| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:08 |
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| 00:19 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: what's the story with mgv7 default biomes? |
| 00:20 |
VanessaE |
zat is modifying moretrees to be able to work on mgv7, without depending on plants_lib, but without some kind of reliable default biomes to grow on, well... we're kinda stuck. |
| 01:31 |
* zat |
hears crickets |
| 01:43 |
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| 02:12 |
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| 02:12 |
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| 02:14 |
hmmmm |
i'd recommend people to not use mapgen v7 for the time being |
| 02:14 |
hmmmm |
my life has been really crazy the past couple of months and i've just not really felt like working on minetest related things |
| 02:14 |
hmmmm |
sorry |
| 02:15 |
hmmmm |
see I'd go and push my better biome stuff right now, but I don't have a decent enough set of default biomes |
| 02:16 |
* VanessaE |
pokes zat |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
it's just a question at this point of having something to grow on at all really, even if the form the land takes will eventually change |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
you know, default:dirt_with_grass and so forth |
| 02:19 |
VanessaE |
but I understand quite well |
| 02:21 |
zat |
I am working on a set of biomes right now |
| 02:21 |
zat |
hmmmm: is there a way to get higher mountains in v7? |
| 02:21 |
VanessaE |
I suggested to zat that the biomes and the form the land takes should somewhat resemble mapgen v5 |
| 02:21 |
VanessaE |
(since people generally liked that one better than v6) |
| 02:22 |
zat |
by the way I have no idea about v5 D: |
| 02:22 |
VanessaE |
zat: look at 0.3.x. |
| 02:22 |
VanessaE |
that's v5 |
| 02:23 |
VanessaE |
but maybe it's better to use something like what paramat does with his paragen mod |
| 02:23 |
VanessaE |
but less complex maybe |
| 02:25 |
hmmmm |
zat: i would hope that mgv7_np_mount_height would be pretty obvious |
| 02:25 |
hmmmm |
"hey, mount, mountain, height, that might be the noise params for mountain height" |
| 02:26 |
zat |
no idea... where do I see that lol |
| 02:34 |
zat |
nevermind I found it all :) |
| 02:42 |
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| 09:15 |
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| 09:18 |
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| 10:35 |
RealBadAngel |
#1308 is updated with some style fixes, .env removed and TTL for items added |
| 10:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1308 -- Item entity stacks merge on the ground, add TTL. by RealBadAngel |
| 10:52 |
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| 11:20 |
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| 16:11 |
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| 16:15 |
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| 16:19 |
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| 16:24 |
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| 16:24 |
Megaf_ |
In thread 41761440: |
| 16:24 |
Megaf_ |
/home/minetest/minetest/src/util/pointer.h:279: void SharedBuffer<T>::drop() [with T = unsigned char]: Assertion '(*refcount) > 0' failed. |
| 16:26 |
Megaf_ |
(Leftover data: #3 void RemoteClient::GetNextBlocks(ServerEnvironment*, EmergeManager*, float, std::vector<PrioritySortedBlockTransfer>&)) |
| 16:26 |
Megaf_ |
maybe already fixed? |
| 16:30 |
sapier |
most likely not |
| 16:31 |
sapier |
megaf how often did you get that message about the missing player? as often as the old one? |
| 16:33 |
Megaf_ |
sapier: not often at all, but when it happens is devastating |
| 16:33 |
Megaf_ |
millions of lines every second |
| 16:33 |
Megaf_ |
most likely to be fixed already |
| 16:34 |
Megaf_ |
sapier: I get that on my Raspberry Pi server, |
| 16:34 |
sapier |
I don't think so, I made this an error because it's not supposed to happen, if you tell it's causing a lot of issues I may have missed a situation where this can happen |
| 16:35 |
Megaf_ |
let me check, |
| 16:35 |
sapier |
could be a race condition about player beeing removed while something else is done ... chances a race condition does bad things are quite better on very very slow machines |
| 16:36 |
Megaf_ |
sapier: I think you fixed that already, was just a matter of pulling a new snapshot |
| 16:36 |
Megaf_ |
I will let you know if I see that again |
| 16:36 |
proller |
sapier, again things from your fantasy world ? |
| 16:37 |
sapier |
I didn't fix it on purpose |
| 16:40 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/960d731587f58036bd4957f4a77db41e145c2d04 I know you're blind proller but I didn't know you're that blind |
| 16:40 |
proller |
miss! |
| 16:41 |
proller |
its not my code |
| 16:41 |
sapier |
check blame |
| 16:41 |
proller |
check brain |
| 16:41 |
sapier |
you've been the one adding it |
| 16:41 |
proller |
but not me writing it |
| 16:42 |
sapier |
you expect me to fix all bugs for any code I touch why don't you do it yourself too? |
| 16:43 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e47f6fdfe985b8907e0aa7372bb325ceb5ed5f4c btw you DID add it |
| 16:43 |
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| 16:44 |
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| 16:45 |
proller |
it was function from stackowerfow or google |
| 16:46 |
proller |
no |
| 16:46 |
proller |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f764297be2d55c9b8350077e44e3d62a9e058bcf |
| 16:47 |
proller |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f960c3be313c761fe02f9167dc1fe3fca5dc4ada |
| 16:47 |
sapier |
So you copy code from somewhere and don't even check it? That's not even close to an excuse ;-) ... well at least I don't have to check that code for copyright now ;-) |
| 16:48 |
proller |
fuck you |
| 16:48 |
proller |
it was squashed commit of https://github.com/matttpt/minetest/compare/ipv6-revised |
| 16:48 |
sapier |
well last one shows you're still guilty |
| 16:49 |
sapier |
previous ... all of those variables have been unsigned int prior your changes |
| 16:49 |
proller |
you still drugged |
| 16:49 |
proller |
and blind |
| 16:50 |
sapier |
OLD unsigned int a, b, c, d; ---> YOURS u8 a, b, c, d, addr; |
| 16:51 |
proller |
and stupid 8( |
| 16:51 |
proller |
again: |
| 16:51 |
proller |
it was squashed commit of https://github.com/matttpt/minetest/compare/ipv6-revised |
| 16:51 |
proller |
author = /matttpt/ |
| 16:51 |
proller |
got it? |
| 16:52 |
sapier |
ther it's correct! |
| 16:53 |
sapier |
this is the one breaking it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f960c3be313c761fe02f9167dc1fe3fca5dc4ada |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
wait ok ok line 184 |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
still you changed it 3 times ... and never did see it ;-) |
| 16:55 |
sapier |
but things like that happen that's not a problem at al |
| 16:55 |
sapier |
l |
| 16:57 |
proller |
yes, main problem - your overall shitcode |
| 16:58 |
sapier |
I wonder why I keep on trying to find even the slightest sign of self reflection from you ;-P |
| 16:59 |
Megaf_ |
proller: make freeminer work without leveldb |
| 16:59 |
proller |
Megaf_, why? |
| 17:00 |
Megaf_ |
or at least make it find that leveldb is already installed |
| 17:00 |
sapier |
megaf -->#freeminer ... this is about minetest ;-) |
| 17:00 |
proller |
its more possible |
| 17:01 |
* Megaf_ |
looks forward for some MySQL support |
| 17:01 |
proller |
why? |
| 17:01 |
proller |
dont forget oracle and mssql |
| 17:04 |
Megaf_ |
why not? |
| 17:05 |
dsimon |
hm |
| 17:06 |
dsimon |
in the far future, it might be nice to use something like mysql (or some other network-accessible db resource, like mongo or perma-backed redis) |
| 17:06 |
dsimon |
because that could allow minetest server sharding |
| 17:06 |
proller |
but why? |
| 17:06 |
dsimon |
however... that would be really really hard |
| 17:06 |
proller |
you cant run two servers with one database |
| 17:06 |
dsimon |
so the database thing would only get you like 1% of the way there :-) |
| 17:06 |
proller |
also leveldb is fastest |
| 17:08 |
proller |
and it not helps running server on very slow hardware, there is lot of slow places exept database |
| 17:08 |
dsimon |
yeah, indeed |
| 17:09 |
dsimon |
even if the disk were the bottleneck, you could fix that with a networked filesystem |
| 17:09 |
dsimon |
rather than having to mess with the actual app |
| 17:09 |
dsimon |
(or, you know, just getting a better disk...) |
| 17:11 |
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| 17:12 |
Megaf_ |
proller: why? To use different computers, one to run the server task and the other to run the database |
| 17:12 |
proller |
buy one corei7 |
| 17:12 |
Megaf_ |
this would take a huge load from the hardware where the server is running |
| 17:12 |
proller |
no |
| 17:12 |
Megaf_ |
since everything run on ONE FUCKNG SINGLE CORE |
| 17:12 |
Megaf_ |
for fucksake |
| 17:12 |
proller |
database load-save less than 1% |
| 17:12 |
dsimon |
Megaf_, databases are generally not CPU bound |
| 17:13 |
proller |
i have 8 cores on my mobile |
| 17:13 |
proller |
fuckin china 250$ phone |
| 17:13 |
proller |
you can also try run server on 486 cpu, but its stupid |
| 17:14 |
proller |
also this phone 40-50x faster than slowberry pi |
| 17:15 |
Megaf_ |
proller: yep, my phone too |
| 17:15 |
Megaf_ |
and my phone is x86 |
| 17:15 |
sfan5 |
dsimon: you can already use redis and you can already run 2 server with one redis server with that |
| 17:19 |
proller |
and network transfer will slower than local read |
| 17:20 |
proller |
in freeminer you can fal with 100-150 nodes per second speed without stuck |
| 17:20 |
sfan5 |
<proller> and network transfer will slower than local read |
| 17:20 |
sfan5 |
[citation needed] |
| 17:20 |
proller |
with loading blocks (generating slower) |
| 17:20 |
Megaf_ |
why? |
| 17:21 |
Megaf_ |
network can be as fast as local disk |
| 17:21 |
sfan5 |
or even faster |
| 17:21 |
Megaf_ |
all depends on impelemtation and protocol |
| 17:21 |
proller |
remote server = ask server -> server read -> server pack data -> server sends to you -> you recieve -> you unpack data |
