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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-01-23

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11:12 xyz wtf is this
11:12 xyz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl​ob/master/src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L388
11:14 xyz why is label set to L"" in constructor and fdefault to label text and then flabel is assigned the label text
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12:46 xyz perhaps deSerializeLongString should at least check size of incoming buffer?
12:46 xyz otherwise it's way too easy to DoS any server
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13:52 RealBadAngel hi hmmm
13:52 RealBadAngel ive changed waypoints a bit: http://i.imgur.com/nPbRaU6.png
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14:18 tiemay when installing minetest, should "minetest-minetest_game-1a9362a" be renamed to "minetest_game"?
14:18 RealBadAngel yes
14:18 tiemay thanks
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15:48 RealBadAngel anybody have anything more against https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1112 ?
15:48 RealBadAngel if not, its ready to merge
15:49 xyz well if you're asking for nitpicking
15:49 xyz you've added tab here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1112/f​iles#diff-18513665750ef5adf42b5ec29e14162eL2368
15:49 xyz and there's no space between number and "nodes/meters"
15:50 RealBadAngel i was checking this tab
15:50 RealBadAngel in my pull it looks like its properly formatted
15:50 xyz the "distance suffix" is so stupid i can't believe you actually implemented it
15:50 RealBadAngel that was on demand
15:52 xyz yea asking you to remove it now would seem like trolling
15:52 xyz well other than that I have nothing to say, I think it's fine
15:53 RealBadAngel on the other hand, if some1 decide to make space flight simulator out of the engine
15:53 RealBadAngel that will be handy
15:54 xyz hm?
15:54 RealBadAngel ah, i can see whats wrong with that tab, will fix it
15:55 RealBadAngel remove the mapgen, add only entities, move the player as if he were a ship
15:55 RealBadAngel add some more hud elements
15:55 RealBadAngel and voila, space 3d shooter game is here ;)
15:56 RealBadAngel distance in meters in space would be just stupid :)
15:58 xyz oh, that's deep
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16:03 RealBadAngel ;) not really, just adding more sense to that ;)
16:03 proller space flight simulator - main target for minetest
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16:34 sfan5 can we merge #1110 already?
16:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1110 -- Include system info in the HTTP user agent on Windows by sfan5
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16:56 kahrl I'm okay with it so yeah
17:20 RealBadAngel ive fixed that tab in waypoints commit
17:24 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1112
17:38 xyz yay!
17:39 xyz while we're at it
17:39 xyz can you explain once again why using irrlicht's function to get 2d screen pos from 3d world pos won't work?
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17:49 tiemay yay! chakra has built in Colemak support! I ran `setxkbmap us -variant colemak`. how can I set it back to qwerty?
17:49 tiemay oops
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18:00 RealBadAngel xyz, i need coords in range 0-1, not in ablos
18:00 RealBadAngel oops, ... not in absolute screen coordinates
18:02 RealBadAngel i will need them for another features
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18:26 xyz RealBadAngel: in range 0-1 so they will be relative to what?
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20:14 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1116
20:14 sapier ShadowNinja:  could you try if this fixes your areamods issues?
20:15 sapier Celeron55 joining players will be shown after completing download of media as of this pull
20:16 PilzAdam "this will result in old clients failing to join on login without having completed download of all media in a previous session. Is this a big problem?" I guess no; we cant promise forward-compatibility
20:16 sapier I haven't removed the conlock because it will be required if we separate scriptapi to it's own thread, or allow async api to access server functions
20:18 troller again remixing of anything
20:18 sapier we could fix this issue by adding evaluating client version and handle old clients in a different way. But if there isn't another issue then old clients have to join twice I don't think it's worth the additional code
20:19 sapier troller first read then shout
20:19 sapier If you had you'd have seen what you call "remix" is actually consolidating duplicated code to single functions
20:20 xyz sapier: apparently fetching serverlist blocks game start, i.e. if servers.minetest.net is slow and you try to play a local game the client hangs for quite some time
20:20 troller 1,121 additions and 891 deletions.
20:20 troller ^ good remove of duplicated code
20:20 sapier shouldn't serverlist be read in a async call?
20:22 xyz dunno?
20:22 sapier you're talking about a delay in mainmenu aren't you?
20:22 xyz yes
20:23 troller sapier, why it not splitted in separate 15 pulls?
