| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
VanessaE |
I'm just suggesting something similar to this, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6747702/ |
| 00:01 |
ShadowNinja |
No, we're preventing them from redefining the internal name, which would really make a new, almost identical node. And override the old one too. |
| 00:02 |
VanessaE |
hm, ok |
| 00:02 |
ShadowNinja |
The (name, redefinition) syntax is shorter and more consistent. |
| 00:12 |
ShadowNinja |
Made redefinition of a non-existent node non-fatal and added doc: http://ix.io/9QW Comments? |
| 00:13 |
VanessaE |
ok, I can get behind that. |
| 00:27 |
kahrl |
ShadowNinja: I think it should be an error to redefine a non-existent item |
| 00:28 |
kahrl |
instead of silently ignoring the call |
| 00:30 |
ShadowNinja |
kahrl: It makes it easier to only redefine nodes if they exist, o you can support other mods without wrapping everything in "if minetest.registered_items[name] then ... end". |
| 00:31 |
ShadowNinja |
so* |
| 00:32 |
ShadowNinja |
And it's not nice when someone else removes the node from their mod and your mod fails. |
| 00:33 |
kahrl |
but if you override an item, you expect that your changes have some kind of effect |
| 00:34 |
kahrl |
what's wrong with the call in an if? |
| 00:34 |
kahrl |
with wrapping* |
| 00:36 |
kahrl |
by default it should fail fast, e.g. to let the mod programmer know if they have a typo |
| 00:49 |
VanessaE |
bbl |
| 02:40 |
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| 03:17 |
iqualfragile |
overide will be quite a nice thing |
| 04:00 |
ShadowNinja |
Thoughts on #1096? Seems like it should be done in a mod(mesecons), but maybe this would be usefull. |
| 04:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1096 -- Add circuit simulator. by Selat |
| 04:08 |
hmmmm |
well I think the point is to make circuits more efficient |
| 04:09 |
hmmmm |
from what I've seen so far the code itself looks good but the code style is completely his own thing, at the very least I would hope that the spaces would get changed to tabs, but we could do that |
| 04:09 |
hmmmm |
if we were to merge that we'd have to have one of us take a look at what it actually does, verify that it works the correct way, do some QA on the code itself, a line-by-line peer review would be good enough I suppose |
| 05:06 |
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| 07:11 |
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| 07:40 |
celeron55 |
i'm surprised how well that is done |
| 07:40 |
celeron55 |
but it's still controversial |
| 07:42 |
celeron55 |
it adds std::list <CircuitElement>::iterator to every MapNode |
| 07:43 |
celeron55 |
i'm sure that contains at least one pointer or even more, immediately doubling or even tripling the size of each MapNode, independently of whether the whole map uses the functionality at all |
| 07:44 |
celeron55 |
it's an utter waste of memory |
| 07:56 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: oh btw... I forgot if I mentioned, I tried out those ultra-aggressive settings you gave a while back, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6698208/ ... big fat barrel of NOPE :-) Lag city. The last two lines that set the emergequeue limits are good, though. |
| 07:57 |
celeron55 |
why is everyone testing those; i already said they don't work |
| 07:57 |
celeron55 |
try something like 16 instead of 100 |
| 07:57 |
VanessaE |
at present, I'm at the defaults on all of those, save for the last two. seems to work fine that way |
| 07:58 |
celeron55 |
also 20 is probably too much for a server with multiple users (it won't make anything slower but the server will use a lot of bandwidth and disk) |
| 07:58 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: by default it's 4 |
| 07:58 |
VanessaE |
whats the size of a mapblock again? |
| 07:58 |
celeron55 |
size? |
| 07:58 |
VanessaE |
some 128k isn't it? |
| 07:59 |
celeron55 |
what size |
| 07:59 |
celeron55 |
volume? bits? compressed or not? weight? |
| 07:59 |
VanessaE |
the data count/size in bytes of a chunk or block as measured in that particular field. |
| 07:59 |
celeron55 |
on disk or in memory, and including or not including meshes on the client? |
| 07:59 |
VanessaE |
(I presume it's a mapblock = 16x16x16 nodes) |
| 08:00 |
VanessaE |
as sent over the network. |
| 08:00 |
celeron55 |
i guess they average at some hundreds of bytes |
| 08:00 |
VanessaE |
oh ok, not sure where I got 128k then. |
| 08:02 |
celeron55 |
i don't think anything related to minetest is 128k |
| 08:02 |
VanessaE |
eh, disregard that number. I don't know where that even came from |
| 08:05 |
VanessaE |
I'm just trying to figure in my head why even 100 was too much - the server's dedicated and has a full 100 Mbps pipe, so even if "hundreds of bytes" could equate to 1kB, it would take ~100 clients to flood the network out. |
| 08:05 |
VanessaE |
but it only took like 5 or 6 clients to make it lag out with that setting. |
| 08:06 |
VanessaE |
(and the network bandwidth was barely a blip) |
| 08:07 |
