Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-01-08

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:11 zat joined #minetest-dev
00:29 iqualfragile joined #minetest-dev
00:36 bas080 joined #minetest-dev
00:59 bas080 joined #minetest-dev
01:28 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
02:30 ImQ009_ joined #minetest-dev
02:33 blaise joined #minetest-dev
02:33 * blaise hides quietly in the corner to observe
02:37 iqualfragile xyz, sapier, ShadowNinja: we could use socialist milionaire protocoll for password authentification
02:39 iqualfragile both client and server have the clients passwordhash, so they could just test if its the same
02:39 iqualfragile an attacker would then have to intercept the message the client uses to create a new account/ change his password to get it, which is a lot less likely
02:45 iqualfragile (it allso makes shure the server is not fake, but i do not think that actually matters)
02:45 iqualfragile *sure
02:47 sapier left #minetest-dev
02:49 bas080 joined #minetest-dev
03:32 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
03:38 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
04:05 Anchakor_ joined #minetest-dev
05:51 NakedFury joined #minetest-dev
05:53 Anchakor_ joined #minetest-dev
06:07 iqualfragile joined #minetest-dev
06:21 salamanderrake joined #minetest-dev
06:23 blaise joined #minetest-dev
06:48 NakedFury joined #minetest-dev
07:09 darkrose joined #minetest-dev
07:49 bas0801 joined #minetest-dev
07:55 SmugLeaf joined #minetest-dev
09:05 sapier joined #minetest-dev
09:15 sapier iqualfragile according to wikipedia socialist milionaire  requires an additional "key" p. If we make that one to be hardcoded in minetest, it's useless. If it's generated on first connect (what I understand is what you suggested), you can't ever connect using a different client.
10:02 john_minetest joined #minetest-dev
10:45 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
11:07 sapier john_minetest: did you do additional tests to 1090 yet?
11:11 john_minetest I connected to c55's server yesterday, not more
11:11 VanessaE sapier: for my servers, your 1090 pull, as it existed about 8 hours ago, just went online.  Do I need to update?
11:12 VanessaE that is to say, I'm at commit 9a12056dacafb8be67e95cbfcad203d234b89ae5 right now.
11:13 VanessaE meh, I hate merge commits too.  make that 1f1a4c9
11:15 VanessaE celeron55: about http://paste.ubuntu.com/6698208/ ...  is there any point to actually applying those last couple of lines?  I'm a little confused as to whether you'd decided it helped or not.
11:18 BlockMen joined #minetest-dev
11:22 john_minetest I think I will set up a server for testing purposes.
11:31 sapier tha last commit only affects low bandwidth connections
11:32 sapier I recommend not to add celerons changes as they cause a lot of cpu load and will render test of networking useless
11:33 VanessaE ok
11:33 john_minetest sapier: Is your branch with udp merged yet?
11:33 VanessaE I will leave my servers' configs at their normal state and just work off of what I've got from #1090
11:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1090 -- Network fixes udp 1 by sapier
11:33 VanessaE shaddup, bot :)
11:33 VanessaE (this is 1090 applied on top of a clean clone, btw)
11:34 john_minetest VanessaE: Which tool do you use to monitor server stats (like CPU/mem usage)?
11:34 sapier but of course, once we know networking works it's worth a try according to celeron those settings will make minetest faster (if your server is fast enough)
11:34 VanessaE john_minetest: rrdtool
11:35 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/va​nessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html
11:35 VanessaE in fact, I *JUST* put that online an hour ago, as you can see
11:35 VanessaE (those big spikes are from the nightly backup script)
11:35 sapier we tried 1090 yesterday on celerons adsl connection, with the additional fix applied it was slightly faster on downloading then master, but master didn't perform as bad as it did for you either
11:36 sapier without it id did overload the adsl connection ;-)
11:36 VanessaE heh
11:36 VanessaE well you *do* want to be able to flood it out
11:36 VanessaE but only if it's legit traffic and not tons and tons of resends/bad packets
11:37 john_minetest VanessaE: how to set it up?