| 17:21 |
Megaf_ |
That may be a bad protocol |
| 17:21 |
proller |
leveldb = you read from disk. |
| 17:22 |
Megaf_ |
anyway, how do you think SATA works? |
| 17:22 |
sfan5 |
local disk = ask kernel -> kernel calls driver -> driver reads data -> driver gives the data back to the userspace -> you receive -> you unpack data |
| 17:22 |
proller |
you cant read and two way transfer faster than stupid not locked read |
| 17:23 |
proller |
sfan5, remote server do same |
| 17:23 |
proller |
but + transfer |
| 17:24 |
sfan5 |
any good protocol will not add much metadata |
| 17:24 |
sfan5 |
also redis keeps everything in memory |
| 17:24 |
sfan5 |
and then getting the data is literally just accessing RAM |
| 17:24 |
proller |
you cant make protocol without network transfer |
| 17:24 |
sfan5 |
did i say that? |
| 17:25 |
proller |
keeping 4g data in memory when you use 50m - bad idea |
| 17:25 |
Hunterz |
with redis will be for example put/get to chest faster? or still will see some delay ? |
| 17:25 |
proller |
and you can warm local storage |
| 17:26 |
sfan5 |
local storage is still much much much slower than RAM |
| 17:26 |
sfan5 |
RAM only exists because local storage is too slow |
| 17:26 |
Megaf_ |
finally someone who knows something |
| 17:26 |
proller |
slow for what ? |
| 17:27 |
Hunterz |
are there some minetest benchmarks ? |
| 17:27 |
sfan5 |
slow for reading/writing data |
| 17:27 |
Megaf_ |
and HUGE latency |
| 17:27 |
sfan5 |
(compared to RAM, yes) |
| 17:27 |
Megaf_ |
I can't believe we are still using mechanical disks |
| 17:27 |
proller |
but it not a bottlneck |
| 17:27 |
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| 17:27 |
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| 17:27 |
sapier |
Hunterz: none I know about |
| 17:28 |
Hunterz |
any public server running wit redis? I would like to compare as player |
| 17:28 |
Megaf_ |
minetestserver is jusr slow by design |
| 17:28 |
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| 17:28 |
* sfan5 |
uses redis for floatlands survival server |
| 17:28 |
sfan5 |
but my upload speed is not that gret |
| 17:28 |
sfan5 |
great* |
| 17:28 |
proller |
Hunterz, try any setun.net server ;) |
| 17:28 |
* Megaf_ |
tested redis, leveldb and sqlite3, on a local network, everything is slow |
| 17:28 |
Hunterz |
ok, thank |
| 17:28 |
proller |
and compare with any redis |
| 17:29 |
Hunterz |
without redis i see lag during chest access |
| 17:29 |
sfan5 |
it would be better to test it on a device that is actually has good upload speeds |
| 17:29 |
proller |
Hunterz, chest access - other problem |
| 17:29 |
Hunterz |
i have i7 with ssd and much ram |
| 17:29 |
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| 17:29 |
sfan5 |
proller: we are comparing database backends only, not all improvement freeminer might or might not have over MT |
| 17:29 |
proller |
sfan5, very important. |
| 17:30 |
Hunterz |
what problem have chest and propably others containers? |
| 17:30 |
sfan5 |
can you reword your sentence? |
| 17:30 |
RealBadAngel |
anybody checked #1308 ? |
| 17:30 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1308 -- Item entity stacks merge on the ground, add TTL. by RealBadAngel |
| 17:30 |
sfan5 |
Hunterz: formspec needs to be sent to client |
| 17:33 |
sfan5 |
<Megaf_> I can't believe we are still using mechanical disks |
| 17:33 |
sfan5 |
that is just because mechanical disk space is so cheap |
| 17:33 |
sfan5 |
and flash memory has it's disadvantages too |
| 17:33 |
sfan5 |
we've talked about that already |
| 17:37 |
Megaf_ |
I'm not a fan of SSDs either |
| 17:37 |
Megaf_ |
ferromagnetic memory is a cood thing |
| 17:38 |
Megaf_ |
reliable as hdds and fast as dram |
| 17:38 |
Megaf_ |
but it's density is nothing close to the ssds |
| 17:39 |
sfan5 |
throw some money at the part of freescale that researches this thing, maybe they'll do it faster |
| 17:42 |
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| 17:45 |
dsimon |
sfan5, two minetest on one redis? |
| 17:45 |
dsimon |
i take it you don't mean they're running the same world |
| 17:48 |
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| 17:48 |
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| 17:50 |
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| 17:51 |
Megaf_ |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3592 |
| 17:51 |
Megaf_ |
250 MB/s on a tape |
| 17:51 |
Megaf_ |
not bad |
| 17:51 |
Megaf_ |
and 4 TB |
| 17:52 |
dsimon |
wow |
| 17:52 |
dsimon |
what's the seek speed on that, though? |
| 17:53 |
Megaf_ |
a couple of seconds |
| 17:53 |
Megaf_ |
this one is pretty impressive too, 8.5 TB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StorageTek_tape_formats#T10000 |
| 17:55 |
sapier |
I guess a desaster ;-) high continous reading bandwidth is completely to unrelated to read positioning ... in worst case this is as slow as reading from beginning to the location you wanna read ;-) |
| 17:55 |
sapier |
-to |
| 17:55 |
dsimon |
so, fantastic for dumps, not so great for random access |
| 17:55 |
Megaf_ |