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| 08:22 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: it's generally limited by the client's mesh generation speed |
| 08:22 |
VanessaE |
ah |
| 08:22 |
celeron55 |
so with a fast connection you effectively have 100 meshes waiting to be generated, which generally results in many seconds of meshgen lag |
| 08:22 |
VanessaE |
users were reporting 2-3 minutes' worth of lag at the time. |
| 08:23 |
celeron55 |
(not with my new laptop though...) |
| 08:23 |
VanessaE |
that would tend to explain it :) |
| 08:23 |
VanessaE |
I was flooding the poor sods out :D |
| 08:23 |
celeron55 |
it probably flooded the connection in some way too; dunno how exactly |
| 08:23 |
celeron55 |
at least if they were using old clients |
| 08:24 |
VanessaE |
could be. from the server's end, it was barely a blip. |
| 08:24 |
VanessaE |
http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html |
| 08:25 |
VanessaE |
round about 18:00 on that chart |
| 08:25 |
VanessaE |
only had those settings in place for perhaps 10 minutes or so |
| 08:27 |
VanessaE |
(I should adjust the CPU collection code to also report *only* that used by the minetest servers in addition to the total) |
| 08:36 |
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| 10:49 |
Megaf |
hi all |
| 10:56 |
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| 15:19 |
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| 15:21 |
BlockMen |
umm..guys? current master (engine and game) doesnt render blocks anymore (win7 64bit opengl 2.1.0) |
| 15:22 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 15:23 |
celeron55 |
oh that's such a minor bug |
| 15:23 |
celeron55 |
just live with it |
| 15:24 |
BlockMen |
yeah, indeed. i have now a perfect drawtime :P |
| 15:24 |
BrandonReese |
probably broke with ShadowNinja's commit "Fix Spelling of 'attempt'" if he didn't spell attempt right there is no telling what else he broke |
| 15:24 |
BlockMen |
celeron55, can i push this meanwhile? https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/commit/84bbe1ec6e5f76ab8b9e11ebf247f82dcad17330 |
| 15:25 |
celeron55 |
BlockMen: anyway; you should try to bisect a commit which broke it for you |
| 15:25 |
VanessaE |
BlockMen: actually, I just pulled from git about 20 minutes ago, at least the server side is fine. |
| 15:25 |
BlockMen |
celeron55, will do |
| 15:26 |
VanessaE |
(I'm at 5434d87d on the server, anyway) |
| 15:27 |
VanessaE |
currently at a4c5f10e on the client side |
| 15:27 |
celeron55 |
BlockMen: i guess you can push it, but kahrl is the one who has most authority on it according to the subsystems |
| 15:28 |
celeron55 |
or maybe thexyz; whatever |
| 15:29 |
rubenwardy |
late SOPA protest? |
| 15:29 |
BrandonReese |
I just pulled from git and recompiled and everything seems to be in working order. Kubuntu OpenGL |
| 15:30 |
BlockMen |
celeron55, i thought since its just a MSVC specific thing and just a header it wouldnt be that subsystem special |
| 15:30 |
BlockMen |
but if i should wait for the maintainer im fine too |
| 15:31 |
xyz |
sure why not |
| 15:31 |
xyz |
it can't make things worse, so |
| 15:31 |
xyz |
any reason for not using cassert though? |
| 15:32 |
xyz |
BlockMen: ^ |
| 15:34 |
BlockMen |
xyz, whats the difference between cassert and assert? |
| 15:34 |
VanessaE |
side topic: one of my players just got another hit on issue #1101 |
| 15:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1101 -- 0.4.9-36-g574ed6a Minetest Client /mainmenu.lua:562: in function handle_multiplayer_buttons |
| 15:44 |
xyz |
okay, I read about it and figured out I was wrong |
| 15:44 |
xyz |
anyway, use whatever works for you |
| 15:45 |
xyz |
the difference is what namespace functions will be included to |
| 15:45 |
xyz |
but usually you'll get both I guess |
| 15:45 |
xyz |
global and std namespaces used |
| 15:49 |
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| 15:49 |
BlockMen |
xyz, ic, thx |
| 15:49 |
BlockMen |
so whos part is it now, yours or kahrls (since c55 didnt know either)? |
| 15:51 |
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| 16:00 |
xyz |
who cares, just push it |
| 16:00 |
xyz |
change is too simple |
| 16:04 |
BlockMen |
done |
| 16:07 |
BlockMen |
and to the rendering problem: 10fdbf7375 works fine while e21b29f422 does not. so it must be one of the 3 commits between i guess |
| 16:08 |
BlockMen |
but im afk for now |
| 16:08 |
Tesseract |
git bisect start && git bisect good 10fdbf7375 && git bisect bad e21b29f422 |
| 16:11 |
xyz |
I think it's 8b0b857eaaa50c6ec217a46c0577395c78ec04c7 |
| 16:11 |
xyz |
I mean, sapier as usual wrote some stuff for windows without even compiling it |
| 16:12 |
celeron55 |
seems very likely |
| 17:21 |
BlockMen |
cant say whether its 8b0b857eaa or 9edb91da57. with 8b0b857eaa i cant connect to server. 9edb91da57 fixes that but which one causes the rendering problem is not clear. |
| 17:24 |
xyz |
wtf |
| 17:24 |
xyz |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/gettext.cpp#L27 |
| 17:25 |
xyz |
