Time Nick Message 00:53 VanessaE ok, menu FAIL 00:53 VanessaE 20:53:53: ERROR[main]: MAINMENU ERROR: /usr/local/share/minetest/builtin/mainmenu/init.lua:911: attempt to get length of field 'favorites' (a nil value) 00:55 VanessaE happens as soon as you turn on the public server list. once this happens, it's stuck there and you can't get the menu again until you switch off the public server list in your minetest.conf 01:00 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1297 01:03 SoniEx2 lack of hotswapping makes debugging and developing harder... java allows hotswapping... not sure how or if it can be done in lua/minetest... 01:09 ShadowNinja ~tell sapier ShadowNinja: can you check if those icons are non npot2? -- Those item icons are ones that are auto-generated by Minetest from nodes. 01:09 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: O.K. 01:17 ShadowNinja SoniEx2: Hot swapping? Do you mean reloading components? That can be done in Minetest, but it would be a big effort as things like chat commands need to be de-registered when the mod is unloaded. 03:14 stormchaser3000 hi 03:14 stormchaser3000 i got an error with the lua main menu 03:19 stormchaser3000 http://pastebin.com/RdJRU5yw 06:48 RealBadAngel ive updated #1278 06:49 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1278 -- Map irrlicht log level to minetest. Allow write irrlicht logs to debug file. by RealBadAngel 06:50 RealBadAngel now with proper mapping irrlicht log level to ours (its depending on irrlicht version) and added "quiet" command line switch to set errors only log level (LMT_ERROR) 06:59 VanessaE seems stormchaser just got bit by #1297 also 06:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1297 -- Public serverlist failure 08:38 ^Enki^ Hello, where I can download the latest -dev version? I've googled around but can't seem to find anything. 08:38 ^Enki^ *where can I 09:21 celeron55 ^Enki^: pretty much everything is linked here: http://minetest.net/download 09:30 ^Enki^ thank you celeron55 11:59 proller cpu: 76.3% 7:29.35 ConnectionSend lol 16:44 sapier I wonder why everyone rereports same bug once someone discovered it 16:45 sapier especially as that bug was in there for more then half a year without anyone noticing 17:24 sapier #1241 ... improved ui element initialization speed at cost of runtime speed ... any complains about this to ShadowNinja he demanded it and as he's ScriptAPI maintainer it's his responsibility. 17:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1241 -- Add formspec toolkit and refactor mainmenu to use it by sapier 17:26 sapier I don't have seen any proof it's really faster, but at least it seems reasonable to be faster ... benchmarks would tell but I don't have any interest in doing so. On the other hand I have proof it's slower at runtime 17:58 VanessaE [05-12 12:45] especially as that bug was in there for more then half a year without anyone noticing <---- because it hasn't actually bugged out until now? :) 17:58 VanessaE (if you mean that favorites glitch) 17:59 sapier try 4.9 it's crashing exactly same way ;-) 17:59 VanessaE must be some item within the list then 18:00 sapier nope 18:00 sapier it's no item selected at all 18:00 sapier once a item is selected everything is fine 18:01 VanessaE but, it's impossible to select an item. as soon as you hit "[ ] public sever list" --> crash. 18:02 VanessaE and once it crashes, it's dead. period. 18:02 sapier hmm that's new 18:02 VanessaE you HAVE to edit your minetest.conf to recover. 18:02 VanessaE next time read the bug report ;) 18:03 sapier ahh well that's another way to trigger it 18:03 sapier maybe I should've read full report and not only crash log 18:04 VanessaE there, updated the text to make it a little more clear. 18:05 sapier but it doesn't crash for me on turning on public server list too 18:05 xyz wtf 18:05 xyz why is "this" changed to "self" in license 18:06 sapier lol 18:06 VanessaE ? 18:06 sapier replace all ;-) 18:06 xyz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/files#diff-8fcf2d56e57d0439a1cad555809e7795R4 18:06 VanessaE hah 18:07 sapier one of those bug's why I initially refused to change 100 occurances of this to self 18:07 xyz great comment https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/files#diff-68e0d705185e82cd510213b769bd6d6dR208 18:07 VanessaE "self program is free software", "self program is distributed" 18:07 VanessaE hahah 18:07 xyz even better https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/files#diff-68e0d705185e82cd510213b769bd6d6dR219 18:07 VanessaE minetest is trying to become sentient. 18:07 Calinou a Lua programmer came by 18:08 xyz sapier: do you know Lua can do elseif? 18:08 sapier don't be that selfish ;-) 18:09 xyz what? 18:09 sapier no xyz I wont fix any single old coding style within whole mainmenu code 18:09 xyz ah alright 18:09 xyz the why the fuck do you ask for comments? 18:09 xyz just merge this shit 18:09 xyz because obviously it's shit 18:09 xyz and you won't fix it 18:09 xyz so just merge it 18:10 sapier I want comments for the things change not for those moved only 18:10 xyz not like anybody can stop you from doing it 18:10 xyz oh great 18:10 xyz just figured out you actually wiped out the whole discussion, not just my comment 18:10 sapier you didn't bother ShadowNinja to cleanup this as he moved it 3 days ago why do you expect me to fix it? 18:11 xyz well fuck you 18:11 proller time to rename minetest to sapiertest 18:11 kaeza wtf 18:11 VanessaE um 18:11 VanessaE xyz, wtf man? 18:12 sapier btw if it wasn't obvious "don't be that selfish ;-)" was a joke 18:13 sapier NOT related to your comment one line above but to the accidental this->self replacements 18:13 xyz with that attitude 18:13 xyz i don't really care 18:14 Calinou description field in GUI is too small for most descriptions (Client) 18:15 sapier well xyz I keep on trying to give a hand to you but the only thing you seem to do is keep on bashing. I wont give up to try to walk towards you anyway. 18:15 * jin_xi would have given up a long time ago 18:15 jin_xi seriously, this suck 18:15 jin_xi s 18:16 sapier Calinou: what description field are you talking about? in client tab? 18:18 xyz sapier: and only thing you're doing is ignoring all comments 18:18 xyz or deleting them 18:18 xyz and then you expect people to behave differently? 18:18 xyz or saying "i don't care about this anyway" 18:18 xyz shit like this 18:18 xyz like that no xyz I wont fix any single old coding style within whole mainmenu code 18:18 sapier wait did I say anything about the self this thing going to be ignored? 18:19 xyz "i coded some shit in the past but now that it's in the master i don't care anymore" 18:19 xyz "so i won't fix this shit even if it's shit" 18:20 sapier the only thing is I wont gonna keep on fixing style for styl issue for 4 weeks, you did review exactly the code you have issues now days ago, by that time it's been fine for you 18:20 Calinou sapier, the server description one 18:20 Calinou it's always cut out :'( 18:20 Calinou it simply needs more space 18:20 Calinou (I'm using master Git) 18:20 xyz sapier: yes and by "style" you mean everything 18:20 xyz like, the code is unreadable mess? well that's style issue, ignored 18:20 sapier Calinou: where to get more space? for what I remember gui just isn't bigger? 18:21 Calinou on the right and on the bottom 18:21 Calinou there's plenty of space 18:21 Calinou (write description below the whole GUI?) 18:22 sapier I've been forced to rebuild the original menu pixel identical on rewriting it in lua ;-) 18:24 neolith2099 Hi folks. as I understood from kaeza emitting light from entities is currently not possible. Has anyone thought about implementing this already? if so, what needs to be considered should one decide to implement it? :) 18:25 sapier thought, different people, done ... no because entities do move and light is somewhat static 18:26 xyz fine now just ignore me 18:26 sapier xyz what am I supposed to answer to a "everything is shit" comment? 