20:24 sapier because it's a single feature
20:24 sapier that feature just fixes multiple issues at once
20:25 troller again imagined issues?
20:26 sapier xyz it should be read asynchronously ... hmm but I don't know if it's possible to abort a http request maybe it has to finish for mainmenu to close
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20:27 xyz indeed, but for some reason it waits and this is EXTREMELY annoying
20:27 VanessaE "-Joining player standing in world long before player can move"     \:D/
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20:28 sapier btw vanessae if this is reviewed and last bugs are out your servers shouldn't be vulnerable to out of memory attacks too
20:28 sapier at least to a special variant
20:28 VanessaE sapier: oh you mean that string-too-long bit that comes up every so often?
20:29 sapier no I mean that queue all textures 20 times if 20 clients connect at same time
20:29 sapier 39MB * 20 clients ... 800mb ok I guess your hell of a machine could stand this for one of your servers
20:30 sapier whats your player max?
20:30 xyz hey i just wanted to talk about a memory attack
20:30 sapier I added a max simultaneous connnect setting in this pull
20:31 troller it must be = 1   !
20:31 sapier it's not best option but it'll fix the issue until we can add better variants
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20:31 rubenwardy If players send chat messages to a joining player, has the issue been solved where the joining player does not recieve them (is not ready to recieve chat)
20:31 rubenwardy ?
20:32 sapier yes ... somehow :-) other players won't see the joining player until he's ready to receive ... ok there's a very very small gap in between
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20:33 sapier hmm no there ain't a gap for time beeing, that gap might reoccur on async scriptapi ... but not for player <-> player chat but mod <-> broadcast only
20:34 xyz I'm not exactly sure how bad it is
20:34 sapier I guess you can't really expect a broadcast to be received by a joining player so I don't consider this to be a problem
20:34 xyz well to know what I'm talking about just check the code of deSerializeLongString, it's really simple bug
20:35 sapier I haven't fixed anything there this is most likely a different bug
20:35 xyz I wasn't talking to you ;)
20:36 sapier oh ... :-)
20:36 VanessaE sapier: player max on my servers is 50.
20:36 xyz this will just make server allocate 4gb of memory or so
20:36 sapier Ahh another thing, I don't consider 1116 to be production ready, I could only do basic testing it most likely contains bugs
20:37 xyz it doesn't check actual length of the buffer anywhere
20:37 sapier ok this single server can allocate 2gb at once in worst case
20:37 VanessaE at present, my "almost vanilla" server has 12 clients connected and actively playing, another couple apiece on the nostalgia, "survival", and lua mapgen test sites.  creative has 1 more, and realtest is idle.
20:37 VanessaE (at least, so says the master server lit)
20:37 VanessaE (list*)
20:38 sapier it's not a matter of connected clients, actually connected clients reduce risk ;-)
20:38 VanessaE sapier: that was to proller's chagrin ;)
20:40 xyz 12 CLIENTS! JUST IMAGINE THIS NUMBER!
20:40 sapier considering usual 2 clients per server this seems to be an improvement ... no more no less
20:40 VanessaE xyz: it was double that earlier, but I restarted at the request of several users to install some skins and change a few settings.
20:42 xyz that was usual until buildcraft came
20:43 VanessaE whatever the reason, this is immaterial to sapier's subject.
20:43 sapier talking about buildcraft is celeron working on a android version or did he just play with his android toy?
20:45 xyz I don't remember him working on android version
20:45 xyz he was working on sailfish (or something) version
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20:49 xyz so I guess nobody is working on android version right now
20:50 * sfan5 isn't working on an android version either because irrlicht broken things
20:50 sfan5 aka never update something that works
20:50 sapier1 oh you're right sailfish not android
20:50 xyz what things?
20:51 ShadowNinja proller doesn't seem to have said anything helpfull within the past few days...
20:51 sfan5 it doesn't show the mainmenu, just black screen
20:51 sapier no error message at all?
20:51 sfan5 dunno whether it crashes, haven't researches further yet (no time)
20:51 sfan5 no
20:51 sapier sad
20:51 sfan5 researched*
20:52 sfan5 it doesn't even create a debug.txt
20:52 xyz oh cool, a lot of updates
20:52 xyz what about gdb?
20:52 ShadowNinja Mostly just criticising sapier's pulls without looking at them.
20:52 xyz ShadowNinja: why do you think he's not looking?
20:52 xyz how you can know?
