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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-11-18

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Time Nick Message
00:00 VanessaE joined #minetest-dev
00:44 BlockMen is it intended that seed is not reset in mainmenu after creating world?
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01:05 OWNSyouAll joined #minetest-dev
01:16 iqualfragile joined #minetest-dev
01:16 VanessaE regarding the weird brightness of lava:
01:16 VanessaE git bisect reports:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6435258/
01:17 VanessaE I confirmed this with a manual rollback from HEAD.
01:17 VanessaE before that commit, shaders brightness on lava was fine. at or after, lava flowing is way brighter than the source.
01:22 hmmmm there's literally nothing there that could possibly have that effect
01:22 VanessaE I know.
01:22 VanessaE but I checked it twice.
01:22 hmmmm is it possible that you had shaders disabled for the longest time and you didn't notice it?
01:22 VanessaE I'm not even sure anymore
01:22 VanessaE did you see the screenshots I posted?
01:22 VanessaE wait, you couldn't have
01:23 VanessaE with shaders:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2011172013%20-%2007%3a12%3a51%20PM.png
01:23 VanessaE without:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2011172013%20-%2007%3a14%3a29%20PM.png
01:24 VanessaE well I can see where he changed it from requiring a number to 'true' in the config.
01:25 VanessaE so maybe they were just turned off in the prior commit
01:25 * VanessaE grumbles.  LOUDLY.
01:25 VanessaE all I wanna do is help fix this shit
01:26 * VanessaE signs, grumbles, and tries again
01:26 VanessaE sighs*
01:27 iqualfragile so git bisect is just like some kind of binary search?
01:27 VanessaE sorta yeah
01:27 RealBadAngel funny, for me without shaders there are differences between flowing and source
01:27 VanessaE RealBadAngel: same for me.
01:27 RealBadAngel and source is brighter
01:27 VanessaE ditto
01:27 RealBadAngel not the flowing one
01:27 hmmmm hmm
01:27 RealBadAngel a sec
01:27 VanessaE but with shaders, the screenshots clearly show the opposite, and starkly so.
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01:28 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/fQljGJs.png
01:28 hmmmm now, vanessae, you said you bisected it twice
01:28 RealBadAngel this is without shaders and default textures
01:28 hmmmm but did you check the immediately surrounding commits?
01:28 VanessaE hmmmm: once.  Then rolled back manually.
01:28 hmmmm you should try that
01:28 VanessaE I'm about to re-check it from further back, and do that ^^^ too
01:28 hmmmm yeah
01:30 VanessaE ok, enable_shaders = 2 in the prior commit still shows the broken lighting.
01:30 * VanessaE goes back.
01:30 RealBadAngel VanessaE, theres a difference in brightness even without shaders
01:30 VanessaE I know.
01:30 iqualfragile RealBadAngel: i think that one is intentional
01:31 iqualfragile wasnt the brightness of the sourceblocks higher?
01:31 RealBadAngel what i have noticed that the lava flowing surface is closer to horizontal as source, it gets brighter
01:31 RealBadAngel it depends on angle
01:32 RealBadAngel same applies to water, but its harder to notice
01:32 VanessaE ok, let's take this all the way back to 0.4.6. :P
01:35 VanessaE jesus, how far back does this go??
01:35 VanessaE why have I not seen this until now?
01:35 iqualfragile VanessaE: the binary search is faster if you just start with the commit introducing shaders
01:36 iqualfragile as oposed to extending the range every few tries
01:37 RealBadAngel iqualfragile, the difference is noticeable WITHOUT shaders at all
01:37 iqualfragile RealBadAngel: i do not think that this is the same problem
01:41 RealBadAngel actually for me with shaders colors look quite the same
01:42 VanessaE does ANYONE here have a moderl opengl implementation?
01:42 VanessaE modern*
01:42 RealBadAngel with shaders: http://i.imgur.com/VapGrej.png and without: http://i.imgur.com/MXbKFkO.png
01:45 ShadowNinja Why doesn't this work anymore? It worked when I made it but it hasn't worked since: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/3d4d0cb5749a68436cccd08b7a135f9bb7527038
01:46 ShadowNinja I don't see any changes around there...
01:46 hmmmm is that mapgen v7 in that screenshot?
01:46 hmmmm why anybody would use that pile of crap is beyond me :D
01:47 VanessaE could it be because I build against irrlicht 1.8
01:47 VanessaE ?
01:57 RealBadAngel im using 1.7
01:58 VanessaE ok, it ain't 1.8, I'm working backwards and found at least one commit where shaders work properly (and I made damned sure shaders are actually enabled)
01:58 * VanessaE continues to test.
02:00 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/Bk41FWLZ
02:01 VanessaE now THAT looks like it might be related :)
02:02 VanessaE jesus that goes back a while
02:03 RealBadAngel i start to have a feeling that color channels are somehow swapped
02:04 VanessaE I'm double-checking now.
02:14 VanessaE ok that confirms it
02:14 VanessaE cd1f604ffe6130fd7d3a8358a8cebd7f821f9a11 really does break the shaders.
02:15 VanessaE I confirmed by re-cloning, git reset --hard to one commit before, build and check the result, the reset --hard to that ^^^^ one and check again
02:15 VanessaE and I made 100% sure my shaders are turned on via the conf and comparing to what the .example says
02:15 VanessaE now what do I do?
02:15 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Does "git revert <SHA>" on master HEAD work?
02:16 ShadowNinja s/work/fix it/
02:16 VanessaE I could try but I somehow doubt it.
02:16 VanessaE sec.
02:17 VanessaE no good.
02:17 VanessaE that causes a conflict, and I suck at resolving git conflicts.
02:19 us`0gb ShadowNinja: I just tested /msg with the latest dev version, and it seems to still be working (not displaying "-!-") for me.
02:20 ShadowNinja us`0gb: Hmmm... Lemme re-check this.
02:21 ShadowNinja us`0gb: "Server -!- PM from singleplayer: test\nServer -!- Message sent!"
02:22 us`0gb That's odd ...
02:22 us`0gb The lower message has it for me, but not the upper.
02:25 hmmmm alright let's see this
02:26 hmmmm well yeah I think that could do the trick vanessa
02:26 hmmmm but that's over a year ago
02:26 VanessaE yes I know
02:26 hmmmm if it was really bothersome why haven't you done this until now
02:26 VanessaE shows how rarely I use lava
02:26 VanessaE plus perhaps at the time, I had an older opengl than I have now?
02:27 hmmmm hmmm
02:27 hmmmm nope, that has nothing to do with this
02:27 VanessaE actually that wouldn't matter
02:27 hmmmm remember, you went to the one before this commit and it worked perfectly for you
02:27 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Can you reproduce that "Server -!- " bug?
02:27 VanessaE yes
02:27 VanessaE exactly
02:27 VanessaE ShadowNinja: how?
02:27 ShadowNinja VanessaE: /msg singleplayer test
02:28 VanessaE in current HEAD?
02:28 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Check if the "PM from..." line starts with "Server -!- ". Yes.
02:28 VanessaE sure.  sec
02:29 VanessaE hmmmm: I seem to remember talking to c55 about brightening the lights, and I think that commit was the result, but I guess no one thought to see how it affected lava
02:29 VanessaE and I so infrequently run into lava that I just hadn't noticed until recently.
02:29 hmmmm vanessae, try adding: if(gl_Normal.y <= 0.5) color *= 0.7; to line 47 in client/shaders/test_shader_2/opengl_vertex.glsl and see if that makes a difference
02:30 hmmmm well it's probably not line 47 anymore... I mean put it in between where you set the color components and the alpha component at the end of the shader
02:30 VanessaE hmmmm: sure, gimme a sec.
02:31 hmmmm there's also another minor difference but I'd like to see if this fixes it first
02:31 VanessaE hm.  135kB/sec to fetch media from the server.  [notbad.png]
02:35 VanessaE ShadowNinja: indeed I see the Server -!- bit.
02:36 ShadowNinja Ok, but why?  The code seems correct.
02:36 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Can you check it?
02:36 VanessaE hmmmm: like so?  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6435493/
02:36 us`0gb SO why do you two see it and I don't?
02:37 us`0gb *So
02:37 VanessaE wait, above that.
02:37 ShadowNinja us`0gb: What version do you have? 0.4.7-stable?
02:37 VanessaE hmmmm: like this, rather?  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6435497/
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02:37 us`0gb No, a dev version I updated to yesterday.
02:37 hmmmm vanesyes, like that
02:38 hmmmm vanessa yes*
02:39 VanessaE hmmmm: as a matter of fact, that did improve it.
02:39 VanessaE let me re-check with HDX.
02:40 us`0gb ShadowNinja: http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=9bdecd2
02:41 ShadowNinja us`0gb: Yay for impossible bugs that only show up most of the time!
02:41 VanessaE hmmmm: yep, that's got it
02:41 hmmmm great
02:41 hmmmm i have no idea why that was left out anyway in the first place
02:41 hmmmm soo commit that?
02:41 us`0gb Yeah, impossible bugs are great ....
02:41 VanessaE hmmmm: I'd say so....but what did I just do?
02:41 VanessaE :)
02:42 hmmmm you basically reduced the alpha transparency of the lava by 30% if the y normal was past a certain point
02:42 hmmmm so basically erm
02:42 VanessaE that's what I thought....but the alpha channel???
02:42 hmmmm faces that are pointing at least 0.5 of a unit high
02:43 hmmmm yes, notice how you already assigned the color components before that statement
02:43 VanessaE yes
02:43 hmmmm the only other thing set using 'color' is the alpha channel
02:44 VanessaE lemme check this in a "wider" example.
02:45 VanessaE I think the flowing could stand to be a tad darker
02:45 VanessaE maybe *0.6 ish
02:46 VanessaE (or the source should be brightened to match)
02:47 VanessaE wait
02:47 VanessaE new problem...
02:48 VanessaE the flow direction looks....strange.
02:48 VanessaE screenshot in a sec
02:49 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2011172013%20-%2009%3a48%3a58%20PM.png
02:49 VanessaE um...why is the texture being turned to an angle on flowing?
02:49 VanessaE that looks horrible
02:51 VanessaE (I hadn't noticed before because I was only doing simple straight lines)
02:53 hmmmm that's odd
02:53 VanessaE I did not, btw, put the suggested 0.6 in.
02:53 hmmmm and definitely not related
02:53 hmmmm does that not happen anymore if you take what I said out?
02:53 VanessaE I'll check
02:54 hmmmm I agree it does look pretty bad though
02:54 hmmmm (did we just never notice it?)
02:54 VanessaE I think s
02:54 VanessaE so*
02:54 VanessaE two or so days' worth of commits ago, it seemed fine, but don't quote me on that.
02:55 VanessaE hm, no.  as expected, your change was not the cause of the diagonal textures.
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03:05 RealBadAngel youre changing colors depending on surface normal?
03:06 RealBadAngel thats why i was getting similar colors when surfaces were closing the same angle
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03:12 RealBadAngel surface normal .y doesnt mean coordinates of node
03:16 hmmmm no it means the angle
03:16 RealBadAngel of the whole surface
03:17 hmmmm .y <= 0.5 I assume means that the face is at most 30 degrees from surface level in either direction
03:17 hmmmm from flat i mean
03:17 RealBadAngel somethin like that
03:18 hmmmm right
03:18 RealBadAngel and that was exactly the reason the colors were different on whole surface
03:18 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/iGRemHY.png
03:18 hmmmm and the steepest face possible is 45 degrees
03:18 hmmmm so that code in theory should always trigger for *any* visible face of a flowing liquid
03:19 hmmmm to see if I'm right, just change that code to color *= 0.7 and see if it stays the same as it is before the normal.y check
03:20 RealBadAngel notice it can have negative values
03:20 hmmmm that's true
03:20 hmmmm I'm not really sure what that changes though
03:21 RealBadAngel simply, starting from some angle colors were multiplied by a factor
03:21 RealBadAngel and were different from unmodified ones
03:22 RealBadAngel somebody wanted to darken lower part of node with it
03:22 RealBadAngel but ended with changing colors for whole tiles
03:23 RealBadAngel simply assuming tile (flat one) can have different normals is wrong
03:24 RealBadAngel flat surface will always have just one (or the very same for each point) normal vector
03:24 hmmmm right
03:25 hmmmm so in other words the original cause of this bug was a massive mixup
03:25 RealBadAngel to darken only bottom tile one should check for exact value of normal.y
03:25 RealBadAngel not just < than something
03:25 hmmmm whoever did the shaders probably intended to have that darken code only for the flowing liquid, not solid nodes
03:25 hmmmm they mixed up the first and second shader file (maybe?)
03:26 RealBadAngel i think it was supposed for solids
03:26 RealBadAngel and just bottom tile
03:26 hmmmm I guess...
03:27 RealBadAngel i will fix the issue in liquids
03:27 hmmmm but that doesn't explain why there was that glaring bug there for a year
03:27 RealBadAngel i fought with that when creating textures for water and lava
03:28 RealBadAngel but that was at the very start
03:28 hmmmm yea
03:29 VanessaE hmmmm: simple:  the variance in color between the lightest and darkest points of the lava texture is so wide that you can't really see it
03:29 VanessaE until you put in a texture that doesn't vary so sildly
03:29 RealBadAngel well, every bug sooner or later will be killed ;)
03:29 hmmmm haha
03:29 VanessaE otherwise it just got lost in "noise" I think
03:29 hmmmm nope
03:29 hmmmm not *the* screwed-up-shadows bug
03:30 RealBadAngel what shadows?
03:30 hmmmm there's no way that's ever going to be fixed unless we generate all possible blocks in that sector first
03:30 hmmmm this is why minecraft has such a low height limit but it works for them at least
03:31 RealBadAngel ah that
03:31 VanessaE hmmmm: so anyway, I guess go ahead and commit the *0.6 change
03:31 hmmmm 0.6?
03:31 VanessaE er 0.7
03:31 hmmmm yeah, good
03:31 VanessaE typo
03:31 hmmmm we don't want that to be inconsistent from the results without shaders
03:32 hmmmm (although I bet it's still different to some degree)
03:32 RealBadAngel that code shall be completely removed
03:32 RealBadAngel it doesnt belong here
03:32 hmmmm yeah I saw your shader cleanup
03:32 hmmmm crazy @_@
03:32 hmmmm looks very good, but it's totally 0.4.9 material
03:33 RealBadAngel have you seen Bumped texture pack that uses it?
03:33 hmmmm I've seen some of your screenshots
03:33 RealBadAngel try it live
03:34 RealBadAngel shaders are doing self shadowing
03:34 RealBadAngel pictures are not enough
03:35 RealBadAngel effect is like VanessaE said, game looks like those prerendered animations
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03:43 hmmmm well
03:44 hmmmm i play F.E.A.R. a lot
03:44 hmmmm that uses an insane amount of normal bumpmapping
03:44 hmmmm I do know what I'd be looking at yeah
03:45 VanessaE hmmmm: actually I was referring to the style and lighting quality
03:45 VanessaE not so much what the normals actually *look like*
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03:45 VanessaE some of those MC "cartoons" have the same look as those screenshots
03:47 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/YpBuL1V.png
03:47 RealBadAngel fixed water at least :)
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03:50 VanessaE RealBadAngel: but its...angled.
03:50 VanessaE like the lava.
03:50 VanessaE ick.
03:50 VanessaE for water it *might* work okay
03:50 VanessaE but for lava, fuck no
03:50 VanessaE at least not with the default texture thereof.
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03:51 RealBadAngel thats not mine invention, i have no idea who did that
03:51 RealBadAngel that have to be done somwhere in mapblock_mesh.cpp
03:52 RealBadAngel and rotatin textures by angles <90deg
03:52 VanessaE yeah I know.
03:53 RealBadAngel i havent touched that piece of code
03:53 VanessaE I know I know :)
03:53 VanessaE can you fix it though?
03:54 VanessaE of course you can, what am I saying :P
03:55 hmmmm vanessae, by the way did you roll back minetest by like a week and see if the ugly diagonal flowing lava is still there
03:56 VanessaE not yet.  I will check that now.
03:57 VanessaE (got sidetracked :P )
03:58 VanessaE goes back into september.
04:00 hmmmm so wtf?  because I never noticed that until now either
04:01 VanessaE idk
04:01 VanessaE I'm attempting to find out.
04:01 VanessaE I guess we just don't play in lava enough? ;)
04:02 VanessaE (or water)
04:02 hmmmm no idea
04:02 hmmmm i don't play enough period
04:06 RealBadAngel i have fixed and cleaned liquids shaders
04:11 RealBadAngel goin to sleep now, its past 5am already
04:14 VanessaE [3ee80987086a99803f5a812089ae253ab509cb68] Diagonal liquid animation
04:14 VanessaE still bisecting, but I bet this is related.
04:14 VanessaE yep
04:14 VanessaE that's where bisect lands.
04:15 VanessaE how come we never noticed the diagonally-rotated  textures?
04:15 RealBadAngel link to commit?
04:16 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/3ee80987086a99803f5a812089ae253ab509cb68
04:18 RealBadAngel yeah thats it
05:05 hmmmm do you guys not like it?
05:05 hmmmm it's growing on me honestly
05:06 VanessaE with water, it's fine I guesa
05:06 VanessaE guess*
05:06 VanessaE but with the default lava texture, G*d no
05:06 VanessaE it forms "stripes"
05:06 hmmmm you can make it optional i guess
05:06 VanessaE which looks horrible with that default texture
05:12 VanessaE hmmmm: your 0.7 tweak breaks water :(
05:12 hmmmm how so?
05:12 VanessaE it makes it turn kind of a dark, translucent reddish
05:12 hmmmm oh that's fantastic...
05:14 hmmmm could it be that the water's transparency level was changed later to compensate for the bug?
05:14 VanessaE possible.
05:15 VanessaE lemme see how it looks with defaults.
05:16 VanessaE oh you'll like this :)\
05:16 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2011182013%20-%2012%3a16%3a25%20AM.png
05:16 VanessaE that dark red stuff is default water :
05:16 hmmmm alright now that is crazy
05:16 VanessaE :D
05:17 hmmmm water looks nothing like that for me
05:17 hmmmm it's true that it's a shade too dark and too transparent so it looks reddish up against dirt
05:17 hmmmm but it's not like that at ALL
05:17 VanessaE has Moses come by to smite the water or something?
05:17 hmmmm that has got to be an ati bug or something
05:18 VanessaE now I'm not sure I put that tweak in the right place.
05:19 VanessaE client/shaders/test_shader_2/opengl_vertex.glsl line 45 or so?
05:19 hmmmm yeah
05:19 VanessaE right after color.r/color.g/color.b
05:19 hmmmm yes, you did it right
05:19 VanessaE lemme go back to mainline, see if maybe one of my few patches did it
05:23 VanessaE hm, seems okay there.
05:28 VanessaE I may know why.
05:29 VanessaE RBA's reworked shaders branch somehow got into my local_patches (thought I backed everything out?)
05:29 VanessaE so it's okay.
05:29 VanessaE his branch is busted.
05:30 VanessaE funny screenshot though :)
05:30 VanessaE so yeah/
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05:32 VanessaE push your tweak, but make it *0.65
05:32 VanessaE that seems to be just the right balance between defaults and HDX
05:37 hmmmm no it's not good
05:37 hmmmm like I was saying, the flowing water is a fair bit darker now, probably because the flowing water transparency was modified
05:38 VanessaE oh I misread that
05:39 VanessaE I thought that was a reference to that false-red-water thing.
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11:42 iqualfragile params.AntiAlias for createDeviceEx is an u8, not an u16
11:43 iqualfragile http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/str​uctirr_1_1_s_irrlicht_creation_parameter​s.html#a50602e6ae0cc3d79ca7df0aa8114e75a
11:57 iqualfragile RealBadAngel: i think the problem about bumpmaps is that there are no "real" light sources
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12:30 RealBadAngel yes, we dont have any lights
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13:37 EvergreenTree I have noticed a problem with the inventory image for the jungle sapling:   http://i.imgur.com/MhJjAI1.png
13:38 EvergreenTree Since it is pretty much the same code as the regular one, it shouldn't be any different
13:38 EvergreenTree I think VanessaE had a problem with this, I think it has something to do with the plantlike drawtype
13:39 EvergreenTree It is especially strange, as the regular sapling looks normal, but the jungle one doesn't.    They are practically the same code, so I have no idea
13:41 EvergreenTree Is anyone here?
13:53 RealBadAngel yes
13:54 RealBadAngel btw, bug: default_book.png texture is 16x17px
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15:37 OldCoder I am napping but on way out: Latest git no longer cross-compiles for Windows. Error is gettext.cpp 'stderr' was not declared in this scope
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16:15 OldCoder Follow-up: Commenting out the line in gettext.cpp which uses stderr allows MT to be built again for Windows
16:16 OldCoder Jordach, PM sometime if you saved your Blender Cat Model
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17:29 sapier proller do you need help splitting your big aio patch to usefull smaller parts?
17:30 proller for waiting years for merge?
17:36 Exio4 the only big patches that got merged are so far big patches for a single feature
17:39 iqualfragile sapier: he closed all his pullrequests and put them into a single one
17:39 iqualfragile proller: please: reopen your pullrequests
17:39 Exio4 he fuck.
17:39 iqualfragile some will get merged
17:39 Exio4 the*
17:40 iqualfragile it took so long because minetest development slowed down a bit in the last 3 months
17:42 celeron55 it's due to a sum of many things, including that they are objectively quite controversial and eg. some of them break things that people like
17:44 celeron55 and have already broken things
17:51 Exio4 and stuff like weather is ugly in core
17:53 pitriss Hi, I got maybe useful idea: How about some halfmod privs in builtin? I mean privs which allows ppl to temporarily grant/revoke interact and shout? possible interval 10 minutes min, one day max?
17:55 pitriss This can help keep servers clean when moderators are not nearby... I think it would be cool to have some "sheriffs" which can temporarily solve some minor rule violations?
17:57 Exio4 you could write a script for that
17:57 pitriss *who can
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17:58 pitriss Exio4: yes of course.. But I thought that can be useful for many servers.. ..and builtin is better place for such thing..
18:04 kahrl OldCoder: see #1007
18:05 kahrl I guess there's no reason against merging that
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18:10 sapier ShadowNinja do you have fixed your error handler now? imho it's anoying to replace a missing backtrace by a application crash ;-)
18:11 kahrl sapier: I don't remember, what was there to fix still?
18:13 sapier c_internal.cpp L60 makes std::string from lua_tostring which can be 0 ... shouldn't be of course but there seem to be situations where this happens
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19:17 iqualfragile the anti alais setting uses a wrong type
19:17 iqualfragile it should be u8
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19:49 OldCoder sapier, PM
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21:34 ShadowNinja sapier: No. And gettext.cppis broken, it uses stderr which isn't defined there. Did you do that?
21:34 ShadowNinja +' '
21:39 sapier I guess you're talking about non gettext build shadow?
21:40 ShadowNinja sapier: IDK, OC mentioned it, see logs.
21:42 sapier there's a fix for gettext.h I can't find stderr in cpp file
21:43 sapier Shadow no offence I wonder why this luaerror bug happens, according to sokomine serialization errors are involved
21:49 ShadowNinja sapier: How did she reproduce it?
21:49 ShadowNinja (I forgot)
21:50 sapier he did create a entity without collisionbox
21:50 sapier hmm without might be collisionbox accidently set to nil
21:51 sapier don't know if this does anything different
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