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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-05-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:16 ShadowNinja http://sprunge.us/MNYN?diff  This loads player files only when they're needed, it cuts my server's memory usage in half (and should reduce CPU usage a bit).
00:16 ShadowNinja (40MiB -> 20MiB)
00:18 sapier saveAllPlayers really? even not active players? ;-)
00:20 sapier if (newplayer) {<<< newline
00:21 sapier that's true for a lot of other lines in there too
00:21 LemonLake The only problem with allowing multiple contributors is code formatting
00:21 LemonLake It makes the code look like a pile of spices poured on the floor by children
00:21 sapier why don't you follow your own coding style rules?
00:24 VanessaE ShadowNinja: nice
00:24 sapier No it's not a problem if everyone sticks to the rules, as shadow was the one bugging me for months to follow the rules I wont let him add code following the rules too ... and don't even try to change the rules once you're affected shadow ;-P
00:26 VanessaE sapier, ShadowNinja:  to be fair, the engine's coding style guidelines aren't exactly written down anywhere...
00:27 sapier they are ShadowNinja kept bugging me for months with those damn "put bracket to newline" ... ;-P
00:27 VanessaE you know what I meant :P
00:36 sapier wow ... I just managed to start my current development version on a 600 MHz single core device with 320x480@3,2"
00:36 VanessaE O_o
00:36 VanessaE did it actually *work*?
00:37 sapier well  <1 fps might be an issue
00:40 sapier but I never did manage to see anything but blue screen on that device by now ;-)
00:45 ShadowNinja sapier: No, There isn't supposed to be a newline before brackets.  I've been telling you to remove those newlines!
00:45 ShadowNinja I'll change it to saveLoadedPlayers.
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00:46 sapier you've bugged me for month to add those newlines
00:46 ShadowNinja sapier: You must have misunderstood me.
00:46 sapier if you now change your mind I want you to write down the very exact guidelines on wiki because I'm really really annoyed about having to change the codings style twice a year
00:47 sapier I don't like wasting hours of time to move around newlines
00:48 ShadowNinja sapier: https://www.kernel.org/doc​/Documentation/CodingStyle -- Chapter 3
00:49 ShadowNinja I haven't changed it, you just didn't understand what I was saying.
00:49 ShadowNinja I suggest you read that document, and http://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines of course.
00:49 sapier grrrrrrrrrrrr
00:51 sapier delete that damn wiki page and define kernel coding style to be the only reference
00:51 sapier >>Use your best judgement for C++-specific syntax.<< basicaly results in "demand what you want to annoy ppl
01:03 sapier "Do not unnecessarily use braces where a single statement will do." lol apple guys must have read that sentence ... with known result
01:28 hmmmm eh
01:28 hmmmm what style to follow depends on which piece of code you're working on
01:29 hmmmm if it's old stuff it's probably better to have it fit in with the rest of that weird "if() \n {" style
01:29 sapier actually it seems to depend on the one checking it's mood
01:29 hmmmm the "irrlicht style" I guess you can call it
01:30 hmmmm the more consistent style on the other hand would be the K&R derivative
01:30 sapier I'm just annoyed because of wasting so much time on changing code style back and forward for any single commit
01:30 hmmmm you don't need to
01:30 sapier unless I want to rebase them in about 2 years I obviously have to
01:31 hmmmm we went over this 500 times.... ShadowNinja stop being such a pendant w.r.t. code style
01:31 hmmmm grrr
01:31 hmmmm I just don't think so much effort should be put into something so trivial
01:31 hmmmm as long as it's understandable and consistent, that's good enough
01:32 sapier I don't have a problem with him being pedantic as long as there's a way to decide how it's supposed to be
01:32 hmmmm I'd prefer for things to match up though, and the majority of the code on the internet (aside from GNU) do something close to K&R
01:32 hmmmm seems to do something close*
01:33 hmmmm a lot of my own code isn't conformant either
01:33 hmmmm i start function bodies with the bracket on the same line as the signature
01:34 hmmmm but i'm not going to go around explicitly changing things unless it needs to be modified at some point
01:38 sapier I try to change it around the lines I change ... but knowing how it's expected to be would be usefull
01:39 hmmmm i'll agree the current "code style guidelines" is just a list of things that pissed me off
01:39 hmmmm and it could be done much better
01:39 hmmmm and more complete
01:40 hmmmm but i'm not doing it because i have so many better things to do in life
01:40 sapier imho for some things it causes more confusion then clarification
01:40 hmmmm what, for example?
01:40 sapier >>Use your best judgement for C++-specific syntax.<<
01:40 hmmmm oh that
01:41 hmmmm well we kinda standardized on some C++ specific syntax, right?
01:41 hmmmm class scope identifiers aren't indented
01:41 hmmmm for loops with very long iterator type declarations go on separate lines
01:42 hmmmm err the type declaration goes on a different line*
01:42 sapier yes that seems to match code (at least for those locations I checked)
01:43 hmmmm do initializer lists the way they are everywhere else
01:43 sapier meaning indention 1
01:43 hmmmm that is, like Foobar() : \n\tfoo(blah),\n\tbar(53),\n\tbaz("asdfg")\n{
01:44 sapier btw original code seems to have "public:" indented 1 level
01:44 hmmmm hmmm
01:44 hmmmm we don't want that though do we
01:44 hmmmm because it's the same sort of lexeme as a goto statement and we certainly don't indent things after a goto
01:44 hmmmm so I guess that's a change for the better
01:45 sapier for me it's fine both ways
01:45 hmmmm more indendation isn't necessarily better anyway
01:45 hmmmm I used to double indent switch statements but it always seemed inconsistent and the linux kernel code doesn't do that either
01:46 sapier old code did have { on same line as class guess that's why it had to be indented
01:47 hmmmm well as we're discussing this, point out any guidelines you don't think are correct
01:47 hmmmm class definition order is always public, protected, private
01:47 hmmmm but visibility keywords aren't very often used to begin with
01:48 hmmmm i always thought visibility restriction was just a way to annoy people when a certain abstraction turns out to be inefficient
01:48 sapier "Don't use initializer lists unless absolutely necessary" I don't think thats a reasonable suggestion for c++ code
01:48 hmmmm why not
01:48 hmmmm the only real benefit they have is static initialization of subclasses
01:49 sapier yes and compiler is able to check for order of initialization if you use them
01:49 hmmmm order of initialization shouldn't be important though
01:50 hmmmm if it is, don't you think it's something that should be done explicitly rather than implicitly?
01:50 hmmmm that's a big problem I have with C++, is that implicit ways of doing things are preferred
01:50 hmmmm hidden is bad
01:51 sapier it's not hidden in a initializer list
01:51 sapier it's just the way meant to be done in c++
01:51 sapier thus you're able to use all those mechanisms modern compilers and check tools provide to verify it's correct
01:52 hmmmm static analyzers should be able to pick up on the same things though
01:52 hmmmm if they are functionally identical
01:53 sapier and the last thing g_ and m_ prefixes ... ok globals should be avoided anyway so it's not really relevant, but imho prefixing member variables with m_ makes code way more readable
01:53 hmmmm by initializer lists being implicit, I mean it's not part of the function body saying "here these are the actions being performed upon execution"
01:53 hmmmm yeah but
01:53 hmmmm where do you draw the line
01:54 sapier of course the one writing it knows which variables are members and which aren't, but if you just read code it's quite hard to see
01:54 hmmmm like v3f, those members don't have m_
01:54 hmmmm structs are classes
01:55 hmmmm i think it can be hard to tell when something stops becoming a data storage structure and rather a logical grouping of functions
01:55 hmmmm which could lead to inconsistency
01:55 sapier I usually use m_ notations for classes having a "longer" livetime
01:56 sapier if a object is usually temporary only I don't need to know if it's a member or not
01:56 hmmmm my justification for m_ not being necessary is that you're usually looking at code inside of a function body
01:56 hmmmm if the function body doesn't contain any locals by that name, then it has to be a member
01:56 hmmmm but the problem is
01:56 hmmmm that only works if functions are managable in size
01:56 sapier think about functions in game or guiFormspecMenu ... there are functions bigger then a single screen
01:57 hmmmm minetest has way too many 2000 line functions going on
01:57 hmmmm alright
01:57 hmmmm so then that settles it, m_ should be used for members that have a longer lifetime...?
01:57 sapier I just had this case where I didn't know if "imagesize" is a local variable or a member stored ;-)
01:57 hmmmm doesn't your IDE show you where it's declared
01:58 sapier of course ... go to declaration ... different file, completely out of scope ;-)
01:59 sapier it's not about that information not beeing present, but just not being obvious
01:59 hmmmm yea
01:59 hmmmm I guess what I don't like about it is that what would that mean the mapgen code would look like
01:59 hmmmm all weird
01:59 hmmmm :/
02:00 hmmmm prefixing m_ to all the noise buffers
02:00 sapier maybe something like use m_ for complex persistend classes and without m_ for small usually temporary classes/structs
02:00 hmmmm you know, about noise buffers
02:01 sapier no where to look for them?
02:01 hmmmm I have been wondering if preallocating and keeping these huge chunks of memory alive forever is a good idea
02:01 hmmmm maybe it's cheaper to keep allocating things every time i want to use them instead of trashing the cache
02:01 sapier maybe we should just remove that g_ m_ suggestion and don't suggest anything at all ;-)
02:01 hmmmm yeah that's a good idea
02:01 hmmmm let's remove that suggestion
02:02 hmmmm so initializer lists, I don't like them because they're too C++y
02:02 hmmmm so *I* discourage them
02:03 hmmmm but there are reasons to use them
02:03 sapier as we already have the rule to follow the existing conventions anyone adding a new parameter to a m_ class should add m_ members too while adding to non m_ classes should be done without m_ too
02:03 hmmmm can't you argue the same for using enums instead of #defines though
02:03 hmmmm yeah agreed with that
02:03 sapier well I usually use enums instead of defines
02:03 hmmmm that's the rule above all
02:04 hmmmm be consistent
02:04 sapier because enums provide type checking while defines don't
02:04 hmmmm I don't like enums instead of defines because now it's "type safe" and passing the values around in a generic int type cause type punning warnings
02:05 sapier that type checking is about avoiding mistakes ;-) of course if you're very carefull you don't need it ... but I am not carefull enough to rely on this for myself
02:06 hmmmm yea, I can see the theoretical benefits of very strong typing but at the same time it turns out to be more of a nuisance in practice
02:07 sapier yes if rules are checked you have to follow the rules that's the result
02:07 hmmmm how could you possibly screw up so bad that you'll store an unrelated constant in some variable
02:07 sapier but I don't think we need a rule for enums
02:07 hmmmm i can't acutally come up with a single case where that's helped
02:07 sapier there are good reasons for both
02:08 sapier switch case checking
02:08 hmmmm this is something like the yoda comparisons
02:08 ShadowNinja hmmmm: I disagree with the struct double-indenting.  You've changed your mind too?
02:08 sapier if you provide a enum and do a switch case compiler will tell you about missing cases
02:08 hmmmm if (5 == bar) { <--- theoretically beneficial, but strange and never actually helped anybody in real life
02:08 hmmmm ShadowNinja, I don't like double indenting structs now because it takes up too much space
02:09 hmmmm linux kernel style has it right
02:09 hmmmm me double indenting structs is just an old habit of mine
02:09 hmmmm sapier:  yeah, which is annoying ;)
02:09 hmmmm a lot of times you don't want to handle all of the cases
02:10 sapier sometimes it's helpfull too
02:10 sapier especially for switch cases where default is something like assert ;-)
02:11 ShadowNinja Enums are good, not only because of type checking but because they contain a logical choice of values.  And they auto-increment.
02:11 sapier I think we shouldn't add a rule about enums to coding style rules
02:11 hmmmm you can logically group together numerical constants without enums
02:12 hmmmm the only benefit they have is the typing and that can be annoying
02:12 hmmmm along with the compiler warnings
02:12 hmmmm it's all about avoiding annoyances where C++ thinks it's helping but it's not
02:13 sapier that's your personal opinion hmmmm ;-)
02:13 hmmmm C++ is overzealous with typing, i believe, to the point where it drives people insane
02:13 sapier you know all those languages who thought they could live without explicite typing are about to add it recently? ;-)
02:14 hmmmm that's way different
02:14 hmmmm C typing I think is optimal
02:14 hmmmm (i mean that level of type-safety, not the type system itself)
02:15 sapier in c everyone used void* pointers to pass data ... that's not type-safety at all ;-)
02:15 hmmmm you can't set a void pointer to a non-pointer value
02:15 hmmmm aside from NULL
02:15 hmmmm but whatever
02:16 sapier but I haven't run into the enum/define issue by now so I don't think we need a rule ... :-)
02:16 sapier actually you can't set a void pointer to function pointer too ... yet most time it works
02:16 hmmmm people who use void * to pass data are asking for a problem because it would definitely cause a justified compiler warning and could potentially result in an overflow if it so happens that the type is greater than the maximum address type on that machine
02:17 hmmmm doesn't POSIX say something about that
02:17 hmmmm the C standard is that void * shall be large enough to store an address to any data type
02:17 sapier don't know but within c standard function and data pointers are different data types
02:18 hmmmm i believe, not certain though, that POSIX says function pointers can be stored in void pointers
02:18 sapier possible
02:18 hmmmm relying on posix I think is okay
02:18 sapier I'd not be sure about that
02:18 hmmmm it's very difficult to write posix-free code
02:19 sapier e.g. for some 32/64 bit mixed mode architectures data and function pointers really have different size
02:19 hmmmm especially when your code has to do semi-complex things
02:19 hmmmm regardless
02:19 hmmmm I don't know of a situation where anybody would mix and match function and data pointers
02:20 sapier didn't linux add something like that last year? function pointers 32bit and data pointers 64bit?
02:20 hmmmm i haven't heard of it
02:20 hmmmm it's sure possible though..
02:23 sapier ew X32 ABI: 64-bit mode with 32-bit pointers
02:23 sapier that one
02:24 sapier hmm not exactly it's just using 64bit registers
02:25 sapier but 32bit pointers for everything
02:25 ShadowNinja Minetest data pointers for functions, but only because lua_pushlightuserdata takes a void* and LuaJIT_setmode(LUAJIT_MODE_WRAPCFUNC) uses it as a function.
02:26 sapier yes it's not an issue
02:26 sapier unless we default to luajit ;-)
02:27 hmmmm it could be an issue of truncation if a function pointer happens to be bigger than a data pointer
02:28 ShadowNinja Could a function pointer point to a completely different memory area that shares addresses with the regular memory area?
02:29 hmmmm huh?  all von neumann architectures do that
02:30 sapier nx flag could cause issues ... but not sure about it as it's a pointer only and not the actual code
02:33 sapier But something completely different, I intend to merge #1200, #1332, #1302 and #1304 soon so please check and add additional comments if there's something not already mentioned
02:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1200 -- Add support for exiting formspecs by doubleclicking outside by sapier
02:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1332 -- Small cleanup of hud add/remove code by sapier
02:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1302 -- Add daemon support for linux like operating systems by sapier
02:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1304 -- Fix inventory items blinking on item preloading by sapier
02:34 sapier and now I need to get some sleep good night ;-)
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10:42 celeron55 what is this supposed to mean? "quand tu peut joué a minetest avec moi"
10:42 celeron55 i guess it's something completely useless but i can't be sure because google translate can't make any sense out of it
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10:49 VanessaE joué I take as a UTF-8 encoding mismatch, looks like google is trying to translate it as "On what day can I meet you to play Minetest"
10:50 VanessaE (strange question, either way)
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10:53 VanessaE yeah, that should be Joué -->  "When you can have minetest Played with me"
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12:03 * Megaf should read teh backlog where sapier and hmmm are saying things about Linux Kernel
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16:09 sapier #1343 extends fstk to be usable for in game menus too
16:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1343 -- Add support for using fstk for in game menus by sapier
16:13 Megaf sapier; !! You messed up with the linking again!?
16:13 Megaf http://paste.debian.net/102590/
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16:13 sapier I didn't change linking
16:14 sapier actually I haven't merged anything for a few days ;-)
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16:15 Megaf So who messed up that?
16:16 Megaf $ git pull
16:16 Megaf Already up-to-date.