20:52 sfan5 I can try to debug it, I just didn't have any time yet
20:53 ShadowNinja xyz: He makes generic criticisms like "it's overenginered" or "you're fixing a imagined issue".
20:53 xyz is he not allowed to?
20:54 ShadowNinja xyz: Not without a basis for it, no.
20:54 xyz sfan5: I guess a good idea would be to maintain our irrlicht fork with some patches
20:54 sfan5 yeah
20:55 xyz ShadowNinja: basis?
20:56 ShadowNinja xyz: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/basis
20:56 sapier ShadowNinja: please this discussion isn't worth time spent on it. Could you try 1116 if this is enough to fix your aremod?
20:56 xyz ShadowNinja: well and what you're doing is criticizing proller for criticizing sapier
20:56 xyz and asking to remove comments you don't like
20:58 ShadowNinja The difference being that I have a basis.  :-)  But perhaps sapier's right.  I'll check 1116.
21:00 xyz yeah you don't like his personality, that's a strong one
21:01 sfan5 xyz: how is this for touchscreen controls: http://sfan5.duckdns.org/u​pload/userdata/1/vout.mkv
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21:02 xyz is it so hard to upload it somewhere with decent dl speed?
21:02 sfan5 well sorry
21:02 sfan5 yes
21:02 xyz are you browsing from potato?
21:02 xyz it's like 10 kb/s
21:02 sfan5 oh.. that is because I'm torrenting stuff
21:02 sapier :-) guess you have to wait for some minutes till we can say anything about this controls ;-)
21:03 sfan5 ok, turned off the torrents
21:03 sapier still slow but way better
21:03 xyz hey it's up to 20 kb/s!
21:03 sapier hmm ... not exactly
21:03 xyz twice as much speed!
21:03 sfan5 any complaints for dl speed to telekom.de please :P
21:04 sapier I had 10-15 before now I have about 15 ... not a big difference
21:04 xyz uploading it somewhere would be a good idea
21:04 xyz no, really, what the fuck
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21:04 xyz 10 kb upload speed in 2014
21:04 xyz my phone's 3g is like 10 times faster or something
21:04 * sfan5 haz 100 kb upload
21:04 sapier I don't have much more here :-/
21:05 sfan5 pls stop dl'ing, I'm uploading to dropbox
21:06 ShadowNinja Too late, I got it.  :-)
21:07 VanessaE sfan5: the movement is good, but the big, HUGE contention is digging, placing, and especially climbing up/down
21:07 VanessaE based on the sample of users from my servers.
21:07 ShadowNinja Or part of it?
21:07 sfan5 well, I only finished the looking-around yet
21:07 ShadowNinja ^
21:07 sfan5 https://dl.dropboxuserconte​nt.com/u/30267315/vout.mkv
21:07 VanessaE I got enough of the video to see what you intended to show at least.
21:08 VanessaE I saw the climbing up/down should be dead easy - two buttons at one side of the screen that are only visible if you're on something that is climbable.  (or a jump button appears there otherwise()
21:08 VanessaE s/saw/say/
21:08 sfan5 that's a good ida
21:08 sfan5 idea*
21:08 VanessaE I mean shit, does it have to be so user-unfriendly as buildcraft clearly is?
21:08 sfan5 no
21:09 sfan5 it should be better ofc, so people will use official MT instead of builtshit
21:09 VanessaE yes, 10000000000% agree
21:10 VanessaE this tablet client is so busted-ass that half the requests for help I get on my servers boil down to "HELP!  KILL ME!  I'M STUCK!"
21:10 VanessaE because they can't climb down a stinkin' ladder
21:10 VanessaE or they can't read a G*ddamn sign.
21:10 VanessaE (no infotext? idk)
21:11 sfan5 anyway, code is here: https://github.com/sfan5/minetest/commit/​3c17ff21e4ede9e467d3ae8c891afa9b7050d03c
21:11 xyz i think the idea is faulty
21:12 xyz maybe it'd be somehow okay for devices with 2 hardware sticks
21:12 xyz but emulating it on touchscreen? dunno
21:13 ShadowNinja sfan5: You set touchscreen to both true and false by default.
21:13 sfan5 how about you can switch between what you've been working on and my thing?
21:13 troller mechwarriors returns!
21:13 VanessaE xyz: well the problem isn't what kind of physical device is used for the input.  the problem is how you interpret that input
21:13 sfan5 ShadowNinja: don't tell me setDefaults just does .push_back on a list
21:13 sfan5 s/Defaults/Default/
21:14 xyz VanessaE: what?
