Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-06-09

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 sapier1 maybe ... if signs_lib abuses some mod mechanisms in a way they aren't meant to be used, e.g. by creating thousands of entities ;-) that'd be a mod problem
00:02 VanessaE try tens of entities.
00:02 VanessaE one per sign and only a few dozen signs around a typical spawn area at most
00:03 kaeza VanessaE, I was reading that just now
00:03 VanessaE one entity per sign, one final texture per entity, composited together from up to around 150-200 characters (if the sign is full).
00:04 VanessaE kaeza: ok
00:04 sapier1 how is composition done?
00:04 kaeza I don't think compositing could cause FPS drops, as it's a single texture that gets modified at load time
00:05 sapier1 maybe still loading those entities is the reason for fps drop ... whatever is caused by it
00:05 kaeza so, "foo.png^bar.png^baz.png" causes the same FPS drop as just "foo.png"
00:05 sapier1 not sure about that
00:05 sapier1 you add a lot of new textures
00:06 sapier1 meshes are sorted into lists by their materials
00:06 sapier1 so you add a new list for each of those textures
00:07 kaeza sapier1, https://github.com/minetest/minet​est/blob/master/src/tile.cpp#L952
00:07 sapier1 that's not what really causes lag
00:07 sapier1 I think more about the meshbuffer creation
00:07 sapier1 there's a list for each material
00:08 sapier1 each meshbuffer (node) is added to the list containing it's material
00:08 sapier1 think about a scenario where e.g. dirt is at the end of that list but the tile textures at the beginning
00:08 sapier1 sign textures
00:08 sapier1 the list is traversed to the end for each dirt node
00:09 kaeza sooo it is an engine problem?
00:10 sapier1 partial
00:10 sapier1 you can always say allowing silly things is an engine problem ;)
00:10 VanessaE entirely.
00:11 VanessaE if I send a thousand images through the compositor, I expect one final image on the output.  that's all the engine should be dealing with in the end.
00:11 VanessaE if it doesn't composite it down to one, it's doing its job wrong :P
00:11 sapier1 but if you say so forceload entities will never have a chance to be added because you can easyly kill engine by abusing them
00:11 VanessaE and if it does it, but it does it more than once, it's also doing it wrong.
00:12 VanessaE well sure, but these aren't force-loaded.
00:12 VanessaE different problem entirely.
00:12 sapier1 that's just been an example for abusing ;-)
00:12 VanessaE of course
00:12 kaeza PS: feature abuse should rest on the modders'/server maintainer shoulders, not in the engine developers
00:13 VanessaE but as long as we're gonna discuss abusing the engine :P  let's discuss this specific form of abuse and how it shows the engine doing it wrong
00:13 sapier1 I agree with engine shouldn't create a new scene nod on each step but that's how it is ...
00:14 VanessaE kaeza: generally yes, as long as it's because the modder is just an idiot and doing it wrong to begin with
00:15 sapier1 most likely there wont be a solution within a couple of days so moders should try to avoid the problematic things for the time being
00:15 VanessaE sapier1: of course not.
00:23 Piggybear87 joined #minetest-dev
00:41 kaeza re: https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/583#issuecomment-15694987, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1075
00:41 kaeza fire at will
00:41 VanessaE BANG!
00:42 VanessaE (why did I just fire at Will?  will he survive?)
00:42 kaeza hah
00:56 OldCoder Hi. I'm seeing requests for actual media files such as GET /media/curl/robin2.ogg instead of the hashes sfan5 had me make.
00:56 OldCoder Was he correct or incorrect that only hashes are used now?
01:03 Taoki joined #minetest-dev
01:08 OldCoder Taoki, you here?
01:14 Piggybear87 Can anyone help? I cannot connect to servers since they updated.
01:14 asl which?
01:15 asl landrush?
01:15 Piggybear87 Landrush and Minerealms.
01:15 asl !up minetest.org 30011
01:15 ShadowBot asl: minetest.org port 30011 is down
01:15 Piggybear87 !up minetest.org 30012
01:15 ShadowBot Piggybear87: minetest.org port 30012 is down
01:15 asl it's down atm so i guess there nothing we could do
01:17 OldCoder Folks, 30011 is migrating to LevelDB
01:17 OldCoder That will take hours.
