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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-05-12

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Time Nick Message
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00:53 VanessaE ok, menu FAIL
00:53 VanessaE 20:53:53: ERROR[main]: MAINMENU ERROR: /usr/local/share/minetest/bu​iltin/mainmenu/init.lua:911: attempt to get length of field 'favorites' (a nil value)
00:55 VanessaE happens as soon as you turn on the public server list.  once this happens, it's stuck there and you can't get the menu again until you switch off the public server list in your minetest.conf
01:00 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1297
01:03 SoniEx2 lack of hotswapping makes debugging and developing harder... java allows hotswapping... not sure how or if it can be done in lua/minetest...
01:09 ShadowNinja ~tell sapier <sapier> ShadowNinja: can you check if those icons are non npot2? -- Those item icons are ones that are auto-generated by Minetest from nodes.
01:09 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: O.K.
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01:17 ShadowNinja SoniEx2: Hot swapping?  Do you mean reloading components?  That can be done in Minetest, but it would be a big effort as things like chat commands need to be de-registered when the mod is unloaded.
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02:09 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
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03:14 stormchaser3000 hi
03:14 stormchaser3000 i got an error with the lua main menu
03:19 stormchaser3000 http://pastebin.com/RdJRU5yw
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06:48 RealBadAngel ive updated #1278
06:49 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1278 -- Map irrlicht log level to minetest. Allow write irrlicht logs to debug file. by RealBadAngel
06:50 RealBadAngel now with proper mapping irrlicht log level to ours (its depending on irrlicht version) and added "quiet" command line switch to set errors only log level (LMT_ERROR)
06:59 VanessaE seems stormchaser just got bit by #1297 also
06:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1297 -- Public serverlist failure
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08:38 ^Enki^ Hello, where I can download the latest -dev version? I've googled around but can't seem to find anything.
08:38 ^Enki^ *where can I
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09:21 celeron55 ^Enki^: pretty much everything is linked here: http://minetest.net/download
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09:30 ^Enki^ thank you celeron55
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11:59 proller cpu: 76.3%      7:29.35 ConnectionSend   lol
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16:44 sapier I wonder why everyone rereports same bug once someone discovered it
16:45 sapier especially as that bug was in there for more then half a year without anyone noticing
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17:24 sapier #1241 ... improved ui element initialization speed at cost of runtime speed ... any complains about this to ShadowNinja he demanded it and as he's ScriptAPI maintainer it's his responsibility.
17:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1241 -- Add formspec toolkit and refactor mainmenu to use it by sapier
17:26 sapier I don't have seen any proof it's really faster, but at least it seems reasonable to be faster ... benchmarks would tell but I don't have any interest in doing so. On the other hand I have proof it's slower at runtime
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17:58 VanessaE [05-12 12:45] <sapier> especially as that bug was in there for more then half a year without anyone noticing    <---- because it hasn't actually bugged out until now? :)
17:58 VanessaE (if you mean that favorites glitch)
17:59 sapier try 4.9 it's crashing exactly same way ;-)
17:59 VanessaE must be some item within the list then
18:00 sapier nope
18:00 sapier it's no item selected at all
18:00 sapier once a item is selected everything is fine
18:01 VanessaE but, it's impossible to select an item.  as soon as you hit "[ ] public sever list"  --> crash.
18:02 VanessaE and once it crashes, it's dead.  period.
18:02 sapier hmm that's new
18:02 VanessaE you HAVE to edit your minetest.conf to recover.
18:02 VanessaE next time read the bug report ;)
18:03 sapier ahh well that's another way to trigger it
18:03 sapier maybe I should've read full report and not only crash log
18:04 VanessaE there, updated the text to make it a little more clear.
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18:05 sapier but it doesn't crash for me on turning on public server list too
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18:05 xyz wtf
18:05 xyz why is "this" changed to "self" in license
18:06 sapier lol
18:06 VanessaE ?
