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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-05-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:57 ShadowNinja Comments? http://sprunge.us/HWYL?diff
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01:33 OldCoder Hello. Has the core been changed to access player files differently?
01:34 OldCoder For example, is any sort of readdir loop used?
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01:42 ShadowNinja OldCoder: No, not recently.  The way it does it is very ugly though (it involves loading every file at startup and for each player on each save).
01:42 OldCoder ShadowNinja, behavior seems to have changed very oddly. No request for investigation but comment on the following...
01:42 OldCoder I had backup copies of the player files named bacon.old in the same folder
01:43 OldCoder So MissMarple was backed up to MissMarple.old etc.
01:43 OldCoder Starting recently, changes made in-game were written to the *.old files instead of the main player files
01:43 OldCoder Is this comprehensible?
01:44 ShadowNinja OldCoder: Yes.  It doesn't care about the file name.  It checks all files for their name= line.  (Because some OSes have case-insensitive filesystems and player names are case-sensitive)
01:44 OldCoder Ah!!
01:44 OldCoder Very well
01:45 OldCoder For some reason this didn't cause problems before
01:45 OldCoder Thanks
01:45 ShadowNinja OldCoder: Must have randomly stumbled on the other file first before.
01:45 OldCoder Yep
01:45 ShadowNinja (The correct one that it)
01:45 OldCoder I added safety code to my startup scripts
01:46 OldCoder If the player files seem to have been corrupted due to crashes, they get reset using the backups
01:46 OldCoder I'll just move the backups to another folder
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07:10 VanessaE um, guys...is there a reason why the debug.txt is not showing the entire list of players?
07:10 VanessaE 03:10:00: ACTION[ServerThread]: testuser joins game. List of players: VanessaEzekowitz
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07:22 VanessaE (my stats scripts scrape the logs waiting for those "List of players" lines. since the list is always one short, or empty if it should have exactly one item, it throws off my counts)
07:26 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1317
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12:41 Megaf Look at the CPU usege on my Raspberry Pi, http://paste.debian.net/100788/
12:41 Megaf I'm quite happy with it
12:48 proller__ 0 players and 0 mods ?
12:50 * Megaf gets a pile of Raspberry Pis an throws at proller__
12:51 * proller__ defends with odroid
12:51 * sfan5 meows at proller__
12:53 * Megaf gets his ODroid U3 and throws at proller__
12:54 proller__ you can serve 30-40 players on odroid without lags and with mods on <censored> ;)
12:55 Megaf proller__: are you sure?
12:55 proller__ yes
12:56 Megaf My ODroid start to lag with 9+ players
12:56 proller__ yes
12:56 proller__ my works with 20 players ok
12:56 proller__ but your faster
12:57 Megaf I absolutely hate this 09:56:29: ERROR[ServerThread]: Server::ProcessData(): Cancelling: No player for peer_id=76
12:58 Megaf I'm shuting down one of my servers
12:58 proller__ kill sapier, save minetest
12:59 Megaf $ git clone https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer.git
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13:00 proller__ infidel !
13:03 Megaf ~/freeminer $ time make -j 1
13:03 Megaf :)
13:04 Megaf see ya minetest
13:04 PenguinDad Megaf: the -j 1 is not required ;)
13:05 Megaf PenguinDad: heh
13:05 Megaf I know
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14:23 rubenwardy ShadowNinja: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1318
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14:57 rubenwardy Any reason why "minetest.exe --worldname nbe_test --name player1 --password pass --go" won't load the nbe_test world, and instead loads the first world alphabetically?
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15:56 sapier >Megaf  I absolutely hate this 09:56:29: ERROR[ServerThread]: Server::ProcessData(): Cancelling: No player for peer_id=76< THIS IS an error you've got a peer without a player
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15:57 proller sapier, you wrote code without trying to run it
15:57 sapier blahblahblah
15:57 sapier I wrote code for a server not for a pocket calculator like pi true ;-P
15:57 proller you dont know what you doing
15:58 sapier but you the one saving 16 bit in a 8 bit variable do? ;)
15:59 proller wat?