they are not made for random access |
| 17:56 |
sapier |
tapes are archive only so random access isn't at all a optimization target |
| 17:56 |
dsimon |
Megaf_, yah, i guess i'm just curious why you bring it up in a context when we were talking about a random-access database |
| 17:56 |
dsimon |
i guess just cause it's cool? :-) |
| 17:56 |
Megaf_ |
Yep |
| 17:56 |
Megaf_ |
isnt it? |
| 17:56 |
dsimon |
yah |
| 17:57 |
sapier |
in generally yes but not at minetest-dev ;-) |
| 17:57 |
RealBadAngel |
sony has annouced 250TB tape based data storage... |
| 17:57 |
Megaf_ |
RealBadAngel: Oh, I read about there somewhere |
| 17:58 |
Megaf_ |
Quite easy to extend the capacity of tapes, just roll on more tape :P |
| 17:58 |
sapier |
for what I remember sony did it a different way |
| 17:58 |
dsimon |
i kinda like disc burner jukeboxes for that too |
| 17:59 |
RealBadAngel |
not just that, it has density 148 GB per square inch |
| 17:59 |
dsimon |
though the write speed there is abysmal |
| 18:00 |
RealBadAngel |
i think thats rather for archives, not regular usage |
| 18:01 |
* dsimon |
nods |
| 18:03 |
RealBadAngel |
also they announced 1TB optical discs |
| 18:03 |
RealBadAngel |
http://interestingengineering.com/sony-and-panasonic-announce-1tb-optical-discs/ |
| 18:04 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont even have blue ray yet, and it looks like it will become outdated before i get one ;) |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:09 |
Megaf_ |
RealBadAngel: but for now we have to use HDDs... |
| 18:10 |
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| 18:14 |
RealBadAngel |
ok, ive added config example to #1308, it is now complete |
| 18:14 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1308 -- Item entity stacks merge on the ground, add TTL. by RealBadAngel |
| 18:17 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: did you remove the newline at the end of file? |
| 18:18 |
RealBadAngel |
lemme check |
| 18:19 |
sapier |
imho 900 seconds are a little bit small I'd suggest something around half an hour |
| 18:20 |
sapier |
and using on_activate to decrement age counter too |
| 18:21 |
RealBadAngel |
900s is 15 minutes |
| 18:21 |
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| 18:21 |
RealBadAngel |
and yup, newline is gone, shall i re-add it? |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
on_activate is called only when item got loaded |
| 18:22 |
RealBadAngel |
it has nothing to do with item's age (only just that it loads the variables) |
| 18:22 |
sapier |
hmm ok I somehow had 7.5 min in mind but you're right ... hmm 15 minutes is short too but not as short as what I thought |
| 18:23 |
sapier |
yes but you store item age so why don't you update it on_activate too? |
| 18:23 |
RealBadAngel |
it depends on game time |
| 18:23 |
RealBadAngel |
so no need to update it |
| 18:24 |
sapier |
hmm that's not good |
| 18:24 |
sapier |
if time changes or overflows that's gonna fail |
| 18:24 |
RealBadAngel |
if it wont fail imho |
| 18:24 |
RealBadAngel |
time = current time - time of creation |
| 18:24 |
sapier |
simple and for sure error free would be setting ttl to 900 and just do a count down |
| 18:25 |
sapier |
self.age = self.age -dtime |
| 18:25 |
sapier |
if self.age < 0 -->remove |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
dsimon: no I don't |
| 18:26 |
RealBadAngel |
but then unloaded items will live for way longer than they should |
| 18:26 |
sapier |
no |
| 18:26 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc |
| 18:27 |
sapier |
on_activate provides time passed since deactivation |
| 18:28 |
RealBadAngel |
hmm, how much is dtime? |
| 18:28 |
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| 18:28 |
RealBadAngel |
in seconds |
| 18:28 |
sapier |
unit is seconds |
| 18:28 |
sapier |
it's a float value |
| 18:28 |
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| 18:28 |
RealBadAngel |
1 step != 1 second |
| 18:29 |
sapier |
yes that'S why you do a self.age -dtime |
| 18:29 |
sapier |
dtime is time since last step |
| 18:29 |
RealBadAngel |
ah, ok |
| 18:30 |
RealBadAngel |
but i dont want it to be decremented anyway |
| 18:30 |
sapier |
why not? |
| 18:30 |
RealBadAngel |
because it serves also another purpose |
| 18:30 |
sapier |
which one? |
| 18:30 |
RealBadAngel |
its "immune" time for item's auto pickup |
| 18:31 |
RealBadAngel |
so one can throw away an item |
| 18:31 |
sapier |
and what'S the problem on decrementing? |
| 18:31 |
RealBadAngel |
i assume you cant auto pickup item with time <3s |
| 18:31 |
sapier |
"core.get_gametime() - self.age" will cause an error on unit overflow |
| 18:32 |
sapier |
well that check would be (start_ttl - ttl) > 3 |
| 18:33 |
RealBadAngel |
ok, i will change that |
| 18:39 |
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| 18:39 |
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| 18:41 |
BlockMen |
RealBadAngel, why do you add this stacking stuff with TTL? that makes no sense at all |
| 18:42 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc that makes sense, both solutions are to make server's life easier |
