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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-06-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:22 cg72 joined #minetest-dev
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01:13 RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev
01:13 RealBadAngel hi
01:14 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, here?
01:15 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: Yep.
01:16 RealBadAngel ive optimized shader unite pull, headers stuff is back in core
01:17 RealBadAngel #1303
01:22 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest​/blob/shaders_unite/src/shader.cpp#L631
01:25 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: Looks good style-wise.  I made one comment about an issue, but the rest seems fine.
01:28 RealBadAngel i never put {} for one liners
01:33 RealBadAngel is that really necesary?
01:39 RealBadAngel and why just this one, when there is at least a dozen, half made by me (in this very function)
01:44 RealBadAngel quick search says that brackets are not required by ANSI for single line statements
01:53 RealBadAngel well, im not sure, some sources says different
01:54 RealBadAngel and it looks btw, we are not using ANSI but K&R style
01:59 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, so shall i edit whole shader.cpp or what?
02:12 RealBadAngel in this very file theres no single example of using curly brackets for one liners...
02:17 RealBadAngel well, i have counted it. 29 times {} were not used for single line, 4 times there were used
02:18 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, so what are we going to do with it?
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08:59 k4list4 hey all
09:00 k4list4 im having trouble compiling under MSVC2010, only problem is one error, namely - Error12error C2668: 'std::swap' : ambiguous call to overloaded function
09:01 k4list4 which runs to line 'TEMPLATE FUNCTION _Swap_adl' in debug
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09:01 k4list4 im guessing my problem is due to the 'SWAP' function? if so is there a easy work around to get it compiling?
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10:53 * k4list4 notes shes still patiently waiting if anyone has compiled in visual studio before ;)
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14:27 xESWxDEATH hey guys
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17:14 SoniEx2 can we get scripted world saving/loading algorithms?
17:14 SoniEx2 that way I can test stuff without having to rebuild minetest every time
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17:21 celeron55 make a prototype of that and we'll see how it looks
17:24 SoniEx2 celeron55, well it'll be a config option for devs
17:24 celeron55 you're not going to get anyone to make that for you in any case
17:24 SoniEx2 it's not supposed to be used in the game because of speed
17:25 SoniEx2 oh is it hard to add an if statement somewhere to toggle between calling Lua vs calling the normal code?
17:25 celeron55 wtf
17:26 celeron55 there's no reason to have an exaggeration-based flamewar
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17:32 SoniEx2 sorry I'm kinda mad at some stuff...
17:33 SoniEx2 and I don't know how it actually works/how hard it would be to make it call Lua instead of the normal code
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18:14 celeron55 SoniEx2: at least sfan5 once did a quick hack that on the client calls a lua script for player input
18:14 celeron55 so, for just messing around, it's not hard
18:14 celeron55 dunno how serious it must be for including in a real release though
18:14 celeron55 s/for player input/for getting player input/
18:16 sapier are you sure replacing input is comparable to replacing map storage?
18:17 sapier for what I understood SoniEx2 wants to use the lua coding to do that
18:19 sapier as there haven't been any non comment concerns for about two weeks now I'm gonna merge #1200 in a few hours
18:20 sapier it's last part for android merge preparation ... ok not counting the recent performance fixes but they aren't exactly "required" for android
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18:27 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1200 as shadowbot is sleeping ;-)
18:36 SoniEx2 celeron55, map saving/loading is client-side?
18:36 sapier no
18:36 sapier it's server side but what sfan5 did was client side
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18:47 CraigyDavi Is https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1346 going to get merged soon?
18:51 sapier for sure not
18:51 sapier why only 1000 files?
18:52 sapier why not 888 or 22222?
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19:04 sapier if there's a chance minetest saves more then 1000 files it has to read more and if not that's supposed to be a constant used for saving and loading ... not a plain number
19:15 SoniEx2 why not make it variable?
19:17 SoniEx2 I mean save it to playerfilecount.txt or something
19:18 sapier so playerdb will be broken if a single file is lost (in worst case)
19:18 SoniEx2 skip it?
19:19 sapier then there's no use for that file
19:19 SoniEx2 I never said "remove checks"
19:19 sapier maybe ShadowNinja should explain first what that 1000 really is
19:20 SoniEx2 maybe...
19:21 sapier because as of that function it seems like loading 1000 files named player1 player2 player3 ant take first one ... which doesn't really make sense to me
19:22 CraigyDavi The 1000 file limit is the amount of player files which can get loaded at a time?
19:22 sapier no
19:23 sapier ahh I missed something
19:24 sapier hmm ... no still doesn't make sense
19:25 sapier it loads at max 1000 files called <playername>([ ]1...1000) checks if the contained name is correct and returns on first
19:25 sapier no idea what this is supposed to be good for
19:26 CraigyDavi Hmm
19:27 CraigyDavi I don't see the point in that either
19:27 sapier if it's supposed to be a workaround for broken player files that's just insane
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19:30 CraigyDavi ShadowNinja seems to have over-complicated this then, It should just be a simple, check for the player joining the server and then load their player file, then when they leave unload it. There's no need for anything else really
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19:55 SoniEx2 ShadowNinja should keep the file loaded for 5 minutes after the player leaves because stuff
20:27 ShadowNinja sapier: As a mentioned in a comment, it's a workaround for case-insensitive filesystems like NTFS where ShadowNinja == sHaDoWnInJa.  In that case the second playerfile's name will be shadowninja0.