apparently this works because MSVC just ignores the part starting with "and" |
| 17:25 |
xyz |
but something tells me you're supposed to &&, not and |
| 17:27 |
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| 17:30 |
celeron55 |
how the hell do these end up in the codebase |
| 17:30 |
celeron55 |
is there a compiler option for disabling those keywords? |
| 17:31 |
celeron55 |
maybe -fno-operator-names |
| 17:31 |
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| 17:31 |
celeron55 |
(for gcc) |
| 17:33 |
xyz |
-O2 -Wall -Werror -Wformat-security -Wignored-qualifiers -Winit-self -Wswitch-default -Wfloat-equal -Wpointer-arith -Wtype-limits -Wempty-body -Wno-logical-op -Wstrict-prototypes -Wold-style-declaration -Wold-style-definition -Wmissing-parameter-type -Wmissing-field-initializers -Wnested-externs -Wno-pointer-sign -std=gnu99 |
| 17:33 |
celeron55 |
? |
| 17:34 |
xyz |
this could improve quality of the code greatly |
| 17:35 |
xyz |
(although I copied this from C course page) |
| 17:35 |
celeron55 |
i think we shouldn't use the gnu C++ "standards" if at all possible |
| 17:35 |
celeron55 |
so -std=something-actually-standard |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
actually what even are the options |
| 17:37 |
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| 17:37 |
celeron55 |
i guess it would be c++03 then until we drop msvc2010, in which case c++11 (or c++0x (understood by a bit earlier compilers)) |
| 17:39 |
celeron55 |
(but the and/or/whatever keywords actually are part of the standard, so this doesn't fix that) |
| 17:40 |
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| 17:51 |
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| 17:57 |
sapier |
hmm that "and" is in there for quite some time ;-) ... of course it's wrong ... guess I did a lot of lua programming by that time |
| 17:59 |
sapier |
btw I don't do a freebsd build too ;-) |
| 18:00 |
BlockMen |
sapier, http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-01-14#i_3547116 and http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-01-14#i_3547238 |
| 18:01 |
sapier |
last one seems to be fixed isn't it? |
| 18:01 |
sapier |
first one is windows only too? |
| 18:02 |
xyz |
but you don't write freebsd-only code as well |
| 18:03 |
BlockMen |
how should i know? i have win only. and no, i wrote current master, so it isnt fixed |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
who can tell freebsd is working same as linux? |
| 18:03 |
xyz |
and we know that it's more-or-less compatible |
| 18:03 |
xyz |
unlike windows |
| 18:03 |
xyz |
my point is not that you should test everything everywhere when you commit code |
| 18:03 |
sapier |
remembering the threading issues proller had on jthread switch there are major differences |
| 18:04 |
xyz |
this is impossible and would be quite stupid to ask |
| 18:04 |
xyz |
my point is that when you modify platform-specific code better make sure that it's correct |
| 18:04 |
sapier |
I asked multiple times about those fixes to be tested |
| 18:04 |
xyz |
so we don't get shit like ";e" |
| 18:04 |
xyz |
which doesn't even compile |
| 18:05 |
sapier |
as we don't have a usefull working test platform for windows I consider this os as low priority, if we manage to get a sane windows environment not relying on various different binarys and non available compilers I can test windows too |
| 18:06 |
xyz |
so you think it's okay to write code without even compiling it? |
| 18:06 |
sapier |
I told this multiple times and have no reason to change my opinion by now |
| 18:06 |
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| 18:06 |
sapier |
if you're that upset about it I'm gonna not add any windows version in future |
| 18:07 |
xyz |
great attitude we have there |
| 18:07 |
VanessaE |
kahrl: regarding issue 1011, 8966c16a is the cause. |
| 18:07 |
xyz |
"i can't agree with you so just fuck you, right" |
| 18:07 |
VanessaE |
er, 1101 |
| 18:07 |
xyz |
and you didn't answer the question |
| 18:07 |
sapier |
no in a perfect world I'd fully agree with you ... but I don't have time to test 200 different setups |
| 18:08 |
sapier |
and as long as there ain't a reference platform to check against I wont waste time testing "some" platform |
| 18:08 |
xyz |
> so you think it's okay to write code without even compiling it? |
| 18:08 |
xyz |
oh, that's fine |
| 18:08 |
xyz |
let's say our platform is MSVC 2010 on Windows |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
mingw is not officially supported |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
objections? |
| 18:09 |
sapier |
ok if you define it this way I wont provide any windows code in future as I can't get that platform work |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
but that means we won't have compatibility with windows |
| 18:09 |
xyz |
which is too unacceptable |
| 18:10 |
PilzAdam |
we cant expect sapier to test his pull requests on all platforms |
| 18:10 |
sapier |
ok then I suggest those people using windows on regular base test code once they're asked |
| 18:10 |
PilzAdam |
thats why we call master "unstable" |
| 18:10 |
xyz |
PilzAdam: that's not what I mean, please try reading my point |
| 18:11 |
PilzAdam |
sorry |
| 18:11 |
sapier |
xyz I fully agree with you that this would be great but It's just not possible to test any single change on all platforms |
| 18:11 |
sapier |
it's more then doubling development time |
| 18:12 |
xyz |
again, my point — writing platform-specific code without testing it (not even compiling, I'm not talking about testing every use case) is unacceptable |
| 18:12 |
xyz |
sapier: as I said already, I'm not talking about "every single change" |
| 18:13 |
sapier |
ok the quick solution is I won't write platform specific code anymore and just leave windows code to someone who knows what he's doing ... result will be same windows doesn't build |
| 18:13 |
PilzAdam |
writing broken platform-specific code is better than writing nothing |
| 18:14 |
xyz |
if you don't write platform specific (windows) code then your code won't work on windows and therefore won't be merged and as the result we get working (somehow) windows builds |
| 18:14 |
xyz |
I don't really know what to do about it so I'll just ask celeron55 to solve this MAINTAINER CONFLICT |
| 18:15 |
sapier |
I wont discuss this any longer, I don't have time to check any code for all platforms, so if you can't live with some shorttimes broken code you'll have to live with no code at all, those are the options to decide |
| 18:16 |
sapier |
and btw if you think it's tooo difficult to add a simple missing include we've got more problems |
| 18:17 |
xyz |
you again are saying "any code for all platforms" which is not what I mean |
| 18:17 |
xyz |
maybe you should try reading what I say or something |
| 18:18 |
xyz |
whoa, and how did adding a single include solve BlockMen's problem? |
| 18:18 |
sapier |
It didn't so compiling wouldn't have shown the real problem at all |
| 18:19 |
sapier |
And chances to check all minetest features at all platforms are even less ;-) |
| 18:20 |
xyz |
yes, the word about "compiling" was to show you how extremely wrong this is |
| 18:21 |
xyz |
if you write code which doesn't even compile then what else can we talk about |
| 18:21 |
sapier |
it's quite simple that pull request was there for 3 weeks to test, if noone else cared to test it it's just not important |
| 18:21 |
xyz |
ah so it's okay to merge something untested if it's open for too long, I see |
| 18:22 |
sapier |
if it's only a platform issue while main platform works yes |
| 18:22 |
xyz |
so what's the main platform? |
| 18:23 |
xyz |
I can't find any definition of that on the wiki |
| 18:23 |
sapier |
os/2 warp for sure |
| 18:24 |
xyz |
so..? |
| 18:24 |
sapier |
btw httpfetch doesn't build on mingw too |
| 18:24 |
xyz |
I really want to know what platform do you define as "main" and why |
| 18:25 |
sapier |
obviously linux is main platform for developers if I have to tell you about this you must have missed something |
| 18:25 |
xyz |
yes, now you added "for developers", I guess I missed this the previous time you said something about main platforms |
| 18:26 |
sapier |
development branch is ... according to its name primary for developers |
| 18:27 |
xyz |
well, fine |
| 18:27 |
xyz |
let's say you win this time |
| 18:27 |
sapier |
and while I fully understand your point, no matter how long you complain I still wont have time to test everything at any platform |
| 18:28 |
sapier |
of course I try not to break window |
| 18:28 |
sapier |
s |
| 18:28 |
sapier |
and if it happens I will fix it |
| 18:28 |
xyz |
I've never said you should test everything everywhere |
| 18:28 |
xyz |
my point was that if you write platform-specific code then please make sure it works |
| 18:28 |
xyz |
got it now? |
| 18:29 |
xyz |
that doesn't mean you should do it, that's why it's called "my point" |
| 18:29 |
sapier |
if I have time I do so but that wont be always case ... especially if master is broken on that platform anyway |
| 18:30 |
xyz |
then how do we solve this issue? |
| 18:30 |
sapier |
we need more regular windows testers ... or define one open available clean windows test environment |
| 18:30 |
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| 18:31 |
xyz |
open and windows aren't friends |
| 18:31 |
sapier |
I can't build current master neither on mingw nor on msvc2012 |
| 18:32 |
xyz |
moreover, this won't help us because official builds are done with VS |
| 18:32 |
sapier |
we are the ones doing the official builds |
| 18:32 |
xyz |
I'm the one, to be precise |
| 18:32 |
celeron55 |
i figure an automated windows build, even with mingw, would help |
| 18:32 |
xyz |
now what? |
| 18:32 |
sapier |
as far as I know msvc2010 was used because of directx not beeing available in mingw by that time is that correct? |
| 18:33 |
xyz |
"by that time"? |
| 18:33 |
xyz |
do you mean it's available now? |
| 18:33 |
sapier |
of course |
| 18:33 |
sapier |
I managed to build all of minetests depencencys except of openal and directx itself, but I was able to link direct3d support with mingw |
| 18:34 |
