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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-12-21

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Time Nick Message
00:00 kaeza well, execute is a huge security flaw anyway :P
00:00 hmmmm this goes back to sapier's security hardening
00:00 hmmmm I guess it's just a caveat users must be aware of
00:00 VanessaE I could see os.execute() + wget + io.open() for example.
00:01 kaeza ah Traxie had a mod auto-updater using curl from command line
00:01 VanessaE no worse, really, than installing a web browser plugin/addon or downloading some random voxel sandbox game from teh interwebz ;)
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03:14 ShadowNinja I partially implemented a global ban system, but the client-side was difficult without a proper API.  AFAIK that still isn't implemented.  This is also a good use case for write_json.
03:15 ShadowNinja The main menu uses download_file, but that doesn't support POST and is probably private or unsupported (and synchronous).
03:52 kaeza comments? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1062
03:58 us`0gb kaeza: I like the file addition, but if it is specifying the module name, why does the "-master" need to be removed as well?
03:58 kaeza us`0gb, the mod_info.txt is optional
03:58 us`0gb Ah, got it.
03:59 us`0gb It seems like an issue that should be fixed in GitHub, not Minetest. That said, I don't think GitHub plans to fix it probably ever.
04:00 us`0gb I like the mod_info.txt for sure, I'm neutral about the "-master".
04:00 us`0gb Though if dashes were ever to be allowed in module names, that would be an issue.
04:00 kaeza the "-master" removal was kinda added as a nicety; the main point of the pull is the mod_info
04:01 us`0gb The removal seems .... I don't know, hacky? But then again, to would save a lot of trouble for new players.
04:02 us`0gb And anyone who doesn't know how to work a file system.
04:12 ShadowNinja kaeza: Why the setDefault? Shouldn't the exists check handle that? (Or vice versa)
04:14 kaeza derp
04:14 kaeza fixed
04:18 ShadowNinja Seems good now, although the -master removal seems like a hack.  Also, perhaps mod.conf?
04:19 kaeza the main idea behind naming it `.txt' is because Windows does not recognize the `.conf' suffix by default (I guess `depends.txt' is for the same reason)
04:19 ShadowNinja (Only reason I've heard of for .txt is Windows, but if you're editing .lua files you've figured out how to get around that)
04:20 ShadowNinja Well, there isn't really any suffix suitable for a depends file other than .txt that I can think of.
04:21 kaeza well, good point
04:21 kaeza depends isn't a `key=value' file (i.e. .conf)
04:22 kaeza but `mod.conf' looks like a configuration file for the mod, rather than mod information
04:22 kaeza maybe `mod_info.conf'
04:23 ShadowNinja What's the difference? <mod name>.conf implies that you placed your conf file in the wrong place. :-) You could even do info.conf.
04:24 kaeza alright
04:24 kaeza check again
04:25 ShadowNinja Seems good.
04:26 * kaeza also pokes ShadowNinja with #1060
04:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1060
04:30 ShadowNinja It breaks compat and isn't really necessary IMO.
04:32 kaeza oookay, then I guess I'll fix the docs instead
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05:26 kaeza ShadowNinja, sooo, what about that hacky "-master" removal? is it less hacky now? https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/​18438a076542b72c6bbd0a612c25f64e4d61542b
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08:27 thexyz ShadowNinja: it doesn't break compatibility because no one was using this field except this guy who reported an error
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10:16 VanessaE feature request:  add to the after_place_node() callback, a copy of pointed_thing.{} as it existed during the corresponding on_place() event.
10:16 VanessaE (if that makes any sense)
10:17 VanessaE or, I guess I can just cache it somewhere myself during on_place and reference it later during after_place_node?
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12:26 VanessaE well, it seems the buildcraft team decided to put up instead of shut up.
12:26 VanessaE [12-21 07:22] <raffahacks> Ok just received a mail
12:26 VanessaE [12-21 07:23] <raffahacks> This is the pasted mail
12:26 VanessaE [12-21 07:23] <raffahacks> Yes, we released the modified code under LGPL if you are looking.
12:26 VanessaE [12-21 07:23] <raffahacks> https://github.com/lukepeng/Buildcraft
12:28 VanessaE this is, however, not entirely compliant - there seem to be no links from the Google Play page to that repository, and the "Developer's website" links just go to a page that says "hello world"
12:29 VanessaE or is it merely sufficient if they just document it somewhere in their project eg. in the manual/readme
12:29 VanessaE ?
12:31 * VanessaE grabs a fork....just in case :)
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12:39 proller its month old
12:40 VanessaE allegedly it's 0.4.8-stable
12:45 proller but buildcraft was updated today
12:46 VanessaE hm
12:47 proller 933M   791M umtxn   0  20.4H 154.35% freeminerserver   -- 45 clients
12:47 VanessaE 933M virtual!?  eek
12:49 proller 1700 blocks in memory
12:50 VanessaE that seems like a hell of a lot of blocks, to me...
12:50 proller looot of bones
12:51 thexyz oh that's nice
12:51 thexyz hm.. somebody should diff it against some minetest source
12:52 proller and still no lag in inventory
12:53 proller with finite liquids!
12:54 VanessaE bbl
12:56 thexyz this doesn't look legit though
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13:28 thexyz and here's the output of `for x in *.cpp *.h; do echo $x; diff -w $x ~/minetest/minetest-temp/src/$x; done` run against Minetest afb27329fc05076876c19e90f8c4343efa540207
13:29 thexyz https://gist.github.com/xyzz/8ccdda9​be432849a64d9/raw/a6901aab6c3f336230​558b662113b4b5494871d6/gistfile1.txt
13:29 thexyz and a script https://gist.github.com/xyzz/4e25978​136229adf7a87/raw/c4f8bf41fe50a75c95​fda02202672d76a7382676/gistfile1.txt
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13:38 thexyz then it (probably) means this port is legit now so no need to be upset, VanessaE
13:38 thexyz and ban blockcraft users
13:38 thexyz err, buildcraft
13:39 thexyz oh and there's a new game from them, called Wasteland
13:39 thexyz that's just hilarious
13:39 specing what did they steal now?
13:41 nore I guess, BlockMen's wasteland game...
13:41 thexyz "steal"?
13:41 thexyz whoa that's some double thinking there
13:41 thexyz when others talk about piracy we usually correct them and say that "steal" is an invalid word
13:42 nore however, I don't agree with the word "steal"... they "used"
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14:27 harrison "repurposed"
14:31 kaeza ShadowNinja, thexyz, I can also add both "pos" and "position" as possible choices, with "pos" being deprecated and scheduled to be removed sometime in the near future
14:33 thexyz that's too much
14:33 thexyz maybe it'
14:33 thexyz maybe it's better to ask the one who wrote this code
14:38 kaeza well... I don't see that array in blue42u's branch, so I guess it was me 8)
14:39 kaeza ...or hmmmmmm
14:43 thexyz since api is inconsistent anyway either is fine
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15:23 sapier celeron55 if you did write the network code to learn you gave up quite some distance prior mastership ;-)
15:24 sapier e.g. on typical wan connection rtt isn't a usefull indicator for congestion
15:36 proller 64 players online on FM server
15:36 sapier 10000 in wow
15:37 proller 10 in mt
15:37 PilzAdam 1 on localhost
15:37 sapier proller yet this is minetest-dev not freeminer-dev ;-P
15:38 sapier and btw as you don't want to participate in minetest development comments like that one are better off in minetest
15:40 thexyz sapier: where are the modifications you're making for Minetest protocol code available?
15:41 proller but you can make minetest better!   git remote add fm https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer.git; git merge fm/master; git push
15:41 sapier it's early experimental state I found another major issue after testing on vanessae's server yesterday
15:41 PilzAdam proller, /nick troller
15:41 proller or remove json lib
15:42 sapier https://github.com/sapier/min​etest/tree/server_improvement
15:42 sapier this is yesterday version
15:42 thexyz interesting
15:43 sapier I'm about fixing two additional issues right now, congestion window modification based uppon rtt instead of packet loss
15:43 thexyz any time estimates on when it'll be testable?
15:43 sapier and second todo is about command -> packet conversion
15:43 sapier right now this is done at once resulting in huge packet queues where command queue would've been minor
15:44 sapier congestion window is fixed in about 1-2 hours, the split, maybe tonight, I'm gonna ask vanessae for testing once I manage to connect to a hdx256 server within reasonable time
15:45 sapier the version is testable yet there isn't much difference to current code
15:45 sapier at least on counting resulting performance only
15:47 thexyz yeah, I'm interested in comparing in to enet performance
15:48 thexyz not sure how exactly to test it; perhaps in transferring large media and ability to connect many clients at once
15:48 thexyz 100-500
15:48 sapier it's not comparable
15:48 sapier at least not with a single test
15:49 thexyz why?
15:49 thexyz I'm not saying about single test
15:49 thexyz I mean, we can do multiple different tests
15:49 thexyz I've only thought up those two
15:49 thexyz you can suggest yours
15:49 sapier I don't have an idea how to benchmark this correctly because of completely different network usage within minetest
15:50 sapier if you optimize for latency you break downloading and the other way round
15:50 thexyz in the end we compare the same stuff, don't we? ability to connect to a server with lots of media and ability for server to be able to handle lots of clients
15:50 sapier same for cpu usage
15:50 sapier less cpu usage -> higher latency
15:51 sapier with a whole different packet format
15:52 sapier I have to stick to some restrictions in order to keep compatibility ... but of course result is still interesting I guess enet wouldn't be an option if it's possible to get within a resonable distance without breaking compatibility
15:52 thexyz so do you have suggestions on how to determine what's better then?
15:53 sapier one thing is typical rtt for reliable non media packets
15:53 sapier second is packet loss for non reliable packets
15:53 thexyz anything which is easier to compare?
15:54 sapier third is typical/max jitter
15:54 sapier I don't see the one number telling better or worse
15:54 thexyz alright
15:55 sapier but I guess we need some instrumentalization to get those information
15:55 sapier and for my solution another interesting comparison is new core to old core for old clients
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15:59 sapier btw could someone please fix minetest logging? the chat crashes are due to non thread safe log code
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16:17 ShadowNinja I'm now downgrading my server to fix the serverlist announcing. Does someone know how to fix it? (It was after the fix that apparently fixed it for Vanessa) proller?
16:23 ShadowNinja And FWIW I like enet because it makes alternative clients or servers easier.  (But a well documented Minetest connection library would also work)
16:24 sapier right now my fixes are not targeted for merge, I just want to understand what's necessary to do
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16:33 thexyz what the fuck?
16:34 thexyz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/​blob/master/src/util/string.cpp#L113
16:34 thexyz why?
16:35 sapier lol str.c_str()
16:35 sapier but I assume result is same ... but that guess would need to be verified
16:36 sapier at least I hope std::string [] operator doesn't create a copy
16:36 thexyz meh
16:37 thexyz why is there a crazy random combination of C and C++
16:37 thexyz anyway, [0] is wrong because it doesn't work with empty string
16:37 thexyz and c_str() is wrong because it returns const char *
16:38 thexyz b-but no one is going to pass empty string here, r-right?
16:38 thexyz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/m​aster/src/script/common/c_content.cpp#L846
16:39 thexyz oh god those calls are everywhere
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16:40 thexyz for now I've just added `if (str.length() == 0) return 0;`
16:40 thexyz to readFlagString
16:41 thexyz (also, MSVC complained about this when building in Debug mode, lol)
16:41 thexyz when running the Debug build, to be correct
16:42 thexyz shall I submit an issue?
17:03 kahrl &str[0] on an empty string is perfectly fine
17:04 sapier great ... I was wondering why my data transfer seemed to get frozen after some time .... but it's not transfere, it's just the debug logging
17:05 thexyz kahrl: why?
17:05 kahrl thexyz: why not?
17:06 kahrl the C++11 draft I have here says the requirement for operator[] is pos <= size()
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17:09 thexyz http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp​/string/basic_string/operator_at
17:09 thexyz we no c++11
17:09 kahrl oh so it changed
17:09 kahrl well okay
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18:10 thexyz I'm not even sure if what the code is doing is valid
18:10 thexyz is that memory layout guaranteed?
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21:23 iqualfragile there was some discussion about enet recently and iirc thexyz has allredy implemented some functionality
21:23 iqualfragile problem is that this change would be backward-incompatible and its allways a smat idea to keep kompatible with the last debian stable if its not too much work
21:24 iqualfragile so i thought about that problem for a bit
21:24 sapier *smile* who is NOT thinking about it right now? ;-)
21:25 iqualfragile and i thought: why not both
21:25 iqualfragile keep the old protocol for legacy clients and add enet but listen on another port
21:26 sapier NO
21:26 sapier adds 100% maintenance does not provide any benefit
21:27 sapier keeping both means we need to fix old version ... if this is done there's no need for anything new
21:27 iqualfragile no, no need to fix the old version
21:27 iqualfragile just keep it as it is
21:27 sapier and of course we add additional 50% to synchronizing both
21:28 sapier keeping broken code is nonsense
21:28 iqualfragile its broken right now?
21:28 sapier yes
21:28 iqualfragile its just slow and stuff
21:28 iqualfragile but nor truely broken
21:28 sapier I consider sending 1 packet per second on high latency entwork > 100 ms  to be broken
21:29 sapier because 100ms isn't exactly what I call low latency
21:29 sapier -low + high
21:29 iqualfragile yes, indeed
21:29 iqualfragile but its not wont compile/wont run/cant connect broken
21:30 iqualfragile just keeping it the way it is and adding a new network-frontend is what i propose
21:30 sapier it is cant connect broken on any server using just a little bit of textures, it's even worse a client using old protocoll kills this server
21:31 sapier and how to synchronize?
21:31 sapier peer handling is integral part of network frontend in current version as well as in enet
21:33 sapier I guess everyone had same idea first but if we keep old we need to fix it ... resulting in no need for new one
21:38 sapier my opinion is fixing old one is best way to go ... but I assume that way wont be chosen
21:38 iqualfragile well… enet does not seem to support ipv6
21:39 sapier according to proller and thexyz this feature might be added soon
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21:41 thexyz well minetest didn't support ipv6 too
21:41 RealBadAngel hi
21:42 thexyz anyway, I think we should go with enet + messagepack
21:42 sapier as far as I know minetest DOES support ipv6
21:42 thexyz "didn't"
21:43 sapier minetest didn't support node digging too
21:43 sapier it's not relevant what was true some day in past relevant is current state
21:43 thexyz ah, you totally miss the point
21:44 sapier no but I don't want to discuss this again
21:44 RealBadAngel some1 broke minetest.get_all_craft_recipes
21:44 thexyz I'm not sure what you do not want to discuss
21:44 RealBadAngel can i push the bugfix to it directly?
21:44 thexyz anyway, how's that going with minetest protocol updates?
21:45 sapier you have your opinion I have mine, if enet was an "all in" option we didn't have to talk about it but it isn't so depends on weighting of arguments
21:45 sapier and weighting of arguments is the most subjective thing you can imagine
21:48 RealBadAngel this is how it looks like: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/​master/src/script/lua_api/l_craft.cpp#L413 and this is how it should look: http://pastebin.com/fZSewhfw
21:48 RealBadAngel any objections on above?
21:49 sapier why should it be 1?
21:49 RealBadAngel its lua table index
21:49 RealBadAngel it cannot be 0
21:50 sapier oh j is lua only I see
21:50 sapier agreed push it
21:50 RealBadAngel problem is some1 made this function skip indexes when slot is empty
21:50 RealBadAngel without incrementing index for empty space
21:51 RealBadAngel so craft recipes were broken
21:53 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=122316#p122316
21:54 RealBadAngel like on the screenshot above, group:stick shall be shown on slot to the right, without incrementing index its shifted
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22:15 RealBadAngel pushed the bugfix
22:16 kaeza okay, can somebody take a look (yet again) at 1060? sorry to be a bother, but it fixes bad API, and is completely trivial
22:16 RealBadAngel i do have to push also forgotten fix to minetest.conf example. it has not fixed names for parallax settings
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22:46 RealBadAngel kaeza, its ok for me
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23:55 proller http://paste.org.ru/?2s2lrn - freebsd support broken everywhere
23:58 iqualfragile would it be that the chinese ripoff minetest version does not support loading from remote_media?

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