11:37 sapier yes but you have to adjust that setting if your connection is extremely slow
11:37 VanessaE john_minetest: --> #minetest
11:37 john_minetest (
11:38 sapier meaning if there's no chance to send 1024*512 bytes in a single shot
11:39 sapier 512*554 ... I always forget overhead
11:39 sapier and change wrong number 1024*554
11:44 VanessaE sapier: well in some near future, maybe you'll figure out some kind of auto-ranging feature.
11:52 john_minetest 88.75.122.65:30000 - have fun!
11:58 john_minetest Can you join?
11:58 john_minetest It is running sapier's new net branch.
11:59 VanessaE not right now, busy with other stuff
12:01 john_minetest ok.
12:02 john_minetest Btw, when I am flying up in the sky I am flying against unloaded chunks sometimes. Are they just not loaded or does it take that time to generate them?
12:04 VanessaE turn off noclip.
12:04 VanessaE they need time to generate, but that ^^^ will stop that behavior.
12:04 VanessaE (they'll still need time to generate though)
12:05 john_minetest Why not say: "x blocks is the upper mapgen limit, so above that it is alway air."
12:06 john_minetest That way it just says: "There is air up there" and it doesn't have to generate it.
12:06 VanessaE sapier: potential problem...  and this may have already been there and I didn't see it before:  my servers are randomly disappearing from the master server list.
12:07 VanessaE they'll be there on one refresh cycle, then on the next cycle one of them will be gone from the list, then it'll be a different one that's gone, etc.
12:07 VanessaE john_minetest: because of things like floatlands
12:07 VanessaE and there are mapgen mods that might put stuff way up high
12:07 proller john_minetest, indev have floating islands
12:07 VanessaE otherwise what's the use of a map that goes to +31k?
12:08 proller and FM have no unloaded problem ;)
12:08 proller VanessaE, Road server have ~20000 mountain
12:09 VanessaE proller: case in point.
12:14 VanessaE Is there some limit to how many servers can show up on the public list?
12:15 john_minetest Is the whole mapblock sent if it is empty or only an [empty] flag?
12:16 john_minetest server stopped btw.
12:26 VanessaE ah, figured out the server list issue.  two servers fighting for the same port (a screwup when I migrated to the new host).
12:26 VanessaE so I *still* don't have the announce problem that ShadowNinja was having.
12:27 VanessaE for once I DON'T have a bug! :D
12:27 VanessaE john_minetest: what stopped?
12:28 proller VanessaE, announce problem already solved
12:29 VanessaE proller: oh was it?  what was the problem?
12:29 proller too long get ?query=
12:29 proller now it via post
12:30 VanessaE ah
12:30 VanessaE odd though that my servers probably issue the longest such GET commands and they worked.
12:31 john_minetest VanessaE: I stopped my server.
12:31 VanessaE oh ok.
12:31 proller it was strange floating problem only for  ShadowNinja
12:38 sapier VanessaE I don't se a way to determin maximum server bandwidth automaticaly, I can and do this for each individual peer but that's something completely different
12:39 VanessaE sapier: well I meant for some time down the road.
12:40 sapier maybe but as this is supposed to be a interim solution ...
12:40 VanessaE right
12:40 VanessaE meanwhile:
12:41 VanessaE I am connected to one of my servers, with your 1090 patch, using a vanilla mt client (at current HEAD) and it's working perfectly fine so far
12:41 VanessaE just routine dig/build stuff, nothing wrong at present but theres no other-user activity right now
12:42 sapier that's good, if no critical errors occur until tonight (utc) I'm gonna merge it
12:42 VanessaE I would give it at least a couple of days before merging, if it can wait that long
12:43 VanessaE (owing to the need to rebase, etc)
12:45 sapier didn't you already try it for days?
12:46 VanessaE sort of yes
12:46 sapier 1090 is just some refactoring
12:46 VanessaE I mean, in the form of your separate fork
12:46 VanessaE but not in the forum of this pull + merged against master
12:46 VanessaE I'm paranoid like that :)
12:47 sapier of course it's not 100% there wasn't a error on refactoring but it's dev not stable branch ;-)
12:47 VanessaE did you fix that one exception that kept popping up?
12:47 sapier yes
12:48 VanessaE ok good
12:49 sapier maybe other core devs could write their opinion too, I'd not have a problem waiting some days too
12:54 VanessaE getting some reports now
12:54 VanessaE three users online plus myself, seem to have no trouble playing.
12:54 sapier what trouble?
12:55 VanessaE no, no trouble.
12:55 VanessaE one user reports losing some mese, but that was yesterday and may be a player error, not a server error.
12:55 sapier oh :-= NO :-)
12:56 sapier guess the word "trouble" is conotated that bad I don't see the "no" on first reading it :-)
12:57 VanessaE reading comprehension FAIL :)
13:02 VanessaE One user reports that they're using "4.9" (presumably 0.4.9-release) and it works fine
13:20 VanessaE Still seeing a fair amount of sign-OFF lag though
13:20 VanessaE (but I always exit-to-OS, so maybe it's the client crash issue and I just don't notice, as such)
13:37 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
13:37 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
13:50 sapier VanessaE that might be result of fixing singleplayer shutdown hang, if client doesn't manage to get disco out within half a second it's not sent at all ... causing peer to timeout at server
14:08 sapier enet jitter calculation seems to be totally broken or is rounded to an extent beeing useless
14:09 sapier to be correct not jitter calculation but rtt calculation
14:26 zat joined #minetest-dev
14:31 Exio4 the feature i would love is the "send-view-distance-to-server", it would be good for people with not-that-good networks
14:34 ShadowNinja proller: I'm about 99% sure that your semi-POST commit doesn''t fix my issue.  But I'll test it.
14:43 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
15:02 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
15:06 ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev
15:13 Yepoleb joined #minetest-dev
15:18 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
15:36 iqualfragile sapier: the key is the hashed password
15:36 zat joined #minetest-dev
15:39 iqualfragile btw: my server is still running on sapiers branch
15:42 smoke_fumus joined #minetest-dev
15:47 Jordach joined #minetest-dev
16:03 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
16:16 john_minetest joined #minetest-dev
16:45 sapier iqualfragile I did understand this different for what I read it you need a key p AND hashes to verify
16:46 sapier but I could be wrong about it
16:46 iqualfragile you are :D
16:46 iqualfragile while there is another key in use that just gets generated
16:46 sapier so I'm right
16:47 sapier that one generated is the one I'm talking about
16:51 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
17:02 salamanderrake joined #minetest-dev
17:04 PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev
17:08 salamanderrake_ joined #minetest-dev
17:42 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
17:43 Jordach joined #minetest-dev
17:48 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
17:48 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
17:55 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
17:57 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
17:58 Zeitgeist_ joined #minetest-dev
18:01 sapier joined #minetest-dev
18:02 john_minetest Nice changes on github
18:04 zat joined #minetest-dev
18:15 zat joined #minetest-dev
18:19 iqualfragile sapier: nah, thats allright, will still work
18:19 sapier I don't understand how is this supposed to work?
18:20 iqualfragile the socialist milionarie protocoll checks two values for equality
18:20 iqualfragile without giving any information about their actual value
18:20 sapier yes I assume this is the hash
18:20 sapier but to be able to check it it requires that key "p"
18:20 iqualfragile so if both the client and server have the same value (pwhash in this case) they will successfully compare it
18:20 sapier that both of them need to know
18:22 iqualfragile sapier: https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/Protocol-v3-4.0.0.html better description
18:23 sapier that's otr wich requires to accept a common secret first
18:23 iqualfragile search for socialist milin
18:23 iqualfragile *milion
18:26 xyz please
18:26 xyz if you're going to harden security or use crypto in any way
18:26 xyz do use libraries, don't write your own crypto
18:26 proller lets use openssl with clients certs
18:27 proller and usb tokens
18:28 sapier ok iqualfragile p doesn't have to be secret so I misinterpreted this point, but I agree with xyz imho we don't have any chance to implement crypto in a save way on our own
18:28 xyz correct
18:29 sapier but I disagree that using libraries in general will help, security is only as good as library itself, and there are plenty of broken libs out there but just a few proofen ones
18:29 sapier so decision of what library to use is as important as using a library at all
18:30 xyz just use openssl
18:31 sapier openssl is one of the most proven libs for sure, gnupg (used by curl) might be another option
18:32 sapier yet adding encrypted communication will increase requirements for local password storing too ;-)
18:33 sapier I'm not gonna implement secure communications but I won't stop anyone from doing it, and I will assist where possible of course
18:36 iqualfragile libotr contains smp irrc
18:36 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
18:36 iqualfragile iirc
18:38 sapier I'm not sure if otr is right thing to use, does anyone how it performs for large data transfers?
18:39 Amaz left #minetest-dev
18:39 xyz sapier: so what do you suggest for local password storage?
18:40 sapier right now I don't suggest any change but we have to talk about it once secure communication is most likely to be merged
18:41 Evolykane joined #minetest-dev
18:42 celeron55 this is the go-to solution for cross-platform up-to-date "don't write your own crypto" things: https://github.com/jedisct1/libsodium
18:42 xyz other apps just store password in plaintext and no one ever had problems with that
18:44 celeron55 (using openssl is quite DIY these days)
18:44 sapier "no one intends to build a wall"  ... "no one is watching american citizens" ... "no one has to fear anything" ...
18:44 celeron55 (and if someone wants to use openssl, use gnupg instead because of licenses)
18:46 sapier and storing passwords in cleartext wasn't even state of art yesterday ... of course that doesn't stop people from using stone age softwar
18:47 xyz yeah well, your point?
18:48 xyz storing them in a keychain?
18:48 xyz and ask for a password to this keychain which kinda defeats the purpose
18:49 sapier that's the problem that solution would only help if someone regularly connects to different servers
18:50 sapier but why do people compain about having to enter a password for minetest they have to do this for any web service
18:51 xyz no
18:51 xyz for web people can just use browser's password save
18:52 xyz games typically save passwords, don't they?
18:52 xyz people are used to this behavior
18:52 sapier I don't know as all online games I know require some kind of "I herby sell my sole to (google/valve/apple/microsoft/....)
18:54 celeron55 well just generate a keypair on the client and use public key crypto to get in like ssh 8)
18:54 sapier not storing passwords in browser internal password storage is one of number one suggerstions to improve security ... everyone recommends to use a password safe which is locked by a master password
18:54 xyz yet people still do that
18:55 sapier yes just using ssl to encrypt connection would probably most easy and reliable way to do
18:55 sapier because most ppl just can't understand what they're doing, that's not a excuse to those knowing
18:57 xyz hmm...
18:58 xyz sapier: your irc client stores passwords in plain text, also nice read https://developer.pidgin.i​m/wiki/PlainTextPasswords
18:58 sapier that's why I use a nonsense password for irc
18:59 sapier irc isn't encrypted anyway
19:00 xyz that's not true
19:00 ShadowNinja It has the option via SSL/TLS.
19:00 sapier the only reason why I'm registred at all is because I lot of people kept asking me to do so, I still se no reason for doing it except of avoiding to be asked to do so twice a day
19:01 xyz my point: no need to implement any security around storing passwords/hashes (like keychains, etc); if you're willing to do so then I won't object anyway since it's your time, just don't forget to add an option to turn password-protected storage off
19:02 sapier basicaly this irc thing is same as minetests current security state, with the small difference that you gamers usualle know even less about security then irc users
19:03 sapier as long as we don't have encrypted communication you're absolutely right about no need to encrypt hashes
19:04 ShadowNinja Actually, IRC is fairly secure, in fact I know of a network that requires TLS with SHA-256, and a number of other things to keep everything securely encrypted.
19:06 ShadowNinja Minetest needs some work.  In fact I beleive SHA-1 was depreciated a few years ago...
19:06 sapier yes
19:07 sapier because it was supposed to be broken in a few years by that time, as far as I know this hasn't happend by now ... but who knows what nsa knows
19:08 ShadowNinja Well, better to be overly secure than inadequately so.
19:09 sapier the only reason why I demand non cleartext passwords beeing saved right now is to protect users from their own ignorance ... I assume they will use passwords the better not should use for minetest
19:09 xyz sapier: nah, my point should be applied to both encrypted and unencrypted communications
19:11 ShadowNinja We should also be using a long, random hash that isn't the username.
19:11 sapier sorry don't understand, "your point" is  disabling it?
19:11 celeron55 ShadowNinja: it's not deprecated; it's deprecated for certain uses (like password hashing)
19:12 celeron55 sha1 and even md5 and even md4 are fine for eg. checksumming files
19:12 john_minetest ShadowNinja: Your server lags a lot. Especially when placing those iron bars that rearrange with everything.
19:12 sfan5 how about we use crc32 for passwords? /s
19:12 john_minetest oops, wrong channel
19:12 celeron55 sfan5: lol 8)
19:12 sfan5 It is especially hard to brute force crc32
19:13 ShadowNinja celeron55: Well, what a coincidence, that's what we're using it for. ;-)
19:13 john_minetest I am installing john right now. john the ripper, cracker tool.
19:13 john_minetest Can crash a lot of hashes by bruteforce
19:14 sfan5 john_minetest: want a script that turns auth.txt into something understood by jtr
19:14 john_minetest I'd just take that hash and put it into a file and bruteforce it.
19:15 sfan5 there is a salt too..
19:15 Exio4 is it $username-?? or $username??
19:16 Exio4 with ?? being the pwd
19:16 xyz sapier: no, my point is that "no need to implement any security around storing passwords/hashes (like keychains, etc); if you're willing to do so then I won't object anyway since it's your time, just don't forget to add an option to turn password-protected storage off"
19:16 xyz i didn't say anything about encrypted/unencrypted network
19:17 sapier I consider storing passwords something completely different to storing hashes, maybe that's why I don't understand
19:18 sfan5 Exio4: sha1(${username}${password}) IIRC
19:18 ShadowNinja Exio4: https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/blob/master/src/util/string.cpp#L61
19:18 xyz sapier: well, i think both are fine
19:56 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
20:15 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
20:16 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
20:21 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
20:26 Akien joined #minetest-dev
20:28 werwerwer_ joined #minetest-dev
20:32 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
20:42 xiong What code base controls the public server list?
20:43 xiong Do I raise an issue against 'minetest' itself?
20:43 proller wat?
20:44 xiong A public server list is displayed in the client main menu. This is also available, in more detail, on a web page. Where should I raise an issue against the list itself -- not the rendering of it?
20:46 celeron55 it's in the main minetest repo, util/masterserver
20:47 celeron55 with BlockMen about 3rd person view: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6717038/
20:47 xiong Excellent. How do, celeron55?
20:47 celeron55 we probably need to whip up a preliminary lua api for setting those
20:47 celeron55 but not implement it yet because lazy (and lua and networking stuff is too hard to implement anyway)
20:48 celeron55 xiong: so the issue belongs in minetest's issue tracker
20:48 xiong Yes, thanks. How are you doing, celeron55?
20:48 celeron55 the thing that provides the list is called the masterserver (doh) and it's hosted by thexyz (so hosting issues go to him)
20:49 celeron55 xiong: i'm finnish so i don't like that question! but according to your culture, i should say "fine, thanks"
20:49 xiong What do Finns say?
20:50 celeron55 they grumble something funny
20:50 xiong Well we do that too. Some people, if you say "Good Morning!" they grumble, "What's good about it!?"
20:51 xiong I meant to ask what sort of greeting you do like.
20:52 celeron55 that was the answer to that question
20:53 xiong Well, in any case, Greetings.
20:54 xiong https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1092
20:56 celeron55 oh and, proller, who said "wat?", is the one who develops the masterserver
20:56 proller we cant add all random flags to list
20:56 proller "angry admin"
20:56 proller "griefers disalloewed"
20:57 celeron55 i'd guess just prefixing the server name with "TEST: " would be enough
20:57 celeron55 ...as proller already commented on the issue (slow me)
20:59 proller now you can see at "uptime" and "age" of server map - it it low (less than hour) - server 99% temporary
20:59 celeron55 anyway about this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6717038/
21:00 celeron55 or, really, nothing in particular about that; but there's that and it seems to largely work while not messing with a terrible amount of stuff
21:00 celeron55 and it seems to be wanted by a number of people
21:00 celeron55 so i will merge some variant of it unless someone objects or wants to develop it more
21:01 celeron55 (and that is 3rd person view, for the logs)
21:01 xiong Testing may go on a long time; live servers may go down for backup every day. The concept of a testing server is a personal view that must be expressed; it cannot be inferred.
21:02 sapier joined #minetest-dev
21:02 celeron55 yes; name and description are for those personal views that cannot be inferred
21:03 xiong There may be a practical limit to the number of flags displayed in the list; however an identical argument can be made against any such flag: C, D, P, etc.
21:03 celeron55 in fact, most of the flags could be inferred by joining the server
21:03 xiong The point of a flag is to indicate to a player whether he might want to attempt to join at all.
21:04 xiong Whether the server is testing or live is a critical point. I mandate no metadata in identifiers; that's the Hungarian bump route.
21:04 celeron55 but the meaning of "testing" is very fuzzy too
21:04 celeron55 for someone it might mean something completely different than for someone else
21:04 xiong Everything is fuzzy.
21:04 celeron55 flags are gotten from actual server configuration
21:04 celeron55 so they aren't fuzzy
21:05 xiong Why debate this so hard? It's an obviously good idea. If you don't like it, I can't force it.
21:05 xiong You don't gain anything additional by "proving" me wrong.
21:05 proller maybe i want "dev" "RC" "stable" flags to my server..
21:05 BlockMen celeron55, some variant of it?
21:06 celeron55 yes i don't; but as it seems proller doesn't see the need for it and i don't particularly care, i'm trying to see if you have some argument for it that would make sense for everyone
21:06 xiong Yes, proller; that's would be okay too -- except the additional complexity now needs to be explained. 'T' is well understood.
21:06 celeron55 BlockMen: assuming someone develops it more
21:06 xiong celeron55, it's like a lot of things: blatantly obvious.
21:07 celeron55 let's just wait for someone else to come up and comment
21:07 xiong If you think you can set the flag programmatically, great. Accumulate uptime data and set a bar. Therefore all servers join the list with T set; and that flag is only cleared after crossing that performance standard.
21:08 BlockMen ic. in general i will continue developing it, but ofc other can take care of it too
21:08 xiong I've come to notice that the majority of servers in the public list are unplayable for one reason or another. I've also come to believe that many are not intended to be played. I know I run a testing server and I tell players upfront to expect nothing.
21:09 proller maybe UNSTABLE flag if uptime less ~30 minutes and age less ~2 days
21:09 celeron55 why is it in the list then?
21:09 celeron55 maybe you have misunderstood the purpose of the list and maybe it shouldn't even contain those testing servers
21:09 celeron55 (i don't know the purpose of the list)
21:10 sapier celeron that mesh fix floods console
21:11 Gethiox joined #minetest-dev
21:11 celeron55 sapier: what is "that mesh fix"
21:11 sapier now on activation of each entity a "Loaded mesh: .... " is show
21:12 celeron55 i know
21:12 celeron55 also it re-loads them every time without caching a single one; there's a comment in the code about that with a suggestion of improvement
21:12 xiong proller, servers do go down for daily backup -- just restarting the server regularly seems to improve matters, deal with leaked memory and so forth. So it's asking too much to say that the server should be running continuously for X hours.
21:12 sapier I haven't explicitly checked but I guess this is it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/d76957ee22c27adab89cee551e3ab1c85d8717cc
21:14 xiong However, a given address *and* port -- since multiple servers run from one address -- will accumulate some % of uptime. I'd say, roughly, 95% uptime with restart intervals averaging 6 hours or more constitutes stability.
21:15 xiong Still, please provide a setting that operators can use to override and declare a testing server regardless of uptime. I ran a testing server for a week without a restart and wiped it without regret or notice.
21:16 xiong Note that the client does not display enough characters in each item to permit verbose descriptions, which are only available after user has selected.
21:16 proller why tou cant place TESTING: to name?
21:17 xiong Because then that's the entire displayed name.
21:17 celeron55 do enough users understand the flags in any case?
21:17 celeron55 a flag is not some magic wand of understanding
21:17 xiong C clearly is creative; P is, I imagine, PvP. I don't know what D means.
21:17 xiong No; nothing is magic. :(
21:18 xiong Might be nice to explain the flags in the client, too.
21:19 celeron55 ...well, they're probably going to be replaced by images once someone manages to get that functionality in the gui system
21:19 Calinou D = Dedicated
21:19 Calinou err no
21:19 Calinou it's Damage enabled
21:19 celeron55 even i don't know what those flags mean, lol
21:19 Calinou * is password required
21:20 Calinou "Ded" stands for dedicated, it's a flag that doesn't appear in-game, only on the web list
21:20 Calinou it appears if the server is not run from a client
21:20 Calinou "liq" is finite liquid, also doesn't appear in-game
21:20 Calinou "rol" is rollback, I guess
21:21 kaeza "password required" flag is kinda useless, as you can check that by simply trying to join
21:21 celeron55 kaeza: you can check everything by trying to join
21:21 Exio4 you can know if it is creative by joining too
21:21 Exio4 damn
21:21 celeron55 we don't need even names, just join and see 8D
21:21 Exio4 ^
21:21 kaeza celeron55, you can't know if it's survival or creative before actually joining
21:21 kaeza but meh
21:22 celeron55 anyway, i'm not against the flag; if more people would like it, tell that to proller
21:23 celeron55 (this you should be doing without me requesting it)
21:23 kaeza I'm not against it, just giving an opinion
21:24 kaeza (I almost never play online anyway because crappy 3G)
21:24 xiong It's possible to argue that it's pointless to describe any server in the public list because players don't care and join randomly, wreak havoc, and move on.
21:24 proller [far future] in game flags must be show as images with hover tooltip with long description
21:25 xyz I think it's already possible with kahrl's formspec table
21:25 xyz at least images are
21:26 sapier guess we should merge the formspec table soon
21:27 BlockMen left #minetest-dev
21:32 celeron55 what's stopping it from being merged?
21:32 Evolykane joined #minetest-dev
21:33 sapier as far as I know the only reason is no one did it by now
21:42 ShadowNinja Are nodeboxes still "EXPERIMENTAL"?  I think not...
21:44 ShadowNinja I'll fix this in a minute: <Peacock> https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2013 <--- missing "wielditem"
21:46 ShadowNinja The only other thing marked experimental is the HUD API, I guess that's unlikely to drasticaly change at this point too, although maybe not.
21:59 charles_ joined #minetest-dev
22:00 Megaf joined #minetest-dev
22:04 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
22:08 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
22:19 ShadowNinja I'll push #1084 in a while too.
22:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1084 -- Add InvRef::get/set_lists() by ShadowNinja
22:21 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Can you look at #1061?
22:21 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: Error: ProcessTimeoutError: Process #230 (for String.re) aborted due to timeout.
22:22 ShadowNinja https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1061 -- Crash with no error message with `minetest.place_schematic` and table schematic specifier.
22:23 ShadowNinja kahrl: Is this ready?  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/920
22:27 ShadowNinja I don't like how this means that players have to be kept loaded: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/804
22:33 ShadowNinja This seems good, any comments? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/706
22:39 sapier for most other formspec elements scale factors are multiples of inventory item size is this different in hud?
22:43 ShadowNinja GCC warnings: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6717607/ clang has a whole bunch of them: https://travis-ci.org/minet​est/minetest/jobs/16617091
22:43 ShadowNinja sapier: The HUD uses percentage values and pixels.
22:44 sapier hmm someone musthave been sleeping when this was added :-(
22:44 ShadowNinja sapier: The formspec or the HUD?  :-)
22:46 sapier as formspec was there before hud should've been implemented consistent ... but it's to late so we need to ensure consistency within each somehow separate thing ... lets hope noone ever wants to use formspecs as hud elements
22:47 ShadowNinja sapier: No, the formspec system doesn't scale to the HUD at all, it's essentially pixel values multiplied by some unknown number.
22:47 sapier the "unknown" number is calculated as fraction of current window size ... same as inventory item sizes
22:48 sapier that's why formspecs grow if you increase window
22:48 sapier except of mainmenu I added a fixed size mod for this
22:50 ShadowNinja That's hacky.
22:50 sapier yes but pilzadam insisted on mainmenu having fixed size
22:51 ShadowNinja Just use percentage values.  It would be nice if the HUD was just a 100% width formspec with a clear background that didn't prevent playing.
22:51 sapier you could use this from in game too if you had a parameter in size field
22:51 sapier sorry but I think we're talking about different things
22:52 ShadowNinja +pixel values for things that need to be absolute.
22:52 sapier as you tell hud already does use pixel values so it has to use them in future too
22:53 sapier while formspec doesn't so it can't switch to pixel anytime soon too
22:54 emptty joined #minetest-dev
22:54 emptty Hello there
22:54 ShadowNinja Well, formspecs badly need a redesign.  The inventory item scale thing can be changed then.
22:55 emptty Can the recent versions of minetest be built without luajit ?
22:55 sapier you know my opinion about formspecs, bad but not as bad as requireing immediate action
22:56 emptty I have a bug against the debian package because luajit is not available on some of our architectures: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-b​in/bugreport.cgi?bug=734461
22:56 sapier as far as I know lua is still default
23:16 ShadowNinja emptty: Yes, but only by removing the system lib or modifying CMakeLists.txt.
23:18 emptty ShadowNinja: I'm currently trying to compile on an host where lua-dev is installed but not luajit(-dev), and cmake didn't complain
23:18 emptty I'll soon tell you whether it compiles till the end, and whether it works afterward
23:19 ShadowNinja emptty: Lua 5.1 is bundled.
23:19 emptty not in the debian package. It's prunned
23:19 ShadowNinja Well, that's good.
23:20 emptty we use the system libs as much as possible. We are a distro ;)
23:20 ShadowNinja But apparently the lib location varies by distro, so we can't do that.
23:20 emptty sure
23:22 ShadowNinja What happened to the travis integration in pull requests?  It still builds pulls, but the results don't show up.
23:22 ShadowNinja xyz: Do you know anything about ^?
23:24 Megaf joined #minetest-dev
23:29 emptty of course I had to patch a bit the CMakeList.txt to build with the system lua when luajit is not available, but it seems under control
23:39 zat joined #minetest-dev
23:44 IceCraft joined #minetest-dev
23:57 sapier left #minetest-dev
23:57 zat joined #minetest-dev
23:58 us_0gb joined #minetest-dev

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext