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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-06-16

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Time Nick Message
00:41 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1380
00:41 RealBadAngel ^^ tooltips for buttons and checkboxes
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01:08 diemartin okay, has anyone thought about moderating the server list in some way?
01:08 diemartin I don't think this is desired: http://i.imgur.com/YTKH2f7.jpg
01:10 diemartin (read the MOTD)
01:12 VanessaE jeez
01:12 VanessaE and THIS, folks is why I proposed a scoring system for the master list.
01:12 VanessaE that server should be moderated down to oblivion, to use Slashdot terms.
01:13 RealBadAngel lol
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08:21 RealBadAngel celeron55, hi. lighting code is still in shaders, almost intact
08:36 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1381
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08:37 RealBadAngel ^^ some small tweaks in treegen
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12:50 Megaf_ VanessaE: celeron55; ShadowNinja; sfan5; RealBadAngel; there are two servers with blacklisted addresses. They spread malware and ask for named pictures of players!
12:50 Megaf_ sektori.org Is a nasty thing that spread malware
12:50 Megaf_ http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writ​eup.jsp?docid=2010-102616-4246-99&tabid=2
12:51 Megaf_ sektori has two servers running
12:52 Megaf_ we better find a way to control that
12:52 VanessaE don't highlight me for that, I don't have the authority to manage the server list.  besides, how is a minetest server going to spread malware?
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12:53 celeron55 i asked xyz to shut it down
12:53 celeron55 and he did
12:53 celeron55 now, maybe someone will find an actual solution
12:53 Megaf_ VanessaE: It doesnt directely, but it shows the website on the MOTD
12:53 Megaf_ celeron55: server list still on
12:54 Megaf_ http://servers.minetest.net/
12:54 celeron55 it isn't
12:56 celeron55 anyway, i won't solve this anytime soon, hopefully someone will
12:56 VanessaE celeron55: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&t=9535
12:56 VanessaE not that it helps the actual problem in question
12:56 VanessaE but it may be part of the solution
12:58 VanessaE keaza and I were working on a scoring system last night.  he implemented it in python, but his machine is turned off at the moment I guess
13:02 Jordach_ 404 Not Found
13:03 Jordach_ ^ servers.minetest.net
13:04 VanessaE kaeza*
13:04 Megaf Jordach_: it was on 10 minutes ago
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13:20 proller shut down server list because one server have wrong MOTD? lol
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14:00 celeron55 if nobody is going to do anything to this today, we might as well just bring it back up as it is
14:00 celeron55 i don't really care; it's not a feature that i personally care about
14:01 celeron55 it's a feature for the common users, and if the common users freak out, then... well, what then?
14:02 celeron55 maybe it should be up to the forum moderators to decide if it's bearable or not
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14:10 Taoki Why exactly was the server list shut down?
14:10 Taoki As in, how could a MT server spread malware, first of all? Second, what's the problem with the MOTD?
14:11 Taoki That server list is useful, I hope it comes back up soon...
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14:37 Krock Ok. Who has access to servers.minetest.net? It's 404.
14:38 sfan5 Krock: xyz
14:38 Krock And minetestbot isn't here
14:38 Krock ...
14:39 sfan5 MinetestBot is never here
14:39 sfan5 also please read the goddamn logs
14:39 LemonLake ^
14:40 Krock ok sir.
14:41 Krock ah I see. Jordach ninja'd me
14:42 Krock 1:40h ago
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14:44 Krock uuh. the server list gets a reform
14:51 celeron55 so do we bring it back up?
14:51 Taoki PilzAdam: I don't think you replied last night, or I didn't notice if so. Please let me know if you're willing to help fix that crash with the inventory hotbar Lua function, I really need to get this done so my mod can at last become useable.
14:51 celeron55 to me it is very unclear whether people want it up in it's current state or not
14:51 Taoki celeron55: What's bad about it?
14:52 celeron55 what i have heard is that some server is on a domain that distributes malware (via some website), and some server has a MOTD asking to send naked photos to an email address
14:53 proller need return to old servers-based-on forum system!
14:53 Taoki lol
14:53 Taoki IMO this isn't a reason to shut down the server list
14:53 Krock or like servers.mintest.ru, ask to add
14:53 Taoki All games have server lists, and people can put whatever on. If a server says to send photos of you naked, and you're crazy enough to do it, it's your problem
14:53 Taoki That was probably a joke even
14:54 celeron55 well let's take a free vote between everyone who is on this channel at this moment
14:54 celeron55 i won't vote
14:54 Taoki Ok. I vote that it goes back up, because shutting it down for something this silly is ludicrous. There are probably people laughing at us right now for it
14:54 Krock What would be the vote-choices?