01:17 OldCoder The other servers are experiencing network problems that seem to be in the code
01:17 OldCoder I have installed curl but what sfan5 told me is not true
01:17 OldCoder Vanessa is not clear about what he meant
01:17 OldCoder Wait; 30012 should not be down
01:18 Piggybear87 It is.
01:18 OldCoder Nope (tm)
01:18 OldCoder People are on it right now
01:18 Piggybear87 !up minetest.org 30012
01:18 OldCoder !up minetest.org 30012
01:18 ShadowBot Piggybear87: minetest.org port 30012 is down
01:18 ShadowBot OldCoder: minetest.org port 30012 is down
01:18 OldCoder Interesting
01:18 OldCoder Miles Dyson is hard at work
01:19 OldCoder Right this moment
01:19 OldCoder Is this a bug in the server's network code?
01:19 OldCoder And not related to media at all?
01:19 asl curl is just a program to download stuff using the http protocol, something like wget, it shouldn't really effect the way minetest works
01:19 OldCoder I can try to revert the git code to a few days ago
01:19 asl ~up minetest.org 30012
01:19 ShadowBot asl: minetest.org port 30012 is down
01:19 OldCoder But it is up right now
01:20 OldCoder Checking git log
01:21 OldCoder Interesting. I show few commits recently.
01:21 OldCoder Who can tell me how to do a revert?
01:21 asl git revert?
01:21 asl git reset --hard HEAD^
01:22 asl two ^ for back 2 commits, three for 3 commits, and so on
01:24 cg72 joined #minetest-dev
01:25 CraigyDavi_ joined #minetest-dev
01:33 VanessaE joined #minetest-dev
01:36 OldCoder asl I shall try that
01:38 VanessaE joined #minetest-dev
01:40 OldCoder Piggybear87, when you press Escape does it say USE_CURL=1 ?
01:40 Piggybear87 Yes, yes it does.
01:40 OldCoder kk
01:41 OldCoder Piggybear87, I can't really do anything unless devs will talk to me. I am building a server with recent changes removed.
01:41 sapier1 I'd suggest not usin curl but for what I know you can't disable it on runtime
01:41 OldCoder sapier1, without curl they can't connect
01:42 sapier1 ?
01:42 OldCoder sapier1, suddenly nobody could connect
01:42 OldCoder To any world
01:42 OldCoder It stopped halfway thru media
01:42 OldCoder People told me
01:42 sapier1 what versions?
01:42 Piggybear87 I'm trying the Windows version of stable to see if that works, AFTER Wine installs. If that works, it's the latest git that's the problem.
01:42 OldCoder MT no longer works without curl
01:42 OldCoder sfan5 said to run his script to make hashes
01:42 sapier1 stable?
01:42 Piggybear87 0.4.9-stable
01:42 sapier1 come on stable is broken for ages
01:43 OldCoder They just want to play
01:43 asl piggybear, try building from the older commit from the git, the one i am using should work
01:43 sapier1 stable was broken on transmission of textures for quite some time, I fixed this about 3-4 months ago, as of that time non curl is almost as fast as curl mode
01:44 OldCoder Well, today they stopped being able to connect
01:44 OldCoder sfan5 and others
01:44 OldCoder said to set up curl
01:44 OldCoder It just stops halfway through media
01:44 OldCoder Suggestions are welcome
01:44 OldCoder I am reverting the server back a month
01:45 sapier1 don't do that
01:45 OldCoder What do you suggest?
01:45 sapier1 first of all find out what version those ppl use
01:45 OldCoder Piggybear87, ^
01:45 Piggybear87 The newest PPA for me.
01:45 OldCoder he says "latest PPA"
01:45 sapier1 that's as saying "I use something"
01:45 OldCoder Heh
01:45 OldCoder Go on
01:45 Piggybear87 The PPA that was released TODAY.
01:46 sapier1 minetest doesn't release ANY ppa so that version is built by someone else
01:46 sapier1 based on some version that one decided to use
01:46 OldCoder sapier1, what client should he use?
01:47 sapier1 you should see the git hash on upper left corner can you post it
01:47 sapier1 ?
01:47 sapier1 if your server is on latest master users should use latest master ... this is quit inconveniant I know but that's the way to go on bleeding edge code
01:48 sapier1 still if there was some change in behaviour we should find out why it did change
01:48 sapier1 did you do an update lately oldcoder?
