| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:02 |
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| 01:08 |
VanessaE |
proller: *poke* |
| 01:32 |
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| 01:35 |
us_0gb |
If I can put it on a free network such as Identica instead of Google+ or Facebook, I'll manage the social site page if no one more qualified wants to. |
| 01:37 |
us_0gb |
It would give me a chance to actually be useful around here. |
| 02:06 |
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| 02:20 |
ShadowNinja |
I've been managing the Google+ page so far, but I don't have a FB or twitter account, and don't want one... |
| 02:21 |
ShadowNinja |
s/so far/recently/ |
| 02:22 |
ShadowNinja |
I find it odd that MineCraft server pages are adding Minetest to their "circles"... |
| 02:25 |
hmmmm |
you know |
| 02:25 |
hmmmm |
I tried out that emergethread delay thing and there's literally no noticable difference |
| 02:26 |
us_0gb |
I deleted my Facebook account when Facebook insisted that I hand over my cell phone number. I don't even have a cell phone. I did the same when Google+ demanded my cell phone number as well. My Twitter account still exists though. |
| 02:26 |
us_0gb |
THat is odd about the MineCraft server pages ... |
| 02:27 |
ShadowNinja |
But -> #minetest |
| 02:31 |
ShadowNinja |
Should I ad sub-sections to the organization page? Eg, sapier is in charge of the MainMenu, which is part of ScriptAPI. And "low-level network" should just be "Network", unless we add a high-level section (which should probably be subsections of network actually). Then kahr| can be manager of the HTTPFetch section of network, since he wrote it. |
| 02:34 |
hmmmm |
ah |
| 02:34 |
hmmmm |
with regard to what I just said, that's because the first dtime of the server step is exactly 2.0 |
| 02:36 |
hmmmm |
this is because dedicated_server_loop is running continuously while everything else warms up and keeps calling Server::step |
| 02:36 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, please do take a look at 1112 and 1117 if theyre good to go in your opinion. |
| 02:36 |
hmmmm |
m_step_time keeps getting incremented and it's really big by the time the first AsyncRunStep gets called |
| 02:36 |
hmmmm |
and thus gets limited to 2.0 |
| 02:40 |
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| 02:44 |
xyz |
hmmmm: yup, that's probably not an issue for mt since the client takes more than 2 seconds to connect to minimal localhost game anyway |
| 02:45 |
hmmmm |
but i still think emergethreads should be started as soon as the environment gets initialized |
| 02:45 |
hmmmm |
i'll make an elegant fix |
| 02:55 |
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| 03:05 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6818037/ |
| 03:05 |
VanessaE |
one of my servers just crashed with this: |
| 03:09 |
xyz |
was the core dumped? |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
not that it indicated. |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
(as many times as I've seen processes indicate that they've dumped core, I rarely ever see said core dump end up anywhere) |
| 03:12 |
xyz |
what does `ulimit -c` say btw? |
| 03:15 |
VanessaE |
0. |
| 03:16 |
xyz |
well you may want to set it to some value, like `ulimit -c unlimited`, to get core dumps in the future |
| 03:18 |
xyz |
that value is per-shell iirc so you will have to do something else if you want it to be applied automatically |
| 03:19 |
VanessaE |
hm, ok. first time in years I've had to mess with that value. I never touch it under normal circumstances. |
| 03:23 |
xyz |
maybe minetest could set the value itself when debug_log_level is high enough |
| 03:45 |
hmmmm |
nevermind that |
| 03:45 |
hmmmm |
it's just impossible to figure out what went wrong |
| 03:46 |
hmmmm |
STL containers are pretty opaque like that |
| 03:47 |
hmmmm |
you know how everybody jokes that when something screws up with C++ and you can't fix it? this is one of those times. i assume the std::list<v3s16>::clear() that it talks about was called in a destructor when it fell out of scope |
| 03:47 |
hmmmm |
so somewhere along the line that list got..... corrupted, somehow |
| 03:48 |
hmmmm |
in particular it's 'list' at server.cpp:310 that was corrupted somehow |
| 03:49 |
VanessaE |
well if this helps any, http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html |
| 03:49 |
VanessaE |
you can see how the server was performing overall at the time |
| 03:50 |
VanessaE |
looks like it restarted precisely at 10:00pm |
| 03:50 |
VanessaE |
that's... kinda odd. |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
that doesn't really help |
| 03:50 |
VanessaE |
didn't think so |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
for all we know it could've been a cosmic ray that corrupted your memory |
| 03:51 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 04:45 |
