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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-12-22

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 sapier sorry proller but thats freeminer not minetest
00:01 proller sapier, its broken in minetest
00:01 sapier this may or may not be a bug in stable too but I don't intend to spend time on verifying this guess
00:02 VanessaE proller: standard answer, "Can you reproduce this with the latest git of Minetest"?  ;)
00:03 proller yes, all 3+ cores
00:03 proller in tests, in connection break, in disconnect, in mod store
00:03 proller everywhere
00:04 proller http threads totally broken
00:10 sapier proller why is there done a kill on shutting down gui engine?
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00:10 proller i dont know
00:11 proller i can make ipv6 only freebsd jail for tests
00:11 proller if somebody wants to debug
00:12 sapier for what I remember async engine is supposed to ask the thread for shutting down, wait for shutdown, and do a kill for safety. But kill is not supposed to kill anything
00:13 sapier vanessaE never ever try to add a graphic with more then 32mb ;-)
00:13 VanessaE you mean as a server tex pack?
00:13 sapier no a single graphic
00:13 VanessaE dare I ask what happens?
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00:14 VanessaE server blowed up? :)
00:14 sapier terrible things
00:14 VanessaE I think I may already have a couple that are that big
00:14 VanessaE *checks HDX*
00:14 VanessaE nope
00:15 VanessaE biggest is 8.9M (animated, flowing lava, 512px)
00:15 sapier sequence number is a 16 bit value so there are at most 32mb available with separate sequence numbers ... some overhead needs to be substracted too ... so I guess it's somewhere aroung 30 ... maybe less
00:15 VanessaE ...and only because for reasons that escape me, all we allow for an animated format is vertical frames (no stacked frames ala GIF, or movie formats, e.g. ogv)
00:16 iqualfragile why not apng
00:16 VanessaE iqualfragile: not supported by irrlicht I think
00:17 VanessaE doesn't matter, offtopic
00:17 VanessaE sapier: perhaps it would be a good idea to add a sanity check somewhere in the image loader then :)
00:19 sapier might be usefull
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10:17 thexyz VanessaE: neither gif nor ogv is supported by irrlicht
10:17 VanessaE I know.
10:18 thexyz so do you want someone to spend their precious time implementing gif parser for Irrlicht instead of, well, making the game better?
10:18 VanessaE why it doesn't support those, I don't understand, as both are quite free now.
10:18 thexyz gif is shit
10:18 VanessaE (well ogv always has been)
10:19 VanessaE gif is shit but it's also ubiquitous.
10:19 VanessaE and quite adequate for some things
10:19 thexyz and then why would you support movie formats?
10:19 thexyz and in which way
10:19 thexyz anyway, this discussion is not productive
10:19 VanessaE what does it matter?  it isn't supporte and nebver wwill be
10:19 VanessaE ugh, terrible typing.
10:20 thexyz yes, probably
10:20 thexyz unless you go on and implement it
10:20 thexyz because no one thinks there's a need
10:20 VanessaE "not productive", says the guy who raised the qeustion like 8 hours after I mentioned it entirely in passing.
10:21 VanessaE if it was nonproductive to mention it...um...why did you bring it up?
10:23 VanessaE I mentioned it then because animated images were the only way I could conceive of to get the huge image sizes sapier and I were discussing guarding against.  That part of the discussion was hypothetical.
10:26 thexyz ah well
10:26 thexyz I still don't understand why can't we just switch to enet
10:26 thexyz and also implement messagepack
10:26 thexyz instead of adding more and more restrictions
10:26 thexyz and "fixing" the current implementation
10:28 VanessaE "more and more restrictions"?
10:38 thexyz well, not more and more; we just only get to know about them now
10:38 thexyz "never ever try to add a graphic with more then 32mb"
10:39 VanessaE oh that
10:39 thexyz it's not that you'll ever need that, but the restriction already says something about the implementation
10:39 VanessaE yes
10:39 VanessaE well it comes from the same basic idea about gifs and ogv and the like:
10:40 thexyz hm?
10:40 VanessaE the reason I wanted them in the first place is that animations have a limited size if they're a vertical strip.  The bigger the frame size, the shorter the length of the animation, because irrlicht can't load a file that has a vertical height of more than 16348 pixels.
