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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-01-13

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Time Nick Message
00:31 rsiska joined #minetest-dev
01:22 dragutux joined #minetest-dev
01:22 dragutux hello is there any people modding minetest ? :p
01:23 dragutux i'm mainly thinking ogre3d render & cubes blending (to have a "smooth" appearance) :)
01:24 dragutux tbh i have a game ongoing and i'm considerign stable voxel techs after playing with star made a bit
01:24 ShadowNinja dragutux: If you mean C++ mods then they are writing some patches. But Ninetest uses irrlicht.
01:25 ShadowNinja Minetest*
01:25 dragutux i know it uses irrlicht, that part is negligible i can do it myself :) i'm more curious about polishing the cube rendering
01:26 ShadowNinja Well, you're free to submit a pull request that adds a node smoothing option. :-)
01:26 dragutux so yeah anyway i'm interested in rendering mods :p
01:27 dragutux ShadowNinja, what about projects existing to see whats interesting ? :P
01:28 ShadowNinja You can look at BlockMen's 3rd person mod.
01:28 ShadowNinja (Forums -> Unofficial engine development)
01:35 dragutux wait
01:35 dragutux you mean 3rd person is a mod ?
01:36 dragutux i'm not being ironic...
01:36 dragutux minetest still pretty much alpha ?
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18:02 rubenwardy celeron55: Someone is asking for minetest.net translation. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=8290
18:02 rubenwardy (just to let you know, do as you will)
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18:39 celeron55 rubenwardy: i might if there is enough demand
18:39 rubenwardy I am not very linguistic, so I won't be able to help.
18:42 iqualfragile well, i would volunteer for the german translation, but i guess that one will not be a problem
18:42 celeron55 that's an issue probably; we need to find a trusted person for updating each language
18:44 kaeza I can help with spanish if needed
18:46 rubenwardy Huh. You could redirect people to translate.google.com when they try to access fr.minetest.net etc. Customer service!
18:46 rubenwardy (Lol)
18:48 xyz great idea (not)
18:48 Exio4 it is a good idea, the third user will complete the translation :D
18:49 sapier can someone reproduce shadowninja/vanessae's bug where server sends inventoryformspecs prior init to client?
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19:31 * VanessaE peeks in and immediately hides :)
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20:00 sapier https://gist.github.com/sapier/8406393 is a workaround for clients to queue packets sent from server prior init is received ... this fixes the "lost hud" problem
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20:18 ShadowNinja dragutux: Minetest certainly isn't complete.  But what is? ;-) There will always be more to do as long as there's someone to do it.
20:20 ShadowNinja I might add a announcement option to my server management script to work around the bug.  But it'll be hard to get a playerlist, so I'll just send that I have 1024 clients, to be safe.  ;-D
20:21 sapier ShadowNinja: what exactly is wrong there?
20:23 ShadowNinja sapier: It doesn't send any TCP packets at all.
20:24 sapier did you debug it?
20:25 ShadowNinja I ran tcpdump on it, but I didn't do anything more.  And I don't know enough about HTTPFetch or CURL to know what to do next.
20:26 sapier what to do to reproduce it?
20:30 ShadowNinja I simply start a server after the commit that made announcement use HTTPFetch
20:30 ShadowNinja s/ $/./
20:37 sapier but seems to work for others so where's the difference?
20:38 ShadowNinja I don't know.
20:38 ShadowNinja There doesn't seem to be any config changes or similar.
20:39 ShadowNinja kahrl: ^ What could I be doing that's breaking it?
20:40 sapier I guess there isn't a error message?
20:40 sapier you know httpfetch was broken for some commits after the thread cleanup? your passt the commit that fixed it again?
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21:41 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
21:41 sapier1 you're sure it doesn't happen with non fixed client too?
21:42 celeron55 i think i'll try if blocking chinese visitors from the blog would help
21:42 celeron55 it's not like they have any business there anyway
21:45 VanessaE sapier: and players are starting to come up with 2d "the green guy" player skins again - and not just for me, either.
21:45 VanessaE possible artifact of the UDP fixes code?
21:45 VanessaE (rather than your latest patch I mean)
21:46 sapier1 actually if the model info is sent prior client intit this could be effect too
21:49 sapier1 too many users?
21:49 xyz celeron55: block them why exactly?
21:50 celeron55 xyz: my wimpy c55.me server can't really sustain a load like this for long periods
21:50 VanessaE sapier1: what?
21:50 sapier1 I couldn't login with "too many users" (one time)
21:50 VanessaE wow
21:50 VanessaE I better up the limit
21:50 celeron55 or it can, but it's all taken away from the resources that i use for myseelf
21:52 xyz ugh
21:52 xyz it's like page per 5 seconds
21:52 celeron55 they should go bullying minetest.net instead, that one has bandwidth and cpu for anything
21:52 xyz well whatever, your domain your rules
21:52 sapier1 too many users again :-)
21:52 sapier1 but I couldn't reproduce the bug you described by now
21:53 VanessaE ok, adjusted.
21:53 VanessaE max set to 50 :)
21:53 celeron55 xyz: maybe you won't believe, but with that load, wordpress causes the poor pentium 4's fan to start spinning up and down very annoyingly
21:54 sapier1 what was it before?
21:54 VanessaE it was at the default of 15.
21:54 celeron55 load average: 0.53, 0.45, 0.38 <- that's what it was getting (it's a single-core machine)
21:54 xyz didn't know about the "hardware"
21:55 xyz makes sense then
21:55 celeron55 yeah, "hardware"
21:55 celeron55 more like "what the fuck is this antique shit"
21:55 sapier1 stoneageware :-)
21:56 sapier1 p4 with or without hyperthreading? ;-)
21:56 celeron55 with!
21:56 celeron55 with THREE GIGAHERTZ!
21:56 sapier1 :-) wow the cooking device
21:56 celeron55 it's almost as fast as my mobile phone at like 85W TDP
21:56 VanessaE USE _ALL_ THE GIGAHERTZ!
21:57 * Taoki still hopes to see the VBO patch adapted to latest Minetest and included sometime. Been a while since there was any news on that last time...
21:57 sapier1 vanessae did your server handle 16 players prior patching?
21:57 sapier1 wait it's a new server so we can't compare
21:57 VanessaE sapier1: you mean before the big UDP fixes patches?
21:58 VanessaE no.  not a chance in hell, even with this server.
21:59 sapier1 ok so I guess the regressions are at least the lesser problem
21:59 VanessaE yeah
21:59 VanessaE that HUD problem and even the map loading glitch are both really pretty minor compared to the previous issues.
22:00 sapier1 of course they have to be fixed .. question is do we add the client side workaround or wait for propper server side fix ... what do others think about this issue?
22:02 VanessaE I'd say do it server-side.
22:02 VanessaE getting users to fix their clients tends to be met with... resistance.
22:02 sapier1 serverside may introduce more bugs prior fixing it completely and is quite a lot to implement
22:02 VanessaE true
22:04 VanessaE inb4 proller complains that it lags.
22:05 sapier1 anyone else?
22:18 sapier1 I can see world loading slow at -1300 with all those players online but it loads
22:19 VanessaE there's certainly plenty of bandwidth available.  CPU is hovering close to 100% now
22:19 VanessaE but the server is responding to commands instantly
22:19 VanessaE 11 users online
22:20 VanessaE actually, strike that, it's varying quite widely, as low as 20, as high as 90.
22:20 ShadowNinja sapier1: Fix #1099!  :-)
22:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1099 -- Texture packs with "[" in the name causes the Texture Packs menu to not draw.
22:22 sapier1 why should someone use [ in texturepack name?
22:23 sapier1 I wonder what uses cpu power
22:24 VanessaE oh some mod I'm sure.  pipeworks or technic, most likely.
22:25 VanessaE and mapgen stuff whenever that needs to kick in
22:25 sapier1 maybe if we added threadnames to jthread we could see the those in top -H
22:25 VanessaE that would be nice for sure
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22:33 ShadowNinja I tried formspec_table, and it works, but it seems like such a huge abuse of the formspec system...
22:35 ShadowNinja I'll push vertical particles in a minute unless there are objections.
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22:37 kahrl ShadowNinja: in what way is it an abuse?
22:39 ShadowNinja kahrl: This seems repetitive: https://github.com/kahrl/table​test/blob/master/init.lua#L141
22:39 ShadowNinja And it just seems so klunky and hard to read.
22:40 kahrl well, that example is not how you'd normally use it
22:41 kahrl one indent column should normally be enough
22:41 kahrl I added that example in order to test those cases
22:41 ShadowNinja I also think that the event should be sent exploded, not as a string.
22:42 kahrl it should but afaik that's not possible with the current protocol and API
22:43 kahrl any suggestions how to make it easier to read?
22:43 kahrl the formspecs, that is
22:43 sapier1 you could write some classlike wrapper around it ;-) but that'd be somehow strange
22:44 sapier1 I doubt it can be done in formspec style in lot mor simpler way
22:45 ShadowNinja I'd like formspecs to be table-based.  They would be sent over the network serialized using minetest.serialize, JSON, marshal, or something similar.
22:45 sapier1 implement something sane instead of formspec if you already do that much work
22:46 kahrl I think the simple (probably most typical) cases such as https://github.com/kahrl/table​test/blob/master/init.lua#L69 are reasonably easy to read
22:47 kahrl anything more complex will probably be generated at runtime anyway
22:50 ShadowNinja I don't understand what most of that means.  I have to read the docs to find out.  Having things like "width = 5" is more verbose, but you can understand it without having seen a formspec before.
22:52 kahrl yeah, but that's a concern for any old formspec field
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22:54 kahrl formspec_table has more named options than other formspec fields, actually
22:54 kahrl (everything in tableoptions and tablecolumns)
22:55 kahrl that reminds me that I didn't push my latest changes to tabletest (after I removed the ..._alpha options from the pull request)
22:55 ShadowNinja Formspecs would look something like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6747455/
22:56 kahrl why absolute positioning?
22:56 ShadowNinja And you could set the size directly in the formspec table, instead of as a entry in it, as Lua allows mixing string and integer keys.
22:57 ShadowNinja What would you suggest?  Something HTML-like?
22:58 kahrl not sure what that encompasses but yes, some automatic layout system
22:58 kahrl perhaps you could choose between different layouts e.g. grid, flowing, manual
23:01 ShadowNinja Something like this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6747476/
23:02 kahrl yep
23:03 ShadowNinja The elements field would allow for any element(within reason), a string would be equivalent to {type="text", text="<Text>"}
23:05 kahrl all this seems like a good idea, but outside the scope of formspec_table, do you think you'll merge it anyway?
23:06 kahrl the code should be extensible enough to support mixed-type columns in the future, I believe
23:07 kahrl (in GUITable, the type is stored per-cell, not per-column, and columns can have different left and right edges in each row)
23:07 ShadowNinja Yes, it seems good enough to merge, it can't really be done in a better way with the current system.
23:12 ShadowNinja I removed two trailing newlines in the doc.  Any opposition to merging?
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23:13 kahrl I'll add a tutorial to the dev wiki (probably wednesday evening / thursday)
23:14 ShadowNinja Alright.  And see if you can add support for it to the main menu.
23:14 adriana1 hello
23:15 ShadowNinja Hello, adriana1.
23:16 adriana1 as are
23:17 adriana1 shadowninja
23:18 ShadowNinja What do you need?
23:19 adriana1 What do you need?
23:19 adriana1 nothing
23:20 ShadowNinja adriana1: This channel is only for discussion about Minetest engine development.  You may want #minetest.
23:21 ShadowNinja I particularly would like the formspec table in the configure menu(I use modpacks and symlinks for organization and deduplication) and the server list(ICONS! :-D ).
23:22 kahrl those are what I based the feature set on ;)
23:23 adriana1 okei ShadowNinja:
23:23 kahrl image column for the server icons
23:23 kahrl (and for checkboxes)
23:23 kahrl indent/tree column for the tree of mods and modpacks
23:26 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Can you document this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/a358c040f2d6d1fe6825121bf8ab57ceb5865cc9
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23:28 ShadowNinja hmmmm: And see if you can fix #1061.
23:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1061 -- Crash with no error message with `minetest.place_schematic` and table schematic specifier.
23:30 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Any comments on #706? It looks OK to me.
23:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/706 -- HUD Bugfix by blue42u
23:33 ShadowNinja Comments on this?  It should close a number of issues... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6747598/
23:34 kahrl ShadowNinja: seems to be incomplete without a call to minetest.register_item_raw
23:35 adriana1 left #minetest-dev
23:38 ShadowNinja kahrl: How's this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6747632/
23:43 ShadowNinja Should type redefinition be allowed?
23:44 VanessaE ShadowNinja: node re-definition routine in lieu of clone_node?  then yes, absolutely.
23:45 kahrl ShadowNinja: that version should work, yeah I"m not sure about type redefinition
23:45 kahrl I think it's best if that's disallowed
23:46 VanessaE why?
23:47 VanessaE if by "type" you mean changing a field from e.g. string to table
23:47 kahrl it could be allowed, but then you need to make sure all the containers for the different types are updated
23:47 kahrl no, type as in "node" "tool" "craftitem"
23:47 VanessaE OH
23:47 VanessaE naw
23:47 VanessaE I see no reason for THAT
23:48 kahrl ShadowNinja: perhaps append the item name to the error msesage in line 4
23:48 VanessaE oh, "redefine a item" <-- "an item"
23:51 ShadowNinja How's this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6747670/
23:52 VanessaE wait,
23:52 VanessaE why do you need a name field if it's already specified in the redefinition table?
23:52 ShadowNinja (Typo fixed)
23:53 VanessaE shouldn't you be taking that from redefinition.name anyway?
23:53 ShadowNinja VanessaE: minetest.register_item_raw accepts only one argument, a table.  One of those fields is the name.
23:53 VanessaE yes,
23:54 ShadowNinja The minetest.register_* functions take the name seperately though.
23:54 VanessaE but if you are specifying a node def, you already have the name in there.  shouldn't you be extracting the name from the def and using that for *both* places that is' needed?
23:54 VanessaE it's*
23:54 VanessaE it just seems a little redundant, that's all

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