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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-04-28

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Time Nick Message
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08:52 celeron55 i wonder how the configuration saving should work
08:52 celeron55 currently Settings works so that if a setting is changed and saved, it will replace every occurrence of it in the file
08:53 celeron55 i had multiple iterations of a few settings in the file commented as being from different dates with the expectation that the earlier ones don't take effect (they don't) and the earlier ones won't be overwritten (they are) and that isn't doable now due to this
08:54 celeron55 i think it should only modify the last occurrence of a given setting in the file
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12:23 ShadowNinja Fix recursive node metadata fetching: http://sprunge.us/UZdb?diff
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15:43 Calinou doesn't the new-ish (since 0.4.4) default server step (0.1s) slow down stuff, compared to the older one (0.2s)?
15:43 Calinou especially when using mods
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16:21 sapier calinou 0.1 is less then 0.2 so I'd expect it to cause more cpu load but increase speed, of course if you already are at 100% load it wont have any effect
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16:30 rubenwardy I have fixed #1255, ShadowNinja
16:30 rubenwardy ( Add item eat callback - https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1255 )
16:39 Calinou do I need this in order to make eating play a sound?
16:39 Calinou or can I do this without the PR?
16:43 rubenwardy Calinou: you would need your mod to load before default, and override minetest.item_eat, or you need to go through and support foods like Better HUD does
16:43 rubenwardy ie: overriding the on use for eat food in a list
16:44 Calinou can I just add a sound_play thingy in the on_use function?
16:44 Calinou of the item
16:44 rubenwardy https://github.com/BlockMen/h​ud/blob/master/hunger.lua#L47
16:44 Calinou (I'd like different sounds per item)
16:44 rubenwardy You could, but you would have to make your own on_use, and not use minetest.item_eat
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17:25 Megaf Jordach: Why don't you use a good GNU/Linux distro? You use quite a lot of Open Source software already
17:26 Megaf install Debian Wheezy KDE and you will be fine
17:26 Megaf sorry, wrong channel again
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17:30 sfan5 http://sprunge.us/QCIa?diff
17:30 sfan5 comments please
17:31 VanessaE_ seriously?
17:32 sapier nope, I don't believe this to be correct sfan5
17:33 VanessaE_ (if that worked, you might just as well print "compiled with Win64 and GNU C" instead of a silly fish :P )
17:33 VanessaE_ oh, sapier, back for more I see? ;)
17:33 sapier can someone explain to me why I never hear to my own suggestions? ... hud code is fucked up to a degree it's unbelieveable, especially the way how it's transmitted to client
17:34 VanessaE_ sapier: because you always sign off right after you ask for suggestions :P
17:34 VanessaE_ also, RBA and I worked out an idea last night that should do
17:35 VanessaE_ not coded yet
17:35 VanessaE_ at least relative to our.....discussion last night :P
17:35 sapier ~tell ShadowNinja 706 is not ok
17:35 ShadowBot sapier: O.K.
17:35 sapier tell me about it VanessaE
17:36 Calinou sounds played in a particular position are very loud, compared to sounds played at player positions
17:37 VanessaE_ well it's more or less what we discussed, adding a flag to the statbar scale parameter. if absent, items are scaled to fit a fixed bounding box (fixed relative to the DPI and window size that is).  if present and set to true, items are displayed at their raw size
17:37 VanessaE_ that preserves the old behavior where it's needed, and fixes the scaling for everyone else
17:37 VanessaE_ should avoid breaking anything that can't be easily fixed.
17:38 VanessaE_ we didn't discuss any C++ --> Lua conversion of the default statbars though
17:38 Calinou we should migrate them, if they are client-side predicted?
17:39 sapier but we don't have a bounding box by now
17:40 VanessaE_ sapier: the discussion includes RBA's idea of patching it to include one
17:40 * VanessaE_ flashes her "Department of Redundancy Dept." badge  :P
17:40 sapier forget about it, I'm not gonna waste another 6h like yesterday if a proper fix can be done within 2h
17:42 VanessaE_ a proper fix must do three things:  Put the statbars in Lua, make them fit a fixed window-relative size regardless of the size of the textures that make them up -- by default that is, and provide for displaying them at any arbitrary size if and only if the modder explicitly wants that.
17:42 sapier and all except the pure lua statbar is already present
17:42 sapier yes 706 has a bug but thats a minor issue
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17:44 VanessaE_ 706?
17:44 sapier the patch adding size specification for statbars
17:45 VanessaE_ I don't see that here
17:45 sapier becaus it's been closed to to lack of attention
17:45 VanessaE_ oh derp, didn't check the closed items
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17:46 sapier it's abusing the scale parameter and uses wrong bounding rects but it's still the required feature
17:48 VanessaE_ well the problem RBA was trying to get across is that no matter how a mod specifies things, if a texture pack is supplied that the mod doesn't know about, that texture pack is guaranteed to break the layout of the screen if the statbar is not forced to fit a certain bounding box by default.
17:48 VanessaE_ and that's because the code here is relying on the x/y dimensions of the image, regardless of the image's source (which may be the client), to set the layout.
17:49 sapier vanessae the only difference between rba's suggestion and what I believe to be correct is rba wants a c++ hardcoded value for ALL statbars
17:49 VanessaE_ mm
17:49 VanessaE_ yeah
17:49 sapier I want the size to be specific PER statbar
17:50 sapier or none if it's not set
17:50 VanessaE_ we had settled on something roughly opposite of that after you left - statbar-specific sizes, but a variable has to BE set to enforce a size
17:51 VanessaE_ that way they'll all default to some sane size
17:51 VanessaE_ so that existing mods don't have to be changed
17:51 sapier well I don't care if that variable has to be set or not I just want it to be configurable for mods
17:51 sapier and not hardcoded in draw statbar c++ code
17:53 VanessaE_ it will be configurable
17:53 VanessaE_ the idea is that the statbar scale params will be used to adjust the overall size of the bar
17:54 VanessaE_ which will change the size of the bounding box also
17:54 sapier give me an hour and it's gonna be done, I don't wanna discuss another 6 hours about it like yesterday
17:55 VanessaE_ heh
17:55 VanessaE_ well just give RBA and I a chance to look it over ;)
17:55 VanessaE_ (you know me, I'll abuse the shit out of it, from a texture pack standpoint :P )
17:56 sapier I'll do it as a pull request as usually ... to give everyone chance to discuss another 10h about it
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17:56 VanessaE_ lol
17:57 sapier lua hud documentation is crap
17:58 sfan5 VanessaE_, sapier: yes that actually works
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18:03 sapier lua_api.txt does anyone have a suggestion how to improove lua_api.txt? I never find what I'm looking for in there
18:06 sfan5 so...
18:06 sfan5 can I merge http://sprunge.us/QCIa?diff ?
18:07 sapier not without someone confirming this is really required, it looks to weired to be true
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18:07 sfan5 I can confirm that this is required
18:07 sfan5 it's weird
18:07 sapier you're the one suggesting it ;-)
18:07 sfan5 but solves my problem
18:07 sfan5 well
18:08 sfan5 to confirm it you need to compile mingw64 yourself & build minetest for win64
18:08 sapier usually when I stumble uppon things like that I recognize some hours/days later I did something wrong
18:08 sfan5 ban.cpp hasn't been touches in 3 months
18:08 sfan5 when I add debug output it works
18:08 sapier I can't believe gcc fails for basic things like try catch handling
18:08 sfan5 without the debug output the catch() is somehow ignored and game.cpp catches the serializeerror and shows it to the usr
18:08 sfan5 user*
18:09 sapier as I said things like that usually are workarounds working for a single person only because they modify timing a little bit
18:10 sfan5 timing should not affect exceptions
18:10 sfan5 BlockMen reported the problem with my build too
18:10 sapier neither should text behind it do
18:10 sfan5 ik, but..
18:10 sapier imho there's something else wrong
18:11 sapier I believe the additional print just hides the real error
18:11 VanessaE_ isn't there some compiler directive that could be supplied there instead?
18:11 VanessaE_ (assuming it really IS just the compiler trying to be too smart?)
18:11 sfan5 I don't think so
18:11 sapier catch can't be optimized away that'd be a huge bug
18:11 sfan5 ik that too
18:11 sfan5 but ban.cpp has not been touched in 3 months
18:11 sfan5 and it was always working fine
18:12 sfan5 even in the other win64 builds
18:12 sapier that could tell it's been broken before too but something else did hide the bug
18:12 VanessaE_ sapier: it wouldn't be the first time I've seen a nasty compiler bug like that.
18:12 sfan5 uhh that is not possible
18:12 sapier no
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18:12 sfan5 only BanManager accesses ipban.txt
18:12 sfan5 there is no way the file could somehow get created before BanManager runs
18:13 VanessaE_ years ago gcc used to abort all the time with "bus error".  people blamed my hardware.  turned out to be some obscure bug in the compiler.
18:13 sapier that'd not be nasty that'd be horrific it's like compiler doing unsigned int  i = 1+1 --> i == 20
18:13 sfan5 that'd be a CPU bug then
18:14 sapier that reminds me of a situation where a file was created without the code beeing run that'd be supposed to create it
18:15 sapier it's been created because at a completely different location filename was read from a array with out of bounds index
18:15 sfan5 that is not the case here
18:15 sfan5 (assuming libstdc++ has no bugs)
18:16 sapier of course not, that's just an example for strange behaviour is usually caused by a real bug, some ones are easy to find, others are at completely different location then the fault occuring
18:16 sfan5 I'm not debugging this shit, at least not under windows
18:16 sapier and having to do a print to get an exception smells like later one
18:17 BlockMen sfan5, i can only confirm that you build crashed, not that it was caused by that
18:17 sfan5 BlockMen: it did crash with BanManager thingy, right?
18:17 sfan5 sapier: I have to do a print so the exception is not passed on level up
18:18 sapier that doesn't change the smell
18:18 BlockMen idk...look in the error log i gave you, sfan5
18:19 sfan5 you gave me an error log?
18:19 sfan5 22:07:34: ERROR[main]: BanManager::load(): Couldn't open file
18:19 sfan5 that happenening is impossible because BanManager:BanManager() should always catch the SerializationError
18:26 sapier unless it isn't a serialization error
18:27 sfan5 it is
18:27 sapier then there might be another path to get there
18:27 sfan5 right before that it says: ERROR[main]: A serialization error occurred:
18:28 sfan5 which is ONLY in a catch(SerializationError &e) block in game.cpp
18:28 sfan5 which is printed*
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18:30 RealBadAngel hi folks
18:30 sfan5 hi RealBadAngel
18:30 VanessaE_ hoi
18:30 VanessaE_ hi
18:31 RealBadAngel was thinkin about scale variable while at work, it is proper way to do that
18:32 sapier I'm almost done with it rba wait for about half an hour to an hour and you'll have a proper fix
18:32 RealBadAngel sapier, no no no. now you have to wait a bit more.
18:33 RealBadAngel you have waited already for almost a year
18:33 RealBadAngel you can wait a day more
18:33 sapier no I wont waste another 6 hours on discussing a 2h fix
18:34 RealBadAngel shall i paste what you have wrote yesterday?
18:34 RealBadAngel somethin like i wont work on hud anymore? :P
18:35 VanessaE_ RealBadAngel: check the -dev logs for the past ~2 hours
18:35 VanessaE_ we already chatted about this before you returned
18:36 VanessaE_ well past hour anyway
18:36 RealBadAngel just tell me, will texture packs work with it without any mods needed?
18:37 RealBadAngel if not i wont waste my time ;)
18:37 VanessaE_ if they don't, I will personally fly to Germany and kick Sapier's ass ;)
18:37 VanessaE_ (they will, I'm sure)
18:38 RealBadAngel if they wont i will send you extra leg for greater kickin effect ;)
18:39 VanessaE_ heh
18:39 * RealBadAngel fires up the logs
18:45 RealBadAngel sapier, i just hope that you are going to make texture packs work again without any mods needed
18:46 RealBadAngel if not, dont expect me to agree with your changes
18:59 sapier ok add another hour for fixing various bugs in number conversion
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19:16 RealBadAngel sapier, i do have proper fix for non-scalable version, with member variable and so
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19:19 RealBadAngel hi kaeza
19:19 kaeza hey RBA
19:19 RealBadAngel how ur distro is doing?
19:21 RealBadAngel youre the only one to have problems with non-moveable fog
19:22 RealBadAngel im still waiting for you to reproduce that issue
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19:22 VanessaE_ greetz kaeza
19:32 VanessaE_ sapier: do I need to go get my ass-kicking boots? ;)
19:32 sapier nope just some rounding issues hud designers didn't take care about
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19:43 RealBadAngel hi nore
19:43 nore hi
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19:43 RealBadAngel was the camera offset patch done by u?
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19:44 nore yep, why?
19:45 RealBadAngel you have broken waypoints with it
19:45 nore ah, didn't think to those when I did the code...
19:46 RealBadAngel some1 opened issued on it, hold on
19:47 RealBadAngel hmm, cant find it.
19:48 nore I think I had made the patch before that... but it was not merged until later
19:48 RealBadAngel VanessaE_, do you remember where was that?
19:49 VanessaE_ nope
19:49 VanessaE_ wait, yep:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1248
19:50 RealBadAngel ah yes
19:50 RealBadAngel nore, can u do something with that?
19:53 nore hud.cpp, line 277: v3f w_pos = e->world_pos * BS; <-- add the camera offset to that (don't remember how you can get it though)
19:54 RealBadAngel shit, hud.cpp again
19:54 RealBadAngel its a curse or what?
19:54 VanessaE_ <voice="Nelson"> ha, ha! </voice>
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19:55 RealBadAngel nore, where have you calculated that offset?
19:56 nore see camera.cpp
19:56 RealBadAngel ok
19:57 nore ah: camera.h, L87
19:58 nore you need to do some intToFloat(camera_offset, BS) after that too
20:00 RealBadAngel i guess we would need something like get_camera_pos
20:01 RealBadAngel that will take care of the offsets
20:02 nore (btw, you will need to subtract, not add the offset)
20:03 RealBadAngel could you add such method to camera?
20:05 nore why would it be needed? camera position should be internal-only...
20:05 RealBadAngel waypoints need it
20:06 RealBadAngel and are placed in hud code
20:08 RealBadAngel distnance to the waypoint from definition is camera_pos - player_pos
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20:26 BlockMen RealBadAngel, i dont know if get_camera_pos is an good idea (since the camera pos can be changed by lua and third person view also changes)
20:26 BlockMen so it would give you a wrong waypoint then
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21:04 RealBadAngel BlockMen, distance showed is the one between your eyes and set postion
21:05 RealBadAngel so everything that affects your eyes should be counted imho
21:06 BlockMen ah, so it uses players eye pos and not camera pos. well, its fine then i guess
21:07 RealBadAngel so, jumping, dogding dancing around changes the distance
21:09 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=010KyIQjkTk
21:09 RealBadAngel ;)
21:10 RealBadAngel in other words, distance should be show correctly no mather you do
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21:12 sapier can someone explain to me where breath is calculated? because to me it looks like client does calculate it and I can't really believe this
21:13 RealBadAngel sapier. ure timing out with the patch...
21:13 ShadowNinja sapier: It's client-side.
21:14 sapier true because of crazy things like that one ... why is this client side?
21:14 RealBadAngel im giving you half an hour before i push my own complete one
21:15 RealBadAngel so get ur ass tight
21:15 sapier do you have a pull request for it to be reviewed?
21:15 sapier if not get your ass up and do it like any reasonable developer would do for obviously controversial changes
21:16 RealBadAngel need a handy hand? most of the code was there since yesterday
21:17 RealBadAngel but yesterday you were dreamin about baloons
21:17 sapier if I wanted to do the ugly way I would've been finished about an hour ago
21:18 RealBadAngel im going out to buy something to eat, when im back i will paste you the changes
21:18 RealBadAngel 10-15 minutes
21:19 sapier I'm gonna revert your patch anyway if it's as broken as I believe it to be
21:19 RealBadAngel hehe
21:19 RealBadAngel i dont really want to compete
21:20 RealBadAngel i just want to get it done right
21:20 sapier And I don't want a broken fix
21:20 sapier seems to be same target
21:20 ShadowNinja Enough with the trash talk.  Just make pulls and have them reviewed.
21:20 RealBadAngel we will find a solution
21:28 sapier ok rba it's your decision get a pull request for heartbar as well as breath bar placed where they are now or wait another half an hour to get them dynamicaly placed based uppon dpi and user scale
21:31 RealBadAngel you mean push my own code or review yours?
21:32 sapier do what you want but if you push your code without review I'm gonna push mine that way too
21:32 RealBadAngel wait a bit them, im out now to buy somethin to eat
21:33 RealBadAngel and now, im really out
21:33 sapier as I said I'm gonna create a pull request
21:33 RealBadAngel go for it
21:34 RealBadAngel i will check it when im back
21:34 RealBadAngel 15-20 minutes
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21:36 RealBadAngel my gf is still dressing up
21:37 RealBadAngel can you link your code?
21:39 RealBadAngel sidenote, why girls are thinkin going out to buy frozen pizza or something is worth 30 minutes of getting ready?
21:41 cg72 because we need to always look our best for our men/other partner
21:41 cg72 lol
21:41 RealBadAngel pick the most frozen one from the frifge? lol
21:42 cg72 only if it has bacon on it hehe
21:44 sapier https://github.com/sapier/minete​st/tree/statbar_basesize_support it's yours to check while I'm doing the dpi based layout addon feature
21:44 cg72 wow thanks, but i doubt i can offer much help
21:45 cg72 lol opps wrong window
21:46 VanessaE_ sapier: s/luahud/Lua HUD/; s/uppon/upon/
21:46 sapier ok
21:48 sapier hmm I already have relative positions, additional adjustment doesn't make any sense
21:49 VanessaE_ sapier: this seems okay.  what happens if a size is not specified in the statbar setup?
21:49 sapier same as previous
21:49 VanessaE_ same as previous, meaning what?
21:49 sapier size of texture is used
21:49 VanessaE_ ew.
21:50 sapier that's how it's now and 100% compatible
21:50 VanessaE_ for the default ones, that'll work okay, as I can see you've already specified the size
21:50 VanessaE_ but what about other peoples' mods?
21:50 VanessaE_ those are still broken
21:50 VanessaE_ you need to include some sort of sane default
21:50 sapier those mods can either use their own textures or fix their mods
21:51 VanessaE_ those mods have no control over the *user's* texture packs though.
21:51 sapier if I add a default I'm gonna break mods relying on texture size if I don't I break the other ones, no matter what we do some mods will be broken
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21:51 VanessaE_ please, just put a sane default in there.
21:51 sapier I don't believe there is a sane default
21:51 VanessaE_ if mods rely on texture size to set the size of the hud, they're doing it wrong
21:51 VanessaE_ this is undefined behavior before
21:52 VanessaE_ it was never supposed to be like that was it?
21:52 VanessaE_ a sane default is whatever the default bars use, which now is 24
21:52 VanessaE_ (it was, btw, about 18px)
21:52 VanessaE_ (at least on my screen)
21:52 sapier old clients will still handle it that way why add some hidden parameters
21:53 VanessaE_ we don't need to care about old clients here
21:53 VanessaE_ not with a new release looming on the horizon
21:53 sapier what's benefit of changeing a behaviour?
21:53 sapier no matter what value will be default it's gonna be wrong
21:53 VanessaE_ the benefit is that, imho, less stuff will be broken with a sane default, and more texturability will be possible
21:54 VanessaE_ you are asking mod authors to change their code now to make texturability possible
21:54 sapier nothing more will be possible
21:54 VanessaE_ this is a point of failure
21:54 sapier it's the mod authors decision to write it that way I don't believe in telling them "but a statbar has to be 16px"
21:55 VanessaE_ nonono
21:55 VanessaE_ I'm not saying make it a "has to be" setting
21:55 VanessaE_ I'm saying make it a "if you don't change it, it'll be this" setting.
21:55 sapier but that's exactly what you do if you don't expect them to change their mods
21:55 VanessaE_ if a mod author is already coding something, they're not gonna have a problem adding another line of code
21:55 VanessaE_ but if they're *not*, then don't expect them to want to fix their code
21:56 VanessaE_ and I expect 99% of HUD-based mods won't need changed anyway
21:56 VanessaE_ they're gonna write their HUDs to integrate properly with the default ones
21:56 VanessaE_ no one wants their code to look out of place
21:57 VanessaE_ so maybe the default would be what you have now, 24px.
21:57 sapier no image in minetest does have a default size, no sprites, no imagebuttons nothing
21:57 sapier but for hud you believe it's a must have
21:57 VanessaE_ it must because it was always displayed at a predictable size before
21:57 VanessaE_ just like the hotbar had a more or less predictable size
21:58 sapier if you want this value to be set I'm gonna make it a mandatory parameter but I don't believe in hidden default parameters
21:58 VanessaE_ why do you call it hidden?
21:58 VanessaE_ that's stupid
21:58 sapier because it's not shown
21:58 VanessaE_ every system has hidden sane defaults.
21:58 sapier it's implicitly added that's what I call hidden parameter
21:59 VanessaE_ your car has a hidden sane default idle speed, but you don't see a setting for it do you?
21:59 sapier does every care have same idle speed? no, depends on the car(texture)
22:00 sapier imho fixing broken mods by adding a default parameter in core is wrong way to do it
22:00 VanessaE_ if you add a mandatory parameter, all of those mods become totally broken then don't they?
22:01 VanessaE_ I mean, what happens if this param is now mandatory but omitted?
22:01 sapier of course but that's better then adding a workaround to core
22:01 sapier and imho a default parameter for this is a workaround
22:02 VanessaE_ ok, but that doesn't answer my question
22:02 VanessaE_ if you made the size parameter mandatory, and some mod omits it, what happens then?
22:03 sapier if it's mandatory mods will immediatly crash and tell about it beeing broken
22:03 VanessaE_ the mod crashes? huge images?  pink fairies erupt out of RealBadAngel's ass, what?
22:03 VanessaE_ ew.
22:03 VanessaE_ that's even worse.
22:03 sapier mandatory is mandatory if it's not there it's a error
22:03 VanessaE_ well the problem you're completely ignoring is this:
22:03 VanessaE_ suppose for the moment:
22:04 VanessaE_ you push the code you just proposed.
22:04 VanessaE_ Joe Schmoe creates a nice texture pack that includes really good imagery for, let's say, that hunger mod and a few others out there that add more statbars.
22:05 VanessaE_ but his images are larger than the statbars were programmed for.
22:05 VanessaE_ BUT...
22:05 VanessaE_ his heart and bubble images work fine, because you programmed the statbars for those to be 24px.
22:05 sapier it's 16px ... looks strange for your own texture pack but that's something different
22:06 VanessaE_ Now Jane Q. Public the 3rd downloads Joe Schmoe's texture pack and one of these third party HUD mods.
22:06 VanessaE_ she sees the statbar for the hearts and bubbles look fine but the hunger bar spills off the screen.
22:06 VanessaE_ whose fault is it?
22:06 sapier hunger bar mod
22:06 VanessaE_ why is it the hunger bar mod's fault?
22:06 VanessaE_ you changed the API.
22:07 sapier no I didn't that's exactly what I tell about
22:07 VanessaE_ (in this hypothetical example that is)
22:07 ShadowNinja Hunger bar mod can't do anything about that.
22:07 sapier Lua hud was always done that texture size was stat bar size it's never been different
22:08 VanessaE_ actually strike that "you changed the API" part.
22:08 sapier ShadowNinja: after the suggested pull it can
22:08 VanessaE_ why is it the hunger bar mod author's fault?  he can't control what Joe Schmoe and jane Q. Public do on their computers.
22:08 ShadowNinja sapier: And if the developer is gone it crashes and is never fixed.
22:08 VanessaE_ shouldn't the engine take care of this?
22:09 sapier btw changeing lua hud api isn't an issue as it's defined to be experimental, still I don't believe in default paramters imho the only two options are either make that parameter mandatory or keep the current behaviour
22:09 VanessaE_ keeping the current behavior is right out.
22:09 VanessaE_ no fucking way.
22:09 sapier the engine is not supposed to fix mods
22:09 ShadowNinja Default parameters save typing and compatability.
22:09 VanessaE_ making that parameter is a bad idea because that changes the API for no good reason and breaks mods
22:10 sapier ShadowNinja: that's normal way of life for a mod if there are enough people interested in it it's gonna be fixed
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22:11 VanessaE_ sapier: all of my mods have sane defaults in them that can be overridden by user config options in minetest.conf or in mods that call their functions.
22:11 sapier ShadowNinja: if those parameters are neutral and don't change the behaviour that might be correct in some cases but it isn't for this one
22:11 VanessaE_ the whole point of sane defaults is to let you use fewer parameters to get the job done.
22:11 ShadowNinja I will not agree to breaking the API when you only need to add a default to keep compatibility.
22:12 sapier then add RBA's fix
22:13 VanessaE_ Add your fix and a sane default.  Jeez
22:13 sapier because my patch does keep current api
22:13 sapier the default parameter will break it
22:13 VanessaE_ a sane default would be "24" in this case
22:13 VanessaE_ better to break a mod such that it's just a visual glitch than to make it crash
22:13 VanessaE_ especially if it glitches such that the thing will probably still look and work just fine
22:14 sapier definitivly no this was all about avoiding that damn hardcoded default value
22:16 sapier RealBadAngel: you're free to merge your fix
22:16 VanessaE_ sapier: "hardcoded" implies "this value will be used everywhere and you're screwed if you wanna change it"
22:17 VanessaE_ whereas we're just talking about "this value will be used if you don't set one"
22:17 VanessaE_ hell, you could even put it right there in builtin
22:17 sapier what you want is a workaround for broken mods it's wrong to do this in core
22:17 VanessaE_ and pass it back to C++
22:20 VanessaE_ if you're so worried about the value being hard-coded in core, put a little wrapper in Lua that mods would call, have that pass the default value back to core to do the work, then it can be overridden in Lua if so desired.
22:21 VanessaE_ (obviously rename the core function so that the Lua one would be called instead, if that's possible.  you get my point)
22:21 sapier I wont change my mind about this beeing a workaround for mods and imho thats a big mistake
22:21 VanessaE_ it's not a workaround, it's calle dbackwards compatibility
22:21 VanessaE_ and there's nothing at all wrong with that
22:21 VanessaE_ before all this Lua HUD crap went in, it worked perfectly
22:21 VanessaE_ when the Lua HUD stuff went in, texture packs got busted.
22:22 sapier if you believe the old behaviour to be wrong fix it in a sane way by forcing the mods to update if you don't believe it to be wrong there's no reaso to change the existing behaviour
22:22 VanessaE_ the correct way, from the beginning would have been to put the HUD stuff in, with sane defaults for statbar sizes, unit counts, etc. so that with the fewest parameters possible, they'd end up looking like the heart bar.
22:23 sapier there haven't been any mod created statbars prior hud
22:23 VanessaE_ I know that.
22:23 VanessaE_ prior to HUD, there was just the heart bar.  and it just worked.
22:23 sapier there are no sane defaults, the only sane option is making those parameters mandatory
22:23 VanessaE_ when HUD went in, the heart bar got busted.  then the bubble bar got added -- in the now-busted state.
22:24 RealBadAngel prior to hud all the texture pack makers were screaming out loud why the statbars are broken
22:24 sapier we've got images in hud to let's make them default to 100x100
22:24 sapier RealBadAngel: add your fix
22:25 VanessaE_ sapier: no, add your fix with a default of "24".
22:25 VanessaE_ no one will complain but you.
22:25 sapier I wont do that
22:25 RealBadAngel hold on, im polishing that (i just got back from shopping with some frozen food)
22:26 RealBadAngel since the issue is yr old it can wait a few minutes more?
22:26 sapier I don't care, I'm just gonna write issues for everything you broke
22:27 VanessaE_ head --> desk
22:27 sapier why do you expect statbar to have a default size while nothing else has?
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22:28 VanessaE_ because statbars are the only thing on the Minetest screen that is not scaled to fit?
22:29 VanessaE_ well that and I guess the crosshair doesn't scale
22:29 sapier really?  are hud images scaled to fit something?
22:29 VanessaE_ they used to be.
22:30 sapier there haven't been any hud images prior Lua HUD and as of that time size is mandatory ... because there is no sane default
22:30 VanessaE_ before Lua HUD, they were scaled regardless of the size or source of the textures used to generate them.
22:30 VanessaE_ I used to have 128px heart images in HDX and they worked perfectly.
22:30 VanessaE_ (I eventually reduced them to 32px because 128px was excessive)
22:30 VanessaE_ when Lua HUD went in, even my 32px imagery was too big and I was forced to rescale them to 18px
22:31 sapier and they do work again, nothing is different to prior HUD addition except for those features added by Lua HUD wich will stay exactly as they are now
22:31 VanessaE_ yes, now with this patch you propose, it will work *for the default heart/bubble statbars*
22:31 VanessaE_ but it won't work for other mods!
22:31 sapier but enough, you wont change your mind and I wont too so it's up to RealBadAngel's fix
22:31 VanessaE_ that's my whole point
22:32 sapier it's bad it's ugly it's most likely break something but it's gonna fix the heartbar
22:32 sapier that's all desired and good this way
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22:36 VanessaE_ with a sane default, it's unlikely to break anything that can't be fixed just as easily as your idea of forcing the coder to add a line of code (they could pad or scale their texture) but it makes it possible for texture pack authors like me to make much better textures.
22:36 VanessaE_ THAT is the core of my argument
22:36 VanessaE_ don't take away my ability to supply better artwork
22:36 VanessaE_ s/better/alternative/
22:36 sapier my intention is keeping current behaviour and if we change it change it the right way not something wannabe correct
22:38 VanessaE_ the current (without your patch) behavior is completely broken.  With your patch is much better.  With your patch and a sane default size for mods that havent
22:38 VanessaE_ haven't been tweaked, is best.
22:38 RealBadAngel sapier, current behaviour is that you get used to a bug, pissed on tp creators and started to call it a feature
22:39 sapier if you believe it to be wrong then fix it in a correct way
22:40 VanessaE_ sapier: wtf?  you just DID did it, jeez
22:40 RealBadAngel all does, even c55
22:40 sapier not something it's wrong but because we're so nice guys we're gonna fix it for you how we believe it to be correct .. and if it's not we're gonna add a workaround for mod x and next time for mod y and then fog mod z
22:40 RealBadAngel but not you
22:40 VanessaE_ we're just trying to tell you that your fix needs to go one step farther, jeez
22:40 VanessaE_ ("did did it"?  did FIX it)
22:41 RealBadAngel and when c55 agrees that has to be xmas second time a year, so we have to celebrate
22:42 sapier the only additional change I might agree is deprecate the old api and add a lua overlay printing a big fat error warning prior using some default value ... and then remove that default in, lets say about half a year
22:42 RealBadAngel somethin like "sapier was here" for half a yr?
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22:43 sapier enough, push your fix rba I'm done with it
22:43 RealBadAngel cmon, stop being a stuborn
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22:43 sapier no that damn ugly default value is what the whole discussion is about
22:43 RealBadAngel its not a big deal after all
22:44 RealBadAngel i can push right away fix that bring default behaviour back
22:45 RealBadAngel i am polishing now code that adds (and uses) scale table with statbar
22:45 sapier do what you want
22:46 RealBadAngel sapier, just calm down.
22:46 sapier I can't tell anything about your fix as you don't publish it prior merge so I can only write issues after you've broken things
22:46 RealBadAngel everything is ok
22:47 sapier you know this is best way to really get kicked ass?
22:50 RealBadAngel askin opponent to calm down?
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23:57 * VanessaE_ pokes RealBadAngel

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