hmmmm |
we should change LOG(a) in connection.cpp to a no-op at some point |
| 04:48 |
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| 04:54 |
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| 05:44 |
hmmmm |
hmm, sapier, having runningmutex around JThread::IsRunning and JThread::StopRequested are both ineffectual and unnecessary |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
ineffectual, because by the time the function returns and the expression is evaluated and a decision is made, the state of the thread may have changed |
| 05:45 |
hmmmm |
unnecessary, because in both cases there is no timing-critical code that would ever depend on knowing the exact state of, say, StopRequested because it would just loop around again and check it another time |
| 05:47 |
hmmmm |
in fact, the only time you'd need to lock a variable query is when the copy is performed on multiple words and a writer changes the contents of the variable while it's being read |
| 06:07 |
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| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/9b978db0c2578b06c5669096e325c1ce70864edc |
| 06:19 |
nore |
any thoughts about changing pointed_thing to add a third position, which would be the position of the intersection of the ray with the node? |
| 06:24 |
nore |
it looks like #944 and #1115 are basically the same issues... |
| 07:31 |
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| 10:24 |
nore |
any thoughts on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1119 ? |
| 10:39 |
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| 12:55 |
VanessaE |
I don't know if this is an upgrade or a downgrade, but gold has gone from being "American cheese" to "butter"... |
| 12:56 |
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RealBadAngel |
celeron55, youre here? |
| 14:10 |
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| 16:02 |
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| 16:03 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1120 fixes a bug in unreliable packet handling causing major penalty for unreliable packets |
| 16:05 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1121 makes minetest transmit textures in single player as fast as on a server with ~15 players online ... in current version textures are sent FASTER on more players are online :) |
| 16:08 |
nore |
any thoughts on #1119? |
| 16:08 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1119 -- Fix rendering glitches when far from the center of the map by Novatux |
| 16:10 |
sapier |
can you explain what this is supposed to do? |
| 16:12 |
nore |
sapier, yes, it fixes the fact that you get flickering nodeboxes, etc when you're further than +-1000 |
| 16:12 |
nore |
+0 |
| 16:13 |
sapier |
ok let me be more precise :-) how is it supposed to fix it? I see a offset but I don't understand why adding a offset fixes it? |
| 16:14 |
nore |
sapier, the camera is always kept near (0, 0, 0) |
| 16:14 |
sapier |
ok |
| 16:14 |
nore |
camera coordinates are never higher than 200 |
| 16:14 |
nore |
and the bug was because of floating point errors |
| 16:14 |
nore |
(rounding) |
| 16:15 |
sapier |
wait prior your changes the camera itself was moved ... true? |
| 16:15 |
nore |
now, it is moved too (for performance) |
| 16:16 |
nore |
but when one of its coordinates gets above 200, it is moved back |
| 16:16 |
nore |
and all visuals are translated |
| 16:17 |
sapier |
sounds reasonable ... where's the 200 from? |
| 16:17 |
sapier |
why not 50 or 5000? |
| 16:17 |
nore |
well, it is a #define |
| 16:18 |
nore |
50 is too low, causes too many updates (the map blinks for a fraction of a second when that happens) |
| 16:18 |
sapier |
would there be any benefit/penalty from doing it more/less often? |
| 16:18 |
nore |
5000 is too high, you'll get rendering glitches as well |
| 16:18 |
nore |
^ there you have the answer |
| 16:19 |
sapier |
thought the rendering glitches have been near corner of map only? |
| 16:19 |
sapier |
why does it happen on 5000? |
| 16:19 |
nore |
same problem: you're 3x less far, so the glitches are 3x less important, but they are still important |
| 16:20 |
nore |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1093#issuecomment-32012342 |
| 16:21 |
sapier |
so basicaly it's "smaller -> more map flickering due to translation switches ... bigger --> more glitches" ... and somewhere in between a sweet spot where non of those issues is really a problem |
| 16:22 |
nore |
yep... 200 works well to avoid problems |
| 16:22 |
sapier |
is this number dependent to cpu/graphics speed? |
| 16:23 |
nore |
no... I guess the flickering is only 1 frame long, and the glitches are caused by doubles internal to Irrlicht |
| 16:24 |
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| 16:25 |
sapier |
ok ... I guess this could be a valid solution of those issues |
| 16:27 |
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| 16:27 |
nore |
celeron55, is that pull request ok? (since you're the maintainer of audiovisuals...) |
| 16:27 |
hmmmm |
ouch |
| 16:27 |
hmmmm |
nice job on #1120, how'd you find that at first? |
| 16:27 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1120 -- Fix bug only half of unreliable queue handled per step in worst case by sapier |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
do I want 1120 then? |
| 16:28 |
hmmmm |
anyway why don't people just commit instead of making a pull request and everything for something like that |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: 2-devs-must-agree.... |
| 16:28 |
hmmmm |
it seems like we have a lot of commits flying around but nothing being pushed to upstream |
| 16:29 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE, not necessarily, I spoke about that a lot |
| 16:29 |
RealBadAngel |
i keep asking for my commits for a week already... |
| 16:29 |
nore |
(and sapier is the maintainer of network, so I guess he doesn't need to ask...) |
| 16:29 |
VanessaE |
well sapier and I have been conversing a lot about this emergethread/network hangup with >15-odd players, and it strikes my almost-vanilla server hard |
| 16:30 |
hmmmm |
ahh |
| 16:30 |
VanessaE |
we're both pretty sure it isn't hardware-bound. |
| 16:30 |
sapier |
:-) true I just wanted to push #1120 separate as it's really uncritical |
| 16:30 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1120 -- Fix bug only half of unreliable queue handled per step in worst case by sapier |
| 16:30 |
VanessaE |
hence my question if 1120 is the proposed solution |
| 16:30 |
hmmmm |
erm |
| 16:30 |
RealBadAngel |
and tommorow my week off ends so i wont be able even be around to ask for anything |
| 16:30 |
hmmmm |
that is pretty critical if you ask me |
| 16:30 |
sapier |
1121 isn't as uncritical |
| 16:30 |
hmmmm |
RealBadAngel, what are your commits? |
| 16:30 |
RealBadAngel |
waypoints and some shaders code |
| 16:30 |
sapier |
uncritical as in "will most likely not break anything" |
| 16:30 |
hmmmm |
god dammit sapier! |
| 16:31 |
RealBadAngel |
#1112 and #1117 |
| 16:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1112 -- New HUD element - waypoint. by RealBadAngel |
| 16:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1117 -- Normal maps generation on the fly. by RealBadAngel |
| 16:31 |
hmmmm |
RealBadAngel, the waypoint stuff is fine like I was saying before |
| 16:31 |
hmmmm |
the shader code is likely to break graphics on *somebody's* machine |
| 16:31 |
hmmmm |
it's a rule of thumb |
| 16:32 |
sapier |
RealBadAngel: do you want to merge first or wait till I merged 1120 |
| 16:32 |
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| 16:32 |
RealBadAngel |
1120 has no common files with my commits |
| 16:33 |
nore |
RealBadAngel, about the generate_normalmap thing: I'd like if you added some option to avoid using another texture to signal the use of normalmap (since multiple textures don't work on some GPUs) |
| 16:33 |
hmmmm |
holy crap |
| 16:33 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmm, to fix unkown errors i have to see them in action ;) that wont happen if nobody is allowed to try the code |
| 16:33 |
hmmmm |
the normalmap generation is pretty intensive looking |
| 16:33 |
hmmmm |
is that run for each pixel?? |
| 16:34 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 16:34 |
sapier |
I intend to merge #862 next any comments? |
| 16:34 |
ShadowBot |
sapier: Error: ProcessTimeoutError: Process #18 (for String.re) aborted due to timeout. |
| 16:34 |
nore |
hmmmm, at least with what I tried it was a fps-killer |
| 16:34 |
hmmmm |
no doubt |
| 16:34 |
RealBadAngel |
nore, theres no way to achieve that in current irrlicht |
| 16:34 |
RealBadAngel |
in 1.9 there will be a way to do so |
| 16:34 |
nore |
RealBadAngel, why? use #define as before... |
| 16:34 |
sapier |
hmm ShadowBot seems to have issues right now :-) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/862/ |
| 16:35 |
RealBadAngel |
no way, that has to be an attribute, different for each shaders instance |
| 16:35 |
hmmmm |
RealBadAngel, you should look into convoluting a faster blur several times to get the sameish effect |
| 16:35 |
RealBadAngel |
define is global |
| 16:35 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmm on my low end machine i do get 20+ fps |
| 16:36 |
RealBadAngel |
with all the effects turned on |
| 16:36 |
hmmmm |
i know but it could be better |
| 16:36 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc it propably could |
| 16:36 |
RealBadAngel |
as with any code |
| 16:36 |
hmmmm |
the blur does not need to FMA all of the surrounding pixels |
| 16:36 |
nore |
RealBadAngel, yes, so it would be for all textures |
| 16:36 |
RealBadAngel |
nore, youre wrong |
| 16:36 |
RealBadAngel |
define is per shader code, compiled once |
| 16:36 |
hmmmm |
have a flat kernel instead with all elements 1/9th or something |
| 16:36 |
RealBadAngel |
not per its use |
| 16:37 |
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| 16:37 |
hmmmm |
and then + (next pixel / 9) onto an accumulator |
| 16:37 |
nore |
yes: for every texture the normalmaps would be applied |
| 16:37 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmm, cannot have another kernel for the effect that uses a kernel |
| 16:37 |
hmmmm |
then subtract (last pixel / 9) when going onto the next |
| 16:37 |
RealBadAngel |
that is a definition of this effect |
| 16:37 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean the kernel |
| 16:37 |
RealBadAngel |
with different kernels you can get another effects |
| 16:38 |
nore |
or the other possibility would be to do as with the leaves, etc |
| 16:38 |
RealBadAngel |
that particular one is to get the one i made |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
yeah but my point is that nothing in minetest is 100%, because it's a game we're going to have to sacrifice some quality by doing a close approximation to get a respectable amount of speed |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
maybe that could be the "maximum quality" version |
| 16:38 |
RealBadAngel |
first of all, shaders are meant for better machines |
| 16:38 |
RealBadAngel |
and are an option |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
yeah but it doesn't have to be all or nothing |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
you could have several levels of quality |
| 16:39 |
RealBadAngel |
ofc it doesnt mean that |
| 16:39 |
RealBadAngel |
but if you have good enough GPU you can use it to get such effects |
| 16:39 |
hmmmm |
ugh whatever, fine commit it |
| 16:39 |
hmmmm |
just don't be surprised if nobody uses this new feature but you |
| 16:39 |
RealBadAngel |
fyi, minecraft is also using such kernels with much more effects aviable |
| 16:40 |
RealBadAngel |
about 20 different kernels |
| 16:40 |
RealBadAngel |
wanna see? |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
are you saying minecraft? or do you mean one of those minecraft mods |
| 16:40 |
RealBadAngel |
no, i mean minecraft |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
i forget what it's called but it has a ton of shader effects |
| 16:40 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean vanilla |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
vanilla minecraft doesn't have fancy effects like that |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
there's no way |
| 16:40 |
RealBadAngel |
wanna bet? |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
if it did we'd notice it |
| 16:42 |
nore |
RealBadAngel, please add an option anyway to enable normalmaps for everything and avoid using another texture |
| 16:42 |
RealBadAngel |
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Shaders |
| 16:42 |
hmmmm |
but i think that normalmap generation in the shader is kinda dumb |
| 16:42 |
hmmmm |
requiring a separate normalmap along with the textures is the only way to go |
| 16:42 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, see above |
| 16:43 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmm, why dont you try the code with 16x textures? |
| 16:44 |
hmmmm |
well what's wrong with generating the normalmap from within the core on load if it can't find one but it wants one |
| 16:44 |
RealBadAngel |
http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/minecraft.gamepedia.com/9/9e/Bumpy.png |
| 16:44 |
nore |
hmmmm, there is one problem, which is that some GPUs don't support multiple textures |
| 16:45 |
nore |
however, with the current way it is done, those GPUs can't use the feature since it also uses 1px texture to say if normalmaps should be enabled |
| 16:45 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/7RBAeuE.jpg |
| 16:45 |
RealBadAngel |
nore, not gpus.... |
| 16:45 |
RealBadAngel |
youre talkin bout drivers... |
| 16:46 |
nore |
s/GPUs/drivers in everything I said then ;) |
| 16:46 |
RealBadAngel |
OpenGL ES |
| 16:46 |
RealBadAngel |
that is what doesnt support multitexturing... |
| 16:46 |
hmmmm |
RealBadAngel, those shaders included with minecraft nobody uses |
| 16:46 |
RealBadAngel |
theyre in testing phase |
| 16:46 |
hmmmm |
and a lot of the effects are kinda dumb looking and easy to write anyway |
| 16:47 |
hmmmm |
imo |
| 16:47 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 16:47 |
RealBadAngel |
but the particular one i made is not dumb at all |
| 16:48 |
RealBadAngel |
it allows to have it all bumped without any effort, and for all default textures |
| 16:48 |
hmmmm |
it's equivalent to the Bumpy one on the minecraft page |
| 16:48 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 16:50 |
RealBadAngel |
and i repeat, if a few yrs old machine is capable of running it, its ok imho |
| 16:51 |
hmmmm |
w/e |
| 16:53 |
RealBadAngel |