10:41 VanessaE so for example at 512px an animation could only be 32 frames.
10:41 VanessaE just thirty two.
10:41 thexyz I think what you're doing is a bit crazy
10:42 VanessaE use a gif or ogv or some other format where the "frames" are stored sequentially and that restriction goes away - but we can't d that because irrlicht can't
10:42 VanessaE what I'm doing?  is nothing.  I have as yet done exactly nothing that needs that many frames.
10:42 VanessaE I'm talking about some time down the line.  what if I did?
10:43 VanessaE or wanted to, rather.
10:43 VanessaE oh s/16348/16384/
10:43 VanessaE (typo)
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10:45 VanessaE the point of that particular desire was that at some point in the future, I'm gonna find myself wishing I could fit *ust* a few more frames in, or even wishing I could play back a short full-motion video (hell, I already wish I could), but I can't.
10:45 VanessaE *just**
10:45 thexyz fine
10:47 thexyz hm.. we can have two dimensions though
10:49 Taoki VanessaE: ogv as in videos on node faces?
10:49 VanessaE Taoki: precisely.
10:49 Taoki I don't think that's crazy. Quite possible... although I don't know specifically for Irrlicht
10:50 Taoki The only crazy part is the amount of data that might have to be transferred for such a thing. The media protocol is already slow enough with the 16x textures
10:50 VanessaE Taoki: imagine the TV in homedecor actually playing *video* instead of just showing a single image every several seconds
10:50 VanessaE that's the sorta thing I was referring to.
10:50 Taoki Yes. I like the idea
10:50 VanessaE (or that big screen that I never implemented)
10:50 Taoki Might waht to ask on #irrlicht about that or google "irrlicht video on surface" or something like that. Can't now cuz I need to leave soon
10:50 VanessaE yes, the amount of data would be crazy.  that's the problem.
10:51 Calinou "videos as textures" is something I've never seen in any game
10:51 VanessaE every rusted-out old web browser can show an animated gif.  why can't irrlicht?
10:51 Taoki Yeah. Though that's the modder's problem
10:51 Calinou you could use a .jpg or a .png as an animated texture
10:51 Taoki Calinou: Oh, it exists in some games. Or at least it's easily possible
10:52 Taoki Only example that comes to mind is Second Life (virtual space not game, but still 3D). You can have INTERACTIVE html pages on a 3D surface even, where you can click links / scroll / etc. like in a web browser
10:52 Taoki ag: You can create a cube, put a Youtube page on it, and play videos there
10:52 VanessaE but this is is all jut jabber, I didn't intend to start this conversation at all.  Sapier only warned against loading bloody huge images and those were the only ones I could possibly think of that could get that big by any means :-()
10:52 VanessaE :-)
10:52 VanessaE just*
10:53 Taoki I think some modern FPS games (with maps and stories behind them especially) do this too. In recent ones people probably encounter televisions that play stuff
10:53 Taoki DeusEx - Human Revolucion for instance... I remember it did that
10:53 Taoki **Revolution
10:55 Taoki Anyway, thexyz stated earlier that this isn't supported in Irrlicht. I assume he knows what he's talking about, so in this case we do have a serious problem in making this possible.
10:56 Taoki Althoooooooooooooough... http://irrlicht.sourceforge.ne​t/forum//viewtopic.php?t=6389
10:57 Calinou using an animated texture is the best way to simulate it
10:57 Calinou .jpg or .png
10:57 Calinou see water and lava textures
10:58 Taoki Calinou: Especially if the movie is of any useful resolution, a frame can be pretty big. If for example it's 256 x 256 (smallest reasonable resolution), and has over 1000 frames, the height of the image would have to be 2560000. I don't think that's even possible
10:58 VanessaE no image editor will ever handle that
10:59 Taoki What COULD work is if the video file can be automatically decomposed into a jpg sequence in memory, and the audio into an ogg file. Then those are automatically put in place
10:59 VanessaE even on a cluster.
10:59 Taoki Yeah
10:59 VanessaE decompressing a video into raw imagery would not work
10:59 VanessaE the resultant stream would be too big.