| 18:43 |
RealBadAngel |
also having one bigger cobble rotating on the ground is way better than 99 ones |
| 18:43 |
RealBadAngel |
even for just 15 minutes |
| 18:43 |
BlockMen |
that is your opinion |
| 18:44 |
RealBadAngel |
not only mine, so far youre the only ONE that is against that |
| 18:45 |
sapier |
I share RealBadAngel's opinion, but I see reason to get a more wide acceptance of that feature prior adding/not adding it too |
| 18:45 |
BlockMen |
have you any proove that it lowers the server workload noticeable? |
| 18:46 |
proller |
TTL is wery bad idea |
| 18:47 |
sapier |
sorry RealBadAngel I guess I'm responsible for the second "no" proller always says no to what I suggest ;-) |
| 18:48 |
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| 18:51 |
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nore joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
nore, and whats your opinion on #1308 ? |
| 18:57 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1308 -- Item entity stacks merge on the ground, add TTL. by RealBadAngel |
| 18:57 |
RealBadAngel |
proller, you can always disable TTL |
| 18:58 |
proller |
its ok, but anyway loosing entities - not good |
| 18:58 |
sapier |
proller you can disable it |
| 18:59 |
RealBadAngel |
its not good either players dropping their stuff everywhere and not takin care of them |
| 19:00 |
proller |
you can disable lot og users WTF about loose items |
| 19:00 |
proller |
RealBadAngel, why? |
| 19:00 |
sapier |
proller you're gonna loose them right now too |
| 19:01 |
sapier |
just drop it while there are already 49 entities (or whatever you configured) |
| 19:01 |
RealBadAngel |
try dropping your diamond pick on the street, we will see how long it will last before some1 make it disappear ;) |
| 19:01 |
proller |
sapier, first problem with entities - your mobf |
| 19:02 |
sapier |
If I'd get a single cent for everytime I'm accussed for no reason I'd be rich ;-P |
| 19:03 |
proller |
no reason? lol |
| 19:03 |
RealBadAngel |
what mobs have to do with items ttl for christ sake? |
| 19:03 |
proller |
mobf alvays overflow item limit everywhere |
| 19:03 |
sapier |
who told you you have to use mobf? if you don't like it don't use it |
| 19:04 |
RealBadAngel |
proller, so just code better mobs, easy as that |
| 19:04 |
sapier |
or write valid error reports and suggestions ... just plain telling "it's bad" wont improve anything |
| 19:04 |
proller |
sapier, while you not use your soft all suggestions useless |
| 19:04 |
RealBadAngel |
and we are not talkin bout mobs right now |
| 19:05 |
sapier |
sorry proller I can't play minetest 12h a day I have to do some work too ;-P |
| 19:05 |
RealBadAngel |
but having less entities thx to mergeing and ttl will surely help mobs |
| 19:05 |
proller |
nothing helps mobs |
| 19:05 |
proller |
merging when digging - very good |
| 19:06 |
proller |
but dropping faster than ~week - bad |
| 19:06 |
proller |
i'm about defaults |
| 19:06 |
RealBadAngel |
week? lol |
| 19:06 |
proller |
also sometimes lot of items located underground - they can be cleaned |
| 19:06 |
BlockMen |
i would be fine when they are merged with player action (lets say when droped by player) |
| 19:06 |
BlockMen |
but not e.g. for sapling |
| 19:06 |
BlockMen |
or other non player items |
| 19:07 |
proller |
RealBadAngel, on Sky server map near year old, and you can find year old entites in some places |
| 19:07 |
RealBadAngel |
what about 4k of leaves falling down from oak? |
| 19:07 |
RealBadAngel |
have you ever thought about that? |
| 19:07 |
BlockMen |
RealBadAngel, then redo the leave decay code, not the item code |
| 19:07 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 19:08 |
BlockMen |
yes |
| 19:08 |
RealBadAngel |
this is the common way how it should be done |
| 19:08 |
BlockMen |
better than this merge stugg |
| 19:08 |
BlockMen |
*ff |
| 19:08 |
BlockMen |
no, dont merge "natural" items |
| 19:08 |
BlockMen |
it is just odd |
| 19:09 |
RealBadAngel |
if some1 wanna have nonsense behaviour, thousands of items spinnin in one pos, let him mod that |
| 19:09 |
RealBadAngel |
current items behaviour is just pain in the ass |
| 19:09 |
BlockMen |
just because you say its "nonsense" it has not to be |
| 19:09 |
BlockMen |
and explain why it is currently a pain |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
just stand in place and drop several stacks of cobble one by one piece |
| 19:10 |
BlockMen |
^ lol, what? |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
and see how it works and looks like |
| 19:10 |
BlockMen |
who would do that? |
| 19:10 |
BlockMen |
that is just stupid |
| 19:10 |
RealBadAngel |
this is how it works |
| 19:10 |
BlockMen |
but no one does (except you maybe) |
| 19:11 |
RealBadAngel |
me? game does |
| 19:11 |
BlockMen |
single items of stacks dont drop without player action |
| 19:13 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, have you actually tried to play with that code? |
| 19:13 |
RealBadAngel |
because i have the feeling you have not |
| 19:15 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest-technic/item_tweaks |
| 19:16 |
RealBadAngel |
and add that to config: |
| 19:16 |
RealBadAngel |
enable_item_drops = true |
| 19:16 |
RealBadAngel |
enable_item_pickup = true |
| 19:16 |
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| 19:17 |
RealBadAngel |
also about TTL, that can be used instead of bones |
| 19:17 |
RealBadAngel |
drop the player's inv on the ground, add waypoint to death pos |
| 19:18 |
RealBadAngel |
that will bring back to game some risk |
| 19:19 |
RealBadAngel |
by now game feels like kindergarten, no risk at all, no reason to care about anythin |
| 19:19 |
RealBadAngel |
and that makes game boring |
| 19:22 |
BlockMen |
game is frozen, so bones will stay |
| 19:22 |
BlockMen |
and no, but you know what |
| 19:22 |
BlockMen |
idc ...merge it or not |
| 19:23 |
BlockMen |
i will override it in my games anyway, so do what you want |
| 19:23 |
RealBadAngel |
whats frozen can be melted ;) |
| 19:23 |
RealBadAngel |
just jokin, but thats an idea to discuss |
| 19:23 |
BlockMen |
no, re-read the log of yesterday |
| 19:24 |
BlockMen |
lets game dead for now |
| 19:24 |
BlockMen |
*-s |
| 19:24 |
RealBadAngel |
fighting boredom in gameplay is much more important than whacky idea of freezing the code |
| 19:24 |
BlockMen |
more important now is to figure out a way how to chose the games that will be bundled with 0.4.10 |
| 19:25 |
RealBadAngel |
that will bring much more fights to the channel than mt game changes imho ;) |
| 19:25 |
BlockMen |
read this |
| 19:25 |
BlockMen |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=138276#p138276 |
| 19:25 |
RealBadAngel |
i wont even start proposing technic_game for that |
| 19:26 |
RealBadAngel |
mainly because technic_game is around 250mb right now |
| 19:27 |
RealBadAngel |
but wont be released until 0.4.10 comes |
| 19:28 |
BlockMen |
well, we found a reason for not including games now: SIZE ;) |
| 19:29 |
Calinou |
not all games are 250MB |
| 19:29 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc not |
| 19:29 |
Exio4 |
even 20MB is heavy Calinou |
| 19:29 |
BlockMen |
i wouldnt include games > 5 MB |
| 19:30 |
Calinou |
Carbone is not much heavier, without .git |
| 19:30 |
Calinou |
I did everything to compress it :P |
| 19:30 |
RealBadAngel |
but mine will come with high res tp, normals and parallax support |
| 19:30 |
RealBadAngel |
and all the eyecandies possible |
| 19:30 |
RealBadAngel |
including music |
| 19:30 |
Exio4 |
do we have a moddb for games? |
| 19:30 |
BlockMen |
RealBadAngel, then its IMO not wise to bundle it with the engine |
| 19:30 |
BlockMen |
its just toooooo big |
| 19:30 |
RealBadAngel |
i know |
| 19:31 |
RealBadAngel |
technic game is not for basic download |
| 19:31 |
RealBadAngel |
its a total option |
| 19:31 |
RealBadAngel |
weaker machines wont even handle it |
| 19:33 |
RealBadAngel |
BlockMen, so, what about trying item_tweaks? |
| 19:33 |
RealBadAngel |
can you give it a shot? |
| 19:34 |
RealBadAngel |
it has some more features not mentioned in this conversation... |
| 19:35 |
BlockMen |
RealBadAngel : http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-05-21#i_3714187 |
| 19:38 |
RealBadAngel |
so just watch, if you dont want to try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnwk5XZ6DQE |
| 19:40 |
BlockMen |
ik the videos |
| 20:05 |
RealBadAngel |
ok |
| 20:06 |
RealBadAngel |
i guess you gonna just stay as one of the very few that dont like the feature ;) |
| 20:07 |
RealBadAngel |
one thing wonders me, why proller in private said he like it but in public said he does not ;) |
| 20:07 |
RealBadAngel |
maybe just for sake being opposite to sapier as usual ;) |
| 20:11 |
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| 20:17 |
iqualfragile |
RealBadAngel: is ther efinally real light in minetest? |
| 20:18 |
RealBadAngel |
not yet, its a long road for just one coder... |
| 20:19 |
RealBadAngel |
i am at the doorstep of rendering buffers and image postprocessing |
| 20:20 |
RealBadAngel |
for that i had to rebuild whole shaders handling |
| 20:20 |
RealBadAngel |
which is done and waiting for feedback |
| 20:22 |
BlockMen |
RealBadAngel, is it possible to disable waving for lava now? |
| 20:22 |
RealBadAngel |
with the code that waits in line it will be |
| 20:22 |
RealBadAngel |
shaders are assigned there by tile |
| 20:22 |
RealBadAngel |
or by specific node |
| 20:23 |
BlockMen |
very good |
| 20:23 |
RealBadAngel |
in the future i plan to introduce own lava shader |
| 20:24 |
BlockMen |
how would i disable it for lava then? |
| 20:24 |
BlockMen |
waving = 0? |
| 20:24 |
RealBadAngel |
by now its assigned by liquid |
| 20:24 |
RealBadAngel |
so all liquids do wave |
| 20:25 |
RealBadAngel |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxUXNNFpPpc |
| 20:25 |
RealBadAngel |
^^ example lava shader |
| 20:25 |
BlockMen |
with your current pull, can i set lava to not wave at the same time having water waves? |
| 20:27 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/blob/shaders_unite/src/nodedef.cpp#L699 |
| 20:27 |
RealBadAngel |
we can add there another shader for just lava |
| 20:28 |