can you try it also? |
| 16:53 |
hmmmm |
not right now |
| 16:55 |
RealBadAngel |
but anyway i think you gave me an idea about it, im gonna try also another approach |
| 16:59 |
RealBadAngel |
nore, anyway normalmap is also a texture bound to shaders sampler. so 2 sampler or 3, doesnt matter |
| 17:00 |
RealBadAngel |
it will be always more than 1 |
| 17:01 |
RealBadAngel |
ive seen a topic somwhere that mt were trying to use ES instead of regular OpenGL |
| 17:03 |
proller |
any android port use ES |
| 17:03 |
VanessaE |
a/any/any illegal/ |
| 17:04 |
VanessaE |
who gives two shits what android does IF IT ISN'T A LEGIT PORT> |
| 17:05 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmm, btw terasology is using similar shader to outline the world |
| 17:05 |
RealBadAngel |
and in fact is using way more heavier effects we do |
| 17:06 |
RealBadAngel |
that bumpy thingy is nothing comparing to what terasology does |
| 17:06 |
RealBadAngel |
also SEUS shaders mod for mc |
| 17:08 |
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| 17:10 |
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| 17:11 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1122 minetest.kick_player(name,message) |
| 17:14 |
hmmmm |
sapier, did you see what i said about JThread::IsRunning last night? |
| 17:15 |
sapier |
no not yet |
| 17:20 |
sapier |
you're right, we can't avoid running beeing wrong "false" anyway and stop requested isn't changed at runtime |
| 17:21 |
sapier |
at least not changed to a value that would make the thread continue ;-) |
| 17:24 |
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| 17:59 |
hmmmm |
hmm, sapier, for your kick_player you don't need to luaL_checkstring right after checking for lua_isstring |
| 17:59 |
hmmmm |
you could just use lua_tostring |
| 18:00 |
hmmmm |
also the convention up until now has been returning a boolean true on success or nil on false (the latter evaluates to false in control statements and reduces the amount of code you'd need to write on the api side) |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
I did copy ban_player to implement. guess this doesn't follow convention too |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
shall I fix it too? |
| 18:03 |
hmmmm |
nah |
| 18:04 |
hmmmm |
returning a boolean false on failure seems pretty pervasive for some api |
| 18:04 |
hmmmm |
i guess the documentation could just read "on false it will return a value that logically evaluates to false" or something |
| 18:05 |
sapier |
I change it to whatever you/ShadowNinja want it to be changed. I had that code for benchmarking so I made a pull request as I thought it could be usefull for others too |
| 18:07 |
hmmmm |
like i said, it doesn't really matter... i also object to making shadowninja the one "in charge" of scriptapi |
| 18:07 |
hmmmm |
scriptapi is a common piece of code that shouldn't be owned by anybody in particular |
| 18:09 |
sapier |
everything is "common" in some way. We always have to take chances a particular maintainer keeps an eye on "the whole" on deciding what to add. |
| 18:10 |
sapier |
and as I know devel community I don't have any doubt a maintainer doing bad things will have to stand a intense flame war ;-) |
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| 18:50 |
ShadowNinja |
I've doubled the regex timeout. I've commented on the kick_player pull, and I think that returning false/nil on failure would be best. |
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| 20:27 |
ShadowNinja |
xyz: Can you figure out why travis isn't showing build success/failure notices anymore? It seems to be Travis-side, but the "team-minetest" team doesn't have administrative access https://travis-ci.org/minetest/minetest |
| 20:28 |
ShadowNinja |
I would also name the team "Core developers" or something like that. |
| 20:36 |
xyz |
ShadowNinja: no idea |
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| 21:38 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, i just found by accident something interesting... https://github.com/nrk/redis-lua |
| 21:42 |
RealBadAngel |
it turns out that there are many other soultions... http://code.google.com/p/luadbi/wiki/DBI |
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| 22:50 |
hmmmm |
well if you want to use a redis DB for mod storage that's fine |
| 22:50 |
hmmmm |
but don't integrate it into the core |
| 22:50 |
hmmmm |
the core is monolithic enough the way it is |
| 22:51 |
hmmmm |
are you going to commit your shader code...? |
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| 23:07 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, i just found those solutions nice and they can be used as mods |
| 23:07 |
RealBadAngel |
about shaders i think i will try first another idea, maybe it will turn out to be faster |
| 23:08 |
RealBadAngel |
but you can try it in its current stage, wonder how you will find it in game |