21:15 ShadowNinja sfan5: Hmmm?  The second overrides the first.  But it should be set only once.
21:16 VanessaE xyz: well, you're implying that the control system for a game like minetest/craft isn't really viable on a tablet, yet?
21:16 VanessaE yes*?
21:17 xyz VanessaE: the scheme i saw in sfan5's video won't work
21:17 VanessaE xyz: oh, I think he was just trying to demonstrate the positioning of the pointer relative to center
21:17 ShadowNinja MineCraft PE seems to pull it off fairly well.
21:18 VanessaE the pointer could just as easily have been the person's finger and the positioning of the box could just as easily have been down in the far lower corner.
21:18 VanessaE tablets are a lot more accurate in their detection of where you're touching than it seems like
21:18 VanessaE it's just that your fingers are so big that you gotta SEE what you're touching most of the time, hence large buttons
21:19 VanessaE but with a proportional interface like what sfan's got there, you only need to know where the center is.
21:19 VanessaE as soon as you take your finger off, I'm sure it assumes "centered" and stops moving/turning, yes?
21:20 sfan5 yes
21:20 sfan5 anything else wouldn't make sense
21:21 xyz well who knows, this video only show this thing
21:21 VanessaE then all it needs after that is a few buttons along the left side of the screen for climb down (which is greyed out most of the time), jump/climb up, and inventory, and maybe a button for chat
21:22 VanessaE anything else can be buried inside the regular menu button since those things wouldn't be used as much.  Any formspec that comes up with have a big, huge, green button that says "OKAY" and another big red one that says "CANCEL", added to then by the client.
21:23 VanessaE positioned at the top or bottom of the screen
21:23 VanessaE apparently buildcrap users are having trouble exiting from formspecs.
21:23 xyz oh now you're as bad as people who call microsoft m$
21:24 xyz sfan5: how do you plan to do digging, punching and right clicking?
21:24 * sfan5 is merging pull 1110 now because <kahrl> I'm okay with it so yeah
21:24 sfan5 well..
21:24 VanessaE xyz: I've played with the client, and I've fielded enough help requests from people who actively play on it that I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.
21:24 VanessaE it IS crap.
21:24 xyz and placing too
21:24 sfan5 like you said with the touch, hold, double touch
21:24 sfan5 s/said/proposed/
21:25 VanessaE tap to punch, hold to dig, reverse pinch to open./
21:25 VanessaE makes more sense to me
21:25 sfan5 what's a reverse pinch?
21:25 xyz lol
21:25 VanessaE you know, two fingers, then you spread them apart.
21:25 VanessaE the reverse of pinching them together
21:25 VanessaE usually used to zoom on a web page
21:25 xyz there's no "open" in minetest
21:25 VanessaE xyz: open a chest?
21:25 VanessaE open a door?
21:25 VanessaE open any formspec?
21:25 sfan5 s/open/rightclick/
21:25 VanessaE you know, the equivalent of right-clicking.
21:26 VanessaE but as this is a tablet, there is no right-ANYthing
21:26 xyz sfan5: so without a cursor? like in my gui?
21:26 xyz VanessaE: yea open an apple and stuff
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21:26 sfan5 no, with cursor (that may chanche if it turns out that is super crappy)
21:26 VanessaE xyz: come on man, make an effort.
21:26 VanessaE you know perfectly well what I meant by that
21:26 xyz ah ok
21:27 xyz at least those will be different
21:27 VanessaE 99% of mods use the right click action to open a formspec or open/close a door-like object of some kind
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21:30 xyz it's much easier to implement rightclick and well i think it'll be easier to use too
21:30 sfan5 s/chance/change/
21:31 RealBadAngel xyz, not relative to what, all HUD parameters are given in such way, 0-1 for both x and y
21:31 xyz ugh
21:33 RealBadAngel then theyre scaled according to actual screen resolution
21:33 VanessaE fine then implement it as right click
21:33 xyz so relative to screensize
21:33 xyz err, double click
21:33 RealBadAngel also shaders are using 0-1 without even knowing actual resolution.
21:34 xyz well you can call that irrlicht function and divide by screensize
21:34 RealBadAngel inst simplier to take a few lines of code that i need than reverse some steps of it?