18:06 sapier replace all ;-)
18:06 xyz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241​/files#diff-8fcf2d56e57d0439a1cad555809e7795R4
18:06 VanessaE hah
18:07 sapier one of those bug's why I initially refused to change 100 occurances of this to self
18:07 xyz great comment https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/​files#diff-68e0d705185e82cd510213b769bd6d6dR208
18:07 VanessaE "self program is free software", "self program is distributed"
18:07 VanessaE hahah
18:07 xyz even better https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1241/​files#diff-68e0d705185e82cd510213b769bd6d6dR219
18:07 VanessaE minetest is trying to become sentient.
18:07 Calinou a Lua programmer came by
18:08 xyz sapier: do you know Lua can do elseif?
18:08 sapier don't be that selfish ;-)
18:09 xyz what?
18:09 sapier no xyz I wont fix any single old coding style within whole mainmenu code
18:09 xyz ah alright
18:09 xyz the why the fuck do you ask for comments?
18:09 xyz just merge this shit
18:09 xyz because obviously it's shit
18:09 xyz and you won't fix it
18:09 xyz so just merge it
18:10 sapier I want comments for the things change not for those moved only
18:10 xyz not like anybody can stop you from doing it
18:10 xyz oh great
18:10 xyz just figured out you actually wiped out the whole discussion, not just my comment
18:10 sapier you didn't bother ShadowNinja to cleanup this as he moved it 3 days ago why do you expect me to fix it?
18:11 xyz well fuck you
18:11 proller time to rename minetest to sapiertest
18:11 kaeza wtf
18:11 VanessaE um
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18:11 VanessaE xyz, wtf man?
18:12 sapier btw if it wasn't obvious "don't be that selfish ;-)" was a joke
18:13 sapier NOT related to your comment one line above but to the accidental this->self replacements
18:13 xyz with that attitude
18:13 xyz i don't really care
18:14 Calinou description field in GUI is too small for most descriptions (Client)
18:15 sapier well xyz I keep on trying to give a hand to you but the only thing you seem to do is keep on bashing. I wont give up to try to walk towards you anyway.
18:15 * jin_xi would have given up a long time ago
18:15 jin_xi seriously, this suck
18:15 jin_xi s
18:16 sapier Calinou: what description field are you talking about? in client tab?
18:18 xyz sapier: and only thing you're doing is ignoring all comments
18:18 xyz or deleting them
18:18 xyz and then you expect people to behave differently?
18:18 xyz or saying "i don't care about this anyway"
18:18 xyz shit like this
18:18 xyz like that <sapier> no xyz I wont fix any single old coding style within whole mainmenu code
18:18 sapier wait did I say anything about the self this thing going to be ignored?
18:19 xyz "i coded some shit in the past but now that it's in the master i don't care anymore"
18:19 xyz "so i won't fix this shit even if it's shit"
18:20 sapier the only thing is I wont gonna keep on fixing style for styl issue for 4 weeks, you did review exactly the code you have issues now days ago, by that time it's been fine for you
18:20 Calinou sapier, the server description one
18:20 Calinou it's always cut out :'(
18:20 Calinou it simply needs more space
18:20 Calinou (I'm using master Git)
18:20 xyz sapier: yes and by "style" you mean everything
18:20 xyz like, the code is unreadable mess? well that's style issue, ignored
18:20 sapier Calinou: where to get more space? for what I remember gui just isn't bigger?
18:21 Calinou on the right and on the bottom
18:21 Calinou there's plenty of space
18:21 Calinou (write description below the whole GUI?)
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18:22 sapier I've been forced to rebuild the original menu pixel identical on rewriting it in lua ;-)
18:24 neolith2099 Hi folks. as I understood from kaeza emitting light from entities is currently not possible. Has anyone thought about implementing this already? if so, what needs to be considered should one decide to implement it? :)
18:25 sapier thought, different people, done ... no because entities do move and light is somewhat static
18:26 xyz fine now just ignore me
18:26 sapier xyz what am I supposed to answer to a "everything is shit" comment?