01:48 OldCoder Probably rebuilt from git
01:48 OldCoder sapier1, I'll try building him a client myself
01:49 OldCoder Piggybear87, are you Windows? Ubuntu?
01:49 Piggybear87 Lubuntu.
01:49 OldCoder Hm; sorry. I don't think I can cross-build.
01:49 sapier1 can you provide a link to the source of your ppa?
01:49 OldCoder Just for Windows.
01:49 Piggybear87 One sec sapier1.
01:50 Piggybear87 sapier1, https://code.launchpad.net/~minetestdev​s/+archive/daily-builds/+packages?field​.name_filter=&field.status_filter=p​ublished&field.series_filter=trusty
01:50 Piggybear87 11 hours ago.
01:52 sapier1 ok that seems to be latest master
01:52 Piggybear87 Like I was saying...
01:52 sapier1 ok then next question what's been the last version to work for you?
01:53 Piggybear87 It started with an "f"
01:53 OldCoder f?
01:53 OldCoder Um; the hash?
01:54 Piggybear87 minetest-minetest-f<something>
01:54 OldCoder Is anybody else having problems ATM with my world 30012?
01:55 sapier1 well it might be f70e ... I suggest getting that version and check it ... if oldcoder changes his server and you change your client you'll never find the bug
01:55 OldCoder sapier1, I restarted git-latest
01:55 Piggybear87 I'm not self compiling anymore, I can't get an older client.
01:57 sapier1 well that's a problem
01:57 sapier1 do others have same issue you have?
01:58 Piggybear87 Yes, quite a few from what I've heard.
01:58 OldCoder Piggybear87, "what I've heard" is anecdotal
01:58 OldCoder Is *anybody* else having problems?
01:58 Piggybear87 What I've read.
01:59 OldCoder Which is basically Vazon?
01:59 OldCoder Repeating what you said?
01:59 sapier1 old client used to have the hang issue
01:59 OldCoder No offense
01:59 OldCoder Hm
01:59 OldCoder Piggybear87, I'd like to see you build a new client
01:59 sapier1 so there's a big difference if we're talking about recent clients or old ones e.g. buildcraft ones
02:00 Piggybear87 If I have the latest master, then, making a client would net me the same thing I have...
02:01 OldCoder Not necessarily. sapier1 what might you suggest?
02:01 sapier1 oldcoder minetest.org 30012?
02:01 OldCoder Yes
02:02 OldCoder Running git-current
02:02 OldCoder AND curlk
02:02 OldCoder AND curl *
02:02 OldCoder though sfan5 instructions do not match up with what clients do
02:04 OldCoder Trying it myself with renamed cache
02:05 OldCoder sapier1, it seems pretty slow
02:05 Piggybear87 For some reason I can't login as root OR sudo...
02:05 OldCoder Not stopped, though
02:05 OldCoder Login to what?
02:05 Piggybear87 Terminal, so I can make a client.
02:05 sapier1 hmm I got all textures ... need to disable preload
02:05 OldCoder Is there a setting?
02:06 Piggybear87 For?
02:06 OldCoder Disable preload, sapier1
02:06 sapier1 preload_item_visuals = false
02:06 OldCoder Is this the problem?
02:07 OldCoder And is that a server side setting?
02:07 sapier1 no
02:07 OldCoder Then no fix :(
02:07 OldCoder Is this the problem?
02:07 asl preloading is always a bad idea on 512mb of ram
02:07 sapier1 it's a client setting and I just tried an old client to be sure
02:08 OldCoder Is there a patch I can make to the server code?
02:08 sapier1 now latest one
02:08 sapier1 for what I see nothing related to network code changed recently
02:08 OldCoder Is the preload issue the problem?
02:08 OldCoder What is happening?
02:09 Piggybear87 Brb
02:09 sapier1 sad to tell but works for me
02:09 OldCoder kk
02:09 asl preloading double/triple the loading time
02:09 sapier1 I can connect using latest as well as old clients
02:09 OldCoder Clarify? Are all clients preloading?
02:10 OldCoder Is this the problem?
02:10 sapier1 no it isn't
02:10 OldCoder You said; got all textures?
02:10 sapier1 it's just annoying slow on startup
02:10 OldCoder He claims that he and GF waited a long time
02:10 sapier1 yes I got all textures even on using curl
02:10 OldCoder So this *is* a problem
02:10 OldCoder Is there a patch I can make on the server side?
02:10 OldCoder To disable preloading?
02:10 sapier1 we don't even know what version she used
02:11 sapier1 no it's a client only setting
02:11 sapier1 no way to fix it server side
02:11 OldCoder I mean...
02:11 OldCoder Ah
02:11 OldCoder So even if I modify the code?
02:11 OldCoder So, no solution
02:11 sapier1 you can't do anything as of that issue
02:11 OldCoder Too bad
02:11 Piggybear87 joined #minetest-dev
02:11 OldCoder Why did it get worse?
02:11 sapier1 if preloading items was the issue (I doubt it was) you can't do anything
02:11 OldCoder It was perceived to have done so
02:12 sapier1 but I'm not sure it was
02:12 asl cause he remove the 256mb of ram is my guess
02:12 OldCoder Piggybear87, exactly how long did you wait?
02:12 OldCoder And asl what do you mean?
02:12 OldCoder Did he modify his system?
02:13 sapier1 possible, e.g. firewall settings, proxy configuration ... things like that
02:13 OldCoder Hm. So this could be a genuine and serious issue. Or anecdotal rumor.
02:13 asl originally piggybear said he got 768mb of ram (256+512), then someone i think is VanessaE said to try to remove the 256mb of ram
02:13 Piggybear87 I waited until the machine slept, !10 minutes.
02:13 sapier1 possible but without further information no chance to decide
02:13 asl and see what happen
02:13 OldCoder Multiple people claimed that clients were simply locking up suddenly halfway through. But no way to be sure.
02:14 OldCoder Very well. Can do nothing without more people reporting.
02:14 OldCoder asl, try it without a cache when you can.
02:14 asl i just did
02:14 sapier1 OldCoder I know old clients to behave that way on not using curl
02:14 OldCoder Yes
02:14 OldCoder Aiming for new ones
02:14 Piggybear87 And asl, I never took out the RAM, I forgot about it.
02:15 sapier1 I've never seen a new one to lockup that way ... a lot of ppl claimed but any one I had chance to track down was something completely different or even an old one
02:15 OldCoder Piggybear87, try the disable setting
02:15 OldCoder listed above
02:15 sapier1 but that doesn't proove new one doesn't have that bug
02:15 OldCoder Did you get it?
02:15 OldCoder sapier1, agreed that more information will be needed
02:16 OldCoder preload_item_visuals = false
02:16 OldCoder ^ Piggybear87
02:16 Piggybear87 The preload? I turn that off before I launch the game the first time. My computer can't handle it.
02:16 asl i bet most of those people didn't wait pass 10 mins
02:16 OldCoder Very well
02:16 OldCoder asl, who exactly has waited 10 minutes?
02:16 OldCoder How long *should* it take?
02:16 werwerwer joined #minetest-dev
02:16 asl it took i think 15 mins for me to join after renaming the cache
02:16 OldCoder So this is a known and highly regrettable issue
02:17 asl landrush took 20mins iirc when i first join
02:17 OldCoder But it was only 3 minutes for me just now
02:17 asl you are closer to your server i think
02:17 OldCoder But didn't Piggybear87 get in successfully before?
02:17 OldCoder So what happened to him?
02:17 sapier1 oldcoder what's uplink bandwidth of your server?
02:17 OldCoder Pretty fast. I don't recall. It's a cloud services level system.
02:17 asl internet is a unstable thing
02:18 OldCoder asl, he shouldn't have locked up if he had a cache
02:18 Piggybear87 asl, not me. LAndrush started right away for me the first time.
02:18 asl somedays i just can't join, others it work fine
02:18 OldCoder Folks, I can't spend more time on this today
02:18 OldCoder Need to move on
02:18 OldCoder Exhausted after a lively few months
02:18 OldCoder I'll finish migrating Landrush to LevelDB
02:19 asl finally :D
02:19 OldCoder I suggest Piggybear87 try a different PC, more RAM, and building a client
02:19 OldCoder It's at 90% asl
02:19 asl oh
02:19 OldCoder Um; 90% is good?
