is declared as
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21:01 sapier proller why does this feel like you wanna remove all remains of your work?
21:01 proller yes, indev - next step
21:01 hmmmm I think this is like his version of "post blanking" when someone ragequits from a forum
21:01 proller i can remove serverlist with json too, if anybody agrees
21:02 sapier hmmmm I'm gonna create a local copy prior returning to make sure
21:02 hmmmm okay
21:02 hmmmm yeah that's probably a good idea in fact
21:03 sapier that bug was obscure for about 2 years now if it wasn't 100% occurance at mips we'd never found it
21:03 sfan5 let's just not support mips
21:03 hmmmm yeah, it sounded whack from the description
21:04 sapier it's broken on some sorts of x86 too
21:04 hmmmm sfan5, it happened as well when compiled with clang iirc
21:04 hmmmm on x86
21:04 sfan5 hm
21:04 sapier but we never found out what caused it to occur in those situations
21:07 proller sapier, 1406 +117  −95   can you split commits to spaces and code change?
21:08 sapier I'm gonna remove the style fixes completely
21:08 RealBadAngel that day/night bug appears not only on mips
21:08 RealBadAngel on android_x86 its also present
21:09 proller sapier, use automated tool like astyle or dont touch anything
21:10 proller and decide about if() \n {}    -> \n ?
21:14 sapier proller it is automated that's why it's always fixed once I save a file
21:14 proller automated = others can reproduce
21:15 sapier it's not my issue to configure your tools correctly
21:16 proller your tools configured incorrectly
21:16 proller editor must not change all spaces in file
21:16 sapier no it's absolutely correct
21:17 sapier it removes trailing spaces
21:17 sapier and that's what I expect a good editor to do
21:17 * sfan5 throws Atom at sapier
21:17 sfan5 according to you it's a good editor
21:17 sfan5 (it actually is)
21:17 sapier the github thingyß
21:18 sapier does it have code completion debugger build cppcheck & & & integration yet?
21:18 proller good editor must ask before changing something
21:19 sfan5 sapier: it maybe does, look for this at https://atom.io/packages
21:20 sapier download for mac ... you're kidding
21:20 sfan5 compile it yourself for linux =)
21:21 sapier Why does Atom send usage data to Google Analytics? ... failed
21:21 sfan5 where does it say that?
21:21 sapier I'll not install a editor aumatically sending data to google for sure
21:21 sfan5 <sfan5> where does it say that?
21:22 sapier https://atom.io/faq
21:22 sfan5 1) you can disable it 2) it's only for the beta
21:23 sapier mentioning this somewhere and not asking for permission prior doing is a no go to me ... companys using tricks like that may even send data if disabled... and I wont gonna check whole source code for sure
21:24 sfan5 it's not their problem if you refuse to check the whole src code
21:24 sapier it's an editor the only information it's supposed to send is a crash report and to do so it's supposed to ask for permission
21:24 sapier I know ppl get used to autosending more and more but that's not what I wanna use
21:25 sfan5 <sfan5> 1) you can disable it
21:25 sapier of course not, but I'm not gonna use code from someone I don't trust
21:25 sfan5 prepare to delete your github account then
21:25 sapier same as google writing a ssl library ... nice try
21:25 sfan5 you don't trust github and it's employees
21:26 sfan5 wat
21:26 sfan5 have you actually read the news?
21:26 sfan5 it's a FORK!
21:26 sapier that's not relevant
21:26 sfan5 it is
21:26 sapier they don't contribure back and change a lot of code
21:26 sfan5 [citation needed]
21:27 sfan5 they contribute back financially to both OpenSSL and LibreSSL
21:27 sapier no they don't http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Google-​entwickelt-eigene-SSL-Bibliothek-2236224.html
21:28 sfan5 "nicht alle" != "nicht"
21:28 sapier claiming "it shall not replace openssl" is as believeable as chrome shall not replace firefox/ie
21:28 sfan5 http://www.golem.de/news/verschluesselun​g-google-forkt-openssl-1406-107359.html
21:28 sapier of course it's their aim to get the new standard ssl lib
21:28 sfan5 Langley betont, dass Google weiterhin die Entwicklung von OpenSSL über die Core Infrastructure Initiative mitfinanzieren wird. Auch die Entwicklung von LibreSSL wird von Google weiterhin durch die Unterstützung der OpenBSD-Foundation mitfinanziert
21:29 sapier google pays for firefox too ... as long as firefox is significant
21:29 sfan5 ^ speculation
21:30 sapier no pure logics
21:30 sapier as long as firefox is usefull once you beat it punch it to death
21:31 sfan5 still only a speculation on the tactics of google
21:31 sapier we'll see ... but back to minetest
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21:31 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1406/ removed whitespace fixes
21:41 proller https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1407
22:12 sapier meging https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1359 on a few minutes, it needs some more broad testing prior relese
22:14 proller renaming voxel flags adds fps? ;)
22:15 sapier if you did have closer look at it you'd have realized that one flag was completely removed ... as well as 2 3d loops just exchanging one for another ... and yes that's a major part of the total speedup
22:16 sapier cause it reduces code run time for that part to less then half
22:16 sapier and that code is run quite often
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22:17 proller minetest: catching up freeminer.