18:26 xyz sapier: i'm saying people are trying to improve your code, in different ways
18:26 xyz i.e. by commenting on style issues
18:26 xyz which you just ignore
18:26 xyz that's not cool
18:27 sapier well that's why I did even do the metatable stuff which imho is absolutely crap
18:27 xyz for you it probably doesn't matter since you can understand your code, but try now to find anyone here who understands how your code works and what it does
18:28 sapier or replace this by self
18:28 sapier or ... or ... or
18:28 xyz as i said, you think it doesn't matter
18:29 xyz but in fact it does, every little change can make code more readable
18:29 sapier if you did compare my initial version to the finally merged one you'd notice I DO honor comments
18:29 xyz oh well i guess since nobody else seems to care it doesn't matter that much
18:29 xyz sapier: except ones that you deleted, right
18:30 sapier almost noone does adapt as much as I do ... maybe that's why everyone believes "just tell sapier to do different he's gonna do it"
18:30 kaeza nice way to welcome a new user...
18:30 xyz nobody here seems to actually care
18:32 neolith2099 :)
18:32 xyz i mean to find this/self issue only a quick look at the code is required
18:32 xyz thus we can conclude nobody has looked at it
18:32 sapier well neolith2099 guess you've gotten a good impression about how rough conversations usually get ;-)
18:33 sapier xyz maybe most ppl don't read the comments?
18:33 neolith2099 sapier: this is hardly rough :p I fight an uphill battle with development team members daily.
18:34 neolith2099 but as long as the output is constructive.. then it's ok.
18:34 xyz sapier: that's because comments are awful
18:34 sapier xyz maybe someone should check for style issues in other pull requests half as pedantic everyone looks at my commits ;-)
18:35 Calinou neolith2099, there were two patches that added this: neither of them made them in
18:35 sapier then comments like that wouldn't be in there
18:35 Calinou to not put people who have to disable them because of performance reasons on the side of the road
18:36 neolith2099 Calinou: ok, what if it was implemented as a setting that can be toggled?
18:36 xyz sapier: you ignore these comments anyway
18:36 Calinou it was added as such
18:36 sapier neolith2099: better, but it's lately become a bad habit to add a setting for everything
18:36 Calinou read what I say again :)
18:36 Calinou the more settings you have, the better, as long as they make sense
18:37 Calinou better have too many than not enough
18:37 Calinou to not force people to edit source code
18:37 neolith2099 Calinou: I agree
18:37 Calinou (had to edit source to remove damage flash, change infotext position and increase third person distance)
18:37 sapier Calinou: having 10000 settings everyone has to modify to match his system isn't usefull at all too
18:37 Calinou it may be a bit harder for Windows user
18:37 Calinou sapier, if you organize them well, it's fine
18:38 Calinou the only settings that don't deserve being settings is the ones that really have no use, or the old/cruft ones
18:38 neolith2099 Calinou: How big was the performance hit with this patch applied?
18:38 Calinou eg. new style water, quicktune…
18:38 Calinou neolith2099, no idea, I haven't tried
18:38 neolith2099 you know where I can get it?
18:38 sapier noone will ever customize 10000 settings, and instead of changing 3rd person view for you only why not find a better default and make everyone profit from it?
18:38 VanessaE xyz: if I were asking for commentary on my code, I would surely be 100x more interested in how the code functions or if it could be made to function better, than what its style looks like or what is written among the comments.
18:39 Calinou because we're not GNOME 3
18:39 neolith2099 sapier: I see your point, but that only becomes a problem when you actually have 10000 settings :p
18:39 Calinou third person distance setting is basic!
18:39 Calinou it's not something very sophisticated
18:39 xyz VanessaE: it's hard to comment on code that's not possible to understand
18:39 xyz VanessaE: quite naturally that people are commenting on style issues in that case
18:40 sapier neolith2099: we add about 2-3 settings per month lately ... to be honest some of them are added by me too ... ok good we're gonna have some years to reach 10000
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18:40 Calinou there's quite some time until we even reach 500! relax!
18:40 Calinou please avoid hyperboles like that one; they dramatize everything
18:40 neolith2099 xyz: well in all honesty, I dont think it matters too much how everyone codes as long as they all agree to code the same way.
18:40 Calinou Lua mods are definitely not all coded in the same way ;)
18:40 xyz neolith2099: haha, sure you must be new here
18:41 VanessaE xyz: I can appreciate that, but consider this:  when you look at the code and its style hinders your ability to read the code, is it really hindering your capability to understand that code, or is it just bothering you because the style does not fit the rest of the code?
18:41 sapier still adding a setting for everything and telling user "you can customize it" instead of finding a sane default seems wrong to me
18:41 neolith2099 xyz: in essence, a one developer should look at a piece of code 6 months later and not know if the wrote it or not, simply because the style is the same.
18:41 xyz neolith2099: there's no coding guidelines in that project
18:41 xyz everybody writes as they want
18:42 VanessaE xyz: in other words, the door is painted with red and green stripes, but you can still turn the door knob.  but those red and green stripes made you stop for a second and look at them.  Did those colors hinder your ability to operate the door, or are they just irritating?
18:42 xyz meaning it depends on the weather today
18:42 sapier xyz you're wrong, there are coding guidelines but apparently only my code is checked against them ;-)
18:42 xyz sapier: i wonder why?
18:42 xyz VanessaE: thanks for your analogy but have you tried reading the code in question?
18:43 sapier I know why xyz ... but I wont tell because you'll deny it anyway
18:43 proller sapier, your overall code quality is WTF
18:43 VanessaE xyz: I have tried reading some of it, but as I don't understand the language too well as it is, and I have always had trouble understanding other peoples' code, it would be of little benefit for me to try.
18:43 neolith2099 xyz: yes, but basic code standards should be put in place and a system of checks and balances need to be put in place before solid commits are made.
18:43 xyz neolith2099: i know, right, that's not me that you need to convince
18:44 neolith2099 proller: WTF = Way To Freaky?
18:44 Calinou <xyz> neolith2099: there's no coding guidelines in that project
18:44 proller WHAT THE FUCK
18:44 Calinou for the engine, there are!
18:44 neolith2099 :p
18:44 sapier xyz I suggested to fix whole code style ages ago ... but everyone refused
18:44 Calinou http://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines
18:44 VanessaE xyz: be that as it may, you didn't answer either question.  did the coding style truly interfere with your ability to read the code or does it just irritate you enough not to want to read it?
18:44 Calinou xyz, you sound like you're in a bad mood anyway
18:45 xyz VanessaE: i don't get the difference here
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18:45 neolith2099 Calinou: I like that link
18:45 neolith2099 "Do not use "or", use "||".  Code that uses "or" instead of "||" will face immediate rejection."
18:46 neolith2099 so what about && ?
18:46 jin_xi go fuck yourself
18:46 VanessaE xyz: the difference being, you can see the code, and understand what you're reading, even if the style sucks.  but if the style sucks enough, you're not gonna read it at all because the style itself is irritating in its own right
18:46 neolith2099 lol
18:46 jin_xi :)
18:46 xyz VanessaE: code style is not just about indentation or naming things "this" instead of "self"
18:46 VanessaE like not watching your favorite movie because the medium it's being shown in irritates the shit out of you (think, television with too many commercials vs. watching it in a nice high-end home theater)
18:46 Calinou keep the insults away, please
18:46 VanessaE xyz: I know that.
18:47 Calinou we need AdBlock for TV, VanessaE :D
18:47 VanessaE Calinou: I have the ultimate adblock for TV:  I have no TV :P
18:47 neolith2099 My TV is a 46" monitor :)
18:49 xyz VanessaE: then what's the question about? code style makes it harder to understand the code, yes that irritates me
18:49 VanessaE xyz: I rejected a big patch to pipeworks a long while back for these same reasons -- because of the code style. But I'm talking about huge, long lines, everything crammed into as few lines as possible, no spaces, etc etc. the kind of stuff we all did in BASIC 30 years ago. in that case, the style both fucked up the entire code to where I couldn't even compare his changes against my original code, and made it impossible for me to read.
