| Time |
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Message |
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| 08:52 |
celeron55 |
i wonder how the configuration saving should work |
| 08:52 |
celeron55 |
currently Settings works so that if a setting is changed and saved, it will replace every occurrence of it in the file |
| 08:53 |
celeron55 |
i had multiple iterations of a few settings in the file commented as being from different dates with the expectation that the earlier ones don't take effect (they don't) and the earlier ones won't be overwritten (they are) and that isn't doable now due to this |
| 08:54 |
celeron55 |
i think it should only modify the last occurrence of a given setting in the file |
| 09:32 |
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| 10:16 |
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| 12:13 |
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| 12:23 |
ShadowNinja |
Fix recursive node metadata fetching: http://sprunge.us/UZdb?diff |
| 12:49 |
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| 15:20 |
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| 15:35 |
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| 15:43 |
Calinou |
doesn't the new-ish (since 0.4.4) default server step (0.1s) slow down stuff, compared to the older one (0.2s)? |
| 15:43 |
Calinou |
especially when using mods |
| 16:19 |
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| 16:19 |
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| 16:21 |
sapier |
calinou 0.1 is less then 0.2 so I'd expect it to cause more cpu load but increase speed, of course if you already are at 100% load it wont have any effect |
| 16:22 |
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| 16:30 |
rubenwardy |
I have fixed #1255, ShadowNinja |
| 16:30 |
rubenwardy |
( Add item eat callback - https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1255 ) |
| 16:39 |
Calinou |
do I need this in order to make eating play a sound? |
| 16:39 |
Calinou |
or can I do this without the PR? |
| 16:43 |
rubenwardy |
Calinou: you would need your mod to load before default, and override minetest.item_eat, or you need to go through and support foods like Better HUD does |
| 16:43 |
rubenwardy |
ie: overriding the on use for eat food in a list |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
can I just add a sound_play thingy in the on_use function? |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
of the item |
| 16:44 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/BlockMen/hud/blob/master/hunger.lua#L47 |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
(I'd like different sounds per item) |
| 16:44 |
rubenwardy |
You could, but you would have to make your own on_use, and not use minetest.item_eat |
| 17:14 |
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| 17:25 |
Megaf |
Jordach: Why don't you use a good GNU/Linux distro? You use quite a lot of Open Source software already |
| 17:26 |
Megaf |
install Debian Wheezy KDE and you will be fine |
| 17:26 |
Megaf |
sorry, wrong channel again |
| 17:28 |
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| 17:30 |
sfan5 |
http://sprunge.us/QCIa?diff |
| 17:30 |
sfan5 |
comments please |
| 17:31 |
VanessaE_ |
seriously? |
| 17:32 |
sapier |
nope, I don't believe this to be correct sfan5 |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE_ |
(if that worked, you might just as well print "compiled with Win64 and GNU C" instead of a silly fish :P ) |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE_ |
oh, sapier, back for more I see? ;) |
| 17:33 |
sapier |
can someone explain to me why I never hear to my own suggestions? ... hud code is fucked up to a degree it's unbelieveable, especially the way how it's transmitted to client |
| 17:34 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: because you always sign off right after you ask for suggestions :P |
| 17:34 |
VanessaE_ |
also, RBA and I worked out an idea last night that should do |
| 17:35 |
VanessaE_ |
not coded yet |
| 17:35 |
VanessaE_ |
at least relative to our.....discussion last night :P |
| 17:35 |
sapier |
~tell ShadowNinja 706 is not ok |
| 17:35 |
ShadowBot |
sapier: O.K. |
| 17:35 |
sapier |
tell me about it VanessaE |
| 17:36 |
Calinou |
sounds played in a particular position are very loud, compared to sounds played at player positions |
| 17:37 |
VanessaE_ |
well it's more or less what we discussed, adding a flag to the statbar scale parameter. if absent, items are scaled to fit a fixed bounding box (fixed relative to the DPI and window size that is). if present and set to true, items are displayed at their raw size |
| 17:37 |
VanessaE_ |
that preserves the old behavior where it's needed, and fixes the scaling for everyone else |
| 17:37 |
VanessaE_ |
should avoid breaking anything that can't be easily fixed. |
| 17:38 |
VanessaE_ |
we didn't discuss any C++ --> Lua conversion of the default statbars though |
| 17:38 |
Calinou |
we should migrate them, if they are client-side predicted? |
| 17:39 |
sapier |
but we don't have a bounding box by now |
| 17:40 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: the discussion includes RBA's idea of patching it to include one |
| 17:40 |
* VanessaE_ |
flashes her "Department of Redundancy Dept." badge :P |