15:59 sapier check commit logs a few weeks ago
15:59 proller only one way to save minetest - remove commit priv from you
16:00 proller show line
16:00 sapier to get a lot of prolerish while ( x < 10 ) commits which fix it for exactly your machine?
16:01 proller what?
16:06 Calinou “// If node blocks camera position don't move y to heigh” in camera.cpp. WTF? two typos in one line?
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16:17 RealBadAngel sapier, have u tried item_tweaks?
16:23 rubenwardy Any reason why "minetest.exe --worldname nbe_test --name player1 --password pass --go" won't load the nbe_test world, and instead loads the first world alphabetically?
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16:31 sapier rba is the pull request it's latest version?
16:31 sapier rubenwardy: I guess that's not gonna be very helpfull but I'd bet on a bug ;-)
16:31 rubenwardy Can someone try to reproduce?
16:33 RealBadAngel sapier, https://github.com/minetest-technic/item_tweaks
16:34 sapier rubenwardy: can you post a console log somewhere?
16:34 ShadowNinja rubenwardy: --worldname is server-only.
16:35 rubenwardy so there is no way to do it
16:36 sapier ShadowNinja: I don't think so, at least the parameter itself isn't
16:37 kaeza using an old build, but can reproduce it
16:37 kaeza it loads whatever is in `world' setting
16:38 rubenwardy selected_world_path  ?
16:38 kaeza err... `selected_world_path'
16:38 rubenwardy inb4 XD
16:38 kaeza ninja'd :P
16:39 sapier well if the gui is shown that will override it of course
16:40 kaeza does --go count as "showing the GUI"?
16:40 rubenwardy --go skips the main menu
16:40 sapier hmm I don't know I usually either use minetestserver OR gui (minetest)
16:41 rubenwardy I want to start a singleplayer game from the command line
16:41 rubenwardy I guess I should just start a server client pair for now
16:42 sapier well I guess I didn't know about that usecase on switching mainmenu to lua, I'm gonna fix it
16:42 kaeza rubenwardy, coding some kind of frontend?
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16:43 rubenwardy Adding a button in NBE to run the mod in Minetest
16:43 kaeza ah, useful :)
16:43 rubenwardy The folder creation support in C++ is a bit crap
16:43 rubenwardy this is my current code: https://gist.github.com/rube​nwardy/c5c91429110e7d63bdf7
16:44 rubenwardy I don't want to use boost
16:45 kaeza and not portable from what I can see
16:45 rubenwardy It works on Linux and Windows
16:46 kaeza >mkdir.append("\\worlds\\");
16:46 rubenwardy \ (ie directory\path.txt) works in Windows and Linux
16:46 rubenwardy / (ie directory/path.txt) only works in Linux
16:50 ShadowNinja sapier: I believe it's only used with --server.
16:50 ShadowNinja sapier: It should probably be read always though.
16:50 ShadowNinja sapier: Or whenever --go is passed.
16:51 rubenwardy I hate \ in file systems. It is SO ugly
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16:58 sapier ShadowNinja: I think it's a minor change, even if it did never work that way it's worth adding give me a few minutes
17:06 sapier rubenwardy: could you check #1319 works for you too?
17:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1319 -- Add support for directly starting a world by name from command line by sapier
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17:34 RealBadAngel farming mod's bread texture has 1 semi transparent pixel in it, so it is broken while wielded or used in item entity
17:34 RealBadAngel should i make a pull for it or i can just commit a fix?
17:38 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: Just push a fix, no need for review as long as it only changes that one pixel and is a bug.
17:46 BlockMen https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=6&amp;t=9229
17:46 BlockMen ^ maybe we should move it to the bottom again?
17:46 RealBadAngel also screwdriver is using hacky_swap_node instead of core.swap_node
17:46 RealBadAngel can i push that too?
17:47 BlockMen RealBadAngel, sure
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17:58 ShadowNinja Is it?  I thought I fixed that.