02:19 OldCoder Hopefully just a little longer. If it broke might be down all night but need to do this.
02:20 OldCoder Speed is good
02:20 Piggybear87 OldCoder, Gonna send me money to buy a new machine? That's the only way I can try a different PC.
02:20 OldCoder Piggybear87, Gonna send me money to host this thing? It actually does cost money and I have none.
02:20 * OldCoder did not intend to sound sharp
02:20 asl i would chose lighting instead of leveldb/sql if i could
02:20 OldCoder Is that an option?
02:20 OldCoder What are pros and cons
02:20 asl nope
02:21 asl lighting is the fastest db or so some people claim
02:21 sapier1 hmm I just tried using non curl mode too ... no issue
02:21 OldCoder asl, it depends on purpose
02:21 OldCoder sapier1, thank you for your time. It was really slow for me without cache even with curl.
02:21 Piggybear87 Well you suggested that I try a differnt PC, I cannot do that without money, I flat broke and have a 4 month old...
02:21 OldCoder Not locked up, though. This ought to be the #1 development priority.
02:22 OldCoder Piggybear87, I am sorry to hear it but if you knew of my life; never mind
02:22 sapier1 well I felt it beeing faster without curl, but I'm biased as I fixed that code
02:22 OldCoder sapier1, thank you for your time. Is there any chance of making the long delays of 20+ minutes for some people the #1 priority?
02:22 OldCoder This *has* been a problem since I joined the project
02:23 OldCoder 2 years now
02:23 OldCoder With or without curl
02:23 sapier1 for initial join I don't see a way to fix it
02:23 OldCoder The protocol can't be fixed up?
02:23 OldCoder Should it take 10-20 minutes?
02:23 sapier1 no because any high speed sending will cause lag for other players
02:23 OldCoder How about medium speed?
02:23 OldCoder And default to no preload on client side?
02:23 sapier1 well it's quite fast for most players
02:24 OldCoder I have never seen loads fast
02:24 sapier1 I cleared cache and joined within less then 5 min
02:24 OldCoder Hm
02:24 OldCoder So it comes down to the time that is acceptable. Perhaps this could be more clearly documented; load screen should warn people.
02:24 sapier1 I know about packet loss on your line causing a download to become really really slow
02:24 OldCoder Also preload should be off by default; is this reasonable?
02:24 sapier1 but that's hard do fix
02:25 OldCoder I do have a technical suggestion
02:25 sapier1 imho yes preload should be off I don't actually know why it's still on
02:25 OldCoder Send files as bundles. File by file for such small files in some cases is really slow; correct?
02:26 sapier1 in theory yes but in practice that's not the issue
02:26 Piggybear87 I got this in Terminal and it wont go away
02:26 Piggybear87 END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
02:26 Piggybear87 Ideas?
02:26 OldCoder sapier1, I see this as the make or break issue in competition with MC.
02:26 OldCoder ???
02:26 OldCoder WTF? You are Lubuntu, right?
02:26 asl lol, that's why i don't use MICROSOFT stuff
02:26 Piggybear87 Yes, I tried to install Wine and it froze.
02:26 OldCoder sapier1, you have been generous with your time
02:26 asl they lock up stuff
02:26 OldCoder sapier1, no further questions for now except this:
02:26 asl if anyone want to know more about lighting, look here: http://symas.com/mdb/
02:27 OldCoder sapier1, (a) I suggest preload off by default (b) I suggest load screen say "FIRST CONNECT MAY TAKE 15 MINUTES". These two changes would help a lot.
02:27 Piggybear87 I cannot use Terminal now because of this. If I have to reinstall Lubuntu I am pouring soda all over the motherboard.
02:27 OldCoder Piggybear87, this is a topic for #minetest and not #minetest-dev
02:28 sapier1 a reasonable suggestion oldcoder true
02:28 Piggybear87 I'm trying to get a new client like you said, I need help from this channel to help see if old clients work better...
02:28 OldCoder I would like humbly to suggest both (a) and (b) to the devs
02:28 OldCoder Piggybear87, I will join you over in #minetest. I should warn you that this channel is finicky about off-topic.
02:29 OldCoder
02:29 Piggybear87 Then I will not help this little experiment...