18:26 xyz sapier: i'm saying people are trying to improve your code, in different ways 18:26 xyz i.e. by commenting on style issues 18:26 xyz which you just ignore 18:26 xyz that's not cool 18:27 sapier well that's why I did even do the metatable stuff which imho is absolutely crap 18:27 xyz for you it probably doesn't matter since you can understand your code, but try now to find anyone here who understands how your code works and what it does 18:28 sapier or replace this by self 18:28 sapier or ... or ... or 18:28 xyz as i said, you think it doesn't matter 18:29 xyz but in fact it does, every little change can make code more readable 18:29 sapier if you did compare my initial version to the finally merged one you'd notice I DO honor comments 18:29 xyz oh well i guess since nobody else seems to care it doesn't matter that much 18:29 xyz sapier: except ones that you deleted, right 18:30 sapier almost noone does adapt as much as I do ... maybe that's why everyone believes "just tell sapier to do different he's gonna do it" 18:30 kaeza nice way to welcome a new user... 18:30 xyz nobody here seems to actually care 18:32 neolith2099 :) 18:32 xyz i mean to find this/self issue only a quick look at the code is required 18:32 xyz thus we can conclude nobody has looked at it 18:32 sapier well neolith2099 guess you've gotten a good impression about how rough conversations usually get ;-) 18:33 sapier xyz maybe most ppl don't read the comments? 18:33 neolith2099 sapier: this is hardly rough :p I fight an uphill battle with development team members daily. 18:34 neolith2099 but as long as the output is constructive.. then it's ok. 18:34 xyz sapier: that's because comments are awful 18:34 sapier xyz maybe someone should check for style issues in other pull requests half as pedantic everyone looks at my commits ;-) 18:35 Calinou neolith2099, there were two patches that added this: neither of them made them in 18:35 sapier then comments like that wouldn't be in there 18:35 Calinou to not put people who have to disable them because of performance reasons on the side of the road 18:36 neolith2099 Calinou: ok, what if it was implemented as a setting that can be toggled? 18:36 xyz sapier: you ignore these comments anyway 18:36 Calinou it was added as such 18:36 sapier neolith2099: better, but it's lately become a bad habit to add a setting for everything 18:36 Calinou read what I say again :) 18:36 Calinou the more settings you have, the better, as long as they make sense 18:37 Calinou better have too many than not enough 18:37 Calinou to not force people to edit source code 18:37 neolith2099 Calinou: I agree 18:37 Calinou (had to edit source to remove damage flash, change infotext position and increase third person distance) 18:37 sapier Calinou: having 10000 settings everyone has to modify to match his system isn't usefull at all too 18:37 Calinou it may be a bit harder for Windows user 18:37 Calinou sapier, if you organize them well, it's fine 18:38 Calinou the only settings that don't deserve being settings is the ones that really have no use, or the old/cruft ones 18:38 neolith2099 Calinou: How big was the performance hit with this patch applied? 18:38 Calinou eg. new style water, quicktune… 18:38 Calinou neolith2099, no idea, I haven't tried 18:38 neolith2099 you know where I can get it? 18:38 sapier noone will ever customize 10000 settings, and instead of changing 3rd person view for you only why not find a better default and make everyone profit from it? 18:38 VanessaE xyz: if I were asking for commentary on my code, I would surely be 100x more interested in how the code functions or if it could be made to function better, than what its style looks like or what is written among the comments. 18:39 Calinou because we're not GNOME 3 18:39 neolith2099 sapier: I see your point, but that only becomes a problem when you actually have 10000 settings :p 18:39 Calinou third person distance setting is basic! 18:39 Calinou it's not something very sophisticated 18:39 xyz VanessaE: it's hard to comment on code that's not possible to understand 18:39 xyz VanessaE: quite naturally that people are commenting on style issues in that case 18:40 sapier neolith2099: we add about 2-3 settings per month lately ... to be honest some of them are added by me too ... ok good we're gonna have some years to reach 10000 18:40 Calinou there's quite some time until we even reach 500! relax! 