17:59 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/​blob/master/mods/screwdriver/init.lua#L119
18:05 RealBadAngel ah yes, i have it fixed on my copy, havent noticed you already did the same
18:05 RealBadAngel so ok
18:18 rubenwardy Another bug: if you start a client with --worldname world --go, it doesn't work. You have to supply --user --password as well
18:19 sapier1 if this wasn't different anytime before I'd not consider this to be a bug
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18:35 ShadowNinja sapier: Wouldn't "singleplayer" and "" make most sense?
18:37 sapier I'm not sure, next time someone complains why doesn't server start
18:37 rubenwardy I hate it when software tells me that my name is Rubenwardy not rubenwardy
18:37 sapier but if there's a majority for using it the change is minor
18:37 rubenwardy woops
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19:25 sapier RealBadAngel: I tried https://github.com/minetest-technic/item_tweaks I like it. What about adding it to minimal and default? (at least if we can't get it to builtin)
19:26 VanessaE I told him he should do that
19:37 dsimon RealBadAngel, minor indentation problem on https://github.com/minetest-technic/ite​m_tweaks/blob/master/item_drop.lua#L420
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20:01 BlockMen "default" is frozen, sapier
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20:03 sapier if it's added to minimal default has to follow ;-)
20:05 BlockMen no? minimal is not frozen, default is
20:05 BlockMen *minetest_game
20:06 sapier everything beeing frozen can be unfrozen in case there's will to do
20:06 VanessaE put it in builtin
20:06 VanessaE it's too useful a feature not to give to everyone
20:07 VanessaE on a different note:
20:07 BlockMen sapier, so we gonna freeze and unfreeze things daily now?
20:07 VanessaE is there some way yet to force one mapgen-based mod to always run before another?
20:07 BlockMen or just depending on mood?
20:07 VanessaE have we not fixed that yet?
20:08 BlockMen VanessaE, doesnt it work with soft depending?
20:08 sapier BlockMen: we haven't done a feature freeze for core for about half a year now how do you think we freeze daily?
20:09 VanessaE BlockMen: nope.
20:09 BlockMen sapier, im talking about minetest_game which is PERMANENTLY frozen
20:09 VanessaE BlockMen: that only ensures the mod is loaded first, but mapgen hooks are not re-ordered by that
20:09 BlockMen VanessaE, ic
20:10 sapier anything permanent is equivalent to dead ... well I'd not have a problem with declaring minetest_game dead and start a minetest_game2
20:10 sapier imho that'd be only a syntactical difference
20:11 VanessaE BlockMen: I need to ensure that snow biomes mod's mapgen hooks always run before mine, no matter what, no if's, and's or but's
20:11 sapier but I did only suggest to do it that way as a point to discuss about
20:11 BlockMen i was always against the death of minetest_game, but it was decided to be dead, so it should stay as that now
20:11 BlockMen if you want minetst_game2 use _next, it kinda is that
20:11 VanessaE sapier: can't we just agree that freezing minetest_game against any and all changes was a bad idea and open it up for further, light development and small improvements?
20:12 BlockMen no, lets it frozen for now. this opinion hpping around here sucks
20:14 VanessaE no.
20:14 VanessaE it was a stupid idea to freeze it.
20:14 sapier to be honest I don't really care how it's done but imho not having any evolving official game is a mistake ... if this is minetest_next or minetest_game or siegfriedotto_game isn't of any interest to me ;-)
20:15 BlockMen VanessaE, reread the locks WHY it was frozen
20:15 BlockMen *especially c55 thoughts on it
20:15 VanessaE BlockMen: it was frozen because of arguments and politics, nothing more
20:15 VanessaE I'm not gonna bullshit about it
20:15 sapier so blockmen if you get support for declaring minetest_next to be official I'd be fine with it too but you'll have to face same issues PIlzAdam had to
20:17 BlockMen minetest_game/an official game was dropped because there were too many opinion on what should be added an what not
20:17 BlockMen and that will not change if you call it _next,_game or _w/e
20:17 VanessaE likeI said, arguments and politics.