| 17:40 |
sapier |
forget about it, I'm not gonna waste another 6h like yesterday if a proper fix can be done within 2h |
| 17:42 |
VanessaE_ |
a proper fix must do three things: Put the statbars in Lua, make them fit a fixed window-relative size regardless of the size of the textures that make them up -- by default that is, and provide for displaying them at any arbitrary size if and only if the modder explicitly wants that. |
| 17:42 |
sapier |
and all except the pure lua statbar is already present |
| 17:42 |
sapier |
yes 706 has a bug but thats a minor issue |
| 17:43 |
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| 17:44 |
VanessaE_ |
706? |
| 17:44 |
sapier |
the patch adding size specification for statbars |
| 17:45 |
VanessaE_ |
I don't see that here |
| 17:45 |
sapier |
becaus it's been closed to to lack of attention |
| 17:45 |
VanessaE_ |
oh derp, didn't check the closed items |
| 17:45 |
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| 17:46 |
sapier |
it's abusing the scale parameter and uses wrong bounding rects but it's still the required feature |
| 17:48 |
VanessaE_ |
well the problem RBA was trying to get across is that no matter how a mod specifies things, if a texture pack is supplied that the mod doesn't know about, that texture pack is guaranteed to break the layout of the screen if the statbar is not forced to fit a certain bounding box by default. |
| 17:48 |
VanessaE_ |
and that's because the code here is relying on the x/y dimensions of the image, regardless of the image's source (which may be the client), to set the layout. |
| 17:49 |
sapier |
vanessae the only difference between rba's suggestion and what I believe to be correct is rba wants a c++ hardcoded value for ALL statbars |
| 17:49 |
VanessaE_ |
mm |
| 17:49 |
VanessaE_ |
yeah |
| 17:49 |
sapier |
I want the size to be specific PER statbar |
| 17:50 |
sapier |
or none if it's not set |
| 17:50 |
VanessaE_ |
we had settled on something roughly opposite of that after you left - statbar-specific sizes, but a variable has to BE set to enforce a size |
| 17:51 |
VanessaE_ |
that way they'll all default to some sane size |
| 17:51 |
VanessaE_ |
so that existing mods don't have to be changed |
| 17:51 |
sapier |
well I don't care if that variable has to be set or not I just want it to be configurable for mods |
| 17:51 |
sapier |
and not hardcoded in draw statbar c++ code |
| 17:53 |
VanessaE_ |
it will be configurable |
| 17:53 |
VanessaE_ |
the idea is that the statbar scale params will be used to adjust the overall size of the bar |
| 17:54 |
VanessaE_ |
which will change the size of the bounding box also |
| 17:54 |
sapier |
give me an hour and it's gonna be done, I don't wanna discuss another 6 hours about it like yesterday |
| 17:55 |
VanessaE_ |
heh |
| 17:55 |
VanessaE_ |
well just give RBA and I a chance to look it over ;) |
| 17:55 |
VanessaE_ |
(you know me, I'll abuse the shit out of it, from a texture pack standpoint :P ) |
| 17:56 |
sapier |
I'll do it as a pull request as usually ... to give everyone chance to discuss another 10h about it |
| 17:56 |
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| 17:56 |
VanessaE_ |
lol |
| 17:57 |
sapier |
lua hud documentation is crap |
| 17:58 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE_, sapier: yes that actually works |
| 17:59 |
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| 18:03 |
sapier |
lua_api.txt does anyone have a suggestion how to improove lua_api.txt? I never find what I'm looking for in there |
| 18:06 |
sfan5 |
so... |
| 18:06 |
sfan5 |
can I merge http://sprunge.us/QCIa?diff ? |
| 18:07 |
sapier |
not without someone confirming this is really required, it looks to weired to be true |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:07 |
sfan5 |
I can confirm that this is required |
| 18:07 |
sfan5 |
it's weird |
| 18:07 |
sapier |
you're the one suggesting it ;-) |
| 18:07 |
sfan5 |
but solves my problem |
| 18:07 |
sfan5 |
well |
| 18:08 |
sfan5 |
to confirm it you need to compile mingw64 yourself & build minetest for win64 |
| 18:08 |
sapier |
usually when I stumble uppon things like that I recognize some hours/days later I did something wrong |
| 18:08 |
sfan5 |
ban.cpp hasn't been touches in 3 months |
| 18:08 |
sfan5 |
when I add debug output it works |
| 18:08 |
sapier |
I can't believe gcc fails for basic things like try catch handling |
| 18:08 |
sfan5 |
without the debug output the catch() is somehow ignored and game.cpp catches the serializeerror and shows it to the usr |
| 18:08 |
sfan5 |
user* |
| 18:09 |
sapier |
as I said things like that usually are workarounds working for a single person only because they modify timing a little bit |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
timing should not affect exceptions |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen reported the problem with my build too |
| 18:10 |
sapier |
neither should text behind it do |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
ik, but.. |
| 18:10 |
sapier |
imho there's something else wrong |
| 18:11 |
sapier |
I believe the additional print just hides the real error |
| 18:11 |
VanessaE_ |
isn't there some compiler directive that could be supplied there instead? |
| 18:11 |
VanessaE_ |