18:40 Calinou please avoid hyperboles like that one; they dramatize everything 18:40 neolith2099 xyz: well in all honesty, I dont think it matters too much how everyone codes as long as they all agree to code the same way. 18:40 Calinou Lua mods are definitely not all coded in the same way ;) 18:40 xyz neolith2099: haha, sure you must be new here 18:41 VanessaE xyz: I can appreciate that, but consider this: when you look at the code and its style hinders your ability to read the code, is it really hindering your capability to understand that code, or is it just bothering you because the style does not fit the rest of the code? 18:41 sapier still adding a setting for everything and telling user "you can customize it" instead of finding a sane default seems wrong to me 18:41 neolith2099 xyz: in essence, a one developer should look at a piece of code 6 months later and not know if the wrote it or not, simply because the style is the same. 18:41 xyz neolith2099: there's no coding guidelines in that project 18:41 xyz everybody writes as they want 18:42 VanessaE xyz: in other words, the door is painted with red and green stripes, but you can still turn the door knob. but those red and green stripes made you stop for a second and look at them. Did those colors hinder your ability to operate the door, or are they just irritating? 18:42 xyz meaning it depends on the weather today 18:42 sapier xyz you're wrong, there are coding guidelines but apparently only my code is checked against them ;-) 18:42 xyz sapier: i wonder why? 18:42 xyz VanessaE: thanks for your analogy but have you tried reading the code in question? 18:43 sapier I know why xyz ... but I wont tell because you'll deny it anyway 18:43 proller sapier, your overall code quality is WTF 18:43 VanessaE xyz: I have tried reading some of it, but as I don't understand the language too well as it is, and I have always had trouble understanding other peoples' code, it would be of little benefit for me to try. 18:43 neolith2099 xyz: yes, but basic code standards should be put in place and a system of checks and balances need to be put in place before solid commits are made. 18:43 xyz neolith2099: i know, right, that's not me that you need to convince 18:44 neolith2099 proller: WTF = Way To Freaky? 18:44 Calinou neolith2099: there's no coding guidelines in that project 18:44 proller WHAT THE FUCK 18:44 Calinou for the engine, there are! 18:44 neolith2099 :p 18:44 sapier xyz I suggested to fix whole code style ages ago ... but everyone refused 18:44 Calinou http://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines 18:44 VanessaE xyz: be that as it may, you didn't answer either question. did the coding style truly interfere with your ability to read the code or does it just irritate you enough not to want to read it? 18:44 Calinou xyz, you sound like you're in a bad mood anyway 18:45 xyz VanessaE: i don't get the difference here 18:45 neolith2099 Calinou: I like that link 18:45 neolith2099 "Do not use "or", use "||". Code that uses "or" instead of "||" will face immediate rejection." 18:46 neolith2099 so what about && ? 18:46 jin_xi go fuck yourself 18:46 VanessaE xyz: the difference being, you can see the code, and understand what you're reading, even if the style sucks. but if the style sucks enough, you're not gonna read it at all because the style itself is irritating in its own right 18:46 neolith2099 lol 18:46 jin_xi :) 18:46 xyz VanessaE: code style is not just about indentation or naming things "this" instead of "self" 18:46 VanessaE like not watching your favorite movie because the medium it's being shown in irritates the shit out of you (think, television with too many commercials vs. watching it in a nice high-end home theater) 18:46 Calinou keep the insults away, please 18:46 VanessaE xyz: I know that. 18:47 Calinou we need AdBlock for TV, VanessaE :D 18:47 VanessaE Calinou: I have the ultimate adblock for TV: I have no TV :P 18:47 neolith2099 My TV is a 46" monitor :) 18:49 xyz VanessaE: then what's the question about? code style makes it harder to understand the code, yes that irritates me 18:49 VanessaE xyz: I rejected a big patch to pipeworks a long while back for these same reasons -- because of the code style. But I'm talking about huge, long lines, everything crammed into as few lines as possible, no spaces, etc etc. the kind of stuff we all did in BASIC 30 years ago. in that case, the style both fucked up the entire code to where I couldn't even compare his changes against my original code, and made it impossible for me to read. 18:50 xyz VanessaE: now you're missing the point, i just said that code style is not just "artistic" style 18:50 sapier xyz is talking about the