sapier |
about 3 months ago |
| 18:34 |
sapier |
right now neither mingw nor msvc2012 work |
| 18:34 |
BlockMen |
i doubt that this issue is msvc only |
| 18:34 |
BlockMen |
and i can build current master on msvc |
| 18:34 |
sapier |
what version of msvc? |
| 18:34 |
xyz |
well, msvc is believed to have better optimizations |
| 18:35 |
BlockMen |
2010 |
| 18:35 |
xyz |
I really don't know, if everybody's okay with supporting only MinGW then why not |
| 18:35 |
xyz |
but you'll have to find someone to make builds |
| 18:35 |
* BlockMen |
isnt |
| 18:35 |
xyz |
BlockMen: why not? |
| 18:35 |
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| 18:36 |
BlockMen |
see it positive. i you can get it run under msvc it runs everywhere |
| 18:36 |
sapier |
ok so we have right now msvc2010 builds but doesn't work ... mingw doesn't link msvc2012 doesn't link |
| 18:36 |
xyz |
BlockMen: no, that's not true |
| 18:36 |
xyz |
moreover, MSVC is quite "different" in some aspects |
| 18:36 |
sapier |
obviously msvc2010 doesn't even ensure it's buildable with 2012 ;-) |
| 18:36 |
BlockMen |
:( |
| 18:36 |
xyz |
sapier: why didn't you build openal? |
| 18:37 |
sapier |
because I didn't find buildable source code |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
http://repo.or.cz/w/openal-soft.git |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
that probably is what is used as the open source one |
| 18:38 |
xyz |
http://kcat.strangesoft.net/openal.html |
| 18:38 |
xyz |
yup |
| 18:38 |
BlockMen |
but shouldnt we just drop msvc when we find a problem that seems to be msvc specific and not easily solvable? |
| 18:38 |
celeron55 |
that probably builds ridiculously easily on anything |
| 18:39 |
sapier |
hope that's not same one I already tried without succes but I'll give it a try |
| 18:39 |
celeron55 |
i think it's what linux distros package |
| 18:39 |
xyz |
BlockMen: well, as I see the problem, it's that people write code for windows without testing it on windows |
| 18:39 |
sapier |
there's a even more severe problem with msvc ... gettext |
| 18:40 |
xyz |
what about it? it works fine |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
it's not supported as of 2012 for licensing issues |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
and never will be |
| 18:40 |
xyz |
and the problem is..? |
| 18:40 |
celeron55 |
i guess that probably means we drop msvc support completely when we drop msvc2010 support |
| 18:41 |
celeron55 |
or alternatively switch from gettext to something else |
| 18:41 |
sapier |
locale handling code supplied with msvc2012 is incompatible to gpl and is required to be linked to lib |
| 18:41 |
sapier |
license incompatible |
| 18:42 |
sapier |
that's why there's no gettext dll for msvc2012 out there |
| 18:42 |
xyz |
sapier: can you elaborate? |
| 18:43 |
celeron55 |
i neither don't really get how it can be more incompatible than it was before |
| 18:43 |
sapier |
you'd have to ask a lawyer for details but that's what you find on looking for a gettext dll for msvc2012 |
| 18:44 |
sapier |
some change in end user license of msvc2012 |
| 18:44 |
celeron55 |
why do these cancers have to exist |
| 18:45 |
celeron55 |
both pretend they own the world and then make the life of everyone harder than it should be |
| 18:45 |
xyz |
sapier: can you provide a link or something? I tried to google "msvc2010 gettext dll" and nothing relevant comes up |
| 18:45 |
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| 18:46 |
sapier |
it's quite some time since I did look for that dll I haven't saved links |
| 18:46 |
sapier |
I guess looking for gettext msvc 2012 official could be a good starting point to find it |
| 18:47 |
xyz |
celeron55: they're very autistic; they call "win32" "woe32" because it's no "win" |
| 18:48 |
xyz |
> Microsoft uses the term “Win32†to denote these; this is a psychological trick in order to make everyone believe that these OSes are a “win†for the user. However, for most users and developers, they are a source of woes, which is why I call them “Woe32â€. |
| 18:48 |
xyz |
anyway, getting slightly off-topic here |
| 18:48 |
celeron55 |
oh god |
| 18:50 |
xyz |
sapier: gettext runtime library is under LGPL, gettext tools (which we don't use) are under GPL; I can't see the problem here |
| 18:51 |
sapier |
I only tell what those ppl providing the old versions write |
| 18:51 |
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| 18:51 |
sapier |
if you find a msvc2012 dll I'd be glad, I didn't manage to find one |
| 18:53 |
celeron55 |
hmm, isn't LGPL really like GPL at the dependency side of things (i mean, when it depends on something) |
| 18:53 |
xyz |
sapier: compile it yourself? |
| 18:54 |
xyz |
ah, found something related http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-utils/2004-01/msg00049.html |
| 18:55 |
sapier |
ok that seems to be the issue I remember |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
so it's all about interpretation of the license |
| 18:56 |
sapier |
it's allways about interpretation :-) |
| 18:58 |
xyz |