(assuming it really IS just the compiler trying to be too smart?) |
| 18:11 |
sfan5 |
I don't think so |
| 18:11 |
sapier |
catch can't be optimized away that'd be a huge bug |
| 18:11 |
sfan5 |
ik that too |
| 18:11 |
sfan5 |
but ban.cpp has not been touched in 3 months |
| 18:11 |
sfan5 |
and it was always working fine |
| 18:12 |
sfan5 |
even in the other win64 builds |
| 18:12 |
sapier |
that could tell it's been broken before too but something else did hide the bug |
| 18:12 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: it wouldn't be the first time I've seen a nasty compiler bug like that. |
| 18:12 |
sfan5 |
uhh that is not possible |
| 18:12 |
sapier |
no |
| 18:12 |
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| 18:12 |
sfan5 |
only BanManager accesses ipban.txt |
| 18:12 |
sfan5 |
there is no way the file could somehow get created before BanManager runs |
| 18:13 |
VanessaE_ |
years ago gcc used to abort all the time with "bus error". people blamed my hardware. turned out to be some obscure bug in the compiler. |
| 18:13 |
sapier |
that'd not be nasty that'd be horrific it's like compiler doing unsigned int i = 1+1 --> i == 20 |
| 18:13 |
sfan5 |
that'd be a CPU bug then |
| 18:14 |
sapier |
that reminds me of a situation where a file was created without the code beeing run that'd be supposed to create it |
| 18:15 |
sapier |
it's been created because at a completely different location filename was read from a array with out of bounds index |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
that is not the case here |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
(assuming libstdc++ has no bugs) |
| 18:16 |
sapier |
of course not, that's just an example for strange behaviour is usually caused by a real bug, some ones are easy to find, others are at completely different location then the fault occuring |
| 18:16 |
sfan5 |
I'm not debugging this shit, at least not under windows |
| 18:16 |
sapier |
and having to do a print to get an exception smells like later one |
| 18:17 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, i can only confirm that you build crashed, not that it was caused by that |
| 18:17 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: it did crash with BanManager thingy, right? |
| 18:17 |
sfan5 |
sapier: I have to do a print so the exception is not passed on level up |
| 18:18 |
sapier |
that doesn't change the smell |
| 18:18 |
BlockMen |
idk...look in the error log i gave you, sfan5 |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
you gave me an error log? |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
22:07:34: ERROR[main]: BanManager::load(): Couldn't open file |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
that happenening is impossible because BanManager:BanManager() should always catch the SerializationError |
| 18:26 |
sapier |
unless it isn't a serialization error |
| 18:27 |
sfan5 |
it is |
| 18:27 |
sapier |
then there might be another path to get there |
| 18:27 |
sfan5 |
right before that it says: ERROR[main]: A serialization error occurred: |
| 18:28 |
sfan5 |
which is ONLY in a catch(SerializationError &e) block in game.cpp |
| 18:28 |
sfan5 |
which is printed* |
| 18:28 |
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RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:30 |
RealBadAngel |
hi folks |
| 18:30 |
sfan5 |
hi RealBadAngel |
| 18:30 |
VanessaE_ |
hoi |
| 18:30 |
VanessaE_ |
hi |
| 18:31 |
RealBadAngel |
was thinkin about scale variable while at work, it is proper way to do that |
| 18:32 |
sapier |
I'm almost done with it rba wait for about half an hour to an hour and you'll have a proper fix |
| 18:32 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, no no no. now you have to wait a bit more. |
| 18:33 |
RealBadAngel |
you have waited already for almost a year |
| 18:33 |
RealBadAngel |
you can wait a day more |
| 18:33 |
sapier |
no I wont waste another 6 hours on discussing a 2h fix |
| 18:34 |
RealBadAngel |
shall i paste what you have wrote yesterday? |
| 18:34 |
RealBadAngel |
somethin like i wont work on hud anymore? :P |
| 18:35 |
VanessaE_ |
RealBadAngel: check the -dev logs for the past ~2 hours |
| 18:35 |
VanessaE_ |
we already chatted about this before you returned |
| 18:36 |
VanessaE_ |
well past hour anyway |
| 18:36 |
RealBadAngel |
just tell me, will texture packs work with it without any mods needed? |
| 18:37 |
RealBadAngel |
if not i wont waste my time ;) |
| 18:37 |
VanessaE_ |
if they don't, I will personally fly to Germany and kick Sapier's ass ;) |
| 18:37 |
VanessaE_ |
(they will, I'm sure) |
| 18:38 |
RealBadAngel |
if they wont i will send you extra leg for greater kickin effect ;) |
| 18:39 |
VanessaE_ |
heh |
| 18:39 |
* RealBadAngel |
fires up the logs |
| 18:45 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, i just hope that you are going to make texture packs work again without any mods needed |
| 18:46 |
RealBadAngel |
if not, dont expect me to agree with your changes |
| 18:59 |
sapier |
ok add another hour for fixing various bugs in number conversion |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:06 |
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| 19:13 |
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| 19:15 |