way of writing code, which is different for different coders and depends on what background different programmers have 18:50 xyz exactly 18:51 VanessaE xyz, he claimed that his code style in that rejected patch is to allow more code on the screen at once. purely functional in his eyes. 18:51 sapier obviously he and proller have a common base while my style is fundamentally different 18:51 sapier and xyz expects everyone to follow his view of world 18:51 xyz sapier: i don't 18:51 proller your style allows to crush every server with two packets 18:51 sapier as puting and obama expect everyone to see world with their eyes 18:51 xyz i expect people to write understandable code 18:51 xyz i.e. put comments sometimes 18:52 xyz make it easier for other people to work with 18:52 neolith2099 ok.. what piece of code are you guys actually referring too? 18:52 neolith2099 I'm curious :p 18:52 sapier well xyz there are multiple explanations why someone doesn't understand code 18:52 * jin_xi wants to see example too 18:52 VanessaE ok now we're getting into semantics. you're using "code style" to refer to different concepts. 18:52 proller neolith2099, all sapiers code 18:52 jin_xi ^ no not this 18:52 sapier neolith2099: there's no special line because this is aboit personal difference between proller/xyz and me 18:52 jin_xi specific 18:53 neolith2099 sample? 18:53 jin_xi i mean is the wtf in the what or the how or both? 18:53 xyz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/files 18:53 sapier if it was coding style there'd be a chance to settle it 18:56 neolith2099 ok, got a sample of xyz's code? 18:56 xyz i think shadow is the one who commens on "artistic" coding style 18:56 neolith2099 so I can identify differences. :) 18:57 neolith2099 and like jin_xi said, is the formatting the issue or the implementation itself? 18:58 proller sapier's code: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/connection.cpp 18:59 xyz duh, i told multiple times; both are issues but i'm getting more mad about implementation 18:59 sapier until Channel::Channel() : it's almost untouched original code proller 19:06 sapier neolith2099: I can't tell you about code from xyz and proller because they did take the easy way and don't discuss about their changes any longer 19:06 xyz neolith2099: i honestly don't think i have any recent lua code 19:06 sapier meaning they did fork and just push whatever thy write 19:07 xyz neolith2099: but you can friend me at https://github.com/xyzz 19:07 xyz i don't understand how's that related to the discussion anyway 19:07 xyz sapier: we also push what other people write! 19:08 sapier how's that related to honoring comments to YOUR code? 19:09 xyz sapier: i don't get why you all has suddenly decided to discuss me 19:09 proller changing sapier style to proller style : https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/commit/6d89eaa06c08667d8011619f2bf5a31281821bf8#diff-ec9c246444a86a039da70669e6740c89 19:09 sapier that's not sapier style that's write something someone else promised to replace by a generic parser ... well the promise is there for about a year now 19:10 sapier because that one force added json without adding the required features 19:11 sapier if I remember correct you've been involved in pushing the json addon proller 19:13 xyz oh you mean that person whose pull requests were ignored for months? 19:13 xyz hmm, yes, I wonder why he doesn't contribute much anymore 19:14 sapier I don't actually remember who did the json things 19:14 sapier I only remember I've been annoyed about having to add that crapy code and wasn't willing to spend another 2-3 days to implement the generic parser someone else promised 19:16 xyz yeah i bet proller spent his precious 2 days writing this code in that commit 19:16 xyz just look at it, it's huge 19:17 sapier most likely not but I never claimed to know about the json code moreover I expressed to not have any interest in it and this is task of the one adding it. 19:18 sapier and if proller did create a pull for this I'd have merged it quite quick .. but usually proller did create pulls containing at least 5 different unrelated things 19:19 sapier and don't tell me "you can merge it" ... I can't because you made freeminer license incompatible 19:20 sapier we all know why you did it 19:20 neolith2099 I dont. 19:20 sapier well isn't it quite obvious it's about beeing able to merge fixed from minetest while stopping us from mergeing their fixes 19:21 neolith2099 Freeminer: "Unlike Minetest it aims to make the game fun while trading off some bits of perfectionism." 19:21 neolith2099 ^ WTF does that mean? 19:21 neolith2099 :p 19:22 xyz sapier: you can ask the author of code 19:22 xyz sapier: but of course you won't, you will whine instead "waaah freeminer stealing code from us :(((((" 19:22 xyz that's the second time i'm telling you that 19:22 sapier you're free to grant a permission to merge back your fixes 19:23 sapier as we do for our fixes 19:23 xyz yes so what fixes do you need? 19:23 sapier for example the json patch 19:24 xyz it'd be stupid if i said "you can just merge everything" since that'd defeat the purpose of switching to gpl (these android clones, and it's not a library anyway) 19:24 xyz sapier: that's proller's code, ask him 19:24 proller some devs was against storing favorites to json 19:24 sapier of course I'm gonna ask for each single line any single author 19:24 xyz sapier: yes or don't whine 19:24 sapier and I'm still against doing it but 19:25 xyz that you can't merge things 19:25 sapier obviously it's been merged anyway 19:26 sapier xyz what are you doing here? you don't want your work to be used in android ports why do you discuss here as everything you do here can be used there? 19:28 xyz kk, got it 19:28 VanessaE wtf?? 19:28 sapier obviously you got it wrong, I wanted to know what you're doing here, not you running away as soon as you have to put your pants down 19:29 sapier guess he's gonna read the log ... well maybe I shoud've used ShadowBot 19:39 kahrl funny how the chilly Russia-Germany relations have reached this chat room 19:39 kahrl should we discuss about sanctions? or should we be hugging instead? 19:39 sapier kahrl you're wrong we started this little fight way before ;-) 19:39 kahrl true ;) 19:39 VanessaE Global thermonuclear war 19:40 sapier I'd prefere to settle those differences but I haven't found a way to do by now 19:40 sapier I'm open for suggestions as I'm most likely biased 19:41 kahrl I don't know, sadly 19:42 VanessaE I have nothing either except jokes :-/ 19:43 PilzAdam VanessaE, tell them! 19:45 VanessaE I just did. 19:49 neolith2099 I found some freeminer setting "disable_wieldlight".. is this available in minetest? 19:50 sapier I don't think so, and as I told due to license incompatibility we can't merge pulls done to freeminer 19:51 sapier at least unless the original author explicitly grants permission 19:51 neolith2099 well I just pulled the minetest src tree and grep'd it for it.. nada! 19:51 neolith2099 just implement it a little differently :p 19:51 VanessaE wieldlights have issues in that they must light up parts of the map, which is laggy 19:52 neolith2099 what if it's just done on the client side? 19:52 VanessaE the only way to do it right is to make all clients light up their local maps instead, which wouldn't be as much so 19:52 neolith2099 then you can do thing's like make night vision googles 19:52 jin_xi https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/816 here is the pullrequest to mt 19:53 VanessaE (the mesh gen would still have to deal with the light, but it's MUCH faster than doing it at the server and having to send the modified mapblock to all clients) 19:53 sapier neolith2099: by now lighting is done on server only 19:53 neolith2099 sapier: you gotta be kidding right? 19:53 VanessaE there's also the issue of whether the server should respond to the light cast by the player's torch. for example, should your torch trigger a mesecons light sensor "solar" panel? 19:53 neolith2099 not means of interfacing with the clients to manipulate them? 19:54 kahrl just implement hardware lighting already, then wield lights will be trivial :) 19:54 VanessaE kahrl: agreed 100% but what about the above? 19:54 sapier no I'm not kidding neolith2099 amount of light per node is really calculated by server 19:55 sapier And I'm with kahrl, as far as I know rba is working on it but it's not yet ready to be merged 19:55 neolith2099 ok and not means of adjusting what the client's see 19:55 sapier that's not my opinion but rba's own estimation 19:56 VanessaE wait, what if the server calculates the light per node, but just doesn't bother to *show* it to clients that are capable of hardware lighting? 