02:29 OldCoder Piggybear87, do not be distressed; I will PM shortly.
02:29 OldCoder sapier1, thank you again!
02:30 sapier1 left #minetest-dev
02:44 ShadowNinja joined #minetest-dev
02:44 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/hNHrgRvh
02:44 RealBadAngel ooops
02:52 OldCoder RealBadAngel, Hi
03:26 zat joined #minetest-dev
03:27 zat1 joined #minetest-dev
03:32 CraigyDavi__ joined #minetest-dev
04:03 CraigyDavi joined #minetest-dev
04:16 CraigyDavi_ joined #minetest-dev
04:37 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
04:52 Miner_48er will sqlite3 remain supported in future versions?
05:14 nore joined #minetest-dev
05:35 CraigyDavi joined #minetest-dev
05:39 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
06:20 nore Can someone check that please? https://github.com/Novatux/minetest/commit​/e17d29ccd608a654c3038bf35f5ca710e5ef0db8
06:26 darkrose joined #minetest-dev
06:26 darkrose joined #minetest-dev
06:36 Weedy joined #minetest-dev
07:07 nore Merging https://github.com/Novatux/minetest/commit​/e17d29ccd608a654c3038bf35f5ca710e5ef0db8 in one hour if no one disagrees
07:08 sfan5 that looks fine
07:08 sfan5 but I don't know anything of the clouds stuff
07:08 sfan5 so I can't verify that it is correct (w/o testing)
07:09 nore Well it works, and the source of the bug was that the bounding box for clouds was not changed when camera offset was changed
07:09 sfan5 if it works go ahead
07:09 nore ok
07:11 nore done
07:58 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
07:58 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
07:58 Weedy joined #minetest-dev
07:58 Weedy joined #minetest-dev
07:59 Weedy_ joined #minetest-dev
08:00 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
08:00 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
08:01 Fresh_me_ joined #minetest-dev
08:03 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
08:03 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
08:04 Weedy joined #minetest-dev
08:04 Weedy joined #minetest-dev
08:08 dsimon joined #minetest-dev
08:18 diemartin joined #minetest-dev
08:30 ligeti joined #minetest-dev
08:35 restcoser joined #minetest-dev
08:50 sapier joined #minetest-dev
08:53 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
08:57 Amaz_ joined #minetest-dev
09:06 ligeti joined #minetest-dev
09:08 PenguinDad joined #minetest-dev
09:36 Garmine joined #minetest-dev
09:43 sfan5 ~tell ShadowNinja why do we have an RFC tag?
09:43 ShadowBot sfan5: O.K.
10:18 proller joined #minetest-dev
10:36 PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev
11:15 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
11:16 smoke_fumus joined #minetest-dev
11:20 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
11:31 sapier celeron55 I can't find any location except of addArea using the NOT_LOADED flag ... and there it seems to be used to skip unloaded areas only ... I'm not exactly sure but wouldn't it be better to just copy unloaded areas if it's faster then skipping them?
11:33 celeron55 umm... dunno
11:33 celeron55 http://i.imgur.com/PsoQC48.png
11:33 celeron55 i generated this when trying doxygen
11:33 sapier of course in worst case scenario lower left node is set and upper right one for a voxelmanip beeing 10000x10000x1000 copying everything is wors then skipping
11:33 celeron55 it sheds some light to this issue; looks like VM::addArea is used by two other things too
11:34 sapier yes I had a look at it
11:34 celeron55 (the MeshMakeData ones)
11:36 celeron55 the original use case for VoxelManipulator and MapVoxelManipulator was an initial water implementation
11:37 sapier is it used any longer?
11:37 celeron55 it was a finite one which needed speedy access for weirdly propagating air bubbles through water and that's why it used automatic emerge too
11:37 celeron55 no, it was used only for like two months many years ago
11:37 vifino joined #minetest-dev
11:38 sapier hmmm  ... for what I understand the approach of looping twice through a possibly big 3d array doesn't seem to be very wise to me ... but I don't know if there's another way to do it
11:39 sapier especially as everything is set by assignment operators in this loop instead of memcpy which usually is highly optimized
11:40 sapier I haven't found any issue, do you have a hint what to test in order to find possible bugs?
11:41 celeron55 have you invoked all the things that are visible in that graph
11:42 sapier hard to tell :-) ... hmm placing breakpoints in there could tell
11:42 Megaf joined #minetest-dev
11:42 CraigyDavi_ joined #minetest-dev
11:42 celeron55 most of that gets done if you start a new world and start a singleplayer game in it
11:43 celeron55 will you be removing ManualVoxelManipulator?
11:43 celeron55 wait
11:43 celeron55 i mean MapVoxelManipulator
11:43 sapier I haven't removed it yet by now I just removed emerge ... no use for a function calling another function
11:44 celeron55 i don't mean that one, that's in ManualMapVoxelManipulator
11:44 sapier creating a new world is my regular testcase for this optimizations
11:45 sapier I always use same seed too to be at least somehow compareable ... yet random player pos is an issue
11:48 celeron55 there could be some kind of issue related to schematics and treegen, in some corner case
11:48 celeron55 that would be serious as the end result would get saved on disk
11:49 celeron55 the client stuff is not a concern at this point
11:49 celeron55 also lighting might still screw up in some weird case?
11:49 celeron55 which is saved too
11:50 celeron55 not that it would be terribly reliable anyway, but 8)
11:51 celeron55 whatever; if you're ready to quickly fix any problems that arise, i'm fine with it
11:51 sapier well I don't know how bad it would be but switching from a slow glitchy solution to a fast (equaly) glitchy one sounds like an option to me
11:52 sapier of course if new one is way more bad that's completely different
11:55 Taoki OldCoder: Back now. Hi
12:18 sapier removing MapVoxelManipulator isn't a big deal, the only one using it is ManualVoxelManipulator
12:18 celeron55 wait, what
12:19 celeron55 in that case don't remove it
12:19 sapier ManualVoxelManipulator is derived from it but only uses it's map
12:19 sapier everything else is reimplemented
12:19 celeron55 oh 8)
12:20 sapier oh clear isn't reimplemented too ... calling map clear
12:22 sapier lol I just removed emerge from ManualVoxelManipulator to make compiler tell me where it's used ... guess what ... it isn't even used
12:23 celeron55 yeah? that's that the graph shows
12:24 sapier I wonder how much dead code is in there we could remove :-)
12:24 celeron55 not very much
12:24 sapier within whole minetest? ;-)
12:24 celeron55 you actually can find most of it by browsing through the doxygen diagrams
12:25 celeron55 that's what i noticed when trying the 1.5 years old pull request that adds doxygen to cmake 8)
12:25 sapier maybe I should do this next time
12:27 sapier maybe we should encourage ppl to use doxygen ;-)
12:32 sapier I replaced the perf pull by #1359 ... last two commits are new, later one isn't really a performance fix, I may put it separate
12:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1359 -- Perf fixes june 2014 2 by sapier
12:34 proller removing whole *VoxelManipulator* - good idea ;)
12:37 celeron55 removing proller - good idea
12:39 book` joined #minetest-dev
12:48 eeew joined #minetest-dev
12:56 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
12:57 proller celeron55, and it will increase performance ?
13:00 celeron55 it will improve performance of these irc channels
13:00 celeron55 anyway, what would you replace VMs with?
13:01 celeron55 they quite clearly do what they are intended to do, which is store temporary voxel data and accelerate access speed to it
13:01 celeron55 and rather considerably too
13:06 proller no 8)
13:07 Megaf Hi all
13:07 Megaf some players on my server and me when using the windows build get the error "Access Violation". Why?
13:09 Megaf Maybe we are running out of memory?
13:42 CraigyDavi joined #minetest-dev
13:58 OldCoder Taoki, hi
13:58 Taoki hi :)
14:20 Megaf sapier:
14:20 Megaf PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S  %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
14:20 Megaf 5365 pi        20   0 84368  25m 5404 S   6.5 11.1   1:21.79 ServerThread
14:20 Megaf 5363 pi        20   0 84368  25m 5404 S   1.3 11.1   0:23.53 ConnectionSend
14:20 Megaf That's on my Raspberry Pi
14:20 Megaf 2 or 3 players online
14:20 Megaf not bad uh?
14:21 Megaf celeron55: I managed to make Minetest Server run great on my Raspberry Pi and ODroid U3 (1 x 630 MHz armv6 and 4 x 2,1(or 2,1, I'm not sure) GHz armv7)
14:23 celeron55 so, what did you do then?