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| 19:16 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, i do have proper fix for non-scalable version, with member variable and so |
| 19:19 |
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| 19:19 |
RealBadAngel |
hi kaeza |
| 19:19 |
kaeza |
hey RBA |
| 19:19 |
RealBadAngel |
how ur distro is doing? |
| 19:21 |
RealBadAngel |
youre the only one to have problems with non-moveable fog |
| 19:22 |
RealBadAngel |
im still waiting for you to reproduce that issue |
| 19:22 |
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| 19:22 |
VanessaE_ |
greetz kaeza |
| 19:32 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: do I need to go get my ass-kicking boots? ;) |
| 19:32 |
sapier |
nope just some rounding issues hud designers didn't take care about |
| 19:39 |
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nore joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:43 |
RealBadAngel |
hi nore |
| 19:43 |
nore |
hi |
| 19:43 |
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| 19:43 |
RealBadAngel |
was the camera offset patch done by u? |
| 19:43 |
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| 19:44 |
nore |
yep, why? |
| 19:45 |
RealBadAngel |
you have broken waypoints with it |
| 19:45 |
nore |
ah, didn't think to those when I did the code... |
| 19:46 |
RealBadAngel |
some1 opened issued on it, hold on |
| 19:47 |
RealBadAngel |
hmm, cant find it. |
| 19:48 |
nore |
I think I had made the patch before that... but it was not merged until later |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE_, do you remember where was that? |
| 19:49 |
VanessaE_ |
nope |
| 19:49 |
VanessaE_ |
wait, yep: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1248 |
| 19:50 |
RealBadAngel |
ah yes |
| 19:50 |
RealBadAngel |
nore, can u do something with that? |
| 19:53 |
nore |
hud.cpp, line 277: v3f w_pos = e->world_pos * BS; <-- add the camera offset to that (don't remember how you can get it though) |
| 19:54 |
RealBadAngel |
shit, hud.cpp again |
| 19:54 |
RealBadAngel |
its a curse or what? |
| 19:54 |
VanessaE_ |
<voice="Nelson"> ha, ha! </voice> |
| 19:54 |
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| 19:55 |
RealBadAngel |
nore, where have you calculated that offset? |
| 19:56 |
nore |
see camera.cpp |
| 19:56 |
RealBadAngel |
ok |
| 19:57 |
nore |
ah: camera.h, L87 |
| 19:58 |
nore |
you need to do some intToFloat(camera_offset, BS) after that too |
| 20:00 |
RealBadAngel |
i guess we would need something like get_camera_pos |
| 20:01 |
RealBadAngel |
that will take care of the offsets |
| 20:02 |
nore |
(btw, you will need to subtract, not add the offset) |
| 20:03 |
RealBadAngel |
could you add such method to camera? |
| 20:05 |
nore |
why would it be needed? camera position should be internal-only... |
| 20:05 |
RealBadAngel |
waypoints need it |
| 20:06 |
RealBadAngel |
and are placed in hud code |
| 20:08 |
RealBadAngel |
distnance to the waypoint from definition is camera_pos - player_pos |
| 20:13 |
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| 20:26 |
BlockMen |
RealBadAngel, i dont know if get_camera_pos is an good idea (since the camera pos can be changed by lua and third person view also changes) |
| 20:26 |
BlockMen |
so it would give you a wrong waypoint then |
| 20:34 |
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| 20:59 |
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| 21:02 |
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| 21:04 |
RealBadAngel |
BlockMen, distance showed is the one between your eyes and set postion |
| 21:05 |
RealBadAngel |
so everything that affects your eyes should be counted imho |
| 21:06 |
BlockMen |
ah, so it uses players eye pos and not camera pos. well, its fine then i guess |
| 21:07 |
RealBadAngel |
so, jumping, dogding dancing around changes the distance |
| 21:09 |
RealBadAngel |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=010KyIQjkTk |
| 21:09 |
RealBadAngel |
;) |
| 21:10 |
RealBadAngel |
in other words, distance should be show correctly no mather you do |
| 21:10 |
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| 21:12 |
sapier |
can someone explain to me where breath is calculated? because to me it looks like client does calculate it and I can't really believe this |
| 21:13 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier. ure timing out with the patch... |
| 21:13 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: It's client-side. |
| 21:14 |
sapier |
true because of crazy things like that one ... why is this client side? |
| 21:14 |
RealBadAngel |
im giving you half an hour before i push my own complete one |
| 21:15 |
RealBadAngel |
so get ur ass tight |
| 21:15 |
sapier |
do you have a pull request for it to be reviewed? |
| 21:15 |
sapier |
if not get your ass up and do it like any reasonable developer would do for obviously controversial changes |
| 21:16 |
RealBadAngel |
need a handy hand? most of the code was there since yesterday |
| 21:17 |
RealBadAngel |
but yesterday you were dreamin about baloons |
| 21:17 |
sapier |
if I wanted to do the ugly way I would've been finished about an hour ago |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
im going out to buy something to eat, when im back i will paste you the changes |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