19:56 VanessaE that would solve everything wouldn't it? 19:56 sapier neolith2099: well if you adjust it you'd have to revert it back to original after user passed it, thus adding a second data storage for each node ... at least I'd prefere to have that time spent for real hardware lighting instead of a dirty hack 19:57 kahrl VanessaE: I think that's the plan 19:57 VanessaE ok good 19:57 neolith2099 :) 19:57 neolith2099 yay! 19:57 kahrl of course wieldlights won't be seen by the server unless there's some special handling for it 19:57 VanessaE and for old clients, they get the modified mapblock with the new lighting data like its' done now 19:57 VanessaE kahrl: that's the only question 19:58 VanessaE like I said above, should your wielded tourch be able to trigger, say, a mesecons solar panel? 19:58 VanessaE torch* 19:58 neolith2099 kahrl: that's fine by me :) 19:58 neolith2099 well your torch gives off light.. so, I guess 19:58 sapier that's a interesting question VanessaE to handle this we'll have to keep light calculation in server even after we moved to hardware lighting 19:59 neolith2099 but then again.. who heard of a torch that's lasts forever :p 19:59 sapier or find a different way to do 19:59 VanessaE I was thinking, maybe just the few nodes around you get a static value, rather than trying to calculate shadows and light spread from the wield 20:00 VanessaE that would surely be a lot less math than the existing code anyway 20:00 VanessaE but the bottleneck is still sending the changed blocks to old clients 20:01 neolith2099 might i suggest a setting that enables for this compatability for older clients :) 20:01 neolith2099 that way, when I fire up a server I be sure start an "old school" and "new school" version 20:02 sapier well neolith2099 there's still noone to implement it by now 20:02 neolith2099 and the new school doesn't have the "old clients" communication overhead 20:03 kahrl I'd think hardware lighting is a big enough change that we could call that 0.5.0, drop network compatibility and be done with it 20:03 neolith2099 kahrl: +1 20:03 sapier I agree with we can, but do we have to? 20:04 neolith2099 sooo.. whose working on it then? 20:04 neolith2099 for real this time :) 20:04 sapier I'd suggest adding hw lighting in some version before 0.5 get it stable and then switch once it's polished 20:04 sapier and on this switch we remove old lighting 20:05 kahrl sapier: I guess that depends on what RBA wants to do 20:06 kahrl if he makes it compatible then that's good, if not then not too tragic 20:06 neolith2099 kahrl: will this also allow for entity bound lighting? 20:07 neolith2099 not just wield lighting 20:07 kahrl neolith2099: I think so 20:07 neolith2099 awesome! 20:07 kahrl maybe not immediately, but it will be easy to add 20:07 sapier I don't think it's gonna enable it without additional work too 20:08 neolith2099 how long has RBA been working on it? 20:08 sapier quite some time it's not a small change 20:09 sapier I'd not be surprised if we'd not get the first version until christmas 20:15 neolith2099 sapier: either way, I'm glad it's on the roadmap :) 20:59 celeron55 i sure hope things are going right because i don't want to read that wall of text 21:00 sapier basically same as usual, xyz doing global critics to all of my code, me trying to find out what he really wants 21:01 sapier oh well and discussion about wield light 21:10 neolith2099 not just wield light, but lighting support for entities too :) 21:10 sapier true I just wanted to mention the source topics 21:11 neolith2099 I look forward to what RBA produces :) 21:15 neolith2099 would also be cool if nodes could be "overlay'd" with nodes 21:16 neolith2099 then animated with the properties of that nodes.. i.e. algae, lilypads, etc. animating with the water waves. 21:17 sapier neolith2099: for what I know you can do this 21:17 sapier well somehow 21:18 sapier you'd have to define a special water node having upper texture beeing the lilypads 21:18 sapier maybe it'd even work with current variant if they'd be in correct group 21:18 neolith2099 well right now you can define a node with an additional blended texture 21:19 neolith2099 like "sandy.png^overlay_green.png" in lua 21:20 neolith2099 if there was a way to adjust this for a particular water node interactively.. that just might work :p 21:21 neolith2099 swaping a regualt water source node with a water source node with lilypad, for example 21:21 neolith2099 but then the water needs to be transparent and the lilypad not. 21:22 sapier I'd expect it to work 21:22 neolith2099 and then there is the question of digging the lily pad water node. 21:22 sapier but I haven't tried yet 21:23 sapier what question? 21:23 neolith2099 well it would be funny to beable to dig a water node without a bucket 21:23 sapier did you try it by now? ;) 21:24 neolith2099 so I guess you could mark it as diggable and then once it's dug.. give the player the lilypad and then replace it with the water node 21:24 neolith2099 i'm just thinking out loud :p 21:24 neolith2099 I'll put a POC together tomorrow 21:24 sapier that'd been my first idea too but it doesn't have to be the best way to do it. If you're interested in doing things like that I suggest trying ;-) 21:25 neolith2099 well.. I've seen a lily pad algae mod out there... think it's VanessaE's 21:25 neolith2099 part of plant_lib or something 21:27 neolith2099 at any rate, I'll tinker with it tomorrow... plenty to do while waiting for hardware lighting support :) 21:31 VanessaE neolith2099: Plantlife modpack, "flowers_plus" I think I called it. 21:31 VanessaE *checks* yep. 21:35 neolith2099 so what's the reason you did it the way you did and not how I am suggesting? *maybe you had a special reason* 21:35 sapier I guess it's because waving shaders didn't exist by the time the mod was created 21:37 VanessaE yeah 21:37 VanessaE those need...something 21:37 VanessaE I'm open to suggestions :P 21:38 neolith2099 I'll put my poc together first to see if this is eve reasonable. 21:38 VanessaE maybe a custom shader that can be applied to those objects? 21:38 neolith2099 I wonder about the water transparency settings if I go the node swaping route 21:39 neolith2099 last thing I want is a transparent lilypad :p 21:39 VanessaE (well, to be applied to an arbitrary "flat object" anyway) 21:40 neolith2099 oh and one more thing... what about animating things like chests opening, etc? 21:40 neolith2099 I assume that would require making the chest into a model and animating it accordingly when activated. 21:41 VanessaE probably so 21:41 VanessaE should be doable 21:41 neolith2099 hhhmmmm..... another thing I'll poc later on. 21:41 neolith2099 does something like that add significant performance hit? 21:42 neolith2099 I suppose it wouldn't have more bog-down than a mob. 21:43 VanessaE I wouldn't expect a performance hit, but lag would be a problem 21:43 VanessaE this is something that needs to be done client-side 21:43 neolith2099 and it's not like the server needs to do more work.. *correct me if im wrong * 21:43 neolith2099 that's how I would do it. 21:43 neolith2099 it's not like you'd want everyone to see your chest is open 21:44 neolith2099 then I would have to make it that while it's open.. someone else could steal your stuff too :p 21:44 neolith2099 which would add a whole new value to locked doors :p 21:45 neolith2099 anyway... lily pads first... then i'll doodle with animated chests 21:46 neolith2099 I'm not much of a blender user.. I use MAX.. what plugin is best suited to generating the *.x file? 21:46 VanessaE don't use .x 21:46 neolith2099 I use 3ds 2014 21:46 sapier I suggest creating a b3d file 21:46 VanessaE use .b3d 21:46 VanessaE ninja'd :) 21:47 sapier it's a binary format thus beeing way more small then .x (especially if you use animations) 21:47 sapier and irrlicht support for it is as good as .x 21:47 neolith2099 gotcha. thnx 21:49 neolith2099 oh.. another thing... lol 21:49 neolith2099 how would that work with texture packs? 21:49 neolith2099 sry.. it's nighttime here and my mind goes crazy with ideas at night. 21:50 sapier I suggest doing it step by step ;-) 21:50 neolith2099 for sure... ok.. calling it a night 21:51 neolith2099 adios, my new amigos! 21:56 VanessaE *reaches for the keyboard to respond to the texture packs question* 21:57 VanessaE *gets shut down by neolith having already signed off* 21:57 VanessaE damn it.