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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-01-04

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10:03 xiong I've tried asking in #minetest; nobody seems to know. Is it true that bundling mods in a modpack does not allow them to be enabled in worlds.mt as a single unit? That is, if a/ contains modpack.txt, b/, and c/ then load_mod_a = true does nothing?
10:05 xiong Also: Is there any alternative ( >= 0.4.7 ) to placing mods in ~/.minetest/mods/ under Linux globally installed?
10:06 sapier no but that's supposed to work and is a ugly fixable bug
10:06 sapier meaning it's ugly to fix it at least all variants of fixing I know
10:13 xiong Um sorry, my fault for asking two related questions at once. Which is the bug?
10:15 sapier if I remember correct mainmenu does only honor one mod folder, the one which can be written to by user
10:16 xiong sapier, I'm running a genuine server; so no main menu.
10:16 sapier hmm ok then this bug shouldn't affect you
10:17 xiong Can I sidestep this all by considering modpack a broken feature, done? Then, if I want to consider mods as a unit in any way, all I'm left with is a game, a replacement for minetest_game.
10:17 xiong Okay whoa; I went ahead too fast.
10:18 sapier no I don't know how it's supposed to behave for mods in modpacks ;-) maybe this is a bug but could be a design decision too
10:19 xiong All mods must either go in ~/.minetest/mods/ or some minetest/games/this_game/ -- correct?
10:20 xiong Further: all mods in games/this_game are loaded if this_game is loaded; but each mod in mods/ must be enabled in worlds.mt -- correct?
10:21 sapier as far as I know mods from game don't have to be enabled explicitly in worlds.mt
10:21 sapier but I'm not sure about that
10:22 xiong Apparently not; since the template worlds.mt created for a new world contains no such thing; but the mods that ship with minetest_game are indeed active.
10:22 xiong Also, those mods are not mentioned in minetest_game/game.conf.
10:23 xiong So -- to take a shortcut recapping my thoughts -- the 'game' feature seems to do what I'd expect the 'modpack' feature to do.
10:24 xiong The modpack feature seems to be nothing more than a flag to tell the engine to descend the dir structure.
10:25 sapier yes
10:25 xiong Right, thank you.
10:25 xiong So naturally I think, Okay, I'll make it a game instead.
10:26 xiong Let me show you this: https://github.com/minetest-techn​ic/technic_game/tree/master/mods
10:27 xiong When first I saw that I thought, Okay, these guys are doing it that way -- bundling all mods in one 'game'.
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10:27 xiong Then my next thought was, Why did they copy some of the mods -- like, cut and paste; like blame -- and the others as proper git submodules?
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10:28 sapier guess they did modifications to those they copied
10:29 xiong So I figured that most of those were mods included in minetest_game and they couldn't figure out how to structure that as a git submodule, since it's not all in a subdir.
10:29 xiong They copied all, no exceptions I see.
10:29 sapier ok so my guess is wrong :-)
10:30 xiong Of course, since they're *not* in a proper submodule there is no easy way to check what's been changed and what's not... which is why I think they should all be submodules.
10:30 xiong But: https://github.com/minetest/m​inetest_game/tree/master/mods
10:32 xiong ... so it seems that all these mods have been... reparented?... as integral to the main game. Which puts us in the weird position of having to consider the novel code as a submodule of a fork.
10:33 xiong I've been pounding my head against this for most of the last 12 hours.
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11:09 xiong ...
11:10 xiong Okay, here's another question: I have a server and a client both running 0.4.8 exactly. When I run the server and connect the client I still get the warning that my client might be incompatible. Why?
11:10 wdna Hay! just found out about this game, LUA modding interface =] I was looking for a game to start doing some modding on, with LUA. Just found one.
11:11 pitriss wdna: for modding please go to #minetest . This channel is supposed for C/C++ core dev
11:14 wdna I'm actually more interested in the C++ stuff also, and how Lua binds to C++. I;m just learning to develop games in general..
11:16 wdna If i'll understand this, I could make my own modding interfaces for the C++ based games i'll do.
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17:56 celeron55 hmm yeah, fixing all the things in this sailfish port is not really worth it at the moment
17:57 john_minetest sailfish?
17:58 john_minetest What is that OS? Never heard of it.
17:58 john_minetest Oh, looks interesting.
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18:07 celeron55 http://c55.me/random/2014-01/P1140094.JPG
18:08 sfan5 >not having a tidy desk
18:09 celeron55 >doing nothing on your desk
18:09 sfan5 I wish the main menu would work for me
18:10 celeron55 it controls like utter shit and is awful otherwise too because touchscreen and unpolished controls and broken multitouch in my sdl2 backend and whatever; even one of those is enough to make it bad 8)
18:10 xyz hey, the controls are awesome!
18:12 celeron55 but it does run; i even implemented a ridiculous text input method where it launches a small Qt/QML application to ask for text input 8D
18:12 rubenwardy lol
18:12 celeron55 because the virtual keyboard doesn't work otherwise
18:13 celeron55 there's no real reason to use this thing other than that if you like gnu/linux on a phone
18:14 celeron55 (which is quite awesome in itself though, but it doesn't help minetest work on a touchscreen)
18:15 specing celeron55: suggestion: make those buttons much transparent
18:16 xyz of course they're supposed to be transparent
18:16 specing does that Jolla have a sensor from which phone tilt could be measure?
18:16 xyz I just didn't have nice sprites
18:16 specing tilt controls are better suited for moving around that pressing buttons
18:17 xyz did you even try?
18:17 specing no
18:18 xyz I don't think they'll be convenient although I myself haven't tried them either
18:25 celeron55 they're at least just as clumsy
18:26 jin_xi swing your phone around to dig
18:26 celeron55 lol
18:26 celeron55 a good touch interface could be some kind of third person building-focused one
18:26 celeron55 but that would probably suck because of lack of precision
18:27 celeron55 one that would work would be a simle viwer that would just show what is happening on a server
18:28 celeron55 you could just watch it instead of trying to do something yourself; that seems what these don't suck so immensely much at
18:29 celeron55 +p
18:30 xyz people don't care much about it
18:30 xyz people care about the ability to play
18:30 xyz they're fine with awful controls, especially if we tell them that it's a pc game port
18:31 celeron55 i know... it's sad thoug
18:31 celeron55 +h
18:31 xyz also /me has reported all new apps from that chinese company to google, and you all should do that too
18:31 xyz https://play.google.com/stor​e/apps/developer?id=Kevin.de
18:33 celeron55 oh btw, you might want to check through some of the commits in my sailfish branch
18:33 celeron55 i had to fix the touchscreen gui code a bit
18:34 xyz alright
18:34 xyz thanks
18:36 xyz can you tell me what was wrong?
18:38 rubenwardy Is someone going to grab the developer id of "Minetest"?
18:39 rubenwardy (It costs £15/$30)
18:39 Exio4 /year?
18:39 celeron55 xyz: i don't really know; it might not happen on android
18:39 celeron55 the code was kind of hard to fully understand 8)
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18:40 rubenwardy nore, one off
18:40 rubenwardy nore, one of
18:40 rubenwardy nore, one off
18:40 rubenwardy ffs
18:40 rubenwardy no, one off
18:40 celeron55 https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commi​t/d268d7d48094588bc101f6920987648f7662ad4e#​diff-6b75ea22819f4d5defbe2d5f47f51abdR141
18:40 celeron55 the stuff in there at least
18:41 celeron55 maybe not others
18:42 celeron55 also that sleep should happen only on android (otherwise this commit is sailfish-specific) https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commi​t/37ef0c475626b140e8c274fa7a436f9cc1d6aa43#​diff-7ec3c68a81efff79b6ca22ac1f1eabbaR827
18:42 rubenwardy no, one off
18:43 xyz yes, and it could be removed already since I've resolved that issue
18:43 celeron55 (the next commit of the first one removes the debug loggings so squashing them is useful)
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20:37 ShadowNinja proller: *poke* The masterserver has to be fixed.
20:38 proller need to make POST query
20:38 proller its 42% harder than get 8(
20:42 proller or you can disable mod list sending
20:53 ShadowNinja The list should be named list.json.  And the masterserver script should be a lot more readable, perhaps rewrite it in PHP or Python.
20:54 * sfan5 agrees that perl is usually not readable
20:55 Exio4 but php.. but python
20:55 sfan5 I'd be fine with php, but python would be nicer
20:55 ShadowNinja https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/blob/master/util/master/master.cgi
20:56 ShadowNinja The problem with Python is that it isn't really designed for web use, so using it can be slower than PHP which has dynamic pools of processes and the like.
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21:12 proller you have @#$%phobia?
21:16 proller and masterserver can process some post queries
21:17 proller and if you cant read perl - its not perl readable, its you
21:18 ShadowNinja Um, that perl is hard to read, maybe it coule be rewritten better in perl, but perl isn't really designed for nice, readable code.
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22:46 ShadowNinja So, should I add and apply labels on GitHub for the sections?  That seems like the best way to do it (You can't easily check for open pulls in your section(s) with comments, among other things).
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23:14 celeron55 ShadowNinja: it seems like the only useful way of doing it
23:15 celeron55 i think they should be prefixed with "session_" and we need to give them proper short names and not those this/that/somes-stuff names
23:15 celeron55 (the latter should be kept for clarity in the wiki)
23:16 celeron55 ehj
23:16 celeron55 s/session/section/g
23:16 celeron55 i was going to go sleep already 8)
23:16 ShadowNinja We can use spaces though. :-)
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23:24 celeron55 hmm, apparently they work just fine without short names
23:24 celeron55 let's keep them like that
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23:51 ShadowNinja I've taged the first page.  Some things may need to be moved, but it's a start...
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