10-15 minutes |
| 21:19 |
sapier |
I'm gonna revert your patch anyway if it's as broken as I believe it to be |
| 21:19 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 21:19 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont really want to compete |
| 21:20 |
RealBadAngel |
i just want to get it done right |
| 21:20 |
sapier |
And I don't want a broken fix |
| 21:20 |
sapier |
seems to be same target |
| 21:20 |
ShadowNinja |
Enough with the trash talk. Just make pulls and have them reviewed. |
| 21:20 |
RealBadAngel |
we will find a solution |
| 21:28 |
sapier |
ok rba it's your decision get a pull request for heartbar as well as breath bar placed where they are now or wait another half an hour to get them dynamicaly placed based uppon dpi and user scale |
| 21:31 |
RealBadAngel |
you mean push my own code or review yours? |
| 21:32 |
sapier |
do what you want but if you push your code without review I'm gonna push mine that way too |
| 21:32 |
RealBadAngel |
wait a bit them, im out now to buy somethin to eat |
| 21:33 |
RealBadAngel |
and now, im really out |
| 21:33 |
sapier |
as I said I'm gonna create a pull request |
| 21:33 |
RealBadAngel |
go for it |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
i will check it when im back |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
15-20 minutes |
| 21:35 |
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| 21:36 |
RealBadAngel |
my gf is still dressing up |
| 21:37 |
RealBadAngel |
can you link your code? |
| 21:39 |
RealBadAngel |
sidenote, why girls are thinkin going out to buy frozen pizza or something is worth 30 minutes of getting ready? |
| 21:41 |
cg72 |
because we need to always look our best for our men/other partner |
| 21:41 |
cg72 |
lol |
| 21:41 |
RealBadAngel |
pick the most frozen one from the frifge? lol |
| 21:42 |
cg72 |
only if it has bacon on it hehe |
| 21:44 |
sapier |
https://github.com/sapier/minetest/tree/statbar_basesize_support it's yours to check while I'm doing the dpi based layout addon feature |
| 21:44 |
cg72 |
wow thanks, but i doubt i can offer much help |
| 21:45 |
cg72 |
lol opps wrong window |
| 21:46 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: s/luahud/Lua HUD/; s/uppon/upon/ |
| 21:46 |
sapier |
ok |
| 21:48 |
sapier |
hmm I already have relative positions, additional adjustment doesn't make any sense |
| 21:49 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: this seems okay. what happens if a size is not specified in the statbar setup? |
| 21:49 |
sapier |
same as previous |
| 21:49 |
VanessaE_ |
same as previous, meaning what? |
| 21:49 |
sapier |
size of texture is used |
| 21:49 |
VanessaE_ |
ew. |
| 21:50 |
sapier |
that's how it's now and 100% compatible |
| 21:50 |
VanessaE_ |
for the default ones, that'll work okay, as I can see you've already specified the size |
| 21:50 |
VanessaE_ |
but what about other peoples' mods? |
| 21:50 |
VanessaE_ |
those are still broken |
| 21:50 |
VanessaE_ |
you need to include some sort of sane default |
| 21:50 |
sapier |
those mods can either use their own textures or fix their mods |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE_ |
those mods have no control over the *user's* texture packs though. |
| 21:51 |
sapier |
if I add a default I'm gonna break mods relying on texture size if I don't I break the other ones, no matter what we do some mods will be broken |
| 21:51 |
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| 21:51 |
VanessaE_ |
please, just put a sane default in there. |
| 21:51 |
sapier |
I don't believe there is a sane default |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE_ |
if mods rely on texture size to set the size of the hud, they're doing it wrong |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE_ |
this is undefined behavior before |
| 21:52 |
VanessaE_ |
it was never supposed to be like that was it? |
| 21:52 |
VanessaE_ |
a sane default is whatever the default bars use, which now is 24 |
| 21:52 |
VanessaE_ |
(it was, btw, about 18px) |
| 21:52 |
VanessaE_ |
(at least on my screen) |
| 21:52 |
sapier |
old clients will still handle it that way why add some hidden parameters |
| 21:53 |
VanessaE_ |
we don't need to care about old clients here |
| 21:53 |
VanessaE_ |
not with a new release looming on the horizon |
| 21:53 |
sapier |
what's benefit of changeing a behaviour? |
| 21:53 |
sapier |
no matter what value will be default it's gonna be wrong |
| 21:53 |
VanessaE_ |
the benefit is that, imho, less stuff will be broken with a sane default, and more texturability will be possible |
| 21:54 |
VanessaE_ |
you are asking mod authors to change their code now to make texturability possible |
| 21:54 |
sapier |
nothing more will be possible |
| 21:54 |
VanessaE_ |
this is a point of failure |
| 21:54 |
sapier |
it's the mod authors decision to write it that way I don't believe in telling them "but a statbar has to be 16px" |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE_ |
nonono |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE_ |
I'm not saying make it a "has to be" setting |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE_ |
I'm saying make it a "if you don't change it, it'll be this" setting. |
| 21:55 |
