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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-11-29

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Time Nick Message
00:12 john_minetest cya
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04:17 VanessaE ok, guys, we have a big problem.
04:18 VanessaE the transmission of media to other users, even with cURL enabled, consumes 100% CPU on the server side
04:18 VanessaE THIS is the source of the high lag my users keep seeing
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04:22 VanessaE guys, this shit's gotta stop.
04:38 RealBadAngel and propably all those timed out errors in windows
04:50 VanessaE one thing that is guaranteed to make the server eat CPU like crazy is fast move
04:50 VanessaE as soon as someone starts running, it spikes and stays there until the player stops running
04:53 VanessaE and as usual, I'm talking to air.
04:53 VanessaE no one gives a shit
04:53 VanessaE (except you, RBA, but this isn't your department)
04:53 VanessaE proller had a bunch of shit in his 'next' branch to address this stuff, yes?
06:01 RealBadAngel if he really does we should test if it fixes anythin for you
06:01 VanessaE I gave that branch a quick try earlier.  it needs a bit of work before I can deploy it to the servers for a wider test
06:04 RealBadAngel i suggest trying out individual patches
06:04 RealBadAngel not all of them at once
06:05 VanessaE I just cloned the whole 'freeminer' fork and played with that a bit.
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08:11 celeron55 06:56:17 < VanessaE> and as usual, I'm talking to air.
08:11 celeron55 *you're talking when all europeans are sleeping
08:12 celeron55 sounds like our bad collision code is a bit worse than people think
08:12 VanessaE yep I know.
08:12 VanessaE (air)
08:19 RealBadAngel celeron55, any comments on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1024 ?
08:21 celeron55 my happiness on that probably depends roughly on how little you messed up stuff for people who don't use shaders and people who don't want to use new shader features
08:21 RealBadAngel so just try it
08:21 RealBadAngel all is configurable in settings
08:22 RealBadAngel also i fixed messed up lighting code in shaders
08:22 RealBadAngel you, or whoever did that code, forgot to clamp the values
08:23 RealBadAngel i waited with it quite long and let folks out there to test it first
08:23 celeron55 looks like you managed to do that with relatively little changes in the common code
08:24 RealBadAngel so its in pretty good stable condition
08:24 RealBadAngel i got no more error reports
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08:25 VanessaE celeron55: I've been running this code all the way through and it works quite well now.  Maybe the exact parameters of the shaders need fine tuning (wave lengths, amplitudes, exact formulas, etc) but it works well
08:25 VanessaE (it's my fault that he fixed the lighting code ;) )
08:25 RealBadAngel such parameters are a subject to change
08:25 RealBadAngel maybe when enough folks will vote
08:26 RealBadAngel something faster, something slower, who knows
08:26 celeron55 i'll try it some day when i'm on my other computer
08:26 VanessaE celeron55: in order for this change to be of its greatest use, a few lines of code need to be added to minetest_game also e.g. to tell the engine that certain nodes will in fact wave.
08:28 RealBadAngel celeron55, one thing that troubles me. i would like to get this code merged soon
08:28 RealBadAngel due to amount of files ive changed
08:28 RealBadAngel its very hard to rebase it
08:28 RealBadAngel and i had to do that twice already for sake of one liners
08:29 celeron55 i'm sure some core dev other than me has better view on it than me and can agree on a merge
08:29 RealBadAngel honestly?
08:30 celeron55 it's impossible to know less about it than i do
08:30 RealBadAngel theres no one out there bout you and kahrl that know anything bout shaders
08:31 RealBadAngel others just can say i like it or not
08:31 celeron55 well i really don't care what you have put in the shader code, except for the parctical facts of whether it works on all GPUs, whether it's fast and whether it looks good or bad
08:32 RealBadAngel propably it works on most of them
08:32 RealBadAngel at least with opengl >= 1.2
08:33 RealBadAngel fast? it depends. with all the options enabled and high quality textures its.... just a monster that eats your GPU
08:34 RealBadAngel and how it looks? man its amazing to see world that actually lives
08:34 VanessaE actually I haven't seen an appreciable change in GPU performance or view range with the waving stuff turned on and 256px HDX
08:34 RealBadAngel well i did
08:34 VanessaE and it works well with things like pilzadam's VBO branch
08:34 RealBadAngel time for me to buy new gpu
08:35 RealBadAngel i coded all that stuff on 3yrs old, budget priced gpu
08:35 VanessaE yeah well, my motherboard has better onboard gfx than your anemic little GPU ;)
08:35 RealBadAngel xmas comes i will buy myself better one
08:36 VanessaE at any rate, celeron55, there seems to be no downside to the current copy of the shader code that I have (I need to pull RBA's latest changes though)
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08:37 RealBadAngel one last change to come is to disable shaders before creating inventory images
08:37 RealBadAngel im testing it atm
08:39 RealBadAngel btw i have an idea about wielded items
08:39 celeron55 i effectively agree on a merge, but maybe wait if someone notices something in it today
08:40 RealBadAngel celeron55, i will add that last change, make a windows build and ask a few folks to test it
08:40 RealBadAngel then i will ask for merging
08:40 VanessaE nope, wait
08:40 VanessaE it's not ready to merge
08:40 RealBadAngel ^^
08:40 VanessaE just pulled the changes.  inventory images are still messed up
08:40 RealBadAngel ^^
08:40 VanessaE oh
08:40 VanessaE duh :)
08:41 RealBadAngel read the lines VanessaE
08:41 * VanessaE <-- blind
08:41 RealBadAngel hehe
08:41 RealBadAngel back to the idea i started to talk about
08:41 VanessaE which is?
08:42 RealBadAngel i noticed that shaders do affect wielded item
08:42 VanessaE yes and I love it
08:42 VanessaE seeing a blob of water waving around in hand is neat
08:42 RealBadAngel so leaves are waving in hand for example
08:42 RealBadAngel yeah
08:42 RealBadAngel we can introduce wielded_item_shader
08:43 RealBadAngel and make extrusion looki real good
08:43 RealBadAngel *looking
08:43 RealBadAngel thx to bumpmapping and occlussion
08:43 VanessaE riiight
08:43 VanessaE I hadn't thought about it from that angle
08:44 VanessaE and you'd use a fixed bumpmap
08:44 VanessaE just some measure of flat height
08:44 VanessaE (if one isn't provided for the texture)
08:44 RealBadAngel doesnt have to be provided
08:44 RealBadAngel i can easily make heightmap on the fly
08:46 VanessaE right, exactly
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08:55 VanessaE [11-29 03:54] <rubenwardy> Can some one post the following on #minetest-dev? Updated: http://minetest.net/screenshots
08:57 RealBadAngel why one of them is different sized?
08:58 RealBadAngel feel free to post response back ;)
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09:32 celeron55 i wonder if it would be useful if we had an official forum thread or something where people could request testing of commits or branches and anyone could report there if it works or what problems there are
09:32 celeron55 this for the purposes of making zero testing work go to waste and the results being easily accessible to anyone (eg. those considering merging it9
09:33 celeron55 )*
09:33 VanessaE some kind of official discussion forum would be a good idea, but I have to wonder if people here would use it in lieu of github issues
09:33 VanessaE issues/pulls
09:33 celeron55 that's an another question: are github issues and pulls enough for that
09:33 VanessaE honestly?  no.
09:34 VanessaE they lack two things - one is you have to sign up for yet-another-account (not a problem for most of us, granted), and two, they lack any sense of realtime discussion
09:34 celeron55 it might be good to go ask around if people think they would've found such useful recently
09:35 VanessaE I think somewhere half-way between this and the regular logs is what is needed
09:35 VanessaE (if that makes any sense)
09:35 VanessaE yes
09:37 RealBadAngel i have used forums post way
09:37 RealBadAngel plus the irc
09:37 RealBadAngel and it worked quite good
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09:38 RealBadAngel i were able to ger error logs and fix the issues almost on the fly
09:38 RealBadAngel *get
09:39 RealBadAngel and i must say OpenGL is a bitch to debug
09:40 RealBadAngel way harder than c++
09:41 RealBadAngel without folks testing it i couldnt be able to make it work
09:53 VanessaE bb, bed.
09:53 VanessaE bbl*
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11:35 BlockMen RealBadAngel, #1024 looks fine for me
11:35 BlockMen but one question: is it possible to prevent this? http://i.imgur.com/PFfwlIC.png
12:03 celeron55 BlockMen: oh about your newest website screenshots: are they from a real dokuwiki template?
12:04 celeron55 if so, i could test them on the site itself so that it's easier to get feedback and get the "feel" of it
12:08 BlockMen celeron55, no, like last time it based on a screenshot of current.
12:08 BlockMen but i can make if you want me to do
12:09 BlockMen or you do yourself because of my coding style :P
12:14 celeron55 i'm too lazy (which is kind of obvious from the layout i made...)
12:15 celeron55 or, not really lazy but i want to use my time for something else
12:15 celeron55 (which is usually the case)
12:16 celeron55 i don't want to say i want you to make it, because i also want to preserve the right to not use it if i end up deciding so
12:17 celeron55 i'm kind of scared trying to judge these layouts though, because nobody really said the previous one was bad, but still they're now saying it was bad and even what i made is better
12:17 celeron55 people should tell it and keep telling it if something sucks, otherwise it's impossible to improve efficiently
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13:02 BlockMen celeron55, hmm ic. i think i gonna make the template for the subpage then since its easier to do (i hope).
13:03 BlockMen and to the old page: i wanted polish it a few times but you said you want keep the amateurish style
13:07 celeron55 well i guess i didn't really know what you meant or something
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13:11 celeron55 if you promise to try to take every lesson from the previous layout and also what you're seen being said about my new one, i promise to use your new layout on minetest.net until i happen to come up with something that many people say is at least equally good (tl;dr: let's use common sense)
13:12 celeron55 i'll not even judge it myself; think of me being a slow upload program
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13:16 BlockMen well, thx. but my point is not that it has to be "my" layout that is used. my point is to say my opinion about things i notice and show my ideas how it could be improved (IMO). and why shouldnt you judge it?
13:17 celeron55 because i tend to make not-so-good judgements when i'd rather focus on something else
13:17 BlockMen at least its still your project so its fine when you still control a few things
13:21 celeron55 could core developers have a vote about how to deal with freeminer(.org)?
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13:25 celeron55 my view is that i'm relieved that people finally try making a serious fork (it's about fucking time), but it's still probably a surprise to many
13:26 celeron55 i mean, it might or might not make sense to go on like nothing was happening; i'm not sure
13:38 Exio4 ~ https://github.com/freeminer?tab=members
13:38 pitriss celeron55: I'm not core dev and I will never be.. But I see that fork positive.. I like mt as is.. On the way how it is going.. (Not mergining every pullrequest just because someone is trolling with it 3 months here). Time will show if freeminer is as lagfree as it trying to look like..
13:43 BlockMen i think goin on like nothing was happening is not the way. for me i can say that i was kinda surprised but i dont really know atm what i think of it. on the one hand im absolutely fine with it, on the other hand it seems to be somewhat of an emotional (over?)reaction. I think the future will show if it finds its own direction or its just a "now we decide"-Minetest.
13:46 celeron55 i actually too think that's the important question
13:46 celeron55 they say "It aims to make the game fun while trading off some bits of perfectionism."
13:47 celeron55 if they do it right, the future will be pretty good
13:47 celeron55 as nobody is stepping too much on other's toes
13:49 celeron55 (to me that seems like they're going to focus on a single subgame and optimize their fork of the engine for it, which makes minetest free to pursue the more wide approach)
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15:38 PilzAdam I agree to what BlockMen said about "freeminer"
15:39 john_minetest Is freeminer still there? And what did BlockMen say?
15:44 john_minetest PilzAdam ^
15:44 PilzAdam http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2013-11-29#i_3461225
15:46 john_minetest ok
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15:47 john_minetest Hey Zeg9
15:47 Zeg9 Hi
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15:52 RealBadAngel hi PilzAdam
15:52 RealBadAngel have you tried latest changes in shaders?
15:52 PilzAdam not yet
15:52 RealBadAngel so please do, i believe all the problems you were reporting are gone
15:54 john_minetest RealBadAngel: Awesome, gonna test it.
15:54 RealBadAngel i have just to push disable shaders when generating inventory images and rebase main_menu.lua (thx, sapier :P )
15:54 john_minetest RealBadAngel: Which shaders are there yet? Water and wind moving; something else?
15:55 RealBadAngel improved bumpmapping, parallax occlusion, and geometry shaders: water, leaves and plants waving
15:57 john_minetest awesome.
15:57 john_minetest Looking forwards for more epic stuff like that :)
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15:58 john_minetest Soon it will look better than SEUS :)
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16:01 john_minetest RealBadAngel: Where has the branch gone?
16:02 john_minetest Or is it in GLSL_shaders now?
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16:03 RealBadAngel a second
16:04 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest
16:05 RealBadAngel i will push last changes to it in a few minutes, but those are rather cosmetic ones
16:05 john_minetest Oh, the rebase is in the master.
16:06 john_minetest I thought it was in the shader_rebase branch which I didn't find anymore
16:06 RealBadAngel i had problems with rebasing branches, so decided to reclone sources and stay with one tree
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16:06 john_minetest okay
16:10 john_minetest PilzAdam: Where is the minetest_game that is needed for playing with RBA's shaders enabled?
16:10 PilzAdam tmp branch in my repo
16:10 john_minetest thx
16:16 john_minetest plants not waving O_o
16:27 RealBadAngel add waving = 1 to node def
16:28 RealBadAngel i have already switched from paramtype2 to nodedef property
16:30 RealBadAngel moretrees do support that already
16:30 RealBadAngel https://github.com/Vanessa​E/moretrees/commits/master
16:33 john_minetest so PilzAdam's one won't work?
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16:34 RealBadAngel if it was using paramtype2 it wont
16:34 RealBadAngel open farming mod in your minetest game
16:35 RealBadAngel and add:
16:35 RealBadAngel waving = 1,
16:35 RealBadAngel to all the grasses
16:36 RealBadAngel jungle grass and dryshrub defs are in default
16:37 RealBadAngel btw, PilzAdam, when farming redefines the grasses, maybe let it handle them at all?
16:37 RealBadAngel and remove them from default
16:37 john_minetest farming should handle everything that grows. except trees.
16:37 RealBadAngel no need for multiple defs imho
16:38 john_minetest RealBadAngel: Wasn't that tree def thing with all that ABAABCC by you?
16:38 RealBadAngel yes, l-systems tree are made by me
16:40 john_minetest Those are so awesome.
16:40 john_minetest Lol, you are making all that awesome stuff that makes the game look better :)
16:44 RealBadAngel ty
16:57 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, have you tested it?
16:57 PilzAdam not yet
16:57 RealBadAngel i have pushed already inventory fix
16:57 RealBadAngel and will have to rebase it all once again
16:58 RealBadAngel thx to sapier's changes to mainmenu.lua :(
16:59 john_minetest Is sapiers mod menu fix merged yet?
16:59 john_minetest into minetest/minetest
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17:22 sapier john_minetest did you manage to get latest version from github?
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17:37 john_minetest sapier: retrying in a few minutes
17:43 john_minetest sapier: IMO it should be like: click button -> INSTANT: overlay saying "Downloading..." -> okay message
17:44 john_minetest With that overlay it would be impossible to click buttons randomly and it won't feel so "hung up" anymore.
17:46 sapier adding an additional screen might even result in more errors ... atm right after you click the download is started and gui should hang until finished
17:46 john_minetest that is ugly
17:46 sapier I don't understand (yet) why it's possible to issue any futher downloads while original one isn't completed
17:46 john_minetest why not just blocking users from downloading all that stuff at the same time?
17:46 john_minetest Nobody would want to do that.
17:47 sapier actually they shouldn't be able to do so
17:47 sapier the gui is locked while downloading
17:47 sapier for some reason irrlicht seems to queue the events
17:47 john_minetest It should be look locked when downloading, too.
17:48 sapier I totally agree with you but this isn't a bug caused by this commit and imho should be fixed in another one
17:48 john_minetest Just make a "Downloading..." screen.
17:49 sapier that won't help at all
17:49 sapier it will make things worse
17:49 john_minetest 1.: It would stop users from quequing events
17:49 john_minetest 2.: It would be much nicer than just displaying a static screen that looks as if you could do something
17:50 sapier it's not a bug in this commit it's a feature request
17:50 sapier I don't want to add even more complexity to this commit if not absolutely required
17:51 sapier and no it won't stop users from queuing events  the opposit is right
17:51 john_minetest how that?
17:51 sapier the only way to show something is continue mainmenu loop thus having to handle all events issued by player while download is in progress
17:52 RealBadAngel ok, ive rebased shaders_rework
17:52 sapier so to show this screen we actively need to refuse user actions
17:52 john_minetest If the screen is locked and shows "Downloading ...", how could a user call up any other event?
17:52 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/com​mit/12c4fd9d6ae8ababb7decdf34d2969ca7e02cb53
17:52 sapier key events for example
17:53 john_minetest sapier: Those won't start any new thread.
17:53 RealBadAngel if there wont be any unexpected errors, that will be final
17:53 sapier worse escape will exit
17:53 john_minetest sapier: The problem is, that the user can interact with the buttons while the download is ongoing.
17:54 john_minetest I suggested that we just block the users from doing this by providing a visually nice screen that tells the user to stand by while downloading.
17:54 sapier john I completely agree a download screen should be added yet it's not as simple as I'd like it to be
17:56 john_minetest There is that popup screen after the download has finished. Can't something similar be made?
17:56 sapier there will always be a (small) gap between handling of key event and display of lock screen ... maybe user can't hit it but I wont rely on this guess
17:57 john_minetest When there are two threads running it won't be a big proplem.
17:57 john_minetest Bug only appears after massive clicking
17:57 sapier I'd prefere adding this a separate commit as it's not related to the fix we're trying to merge
17:57 sapier there aren't two but multiple threads running
17:58 john_minetest testing yours now
17:58 sapier and john_minetest there's always something that can be done better .. if this was reason for merge or not we never could merge anything
17:59 john_minetest When I click Download buttons everywhere, it practically hangs up.
17:59 john_minetest After some time it might work again
17:59 john_minetest But still having that hangup every time is annoying and might confuse users.
18:00 john_minetest It might crash on windows due to not responding.
18:00 john_minetest That happens often.
18:00 john_minetest It is hanging for over one minute now
18:01 sapier what internetconnection do you have?
18:01 john_minetest 1.5 MB/s download.
18:01 sapier strange
18:01 john_minetest error
18:01 sapier what error?
18:02 john_minetest "ERROR: Internal modstore error please leave modstore and reopen! (Sorry)"
18:02 sapier that's good
18:02 sapier means fix for crash is working
18:03 john_minetest finished clicking
18:03 john_minetest now waiting yet another time for it to unhang
18:03 sapier It will hang anyway we're only talking about a screen telling you it's downloading ... there's no way to show a progress
18:04 john_minetest Not only that:
18:04 john_minetest It will also prevent random clicking
18:04 john_minetest You should lock all buttons after one has been clicked
18:04 sapier I just want to make sure you don't expect a progress bar to appear ;-P
18:04 john_minetest :D
18:05 sapier I can't lock any buttons I only can hide everything
18:05 john_minetest Yeah, with windows-like time estimation: "1 hour left... 1 second left... 10000 days left... finished in a few seconds..."
18:05 sapier and I can't stop user from clicking a second button prior I can hide it
18:05 john_minetest sapier: clicking two buttons might be not that big problem
18:05 john_minetest btw, still hanging
18:06 sapier you may have to wayt for curl timeout for some things
18:06 john_minetest hah now
18:07 john_minetest "Mod(s): Bridges & Handrails, Bridges & Handrails, Bridges & Handrails, Bridges & Handrails, Bridges & Handrails, Bridges & Handrails, [...]"
18:07 sapier lol you multiclicked same button :-)
18:07 john_minetest yep. for about 50 times and then some other buttons
18:07 sapier guess that one can happen even if I show the lock screen
18:08 john_minetest I just tried clicking 2 buttons. No problem. Two things are installed with nearly no dela
18:08 john_minetest +y
18:08 john_minetest just block user input asap to prevent click flooding
18:09 john_minetest Just display "downloading", we can add fancy stuff when it works
18:09 sapier atm download is done synchronously the only way to show the lock screen is make it asynchronously ... expect bugs when I add it ;-)
18:09 john_minetest try it :)
18:09 sapier give me half an hour ... hope there isn't more than I already know
18:33 Exio4 [05:32:59] <+RealBadAngel> at least with opengl >= 1.2
18:33 Exio4 there aren't shaders for opengl 1.2, as far as i know
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18:45 sapier john_minetest try again
18:57 john_minetest niiiice
18:57 john_minetest Btw, what does that one mean: 19:57:37: ERROR[AsyncWorkerThread_1]: readModStoreModDetails: not a single version specified!
18:57 john_minetest It seems to be non-critical.
18:59 john_minetest It is ... O_O *perfect*
18:59 john_minetest I'd say it is ready to merge.
19:00 john_minetest When  readModStoreModDetails is not critical.
19:00 sapier that's a mmdb error
19:01 sapier having mods without downloadable file in there is quite useless
19:01 john_minetest okay. Then: go for merge.
19:01 sapier nope need someone else to test first too many changes since PilzAdam tried last time
19:02 sapier especialy as there are feature enhancements since pa tested
19:07 ShadowNinja sapier: "We can’t automatically merge this pull request."
19:07 sapier guess I need to rebase too
19:07 john_minetest <john_minetest> I'd say it is ready to merge.
19:07 john_minetest Of course it is only my opinion
19:08 john_minetest Derived from what I have tested
19:08 RealBadAngel anybody has something against on shaders rework?
19:09 john_minetest ?
19:09 john_minetest what against what?
19:09 Exio4 did you 'fix' the game_time issue?
19:09 sapier if you fixed the inventory lighting I'm for merging (but I don't understand shaders)
19:09 RealBadAngel Exio4, ofc i did
19:09 RealBadAngel sapier, also done
19:10 RealBadAngel shaders are now disabled when creating inventory images
19:10 Exio4 does that mean a speed-up when creating inventory images? :P
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19:11 RealBadAngel when shaders are not used at all, than propably yes
19:12 hasufell why do we link to OPENGLES2? I don't think it's used anywhere and "-Wl,--as-needed" will remove it
19:13 sapier any comments on removing whitespaces at end of line good idea or not?
19:15 RealBadAngel when doing something around, why not
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19:16 sapier current eclipse does this automaticaly :-/ but there's one situation I'm not sure about ... empty lines do contain only whitespace ... thus removing trailing whitespaces results in those lines now beeing really empty
19:17 thexyz and what's the problem?
19:17 thexyz isn't it how it should be?
19:17 thexyz empty lines should be empty
19:17 ShadowNinja sapier: Remove trailing whitespace if you are modifying the nearby code.
19:17 sapier it shoult but typicaly they aren't atm thus each of my current commit contains lots of whitespace changes
19:18 sapier I'm not gonna look for trailing whitspaces manually
19:19 ShadowNinja In vim: %s/[\t ]+$//
19:20 sapier ok eclipse does this near edited lines only yet on rebase there are a lot of lines that are touched
19:21 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/977 see yourself
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19:40 john_minetest RealBadAngel: Will a new minetest_game be provided at the same time?
19:40 john_minetest Having new shaders but no items using those would be annoying
19:41 RealBadAngel to push changes to minetest_game first the engine changes should be merged
19:41 RealBadAngel on the other hand its pretty easy to edit farming mod
19:42 RealBadAngel or default
19:42 RealBadAngel also, moretrees already supports the changes
19:43 john_minetest yep
19:44 john_minetest RealBadAngel: I think, when shaders are added, it should be possible to enable shaders and have moving grass and stuff - without having to get a custom game
19:44 RealBadAngel ofc it will be possible
19:44 RealBadAngel minetest_game will support it
19:45 RealBadAngel meanwhile you can use minetest_game modified by me
19:45 john_minetest That is what I meant.
19:46 john_minetest Also all plants, except flowers and trees, should be in farming.
19:46 sapier will shaders apply to entities too?
19:51 ShadowNinja sapier: Are multiple images downloaded at a time?
19:51 sapier yes atm it's limited to 4
19:52 sapier I assumed more than 4 cores aren't available for most ppl and there are other things running too
19:53 ShadowNinja sapier: Mods without a archive show up with a -1 rating.
19:53 sapier yes ... penalty for not beeing downloadable ;-P
19:53 ShadowNinja sapier: You won't(or at least shouldn't) be using up the entire core, so you can spawn as many threads as you want.
19:54 sapier no
19:54 sapier threads aren't spawned on demand this would be crazy as creating a thread is a really heavy operation
19:55 ShadowNinja sapier: My Bedrock mod shows up as not having a screenshot. It does have one.
19:55 sapier and async isn't for download only so it IS possible to consume a full core
19:55 john_minetest is bedrock in default?
19:56 ShadowNinja john_minetest: No.
19:56 ShadowNinja sapier: Perhaps you should add a back button, ESC isn't obvious.
19:57 sapier I will NOT fix any single issue with this single commit Shadow ;-p
19:57 john_minetest Who decides what comes into minetest_game?
19:57 sapier ONE commit ONE fix
19:57 ShadowNinja Mods take a awfully long time to load. But that's because of a bad server-side API I heard.
19:58 sapier it's a three way handshake
19:58 ShadowNinja sapier: The mmdb URL is configurable?
19:58 sapier yes
19:59 sapier shadow did you specify a titlepic in mmdb?
19:59 ShadowNinja sapier: I think that the no version error should be sent to infostream.  And there should be "No download" text.
20:00 sapier you don't have a download button isn't that self explaining? :-)
20:00 ShadowNinja sapier: https://forum.minetest.net/mmdb/mod/bedrock/ It has a image(which mmdb has trouble displaying properly) I didn't see a "titlepic" setting.
20:01 ShadowNinja sapier: Yes, but it looks empty, there should be something there.
20:01 ShadowNinja sapier: And the contrast is bad, white on white.
20:02 sapier can someone plz write something positive sometime ;-P
20:03 sapier I agree with most of your suggestions but I wont add it in this pull request
20:03 sapier if you edit your mod in mmdb there's a dropdown "titlepic"
20:04 ShadowNinja sapier: Ah, yes, it's set properly.
20:04 sapier great fundamentalists won and mmdb is now glp crusader area
20:05 sapier I think about stopping development for mmdb
20:06 sapier Any comments on what sort of freedom minetest stands for ... REAL freedom or pseudo GPL freedom?
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20:11 sapier where is mmdb source code?
20:11 ShadowNinja sapier: https://bitbucket.org/iqualfragile/mmdb/
20:13 sapier what license is mmdb?
20:14 ShadowNinja Hmmm, all-rights-reserved I guess.
20:16 sapier LOL if this was true this forced freedom in mmdb is even more ironic ... forcing everyone else to be free but requireing special rights for himself ... yet I don't think iqualfragile is doing this way
20:17 sapier but if this was true I don't have to think about stopping development any longer
20:17 ShadowNinja He probably forgot to add a license, or added it in a place that isn't very visible.
20:17 sapier I guess you're right, still this needs to be clarified
20:18 sapier I am not willing to support forcing ppl use some license if the person forcing others doesn't stick to his own rules
20:20 troller joined #minetest-dev
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20:20 sapier Shadow did you test the async branch?
20:21 ShadowNinja sapier: Yes, it seems to work well.
20:21 sapier well enough for merge?
20:22 ShadowNinja sapier: Yes.
20:22 sapier ok as pa did agree to it too and john_minetest did test it I'm gonna merge
20:23 ShadowNinja Um, wait.
20:23 ShadowNinja sapier: ^
20:23 sapier yes?
20:24 ShadowNinja sapier: ACTION[(unknown thread)]: <-- This used to be ServerThread.
20:24 sapier I didn't change anything there
20:24 sapier guess that one was added with mainmenu?
20:24 ShadowNinja sapier: Didn't you add jsepaphore or something like that in this patch?
20:25 sapier I did and the worker threads get their own names
20:26 sapier what error is shown by unknown thread?
20:28 ShadowNinja sapier: No errors outside of the regular, but messages that used to be from ServerThread(Like the Minetest ASCII art) Are now from "(unknown thread)".
20:28 iqualfragile joined #minetest-dev
20:28 sapier strange
20:29 ShadowNinja Ah, iqualfragile: What is the license for MMDB?
20:30 sapier but you're right shadow somehow the main thread information is lost
20:30 ShadowNinja sapier: Er, no. They came from the "main" thread before.
20:31 sapier yes but that's just a detail it'S wrong atm but I don't know why
20:33 sapier ok I know
20:34 sapier destructor is called in main thread not within child thread
20:37 sapier Shadow should be fixed now
20:42 john_minetest Btw shadow: Are there shadows (shaded) planned for ingame?
20:43 john_minetest (or maybe also unshaded, idk)
20:44 sapier ok I'm gonna merge the async branch in half an hour so last chance to check
20:44 ShadowNinja Alright, all looks good now.
20:50 iqualfragile joined #minetest-dev
20:52 VanessaE bah, why is he always gone when I show up.
20:52 sapier who are you talking about vanessae?
20:54 VanessaE RBA's shaders are FAIL.
20:54 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2011292013%20-%2003%3a52%3a38%20PM.png
20:55 celeron55 the apple boxes on trees look funny
20:56 VanessaE it looks like he broke everything that has alpha
20:56 celeron55 quite obviously yes
20:56 VanessaE (the trees' leaves too, though not quite visible in that shot)
20:57 VanessaE it's weird seeing these big X-shaped ...things... waving around in the breeze :)
20:59 kahrl huh, there's still the typo in modmgr.lua:57
21:00 kahrl I thought it was fixed
21:00 kahrl I'm actually not sure I ever mentioned it ;)
21:01 sapier ok I fix it as I'm merging right now
21:02 sapier1 joined #minetest-dev
21:02 sapier1 kahrl what's wrong at 57? (guess my line numbers changed)
21:03 celeron55 tempfodler
21:03 sapier1 lol
21:04 celeron55 oh fodler actually is a word 8)
21:05 ShadowNinja remote_port doesn't have a default value, therefore: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6496086/
21:06 sapier1 what is a fodlerß
21:07 sapier1 I'm fixing it next ... I'm merging async NOW
21:11 sapier1 Shadow remote_port does have a default value
21:16 kahrl joined #minetest-dev
21:24 ShadowNinja sapier: Well setting it in minetest.conf fixed that crash.
21:27 VanessaE damn it sapier, you just broke RBA's shaders branch (rebase needed AGAIN)
21:27 sapier sorry ... guess rbas branch would've broken mine too
21:28 john_minetest Fix that one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/802
21:29 VanessaE (I decided to back everything out and restart from a clean clone just in case *I* broke something, regarding the aforementioned alpha failure)
21:29 john_minetest There is even a patch by PilzAdam.
21:30 sapier ShadowNinja can you reproduce that crash?
21:30 kahrl joined #minetest-dev
21:31 john_minetest It is just HILARIOUS which bugs are not fixed yet...
21:32 john_minetest There is one of mine that is about one year old...
21:32 sapier number?
21:32 * john_minetest just realized that he has been in this project for such a long time...
21:32 john_minetest #329
21:33 john_minetest And idk if that one if fixed yet: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/802
21:33 sapier 329? guess noone looks that far back ;-)
21:33 john_minetest It is not closed yet.
21:33 john_minetest And it is a visible bug
21:33 john_minetest It was so long ago that i nearly FORGOT about that!
21:34 sapier guess noone did care enough about this one
21:36 john_minetest Well, normally bugs get fixed by and by
21:36 john_minetest The whole organisation is suboptimal.
21:36 ShadowNinja sapier: No, I can't reproduce it on master, only on RBA's shaders fork.
21:37 sapier seems to be a merge error
21:37 emptty joined #minetest-dev
21:38 sapier john true but noone is paid for it so we have to live with some suboptimal things ;-)
21:38 hasufell left #minetest-dev
21:38 john_minetest Nobody pays the linux devs but they are still doing great stuff.
21:39 emptty john_minetest: nobody, beside about 100 companies
21:39 john_minetest Nobody pays the pioneer space sim devs but they are also doing great stuff.
21:39 VanessaE actually some 60-70% of them are paid, professionally, to develop the linux kernel
21:39 sapier VanessaE can we close this one? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/128
21:39 emptty including IBM, motorola, and all the others
21:39 john_minetest emptty: In the beginning nobody paid them.
21:39 john_minetest They became great and then they were paid
21:39 VanessaE sapier: I guess so
21:40 sapier once some company starts to pay minetest developers our organization will improove too
21:40 sapier I close 128
21:40 emptty for the time being, they still do great stuff
21:40 emptty for the time being, *the minetest dudes still do great stuff
21:41 john_minetest https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues?d​irection=asc&amp;labels=bug&amp;milestone=non​e&amp;page=1&amp;sort=created&amp;state=open
21:41 john_minetest Look at that list. 2 years old bugs.
21:42 sapier yes but none of them are critical
21:42 emptty there is many 15 years old bugs in debian, overall :)
21:42 VanessaE I wonder if #218 is still valid in light of #1000
21:43 john_minetest sapier: Are there really critical bugs atm?
21:43 john_minetest sapier: What is "critical"? As long as it doesn't delete my HDD and crashes all the time it is fine?
21:43 sapier maybe that one causing long timeouts
21:44 sapier critical are only crashes especialy reproducable ones
21:44 sapier or bugs that destroy data
21:44 john_minetest Still: There are trivial bugs that could be fixed within a day.
21:44 john_minetest Or within an hour
21:45 sapier if you think they can be fixed that fast fix it ... usually fixing a simple bug in code you don't know takes much more time you expect
21:45 john_minetest And that one has a bugfix included: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/802
21:45 sapier that's less then half a year that doesn't count
21:48 john_minetest Ouch, RBAs shader branch is terribly broken
21:48 VanessaE john_minetest: like so?  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2011292013%20-%2003%3a52%3a38%20PM.png
21:50 john_minetest That one can be closed: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/508
21:52 celeron55 #802 could be fixed anytime
21:53 celeron55 maybe PilzAdam can push his fix
21:53 john_minetest VanessaE: Exactly like that. Those things are not even waving.
21:53 VanessaE john_minetest:  they wave for me, but that's because I have a mod in place to enable them to do so.
21:53 sapier I'm gonna push 802 fix
21:54 VanessaE "but then the dropped item collides with the player, so it requires #773."
21:54 VanessaE is that already dealt with?
21:54 VanessaE it has.
21:55 john_minetest yeah.
21:55 VanessaE put the Y offset at 1.0, that should put the thrown object at just below shoulder height
21:55 celeron55 i'd say a bit over 1.0
21:56 celeron55 because then it's easier to throw them over 1 node high walls
21:56 john_minetest VanessaE: Also the game crashes when switching to multiplayer tab
21:56 celeron55 that actually needs to be tested
21:56 VanessaE well okay, I could agree with that
21:56 VanessaE john_minetest: I didn't try that - that's probably sapier's fault ;)
21:57 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
21:57 john_minetest VanessaE: Before I pulled last time, everything worked properly
21:58 Exio4 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1003 this can be closed, no?
21:58 john_minetest I guess a bad merge has broken a lot of stuff
22:01 john_minetest Can anybody please close that one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/508 ?
22:01 john_minetest It is a feature request of somebody with no geological knowledge.
22:02 sapier 1.2?
22:06 john_minetest AND: Close that one. It is fixed since 20000 years:   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/297
22:06 troller sapier, http://paste.org.ru/?zg0ghe
22:07 troller did you try compile before pushing?
22:07 sapier yes and it does compile fine for me
22:07 sapier what os and compiler do you use?
22:09 troller gcc version 4.2.1 20070831 patched [FreeBSD]
22:09 troller FreeBSD/amd64
22:09 sapier can you add a "class" between "friend" and "AsyncWorkerThread" and try again?
22:11 sapier guess this is that old gcc bug again
22:12 troller to what line ?
22:13 troller 135
22:13 sapier l_async_events.h L135 yes
22:13 troller http://paste.org.ru/?8o29sq
22:15 sapier grrr but it does name a class
22:15 sapier ok lets find out how to persuade old gcc
22:18 sapier you have >friend class AsyncWorkerThread;< in line 135 now?
22:18 troller yes
22:18 troller -       friend AsyncWorkerThread;
22:18 troller +       friend class AsyncWorkerThread;
22:18 sapier and exactly same error??
22:18 john_minetest foe AsyncWorkerThread
22:19 emptty john_minetest: I changed my mind. You are right. The bug triaging that you are now doing is very valuable
22:19 emptty john_minetest: maybe you should comment the bugs that are ready to be closed
22:20 john_minetest Is there a site where one can make notes in real time while others can read them?
22:20 Exio4 this exact channel
22:20 john_minetest sfan5: You used that site for 0hgame iirc.
22:20 john_minetest I think it is better to have a list than posting it here, interrupted by somebody saying something in the middle of the list
22:20 john_minetest But ok:
22:21 sapier troller?
22:21 troller exactly
22:21 john_minetest #508 -> No geological knowledge, that bug is completely needless
22:21 troller second paste
22:22 john_minetest #297 -> obsolete, that one is fixed
22:23 sapier that doesn't make any sense troller
22:23 sapier can you write #error there?
22:24 ShadowNinja john_minetest: Closed.
22:24 sapier is white menu on white background intended on minetest.net?
22:25 sfan5 john_minetest: http://etherpad.org/ ?
22:25 ShadowNinja john_minetest: Well, the second one. I haven't seen the first in a while.
22:26 john_minetest ShadowNinja: Even if that lava thing happens, it is no bug. It is geological correct that lava can be found in the water.
22:26 troller but cavegen incorrect and make caves in water
22:26 djdduty joined #minetest-dev
22:26 john_minetest There are subduction zones and hot springs
22:27 Exio4 that bug was related to the lack of 'obsidian' at that time
22:27 sapier troller? I need your help it compiles for me
22:27 sapier and everyone else who tried it too ;-)
22:27 john_minetest Brb, washing my bloody hands. Those fruit flies are hell.
22:28 Exio4 is that master?
22:29 troller sapier, do not use private? ;)
22:29 sapier no that's wrong
22:30 sapier the error is because your gcc doesn't understand friend the way standard defines we need to find out how to tell him
22:30 john_minetest okay, got another one that can be closed:
22:30 john_minetest https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/76 -> Fixed by minetest-classic ;)
22:30 troller sapier, hmm. now looks works
22:31 sapier with class added only?
22:31 troller yes, strange with compile
22:32 sapier ok then I'm gonna push that fix
22:32 troller okay
22:32 ShadowNinja john_minetest: I can't read that.
22:33 VanessaE I think what he's saying is he wants to be able to tune 0.4.x down as low as possible, to the point that he essentially has 0.3.x, but without actually running the 0.3.x engine
22:34 sapier that'd require lua engine to be disableable by setting
22:35 Exio4 there should be a "zero" game where it only has stuff that was in 0.3
22:36 john_minetest ShadowNinja: Yeah, me neither. Seems to say: "Uhhrg, minetest is slower now and DMs destroyed everything."
22:36 ShadowNinja Exio4: It's called Nostalgia. :-)
22:37 john_minetest ShadowNinja: Is that one closed yet? I think there are mods but not sure: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/75
22:37 sapier troller fine now?
22:38 Exio4 i said zero just for saying something, but yeah, a nostalgia game with a reduced code that is 'only useful' for having the content that was in 0.3
22:39 Exio4 and tried to be the fast possible :P
22:39 ShadowNinja Exio4: I mean there is already a game called nostalgia, which has 0.3 things.
22:39 ShadowNinja john_minetest: Chat can be done, but I don't thing the nametabs are doable.
22:39 ShadowNinja tags*
22:40 VanessaE idk if this is up-to-date, as the original source is now dead, but https://github.com/VanessaE/mt_nostalgia
22:40 troller sapier, yes, thank you
22:40 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net​/viewtopic.php?pid=106504
22:40 VanessaE there it is.
22:40 Exio4 did anyone went around for "making it even faster"?
22:40 sapier no problem I broke it I fix it ;-)
22:40 john_minetest ShadowNinja: I thought I have seen it somewhere.
22:41 VanessaE (and now my git is up-to-date.  just needed to push)
22:41 john_minetest Especially nametags
22:42 john_minetest ShadowNinja: Part 1: Chat distance -> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6273
22:42 ShadowNinja john_minetest: Nope, there isn't any API for nametags, and although you can make nametags they would cover the current ones and would only work in the active range.
22:45 john_minetest ShadowNinja: Well, than we have to leave that one open
22:45 john_minetest I will post a comment on partly fix.
22:48 john_minetest ShadowNinja: That one is done by mods now and fixed in protector mods: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/78
22:48 john_minetest close
22:49 harrison joined #minetest-dev
22:49 john_minetest ShadowNinja: This one also seems obsolete, it is fixed by using protector mod or worldedit:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/82
22:52 john_minetest VanessaE: Has this been fixed yet? -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/99
22:52 VanessaE no, it has not been
22:52 VanessaE well, let me double-check that
22:52 ShadowNinja john_minetest: If you want a notepad: http://notas.dados.gov.br/p/Minetest
22:53 harrison joined #minetest-dev
22:53 VanessaE john_minetest: no, that has not been fixed.
22:54 harrison joined #minetest-dev
23:09 john_minetest Posting all stuff there: http://notas.dados.gov.br/p/Minetest
23:16 john_minetest ShadowNinja: Did you look at it?
23:32 john_minetest Woah, tons of stuff and nice features and bug reports...
23:35 john_minetest COMMENT NEEDED: Is this legit? -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/634
23:35 troller sapier, http://paste.org.ru/?r4b940
23:36 john_minetest troller: Is the freeminer site down?
23:36 troller no
23:36 ShadowNinja Does this look OK? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/489
23:36 VanessaE works for me, john
23:37 sapier troller where's the error?
23:38 troller dont know
23:38 VanessaE ShadowNinja: use my better font instead.
23:38 VanessaE and if there are kerning issues in the client...er...they need fixed?
23:38 troller Bus error: 10 (core dumped)
23:39 sapier I'd like to say "update to a new version of gcc" but I guess there ain't anything like that in openbsd
23:40 VanessaE wouldn't a bus error be due to byte/word alignment issues?
23:40 troller its not a compiler or os error
23:41 sapier maybe but I don't do things affected by alignment
23:44 troller http://paste.org.ru/?1i3tca
23:44 ShadowNinja How's this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/608 Should it adapt to the size of the chat?
23:45 sapier I git errors at that location when locking didn't work ... but that bug is fixed
23:46 ShadowNinja http://strawpoll.me/791065
23:46 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, kahrl has that branch somwhere that includes nick hightlighting in addition to the size fix
23:47 sapier lol
23:47 VanessaE ShadowNinja: I like that feature, and I had originally suggested one other thing:  Each time a message comes in, the darkened area should briefly get even darker than is shown there, stay that way for a second, then fade back to what is shown (or make it even lighter/more faded)
23:47 sapier troller can you post bt from all current threads
23:48 VanessaE s/fade back/slowly fade back/
23:48 VanessaE like what some websites do when a new message or alert arrives
23:50 troller sapier, http://paste.org.ru/?cxvk0r
23:51 sapier t0?
23:52 sapier PilzAdam do you remember the dump all gdb cmd?
23:52 sapier thats way to less threads troller there should be 4 worker threads and minetests original threads
23:53 ShadowNinja kahrl: Is your filteredchat branch mergable? Can you add the features of #608 and the length adapting to it?
23:53 troller http://paste.org.ru/?ubx2vo
23:54 sapier thread apply all bt
23:54 sapier this command in gdb please
23:56 troller http://paste.org.ru/?axxxp0
23:57 sapier what the ... seems like most of minetest is already gone?
23:58 sapier that doesn't help at all ... can you compile -O0 and try again?
23:59 john_minetest troller: Where can I find the website of that minetest fork?
23:59 troller http://freeminer.org

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