RealBadAngel |
here water_shader is assigned just for one tile (because of water reflections, that will be shown just on surface) |
| 20:29 |
BlockMen |
and/or apply the shader only if waving = 1 (like for plants&leaves)? |
| 20:29 |
RealBadAngel |
this is done in shaders code |
| 20:29 |
sapier |
maybe we should think about a way to specify shaders in nodedef? |
| 20:29 |
RealBadAngel |
shaders are instanced |
| 20:29 |
RealBadAngel |
for each drawtype and material type |
| 20:30 |
RealBadAngel |
but from single source one |
| 20:30 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/blob/shaders_unite/client/shaders/nodes_shader/opengl_vertex.glsl#L57 |
| 20:31 |
RealBadAngel |
so all the transformations are depending on passed types to shader |
| 20:32 |
BlockMen |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/blob/shaders_unite/src/nodedef.cpp#L687,L688 i mean like that, so having a liquid and a liquid_waving material |
| 20:32 |
BlockMen |
then depending on nodedef you can choose liquid or liquid_waving as material |
| 20:34 |
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| 20:36 |
RealBadAngel |
BlockMen, yeah, we can do that this way, no problemo |
| 20:38 |
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| 20:38 |
BlockMen |
good :) |
| 20:39 |
RealBadAngel |
this way we will separate all the liquids |
| 20:39 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, there was an idea out there |
| 20:40 |
RealBadAngel |
regarding water at all |
| 20:40 |
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| 20:40 |
RealBadAngel |
to introduce ocean water (waving) and still water - lakes, rivers, artificial channels - not waving |
| 20:41 |
RealBadAngel |
but that should be made at mapgen level |
| 20:41 |
RealBadAngel |
and then just handled |
| 20:42 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, looks like im done with using dtime for ageing |
| 20:42 |
RealBadAngel |
im suprised because code become even simplier with that |
| 20:44 |
sapier |
I thought so that's why I suggested it |
| 20:44 |
sapier |
did you already update the pull request? |
| 20:46 |
RealBadAngel |
not yet, adding now proper age for unloaded entities |
| 20:55 |
* VanessaE |
peeks in |
| 20:55 |
VanessaE |
is it safe now? |
| 20:57 |
BlockMen |
VanessaE, its never safe on #-dev :P |
| 20:57 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 20:57 |
RealBadAngel |
hi VanessaE |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
hi |
| 21:05 |
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| 21:25 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, something is wrong with dtime_s in on_activate |
| 21:27 |
RealBadAngel |
http://pastebin.com/TwctaMkp |
| 21:27 |
RealBadAngel |
it prints always 4 |
| 21:27 |
sapier |
I'm gonna check |
| 21:29 |
RealBadAngel |
it works when i let them unload without leaving to menu |
| 21:29 |
RealBadAngel |
but when i exit to menu and go back |
| 21:29 |
RealBadAngel |
it is always 4 |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
sounds like something not beeing persisted correctly |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
that's strange |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
dtime_s isn't a float but a unsigned int value |
| 21:33 |
RealBadAngel |
looks like, its always rounded |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
4 |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
4 |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
4 |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
40 |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
34 |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
34 |
| 21:34 |
sapier |
can you upload your current code for me to test? |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
sure |
| 21:34 |
sapier |
dtime_s is only seconds |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
ok, but why always 4 on start? |
| 21:35 |
sapier |
that's a good question |
| 21:35 |
RealBadAngel |
propably time since server starts |
| 21:36 |
sapier |
maybe |
| 21:36 |
sapier |
that'd mean ttl will run in "gametime" instead of realtime |
| 21:37 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest-technic/item_tweaks |
| 21:37 |
RealBadAngel |
uploaded |
| 21:37 |
sapier |
that's not what I had in mind but it'd be not that bad |
| 21:37 |
RealBadAngel |
not really |
| 21:37 |
sapier |
actually that's quite strange |
| 21:38 |
RealBadAngel |
if player dies, he could just exit the game and go back |
| 21:38 |
RealBadAngel |
to let his items live longer |
| 21:38 |
RealBadAngel |
and thats kinda cheat |
| 21:38 |
sapier |
well that'd happen for gametime usage too |
| 21:38 |
RealBadAngel |
actually no |
| 21:38 |
sapier |
that's a basic flaw in block timestamps |
| 21:38 |
sapier |
why not? |
| 21:39 |
RealBadAngel |
game time flows |
| 21:39 |
sapier |
no |
| 21:39 |
RealBadAngel |
reseting it to 4s each load is different |
| 21:39 |
sapier |
sorry don't get it yet |
| 21:39 |
RealBadAngel |
it flows when game is loaded |
| 21:39 |
sapier |
gametime starts on each game |
| 21:40 |
sapier |