22:18 proller good direction ;)
22:18 sapier well everytime someone did spend the time to proove your claims they've proofen to be false
22:19 * proller always false
22:20 sapier as you always claim everyone else is wrong you're right some time for statistical reasons too ;-P ... if you'd manage to be always wrong you'd be a phenomenom ;-P
22:20 sapier pushing now
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22:24 sapier ShadowNinja: are you there?
22:26 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1406 merging in a few minutes
23:02 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1408 here we go, android patch pull request
23:03 VanessaE oh my, there it is.
23:04 VanessaE "The Big One"
23:04 sapier +4k lines ... yes quite big
23:04 VanessaE inb4 proller complains that half the patch is spacing changes
23:05 sapier makefile on it's own is about 700 lines ;-)
23:06 sapier adding android build system makefile and there's 1k lines for makefiles only :-/
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23:07 sapier 500 lines of java code
23:09 sapier and 1k code for touchscreen controls
23:09 sapier most of the remaining 1.5 k lines code are fixes for ogles limitations
23:10 sapier see yourself
23:10 RealBadAngel oh cmon, you can do better than pulling such small patches... theres almost nothing in here ;)
23:10 VanessaE Oh I'll pass on trying to read this, I'll go cross-eyed :P
23:11 sapier lol sorry I thought about merging all the last four weeks patches as one but now it's to late
23:12 sapier guess they'd be about 10k in sum but haven't counted
23:12 RealBadAngel can you make a build with it btw? i will try it on my box
23:12 sapier 20140622 is about 99% of it, at least if you've got a arm device
23:13 RealBadAngel VanessaE, i do have patch for your request almost ready, fighting now with one issue just
23:13 RealBadAngel i wanna test it on x86
23:14 sapier sorry it's late now, I'm gonna build it tomorrow ... current one most likely does still have the day night cycle bug
23:15 sapier good night
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23:16 VanessaE RealBadAngel: cool.
23:16 VanessaE just don't break sapier's big patch :)
23:16 VanessaE I believe this thing is the one that's been kinda holding up release of 0.4.10
23:17 RealBadAngel one of them
23:17 VanessaE the main one, for sure
23:17 RealBadAngel i would also like to see database storage here for this release
23:18 RealBadAngel but it seems no1 wants to code it
23:19 VanessaE some kind of basic filesystem access would be useful too
23:19 RealBadAngel that we already have
23:19 VanessaE at least being able to create a dir inside the world dir anyway
23:19 VanessaE we don't have this yet.
23:20 RealBadAngel and it sucks big time for databases
23:20 VanessaE at least not in a portable way
23:20 RealBadAngel this is not reliable in any way and ability to create folders wont help
23:21 RealBadAngel lusers will keep deleting folders too
23:21 VanessaE yeah I know but it would be nice if all mods would be able to keep shit in worlds/ThisWorld/mod_data/  e.g.  worlds/ThisWorld/mod_data/moretrees_settings.txt and so on.
23:22 RealBadAngel files are not nice at all
23:22 VanessaE even if any one mod creates only one file, if you have enough mods, the world dir gets cluttered.
23:22 RealBadAngel this is road to nowhere
23:22 VanessaE so database or no database, some way to push them down a level would be useful.
23:22 RealBadAngel only acceptable solution is a database access
23:23 RealBadAngel i do have 4 mods already in need of this
23:23 VanessaE a database would be nice and all but for some stuff it's just plain overkill
23:24 VanessaE for UI/waypoints, it's definitely needed
23:24 RealBadAngel stargates...
23:24 RealBadAngel chests networks
23:25 RealBadAngel UI in general, it needs to store way more data than just waypoints
23:27 RealBadAngel anyway, until database thingy will be added, im reverting datastorage to previous state
23:27 RealBadAngel and will keep all the data in special item's metadata
23:27 RealBadAngel thus will keep it in players file
23:28 RealBadAngel if somebody gonna complain about it,  gonna say "go code database access" :P
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23:42 VanessaE heh
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