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14:55 celeron55 keep it down until someone does something to it (and if not, then some other day), or bring it up now
14:55 proller I vote for closing masterserver. minetest users must suffer.
14:55 Krock bring it up. update it when a new version is ready
14:56 Taoki masterserver is a great idea and something Minetest needs. How could anyone suggest closing that down?
14:56 PilzAdam I like proller's idea of a forum based system
14:56 PilzAdam each server has to have a forum topic
14:56 PilzAdam otherwise its not allowed in the list
14:56 Taoki Yes, but the master server list is useful too
14:56 Taoki Ah... so more of a whitelist to allow the servers?
14:56 Krock I know much users which don't have a forum acc and found *the* server over the public server list
14:57 Taoki Dunno. I'm against that. We are a free and open project, the server list should also be free
14:57 Taoki It's not our problem if people put stupid things in the MOTD
14:57 Krock People, server list up or down? I vote up
14:57 sfan5 <Taoki> Ok. I vote that it goes back up
14:57 sfan5 same
14:58 Taoki ok, so at least 3 votes for up, and proller is 1 for down I understand
14:58 celeron55 well proller's vote is practically up too
14:59 celeron55 (because it is ironical)
14:59 proller 8(
14:59 celeron55 it's going up
14:59 Krock lol
14:59 Krock fine
14:59 celeron55 (when xyz wakes up)(
14:59 Taoki AAAH, and I failed again >_>
14:59 Taoki I thought he actually suggested that lol
14:59 Taoki And that sounds good
15:00 celeron55 it's good that it was down because without that, we wouldn't have had this discussion 8)
15:00 Taoki celeron55: I also suggest an "official order" regarding how such situations should be handled. Because we risk embarassing ourselves (as in Minetest itself) if the server list goes down whenever someone puts "send a photo of a d**k" in the MOTD
15:00 celeron55 well that's the problem
15:00 celeron55 it needs software which someone has to write
15:01 celeron55 at the moment there are zero ways to ban anything
15:01 RealBadAngel so the devs should be downvote such server to the possible minimum or even ban it
15:01 celeron55 or even sort
15:01 Taoki IMO it's not our problem. Especially morally, I'm not sure if legally. It's just a string of text after all
15:02 sfan5 Taoki: "Mein Kampf" is just a long string of text too
15:02 RealBadAngel but shutting down servers list because of one moron is just stupid
15:02 Kray wat
15:02 Taoki The server list is just a notification system, it takes server settings and prints them on a web page. We have no obbligation to care IMO
15:02 Taoki RealBadAngel: +1
15:02 sfan5 Kray: (it's not an argument, ik)
15:03 Taoki If there is something we can / should do about it, that's probably notifying users about such servers being bad. On the forum / on IRC / etc
15:03 Taoki ACTUALLY,
15:03 Taoki This just brought another idea to my mind
15:03 Taoki What if we could add a html section to the main menu, where news and the like can be printed? URL configurable in buitin or minetest.conf. Though formspec menus would need to know how to handle HTML
15:04 Taoki Or RSS, or something like that.
15:04 Taoki We could post news about changes, contests, and also bad servers like this
15:04 sfan5 >wanting to add a web browser to minetest
15:04 sfan5 pls
15:05 Taoki not quite a web browser, that's too much
15:05 Taoki Just some system to take news from the website and print it
15:05 Taoki A simple RSS reader with icon support for example could work
15:05 sfan5 a software rendering html is a web browser
15:05 sfan5 (RSS is practically HTML)
15:05 Taoki Yeah, I guess I exagerrated there
15:05 Taoki ah
15:06 RealBadAngel text will do
15:06 Taoki I dunno then... maybe a system that can simply take a set of text strings. Maybe support BBcode so you can embed url's and the like
15:06 Taoki yeah
15:06 celeron55 Taoki: basically, it's legally the one's problem who hosts the list, except that i don't even know what kind of stuff europe has that would do the same thing as the USA's DMCA
15:07 sfan5 who writes the bbcode parser? please show your hand
15:07 Taoki With some Lua magic, formspec menus can already do this I think. If Lua (with its builtin functions) can read from a remote text file (like raw pastebin), it could fetch the string then put it in a [label] element
15:07 RealBadAngel as far as i remember mc has some kind of rss feed built in into client
15:07 RealBadAngel with news etc
15:07 Taoki RealBadAngel: The launcher
15:07 sfan5 RealBadAngel: that is the launcher, it simply puts a htmlframe from some java module there
15:07 celeron55 or, well, it's probably the person's problem who hosts the server, but this was in the case that that person isn't traceable
15:07 celeron55 the MT server i mean
15:08 celeron55 but piratebay is basically illegal, so that means this list can be illegal too
15:08 RealBadAngel if a launcher could be an external app then its a good idea
15:09 sfan5 why do we _need_ a launcher?