10:59 Taoki Each frame would have to be a different file. To keep things in order, each video should then be a different folder in media and cache
11:00 VanessaE you'd have to cache the video client side and play it from the compressed file
11:00 Taoki VanessaE: The client could do it still. The server sends the original ogv file, then once it has it the client extracts it.
11:01 Taoki Client must do the rendering after all, based on info it receives from server
11:01 Taoki But for this to work, Minetest must be compiled with a non-proprietary ffmpeg-like tool
11:02 Taoki Also, unpacking could take very long at connection time
11:03 VanessaE indeed so
11:04 Taoki But the idea would be: Client receives ogv file - Frames are unpacked into a sub-folder in the cache as jpg sequences, and frame rate is noted - Audio is unpacked into an ogg file - Make the audio file loop on that node. The image sequence loops at the remembered frame rate.
11:04 VanessaE something like this would definitely call for client-side video packs
11:04 VanessaE like technic-ambiance's client-side sound packs.
11:04 VanessaE if not present, client just gets some static image like the old Indian Head test card or something.
11:04 VanessaE ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wik​i/Indian-head_test_pattern )
11:06 VanessaE but, again,
11:07 VanessaE this is all academic, and way beyond the intention of the statement thexyz so grossly misinterpreted :)
11:08 Taoki I imagine some might find this both useless (supporting video in a system and world like Minetest) and might be afraid of the media jam and data transfer this could cause (which is a correct concern)
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13:15 sepi How can I spawn mobs from the mob framework?
13:15 sepi or will they spawn automatically only?
13:21 sepi Oh, I found out :)
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19:14 thexyz patch suggestion: https://github.com/xyzz/freeminer/commit/​f29abd5baa83a3333d748ea61d977190489160cd — according to my profiler this improves the performance (previously the `find()` call was marked as the slowest)
19:15 thexyz this adds a 8 kilobytes overhead to every abm
19:16 sapier are bitsets as ugly for multithreading as bitfields are?
19:17 thexyz sapier: what do you mean?
19:17 ShadowNinja getIds seems unrelated.
19:18 thexyz it is related
19:18 thexyz because it now can assign to std::bitset
19:18 sapier e.g. you can't actually use bitfields from different threads because you need to lock the whole thing for each access ... but this situation doesn't look like anything even close to that issue
19:19 sapier I guess that bitfield is runtime constant too isn't it?
19:19 thexyz that's true but this is also true for std::map which was used before
19:19 thexyz it's O(1), yeah
19:19 sapier -bitfield+bitset
19:20 sapier did you know maximum reliable on wire datasize is 16mb for minetest? once you pass that threshold nothing is guaranteed :-)
19:20 thexyz something like std::vector<char> would be faster (by a constant) but it'll eat more memory too
19:20 sapier per channel of course
19:20 thexyz nope, I've already replaced protocol with enet
19:20 sapier but we only use a single channel
19:20 thexyz without even looking at it D:
19:20 thexyz sapier: also you might be interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hny6ovvGR3Y
19:21 sapier with consequence you most likely don't even know where to look for issues beeing same ;-)
19:22 sapier no I'm not interested as long as you guys don't start participating with minetest community again ... ok that's mostly adressed to proller ;-)
19:22 thexyz I do
19:22 thexyz I've tried to convince you to switch to enet
19:22 thexyz but I failed
19:23 thexyz so now I'll just be showing the benefits it gives from time to time
19:23 thexyz to maybe finally convince everybody (again?)
19:23 sapier I do like enet too but I see some issues beeing same there ... and of course compatibility is an issue
19:23 thexyz also, it's weird for you to say we don't participate
19:24 thexyz I'm trying my hardest but it seems that things are going too slow here
19:24 sapier as I said that one is mostly addressed to proller
19:24 thexyz so I'm better off developing some new fun things instead of trying to make you merge those things
19:24 thexyz same is true for troller/proller I believe
19:25 troller for last 3 weeks we make much more than last 6 months in minetest
19:25 sapier things are going "slow" here, because doing a quick n dirty hack you don't have to defend is possible in your own fork, but not in a project where others contribute too
19:25 troller no.
19:25 thexyz hm, I guess you're right
19:26 sapier I can't remember a single feature addon proller/troller ever finished to a state it was mergable
19:26 sapier of course I follow pull request discussion in detail for about half a year only
19:26 thexyz slow n dirty hacks are better of course
19:27 sapier I ignore your last comment you know as well as all others we try to get good solutions
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19:28 thexyz yeah sure
19:31 thexyz sapier: any progress on your work on minetest network stack?
19:32 sapier progress yes final cleanup no ... that code was broken that multiple times I'm not even 100% sure I touched ground
19:32 thexyz alright
19:33 sapier I guess it did only work reliable for a low number of packets
19:34 Exio4 what is wrong about switching to enet?
19:34 Exio4 yes, compatability, support 0.3.x clients as you are on it
19:35 Exio4 compatibility*
19:38 sapier can anyone guarantee enet won't run into same issues just at 120 peers?
19:38 Exio4 enet is used in a lot of games I play; I can't think why it would be that bugged and still used
19:39 sapier as far as I know noone actually understands why we run into those problems so switching to any other lib may help or may not help
19:39 sapier Exio4 still there's the "right tool for right job"-rule do you have any proof enet is the right tool for our job?
19:39 Exio4 do you have any proof enet is NOT the right tool?
19:40 sapier I admit it seems to be ... but proof is different then doing a little bit of testing
19:40 Exio4 yeah, but the code will never get tested enough though, we're a small community
19:40 sapier so you suggest switching now ... and maybe switch again in half a year and then half a year later again?
19:40 Exio4 nope
19:41 Exio4 but don't throw it because "it may or may not be the proper thing" and try to fix the actual protocol
19:41 Exio4 if it isn't enet, it should be other thing, like udp+tcp that was suggested, or a fully tcp solution
19:41 Exio4 also, how old is minetest 3.x?
19:41 sapier All I say is breaking compatibility is not something you do twice a year so if we do this we're stuck with enet for some years. lets better be sure we don't have to write mountains of code around enet to workaround it's flaws
19:42 Exio4 you're already writing a mountain of code for workarond the actual network stack and the serialization format
19:42 Exio4 look at minetest 0.4.4
19:42 sapier I'm doing this fror educational reasons it's completely unrelated to enet
19:43 Exio4 ah
19:44 sapier one result is for example minetest original network code will never support packets(therefore files) > 32mb ... most likely usefull maximum is somewhere around 24 mb
19:44 Exio4 how https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases
19:44 Exio4 er
19:44 Exio4 s/how//
19:45 Exio4 0.4.4 -> 0.4.8+
19:45 sapier sorry lost red line what are you trying to tell?
19:46 Exio4 the compatibility 'between clients' was there for a whole year, isn't that enough time?
19:47 sapier >>>>>>>> lets better be sure we don't have to write mountains of code around enet to workaround it's flaws<<<<<<<
19:47 sapier that's my main issue
19:47 Exio4 well
19:47 Exio4 unless you write your own library for doing everything you want, i don't think we will get the perfect library anyway
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19:48 sapier right now we have our own library ... well .. it's broken and ugly but it's ours
19:48 Exio4 that was my point
19:49 Exio4 it is searching not for the perfect-library but the one that less workarounds, isn't it?
19:49 sapier and whoever decided to use 16 bit sequence number should have his ass kicked all day long
19:49 thexyz <sapier> right now we have our own library ... well .. it's broken and ugly but it's ours
19:49 thexyz and this is the problem I see with Minetest development
19:49 thexyz also called as NIH syndrome
19:50 thexyz err, *known as
19:50 Exio4 not invented here?
19:50 sapier I know but using irrlicht on the other hand you see what's happening on choosing wrong tool
19:51 troller also you make game with +- 0 players, not something like JS for billion users
19:51 troller you can broke compatibility every relese
19:51 Exio4 it is an extreme point
19:53 sapier guys decision for enet has already been made so just fix your work by that time I'm gonna know where the bottlenecks are and can tell you where you need to fix enet, hopfully it'll not be too difficult
19:54 sapier I still think it's wrong decision but I'm only a single person and obviously minetest community is more than one ;-P
19:55 thexyz I don't know what decision was made
19:55 thexyz the decision was to go with TCP + UDP afaik
19:55 sapier and irrlicht isn't a extreme point basically that's gonna happen anytime you can't push fixes upstream ... enet is a one man show, usually those aren't very likely to accept fixes ... but maybe someone else can tell more about that topic
19:55 Exio4 thexyz: yeah
19:55 troller connection.cpp is whole bottlneck
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19:55 thexyz Irrlicht is fast
19:56 Exio4 if you use it properly*
19:56 Exio4 like everything, eh ;)
19:56 sapier no minetest binary is the bottleneck .. proller please stop posting useless generics
19:57 sapier thexyz did you implement media sending through enet yet?
19:57 thexyz wat do you mean?
19:57 sapier textures models ...
19:57 thexyz everything works through enet now
19:58 thexyz (in my enet branch)
19:58 thexyz I haven't tested it with 100 megabytes file as I wanted to
19:58 troller some parts is good, some ugly and designed for 1 player
19:58 thexyz but it ~10 megabytes pretty fast
19:59 troller also need to test with gprs ugly connection
20:00 Exio4 i have a gprs-like network, i could try
20:00 Exio4 where was that branch?
20:01 thexyz Exio4: https://github.com/xyzz/freeminer/tree/enet
20:02 Exio4 thanks!
20:02 sapier how far is freeminer branch away from minetest master?
20:03 thexyz what freeminer branch?
20:03 sapier yours?
20:03 troller git diff freeminer/master | wc
20:04 iqualfragile minetest does not log umlauts in debug.txt/stdout
20:04 iqualfragile it instead only prints Character conversion failed!
20:04 sapier that's a codepage issue
20:05 sapier set internalization correct and it'll work
20:06 thexyz Exio4: connect to xyz.is:30000
20:06 iqualfragile sapier: how to?
20:07 sapier either in minetest.conf or by environment ... are you on windows or linux?
20:07 iqualfragile lin
20:07 sapier interesting by now codepage issues have been way more common for windows
20:08 sapier actually I guess there ain't a full solution ... btw this is result of a NIH library called gettext ;-)
20:08 sapier with a little help of NIH irrlicht
20:09 iqualfragile language = de should fix it?
20:09 sapier I already spent two weeks on trying to work around those libraries issues ... obviously not a full success
20:09 sapier LANGUAGE or LANG
20:09 sapier in env
20:09 sapier or language in minetest.conf
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20:56 ShadowNinja Me and VanessaE get that "Character conversion failed!" message a lot.  My $LANG is en_US.UTF-8.
20:56 sapier1 do you see them in log only or in game too?
20:57 ShadowNinja sapier1: From the IRC chat. (register_on_chat_message gets a converted string)
20:58 sapier1 oh form some external character device ... actually the only one who can fix this is irc chat converting any charset to the one minetest is configured
20:58 ShadowNinja It should happen with anything that calls wide_to_narrow with a charachter that isn't 0-128.
20:59 ShadowNinja sapier1: Nope, the issue's engine-side, I traced it to wode_to_narrow, anything that uses on_chat_message will have that issue.
20:59 sapier1 that doesn't help, f there's sent a chinese language character minetest can't decide from the  character itself what encpding is used
20:59 ShadowNinja wide_to_narrow*
20:59 kaeza hot to fix what isn't broken? (from our side)
20:59 kaeza how*
21:00 ShadowNinja The encoding is UTF-8, as my $LANG says.
21:00 sapier1 minetest relies on incoming character data to match the configured codepage, if this isn't true you get conversion failed messages
21:00 sapier1 most codepages have a lot of characters in common so the basic ones will work
21:01 ShadowNinja And how do I set the "codepage" to UTF-8.
21:01 ShadowNinja s/./?/
21:01 sapier1 but not umlauts for example, a windows codepage ä just isn't same number as UTF-8 ä
21:01 sapier1 UTF-8 is a codepage
21:02 ShadowNinja And how do I make Minetest use it?!
21:02 sapier1 but e.g. windows usually uses country specific codepages instead of utf8
21:02 sapier1 mintest usually uses it if you set it in LANG variable
21:02 sapier1 but as I said first make sure incoming data IS UTF-8
21:03 ShadowNinja minetest@arch:~ $ echo $LANG  -->  en_US.UTF-8
21:03 ShadowNinja Wait, so the client sends it in whatever encoding the client has?
21:04 sapier1 that'd be my first guess yes
21:04 ShadowNinja It should be hardcoded to UTF-8.
21:04 PilzAdam can someone explain this to me? https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/8088432
21:04 sapier1 ShadowNinja that's the problem you can't do that for windows
21:05 ShadowNinja Not even with C++11 codecvt?
21:06 sapier1 c++ doesn't specify codesets as far as I know
21:06 sapier1 the whole codepage + i18n thingy is just ugly everyone does different and we're stuck for a unsupported lib on win32 too
21:10 sapier1 feel free to try your own fix but be aware usually doing a fix for one platform will break another ;-)
21:11 ShadowNinja codecvt lets you specify UTF-8 (std::wstring_convert with codecvt_utf8).  Unfourtunately it's a C++11-only feature, so we would have to drop sopport for old compilers.
21:12 sapier1 I guess breaking compatibility to 99.9% of all environments really isn't an option
21:13 sapier1 isn't clang the only compiler with completed c++11 support right now?
21:13 ShadowNinja Um, gcc has it (IDK if it's 100%) And I imaging most comilers have at least partial support.
21:14 sapier1 I doubt gcc 4.7 has c++11 but I'm not sure about that
21:15 thexyz msvc
21:15 sapier1 and msvc2010 (default build env for windows) doesn't have either
21:15 sapier1 does it?
21:15 ShadowNinja Seems the only thing missing is "Minimal support for garbage collection and reachability-based leak detection".
21:15 thexyz it supports some subset of c++11
21:15 thexyz I think it's ok to use features that are widely supported
21:15 thexyz i.e. auto keyword
21:16 ShadowNinja Gcc 4.3 has support, and it gets better as the version increases.
21:16 sapier1 what about bsd?
21:17 sapier1 isn't proller stuck with some olde gcc version?
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21:17 thexyz it's broken anyway
21:17 Exio4 bsd users can use clang
21:17 thexyz as proller has reported
21:18 sapier1 ok if I don't have to update to some exotic kind of linux distibution I'm fine with c++11 but I'll not break my os for minetest for sure
21:19 sapier1 if it's not working with debian stable I'm out
21:19 ShadowNinja I take it you have 4.7, which supports most features.
21:19 sapier1 that's what I said ;-) debian stable
21:19 ShadowNinja http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx0x.html
21:19 thexyz so why do we need it?
21:20 sapier1 Shadow proposed some c++ extention to fix i18n ... but I guess it needs to be proofen if this is really true ;-)
21:21 ShadowNinja For std::wstring_convert, to convert wstrings to UTF-8 and not whatever the system uses.  Unless we can override the system's encoding at startup.
21:21 sapier we can override anything but irrlicht as well as gettext will override again ;-)
21:22 ShadowNinja :-|
21:22 sapier so hopefully that c++ feature wont be messed up same way it is now
21:22 sapier but without trying noone can tell
21:28 iqualfragile_ joined #minetest-dev
21:31 thexyz ah, wstrings
21:31 thexyz terrible, terrible stuff
21:32 thexyz I think all strings should be in UTF-8, and conversion should be done when you get them (i.e. chat input) or display
21:35 Gethiox joined #minetest-dev
21:43 celeron55 oh debian stable has 4.7 these days
21:43 celeron55 that means code is limited by visual studio 2010 until it is dropped (in favor of 2012)
21:47 thexyz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1064
21:51 Gethiox joined #minetest-dev
21:54 celeron55 thexyz: that was previously checked to be correct by the standard
21:55 celeron55 i'm not against changing it though; but there's nothing saying it shouldn't work
21:56 thexyz let's check it then
21:56 thexyz I only have some free draft though
21:57 thexyz const_reference operator []( size_type pos ) const ;
21:57 thexyz reference operator []( size_type pos );
21:57 thexyz Returns: If pos < size(), returns *(begin() + pos ). Otherwise, if pos == size(), the const version
21:57 thexyz returns charT(). Otherwise, the behavior is undefined.
21:58 thexyz (also, it doesn't work very well with msvc debug build and that's why I had to consult the standard)
22:00 celeron55 oh yeah, it was that thing where it matters whether the compiler thinks it is const or not
22:16 ShadowNinja Can someone check http://ix.io/9u2 to fix #233?
22:16 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/233
22:19 ShadowNinja I'll push it in a few minutes unless someone objects.
22:21 sapier seems to be fine
22:21 specing no STAHP!
22:21 sapier agreed
22:21 sapier no?
22:22 sapier what's wrong with it specing?
22:22 specing idk :P
22:22 specing so you are going to allow mode changes in protected territories?
22:24 ShadowNinja specing: They were before, if you weren't pointing at anything.
22:24 troller ServerMap: Written: 0 sector metadata files, 3952 block files, 20592 blocks in memory.
22:26 specing troller: du -hs ?
22:27 troller 3G
22:27 ShadowNinja sapier: Does https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/229 seem fine now?
22:27 troller 17581 player files
22:27 specing isn't 20k blocks in mem ... small?
22:27 specing 20k blocks is not many blocks
22:28 ShadowNinja troller: Well? And -> #minetest?
22:28 ShadowNinja sapier: And BTW it would have crashed before. (nil):get_player_name() isn't valid.
22:30 sapier you're right so go on ;-)
22:37 ShadowNinja sapier: "go on" == "push it"?
22:38 sapier yes
22:49 kahrl what do we do with the 6 open issues in the 0.4.9 milestone?
22:51 kahrl #1011: kind of hard to do anything about this within a day if it can't be reproduced
22:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1011
22:51 VanessaE well, also hard to reproduce it if github won't show us what it is :)
22:51 VanessaE 503.
22:51 sapier :-)
22:51 kahrl did I kill it?
22:51 VanessaE YOU BWOKE IT!
22:53 specing We are taking the site down for an emergency database maintenance. We should be back up shortly.
22:53 sapier oops hope we've got a copy of our repository ;-)
22:53 VanessaE now ya did it kahrl! :P
22:56 ShadowNinja Back.
22:58 VanessaE I wonder what happened..
22:59 PilzAdam whos going to say it?
22:59 VanessaE I have not seen this bug happen in a *very* long time in my own game.
22:59 VanessaE but in realtest I have seen it happen rarely.
23:03 iqualfragile_ kahrl: i could reproduce it
23:05 ShadowNinja I think I found it.  He uses minetest.get_node in sz_pos:node_get().
23:06 iqualfragile_ turns out i could reproduce it twice, just twice
23:11 ShadowNinja iqualfragile_: Where did you reproduce it? And what were you holding?
23:11 iqualfragile_ ironbucket with water
23:12 iqualfragile_ wanted to place water against a stoneblock, instead replaced the block
23:12 ShadowNinja iqualfragile_: ironbucket? Is that the regular bucket?
23:12 iqualfragile_ yes
23:13 ShadowNinja Default bucket has the same issue, I'll fix it.
23:14 iqualfragile_ great
23:21 ShadowNinja Does this look good? https://gist.github.com/ShadowNinja/8089636
23:21 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-dev
23:23 * VanessaE pours the now-fixed bucket on EvergreenTree so he'll properly take root.
23:23 * EvergreenTree takes root
23:23 VanessaE ShadowNinja: looks okay
23:23 EvergreenTree sudo -i
23:24 EvergreenTree Okay, I'm rooted now
23:45 specing What is up with buckets being disabled on many servers?
23:45 specing Fix grief in code, not by disabling such an useful feature.
23:45 sapier you can destroy things easyly on placing whater somewhere
23:47 ShadowNinja I disabled lavacooling, as that allows massive greifings.  But with a protection mod that supports the new API, fire disabled, and lavacooling disabled, it's pretty harmless.
23:50 kahrl ShadowNinja: looks good to me too
23:51 ShadowNinja Alright, pushing...
23:53 iqualfragile_ sapier: its its annoying that you jump off the strauß on every click, should only jump of if you hold the saddle
23:54 iqualfragile_ (and instead of removing the saddle it should give you a saddle_off item)
23:55 sapier hmm but you shouldn't be able to dig from upon ostrich?

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