18:50 xyz VanessaE: now you're missing the point, i just said that code style is not just "artistic" style
18:50 sapier xyz is talking about the way of writing code, which is different for different coders and depends on what background different programmers have
18:50 xyz exactly
18:51 VanessaE xyz, he claimed that his code style in that rejected patch is to allow more code on the screen at once.  purely functional in his eyes.
18:51 sapier obviously he and proller have a common base while my style is fundamentally different
18:51 sapier and xyz expects everyone to follow his view of world
18:51 xyz sapier: i don't
18:51 proller your style allows to crush every server with two packets
18:51 sapier as puting and obama expect everyone to see world with their eyes
18:51 xyz i expect people to write understandable code
18:51 xyz i.e. put comments sometimes
18:52 xyz make it easier for other people to work with
18:52 neolith2099 ok.. what piece of code are you guys actually referring too?
18:52 neolith2099 I'm curious :p
18:52 sapier well xyz there are multiple explanations why someone doesn't understand code
18:52 * jin_xi wants to see example too
18:52 VanessaE ok now we're getting into semantics.  you're using "code style" to refer to different concepts.
18:52 proller neolith2099, all sapiers code
18:52 jin_xi ^ no not this
18:52 sapier neolith2099: there's no special line because this is aboit personal difference between proller/xyz and me
18:52 jin_xi specific
18:53 neolith2099 sample?
18:53 jin_xi i mean is the wtf in the what or the how or both?
18:53 xyz https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/pull/1241/files
18:53 sapier if it was coding style there'd be a chance to settle it
18:56 neolith2099 ok, got a sample of xyz's code?
18:56 xyz i think shadow is the one who commens on "artistic" coding style
18:56 neolith2099 so I can identify differences. :)
18:57 neolith2099 and like jin_xi said, is the formatting the issue or the implementation itself?
18:58 proller sapier's code:  https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/master/src/connection.cpp
18:59 xyz duh, i told multiple times; both are issues but i'm getting more mad about implementation
18:59 sapier until Channel::Channel() : it's almost untouched original code proller
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19:06 sapier neolith2099: I can't tell you about code from xyz and proller because they did take the easy way and don't discuss about their changes any longer
19:06 xyz neolith2099: i honestly don't think i have any recent lua code
19:06 sapier meaning they did fork and just push whatever thy write
19:07 xyz neolith2099: but you can friend me at https://github.com/xyzz
19:07 xyz i don't understand how's that related to the discussion anyway
19:07 xyz sapier: we also push what other people write!
19:08 sapier how's that related to honoring comments to YOUR code?
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19:09 xyz sapier: i don't get why you all has suddenly decided to discuss me
19:09 proller changing sapier style to proller style : https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/com​mit/6d89eaa06c08667d8011619f2bf5a31281821b​f8#diff-ec9c246444a86a039da70669e6740c89
19:09 sapier that's not sapier style that's write something someone else promised to replace by a generic parser ... well the promise is there for about a year now
19:10 sapier because that one force added json without adding the required features
19:11 sapier if I remember correct you've been involved in pushing the json addon proller
19:13 xyz oh you mean that person whose pull requests were ignored for months?
19:13 xyz hmm, yes, I wonder why he doesn't contribute much anymore
19:14 sapier I don't actually remember who did the json things
19:14 sapier I only remember I've been annoyed about having to add that crapy code and wasn't willing to spend another 2-3 days to implement the generic parser someone else promised
19:16 xyz yeah i bet proller spent his precious 2 days writing this code in that commit
19:16 xyz just look at it, it's huge
19:17 sapier most likely not but I never claimed to know about the json code moreover I expressed to not have any interest in it and this is task of the one adding it.
19:18 sapier and if proller did create a pull for this I'd have merged it quite quick .. but usually proller did create pulls containing at least 5 different unrelated things
19:19 sapier and don't tell me "you can merge it" ... I can't because you made freeminer license incompatible
19:20 sapier we all know why you did it
19:20 neolith2099 I dont.
19:20 sapier well isn't it quite obvious it's about beeing able to merge fixed from minetest while stopping us from mergeing their fixes
19:21 neolith2099 Freeminer: "Unlike Minetest it aims to make the game fun while trading off some bits of perfectionism."