15:09 RealBadAngel hmm, lets say an app in flash
15:09 sfan5 you're joking, right?
15:09 RealBadAngel able to show html, edit config, launch the game
15:10 sfan5 >flash
15:10 sfan5 >f**kin' flash
15:10 Taoki celeron55: Since SOPA didn't pass thank goodness, linking to a site like Piratebay is never illegal almost anywhere
15:10 RealBadAngel im familiar with it
15:10 Taoki What Piratebay does itself might be... sometimes ;)
15:10 Taoki But not linking to it
15:10 sfan5 that does not mean it is a good idea
15:10 Taoki I can link to it right here in IRC. The police won't come after me
15:10 Taoki Sure
15:10 Taoki This is just in case someone decides to do it
15:11 sfan5 also please tell me how you want to write a >>>>>>cross-platform<<<<< deskop app in flash
15:11 sfan5 desktop*
15:12 celeron55 this launcher thing is stupid
15:12 celeron55 if you want to show news, just do it in the main menu
15:12 Taoki I agree, I don't like how MC does that either
15:13 RealBadAngel it was just an idea, not forcing it
15:13 celeron55 and do it in some simple way; headers and raw text works fine
15:14 celeron55 the server side then is an actual problem; i don't think anyone wants to really take that authority or maintain the news server
15:14 celeron55 maybe if the news feed was a text file in a github repo or something
15:14 Taoki I was thinking that Lua could fetch a raw text file and simply print that. Not sure how titles would be added then though
15:15 celeron55 (actually, having a repo with a text file would work very well for that)
15:15 RealBadAngel Taoki, [b] [/b] ?
15:16 RealBadAngel or something like that
15:16 Taoki Works
15:16 RealBadAngel simple bbcode
15:17 RealBadAngel https://github.com/jnwhiteh/lua-bbcode
15:17 RealBadAngel like here
15:18 CraigyDavi What was this server called which was causing problems?
15:22 Taoki RealBadAngel: Since other developers aren't replying about this, think you could help me out? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1275 A very simple fix is needed to fix that crash, and get one of my mods working, which is currently unuseable due to this bug
15:25 RealBadAngel Taoki, already saw the issue, will try to fix it
15:25 Taoki Ok. Thank you, let me know how it goes
15:25 RealBadAngel propably later today, fixing now tooltips
15:26 RealBadAngel somebody screwed viewport scaling there
15:26 Taoki Awesome! Not a matter of hours, but the sooner the better in regard to days
15:26 Taoki I wish to get people running my mod and see what they think
15:27 RealBadAngel funny thing that resizing works correctly ingame but fails when in mainmenu
15:28 RealBadAngel btw, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1381
15:28 Taoki BTW... talking about formspecs. What does everyone think about adding a hook in builtin, that would allow setting a default background for all formspecs per-game, used unless the formspec specifies one of its own?
15:28 Taoki https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.p​hp?f=3&amp;t=9531&amp;p=145215#p145197
15:29 Taoki That would be useful, so for instance minetest_game could have some sort of formspec theme without having to modify each individual formspec (furnace, chest, inventory, etc)
15:29 RealBadAngel any objections? if not i will push it, those are simple tweaks just, instead of two "ifs" if - else if is used
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15:30 RealBadAngel Taoki, UI is using such background, but have to define it anyway
15:31 Taoki IIRC only individual formspecs can define it
15:32 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest-technic/unified_i​nventory/blob/master/textures/ui_form_bg.png
15:32 RealBadAngel such image can be scaled to fit any size
15:32 Taoki Oh? And that applies to all formspecs automatically?
15:32 RealBadAngel no no, it is defined as background for all the formspecs in ui
15:33 Taoki Depends what you mean by ui. Just the main menu, or all formspecs?
15:33 RealBadAngel UnifiedInventory
15:33 Taoki Aaah, I see
15:34 RealBadAngel and all its forms, it is used also in all chests, furnaces etc
15:34 Taoki Doesn't help me a lot though. Since the idea is making all and any formspec use a default background per game.