sapier |
but that's exactly what you do if you don't expect them to change their mods |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE_ |
if a mod author is already coding something, they're not gonna have a problem adding another line of code |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE_ |
but if they're *not*, then don't expect them to want to fix their code |
| 21:56 |
VanessaE_ |
and I expect 99% of HUD-based mods won't need changed anyway |
| 21:56 |
VanessaE_ |
they're gonna write their HUDs to integrate properly with the default ones |
| 21:56 |
VanessaE_ |
no one wants their code to look out of place |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE_ |
so maybe the default would be what you have now, 24px. |
| 21:57 |
sapier |
no image in minetest does have a default size, no sprites, no imagebuttons nothing |
| 21:57 |
sapier |
but for hud you believe it's a must have |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE_ |
it must because it was always displayed at a predictable size before |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE_ |
just like the hotbar had a more or less predictable size |
| 21:58 |
sapier |
if you want this value to be set I'm gonna make it a mandatory parameter but I don't believe in hidden default parameters |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE_ |
why do you call it hidden? |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE_ |
that's stupid |
| 21:58 |
sapier |
because it's not shown |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE_ |
every system has hidden sane defaults. |
| 21:58 |
sapier |
it's implicitly added that's what I call hidden parameter |
| 21:59 |
VanessaE_ |
your car has a hidden sane default idle speed, but you don't see a setting for it do you? |
| 21:59 |
sapier |
does every care have same idle speed? no, depends on the car(texture) |
| 22:00 |
sapier |
imho fixing broken mods by adding a default parameter in core is wrong way to do it |
| 22:00 |
VanessaE_ |
if you add a mandatory parameter, all of those mods become totally broken then don't they? |
| 22:01 |
VanessaE_ |
I mean, what happens if this param is now mandatory but omitted? |
| 22:01 |
sapier |
of course but that's better then adding a workaround to core |
| 22:01 |
sapier |
and imho a default parameter for this is a workaround |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE_ |
ok, but that doesn't answer my question |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE_ |
if you made the size parameter mandatory, and some mod omits it, what happens then? |
| 22:03 |
sapier |
if it's mandatory mods will immediatly crash and tell about it beeing broken |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE_ |
the mod crashes? huge images? pink fairies erupt out of RealBadAngel's ass, what? |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE_ |
ew. |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE_ |
that's even worse. |
| 22:03 |
sapier |
mandatory is mandatory if it's not there it's a error |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE_ |
well the problem you're completely ignoring is this: |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE_ |
suppose for the moment: |
| 22:04 |
VanessaE_ |
you push the code you just proposed. |
| 22:04 |
VanessaE_ |
Joe Schmoe creates a nice texture pack that includes really good imagery for, let's say, that hunger mod and a few others out there that add more statbars. |
| 22:05 |
VanessaE_ |
but his images are larger than the statbars were programmed for. |
| 22:05 |
VanessaE_ |
BUT... |
| 22:05 |
VanessaE_ |
his heart and bubble images work fine, because you programmed the statbars for those to be 24px. |
| 22:05 |
sapier |
it's 16px ... looks strange for your own texture pack but that's something different |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE_ |
Now Jane Q. Public the 3rd downloads Joe Schmoe's texture pack and one of these third party HUD mods. |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE_ |
she sees the statbar for the hearts and bubbles look fine but the hunger bar spills off the screen. |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE_ |
whose fault is it? |
| 22:06 |
sapier |
hunger bar mod |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE_ |
why is it the hunger bar mod's fault? |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE_ |
you changed the API. |
| 22:07 |
sapier |
no I didn't that's exactly what I tell about |
| 22:07 |
VanessaE_ |
(in this hypothetical example that is) |
| 22:07 |
ShadowNinja |
Hunger bar mod can't do anything about that. |
| 22:07 |
sapier |
Lua hud was always done that texture size was stat bar size it's never been different |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE_ |
actually strike that "you changed the API" part. |
| 22:08 |
sapier |
ShadowNinja: after the suggested pull it can |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE_ |
why is it the hunger bar mod author's fault? he can't control what Joe Schmoe and jane Q. Public do on their computers. |
| 22:08 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: And if the developer is gone it crashes and is never fixed. |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE_ |
shouldn't the engine take care of this? |
| 22:09 |
sapier |
btw changeing lua hud api isn't an issue as it's defined to be experimental, still I don't believe in default paramters imho the only two options are either make that parameter mandatory or keep the current behaviour |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE_ |
keeping the current behavior is right out. |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE_ |
no fucking way. |
| 22:09 |
sapier |
the engine is not supposed to fix mods |
| 22:09 |
ShadowNinja |
Default parameters save typing and compatability. |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE_ |
making that parameter is a bad idea because that changes the API for no good reason and breaks mods |
| 22:10 |
sapier |
ShadowNinja: that's normal way of life for a mod if there are enough people interested in it it's gonna be fixed |
| 22:10 |
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| 22:11 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: all of my mods have sane defaults in them that can be overridden by user config options in minetest.conf or in mods that call their functions. |
| 22:11 |
sapier |
ShadowNinja: if those parameters are neutral and don't change the behaviour that might be correct in some cases but it isn't for this one |
| 22:11 |
VanessaE_ |
the whole point of sane defaults is to let you use fewer parameters to get the job done. |
| 22:11 |
ShadowNinja |
I will not agree to breaking the API when you only need to add a default to keep compatibility. |
| 22:12 |
sapier |
then add RBA's fix |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE_ |
Add your fix and a sane default. Jeez |
| 22:13 |
sapier |
because my patch does keep current api |
| 22:13 |
sapier |
the default parameter will break it |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE_ |
a sane default would be "24" in this case |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE_ |
better to break a mod such that it's just a visual glitch than to make it crash |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE_ |
especially if it glitches such that the thing will probably still look and work just fine |
| 22:14 |
sapier |
definitivly no this was all about avoiding that damn hardcoded default value |
| 22:16 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: you're free to merge your fix |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: "hardcoded" implies "this value will be used everywhere and you're screwed if you wanna change it" |
| 22:17 |
VanessaE_ |
whereas we're just talking about "this value will be used if you don't set one" |
| 22:17 |
VanessaE_ |
hell, you could even put it right there in builtin |
| 22:17 |
sapier |
what you want is a workaround for broken mods it's wrong to do this in core |
| 22:17 |
VanessaE_ |
and pass it back to C++ |
| 22:20 |
VanessaE_ |
if you're so worried about the value being hard-coded in core, put a little wrapper in Lua that mods would call, have that pass the default value back to core to do the work, then it can be overridden in Lua if so desired. |
| 22:21 |
VanessaE_ |
(obviously rename the core function so that the Lua one would be called instead, if that's possible. you get my point) |
| 22:21 |
sapier |
I wont change my mind about this beeing a workaround for mods and imho thats a big mistake |
| 22:21 |
VanessaE_ |
it's not a workaround, it's calle dbackwards compatibility |
| 22:21 |
VanessaE_ |
and there's nothing at all wrong with that |
| 22:21 |
VanessaE_ |
before all this Lua HUD crap went in, it worked perfectly |
| 22:21 |
VanessaE_ |
when the Lua HUD stuff went in, texture packs got busted. |
| 22:22 |
sapier |
if you believe the old behaviour to be wrong fix it in a sane way by forcing the mods to update if you don't believe it to be wrong there's no reaso to change the existing behaviour |
| 22:22 |
VanessaE_ |
the correct way, from the beginning would have been to put the HUD stuff in, with sane defaults for statbar sizes, unit counts, etc. so that with the fewest parameters possible, they'd end up looking like the heart bar. |
| 22:23 |
sapier |
there haven't been any mod created statbars prior hud |
| 22:23 |
VanessaE_ |
I know that. |
| 22:23 |
VanessaE_ |
prior to HUD, there was just the heart bar. and it just worked. |
| 22:23 |
sapier |
there are no sane defaults, the only sane option is making those parameters mandatory |
| 22:23 |
VanessaE_ |
when HUD went in, the heart bar got busted. then the bubble bar got added -- in the now-busted state. |
| 22:24 |
RealBadAngel |
prior to hud all the texture pack makers were screaming out loud why the statbars are broken |
| 22:24 |
sapier |
we've got images in hud to let's make them default to 100x100 |
| 22:24 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: add your fix |
| 22:25 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: no, add your fix with a default of "24". |
| 22:25 |
VanessaE_ |
no one will complain but you. |
| 22:25 |
sapier |
I wont do that |
| 22:25 |
RealBadAngel |
hold on, im polishing that (i just got back from shopping with some frozen food) |
| 22:26 |
RealBadAngel |
since the issue is yr old it can wait a few minutes more? |
| 22:26 |
sapier |
I don't care, I'm just gonna write issues for everything you broke |
| 22:27 |
VanessaE_ |
head --> desk |
| 22:27 |
sapier |
why do you expect statbar to have a default size while nothing else has? |
| 22:28 |
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| 22:28 |
VanessaE_ |
because statbars are the only thing on the Minetest screen that is not scaled to fit? |
| 22:29 |
VanessaE_ |
well that and I guess the crosshair doesn't scale |
| 22:29 |
sapier |
really? are hud images scaled to fit something? |
| 22:29 |
VanessaE_ |
they used to be. |
| 22:30 |
sapier |
there haven't been any hud images prior Lua HUD and as of that time size is mandatory ... because there is no sane default |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE_ |
before Lua HUD, they were scaled regardless of the size or source of the textures used to generate them. |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE_ |
I used to have 128px heart images in HDX and they worked perfectly. |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE_ |
(I eventually reduced them to 32px because 128px was excessive) |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE_ |
when Lua HUD went in, even my 32px imagery was too big and I was forced to rescale them to 18px |
| 22:31 |
sapier |
and they do work again, nothing is different to prior HUD addition except for those features added by Lua HUD wich will stay exactly as they are now |
| 22:31 |
VanessaE_ |
yes, now with this patch you propose, it will work *for the default heart/bubble statbars* |
| 22:31 |
VanessaE_ |
but it won't work for other mods! |
| 22:31 |
sapier |
but enough, you wont change your mind and I wont too so it's up to RealBadAngel's fix |
| 22:31 |
VanessaE_ |
that's my whole point |
| 22:32 |
sapier |
it's bad it's ugly it's most likely break something but it's gonna fix the heartbar |
| 22:32 |
sapier |
that's all desired and good this way |
| 22:35 |
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| 22:36 |
VanessaE_ |
with a sane default, it's unlikely to break anything that can't be fixed just as easily as your idea of forcing the coder to add a line of code (they could pad or scale their texture) but it makes it possible for texture pack authors like me to make much better textures. |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE_ |
THAT is the core of my argument |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE_ |
don't take away my ability to supply better artwork |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE_ |
s/better/alternative/ |
| 22:36 |
sapier |
my intention is keeping current behaviour and if we change it change it the right way not something wannabe correct |
| 22:38 |
VanessaE_ |
the current (without your patch) behavior is completely broken. With your patch is much better. With your patch and a sane default size for mods that havent |
| 22:38 |
VanessaE_ |
haven't been tweaked, is best. |
| 22:38 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, current behaviour is that you get used to a bug, pissed on tp creators and started to call it a feature |
| 22:39 |
sapier |
if you believe it to be wrong then fix it in a correct way |
| 22:40 |
VanessaE_ |
sapier: wtf? you just DID did it, jeez |
| 22:40 |
RealBadAngel |
all does, even c55 |
| 22:40 |
sapier |
not something it's wrong but because we're so nice guys we're gonna fix it for you how we believe it to be correct .. and if it's not we're gonna add a workaround for mod x and next time for mod y and then fog mod z |
| 22:40 |
RealBadAngel |
but not you |
| 22:40 |
VanessaE_ |
we're just trying to tell you that your fix needs to go one step farther, jeez |
| 22:40 |
VanessaE_ |
("did did it"? did FIX it) |
| 22:41 |
RealBadAngel |
and when c55 agrees that has to be xmas second time a year, so we have to celebrate |
| 22:42 |
sapier |
the only additional change I might agree is deprecate the old api and add a lua overlay printing a big fat error warning prior using some default value ... and then remove that default in, lets say about half a year |
| 22:42 |
RealBadAngel |
somethin like "sapier was here" for half a yr? |
| 22:43 |
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| 22:43 |
sapier |
enough, push your fix rba I'm done with it |
| 22:43 |
RealBadAngel |
cmon, stop being a stuborn |
| 22:43 |
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| 22:43 |
sapier |
no that damn ugly default value is what the whole discussion is about |
| 22:43 |
RealBadAngel |
its not a big deal after all |
| 22:44 |
RealBadAngel |
i can push right away fix that bring default behaviour back |
| 22:45 |
RealBadAngel |
i am polishing now code that adds (and uses) scale table with statbar |
| 22:45 |
sapier |
do what you want |
| 22:46 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, just calm down. |
| 22:46 |
sapier |
I can't tell anything about your fix as you don't publish it prior merge so I can only write issues after you've broken things |
| 22:46 |
RealBadAngel |
everything is ok |
| 22:47 |
sapier |
you know this is best way to really get kicked ass? |
| 22:50 |
RealBadAngel |
askin opponent to calm down? |
| 23:36 |
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| 23:47 |
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| 23:53 |
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| 23:57 |
* VanessaE_ |
pokes RealBadAngel |