19:21 neolith2099 ^ WTF does that mean?
19:21 neolith2099 :p
19:22 xyz sapier: you can ask the author of code
19:22 xyz sapier: but of course you won't, you will whine instead "waaah freeminer stealing code from us :((((("
19:22 xyz that's the second time i'm telling you that
19:22 sapier you're free to grant a permission to merge back your fixes
19:23 sapier as we do for our fixes
19:23 xyz yes so what fixes do you need?
19:23 sapier for example the json patch
19:24 xyz it'd be stupid if i said "you can just merge everything" since that'd defeat the purpose of switching to gpl (these android clones, and it's not a library anyway)
19:24 xyz sapier: that's proller's code, ask him
19:24 proller some devs was against storing favorites to json
19:24 sapier of course I'm gonna ask for each single line any single author
19:24 xyz sapier: yes or don't whine
19:24 sapier and I'm still against doing it but
19:25 xyz that you can't merge things
19:25 sapier obviously it's been merged anyway
19:26 sapier xyz what are you doing here? you don't want your work to be used in android ports why do you discuss here as everything you do here can be used there?
19:28 xyz kk, got it
19:28 xyz left #minetest-dev
19:28 VanessaE wtf??
19:28 sapier obviously you got it wrong, I wanted to know what you're doing here, not you running away as soon as you have to put your pants down
19:29 proller left #minetest-dev
19:29 sapier guess he's gonna read the log ... well maybe I shoud've used ShadowBot
19:39 kahrl funny how the chilly Russia-Germany relations have reached this chat room
19:39 kahrl should we discuss about sanctions? or should we be hugging instead?
19:39 sapier kahrl you're wrong we started this little fight way before ;-)
19:39 kahrl true ;)
19:39 VanessaE <types slowly>  Global thermonuclear war
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19:40 sapier I'd prefere to settle those differences but I haven't found a way to do by now
19:40 sapier I'm open for suggestions as I'm most likely biased
19:41 kahrl I don't know, sadly
19:42 VanessaE I have nothing either except jokes :-/
19:43 PilzAdam VanessaE, tell them!
19:45 VanessaE I just did.
19:49 neolith2099 I found some freeminer setting "disable_wieldlight".. is this available in minetest?
19:50 sapier I don't think so, and as I told due to license incompatibility we can't merge pulls done to freeminer
19:51 sapier at least unless the original author explicitly grants permission
19:51 neolith2099 well I just pulled the minetest src tree and grep'd it for it.. nada!
19:51 neolith2099 just implement it a little differently :p
19:51 VanessaE wieldlights have issues in that they must light up parts of the map, which is laggy
19:52 neolith2099 what if it's just done on the client side?
19:52 VanessaE the only way to do it right is to make all clients light up their local maps instead, which wouldn't be as much so
19:52 neolith2099 then you can do thing's like make night vision googles
19:52 jin_xi https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/816 here is the pullrequest to mt
19:53 VanessaE (the mesh gen would still have to deal with the light, but it's MUCH faster than doing it at the server and having to send the modified mapblock to all clients)
19:53 sapier neolith2099: by now lighting is done on server only
19:53 neolith2099 sapier: you gotta be kidding right?
19:53 VanessaE there's also the issue of whether the server should respond to the light cast by the player's torch.  for example, should your torch trigger a mesecons light sensor "solar" panel?
19:53 neolith2099 not means of interfacing with the clients to manipulate them?
19:54 kahrl just implement hardware lighting already, then wield lights will be trivial :)
19:54 VanessaE kahrl: agreed 100% but what about the above?
19:54 sapier no I'm not kidding neolith2099 amount of light per node is really calculated by server
19:55 sapier And I'm with kahrl, as far as I know rba is working on it but it's not yet ready to be merged
19:55 neolith2099 ok and not means of adjusting what the client's see
19:55 sapier that's not my opinion but rba's own estimation
19:56 VanessaE wait, what if the server calculates the light per node, but just doesn't bother to *show* it to clients that are capable of hardware lighting?
19:56 VanessaE that would solve everything wouldn't it?