15:34 RealBadAngel one background for all, could be nice to just name it default_background.png or somethin like that
15:34 Taoki For example, if I have a workbench mod and add it to two different games with two different default formspec backgrounds, the formspec of my workbench uses each one's theme
15:34 Taoki yes, exactly
15:36 RealBadAngel next thing to add to my list ;)
15:37 Taoki ^^
15:37 RealBadAngel next week or two i will code such small things anyway, have lotsa them waiting in line
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16:12 RealBadAngel damn, at least i managed to get exactly same colours with and without shaders...
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16:56 RealBadAngel finished faces shading feature, anybody wanna test it?
16:56 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1383
16:57 * sfan5 wants
16:57 Calinou this, with my light table 8)
16:57 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1362
17:00 Piggybear87 Could we (the Minetest community) have a swiveled head like in THE GAME THAT SHALL NOT BE MENTIONED? Or is it not possible?
17:01 sfan5 what is "THE GAME"?
17:02 Piggybear87 MineCraft.... Eeew, I feel sick now that I said it...
17:04 * RealBadAngel slaps Piggybear87 with a mese shovel
17:04 * Piggybear87 feels a bit better.
17:05 RealBadAngel sfan5, have you tested it?
17:06 sfan5 RealBadAngel: compiling..
17:09 sfan5 Calinou: 19:08:34: ERROR[main]: generateImage(): Could not load image "dye_purple.png" while building texture || fix carbone
17:09 Calinou O_o, never got this
17:10 sfan5 RealBadAngel: I like it
17:10 sfan5 kinda looks like the sun is shining on every node
17:11 RealBadAngel i also made the colors the same with and without shaders
17:14 sfan5 Calinou: carbone's health bar is cut off by the inv
17:16 Calinou cut off by the inv?
17:16 Calinou anyway, it's often darkened for no reason
17:16 Calinou can't make entities use a fixed light level
17:17 RealBadAngel Calinou, what your light table changes?
17:19 sfan5 Calinou: https://mediacru.sh/ACjVj60tt5VY
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17:28 Calinou nice
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20:44 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/670
20:45 sfan5 ^ someone should take a look at this
20:45 sapier I don't have a powerpc device
20:46 sfan5 I am talking about whether it seems ok to merge
20:46 sfan5 I don't have a powerpc device either
20:46 sfan5 actually
20:46 sfan5 I do
20:47 sfan5 my Wii even runs debian
20:47 sapier meaning you could test it?
20:48 sfan5 uh no
20:48 sfan5 it does not works atm
20:48 sfan5 but that is just a compiling problem anyway
20:48 sfan5 debian uses it in production
20:48 sfan5 I think it's safe to assume that patch works
20:48 sapier yes but as I commented just now I'm not sure if __BIG_ENDIAN__ isn't gcc only
20:50 sfan5 sapier: it is defined in endian.h
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20:53 sapier http://www.google.de/url?q=ftp://ftp.irisa.fr​/pub/OpenBSD/src/sys/sys/endian.h&amp;sa=U&am​p;ei=BFmfU7jzA8LY7AavvoGAAw&amp;ved=0CBwQFjAC​&amp;usg=AFQjCNEgMv07sFHQZM9mSIuVpztz35Ajlw
20:53 sapier not for openbsd
20:54 sfan5 does openbsd even run on powerpc?
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20:54 sapier I think so yes
20:55 sfan5 it does not matter anyway
20:56 sfan5 if we merge the pull it will be broken on openbsd, if we don't merge the pull it will be broken on openbsd
20:57 sapier I'd still prefere a more complete solution instead of fixing things one by one that could be fixed once and forever
21:00 sapier or at least some "ifdef linux" so someone looking at this code will see why it doesn't work on his openbsd big endian device
21:01 sapier but of course that's my personal opinion
21:02 sfan5 sapier: debian uses a different patch now, they use #if _BYTE_ORDER == _BIG_ENDIAN
21:02 sapier so if noone knows a more generic solution I'd be fine with it too
21:02 sfan5 (that even works on openbsd)
21:02 sapier ok seems talking about it was worth it
21:17 sapier any comments to this one? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1379
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22:05 RealBadAngel not much to comment there ;)
22:07 RealBadAngel seems ok
22:08 RealBadAngel sapier, where have you saw "18 multiplications instead of 3 " ??
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22:10 RealBadAngel its always 3 for each tile
22:11 RealBadAngel same as it was before
22:13 sapier ahh it's just 6 cases ... silly me
22:13 RealBadAngel now the values are just different
22:14 sapier just forget about that comment :-)
22:14 RealBadAngel and same for both shaders and non shaders
22:14 sapier btw I could need some help for android ogles2 shaders ;-)
22:15 RealBadAngel i removed some code that made colors different for shaders
22:15 RealBadAngel what about ogles2?
22:16 RealBadAngel so are you ok with #1383?
22:16 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1383 -- Improved faces shading with and without shaders. by RealBadAngel
22:16 Taoki RealBadAngel: Any screenshots of how improved face shading looks like? Just curious about it
22:17 RealBadAngel why dont you just try? :)
22:17 RealBadAngel but sure, hold on
22:17 sapier I haven't tested it but code wise it's fine
22:19 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/eUNfhfN.png
22:20 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/lyXyBVo.jpg
22:21 sapier why isn't floor improved too? ;-)
22:22 RealBadAngel sadly i cannot make comparissions, non-shaders look exactly the same ;)
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22:25 sapier I know :-)
22:25 RealBadAngel trying to find old screenshots, before i applied that to non-shaders code
22:27 sapier ok android with hardware floating point will have to wait some time ... unless I find a way to fix openal-soft ... once this is in mt crashes immediatly
22:27 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/rRYwBxT.jpg vs http://i.imgur.com/pCMwQjy.jpg
22:28 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/6GrCtos.png vs http://i.imgur.com/fAzrVVo.png
22:29 RealBadAngel without effect vs with new effect
22:30 RealBadAngel but actual code is slightly better fine tuned
22:30 RealBadAngel above screenshots are 3 days old
22:30 sapier does the effect change direction during daytime ? ;-)
22:31 RealBadAngel ofc not, it has nothing to do with time of day
22:31 RealBadAngel before top was most bright, rest of faces were darker
22:32 sapier ;-) I was joking directional change is a different feature
22:32 RealBadAngel now top is same bright as before, but pairs NS and WE are darker but different value in pairs, bottom  is most dark
22:34 sapier how much effort would you expect it to be to change dark side during day?
22:34 sapier e.g. east/south morning, south midday, west/north afternoon
22:34 RealBadAngel no point doing that without havin sun position ingame
22:35 sapier hmm true, we'd have to do it configurable in order not to get bad results on space game
22:36 RealBadAngel when the sun/moon comes in such thingy will become trivial do to
22:36 RealBadAngel "do to" lmao
22:37 Taoki RealBadAngel: Looks very nice!
22:37 Taoki Yes, please merge that :D
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22:38 Taoki This new lighting looks like a lot of quality
22:38 RealBadAngel sapier what openal has to do with ogles2?
22:40 sapier nothing that's a different topic
22:40 sapier shaders is our well known "red"-effect on android too
22:40 RealBadAngel i can develop android version of shaders
22:41 RealBadAngel bumpmapping is possible there too
22:41 sapier lets first get ogles1 to fly ... ogles2 seems to be slower
22:41 sapier but of course for high end devices it'd be a good option
22:41 RealBadAngel but for starters i can strip down current ones just to working state with no effects at all
22:42 RealBadAngel maybe just those vertex ones
22:42 sapier but as I don't know anything about shaders I need help
22:42 RealBadAngel i do have 2 android devices, i will try to make them run
22:43 sapier hmm that crash with sound could be libvorbis too
22:45 RealBadAngel so im going now to merge 1383
22:45 RealBadAngel any objections with #1381 ?
22:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1381 -- L-systems treegen code tweaks. by RealBadAngel
22:45 RealBadAngel it is obvious, just asking
22:46 RealBadAngel if else if   instead of    if if
22:46 sapier no just merge it
22:47 RealBadAngel after that we will get into some more problematic one ;)
22:47 RealBadAngel and bugs
22:47 RealBadAngel i found one rather annoying
22:48 RealBadAngel resizing viewport in mainmenu is somehow fucked up
22:49 RealBadAngel tooltip rectangles doesnt match buttons when viewport is resized
22:49 RealBadAngel most funny that it works correctly ingame
22:52 sapier it isn't
22:52 sapier mainmenu doesn't resize at all
22:52 sapier it's just fixed to 800x600 screen
22:53 sapier basicaly for mainmenu screen is always 800x600 no matter how much room is around
22:58 RealBadAngel so why rectangles doesnt match buttons anymore?
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