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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-06-15

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Time Nick Message
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07:31 Krock hmm.. can't see the chat log of yesterday night
07:32 Krock nvm
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12:04 sapier ShadowNinja breaking a working feature on your own not providing a equivalent replacemand and not even asking ppl using it imho isn't the way development of a community project should be done
12:07 sapier I admit you have tried to provide a replacement ... but as you didn't ask what the original feature was supposed to do your try isn't suitable as replace it
12:09 sapier that graphics card does the one with those windows problems have? we know about some intel onboard cards not capable of render to texture
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13:42 sfan5 #1375
13:42 sfan5 hm.. ShadowBot is gone
13:42 sfan5 Update buildbot scripts and add 64-bit buildbot #1375
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13:57 sapier does buildbot now really build minetest AND dependecys or still copy more or less trustworthy binaries?
14:02 RealBadAngel idk
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14:03 sapier it's most likely not a crucial issue but maybe something to do on next bigger change to that file
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14:08 sfan5 sapier: it does not build deps from src, it uses pre-built librariies
14:08 sfan5 libraries*Ü
14:08 sfan5 s/Ü//
14:10 RealBadAngel sapier, https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L996
14:10 sapier you know my opinion about prebuilt binaries especially for open source projects ... well that's something different
14:10 sapier rba? what do you wanna try to point at? ;-)
14:10 RealBadAngel i am changing now image_button to be 5 elements (deprecated) or 9 (+tooltip)
14:11 sapier as long as old buttons still work I don't see a reason why you shouldn't do it
14:11 RealBadAngel old ones will do
14:11 RealBadAngel i mean legacy ones
14:12 RealBadAngel those which came after will have to supply all the arguments
14:12 Krock *bump* https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1346
14:12 sapier I'd not call it legacy, it's perfectly fine not to specify parametes you don't need
14:12 RealBadAngel you cannot say what kind of parameter it is
14:12 RealBadAngel and now we do have 4 extra
14:13 RealBadAngel so either all of them or none
14:14 sapier Krock 1346 needs a little addon,
14:14 sapier of course RBA
14:14 RealBadAngel you dont have a magic ball to determine if "true" is a tooltip, image name or boolean
14:14 Krock sapier, what do you mean? Is it not complete yet?
14:15 sapier rba that's been meant as agreement ;-)
14:15 RealBadAngel ok
14:15 RealBadAngel goin to make a pull in a moment
14:15 RealBadAngel that will do tooltips for buttons, image_buttons and fields
14:16 sapier Krock based on the discussion yesterday(?) we'd remove the case sensitive player name support thus we don't need that strange 1-1000 hack any longer
14:16 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/iSfUTJZ.png
14:16 RealBadAngel like here
14:16 Krock sapier, oh okay. I mostly don't look at chat logs
14:17 sapier tooltips are great, I already thought about adding them myself, can you add them to regular buttons too? ;-)
14:17 sapier guess it's not a big deal as you're already about it
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14:25 RealBadAngel already did that
14:25 RealBadAngel just fields are left
14:26 sapier I'm not sure if a tooltip for fields is that usefull ... but if someone wants it
14:29 sapier any comments to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1364 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1371?
14:30 RealBadAngel heh, i just thought the same
14:30 RealBadAngel i think i will end with just buttons for now
14:30 Krock as long it works,it's fine
14:31 sapier I'd be fine with it, because I already had a few situations where I thought "hell a full explaining text is way to long to be the button caption"
14:31 RealBadAngel i need that because some do not understand icons ;)
14:32 sapier that's not really surprising ;-P
14:34 Krock sapier, is that guiTextInputMenu the textfield in formspecs? </noobish question>
14:34 sapier no
14:35 sapier it's a relic where sign text was entered with special gui element instead of formspec
14:35 RealBadAngel hmm, we do NEED tooltips for labels/textarea
14:35 sapier guess you're gonna tell why we need it ;-)
14:35 RealBadAngel for main menu and all the settings
14:35 sapier in main menu theres a description right next to them
14:36 RealBadAngel oh rly? check the settings tab
14:36 sapier what text field is in settings?
14:37 kaeza tooltips for labels are kinda useless, but someone may find them useful for something, and if it's not hard to do, why not?
14:37 sapier most of this is checkboxes so having tooltips for labels and textareas wouldn't help ;-)
14:37 RealBadAngel ouch, checkboxes
14:38 RealBadAngel but idea stays
14:38 sapier but you're right, for those elements tooltips would be very helpfull
14:39 RealBadAngel about to test something, hold on
14:50 RealBadAngel ok, works. http://i.imgur.com/SEPZjJu.png
14:52 Taoki PilzAdam: Poke
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14:53 ShadowNinja Comments on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1346 ?  The case sensitivity can be done in a seperate pull.
14:54 * Krock just presses *Yes, I want this*-button
14:55 ShadowNinja sapier: I did provide a replacement.  And you added that compatability code with my disapproval.
14:55 Eater4 Hey ShadowNinja, Nice
14:56 sapier well if this was meant as disapproval you might have made that more clear
14:57 sapier still if I have to decide to duplicate 20 files or just fix a regression I'd decide same again
14:58 sapier your mechanism to switch folder is crap because you can't create variants of same menu like android menu which is 95% identical
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15:15 sapier ShadowNinja: I already commented just writing 1000 in there is crap it's not getting better by some random promise to make it better next time
15:36 CraigyDavi I get errors when digging blocks sometimes on servers, https://gist.github.com/Crai​gyDavi/7db9013ae853675c7afe It appears in the chat too.
15:36 sapier seems to be a mod error
15:36 sapier or missing media
15:37 sfan5 CraigyDavi: this is a known problem, nobody knows how to fix this
15:37 CraigyDavi Ok
15:37 sfan5 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5301
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15:57 sapier I'm gonna merge 1371 in a few minutes if there's no reason not to do it
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16:40 Calinou there should be a way to make a node or an entity fullbright (use a fixed light level)
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16:41 Krock Calinou, I really like that suggestion there
16:41 Krock it makes torches brighter
16:43 Calinou I need it for health bars and for fireballs and for some bright blocks
16:44 Calinou also, why is lighting on entities done server-side and not client-side?
16:44 Calinou (makes lag perceptible)
16:44 hmmmm mods need lighting information
16:48 Calinou then server should probably not send the lighting done on entities to clients and let the client calculate it by itself
16:48 sapier positioning of tab header is quite useless for scaling guis, what do you think is better add a new formspec command using new way more predictable placement or replace the current one ... later one will result in tabheaders used in mods beeing broken. broken as of misplaced
16:48 Calinou saves bandwidth?
16:48 Krock ^
16:49 sapier we already send the data a single byte will not result in a reasonable difference ;)
16:49 RealBadAngel sapier, i made also tooltips to always fit the viewport
16:49 sapier hmm did you see my gui scaling changes?
16:50 RealBadAngel this is not related
16:50 sapier ok then what means "fit the viewport"?
16:50 RealBadAngel tooltips were positioned based on cursor position, so if button was close to the  right edge, tooltip was cut
16:51 RealBadAngel now if it would be cut, it will be shifted to fit
16:52 sapier ahh ok sounds like a good way to do it
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16:53 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/P4VXCMc.png
16:53 RealBadAngel like here ^^
16:54 RealBadAngel cursor is pointing search button
16:54 sapier hmm you know you shouldn't write novels as tooltips ? ;-)
16:54 sapier especially not in latin ;-)
16:54 RealBadAngel lol
16:54 RealBadAngel lorem ipsum is commonly used as an example
16:55 sapier hmm I wonder if this gui would work on android ;-)
16:55 RealBadAngel but seriously, im makin code aware of even extreme tooltips
16:55 sapier seems to be a little bit to big
16:59 RealBadAngel funny fact: getTextWidth() is aware of \n and calculates width based of longest line
16:59 RealBadAngel getTextHeight() is not
16:59 RealBadAngel i had to count \n in a loop
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17:20 sapier1 I'm pushing 1371 now
17:20 rubenwardy #1371
17:20 sapier1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1371 shadowbot is offline
17:21 rubenwardy I see.
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17:22 sapier1 guess you want to have a look at it? in this case I'll give you a few minutes ;-)
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17:31 RealBadAngel sapier, http://i.imgur.com/QF19hQf.png
17:31 sapier1 I like it
17:32 sapier1 ah now I know why my moved change keys button was to high :-) bumpmapping is new :-)
17:32 sapier1 ok I'm pushing 1371 now
17:34 RealBadAngel with checkboxes situation is similar to imagebuttons
17:34 RealBadAngel theres <selected> field optional (wondering why)
17:35 RealBadAngel makin it require all the fields
17:35 sfan5 RealBadAngel: https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/commit/6c98fd6658fcf7c0c676ee88f03e​364c852e9f1b#commitcomment-6672665
17:36 RealBadAngel sfan5, that the link to commit. what about it, im askin once again
17:36 RealBadAngel because there are no comments
17:36 sfan5 dumb github..
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17:38 RealBadAngel sfan5, so?
17:38 sfan5 RealBadAngel: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/uqI4ykVuBUNC.png
17:39 sapier1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1364 could someone please test this? It's supposed to not change anything
17:40 RealBadAngel sfan5, it is supposed to work only with this node and rather have to be hardcoded.
17:40 RealBadAngel water surface shader is not mentioned to be used with ANYTHING else
17:41 RealBadAngel *supposed
17:43 RealBadAngel but as i said its just initial code for water surface shaders, it may change in the future
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17:44 sfan5 RealBadAngel: then the nodedef should have something like water_surface_shader = <true/false>,
17:46 RealBadAngel first of all, exact node that is water is needed
17:47 RealBadAngel then we need its top tile and assign shader to it
17:47 RealBadAngel setting is not important now
17:47 sfan5 RealBadAngel: other games may have base:water or something like that
17:47 sfan5 and why do you need exactly water?
17:48 RealBadAngel because its water?
17:48 RealBadAngel other things do not have waves, reflections and refraction
17:48 RealBadAngel and doesnt need multiple rendering passes
17:48 sfan5 oil has reflections
17:49 sfan5 anyway
17:49 sfan5 hardcoding a node name goes against moddability
17:49 sfan5 even if it may not seem useful
17:49 sfan5 it needs a settingin the nodedef
17:49 sfan5 +
17:50 RealBadAngel water surface will not moddable at all
17:51 Taoki I must agree with not hard-coding nodes. Is there no other way around that though?
17:51 RealBadAngel well, shape of waves could be moddable by using different wave normal map
17:51 RealBadAngel atm i couldnt find any better
17:51 sfan5 <RealBadAngel> water surface will not moddable at all
17:51 sfan5 this is not what I mean
17:51 Taoki RealBadAngel: BTW: If you're adding reflections and that's what it's for, I suggest not coding these as a property of liquids either. Solid nodes could find use for the system as well
17:52 RealBadAngel no way
17:52 sfan5 my point is that other games might not have water named "default:water_source"
17:52 Calinou hardcode as little as you can
17:52 Calinou the less, the better
17:52 RealBadAngel imagine rendering passes needed for a mirror for example
17:52 Calinou it's how great projects are made
17:53 RealBadAngel rendering passes for water are made lookin up from water surface
17:53 RealBadAngel and lookin down for refraction
17:53 Calinou reflection of flowing nodes has little use, the important part is flat surface and maybe vertical surface (waterfall)
17:53 RealBadAngel with clipping at water level
17:53 RealBadAngel now imagine it as a node property
17:54 RealBadAngel no way
17:54 RealBadAngel until we start to play on nasa mainframes
17:54 sfan5 it's slow is not an argument
17:55 sfan5 hardcoding a node name is the worst thing you can do
17:56 RealBadAngel im repeating it, its initial code
17:56 RealBadAngel i just needed the way to separate the shader right here, right now
17:56 sfan5 why would it be slow?
17:57 RealBadAngel because of rendering passes needed
17:57 sfan5 all you'd need to do is dereference f-> and get some stuff (assuming setting is in ContentFeatures)
17:57 RealBadAngel each reflection you could add for a node would mean new rendering pass
17:57 sfan5 why?
17:58 RealBadAngel to get reflection texture
17:58 sfan5 ????
17:59 sfan5 I'm talking about if (f->name == "default:water_source")      ----->>> if (f->foobar)
17:59 sfan5 not about anything else
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18:07 RealBadAngel heh, too many questions at the same time
18:07 RealBadAngel and for that i already answered
18:08 RealBadAngel it was the best way i could find at the moment to make sure it will be just "default:water"
18:10 RealBadAngel we can propably find a better way later on
18:11 RealBadAngel but as i said it wont be property for any node, just for water, whatever it will be called
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18:31 Taoki RealBadAngel: Multiple types of water could be added in some games. Like normal water and gray swamp water. Oil and others could use ot tii
18:31 Taoki **too
18:33 BlockMen lol, ottii :D
18:45 kaeza sapier1, does 1206 fix modstore for desktop clients too? or is it specific to something in android port?
18:46 sapier1 no broken modstore is something different
18:46 sapier1 someone reduced curl timeout to 3 or 5 seconds
18:46 kaeza ah ok
18:46 sapier1 thus downloading files is not allowed to require more then that time
18:46 sapier1 that's not enough on slow lines or for big mods
18:47 kaeza why was it reduced anyway?
18:47 sapier1 I don't know
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18:48 sapier1 I'm gonna do a pull request for that fix soon
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18:53 * Krock already wondered why he always times out
19:00 Taoki Aaahaha! It seems I was the one to report the issue with the number 1337 :D
19:00 Taoki Sorry I just found that hilarious
19:01 Taoki https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1377
19:03 Taoki Ok, nevermind, it was 1377 :P
19:06 Krock craigy made nr. 1337
19:06 kaeza Taoki, you are lett
19:07 Taoki #leet was closed yesterday it seems... an issue with the death screen :)
19:08 Krock "Registered users: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], YaCy [Bot]"
19:08 Krock whoops wrong tab
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19:35 sapier #1379 should fix mod downloading
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21:59 Taoki PilzAdam: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1275 Think this is something you can do anything about? I posted a debug trace and c55 explained the problem in essence. It's a crash that causes Minetest and makes at least one of my mods unuseable
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