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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-03-14

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Time Nick Message
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00:48 ShadowNinja Is JsonCPP, JThread, util, and the scriptAPI ALWAYS rebuilt?
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04:48 Vanessa_E compile failure with latest git:
04:48 Vanessa_E http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7088312/
04:48 Vanessa_E ShadowNinja suggested some changes, but they did not help:
04:48 Vanessa_E http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7088322/
04:49 Vanessa_E (the added parenthesis around the "%" PRIxxx ", " parts)
04:49 Vanessa_E works for him with GCC 4.8.2, but does not work for me (4.6.3) or cheapie (4.8.1)
06:38 sfan5 ~tell sapier how did you compile openal for android? It always says snprintf missing for me
06:38 ShadowBot sfan5: O.K.
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10:14 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/169452978/buil​dlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.minetestc55_2014031404​11-0~2658~ubuntu13.10.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
10:14 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/commit/875f1327a47f78d783c3abc7f7ac​c3977dc286ec#commitcomment-5674238
10:15 xyz lol
10:15 xyz inttypes.h is c99
10:16 xyz and you code in c++ so you're supposed to use cinttypes right?
10:23 xyz either way there's no inttypes.h in c++03
10:24 xyz so plzfix
10:26 xyz and since this particular c++11 feature probably won't work on hmmmm's machine you're not allowed to use it
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12:29 xyz ~tell sapier nice, I didn't expect this from that lib at all; have you fixed the issue already btw?
12:29 ShadowBot xyz: O.K.
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15:25 ShadowNinja I'll revert that commin and add the extra long long cast.  (which doesn't officially exist in C++03 either, but is widely supported)
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16:17 proller ShadowNinja, https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/issues/59
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16:52 ShadowNinja proller: Well?  How is that helpfull?
16:53 ShadowNinja I've made serializeStructToString use an std::ostringstream.  Now to test...
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17:10 ShadowNinja Works, thoughts?  http://ix.io/b5d
17:10 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, + /diff
17:16 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Right.
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19:08 sapier ~ tell sfan5 yes openal as well as vorbis and ogg work
19:08 ShadowBot sapier: O.K.
19:09 sfan5 sapier: my question was how not whether
19:09 ShadowNinja sapier: You don't need tell when they're online and use a BNC.
19:09 sapier I didn't encounter that issue
19:09 sfan5 could you give me your compiled version then?
19:10 sapier openal did build quite soon ... would've been a matter of minutes if I did realize sound_openal.cpp isn't part of library but part of minetest ;-)
19:10 sapier I'm gonna push my branch in about 1 or two hours (needs a little bit of cleanup)
19:13 sapier but may I ask why you continue to work in parallel as my branch is already feature complete? I'm gonna start merge reviews to master quite soon. I'd prefere to have a merged variant by then instead of having multiple half grown parallel versions fighting against each other :-(
19:15 sapier I guess you've got some interesting things in your branch too so if you'd tell me where to look or even better if you did prepare them on your own we could have a android port ready for 0.4.10
19:17 sapier controls for example ... mine aren't perfect, yours aren't too so why not take best of both to get a really good control
19:17 sfan5 you can't mix those two controls
19:17 sfan5 well you can
19:17 sapier but if I do it on my own I could accidently merge worst of both ;-=
19:17 sfan5 but they are entirely different for selecting the node to point at
19:17 sfan5 also I am not working in paralell
19:17 sfan5 you use ndk-build as build system, right?
19:18 sapier partial
19:18 sfan5 what does 'partial' mean?
19:18 sapier I use plain make to get library depencencys
19:18 sapier as well as source code
19:19 sfan5 so yes
19:19 sfan5 I think it would be better if we use my solution
19:19 sapier cmake isn't capable or at least way to limited to do things like that
19:19 sapier well if you can explain to me how to use cmake to do those things I'm with oyu
19:19 sapier you
19:19 sfan5 that will make sure future build system changes (includes simple addition of .cpp files) works with android without extra things
19:20 sfan5 cmake is not supposed to dl/build libraries
19:20 sapier but we don't have just cpp files that's our problem
19:20 sfan5 that is what an additional .sh in util/ could do for android
19:20 sapier that's crap
19:20 sapier .sh files don't handle dependencys
19:20 sapier and are always broken if you need them
19:20 sfan5 wat
19:21 sfan5 your makefile is essentially a script too
19:21 sapier I don't wanna write a shell script handling "build irrlicht; build openal; build ogg; build leveldb; build ..." ... and detect changed files in there and and and
19:21 sapier that's what make is supposed to do
19:22 sapier and I want to be able to build and clean them separate
19:22 sfan5 >detect changes in there and and and
19:22 sapier every makefile system is some sort of script
19:22 sapier some provide more features others less
19:23 sfan5 well
19:23 sfan5 then use a makefile instead of a script
19:23 sapier cmake is a great buildsystem but tageted at a closed source package
19:23 sfan5 build systems are not supposed to download/build dependency libraries or have you ever seen autoconf downloading and building things for you?
19:23 sapier which we don't have we basicaly have some libs completely separate which do have their own build systems ... integration to cmake is quite waste of time
19:24 sapier yes :-)
19:24 sfan5 ok
19:24 sapier pciutils do so ;-)
19:24 sfan5 show me the project that uses autoconf(!) to dl & build libs
19:24 sapier the pci database
19:25 sapier I don't deny this is a little bit of abuse of makefile system but scripts are just too limited to do so
19:25 sfan5 !
19:25 sfan5 pciutils does not even use a build system (not one like cmake or autoconf)
19:25 sapier If you wanna implement all the dependency handling in your build script I'm fine with it too ;-)
19:26 celeron55 i know the issues with cmake, and the issues with scripts; but is there an actual issue with make?
19:26 sapier it's oldfashined
19:26 sapier and to be honest makefile dependencys are horrible to debug :)
19:27 sfan5 celeron55: would you prefer using cmake for the android port too? (or alternatively a makefile you need to manually update for each thing)
19:28 celeron55 of course cmake, but i'm assuming there is something that it can't handle
19:28 celeron55 what is that something?
19:28 sapier I'd prefere to cmake too but I don't wanna replace build of irrlicht leveldb curl openal-soft and ogg-vorbis ... and without doing so it's not gonna be consistent anyway
19:28 sfan5 sapier wants cmake to be like buildbot.sh
19:29 sapier no I'd be perfektly ok if it did only check dependencys correct
19:29 sapier but It can't even do that
19:29 sfan5 'check dependencys correct' please explain
19:29 sapier if we'd just have to do the download by script I'd instantly use cmake
19:30 sapier e.g. if I change a file in irrlicht code I want "make" to detect that irrlicht has to be rebuilt
19:30 sfan5 that is not what a build system is supposed to do
19:30 sapier that's exactly what a buildsystem is supposed to do
19:30 sfan5 no it isn't
19:30 celeron55 is it too much overhead if the script just attempts to build everything and then the sub-buildsystems will just say "nothing to do here, go on"
19:31 sfan5 a build system is supposed to configure the CURRENT project so that it will compile & work, it is not supposed to handle building every dependencie
19:31 sfan5 dependency*
19:31 sapier as of android port all of those libs are part of the CURRENT project none of them is really shared
19:32 celeron55 at work i have a project that is completely built by make, which also builds a dependency that uses cmake...
19:32 sapier I have already expressed my dislike of buildbot months ago because it doesn't build from source
19:32 celeron55 it's not that hard to do but debugging it is a pain like sapier said
19:32 sfan5 nonono
19:32 sfan5 current project is minetest(server)
19:32 sfan5 not a single other thing
19:33 sapier well sfan you may have noticed you can't build android port without s bunch of specially modified libraries
19:33 sapier so those special version get part of minetest
19:33 sfan5 what is specifically modified? (except irrlicht)
19:33 sfan5 which ones are*
19:33 sapier you may try to persuade google to merge them to android but I don't expect you to succeed
19:34 sfan5 ???????
19:34 sapier irrlicht, leveldb openal-soft ogg vorbis
19:34 sfan5 you needed to modify leveldb to make it build
19:34 sapier none of them are either part of android nor are they the official versions
19:34 sfan5 ogg and vorbis built fine for me too
19:34 sfan5 all of them from official sources
19:34 sapier at best you need only special versions prepared to use ndk build
19:35 sfan5 well
19:35 sfan5 I am not using ndk-build (aside from copying libminetest.so from ../bin to libs/armeabi)
19:35 sapier I don't think you did rewrite ndk build in cmake for all of them ... and if you did you're choped from update branch
19:36 sfan5 wat
19:36 sapier and not using the supplied build usualy results in usage of old versions ... see sqlite, lua jthread
19:36 sfan5 lemme explain:
19:36 sfan5 1) cmake is configured like usual with -DANDROID=1 , activates creation of libminetest.so in bin/
19:37 sfan5 2) ndk-build copies libminetest.so to the place where it would end up if we were using ndk-build to build the src
19:37 sfan5 3) ant debug can then make an .apk
19:37 sapier and how do you add irrlicht?
19:37 sfan5 by setting IRRLICHT_LIBRARY and IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR?
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19:38 sapier ok so you basicaly only cmakified minetest build
19:38 sfan5 yes.. well I stayed with cmake instead of using ndk-build
19:39 sapier ok then it's gonna be really easy to merge
19:39 sapier I'll just replace the minetest target in my makefile by your cmake build variant
19:40 sfan5 the makefile will go to util/ then
19:40 sapier so the outer makefile will take care about the dependencys and your cmake will build minetest package itself
19:40 sapier and we get rid of that crazy build/android subfolder too
19:40 sapier how do you build for different architectures in cmake?
19:41 sfan5 just set the compile
19:41 sapier can you do it at once?
19:41 sfan5 cmake-gui also lets you input an architecture but I don't think that is of any use
19:41 sfan5 yes
19:41 sapier all architectures in a single pass?
19:41 sfan5 see cmake command http://dev.minetest.net/Android#Minetest
19:41 sfan5 ..
19:41 sfan5 what?
19:41 sfan5 oh right, you may want armv6 and armv7-a
19:41 sfan5 no
19:42 sapier "which arm-linux-androideabi-gcc" are you serious?
19:42 sfan5 yes
19:42 sapier imho that's way to dangerous
19:42 sfan5 why?
19:42 sapier because you'll run in a lot of trouble about different compilers
19:43 sfan5 example please
19:44 sapier you use the non versioned symlink name only if you have multiple versions installed you never can't be sure about the current environemnt
19:44 sapier so sometimes this can be 4.6 4.4 4.8 ...
19:44 sfan5 why would I care about the compiler version one uses?
19:44 sapier imho you should exactly specify what ndk to use ... I've got 4 versions installed right now
19:45 celeron55 because in certain cases there isn't gcc
19:45 celeron55 there is only eg. gcc-4.8
19:45 sfan5 oh you mean that
19:45 sapier that's another issue too we may build using clang too
19:45 sfan5 sapier: I use the standalone toolchain
19:45 celeron55 but anyway, that's not an issue; it's just a matter of adding lines at the top of the makefile or script for easy changing
19:45 sapier well that's another point we shouldn't use a non official toolchain
19:45 celeron55 if someone is going to build for android, it's not like they expect it to work without any tweaking
19:46 sfan5 if you want clang set CC=clang CXX=clang++ and C_FLAGS=-arch armv6 -isysroot <sysroot> or something
19:46 sfan5 sapier: did you read? http://dev.minetest.net/Androi​d#Moving_away_from_Crystax_NDK
19:46 sapier yes I know you already want to get away from it
19:47 sapier well I really don't care what buildsystem is used for minetest engine as for android port minetest engine is just a subcomponent and not really usefull on it's own
19:48 sapier as long as it works ;-)
19:48 sapier I'm just gonna call make in minetest folder from a top makefile
19:54 sapier but what I don't wanna do is write cmake for irrlicht & co ... their make system has to be done by those products, I don't wanna merge it on each of their updates
19:56 sfan5 I'm not expecting you to do that
19:57 sapier well I don't wanna do this anyone else too as it'd be wasted time
19:57 sapier for minetest itself using cmake is perfectly fine
19:57 sfan5 that wording was unfortane
19:57 sfan5 I meant that it does not need to be done
19:57 sapier well at least if you do it right, meaning it needs to be done with official google ndk
19:58 sapier guess it's not gonna be to much of work to do so is it?
19:59 sfan5 what do you mean?
20:00 sapier right now you're still using crystax right?
20:00 sfan5 I am
20:01 sapier do you already have mixed java/c++ code for your branch?
20:02 sfan5 no
20:02 sapier hmm we should find how to do this with cmake first can you try it?
20:03 sfan5 how to do what?
20:03 sapier build a mixed apk ... I guess ant does this  but I'm not sure about it
20:04 sfan5 that'll work fine
20:04 sfan5 I just need ndk-build to either cp to libminetest.so or libminetest-eabiv7.so
20:05 sapier hmm so we need ndk-build to cp openal and libogg too?
20:05 sfan5 no
20:05 sfan5 .so's do not work out of the box
20:05 sapier they do
20:05 sfan5 you would need to load everthing step-for-step in java
20:06 sfan5 I mean if libmintest.so depends on other .so's
20:06 sfan5 that does not work
20:06 sapier yes you need to load them but they do work
20:06 sfan5 I tested it
20:06 sfan5 well
20:06 sfan5 I think that is inconvenient
20:06 sapier that's the only way to go for openal-soft
20:06 sfan5 and then we need another entry point to be called from hava
20:06 sfan5 you can always use static libraries
20:07 sapier they don't provide a static build ... and just to avoid a single System.LoadLib("openal") I'm not gonna rewrite their buldsys
20:08 sfan5 that rewrite you're talking about is about as much work as sed -e 's/shared/static/'
20:08 sapier nope
20:08 sapier already tried doesn't work
20:08 sfan5 doesn't
20:08 sfan5 error please
20:09 sfan5 s/doesn't/doesnt?/
20:09 sapier well the buildsys still tries to link something and fails due to unresolved symbols
20:09 sfan5 I'll take a look at that
20:10 sapier if it's not a one line change it's not worth the work as they most likely never will provide a static build ... they seem to believe their library is only meant to be used as shared lib
20:11 sapier And I don't se a reason why we shouldn't provide shared libs too, if there's a static build it's prefered of course
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20:13 sfan5 using shared libs adds trouble we won't have w/o them
20:14 sapier we provide the shared libs in our apk I don't see a way how this may cause trouble
20:14 sfan5 we need to load every lib using java
20:14 sapier we need to use java anyway
20:15 sfan5 no
20:15 sapier of course we do
20:15 sfan5 for what?
20:15 sfan5 the software keyboard can be shown completly using C(++)
20:15 sapier e.g. text input, asset copying, screen acces
20:15 sfan5 no, no, ????
20:16 sapier yes of course you can write 100 codes of unreadable buggy c++ code to avoid 3 lines of readable java code
20:16 sfan5 yeah .. mh
20:17 sfan5 but just because we use java already doesn't mean we should use even more
20:17 sapier jni is ugly as hell if you just pass parameters to java and code it in java it's at least readable ... if you read all those functions to c++ call them by textual names and anonymous parameters that's amost undebuggable
20:19 sapier sfan5 it's a single line ... if you really have that much spare time to spend to avoid it do it ;-) I'm not really motivated to change it ;-)
20:19 sfan5 I'll see whether it makes sense to do that or not
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20:20 sapier I'm more interested in having a clean updateable build which doesn't require a lots of manual tuning on each update of a base library
20:22 ShadowNinja If we have Java, I'd rather keep most of the Android-specific stuff like opening the keyboard in Java.
20:22 sapier already done
20:22 sapier I moved asset copying to java too
20:23 ShadowNinja Yes, I know.  Just stating my opinion of how it should be done.
20:23 sapier and added delta detection (yet buggy by now need to fix it)
20:26 celeron55 i also think android-specific things should be in java (note that android is not the only thing that has a touchscreen interface though)
20:26 sapier It'd be perfect that way but I don't se a way to get this done in a consistent way while using irrlicht
20:34 sapier celeron55 a full rebuild nothing to be done requires about 10 seconds with my top level buildfile where 8 seconds are spent for signing the apk ... no idea why this is always done
20:53 sapier sfan5 I just pushed my sound supporting version ... still android_1 branch
20:53 sfan5 ok
20:57 sapier as I said if we can avoid the build/android folder I'd fully support it ... but I'll wait till you switched to official ndk as I don't wanna switch to crystax just to switch to official right after it
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