so if a block containing is unloaded he'd not recognize the change too |
| 21:40 |
sapier |
I suggest fixing the timestamps to be real timestamps not gametime timestamps |
| 21:41 |
RealBadAngel |
lemme check something |
| 21:41 |
sapier |
dtime_s = m_game_time - block->getTimestamp(); |
| 21:41 |
sapier |
is the code calculating the dtime_s |
| 21:42 |
RealBadAngel |
youre wrong |
| 21:42 |
RealBadAngel |
game time is time since world creation |
| 21:42 |
RealBadAngel |
not since it is loaded |
| 21:42 |
sapier |
then there has to be another bug |
| 21:43 |
RealBadAngel |
not really |
| 21:43 |
sapier |
true, it's correct |
| 21:43 |
sapier |
if you exit and enter that may be at least 4s |
| 21:43 |
sapier |
well on a very fast machine you could get shorter values |
| 21:44 |
sapier |
you could try by droping something, teleport away, exit, wait, telpor back |
| 21:44 |
sapier |
dtime_s should be the time you've been away (almost) |
| 21:45 |
RealBadAngel |
it is when youre still ingame |
| 21:45 |
sapier |
it should be the time the game was running |
| 21:45 |
sapier |
if you stop your server say for a day, that time won't be honored |
| 21:45 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc |
| 21:46 |
sapier |
I'd be fine with that behavioud, ok loosing subsecond precision wasn't anticipated but imho there could be worse |
| 21:46 |
RealBadAngel |
but when servers shuts down it shall write current dtime_s |
| 21:47 |
sapier |
why? the dtime_s depends on gametime |
| 21:47 |
RealBadAngel |
exactly |
| 21:47 |
RealBadAngel |
but some of it got lost when server exits |
| 21:47 |
sapier |
and gametime is time of world existance? or did I missunderstand |
| 21:48 |
RealBadAngel |
look, i flew away from items |
| 21:48 |
RealBadAngel |
block got unloaded |
| 21:48 |
sapier |
ok |
| 21:48 |
RealBadAngel |
i get back and had dtime_s around 40s |
| 21:48 |
RealBadAngel |
now im exiting the game |
| 21:48 |
RealBadAngel |
and loading it back |
| 21:48 |
sapier |
while beeing there or while beeing away? |
| 21:48 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have dtime_s = 4s |
| 21:49 |
sapier |
if you exited right next to your items the 4s are most likely fine |
| 21:49 |
sapier |
dtime_s is time since last deactivation |
| 21:50 |
RealBadAngel |
so i have to use game time for ttl no matter what |
| 21:50 |
sapier |
no |
| 21:50 |
sapier |
if you leave the game right next to the items |
| 21:50 |
sapier |
then gametime is stopped on exiting game |
| 21:51 |
sapier |
if you enter again it continues ... then once the items are activated you get told how much (game) time passed since they've been unloaded |
| 21:52 |
sapier |
or do I missunderstand what you wanna tell me? |
| 21:53 |
RealBadAngel |
damn, now it looks like it started to work |
| 21:53 |
RealBadAngel |
time seems to be correctly preserved |
| 21:54 |
RealBadAngel |
hell, no |
| 21:54 |
RealBadAngel |
something weird happens here |
| 21:54 |
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| 21:54 |
RealBadAngel |
lemme pastebin some timings |
| 21:54 |
sapier |
ok :-) |
| 21:54 |
sapier |
I wonder if there'S still something broken about entity de/activation |
| 21:55 |
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| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
http://pastebin.com/GuTumnvB |
| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
ive dropped a few items |
| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
exited the game |
| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
and had proper timings |
| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
now did that again |
| 21:58 |
RealBadAngel |
and all is reseted |
| 21:59 |
RealBadAngel |
and each time i get different values |
| 22:00 |
sapier |
let me have a look at your code I don't understand |
| 22:01 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest-technic/item_tweaks/blob/master/item_entity.lua#L75 |
| 22:02 |
RealBadAngel |
it looks like sometimes it deserialzes data.age, sometimes dont |
| 22:03 |
RealBadAngel |
definitely something is wrong with that part |
| 22:04 |
sapier |
that'S strange, what's the itemstring supposed to be? legacy? |
| 22:08 |
sapier |
hmm I have a suggestion to check, maybe entity staticdata isn't updated because of position not having changed ... that'd be a ugly bug ... but could be true |
| 22:11 |
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| 22:11 |
sapier |
self:set_item(self.itemstring) |
| 22:11 |
sapier |
you reset the age on each activation |
| 22:12 |
sapier |
last line of set_item function |
| 22:17 |
RealBadAngel |
huh? |
| 22:18 |
sapier |
you set self.age at end of set_item to 0 and you always call set_item in on_activate |
| 22:18 |
sapier |
that's resulting in self.age always beeing 0 after on_activate |
| 22:19 |
sapier |
that's why you see correct times on first join too as they're restored correctly ... but overwritten right after printing them |
| 22:19 |
RealBadAngel |
stupid bug :) |
| 22:19 |
sapier |
all bugs are stupid once you've found them ;-) |
| 22:21 |
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