16:16 sapier those error message point at some sort of data corruption
16:17 sapier e.g. broken temporary files (did you do a make clean yet?)
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16:18 sapier broken ram or broken flash (I guess you're on a flash device as usual) are other possible reasons ... or just out of memory due to make -j X
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17:33 LemonLake hi every buddy
17:34 LemonLake I posted #1345 if you wanna check it out
17:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1345 -- Lua feature to hide player nametags
17:35 Calinou that's an issue, not a PR
17:35 Calinou not many people will care ;)
17:35 Calinou variables are other_player_name, not otherPlayerName
17:36 LemonLake sfan5 told me to post it
17:36 Calinou (convention in Lua and C++)
17:36 sapier hmm could be quite a lot of changes for a feature that less important
17:36 LemonLake it doesn't matter, it was just an example
17:36 Calinou (for Minetest, especially)
17:36 Calinou yeah
17:36 LemonLake sapier, how would it be a lot of changes?
17:36 Calinou I would like nametag hiding, so that you can also make the player skin transparent = invisible player (can be used by admins)
17:36 LemonLake ^
17:36 Calinou could also have “spectator” feature: attach invisible player to another player
17:37 Calinou so, I'm all for it
17:37 LemonLake Cal, can you comment on that?
17:37 LemonLake :D
17:37 sapier nametags are shown on client thus server has to tell clients what to hide and what not
17:37 LemonLake It does the same with hud though so I don't see it being the biggest deal
17:37 sapier hud is active player only
17:38 sapier while that flag would be bound to generic entities
17:38 sapier almost generic entities
17:38 Calinou commented
17:38 Calinou (may not be very useful though)
17:38 LemonLake thanks
17:38 Calinou “Additionally, allow name tag colour changing (RGBA).”
17:39 Calinou eg. per-privilege colouring of nametags
17:39 LemonLake Actually, yeah
17:39 sapier not sure how much of work would be necessary but feels like more than obviously visible
17:39 LemonLake I like the sound of RGBA
17:39 Calinou This could allow stuff like colouring name tags based on privileges, or darkening the name tags of dead players.
17:39 LemonLake sapier, it shouldn't be too too much
17:39 sapier ok I'm waiting for someone to implement it ;-)
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17:39 LemonLake :D
17:41 BrandonReese I would be happy if player name tags didn't show through opaque objects
17:41 LemonLake That would require a lot of calculation
17:43 BrandonReese The name tag would probably have to be made an entity or something
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17:43 LemonLake eww
17:43 sapier entities are only loaded within very short range around player
17:44 LemonLake ^
17:44 LemonLake Except players
17:44 LemonLake they're always loaded
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17:47 RealBadAngel hi sapier
17:47 LemonLake RealBadAngel: Opinion on #1345?
17:47 RealBadAngel ive tried x86 build, and it is behaving a bit weird
17:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1345 -- Lua feature to hide player nametags
17:48 RealBadAngel sapier, day/night cycle is broken, changes are almost instant and it flickers like hell
17:49 Calinou BrandonReese, by default, they should, else it makes collaboration a pain ;)
17:50 RealBadAngel LemonLake, could be useful for specific games, yes
17:50 RealBadAngel and i agree with Calinou on additions
17:50 BrandonReese It should be an option like unlimited transfer distance
17:51 LemonLake RealBadAngel: Would you know anyone who would actually add it?
17:51 RealBadAngel sapier, and it happens in both singleplayer and on server (like Vanessa's)
17:52 RealBadAngel LemonLake, propably most of us (devs). question is who's table is empty atm ;)
17:53 LemonLake If you could pass it on to some other devs (because it's an issue so most people wouldn't see it) I would be so grateful
17:53 RealBadAngel i do have several ongoin projects, so i wont start again for sure
17:54 BrandonReese LemonLake if player_unlimited_transfer_distance is false, players also disapear like other entities base don active_object_send_range_blocks
17:54 LemonLake So either a nametag RGBA thing, settable for different players like I said (only certian players can see it for e.g.)
17:54 LemonLake I know, BrandonReese
17:54 LemonLake That's why I don't use it
17:54 RealBadAngel hell, this reminds me one thing
17:54 RealBadAngel such a change will need lotsa settings
17:54 RealBadAngel tables with visibility from one to another
17:55 LemonLake True#
17:55 RealBadAngel which means: WE DO NEED LUA API FOR STORING MODS DATA!
17:55 LemonLake ^^^
17:55 LemonLake Yes!
17:55 LemonLake You should comment that on the post
17:55 RealBadAngel basic things first
17:59 sapier RealBadAngel: any idea what's reason for it?
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18:09 RealBadAngel sapier, not yet
18:10 RealBadAngel i was just testing it before i left to work, no diggin in the code at all
18:10 RealBadAngel also another problem
18:11 RealBadAngel "theres same application already installled but with another sign"
18:11 RealBadAngel or something like that
18:11 sapier yes debug/release
18:11 sapier just uninstall the old version
18:11 RealBadAngel thats the point
18:11 RealBadAngel one should be able to update just
18:12 sapier you will be able to update once it's signed with a real key
18:12 RealBadAngel ah ok
18:13 sapier well it's a real key right now too but debug/release versions are signed with different keys by definition
18:13 RealBadAngel last version i tried wasnt flashing
18:14 sapier "flashing" as of ?
18:14 RealBadAngel in this sun/moon is is changing in like 1s cycle
18:14 RealBadAngel so lighting goes nuts
18:14 sapier isn't there some ancient bug telling a similar thing?
18:14 sapier are we talking about master or android port right now?
18:15 Megaf sapier: Linking CXX executable ../bin/minetestserver
18:15 Megaf [100%] Built target minetestserver
18:15 RealBadAngel i tried your x86 build, on android-x86 kitkat
18:15 Megaf real    76m31.243s
18:15 Megaf worked now
18:15 sapier ah :-) wow it did start?
18:15 LemonLake Megaf: Welcome to using a raspberry pi
18:15 Megaf sorry?
18:15 sapier more then an hour? wow :)
18:16 sapier you're really patient megaf
18:16 RealBadAngel or a masochist ;)
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18:17 sapier RealBadAngel: maybe we'll be able to find that ancient bug on android x86 instead of the original location ;-)
18:17 Megaf sapier: nah, I just do a make, then I start cooking the lunch, then we eat lunch, then I bring my love to work, then I come home, then I go to work, then I work and then it's compiled!
18:17 Megaf to her job*
18:18 Megaf So I don't have to wait :P
18:20 ShadowNinja sapier: You leak functions into the global environment in fstk.
18:21 sapier you're not talking about the interface functions supposed to be global are you? ;-)
18:21 ShadowNinja sapier: And it seems like fstk should be an implementation detail, at least until formspecs are redone.
18:21 ShadowNinja sapier: They should be in core.
18:22 sapier it's a library not core
18:22 ShadowNinja Nothing other than generic utility functions that aren't specific to Minetest should be global.
18:23 sapier a little bit late to notice
18:25 ShadowNinja Little else is global.
18:25 ShadowNinja Builtin did leak a bit last I checked though.
18:25 LemonLake ShadowNinja, is your todo list busy?
18:29 kaeza speaking of that, /me should rebase #1324
18:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1324 -- Sort commands and privs alphabetically in `/help. by kaeza
18:29 kaeza err... not that one
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18:29 kaeza this one https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1341
18:30 ShadowNinja LemonLake: Yes.  Why?
18:30 LemonLake Dang
18:30 LemonLake #1345
18:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1345 -- Lua feature to hide player nametags
18:31 sapier no need to mention once an hour ;-P
18:31 LemonLake Sorry, just trying to spread the word
18:31 LemonLake Normally it'd be just ignored
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18:33 RealBadAngel hi nore
18:33 Krock sapier, is the ~15s long lag while saving the map a feature?
18:33 nore hi
18:33 Krock hi nore
18:33 RealBadAngel nore, ive included mg in technic_game 2.0
18:33 RealBadAngel but....
18:33 sapier don't know but could be players instead of map Krock
18:33 RealBadAngel where the fuck are moretrees? :)
18:34 Krock sapier, well that lag only happens all 2-5 minutes, that's within the map save intrval
18:34 RealBadAngel nore, also we do have to talk about microblocks
18:34 sapier ok so not on shutdown
18:35 RealBadAngel i want l-systems trees to use them
18:35 Krock sapier, there it takes a while, too.
18:35 sapier what os, hardware and database backend are you using?
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18:35 Krock Windows Vista x64, dual core 1.4GHz CPU, leveldb
18:35 sapier try sqlite backend
18:36 Krock I don't want that level corruption again. so nope.
18:36 Krock s/level/world
18:37 sapier well leveldb keeps a lot of data in memory till it's necessary to be flushed by some time
18:37 Krock sapier, so a higher save interval would solve that?
18:37 sapier sqlite keeps data in sync permanently so it's most likely not affected
18:37 sapier maybe
18:37 ShadowNinja SQLite3 is pretty stable.
18:38 Krock sapier, and I guess there's no work around which wouldn't cause a corruption?
18:38 sapier wonder if you'd run better using sqlite if you reduce save interval for leveldb
18:38 Krock example: new thread
18:38 sapier no
18:38 sapier I wonder why you expect map corruption for what I know sqlite is way more tested then leveldb
18:39 Krock sapier, I posted examples of it multiple times. re-generation of chunks
18:39 sapier I'd expect leveldb to cause more issues then sqlite
18:40 Krock yes sure but it (almost) never will reach a file size limit
18:41 sapier possible ... but if it's freezing each couple of minutes that's not helpfull too ;-)
18:41 LemonLake How can I see the 7 char commit ID on github?
18:41 Krock sapier, well then.. freeze is still better than need to backup every day for the case, it could corrupt somewhen
18:42 sapier ok
18:42 Krock sapier, lemme show you a build which haven't had such problems
18:43 Krock *grabbs link*
18:43 Krock https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=131204#p131204
18:43 RealBadAngel btw, which backend could be capable of storing blobs?
18:44 RealBadAngel leveldb or sqlite?
18:44 Krock sapier, also this one: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=132682#p132682
18:44 sapier Krock didn't it have the issue or was the map smaller by that time? ;-)
18:45 Krock sapier, can 50 MB cause such a difference?
18:45 Krock *50 MB more/additional/whatever
18:45 sapier sometimes but I don't know about the internals of leveldb
18:47 sapier I don't know of any relevant changes within map backend the last months so we don't even have a hint where to look at
18:48 Krock sapier, crazy idea: could it be possible to split the sqlite file into 10 or 20?
18:48 Krock could it be faster?
18:48 * Krock feels some <.< around
18:48 sfan5 lolwat
18:49 sfan5 there is no way 10 or 20 files will be faster than one
18:49 sapier most likely not but you'd have to ask someone knowing minetests database backend better then me
18:49 Krock sfan5, well, isn't it harder to search something within 100mb than in a 10mb file?
18:50 sfan5 no
18:52 Krock sfan5, that means, sqlite stores the "start reading at" positions at the beginning, so it gets easier than fetch every single row until found
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18:52 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: Both of them are designed to store BLOBs.
18:52 sfan5 fetch every single row until right row found would be very inefficent
18:52 sfan5 I don't think sqlite3 does it like that
18:53 sfan5 otherwise sqlite3 would be very very slow
18:53 Krock sfan5, so it's better than I thought
18:53 Calinou LemonLake, click on commit
18:53 Calinou at the right
18:53 Krock let's hope for a fast migrate and no lags..
18:54 Krock </ thread closed >
18:55 LemonLake Sorry, calinou?
18:56 LemonLake Where did my issue go?? ø.ø
18:57 LemonLake Calinou, what commit?
18:57 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1345
18:57 Calinou LemonLake, you asked <LemonLake> How can I see the 7 char commit ID on github?
18:57 LemonLake I figured out that the 7 chars is just the shortened SSH
18:58 Calinou TIL: “Our official line length limit is 90 characters”
18:58 Calinou so that'll be the guideline for my mods
18:59 LemonLake My issue isn't on the issues list
18:59 Calinou builtin uses 4-tabs however…
19:00 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/1341#issuecomment-44471878
19:00 Calinou LemonLake, I see it: https://github.com/minetest​/minetest/issues?state=open
19:00 Calinou at the top
19:00 Calinou sort by Recently Updated
19:00 LemonLake What kind of repository was I on ø.ø
19:01 LemonLake Oh i had a label filter (facepalm)
19:02 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1328 → does this kill ceiling torches with fire?
19:02 Calinou please keep ceiling torches, if you merge this
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19:59 VanessaE don't merge 1328, that's a dead issue imho.
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20:06 Calinou he says he's not using Minecraft textures, but I doubt it
20:06 Calinou he already used them in mods
20:08 ShadowNinja #1346
20:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1346 -- Only keep players loaded while theyre connected by ShadowNinja
20:11 CraigyDavi ShadowNinja, so it does not load all player files and store then up as ram as it used to?
20:13 ShadowNinja CraigyDavi: Yep.
20:14 CraigyDavi That's great! Now I don't have to keep deleting player files :)
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21:46 ShadowNinja sapier: Trying to find the async bug:    valgrind: the 'impossible' happened:
21:46 sapier meaning?
21:47 ShadowNinja VALGRIND INTERNAL ERROR: Valgrind received a signal 11 (SIGSEGV) - exiting
21:47 sapier lol seems someone is really messing up memory
21:47 sfan5 you should try to debug valgrind
21:47 sfan5 if gdb crashes you're out of luck
21:49 ShadowNinja It did dump a bunch of Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s) warnings though...
21:50 ShadowNinja More than 1000 different errors detected.  I'm not reporting any more.  Final error counts will be inaccurate.  Go fix your program!  Haha.
21:50 VanessaE wait, you crashed valgrind itself? O_O
21:52 ShadowNinja Yes, something's broken so badly that valgrind gets killed apparently.
21:52 VanessaE how the...  I don't even...
21:53 ShadowNinja Some of the errors are in OpenSSL.
21:54 ShadowNinja A lot of them actually.
21:54 sapier ignore the conditional jumps they're most likely irrelevant
21:58 ShadowNinja http://sprunge.us/ATeD?foo
21:58 ShadowNinja Most of the errors are in OpenSSL or CURL.
21:59 ShadowNinja Lots in JSON-CPP too.
22:09 ShadowNinja The only errors seem to be deep in Lua or unrelated.
22:11 ShadowNinja sapier: Have you poked inspected this crash?  Because I still don't have any idea what's causing it, unless it's that Lua's internally broken with threads.
22:13 sapier a single lua instance never may be used from different threads that's crucial but for what I know we follow that rule .. don't we?
22:22 ShadowNinja I believe so...
22:23 ShadowNinja LuaJIT apparently has a non-threadsafe allocator though.
22:29 sapier yes but that's not relevant as long as we work on different lua states
22:32 ShadowNinja Even with different states.
22:32 sapier that'd be new
22:32 sapier malloc is threadsafe
22:32 ShadowNinja LuaLanes protects LuaJIT's allocator because of that.  It uses seperate states.
22:34 sapier sorry a little bit more details
22:35 sapier I don't think it's a generic issue as it did work with comparable thread changes
22:35 sapier still others use multiple lua instances from multiple thread too so this is actually a well tested usecase
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22:43 sapier I see a lot of graphics memory corruption lately maybe that's related too
22:43 sapier haven't seen that issue for quite some time
22:43 ShadowNinja https://github.com/LuaLanes/lane​s/blob/master/src/lanes.c#L1568
22:45 sapier for what I understand that's just relevant if you use a single state from different threads ... our issue is independent from luajit anyway
22:47 ShadowNinja LuaLanes uses a seperate state for each thread.    LuaThread is what uses one state, it requires a patched core though.    And yes, this isn't the issue, but it could be an issue even if it isn't the current one.
22:49 sapier for luajit maybe but I don't see a way how luajit could mess up it's own memory unless they use global variables internaly ...
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23:40 ShadowNinja \o/ I fixed the async crash with some help from sapier.
23:41 LemonLake popping*
23:45 ShadowNinja Comments on #1149?
23:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1149 -- Add AppData file by davidgumberg
23:46 VanessaE yay :)
23:52 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: ^ Does that look good now?
23:53 PilzAdam does the order of <project_license> matter?
23:58 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Doesn't seem like it, but I can easily ammend it.
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