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#WindowsRuntimeAndGPL |
| 18:58 |
xyz |
even if it were under GPL I still don't see the problem |
| 18:59 |
sapier |
ok then someone should build a gettext dll and provide it, I found noone doing this |
| 18:59 |
sapier |
if you're sure about it you can do it, I'm not willing to take the risk |
| 18:59 |
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| 19:00 |
xyz |
why can't you do that? |
| 19:00 |
xyz |
what's the "risk" you're talking about? |
| 19:01 |
BlockMen |
just to peek in, do we need that at all? is there a good reason to switch to msvc2012? |
| 19:03 |
ShadowNinja |
I'm getting those map errors that VanessaE got... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6751991/ |
| 19:03 |
VanessaE |
oh my |
| 19:04 |
sapier |
ok any idea particles are there and have texture but nodes don't have |
| 19:05 |
xyz |
no, that situation is too fucked up |
| 19:05 |
celeron55 |
BlockMen: none at the moment, except maybe c++11 |
| 19:05 |
ShadowNinja |
And when teleporting there: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6752008/ |
| 19:05 |
xyz |
c++11 would be quite nice to have, at least some parts of it |
| 19:05 |
celeron55 |
BlockMen: for some reason sapier insists on using it |
| 19:05 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: I'm curious - if you ignore world load errors, what does the resultant block look like when it's loaded? |
| 19:05 |
VanessaE |
is it gibberish, or empty? or something else? |
| 19:06 |
ShadowNinja |
It will probably be regenerated. |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
i once found some very small i18n library that supported loading non-compiled gettext language files |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
but i can't find it now; i've tried for over 20 minutes already |
| 19:07 |
xyz |
well, there seems to be no problem with gettext |
| 19:07 |
xyz |
it's under lgpl, so everything is well |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
no real problems, yes |
| 19:07 |
xyz |
the problem is with GPL'd software |
| 19:08 |
celeron55 |
i like to dig up all the alternatives for reference though |
| 19:08 |
xyz |
what if you link it to MSVC runtime and then want to distribute, are you allowed to distribute runtime .dll with your software or not? |
| 19:08 |
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| 19:08 |
BlockMen |
celeron55, i would like to keep 2010 as long as possible since a have a full licence for ultimate |
| 19:09 |
xyz |
lol |
| 19:09 |
celeron55 |
BlockMen: that's a stupid reason |
| 19:09 |
* BlockMen |
knows that :P |
| 19:09 |
xyz |
did you buy it? |
| 19:09 |
celeron55 |
just download 2012 illegally; if someone asks whether you're allowed to do that, tell them i gave you permission |
| 19:09 |
BlockMen |
nope, from my university |
| 19:10 |
xyz |
then you can have 2012 too, can't you? |
| 19:10 |
BlockMen |
celeron55, i bet that will work |
| 19:10 |
BlockMen |
xyz, no, only 2010 |
| 19:10 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: Nope, it does this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6752024/ |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
well actually, i probably wouldn't do that myself |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
the MSVC builds that i have made of minetest have been all made with the express edition |
| 19:10 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: eep! |
| 19:10 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: what's the actual world look like in that area? |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
(I mean, a screenshot thereof) |
| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
BlockMen: tell them it's a bad university if they don't allow you to learn C++11 |
| 19:11 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: Nothing loads. |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: hm, interesting. |
| 19:11 |
xyz |
dreamspark usually gives access to latest versions of microsoft software |
| 19:12 |
VanessaE |
guess I should have expected that. |
| 19:12 |
BlockMen |
celeron55, as they would care |
| 19:12 |
sapier |
I use msvc2012 because my windows build box isn't big enough for mingw msvc2012 AND msvc2010 ... and I see no reason to waste another half a week to get msvc2010 build to work |
| 19:12 |
sapier |
well mingwbuild is broken atm too |
| 19:13 |
BlockMen |
well, whatever. my version is not valid reason for switching or not, so... |
| 19:13 |
sapier |
C:\MinGW\msys\1.0\build\minetest\src\httpfetch.cpp:29:25: fatal error: sys/utsname.h: No such file or directory |
| 19:13 |
ShadowNinja |
kahrl: ^ |
| 19:14 |
kahrl |
well, that was apparently proller |
| 19:14 |
kahrl |
just change it to #ifndef _WIN32 or something |
| 19:15 |
xyz |
we still haven't decided on "official" windows build env |
| 19:15 |
* BlockMen |
prefers MSVC2010 |
| 19:15 |
xyz |
I think we should do that |
| 19:16 |
sapier |
if we do so this environment should be able to build all dependencys too |
| 19:16 |
sapier |
at least all non os or compiler suite contained dependencys |
| 19:16 |
xyz |
of course |
| 19:17 |
sapier |
msvc2012/2010? can do almost all too maybe gettext is a problem but if you find a way to build it to it'd be fine too |
| 19:17 |
xyz |
well I can give it a try |
| 19:19 |
sapier |
still I'd prefere mingw because for mingw we have ide as well as debugger available without registration |
| 19:20 |
xyz |
any other opinions? |
| 19:21 |
sapier |
we could define two windows envs too, at least if we manage to get both in a stable state |
| 19:21 |
ShadowNinja |
kahrl: Can you make that change? sapier: Any other errors? |
| 19:21 |
Calinou |
MSVC is proprietary, requires EULA + registration |
| 19:22 |
sapier |
yea serialization.cpp is still broken ... but that's due to someone insisting on using msvc zlib with mingw build |
| 19:23 |
sapier |
those are two changes in httpfetch |
| 19:23 |
xyz |
sapier: we can't get one now |
| 19:23 |
xyz |
Calinou: windows too |
| 19:23 |
sapier |
maybe two are more easy then one? |
| 19:23 |
xyz |
yeah suure |
| 19:26 |
kahrl |
ShadowNinja: I think it's a build issue so that's for xyz to commit |
| 19:26 |
xyz |
hey, I'm dealing with it right now by determining what builds envs we support! |
| 19:26 |
kahrl |
by the way, the way minetest builds the useragent does not conform to RFC 2616 |
| 19:28 |
kahrl |
Calinou: I didn't have to register to use the express version... |
| 19:30 |
sapier |
they changed for all newer versions kahrl |
| 19:31 |
sapier |
if you don't register you can use gui only for 30? days |
| 19:31 |
celeron55 |
fucking finally! |
| 19:31 |
celeron55 |
https://github.com/j-jorge/libintl-lite |
| 19:31 |
celeron55 |
i found it |
| 19:31 |
kahrl |
sapier: well I didn't need the gui |
| 19:32 |
kahrl |
of course there's still the eula |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
if we're talking about standards, there shouldn't be .minetest in homedir |
| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
libintl-lite looks very approachable if it ever turns out gettext isn't worth the gnufagging |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
but ~/.config/minetest :P |
| 19:34 |
celeron55 |
Calinou: that has been discussed |
| 19:35 |
kahrl |
actually there has been a response on one of the issues about that |
| 19:35 |
kahrl |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/864 |
| 19:35 |
Calinou |
is the answer "fuck the standards" as usual? |
| 19:35 |
Calinou |
:/ |
| 19:35 |
Calinou |
I fear such a behaviour from you guys |
| 19:36 |
kahrl |
Calinou: how is ".<progname>" not a standard? |
| 19:37 |
Calinou |
it's bad practice |
| 19:37 |
Calinou |
and discouraged by FreeDesktop as far as I remember |
| 19:37 |
Calinou |
it clutters your home dir |
| 19:37 |
xyz |
sapier: can you explain why do we need to compile every dependency from source? |
| 19:38 |
Calinou |
more and more programs have been using ~/.config/<progname> |
| 19:38 |
kahrl |
freedesktop encourages bad practices such as installing systemd and pulseaudio too |
| 19:38 |
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| 19:38 |
Calinou |
... |
| 19:39 |
sapier |
because binaries usually don't match your environment |
| 19:39 |
celeron55 |
but everyone loves poettering, right? |
| 19:39 |
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| 19:40 |
sapier |
e.g. msvc libs for mingw ... whoever did this just wanted to have "something" working |
| 19:40 |
xyz |
sapier: ah, I see; but if we're talking about choosing one single environment |
| 19:40 |
celeron55 |
i did it o/ and it always has worked |
| 19:41 |
sapier |
yes because you had didn't have to get gettest freetype ... working by that time ;-) |
| 19:42 |
celeron55 |
oh yeah, it doesn't in that case 8) |
| 19:44 |
sapier |
debugging is quite difficult if you can't get debug symbols to your binary :-/ |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:38 |
ShadowNinja |
kahrl: Better? http://ix.io/9Ry |
| 20:43 |
kahrl |
ShadowNinja: yeah |
| 20:44 |
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| 20:51 |
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| 20:53 |
sapier |
ok I think I found blockmens error |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
can someone explain to me why all semaphore implementations have some feature missing? |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
posix is missing relative sleep time |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
windows is missing read function for current semaphore count |
| 20:54 |
kahrl |
sapier: what purpose would the read function serve? |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
it's for implementing a broken minetest implementation ;-) |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
mintest first checks if a queue is empty |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
I used semaphore count in new mutex queue implementation |
| 20:56 |
kahrl |
ah, that kind of stuff |
| 20:56 |
kahrl |
why not replace all those cases with a try-read approach? |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
in long run this is the way to go but I didn't want to change all those code at once |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
maybe I can ask the queue instead of semaphor on windows, I don't want to add a mutexed counter to semaphore implementation |
| 20:58 |
sapier |
I thought ReleaseSemaphore(sem,0,&retval) would return the current count in retval while incrementing semaphore by 0 .... but I made same mistake others have done ... 0 is a invalid value |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
and retval is not updated at all in this case |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
but adding a os dependency to mutexqueue is quite ugly too |
| 21:00 |
sapier |
I could ask the queue with that call beeing protected by the mutexqueues mutex |
| 21:01 |
kahrl |
you could try NtQuerySemaphore |
| 21:01 |
khonkhortisan |
This line will fix the numpad, but I don't know where to put it: if (event.KeyInput.Char != 0) { event.KeyInput.Key = 0 } |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
ok better idea true |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
I'll try that one |
| 21:03 |
khonkhortisan |
Right now I just have case KEY_END: if (evnent.KeyInput.Char == 0) { in intlGUIEditBox |
| 21:06 |
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| 21:07 |
ShadowNinja |
I'll push that user-agent change soon if nbody objects. (What section is this in? I guess kahrl knows it so he's in charge if it) |
| 21:07 |
ShadowNinja |
+o |
| 21:08 |
kahrl |
good question... it affects network, masterserver maybe |
| 21:08 |
ShadowNinja |
xyz: Commit s/_MSV_VER/_WIN32/ on that include and below in the useragent setter. |
| 21:08 |
kahrl |
httpfetch could be counted as util too |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
ok works for me I'm gonna create a pull request for this fix |
| 21:09 |
ShadowNinja |
Well, you wrote it, and the whole purpose of sections is so that people who know that code can manage commits for it. So I guess you manage it. |
| 21:11 |
kahrl |
that could be said of GUITable too though |
| 21:11 |
kahrl |
but that's your section |
| 21:11 |
kahrl |
in any case, I'm fine with the useragent change |
| 21:18 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1102 |
| 21:22 |
sapier |
btw it's not https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8b0b857eaaa50c6ec217a46c0577395c78ec04c <https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8b0b857eaaa50c6ec217a46c0577395c78ec04c7> |
| 21:23 |
sapier |
but https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/04e9a9d5410a151d232a577b46791d2edffba527 who added that bug |
| 21:23 |
sapier |
ok I'm still responsible for that bug ;-) |
| 21:56 |
kahrl |
sapier: can you change it so it only calls GetProcAddress once? |
| 21:56 |
kahrl |
(once per process, thread or semaphore) |
| 21:56 |
kahrl |
afaik GetProcAddress is expensive because it has to walk the entire DLL export directory and do a lot of string comparisons |
| 21:58 |
sapier |
ok |
| 22:00 |
sapier |
better this way? |
| 22:00 |
kahrl |
yes |
| 22:00 |
kahrl |
(I assume static initializers are run after all DLLs are loaded?) |
| 22:00 |
sapier |
hope it works this way |
| 22:01 |
sapier |
I hope so |
| 22:01 |
sapier |
should be tested on different win32 versions |
| 22:08 |
kahrl |
it might cause trouble (probably only if jthread were moved to a dll): http://blog.barthe.ph/2009/07/30/no-stdlib-in-dllmai/ |
| 22:08 |
kahrl |
because when static initializers are run, the loader lock is held, and GetModuleHandle acquires the loader lock |
| 22:09 |
kahrl |
according to that post |
| 22:09 |
sapier |
ok I add a comment to that location |
| 22:11 |
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| 23:07 |
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| 23:14 |
xyz |
m_env should be deleted before m_emerge |
| 23:14 |
xyz |
in ~Server |
| 23:15 |
xyz |
otherwise there's invalid memory access in EmergeManager::setParamsToSettings |
| 23:17 |
xyz |
because params are deleted in ~ServerMap which is deleted in ~ServerEnvironment |
| 23:19 |
xyz |
btw, it may be a good idea to check stuff with ASan |
| 23:22 |
xyz |
it'll catch stuff like this |
| 23:22 |
xyz |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/guiPauseMenu.cpp#L255 |
| 23:22 |
xyz |
"// ALWAYS return immediately after quitMenu()" lol no fug you |
| 23:27 |
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| 23:30 |
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| 23:31 |
aracnus |
Hi people. |
| 23:33 |
aracnus |
I posted a message yesterday on forum, about translating the main Minetest website to other languages (I intend to do this for Brazilian Portuguese). Is there anyone here that I could talk about it? (or, first, is it interesting?) |
| 23:39 |
xyz |
removing drop() here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/guiTextInputMenu.cpp#L118 stops ASan from complaining about heap-use-after-free, not sure why |
| 23:56 |
iqualfragile |
are entity movement finaly sent unreliable? |