20:29 sapier for what I know NTFS is case sensitive if used that way
20:30 sapier still while 1000 most likely never will be reached it seems to be quite arbitrary for me
20:47 ShadowNinja sapier: Nope, NTFS is case-insensitive.
20:48 sapier that's wrong ShadowNinja ntfs is fully posix compliant therefore it is case sensitive
20:48 sapier problem is windows tools like explorer can't handle it
20:49 ShadowNinja NTFS is POSIX compliant?  O_O
20:49 sapier NTFS is a great file system
20:49 sapier especially if you consider it's age
20:49 celeron55 but how about the interface that windows provides to ntfs?
20:50 sapier that's the question, can we access it in case sensitive mode ;-)
20:50 celeron55 windows NT was originally quite good, but MS has just left it to root under their fancy new layers of stuff
20:50 celeron55 rot*
20:51 sapier yes that's the big problem ... windows nt os core is way more advanced then linux ... yet it's burried below (fealt) hundreds of layers of compatibility code
20:53 sapier we could use it case sensitive, at least if we can access  CreateFile and pass FILE_FLAG_POSIX_SEMANTICS flag to it
20:54 sapier but I guess we'd cause a lot of trouble if someone copys a world using windows explorer
21:03 sapier I'm merging #1200 in a few minutes
21:04 sapier doubleclick formspec exit
21:08 SoniEx2 ShadowNinja, well try this: lowercaseplayername.txt -> "propercaseplayername lowercaseplayername<id>.whatever\n"
21:08 sapier what about using dns name encoding for playername files?
21:09 SoniEx2 convert to hexadecimal
21:09 SoniEx2 (maybe?)
21:09 SoniEx2 also lets you shove embed NULs
21:10 sapier dns encoding would be at least a little bit readable ... but I'm not sure if it's case sensitive
21:10 celeron55 hex would be a really bad idea because it rips out all usability
21:10 ShadowNinja SoniEx2: That's basically what we do.
21:10 proller punnicode for names - great!
21:10 SoniEx2 ShadowNinja, hmm...
21:10 celeron55 well, i actually have a solution for this problem, along with a solution to another problem
21:10 SoniEx2 serialize a hashmap?
21:10 celeron55 just make the names case-insensitive already
21:11 SoniEx2 ^
21:11 celeron55 that's what people want anyway
21:11 SoniEx2 most games do this
21:11 sapier come on celeron55 that's to simple ;-)
21:11 sapier don't stop our silly ideas by a sane suggestion :-)
21:11 * celeron55 pokes engineers with a stick
21:12 SoniEx2 but most games don't support embed NULs and all unicode chars :/
21:12 celeron55 minetest doesn't allow those in player names anyway
21:12 sapier pushing the doubleclick exit now
21:12 SoniEx2 celeron55, it should
21:13 sapier why?
21:13 SoniEx2 and replace them with "\0" when rendering
21:13 SoniEx2 :3
21:14 celeron55 sapier: it shouldn't
21:15 ShadowNinja celeron55: Agreed on the case-insensitive player names.  In fact I proposed it long ago and use a mod on my servers that restricts case.  That can come after my current pull though.
21:15 ShadowNinja -s
21:16 sapier I'm for case insensitive names too
21:17 SoniEx2 I'm for raw data in names
21:17 SoniEx2 (I think that would be useful for some stuff...)
21:17 proller in freeminer unicode names already implemented ;)
21:20 sapier provide a patch with compatible license or keep silent ;-P
21:20 sapier congratulations megaf your first merged commit
21:20 proller and after year it will be closed?
21:21 proller no.
21:21 sapier of course, if that unicode patch contains some liquids some arbitrary loop limits and things like that too it's dropped after  year ;-P
21:22 proller look firs on your commits
21:22 proller Improve performance by mixing spaces
21:23 sapier I wasn't talking about fixing code style while already changeing code but mixing different features
21:23 proller you have rule about if() {   or    if()\n {   depend on random dice or day of week?
21:24 sapier nope that's shadowninjas rules ... I don't have any interest in those things any longer ... I just don't change it back and forward twice
21:30 ShadowNinja sapier: I've never changed it.
21:30 sapier then you're very bad at explaining them ;-P
21:31 ShadowNinja sapier: Apparently so.  I said that before.
21:31 sapier As I said I don't wanna waste time on discussing that issue anymore
21:33 sapier ShadowNinja: what happened to shadowbot?
21:35 ShadowNinja sapier: Her server's down or inaccessible.
21:35 sapier I see
21:37 ShadowNinja Well, I've got a W$7 VM now.
21:45 sapier I'm gonna merge #1363 soon it fixes a regression caused due to rework of sceen drawing along with adding different 3d modes
21:45 sapier yes I know there are a lot of whitespace changes too
22:10 ShadowNinja sapier: Why the block here?  There are no variables declared.  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1363/​files#diff-3caa81f71bc3ee0838c9b7a1cfcfa6acR466
22:11 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, priv
22:11 sapier I just copied it the way it's been before
22:12 sapier but you're right that's not really usefull
22:12 RealBadAngel sapier, about missing/re-added settings in menu, theres finite liquid back
22:12 sapier I'm gonna fix it next time I have to change something in there
22:12 sapier I was talking about the block
22:13 sapier again? :-)
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22:27 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: Hmmm?
22:28 ShadowNinja Oh, priv == PM.
22:33 VanessaE I'll vote "yes" on case-insensitive names also; I also use that same mod that ShadowNinja mentioned.
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