19:56 sapier neolith2099: well if you adjust it you'd have to revert it back to original after user passed it, thus adding a second data storage for each node ... at least I'd prefere to have that time spent for real hardware lighting instead of a dirty hack
19:57 kahrl VanessaE: I think that's the plan
19:57 VanessaE ok good
19:57 neolith2099 :)
19:57 neolith2099 yay!
19:57 kahrl of course wieldlights won't be seen by the server unless there's some special handling for it
19:57 VanessaE and for old clients, they get the modified mapblock with the new lighting data like its' done now
19:57 VanessaE kahrl: that's the only question
19:58 VanessaE like I said above, should your wielded tourch be able to trigger, say, a mesecons solar panel?
19:58 VanessaE torch*
19:58 neolith2099 kahrl: that's fine by me :)
19:58 neolith2099 well your torch gives off light.. so, I guess
19:58 sapier that's a interesting question VanessaE to handle this we'll have to keep light calculation in server even after we moved to hardware lighting
19:59 neolith2099 but then again.. who heard of a torch that's lasts forever :p
19:59 sapier or find a different way to do
19:59 VanessaE I was thinking, maybe just the few nodes around you get a static value, rather than trying to calculate shadows and light spread from the wield
20:00 VanessaE that would surely be a lot less math than the existing code anyway
20:00 VanessaE but the bottleneck is still sending the changed blocks to old clients
20:01 neolith2099 might i suggest a setting that enables for this compatability for older clients :)
20:01 neolith2099 that way, when I fire up a server I be sure start an "old school" and "new school" version
20:02 sapier well neolith2099 there's still noone to implement it by now
20:02 neolith2099 and the new school doesn't have the "old clients" communication overhead
20:03 kahrl I'd think hardware lighting is a big enough change that we could call that 0.5.0, drop network compatibility and be done with it
20:03 neolith2099 kahrl: +1
20:03 sapier I agree with we can, but do we have to?
20:04 neolith2099 sooo.. whose working on it then?
20:04 neolith2099 for real this time :)
20:04 sapier I'd suggest adding hw lighting in some version before 0.5 get it stable and then switch once it's polished
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20:04 sapier and on this switch we remove old lighting
20:05 kahrl sapier: I guess that depends on what RBA wants to do
20:06 kahrl if he makes it compatible then that's good, if not then not too tragic
20:06 neolith2099 kahrl: will this also allow for entity bound lighting?
20:07 neolith2099 not just wield lighting
20:07 kahrl neolith2099: I think so
20:07 neolith2099 awesome!
20:07 kahrl maybe not immediately, but it will be easy to add
20:07 sapier I don't think it's gonna enable it without additional work too
20:08 neolith2099 how long has RBA been working on it?
20:08 sapier quite some time it's not a small change
20:09 sapier I'd not be surprised if we'd not get the first version until christmas
20:15 neolith2099 sapier: either way, I'm glad it's on the roadmap :)
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20:59 celeron55 i sure hope things are going right because i don't want to read that wall of text
21:00 sapier basically same as usual, xyz doing global critics to all of my code, me trying to find out what he really wants
21:01 sapier oh well and discussion about wield light
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21:10 neolith2099 not just wield light, but lighting support for entities too :)
21:10 sapier true I just wanted to mention the source topics
21:11 neolith2099 I look forward to what RBA produces :)
21:15 neolith2099 would also be cool if nodes could be "overlay'd" with nodes
21:16 neolith2099 then animated with the properties of that nodes.. i.e. algae, lilypads, etc. animating with the water waves.
21:17 sapier neolith2099: for what I know you can do this
21:17 sapier well somehow
21:18 sapier you'd have to define a special water node having upper texture beeing the lilypads
21:18 sapier maybe it'd even work with current variant if they'd be in correct group
21:18 neolith2099 well right now you can define a node with an additional blended texture
21:19 neolith2099 like "sandy.png^overlay_green.png" in lua
21:20 neolith2099 if there was a way to adjust this for a particular water node interactively.. that just might work :p
21:21 neolith2099 swaping a regualt water source node with a water source node with lilypad, for example
21:21 neolith2099 but then the water needs to be transparent and the lilypad not.