21:35 xyz anyway i don't really understand the issue but i'd use a library function instead of copypasting it and hacking around
21:35 RealBadAngel this library function is basically vector * matrix
21:36 xyz i'm not saying what you did is wrong, i just don't know
21:36 RealBadAngel i wouldnt call it any name, especially hacking
21:37 RealBadAngel not to mention lots of mt code is just copy pasta from irrlicht examples ;)
21:37 RealBadAngel with comments even :)
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22:13 VanessaE [01-23 17:05] <cheapie> Remember the issue a long time ago with wraith's gravel road suddenly dropping itself as entities?
22:13 VanessaE [01-23 17:05] <cheapie> I just had some gravel in my mine do the same thing.
22:13 VanessaE (on my Survival server)
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22:44 ShadowNinja Adds pointed_thing to node:on_punch and monetest.register_on_punchnode callbacks (and fixes a typo with the last pointed_thing passing adition) http://ix.io/a5v
22:44 ShadowNinja s/mone/mine/
22:45 ShadowNinja I also added copy_pointed_thing() which means that it actually removes 38 lines and adds 28.
22:47 ShadowNinja Also, the PenLight Lua library is very usefull, maybe we could load it by default somehow... (It adds string:split/startswith/endswith/etc and a bunch of other usefull functions like deepcopy, although some things aren't needed, like the argument parsers)
22:49 sapier hmm I guess the license could be compatible but I'm not exactly sure about it
22:51 sapier did you try if it works without metatable access?
22:52 ShadowNinja Some things will, but things like the class library obviously won't.
22:53 sapier hmm guess it should be possible to remove the code not working without metatable
22:54 ShadowNinja But why would we remove get/setmetatable?
22:54 sapier why remove? .. I think about confusion caused if different environments support different basic features only ... we can't avoid this for minetest.* features but how to explain to user why "startswith" works in scriptapi but not in client side lua
22:54 sapier because you can't build a client env with metatable access enabled
22:55 sapier as far as I know you can't stop a lua script to break out of sandbox once it has metatable access
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22:57 ShadowNinja It can get the metatable for strings, but it sounds like you're talking about Lua sandboxes like the one used for the LuaController.
22:58 ShadowNinja I'm not aware of anything bad that you can do with it after reading the lua-users wiki page on sandboxes.
22:58 sapier I don't know the lua controler but it's way mor critical on client side. If we do a error in there we open users client to execute arbitrary downloaded code
22:59 ShadowNinja Yes, but you can't do anything bad with metatables.
22:59 ShadowNinja The only thing mentioned is modifying the global string metatable, but that's not relevant in a C sandbox.
23:00 sapier the question not answered there is in what way it's broken
23:00 sapier in best case it causes a crash only, in worst case it's usable to inject code
23:00 sapier but I can't tell from those information provided
23:01 ShadowNinja You can inject unsandboxed code with get/setmetatable?
23:01 sapier I don't know
23:02 ShadowNinja You can if it's a Lua sandbox, but not with a C sandbox, as the C doesn't run string:* unsandboxed.
23:03 sapier not sure if you can cause something like a buffer overflow by breaking those metatables
23:04 ShadowNinja Lua doesn't have buffer overflows silly.  ;-)
23:04 sapier not sure if this is possible but I could imagine you could manipulate the metatable to access os.execute() instead of sting.gsub
23:05 sapier I meant a buffer overflow in c part ... the data is still stored in memory where c code is too
23:06 sapier ok not exactly the lua variables should be stored at heap not at stack
23:07 sapier but the only thing I wanted to say is we need to be very very carefull. Usually if you want to be secure in case of doubt better not allow something.
23:11 ShadowNinja No, you can't access, eg, os.execute in any string methods.
23:11 ShadowNinja And you can do getmetatable("").__metatable = false to prevent manipulation of the metatable.
23:12 sapier as far as I understood lua variables are internaly referenced by stack positions. I haven't tied this but I'd not be surprised you can access any element of stack if you manage to find out it's stack position
23:13 sapier actually we have to do this if you want to allow get/setmetatable
23:14 sapier what about rawget/set there doesn't seem to be a way to make those safe?
23:14 ShadowNinja The C code uses stack indexes, but Lua has no raw access to the stack.
23:15 sapier not even debug?
23:17 sapier ok it's late, we don't have client side lua yet so I guess best thin we can do is be very carefully on reviewing any future implementation of it
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