20:19 BlockMen why has everything be to discussed AFTER something has be done?
20:19 BlockMen when i tried to keep _game open nearly noone said anything
20:19 BlockMen and now everyone claims it has to be keept open
20:19 sapier BlockMen that's annoying I know but that's the usual way
20:19 VanessaE BlockMen: like I said twice now, let's just agree that freezing it was a stupid idea, un-freeze it, and resume developing on it
20:19 VanessaE slowly and gradually
20:19 VanessaE little things here and there.
20:19 BlockMen no, it has to stop
20:19 sapier It wont BlockMen
20:19 sapier no matter how I agree to you but it wont gonna happen
20:20 BlockMen sapier, you can help an let this down for now
20:20 BlockMen im not gonna do this discussion again
20:20 BlockMen im for keeping it frozen for now!
20:21 sapier and what's your suggestion how to continue?
20:21 sapier just saying no isn't an option
20:21 BlockMen as said now: including chosen games within next release
20:21 BlockMen https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=15&amp;t=9103
20:23 sapier Ok do you open a forum threat for games to apply for it? of course license of those mods has to be compatible to minetest so at least lgpl 2.1 compatible
20:23 sapier better wtfpl
20:23 sapier thread
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20:23 sapier but a little bit of threat wouldn't harm too ;-)
20:24 BlockMen sapier, umm..."Declare your game to be ready to be bundled with Minetest"
20:24 sapier I suggest defining some minimum set of requirements for a game too, e.g. own icon, own background, significantly different
20:24 sapier we don't need hundreds of games with only one different node
20:25 BlockMen "We will find a way to pick a couple of games to the next Minetest release (or the one after that; soon anyway) and get all possible Minetest packages to include the recommended bunch of games in a default install option."
20:25 BlockMen that means chosen games are included
20:25 BlockMen so you example game not ;)
20:25 BlockMen *+r
20:26 sapier no if we do so we need a ruleset for everyone to be transparent why a mod was added and why not
20:26 sapier if we don't do it that way it's gonna end up in endless discussions without any result
20:26 dsimon terminology question
20:26 dsimon a "game" in this sense is a collection of mods?
20:26 dsimon plus an icon and some other meta?
20:27 BlockMen ask celeron55 how he wants to chose the games
20:28 BlockMen games should IMO be more than just collections of existing mods
20:28 BlockMen else you could drop games at all and publish modspacks
20:28 BlockMen *-s
20:29 dsimon hm
20:29 dsimon so are mods generally copied between repos?
20:29 dsimon e.g. common and minetest_game largely overlap
20:29 sapier yes
20:30 dsimon where does primary development of a given mod happen?
20:30 sapier because most game authors slightly modify mods
20:30 dsimon ah, hm
20:31 dsimon apologies for just jumping into the middle of this, I feel like Donny from The Big Lebowski :-)
20:31 dsimon has there been any thought to organizing game-specific mod changes in a more specific structure?
20:31 dsimon e.g. a game wanting to change some small part of a mod would only include that change in its repo, rather than the entire mod with the change applied
20:32 sapier BlockMen: celeron already specified some points games have to comply with but imho he's been a little bit unprecise ... no matter the direction is almost same. I suggest dropping minimal as well as minetest_game from release builds and only add the chosen mods
20:33 BlockMen sapier, i agree with you suggestion
20:33 BlockMen *+r
20:33 BlockMen damn ...always missing a letter
20:34 BlockMen *wait, what?
20:34 BlockMen mods?
20:34 sapier but there's another point we have to discuss, if we don't have an official game, we basically declare mods to be deprecated
20:34 BlockMen you mean games
20:34 sapier yes I meant games
20:34 sapier noone can create a mod without an official game
20:35 BlockMen hmm...but minimal should be droped for sure
20:35 sapier minimal is required for development, you can't do anything with it
20:35 BlockMen you can take minetest_game instead of minimal
20:36 BlockMen noone develops mods based on minimal
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20:36 sapier then minetest_game has to be merged to minetest
20:36 BlockMen yes
20:36 sfan5 no
20:36 sfan5 use submodules
20:37 sapier define "submodules"
20:37 sfan5 http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
20:37 sapier do I have to do two git clones using them?