21:22 sapier I'd expect it to work
21:22 neolith2099 and then there is the question of digging the lily pad water node.
21:22 sapier but I haven't tried yet
21:23 sapier what question?
21:23 neolith2099 well it would be funny to beable to dig a water node without a bucket
21:23 sapier did you try it by now? ;)
21:24 neolith2099 so I guess you could mark it as diggable and then once it's dug.. give the player the lilypad and then replace it with the water node
21:24 neolith2099 i'm just thinking out loud :p
21:24 neolith2099 I'll put a POC together tomorrow
21:24 sapier that'd been my first idea too but it doesn't have to be the best way to do it. If you're interested in doing things like that I suggest trying ;-)
21:25 neolith2099 well.. I've seen a lily pad algae mod out there... think it's VanessaE's
21:25 neolith2099 part of plant_lib or something
21:27 neolith2099 at any rate, I'll tinker with it tomorrow... plenty to do while waiting for hardware lighting support :)
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21:31 VanessaE neolith2099: Plantlife modpack, "flowers_plus" I think I called it.
21:31 VanessaE *checks* yep.
21:35 neolith2099 so what's the reason you did it the way you did and not how I am suggesting? *maybe you had a special reason*
21:35 sapier I guess it's because waving shaders didn't exist by the time the mod was created
21:37 VanessaE yeah
21:37 VanessaE those need...something
21:37 VanessaE I'm open to suggestions :P
21:38 neolith2099 I'll put my poc together first to see if this is eve reasonable.
21:38 VanessaE maybe a custom shader that can be applied to those objects?
21:38 neolith2099 I wonder about the water transparency settings if I go the node swaping route
21:39 neolith2099 last thing I want is a transparent lilypad :p
21:39 VanessaE (well, to be applied to an arbitrary "flat object" anyway)
21:40 neolith2099 oh and one more thing... what about animating things like chests opening, etc?
21:40 neolith2099 I assume that would require making the chest into a model and animating it accordingly when activated.
21:41 VanessaE probably so
21:41 VanessaE should be doable
21:41 neolith2099 hhhmmmm..... another thing I'll poc later on.
21:41 neolith2099 does something like that add significant performance hit?
21:42 neolith2099 I suppose it wouldn't have more bog-down than a mob.
21:43 VanessaE I wouldn't expect a performance hit, but lag would be a problem
21:43 VanessaE this is something that needs to be done client-side
21:43 neolith2099 and it's not like the server needs to do more work.. *correct me if im wrong *
21:43 neolith2099 that's how I would do it.
21:43 neolith2099 it's not like you'd want everyone to see your chest is open
21:44 neolith2099 then I would have to make it that while it's open.. someone else could steal your stuff too :p
21:44 neolith2099 which would add a whole new value to locked doors :p
21:45 neolith2099 anyway... lily pads first... then i'll doodle with animated chests
21:46 neolith2099 I'm not much of a blender user.. I use MAX.. what plugin is best suited to generating the *.x file?
21:46 VanessaE don't use .x
21:46 neolith2099 I use 3ds 2014
21:46 sapier I suggest creating a b3d file
21:46 VanessaE use .b3d
21:46 VanessaE ninja'd :)
21:47 sapier it's a binary format thus beeing way more small then .x (especially if you use animations)
21:47 sapier and irrlicht support for it is as good as .x
21:47 neolith2099 gotcha. thnx
21:49 neolith2099 oh.. another thing... lol
21:49 neolith2099 how would that work with texture packs?
21:49 neolith2099 sry.. it's nighttime here and my mind goes crazy with ideas at night.
21:50 sapier I suggest doing it step by step ;-)
21:50 neolith2099 for sure... ok.. calling it a night
21:51 neolith2099 adios, my new amigos!
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21:56 VanessaE *reaches for the keyboard to respond to the texture packs question*
21:57 VanessaE *gets shut down by neolith having already signed off*
21:57 VanessaE damn it.
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