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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-01-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:02 ShadowNinja kahrl: Hehe.  :-P  That's pretty ridiculous.
02:03 ShadowNinja If you can't read past the first sentence you shouldn't be let near ANY code.
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03:01 ShadowNinja celeron55: Can you rebase set_sky/override_day_night_ratio?
03:02 VanessaE I can't really read that code, was my concern ever addressed about there being one "default, no mod needed" skybox?
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04:20 RealBadAngel if merging that code, there shall be added textureable sun/moon to make it complete
04:28 VanessaE YES
04:29 VanessaE bbl
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06:27 sfan5 ShadowNinja: good use? I couldn't think of any good use for getting the version of the server.
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14:41 ShadowNinja sfan5: For display.  You might be able to move the status string generation to Lua for example.  Or the CTCP VERSION thing, or a menu...
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19:05 xyz sapier: apparently serialization of functions doesn't work in luajit 2.0.0_beta7
19:05 xyz sapier: is it supposed to work with luajit at all?
19:11 elliot_ joined #minetest-dev
19:11 elliot_ Evening all :)
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19:16 ShadowNinja Hello elliot_!  This channel is strictly on-topic, #minetest is our social channel.
19:16 * specing changes topic to random chatter
19:18 elliot_ ShadowNinja: Okay :)
19:18 elliot_ I was just going to ask what made you guys choose Irrlicht over writing your own opengl rendering code?
19:19 sapier good question xyz I thought everyone except me uses luajit on regular base. I use 2.0.1
19:19 ShadowNinja You'd have to ask c55, although he regrets that decision now.  Irrlight does include some batteries to make things easier though.
19:21 elliot_ To me, voxel rendering ought to be it's own thing
19:22 elliot_ I haven't yet looked at the code, but I'm imagining a horrible for loop creating many cube objects...
19:23 sapier I suggest looking at code and make suggestions how to improve we know this code is suboptimal but by now noone really tried to improve it
19:23 ShadowNinja The rendering code isn't known for it's speed...  But you're welcome to improve it.
19:24 xyz sapier: so what will we do?
19:24 xyz I don't think serializing luajit function is a defined behavior
19:24 ShadowNinja However Minetest currently works with DirectX, you'd have to break that if you use OpenGL.
19:24 ShadowNinja (Or add a compat layer)
19:25 elliot_ I thought irrlicht is graphics API independent anyway?
19:25 sapier I don't se a reason why it shoudln't work, serialization doesn't use anything non standard compliant
19:25 ShadowNinja And OGL ES is needed for Android support.
19:25 sapier what exactly happens?
19:25 ShadowNinja elliot_: Yep.
19:25 xyz elliot_: irrlicht is good enough and there aren't many devs anyway
19:26 xyz sapier: the deserialized function returns nil
19:27 xyz http://lua-users.org/lists/​lua-l/2011-01/msg00255.html could be related
19:27 sapier what did you try to serialize?
19:27 sapier serializing will fail for anything containing minetest.*
19:28 xyz it happens in server list
19:28 xyz because you serialize functions here
19:28 xyz I don't know why you do that though
19:28 sapier ok so it's something quite simple
19:28 sapier because the server list needs to be fetched async in order to not stall the menu
19:29 sapier as everything doing network operation
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19:30 xyz yes, so what are we going to do about it?
19:30 sapier try to find out whats really wrong and fix it ... what else?
19:31 sapier shouldn't be that hard to find out why marshal returns nil on luajit
19:31 xyz what really wrong is — function serialization doesn't work
19:31 xyz for example, test.lua from marshal distribution fails
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19:32 xyz the message I linked to says "The attempts to marshal and unmarshal functions of course fail on LuaJIT 2" so I thought this behavior is not defined
19:32 sapier your bug report is almost as bad as "it doesn't work" ... I can't say what's wrong right now too but I we need a way better error report than this
19:33 sapier that's be a real problem as it would stop any attempts to do client side lua prior even starting
19:33 xyz ugh
19:33 xyz what else can I say?
19:33 xyz function serialization doesn't work
19:33 sapier I hope you're wrong
19:34 xyz and what you expect me to say?
19:34 ShadowNinja Why not just use a string and then loadstring() it?  You can use [[ ]] multi line quotes.
19:34 xyz bug report: there's a bug on line XXX in file ololo.cpp
19:34 xyz that's not how bug reports usually work
19:35 ShadowNinja That will mess up syntax highlighters, but it seems fine otherwise.
19:35 sapier might be an option ShadowNinja but very very ugly ... I'd prefere to find a solution to make serialization work
19:35 xyz well we can just say we don't support luajit versions lower than 2.0.2 and hope that this behavior is supposed to work
19:35 ShadowNinja And the Async API isn't usable by mods yet, so there's no need to work about compatability.
19:35 xyz since it works now
19:36 xyz with some versions of luajit
19:36 sapier xyz you're not a plain user ;-)
19:36 ShadowNinja Seems a lot simpler than marshal too.
19:36 sapier it works with 2.0.2?
19:36 xyz guess what!
19:37 xyz it does!
19:37 xyz also it's very strange that you don't use LuaJIT since you're the author of the most cpu-hungry mod
19:37 sapier oh, ok I didn't realize this before. Is there a way to check the luajit verison on startup?
19:37 ShadowNinja sapier: Not all that ugly.  Creating the function and serializing and deserializing it is a lot slower, depends on a external lib, and doesn't always work.
19:38 sapier well ShadowNinja if it's as simple as requireing 2.0.x (x yet to find out) I don't want to use any ugly hack
19:39 xyz we don't know, maybe we should ask people who do
19:39 xyz is that even supposed to work
19:39 sapier no shadow as we do only serialize/deserialize once on client connect ... network transmission is way slower
19:39 ShadowNinja sapier: But it's not a ugly hack.
19:39 sapier it is as you always have to escape your code which is quite a pain in the ass
19:40 ShadowNinja Only if you use [[ and ]] in your code.
19:40 sapier you can't use any ide support to find syntax errors ... just the first issue
19:40 ShadowNinja And you can easily add them after writing the function.
19:40 sapier WHY?
19:41 sapier if irrlicht is broken and can't display polygons do we switch to asciart for everyone?
19:42 ShadowNinja What?
19:42 xyz haha, that's so typical for this channel
19:42 sapier by now we only know luajit beta4 is broken ;-)
19:42 sapier is it really an issue if a beta version of an optional lib is broken?
19:42 ShadowNinja That's a rather obvious fallacy.
19:43 xyz sapier: well it's not really optional
19:43 ShadowNinja ^
19:43 sapier I'm sorry but imho we can't fix any bad thing in world
19:43 xyz it's automatically enabled when found and you can't disable it if it's found
19:43 xyz and yet
19:43 xyz you're missing the point, read my messages once again please
19:43 sapier ok then we could check if a working version is found too
19:44 xyz understanding is not very strong, I see
19:44 xyz well whatever
19:44 sapier I don't use luajit because it's useless to debug anything with luajit enabled
19:45 sapier maybe I don't understand because of two different converstions at same time ;-) ok back what's the point I missed?
19:46 sapier you can't disable it? who the hell changed this?
19:47 sapier how is debugging supposed to work? ... wait I forgot minetest programmers don't use debuggers :-)
19:47 xyz no, you didn't get it
19:47 xyz how about this
19:47 xyz you spend 5 minutes reading my messages and if you still can't understand it then I'll explain
19:48 ShadowNinja sapier: I fixed the C++ exception issue.
19:48 sapier I already said it doesn't work, you haven't been interested
19:49 sapier or did you do additional fixes recently?
19:49 ShadowNinja sapier: My patch?
19:49 sapier the one prior I told you assert() doesn't work and causes follow up exceptions hiding real issues?
19:50 ShadowNinja Because C++ exceptions in Lua -> C++ calls show up for me now.
19:50 sapier I'll try again later, but I don't have much hope It's going to work
19:51 ShadowNinja I don't know what you mean by that assert() sentence.
19:51 sapier just do assert(flase) in lua
19:51 sapier false
19:51 ShadowNinja My patch didn't add or remove assert()s, Lua or C++ side.
19:52 sapier ok xyz you thin serializing functions isn't defined ? it's as less defined as serializing in general.
19:52 sapier I didn't say you added it, assert(false) is a lua function call
19:52 ShadowNinja Yes, and?
19:52 xyz sapier: yes, I think it's possible that it's not defined for luajit for whatever reason, it's better to ask someone familiar with stuff
19:52 sapier if you use it in lua you actually expect to stop lua code immediately and see that state
19:53 sapier but that doesn't work
19:54 ShadowNinja Sounds like a Lua bug that I haven't experienced.  :-)
19:54 sapier if it doesn work for luajit 2.0.1 2.0.2 and all other "stable" versions why do you assume it's not "supported"  at all instead of the way more likely explanation "bug in 2.0.0 >>beta4<<". Do you have any other information that cause you thinking this?
19:56 sapier if it wasn't supported at all I'd expect it to fail in luajit beyond any fixability
19:56 ShadowNinja > assert(false) print("test") -> stdin:1: assertion failed! stack traceback: ...
19:57 ShadowNinja Same with non-JIT Lua.
19:57 sapier it failed for me in on step callback I'll check later. I'd be glad to be able to use luajit
19:57 ShadowNinja No "test" printed.
19:58 xyz sapier: read my messages once again and you'll find the truth
19:58 sapier and obviously I don't check every day if it works now
19:58 xyz sapier: why is this always happening when I chat to you? it seems to me as you're ignoring at least half of what I'm saying
19:58 sapier I'm sorry xyz, I don't know why I always missread your messages
19:59 sapier do you know anyone we could ask about it? maybe the one who wrote the marshalling code?
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19:59 xyz nope
19:59 xyz maybe we should open an issue as a question or something
20:00 sapier yes we could document which versions work in there too
20:01 sapier if it's really beta versions only I'd suggest fixing cmake to not support those versions. It's way more easy then any other solution. At least on debian that's not an issue as there ain't even a luajit package in repos. Does anyone know about other distributions?
20:02 Calinou no luajit package in debian? I have one on Ubuntu, so I would be surprised
20:02 Calinou do you mean in debian stable?
20:03 sapier yes
20:03 sapier another reason why I don't have luajit installed
20:03 sapier hmm ok so ubuntu has?
20:04 sapier what version is ubuntu luajit calinou?
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20:11 Calinou Version: 2.0.2+dfsg-1
20:11 Calinou in saucy
20:11 Calinou (libluajit-5.1-dev)
20:12 Calinou raring is dead, quantal will be dead soon
20:12 Calinou also look at http://packages.debian.org​/search?keywords=libluajit
20:12 sapier ok so I guess ubuntu based distributions wont be an issue
20:12 Calinou and http://packages.ubuntu.com​/search?keywords=libluajit
20:12 Calinou Debian testing looks fine too
20:12 Calinou and unstable
20:12 sapier jessie ... next version
20:13 sapier ok debian based is not an issue to as first you don't have to compile has a valid version and if you compile yourself you can choose a valid version
20:13 sapier what about redhat suse fedora and bsd?
20:17 sapier proller you have bsd what's bsd's luajit version?
20:17 xyz you're fun
20:18 sapier for what reason? what did I miss this time?
20:20 sapier xyz did you have time to look for other issues then the concurrent connect limit?
20:21 xyz nope, not interested
20:21 sapier anyone else?
20:22 Exio4 why is a concurrent connect limit an issue?
20:22 Exio4 some high value for avoiding random DoS seems a nice thing
20:23 ShadowNinja 8 should be plenty high.
20:23 sapier xyz and proller don't like it and vanessae doesn't care about it ... without anyone who want's it I will not spend time on persuading people to add it
20:24 ShadowNinja And maybe the default max_users should be bumped to 32 now.
20:24 ShadowNinja (Or something around there)
20:24 Exio4 you like base2 numbers, don't you? ;
20:24 Exio4 ;P*
20:24 sapier like any programmer ;-)
20:25 Exio4 true true
20:25 sapier maybe not lua and java programmers :)
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20:25 ShadowNinja Yep. :-)
20:25 Exio4 probably
20:25 sapier or perl ... guess the vm programmers don't care about 2
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20:32 sapier xyz I may have missed it but for what reason did you choose 2.0.0beta4?
20:32 sapier pure chance or is there something wrong with later versions?
20:32 xyz sapier: I didn't, also it's beta7, not 4
20:32 sapier ok why beta7?
20:33 xyz one FM user reported this issue
20:33 sapier I see
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20:43 ShadowNinja Wouldn't max_lag be a better value to announce as lag than the step time?
20:44 sapier Can someone explain to me what max lag is supposed to be?
20:45 PilzAdam sapier, AFAIK its the time spend in Lua code
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20:47 ShadowNinja sapier: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6845876/
20:48 ShadowNinja Basically dtime that decreases only slowly.
20:49 sapier1 hmm ok guess we need to think about this way of determine lag later as it doesn't honor network lag
20:51 Calinou sapier, a lot of desktop users use Jessie already, not necessarily a bad choice.
20:51 Calinou some server users do too.
20:51 Calinou but not much
20:52 Calinou https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgd​b/acls/name/luajit?_csrf_token=be21c​e0f2450c29ae4d69bf0fd47d352f701f382 ?
20:52 Calinou for fedora
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22:11 Sokomine hmmmm: are you there?
22:12 Sokomine or, more general map-related question: blocks consisting solely of air. do they take up storage space?
22:17 xyz yes
22:24 ShadowNinja ^ But they're zlib compressed, so they should be pretty small.
22:26 xyz that too
22:39 ShadowNinja This happens an awfull lot, usually in pairs: collisionMoveSimple: WARNING: maximum step interval exceeded, lost movement details!
22:43 hmmmm perhaps that has something to do with lagging
22:56 Sokomine ShadowNinja: i just got afraid because a player sounded as if he intended to map out the entire map :-)
22:57 Sokomine fortionately, he later explained that his mapping-bot sticks to ground level; that seems far less threatening
22:57 Sokomine ShadowNinja: with mobs running around?
22:59 NakedFury https://www.humblebundle.com/weekly?utm_source=Hu​mble+Weekly+Sale+Newsletter&amp;utm_campaign=8210​7c4317-newsletter_codemasters&amp;utm_medium=emai​l&amp;utm_term=0_a406d06e11-82107c4317-108957521
23:08 sapier ShadowNinja for some reason your server step is laging way to bad
23:08 sapier that warning is in collision handling to avoid collision handling killing your server by adding even more lag based uppon huge steps
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23:22 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1116 final call for review and comments, I squashed and cleaned this one in order to merge it this weekend
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23:52 proller NOOOOOOOOOO

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