20:37 sfan5 no
20:37 sfan5 do git clone --recursve
20:37 sfan5 recursive*
20:37 dsimon or run "git submodule update --init" after a clone
20:37 sapier well then it's not an option
20:38 sfan5 why not?
20:38 BlockMen so its not included in zip download then?
20:38 BlockMen as submodule
20:38 sfan5 I'm not sure
20:38 sapier because I already know how often I'm gonna be annoyed because of having forgotten to do so
20:38 dsimon sapier, how often do you make new clones?
20:39 sapier anytime I try a clean build ... at least once a week
20:39 dsimon though, otoh, one also has to do a submodule update after pulling or changing branches, potentially...
20:39 dsimon if the references change
20:39 proller lol
20:39 proller sapier, git clean -ffdx
20:40 sapier proller I'm usually very happy to have to do all the work again I forgot to merge because it's been hidden by some insane gitignore rule
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20:40 proller loosing your changes is good
20:41 sapier well loosing your useless comments would be to but that's wont gonna happen ... by the way did you find your missing 8 buts yet? ;-P
20:41 sapier sorry bits ;-)
20:41 dsimon hm
20:41 proller what bits??
20:42 sapier well I'm not talking about the alcoholic drink quite common in other parts of germany
20:42 dsimon any thoughts on, in the future, using a package management system? ala luarocks or luadist (or some fork thereof)
20:43 sapier not yet dsimon but the idea sounds interesting
20:44 proller sapier, show log about bits
20:44 sapier but as we didn't even manage to persuade mod authors to use online moddb I have doubts modders will use that
20:44 dsimon sapier, perhaps if it directly referenced github
20:44 proller or forgot your fantasy
20:44 dsimon that would exclude people who insist on the zip-uploaded-to-forum distribution "method"
20:45 sapier proller if you're really interested what you did wrong look your self, I already fixed this bug. As you always find my bugs you're gonna find yours without my help too ;-)
20:45 dsimon but anything with a real repo would still be indexable
20:45 sapier dsimon:  exclusion is not an option
20:46 proller sapier, your fixes lost in -2000 +3000 lines of shitcode
20:46 dsimon sapier, hm, so perhaps even just allow raw URLs pointing at zips?
20:47 dsimon and more generally: even if the package manager doesn't support a mod, doesn't mean the mod can't be installed
20:47 SoniEx2 make minetest.sound_play take a pitch from 0.5 to 2.0
20:48 sapier proller look for a small one, if you're right that's not gonna be difficult
20:48 proller in menu?
20:49 sapier no c++ code
20:50 sapier but proller to be honest I don't really care about that bug, ppl doing work will make mistakes that's pretty normal
20:51 sapier and there's nothing like a silly bug because if it wasn't silly it wouldn't be a bug
20:51 SoniEx2 wait let me rephrase
20:51 SoniEx2 could you make minetest.sound_play take a pitch from 0.5 to 2.0?
20:52 SoniEx2 (0.5 to 2.0 because of OpenAL limitations)
20:52 sapier I can't I don't know anything about openal
20:52 SoniEx2 also what does minetest use for sound?
20:53 sapier openal
20:53 SoniEx2 ok good
20:53 SoniEx2 so can anyone do it?
20:54 proller sapier, you not change my code ina last 3 weeks
20:54 sapier well then it might have been 4 or 5 weeks ago
20:55 proller or 6 or 9 or..
20:55 proller proof or it your fantasy
20:55 sapier possible it's been a very very small fix ... and as usually it's been told to be my fault ;-P
20:57 sapier SoniEx2: code seems to be from celeron ... guess noone ever changed it
20:57 proller show commit
20:57 sapier no I wont waste that much time on a useless fix
20:59 proller -> fantasy.
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