14:23 Megaf Here is the full conf, http://paste.debian.net/104114/
14:24 Megaf ANd the following settings are key for good performance
14:24 Megaf max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 1
14:24 Megaf max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total = 10
14:24 Megaf max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 1
14:24 Megaf max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total = 10
14:24 Megaf emergequeue_limit_total = 10
14:24 Megaf emergequeue_limit_diskonly = 4
14:24 Megaf emergequeue_limit_generate = 4
14:24 Megaf max_forceloaded_blocks = 1
14:25 Megaf (Those are good settings for up to 10 players)
14:25 celeron55 it's going to pretty much hang every 5 minutes to save the map, but if that is fine, whatever
14:26 Megaf I tried using short save maps intervals, but it will hang for the same amount of time or even longer
14:26 Megaf tried 1 second, 5 seconds, 30 seconds, 60 seconds
14:26 celeron55 if nothing changes in the world, then it's fine
14:26 celeron55 but if things keep changing all the time, then accumulating all that and saving at 5 minute interval will be bad
14:27 Megaf I think this may cause some load to the CPU server_unload_unused_data_timeout = if set to very high numbers, like an hour
14:27 celeron55 i guess your game is quite lightweight so that doesn't happen
14:27 LemonLake joined #minetest-dev
14:28 Megaf Yep, the game on the Raspberry Pi is lightweight, but the one on the ODroid is heavy thing, pipeworks, homedecor, mesecons, mesegates...
14:28 Megaf moretrees, plantlife
14:29 Megaf it slowed down a lot when I first added moretrees, but than I could get a good performance with that config
14:29 celeron55 maybe post those settings on the server settings topic
14:29 sapier maybe we should add some preconfigs for different usecases in util? settings perfect for a pi will be nonsense for a big machine like vanessaE's server and the other way round
14:30 sapier but I'm not sure if ppl would find them there
14:31 Megaf I'm quite sure those setting will be fast on VanessaE's server too
14:34 sapier well and I am sure those settings will cause players to not get any map data on servers with more then hmm about 10 playes online
14:35 Megaf yep, so just change max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total = to (numer of players * 1.2
14:35 Megaf or even times 2
14:35 sapier I once suggested a change like that but it's most likely not that easy
14:36 Megaf well, my settings relie/rely on fast read access/speed
14:36 sapier that's why those are settings so everyone can adjust them to her/his usecase
14:37 sapier most time wrong settings don't cause any major issues but for edge cases like your pi you need the perfect setup
14:38 Piggybear87 joined #minetest-dev
15:02 asl joined #minetest-dev
15:13 Megaf_ sapier; actually I begun changing settings back in the day when my server ran on octo core XEON CPUs
15:13 Megaf_ with 100 mbps of upink
15:14 Megaf_ uplink*
15:15 Megaf_ 250 mpbs actually
15:25 NakedFury joined #minetest-dev
15:37 Jordach joined #minetest-dev
16:07 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
16:08 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
16:26 khonkhortisan joined #minetest-dev
16:33 Anchakor joined #minetest-dev
16:42 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
17:18 SoniEx2 make world saving/loading scripted
17:19 SoniEx2 if it isn't already
17:19 SoniEx2 that way you can test your algorithms and stuff
17:32 Tesseract sfan5: Because I added it.  Why?
18:06 zat joined #minetest-dev
18:47 Amaz_ joined #minetest-dev
19:05 Piggybear87 joined #minetest-dev
19:12 dsimon left #minetest-dev
20:38 GhostDoge joined #minetest-dev
20:52 Jordach joined #minetest-dev
21:20 proller joined #minetest-dev
21:40 FlyingPandas_ joined #minetest-dev
21:41 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
21:53 eeew joined #minetest-dev
21:58 Eater4 joined #minetest-dev
22:40 zat joined #minetest-dev
23:04 Exio4 joined #minetest-dev
23:10 VanessaE joined #minetest-dev
23:12 VanessaE joined #minetest-dev
23:37 SoniEx2 anyone?
23:40 RealBadAngel whats up?
23:56 NakedFury not much, chilling with some E3 show
23:56 NakedFury what about you?

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext