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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-03-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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04:49 hmmmm https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/comm​it/2ad6e78d3be8c025722ffe0bd764860fa8c33389
04:49 hmmmm they can't do that
04:50 hmmmm anyway it seems like an attempt to stop us from backporting any bugfixes that xyz makes
04:54 darkrose actually they can do it, as LGPL 2.1 explicitely allows upgrading to GPL
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05:22 Tesseract Minetest was switched to LGPL from GPL before...
05:36 hmmmm not without the permission of all the other authors
06:10 ShadowNinja Yes.
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09:33 celeron55 GPL? well fuck that
09:33 celeron55 at least there's a reason to use minetest now even if you hate our way of merging things
09:34 specing Why did you switch to LGPL?
09:35 specing Minetest is not a library
09:35 celeron55 i would have switched to MIT/BSD if i could have
09:35 celeron55 it's the most free that was possible with the accumulated contributors
09:37 celeron55 there's no way in hell i would allow anything even a single bit more restrictive
09:39 specing GPL is much better than MIT/BSD, it gives me as a user all the right I want and as much rights to the authors as possible
09:40 specing BSD/MIT pretty much give the user everything
09:40 Calinou supporting GPL? here we go, specing!
09:40 specing YES
09:40 Calinou I thought you were BSD fanatic though
09:41 specing I doubt you would legally be able to do anything with those globeminner/android payed "we made it" clones if you switched to BSD/MIT
09:42 celeron55 of course i couldn't
09:42 Calinou they would even be legal, I think
09:42 specing All you could do would be sit down and cry
09:42 celeron55 i wouldn't care even now if people wouldn't have contributed that expect LGPL to be followed
09:44 specing Good thing your contributors care
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09:50 celeron55 it's mostly about the fact that if you make the license of a community project (where there is no central copyright authority) more restrictive, you lock down all the things you restricted your project away of for infinite time, with no way to get them back
09:51 Calinou you can change license?
09:51 specing what
09:52 specing all the stuff made under the GPL license can be ripped out and put into a different project under the GPL license
09:52 celeron55 it's only possible through the agreement of all copyright holders; there does not exist an agreement that would allow eg. me to change the licensing of minetest to whatever i want
09:52 celeron55 specing: and? that didn't change the license
09:52 celeron55 and you're stuck with the exact same limitations
09:52 Calinou CLA/copyright assignment
09:52 celeron55 with LGPL you have a bit of room to move around if you have to
09:53 Calinou you moved from GPL to LGPL fine, in the past, BTW ;)
09:53 specing sure, you can't take other people's work, close source it and start selling it under a different name
09:53 celeron55 Calinou: with the agreement of practically every contributor up to that point of time
09:53 celeron55 Calinou: it was a huge PITA and now there's like 100 times the contributors
09:53 specing What are these "limitations" of GPL you speak of?
09:53 celeron55 and really legally you are in a gray area even if one of them disagrees
09:54 specing ... because I really can't see any
09:56 celeron55 also, if a GPL fork of minetest becomes succesful, it's only possible due to the fact that the original had a permissive enough license originally; it could have as well been more restrictive than GPL, making it impossible
09:56 celeron55 i do not believe that GPL is some magic balance between permissiveness and nonpermissiveness
09:56 celeron55 there's no reason to believe that
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09:59 Calinou in practice there's almost never problems with GPL software, except obvious violations
09:59 Calinou (usually done by companies)
10:03 sapier gpl software especially libraries are defacto useless for any company not doing distribution work only
10:03 sapier in case you sell to usa with all those patent crap it's even more critical
10:04 sapier and I don't even wanna talk about gplv3 which is a nightmare because you can't even use your own "pseudopatents" to defend yourself in usa
10:04 sapier well I guess if there was any doubt about freeminers intentions they're settled down now
10:06 sapier at least I don't need to have a look if freeminer already fixed a problem in future :-)
10:08 sapier ciaranG I'm merging your abm fixes now
10:13 Calinou "defend" *cough*
10:14 sapier I'm not a friend of software patents imho they should be abolished but as long as americans are as crazy about them as they are you need to play their game or vanish
10:16 sapier https://github.com/Selat/minetest/commit/​c92ab934ce2bd5160c0747041cff8af6f987114c does anyone have concerns about this one?
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11:30 celeron55 seems fine
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13:01 xyz sapier: can you explain how you fixed SIGBUS issue with Android and async env?
13:03 sapier I don't have curl in there by now so I guess I wouldn't have stubled into this ... btw do you intend to release your fixes in a mt compatible way?
13:03 sapier +license
13:03 xyz what fixes?
13:04 sapier well freeminer switched to gplv3 meaning everything you push there is useless to minetest
13:05 sapier as  matter of fact it'd be even risky to have a look how things are done there on fixing mintest issues
13:05 xyz but it seems it should call asyncOnlineFavourites regardless of whether it's built with curl or not
13:05 xyz so what fixes are you talking about?
13:05 sapier generaly speaking
13:05 sapier most of the crashes resulted from androids broken wchar handling
13:06 sapier after fixing it all those "strange crashes" where gone
13:06 xyz that's only because you used official ndk, in crystax that I'm using there's nothing wrong with wchar
13:06 sapier well unofficial ndks are useless
13:07 sapier they stop support and what then? stay at antique version? create your own ndk ?
13:08 xyz yes that sucks
13:08 sapier maybe crystax isn't as clean as it seems to be about the wchar things too?
13:08 xyz because it already seems to be ded
13:08 xyz well, I'll try with official NDK
13:09 sapier as you are there how did you manage to integrate android code to ndk?
13:09 xyz btw, I don't like how you const wchar_t* wide_chars = L" !\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP​QRSTUVWXYZ[\\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~";
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13:10 sapier I don't like that code too but I didn't find a better way by now
13:10 xyz what do you mean by "android code"?
13:10 sapier that progress bar on copying files is native java code isn't it?
13:11 xyz check out $NDK/sources/android/support/README
13:11 xyz maybe it'll solve all wchar troubles
13:11 xyz ah yes it is
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13:11 sapier how did you manage to show it?
13:12 xyz it's set as the default activity and when it finishes it calls nativeactivity
13:13 sapier sad, I was hoping for a way to show java native ui elements from c++
13:14 sapier true that library could really help avoiding that hacky conversion
13:15 xyz you can do that too
13:15 xyz but you really don't want to do it
13:15 xyz trust me
13:15 sapier why not?
13:16 sapier I've seen the code to be crude but e.g. for text input I don't see a lot of different options
13:17 xyz because JNI calls
13:17 xyz every JNI call is like 10 lines of boilerplate and then it crashes in some random place
13:18 xyz so just have a part of it written in Java, it's the best way
13:18 sapier yes that's what I meant whith crude ... I already have that part, what I'm missing now is how to get that damn java code to my apk :-)
13:19 sapier I thought I'd just have to extend nativeactivity and then replace it in AndroidManifest ... but for some strange reason that doesn't have any effect
13:21 xyz you just put it into "src" and it just works
13:22 sapier as usuall this doesn't work for me for some strange reason ;-/
13:23 xyz that's bad
13:23 sapier I guess it's some silly mistake somewhere in config ... as alway
13:23 sapier s
13:26 sapier maybe it's related to using glue lib
13:38 sapier no it isn't ... seems ant ignores new files if you don't do a clean before
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21:44 sapier argh ... I start to understand why noone writes a single application in multiple languages
21:45 sapier android build now contains executable code in 3 languages ... java/c++/lua
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22:03 sapier celeron55 can you try if those new android style input dialogs work for you ? http://animalsmod.comuf.com/​downloads/Minetest-debug.apk
22:09 celeron55 they seem to
22:09 sapier the implementation is quite ugly now but I guess it's good enough to get some user feedback about this way of text input
22:10 celeron55 in a kind of non-tweaked way though; i'd expect to be able to press enter to accept a single-line field but instead it starts a new line in it (i have to close the keyboard and click the dialog button)
22:10 celeron55 (the button is behind the keyboard)
22:11 sapier hmm let me have a look if this is just a parameter of this dialog
22:11 celeron55 now i managed to do something so that the main menu is visible but takes no input whatsoever
22:11 celeron55 oh, the back button fixed it
22:11 celeron55 i wonder what that was
22:12 sapier text input is a separate (transparent) activity ... you managed to hide the dialog without closing it
22:12 celeron55 oh, apparently tapping the menu when the dialog is showing hides the dialog but the dialog still takes input
22:12 sapier that shouldn't happen but obviously I missed a case
22:13 sapier ok :-) sounds like the situation I missed :-) at least one of them
22:13 celeron55 anyway this is infinitely better than before (because i actually can input text now)
22:14 sapier good but it's a prototype only I didn't manage to call back to c++ from java by now ... no idea why but java always claims my jni function doesn't exist ... I even used javah to create the header from java code ... no success
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22:19 sapier works by polling the java part for closed dialog by now ;-)
22:19 celeron55 also it seems chat messages are sent twice
22:20 kahrl sapier: don't you need to static { System.loadLibrary("whatever_fi​le_the_native_part_is_in.so"); }?
22:20 sapier yes I discovered this too ... wonder if that bug is in master too :)
22:21 sapier kahrl I thought this is implicitly done by NativeActivity? my Java part is an extention to it
22:21 kahrl what is NativeActivity?
22:21 sapier sadly documentation for ndk <-> java is quite minor
22:21 kahrl oh, something android specific
22:21 kahrl no idea
22:21 sapier a class provided by android to directly create a Activity from a native lib
22:22 kahrl yeah I only used jni on windows so far
22:22 sapier I guess this class has something to do with the problem
22:22 sapier but I'd have to implement all the interfacing myself if I can't use it :-(
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23:03 sapier celeron55 the new version (same link) will exit input activity on clicking somewhere else as well as use "enter" to accept input
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23:21 ShadowNinja ~tell sapier The edit box is big and ugly.  Can you use a more modern android theme and remove extra bits like the window title?
23:21 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: O.K.
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