Time Nick Message 00:19 iqualfragile ah, k 00:19 iqualfragile in that case there is some android application violating at least that license 03:30 Sokomine problem: repeatedly "minetest/src/emerge.cpp:570: virtual void* EmergeThread::Thread(): Assertion '0' failed." with pretty recent git + a new world (no guarantee that the mods fit and work together as intended) 03:31 Sokomine will try with current git 03:34 Sokomine same happens with latest git. that the mods do have some problem is likely. the world i try to generate is completely new 06:21 hmmmm man, proller's weather crap is horrendous from an organizational standpoint 06:23 hmmmm anyway my guess is that the weather bug is due to activateBlock not being called on time before it gets sent out to the client 06:24 VanessaE um...wut? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6430401/ 06:24 VanessaE didn't someone else just report this earlier today? 06:25 VanessaE hm, maybe not the same error. anyway, that ^^^ just happened out of nowhere 06:28 hmmmm I want to get rid of the weather crap 06:28 hmmmm it simply does not fit 06:29 hmmmm it uses too many high-level constructs and uses them in with low-level block initialization without regard to any program structure 06:30 hmmmm basically when he first wrote it he just did whatever mangling with pointers and references he needed to in order to get the objects necessary to carry out the weather calls 06:39 nore https://gist.github.com/Novatux/7510145 <-- what do you think of that? 06:39 nore I'm probably going to rewrite the while force loading code 06:40 nore and it is a draft of the new API 06:40 nore far less hacky 06:42 hmmmm there's nothing that can go wrong with reference counting 06:42 nore what do you mean? 06:44 nore hmmmm, perhaps that then: https://gist.github.com/Novatux/7510145/revisions 06:46 hmmmm that's probably better 06:46 hmmmm you really cannot trust mods 06:47 hmmmm they can and will do everything in their power to act stupid with minetest and cause problems 06:47 nore (ah, and I forgot: the loaded blocks are saved on map shutdown) 06:47 nore hmmmm: that's the objective of the handler 06:48 nore you can limit any mod to a maximum number of force loadings, and the mod cannot force load more than that number of blocks 06:48 hmmmm oh guys, do you know what the 'p' key does in minetest by default? 06:49 VanessaE no idea 06:49 hmmmm that's the 'throw exception' button 06:49 nore what? 06:49 VanessaE that does nothing here. 06:50 nore nor for me 06:50 VanessaE wait 06:50 hmmmm ahh nevermind 06:50 hmmmm that's not an exception, it looked like a backtrace to me 06:50 VanessaE http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6430462/ 06:50 hmmmm I thought it was like something that had a problem nobody noticed 06:50 VanessaE it does that for me 06:50 hmmmm yeah that's normal 06:51 hmmmm doesn't it look like something being a bug and trying to crash at first? 06:51 VanessaE yes in fat 06:51 VanessaE fact* 06:52 VanessaE fat lotta good a debug stack is if it isn't attached to some sort of actual crash, no? 06:52 nore the traceback always stops at (Leftover data: #5 void MeshUpdateQueue::addBlock(v3s16, MeshMakeData*, bool, bool)) 06:52 VanessaE noreqditto 06:52 hmmmm well I think the intention was to figure out where some thread is stuck in if it's taking too long to do something, or caught in an infinite loop 06:52 VanessaE nore, ditto* 06:56 nore hmmmm, are you ok for an API like that? should I code it? 06:56 hmmmm i'm pretty indifferent toward it 06:56 hmmmm why don't you ask people who would actually be using this 06:56 VanessaE I assume he has things like technic, mesecons, and pipeworks in mind. 06:57 nore yep... 06:58 nore or a more general force load mod, that could allow you to place force loaders 10:25 PilzAdam nore, I guess this should be done in minetest_game too: https://github.com/PilzAdam/pilztest/commit/a6a23b4f0ded32fa1708e88ea9007df9a025a701 10:26 nore indeed... (do I make it, or do you want to do it yourself?) 10:27 nore no, it is already done... 10:27 nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L160 10:29 PilzAdam oh, good 10:30 PilzAdam then another thing I noticed: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/9fdbc1f4072dcf2296af9bcce6ec92bfa75972ca this adds some print() calls; print() is an alias for minetest.debug(); I think it should be changed to minetest.log("action", ...) 10:31 nore didn't know that... but yeah, it should probably be changed (was tree growing action?) 10:31 PilzAdam yea, I checked that 10:31 nore oh, and I wrote a draft for the force loading API too: https://gist.github.com/Novatux/7510145 10:32 PilzAdam woah, these abms use spaces as indentation 10:33 nore what? when I coded them, I wrote tabs... (and I'm sure they were tabs) 10:33 PilzAdam well, BlockMen changed that I guess 10:33 nore ah, yes, I had forgotten that 10:34 PilzAdam also, we should use mintest.get_item_group() 10:34 PilzAdam (for is_soil) 10:34 nore what does it use now? 10:35 PilzAdam it checks it in minetest.registered_nodes[] 10:35 nore and what is the problem with that? 10:35 PilzAdam we have to check for nil and 0 10:36 nore ah, didn't know that 10:36 nore minetest.get_item_groupd returns 0 if not in group, is that right? 10:36 PilzAdam yep 10:40 nore should we add a minetest.swap_node function too? because now, it is very annoying that the formspec freezes when a furnace turns on/off, etc 10:43 Sokomine any ideas what may cause that "minetest/src/emerge.cpp:570: virtual void* EmergeThread::Thread(): Assertion '0' failed." i'm experiencing? i havn't been able to nail it down to one particular mod yet 10:44 PilzAdam nore, also the trunk should be able to replace leaves of other trees 10:44 VanessaE Sokomine: related? [11-17 01:24] um...wut? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6430401/ 10:44 VanessaE PilzAdam: the same should be true of the L-systems generator, btw/. 10:45 VanessaE I griped about that months ago 10:45 nore PilzAdam, perhaps even a grown_trough group or something like that 10:46 nore nodes that can be replaced by growing trees... 10:48 PilzAdam Im searching for other print()s in minetest_game currently; should it be logged when a player takes an item from the creative inventory? 10:48 Sokomine vanessae: might be related. except that in my case the block was placed by a mod at mapgen time (new world, first visit to it) and not by a player 10:49 nore PilzAdam, I think it is currently... 10:49 VanessaE bbl 10:49 PilzAdam nore, but with a print(), so I change that to actionstream 10:49 nore yes, should be better 10:51 Sokomine pilzadam: with creative inventory, it's probably less important. taking something out of/placing into formspecs of mapnodes that have an inventory ought to get logged. might avoid problems like with technic where thieves can't be identified 10:53 nore Sokomine, that's a problem with technic... ;) 10:54 nore a question about a possible minetest.swap_node: should it update light? should it be reported for rollback? 10:57 PilzAdam nore, https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest_game/commits/master 10:57 PilzAdam are these 2 commits ok? 10:57 Sokomine nore: it's not only technic. all these mods that support nodes with an inventory + formspec have to log what's taken and placed manually right now. logging that in general might be a good idea 10:59 nore PilzAdam, yes 11:01 PilzAdam whenever we create Lua code styleguidelines it should state that print() calls should be removed in a release 11:01 PilzAdam now lets check builtin 11:06 PilzAdam hmm... is modmgr.lua:935 "important" enough to be logged to errorstream? 11:08 nore what is it? 11:09 PilzAdam oh, right, its just mods being set in world.mt but not found in the modlist 11:09 PilzAdam I log it to infostream then 11:09 pitriss Important message should be warning if it's not fatal IMO 11:12 PilzAdam nore, https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/367b5382a394e853128092afd23fc7e360d369d1 11:12 nore ok 11:19 Sokomine regarding the crash i had: seems that's a more general message. the problem appears to lie in the way glooptest places treasure chests. the more exact error message is "ERROR[EmergeThread0]: ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: basic_string::_S_construct null not valid" 11:22 Sokomine while that particular mod is not important for now, i'd like to understand the error message and what causes it 12:47 nore Any thoughts on this? https://github.com/Novatux/minetest/commit/649947b44aecd8a36f24458891f9fde84c02ae87 12:48 nore (minetest.swap_node function) 13:00 sfan5 may I revert https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/3985c01ad71159b888677d0fe2019d7a05debeed ? 13:00 sfan5 it breaks things for me 13:02 nore what does it break? 13:03 sfan5 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=118534#p118534 13:03 sfan5 linking 13:03 nore you should perhaps wait for sapier to join then... he knows that more that I do 13:04 nore ah, and do you have any thoughts on https://github.com/Novatux/minetest/commit/649947b44aecd8a36f24458891f9fde84c02ae87 ? 13:04 sfan5 I don't see why I should wait for sapier, it worked perfectly before.. 13:05 sfan5 you should document the packet format in clientserver.h 13:05 nore yep, but for him, that fixed things... 13:06 nore sfan5, TOCLIENT_ADDNODE isn't documented either 13:06 sfan5 then that should be documented too 13:08 nore oh, and do I need to change protocol version? 13:09 sfan5 for that, I don't think you need to 13:09 sfan5 s/,/?/ 13:09 sfan5 the protocol is raised every release anyway 13:09 nore what will happen when a client receives the packet then? 13:09 sfan5 nothing 13:10 nore ah, so the swap_node call will not work for the client 13:10 sfan5 exactly 13:11 nore so, should I change protocol version, and if client does not know it, send add node and set metadata? 13:15 nore sfan5, and what about that? https://gist.github.com/Novatux/7510145 13:16 sfan5 hm 13:17 sfan5 I don't like the minetest.get_force_load_handler(), adds unnecessary java-like abstraction 13:17 nore yeah, but how do I know which mod is asking for force load? 13:19 nore without that, I don't see how it could be done... 13:20 sfan5 .. 13:20 sfan5 why do you need to know which mod force loads? 13:21 nore sfan5, to add a limit to each mod, and so that mods handle their force loaded blocks separately 13:21 nore i.e.: you can limit one mod to 5 blocks force loaded, and another one to 100 13:21 sfan5 mhm, then there is no other way 13:22 nore and if one mod does not use wisely force loading, you can set a maximum of 0 blocks... 13:23 nore the idea would be that the base API would only have 2 functions: minetest.force_load_raw(blockpos) and minetest.unload_raw(blockpos) 13:24 nore and the remaining things would be done in builtin (including saving force loaded blocks on server shutdown, etc) 13:25 sfan5 that would be the best way to do it 13:26 nore and do you think that one would have any chance to get merged, or that it will wait 1 year as the other ones? 13:27 sfan5 if PA doesn't disagree it will probably get merged quickly 13:28 nore ok, so I will code it... (I reckon it will take 1 or 2 weeks) 13:30 nore and about the swap node thing, no protocol version change, and a swapped node does not get swapped on old clients, is that ok? 13:49 celeron55 sfan5: don't revert; it was previously wrong, at least according to sapier 13:50 celeron55 ...but i think the build instructions weren't updated for it 13:50 celeron55 nor the build scripts or anything 13:50 celeron55 the thing is that mingw contains zlib already by itself which is linked in "mingw way", and with mingw that should be used instead of the downloadable one which is linked in "msvc way" 13:52 celeron55 this is an intolerable state though; either documentation needs to be updated or that has to be reverted 13:53 celeron55 why do people always leave things halfway done? it's terrible 13:55 sfan5 why do we need to fix something that isn't broken? that's terrible 14:01 celeron55 ask sapier 14:03 celeron55 it was something about possible issues coming from some libraries using a different zlib or so 14:03 celeron55 (those issues have never occurred) 14:29 hmmmm oh shit don't tell me that sapier's mingw fix broke things 14:41 PilzAdam hmmmm, sapiers mingw fix broke things 14:41 PilzAdam my build fails too 14:41 hmmmm we revert it 14:42 hmmmm sapier has a track record of breaking stuff, what the hell happened? :( 14:42 hmmmm is he getting bored with minetest and not really paying much attention to it or something? 14:43 PilzAdam well, maybe celeron55 is right and sfan5 and me just need to update your scripts 14:43 hmmmm try that first... 14:43 PilzAdam but then he should at least tell us how (our scripts are based on buildbot.sh, so that needs to be updated too) 14:43 sfan5 I have no clue what I need to update 14:43 hmmmm shit okay 14:43 hmmmm want to just revert until we get more information from sapeir 14:44 sfan5 ZLIB_LIBRARY is set to the .lib 14:44 sfan5 that is apparently wrong 14:52 hmmmm who was the guy who pasted that "assertion (0) failed" thing 14:52 hmmmm oh nevermind 14:52 hmmmm VanessaE, I found your bug 14:53 hmmmm on database-sqlite3.cpp:225, sqlite3_column_blob() failed and returned NULL 14:55 hmmmm "The return value from sqlite3_column_blob() for a zero-length BLOB is a NULL pointer." 14:55 hmmmm so evidently the root cause of this was that a mapblock failed to save evidently and placed 0 bytes into the data column 14:56 hmmmm although the database abstraction code should've been checking the return value before passing it along to a std::string ctor 15:09 hmmmm PilzAdam did you see that patch from last night 15:10 PilzAdam which patch? 15:10 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/4c2e6fa5131d6fd0d99d024c09fbfeec191cc9df 15:10 hmmmm i can't test that 15:11 PilzAdam proller and VanessaE reported the issue 15:11 hmmmm oh, change is_connected_player to is_player_connected in the lua before trying that 15:11 PilzAdam I guess one of them has to run it for some time to see if still happens 15:22 nore any thoughts on https://github.com/Novatux/minetest/commit/649947b44aecd8a36f24458891f9fde84c02ae87 ? 15:22 hmmmm yup 15:22 hmmmm my thought is that it's not being merged until after 0.4.8 15:26 hmmmm VanessaE, cherry-pick this commit and try it out: https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/c0ab4e495b2f76f08265a654798e21dfd95a6775 15:27 Calinou why not release 0.5 instead of 0.4.8, due to the amount of changes we done? 15:27 Calinou most projects would increment their "minor" version for such stuff 15:29 nore IIRC, 0.5.0 would be a big protocol change... 15:30 nore perhaps all protocol changing pulls at once, or something like that 15:43 Calinou it would make the project seem to be more "advancing" 15:43 Calinou protocol change doesn't have to be a specific version... 15:43 nore I mean, incompatibility with previous versions 15:44 nore http://dev.minetest.net/TODO#Big_protocol_changes 15:46 PilzAdam Calinou, we have already plans for 0.5.0 15:58 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/aa172bdda47555096524ac2331f0a285666f037b 16:07 kahrl hmmmm: the same should be done in database-leveldb.cpp 16:07 kahrl (I have no clue why that code is duplicated) 16:08 kahrl guess it isn't needed in database-dummy.cpp 16:08 hmmmm ahhh 16:08 hmmmm yeah that's true 16:14 hmmmm there's no real documentation for leveldb . 16:27 hmmmm although honestly the leveldb one wasn't necessary, I presume you'd get a SerializationError with a blank block. the reason why I had to fix that is because it was causing a really screwed up exception from implicitly converting NULL to a std::string (so now at least the player has the option of ignoring it) 16:28 hmmmm I suspect VanessaE is the one who comes up with all these errors because her world is so damn old 16:28 nore why would that cause problems? 16:29 hmmmm there is literally no way to trace the cause of the blank mapblock there. we don't know if it was a bug that was fixed or any information at all because there's a huge gap of time between those events 17:34 sapier sfan5 the msvc change requires to change cmake zlib configuration for your build (if you do a mingw/cygwin build) 17:35 PilzAdam sapier, you should fix that in buildbot.sh 17:36 sapier buildbot was broken before 17:36 sapier no idea how to make that thing work on any other system then the one who created it 17:36 OldCoder sapier PilzAdam sfan5: thexyz suggests that I file an issue report for hangs during "item definitions". This is observed repeatedly by different people. I may wait until kahrl httpfetch is merged to rule out network glitches. I wished to ask if you have observed such hangs yourself. 17:36 PilzAdam sapier, it works for me, and sfan5 17:36 PilzAdam and c55 17:37 sapier oldcoder httpfetch won't help as this most likely is a bug in shader loading 17:37 sapier yes and doesn't work for me PA ;-) 17:37 sapier that script is far from generic 17:37 PilzAdam well, your patch cant go in as long as it breaks buildbot.sh 17:38 PilzAdam we cant make your system work and break everyone else's 17:38 OldCoder sapier, Hmm... Is there a known shader loading bug? Should I file an issue? 17:38 sapier then revert it 17:38 PilzAdam hmmmm already did that 17:39 sapier ok I don't have any interest in fixing buidbot.sh as imho it's broken by design we can merge my cleanup once buildbot is fixed by someone else 17:40 sapier oldcoder if I remember correct shader preparation takes to long to complete resulting in timeouts that's what you see ... I'm not yet up to date but if my fix fore vanessae's crash was merged you should see an error on timeout 17:40 sfan5 sapier: broken by design? where exactly? 17:40 hmmmm so we're shipping bullshit that doesn't compile on mingw 17:41 hmmmm that's good 17:41 OldCoder sapier, Is the error on timeout intentional? Should I update in a few days? 17:41 sapier buildbot downloads binarys instead of downloading sources and compiling on its own this way the libs wout REALLY match and not be some combination that happens to not crash 17:42 OldCoder When did buildbot break? I was able to build Win32/64 MT clients OK two weeks ago 17:42 sapier the error message is intentional, whole design is based on asumption a timeout never occurs ... that's been root cause for vanessae's crash 17:42 OldCoder sapier, all right; so I should update after things settle down. Will the timeout be increased or do I misunderstand? 17:43 sapier it's broken for latest mingw on win7 64 17:43 OldCoder Ah 17:43 OldCoder But cross-compile for Windows works 17:43 OldCoder OK 17:43 sapier yes I assume it works for the compiler combination it was built at 17:43 hmmmm sapier, I'm gonna merge the RequestQueue fixes, any remarks before I do it? 17:44 sapier there are two things in there 17:45 sapier first commit is for broken multicaller handling (which isn't used at all atm) second is fix for vanessae crash 17:46 sapier but both should be fine 17:46 hmmmm the doxygen comment 17:46 hmmmm i guess i might as well merge that too 17:46 hmmmm pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 17:47 sapier the information of that comment is required ... style ... as always a matter of personal preference 17:48 hmmmm are you aware of any other critical bugs? 17:48 hmmmm there's a recent EmergeThread assertion that sokomine got but I didn't get any more information about that 17:49 sapier if they occured the last two days no I was offline 17:49 hmmmm it's actually probably a mod 17:49 sapier emegrge thread singleplayer or server? 17:49 hmmmm I just fixed something that tried to implicitly convert NULL to a std::string, triggered when a MapBlock is blank in the database, soo 17:49 hmmmm I don't have any more information about that one, it'd be nice if we had something like a backtrace 17:50 sapier ok that's not a good idea of course :) 17:50 sapier but a quite common error 17:50 hmmmm there's also this https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/c0ab4e495b2f76f08265a654798e21dfd95a6775 but I am waiting for people who had the problem to test it because I can't 17:50 sapier ok so atm there's only the modmgr stall left on way to 0.4.8 ? 17:51 hmmmm I don't know about the modmgr stall, I mean that's a really hefty feature 17:51 hmmmm isn't there any way to work around it? can you fix over the stall if the modmgr is disabled in the config? (for people who don't use it at least) 17:51 sapier it's a design issue with current implementation lacking async file doenload 17:52 sapier no the only fix is merging the async things ... either mine or httpfetch 17:52 hmmmm httpfetch isn't ready 17:53 sapier then I suggest adding the async things they just add features and don't change existing critical things 17:53 sapier risk of adding critical bugs is way less ... and httpfetch is mergable to async 17:54 PilzAdam sapier, a bug for you: while it downloads stuff after a click on "Online mod repo" change the tab; the result is a screwed up menu 17:54 hmmmm so your async thing is also a mechanism for inter-thread communication between lua instances 17:54 hmmmm I really don't know about all this, it's huge 17:55 hmmmm i'd rather wait on adding lua async 17:55 sapier hmm I thought I already fixed that on PA I'll have look at it 17:55 hmmmm there's really no way you can just temporarily disable it for people who don't use modmgr...? 17:56 sapier no the stall in favourites is not related to modmgr but has same root cause as modmgr stall 17:56 hmmmm well it's not like we're trapped with 0.4.8 for a half year 17:57 hmmmm so I think I'd like to follow up with a 0.4.9 with a lot of the features that were being held back here 17:57 hmmmm a month tops 17:58 sapier considering it's not that far to christmas I expect a lot of new features within the next months so I guess we'll have a lot of things to merge 18:00 sapier PilzAdam are you sure you did test the latest version of async? 18:00 PilzAdam Im using latest master 18:00 sapier are the async things merged? 18:01 sapier ok I think I need to have a closer look what happend the last two days :-) 18:02 hmmmm the async things are NOT merged yet and they won't be until after 0.4.8 is released 18:03 sapier hmmmm I'm not sure if releasing with favourites and modmgr stall is really a good idea 18:03 hmmmm people have been living with it up until now, and I'm more worried about some fatal bug being there 18:03 sapier especially the modmgr things will get worse once there are more mods in there 18:04 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Since you have a player object wouldn't simply player:is_connected() be better? 18:04 sapier but if we plan to release another version this year it should be ok ... just waiting till march 2014 is way to long 18:04 hmmmm the naming? 18:05 hmmmm there's is_player already, so why not is_player_connected? besides, what about get_player_name 18:05 * OldCoder requests priority for bug fixes such as the possible shader hang; these seem more important than new features 18:06 ShadowNinja Well get_name() could return something like tnt:tnt, while tnt can't be connected... 18:06 sapier oldcoder the errormessage is now in master if your hang is what I guessed it to be it should be obvious now 18:07 OldCoder sapier, I shall rebuild and test for you then 18:08 sapier if you can proove my guess is correct it'd ease finding it 18:08 sapier but it should be a client issue so no need to rebuild server 18:08 OldCoder I shall rebuild in the next two hours; just need to finish editing some posts and explaining to a startuper how to do MP3 to Ogg conversion 18:09 OldCoder Oh! Client issue... I will need to find people to try the rebuilt clients 18:09 * OldCoder shrugs and will report results 18:09 sapier if my guess is correct yes :-) if I'm wrong ... back to start ;-) 18:09 adama_ sorry if im butting, i was wondering if any one is having troubles with plants not growing in the latest git ?? 18:10 sapier hmm did you ask in minetest? people there usually spend more time playing 18:10 adama_ ya no luck 18:11 adama_ every thing was fine, then i compiled latest git and now no plants are growing 18:11 sapier interesting when did it work last? 18:11 adama_ day be for 18:11 sapier yesterday? 18:12 ShadowNinja adama_: What kind of plants? Trees? 18:12 adama_ no day b 4 that 18:12 sapier what exact version did you build? 18:13 adama_ i have the plants mod with flowers junglegrass and poison ivey 18:13 adama_ but no trees will grow from sapling or new plants spawn like flowers 18:13 PilzAdam have you updated minetest_game too? 18:13 ShadowNinja adama_: Perhaps you should speak with VanessaE in #minetest. Update minetest_game to get trees. 18:14 adama_ ya i delete old minetest folder then download and compile same as allways 18:15 adama_ ok thanks ShadowNinja 18:16 adama_ this is how i compile MineTest http://www.distrogeeks.com/install-minetest-ubuntu/ 18:16 ShadowNinja Fine if I close #1010? 18:16 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, I guess you can 18:18 PilzAdam adama_, thats outdated 18:19 PilzAdam see README.txt for up-to date build instructions 18:19 adama_ hmmm is there a diff git then i can use 18:19 adama_ that would explain my issue maybe 18:21 adama_ ok PilzAdam looking now 18:29 adama_ ok im off to do more reading thank you every one for the help 18:29 adama_ bye 18:42 VanessaE (still reading the backlog); hmmmm, c0ab4e49 applied and the related changes to mobs removed. 18:43 VanessaE whether we can trace the cause of a 'null' block, shouldn't the engine just refuse to bother with it, and perhaps even delete it? 18:44 VanessaE though I see you also have a patch to handle those null blocks. do I apply this also? 18:48 Sokomine hmmmm: i had that assertion bug, and vanessa said she had encountered it before as well. there's more in the debug.txt, which points to a particular mod, but i don't get a clue from the error message 18:51 VanessaE ok, I'm back. hi. 19:01 Sokomine here's the complete error message: http://pastebin.com/N4eLP62B i've added some debug messages to the suspicious glooptest mod. when the mod is run on its own, it seem to work. in the admittedly mod-rich "game" (singleplayer) i intend to use it it is just a question of seconds until the bug occours, and it seems each placement of such a chest fails 19:08 adama_ just wanted to let you know PilzAdam you was 100% correct and that fixed my issue thank you verry much 19:09 hmmmm VanessaE, I was briefly considering writing you a script to go through your entire map and remove bad blocks like that 19:10 VanessaE hmmmm: it would seem to me that if the engine finds a block it thinks should be perpetually ignored, it would be prudent for the engine to just delete that block altogether...provided sqlite can do so safely. 19:10 VanessaE (s/sqlite/the database backend/) 19:10 hmmmm it's more of a mapgen problem I'd say 19:10 hmmmm if you have one bad block it'll try to generate that entire chunk and overwrite everything else you've got 19:11 hmmmm with v6 in particular you'd get all your buildings in the surrounding area covered with a nice layer of grass 19:11 VanessaE yes, seen that before :P 19:12 VanessaE ick.. 19:25 sapier c_internal.cpp Line 60 makes std::string from char* pointer without prior check 19:27 VanessaE what's the status with https://github.com/sapier/minetest/commit/ffcf672125248926ec5481ce2c8578d87aa1011e 19:27 VanessaE is this going to be merged soon? 19:28 PilzAdam VanessaE, already done: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/b2d9205796eef23fd5d9a436d438fa2ca31ec21a 19:28 VanessaE oh! 19:28 VanessaE ok 19:28 VanessaE as usual, I'm a day late and a dollar short :P 19:38 sapier1 ShadowNinja can you fix c_internal.cpp L60? 19:39 ShadowNinja sapier1: GTG right now, I will check it later. 19:39 sapier1 ok 19:40 hmmmm "later" 19:40 hmmmm I wanna release this like, soon 19:41 hmmmm VanessaE, how is the get connected players fix working out so far? 19:41 VanessaE hmmmm: get http_fetch in. it (if done right) fixes the broken fetching of remote media 19:41 hmmmm httpfetch is not ready yet first off, second of all, no new features 19:41 VanessaE well, so far so good. No crashes yet but the servers aren't super-active right now 19:41 VanessaE httpfetch isn't a new feature. 19:41 VanessaE it's also a bugfix. remember, remote media is busted? 19:42 hmmmm erm 19:42 PilzAdam do we get #1000 in before 0.4.8? 19:42 hmmmm kahrl himself says it's 'not ready', and besides, sapier's async api can solve that 19:42 hmmmm yes we do pilzadam 19:42 VanessaE PilzAdam: I've had #1000 in place since c55 first asked 19:42 VanessaE it seems okay, but I haven't fully wrung it out yet. 19:43 VanessaE hmmmm: well, if sapier's code can fix it, that's fine. kahrl's code is shit-hot fast though :) 19:46 * OldCoder has tested httpfetch. Does this help? 19:46 OldCoder s/httpfetch/http_fetch/ 19:50 sapier1 my async api does not collide with kahrl's changes it's basicaly the interface to lua while kahrl's changes are interface to webserver 19:57 hmmmm sorry guys I don't mean to be pushy with the release but I do 19:58 hmmmm 0.4.8 was supposed to come like a month and a half after 0.4.7 but look at it 19:58 Sokomine oh? a fix for the object duplication? that sounds very fine 19:58 PilzAdam I dont feel very comfortable to release that fast 19:58 PilzAdam we wanted to pack some other games besides minetest_game 19:58 PilzAdam what do we do about that? 19:59 sapier1 imho that's a 0.4.9 issue (with targeted 0.4.9 christmas release ;-) 19:59 sfan5 0.4.9 should be released christmas? 19:59 Sokomine hm. how many are there? there are diffrent clones of mc, dwarves, realtest, the space game mauvebic is working on, technic to a degree... 20:00 sapier sfan5 :-) that's first time to say this 20:00 Sokomine adding some mods from which players could choose from might be more helpful 20:01 PilzAdam Sokomine, the problem with mods is that they all base on minetest_game, and thats not good 20:01 hmmmm holy shit 20:01 hmmmm christmas is way sooner than I thought it would be 20:02 sfan5 should we maybe include some mods in 0.4.[89] aswell? 20:02 PilzAdam sfan5, modstore should do that 20:03 hmmmm by the way about the "regular liquids not flowing" issue 20:03 hmmmm that was basically caused by proller reducing the liquid queue for regular liquids by a factor of 10 20:03 PilzAdam cant we just increase liquid_loop_max again? 20:03 hmmmm we could, do you want to do that? 20:04 hmmmm MAYBE it works for his finite liquid crap, but not so much for regular liquids. he freaking broke liquid flowing for any large-ish liquid flow caused by caves 20:04 PilzAdam defaultsettings.cpp and minetest.conf.example, anywhere else to change it? 20:04 hmmmm no 20:06 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a55c073ce9bd78a6ebbb867ab4db2ec611eb66cf 20:06 hmmmm yuup 20:06 PilzAdam hmmmm, oh, btw, I dont want to stop your rant, but it wasnt proller 20:06 hmmmm I thought it was? 20:06 PilzAdam it was me 20:07 hmmmm I could've sworn he reduced it because it wasn't needed 20:07 hmmmm when he added the randomly-remove-liquid-from-queue stuff 20:07 sapier do we want to add a gamestore in 4.9? 20:08 PilzAdam sapier, a _store_, not a tool to create games 20:08 sapier we already have a tool so I was talking about that one 20:08 PilzAdam just wanted to make that clear 20:08 PilzAdam that tool should be removed from the mainmenu, btw 20:09 sapier that tool is usefull if you download mods and want to use them 20:09 sapier at least if you don't want to configure each world again 20:10 hmmmm by the way, how's minetest_game looking for the release 20:10 PilzAdam an option to copy world configs should be added then 20:10 hmmmm any nagging issues with that? 20:10 PilzAdam but games arent something that every user should create 20:10 sapier that's one opinion PA 20:10 hmmmm I realize a lot of the time a pull request in the core also needs a minetest_game update that we forget about 20:11 sapier imho a game is just a collection of mods and everyone should be able to e.g. remove carts monorail simplemobs or whatever from his favourite game 20:11 VanessaE regarding water flowing, hmmmm, we slowed it down a while back because we found it was causing major CPU load for any kind of largish waterfall, fountain, etc. 20:12 PilzAdam sapier, what you talk about is a modpack 20:12 hmmmm water flowing should be optimized instead of gimped like that 20:12 VanessaE though at the time, we dod at least still have it flowing okay, if slowly. 20:12 VanessaE did* 20:12 hmmmm from what I understand that's the major CPU eater in the serverthread 20:12 PilzAdam sapier, a game is more than, it has a goal and fixed set of features; the "mods" in it are more "modules" than mods 20:12 sapier imho terms modpack/game are that similar they could be merged without loss of many information 20:13 PilzAdam VanessaE, the problem is that it doesnt work in singleplayer with 1000 20:13 PilzAdam VanessaE, and 10000 isnt a problem in singleplayer 20:13 PilzAdam sapier, then you didnt get the idea of games 20:14 sapier lol so you are in possession of the one and only truth PA? *smile* 20:14 PilzAdam sapier, the game creator spends a lot of time thinking about the game, its features, what to add and what not to add 20:15 sapier a game is (technicaly) nothing different then a modpack ... idealistic goals are not usefull for technical decisions 20:15 hmmmm is that REALLY the case most of the time? lol 20:16 sapier it's not worth to have the term "game" just tell ppl some modpacks are "better" then others 20:18 PilzAdam you should compare games to other games (_real_ games, outside of Minetest), and dont think about Minetest related stuff only 20:18 sapier then adding multiple "games" to official release would be bogus 20:19 PilzAdam well, we could either release the engine without games, or add some games to it; users have learn that Minetst is an engine, not a game 20:19 sapier and third option is releasing multiple packages 20:20 PilzAdam thats even better 20:20 PilzAdam so people go to their package manager and say "I want pilztest", and the Minetest engine is just downloaded like a normal dependency 20:21 sapier should be our goal yes but that requires some changes 20:22 sapier I'd prefere to see how windows users use modstore prior deciding how to continue 20:22 PilzAdam the problems with mods only is that they all base on minetest_game; they dont differ as much as games do 20:22 sapier do they really do? 20:23 PilzAdam mods cant do this: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6636 20:23 PilzAdam well, they technically can, but they would need to disable minetest_game completly 20:24 PilzAdam and then they are in-fact games 20:24 sapier I still don't understand why you seem to be obsessed games are anything special 20:25 sapier minetest_game is just a collection of mods not more not less 20:25 PilzAdam I think it would be best for Minetest in the long-term if people get the engine idea 20:25 PilzAdam sapier, minetest_game is a shitty game, its boring and featureless 20:26 hmmmm and you made it that way! 20:26 sapier I understand your frustration as you tried to make it better for some time but you'll have to live with fact that someone only designing a game will make better games than you as you split your attention through game/mod/engine 20:26 Exio4 why would minetest.get_connected_players even have non-connected players? 20:27 hmmmm Exio4, because of the gap in time when on_leaveplayer gets executed and the environment step gets executed 20:28 Exio4 ah 20:28 Sokomine pilzadam: i know how important that engine/game distinction is here on the channel, but it does not feel that important when actually playing the game. for that, it is good to have a common base - and that's minetest_game for me - with some crafts and blocks that are the same (more or less...) on all servers 20:28 hmmmm i explained it completely in the channel yesterday i think 20:28 PilzAdam the problems with minetest_games are different 20:29 Sokomine no need to learn how to make a chest or a pick anew most of the time. you can concentrate on making it special the way you want (or the server owner decided to go) 20:29 PilzAdam Sokomine, the problem is that when people usually say that Minetest isnt as good as MC they refer to minetest_game instead of the engine Minetest 20:30 hmmmm that's because the only people aware of the different games aren't casual enough to compare it to minecraft :p 20:31 Sokomine perhaps "selection of mods run on a server" is more important for most actual players most of the time. if a player looks for a rich survival-orientated game with mobs and what not (basically a copy of minecraft), then minetest_game alone will be disappointing 20:31 sapier PilzAdam modstore isn't in any official release let people decide again if they have choice 20:31 PilzAdam hmmmm, is_player_conneted() is the wrong name IMO, is_connected() is better since you already have a player ref 20:31 PilzAdam hmmmm, also lua-api.txt doc missing 20:31 hmmmm yes because it's an internal only function 20:31 hmmmm remember we went over all this? 20:32 PilzAdam then why not hide it outside of builtin? 20:32 hmmmm iunno 20:32 Sokomine yes, modstore will be very intresting 20:33 PilzAdam sapier, mods based on minetest_game dont show the full potential of the Minetest engine 20:33 sapier true but you can't have everything at once PA 20:33 sapier minetest will evolve as it did till now 20:33 PilzAdam who said that we are in hurry with this? 20:34 Sokomine perhaps that minimal development game is confusing as well. new players will start with that. then they'll read that there's minetest_game and they'll think: that's it. later on, they'll learn that there are mods which do what they specificly want 20:34 PilzAdam I just explained what I think should be the genral direction of Minetest 20:34 sapier I guess we won't be able to find the one and only direction :-) 20:35 PilzAdam we have to, directionless development sucks 20:35 sapier but imho that's not a weakness but most positiv feature 20:35 sapier no it doesn't linux doesn't have a direction too 20:36 hmmmm well I have a direction 20:36 hmmmm it's quite in line with what celeron wants too 20:36 sapier we have some basic principless "make engine as generic as possible" thats a quite good common base 20:37 hmmmm I'll tell you the big things that I am really looking forward to: 20:37 hmmmm - client side lua 20:37 hmmmm - more advanced environment synchronization 20:37 hmmmm - hardware lighting 20:37 hmmmm - the mapgen realm crap 20:38 PilzAdam sapier, exactly: _engine_; not: engine for a single game that is modified via mods 20:38 hmmmm - good mobs 20:38 sapier I have good mobs hmmmm ;-P 20:38 hmmmm sapier: I mean even better mobs. mobs that would make you shit your pants. 20:38 hmmmm that's only possible with client side lua 20:38 sapier it is 20:39 sapier mobs suffer from spawning and lack of async 20:39 sapier last one is on my list and gradualy improving ... of course it's not gonna be done tomorrow 20:40 sapier I try to add it step by step to have a working stable version anytime till target is reached 20:40 hmmmm so it's getting close 20:40 hmmmm does anybody have anything to say before 0.4.8 gets released? 20:41 sapier 1000 and async :-) 20:41 hmmmm any concerns or valid reasons why we should delay it further 20:41 sapier or at least 1000 20:41 sapier oh 1000 is in 20:51 PilzAdam hmmmm, we cant release without thexyz 20:51 sapier do we need a windows build? 20:51 PilzAdam of course we do 20:52 sapier mingw directx? 20:52 sfan5 do we need a windows build with directx? 20:52 PilzAdam MSVC produces better results 20:52 sfan5 it does? 20:52 sapier what is better in msvc? 20:52 PilzAdam http://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest says so 20:52 hmmmm it wouldn't surprise me 20:52 hmmmm PilzAdam, thexyz is gone for the night? 20:53 PilzAdam hmmmm, well, its kinda late in russia already, isnt it? 20:53 hmmmm i suppose so 20:53 sapier wouldn't be surprised msvc is better than that hybrid mingw version buildbot creates 20:53 * sfan5 has a windows pc with visual studio 2012 20:53 hmmmm well it doesn't have to be ALL at once.. 20:53 sapier msvc version is broken in terms of localization 20:53 PilzAdam hmmmm, "Be sure that the windows build works before continue to do anything!" 20:53 sapier my fix does just cure worst effects 20:54 sapier ok I'm gonna build mingw as well as msvc now 20:54 PilzAdam we cant actually release without a win build 20:54 hmmmm :/ 20:54 sfan5 if someone can gimme irrlicht with directx its good to go 20:54 PilzAdam sapier, we still need thexyz, he hosts the builds 20:54 sapier yes but we can prepare and do the checks now 20:54 hmmmm well I have work tomorrow, soo 20:54 PilzAdam I personally would feel more comfortable with a bit more testing, though 20:55 hmmmm well sure, okay 20:55 hmmmm change the topic to code freeze 20:55 PilzAdam "code freeze"? 20:55 hmmmm yup 20:56 thexyz yes? 20:56 hmmmm upstream stays the same as it is right now until it gets released 20:56 PilzAdam so no bugfixes? 20:56 hmmmm we had like a week and longer of bugfixes 20:56 hmmmm if they're really bad then sure 20:56 hmmmm hey thexyz wanna do a msvc build 20:56 thexyz uh, not now, sorry 20:56 hmmmm ;/ 20:57 hmmmm pilzadam: at this point I am pretty sure all of the most pressing issues are solved 20:57 hmmmm if they're really critical bugs, like bugs with what we just fixed, then sure yeah 20:58 hmmmm I suppose we can call what we have right now in upstream a release candidate 20:58 PilzAdam thats what makes me feel uncomfortable, we _just_ fixed major bugs 20:58 hmmmm so we'll let the dust settle 20:59 hmmmm alright, 0.4.8 delayed again :/ 21:00 PilzAdam I would have time on tuesday from 16:00 to 20:00 UTC 21:00 PilzAdam or do we wait until next weekend? 21:02 sapier windows build has a lot of redefine warnings 21:02 hmmmm I work this week until 23 UTC 21:03 sapier guess this should be addressed for 0.4.9 21:03 hmmmm so really I'm only free from 23:00 to 6:30 UTC 21:07 PilzAdam we need to update the changelog in the dev wiki and pull in latest translations 21:07 sapier current mingw32 native libs doesn't build but we knew that before 21:08 sapier and msvc doesn't build either 21:11 hmmmm that's great 21:11 hmmmm so what's the problem now 21:11 sapier no idea I don't see any issue in there 21:15 sapier ok now it's really strange 21:16 sapier msbuild minetest.sln /p:Configuration=Release /t:Clean,Build runs fine if run twice 21:16 sapier but it should cleanup prior any run 21:16 sapier so whats difference? 21:21 Exio4 can't https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1009 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/950 get closed atm? 21:22 VanessaE about #950 ... isn't that also indicative of a mapgen bug? 21:22 PilzAdam Exio4, done 21:22 VanessaE I've seen this countless times 21:23 hmmmm it' 21:23 hmmmm it's not 21:23 VanessaE ok 21:24 hmmmm things coming out messy like that is a natural consequence of procedural generation if you want anything to be interesting at all 21:24 VanessaE well sure, but huge saves full of suspended-in-the-air lava layers? is that also normal? :) 21:25 VanessaE caves* 21:25 hmmmm same reason with spines, floating blocks, and lava in water - if you really hate it that much then why don't you fix it yourself 21:25 hmmmm see how easy that is :p 21:25 hmmmm vanessae, that's what happens when liquid doesn't flow 21:26 VanessaE fair enough 21:26 VanessaE it just struck me as odd that the lava wasn't already being placed in the empty spaces is all. 21:26 VanessaE but whatever 21:26 VanessaE if making liquid reflow solves it, so be it : 21:26 VanessaE :P 21:26 hmmmm the thing in that picture is two 'large caves' being generated into eachother 21:27 Exio4 also, what's up with weather stuff? 21:28 VanessaE hmmmm: ah, well I'm thinking of a different screenshot actually 21:28 VanessaE (which, of course, I've since deleted) 21:36 BlockMen sapier, i just pulled lastest master and it builds fine for me (msvc 2010) 21:38 VanessaE hmmmm: I meant stuff more like this: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011172013%20-%2004%3a36%3a51%20PM.png 21:38 VanessaE surely those partial meshes can't be a liquid reflow bug. 21:39 sapier interesting ... didn't build for me right after cmake but did build again on second try MSVC2012 21:39 hmmmm probably some sort of cache thing 21:39 PilzAdam VanessaE, flowing liquids dont have a face at the bottom 21:40 PilzAdam so if they "hang" in the air then the result looks like your image 21:40 BlockMen sapier, what error you get? 21:40 BlockMen *in first try 21:41 sapier unresolved symbol init_gettext 21:42 BlockMen thats caused by missing gettext.cpp in minetest project folder. it seems not be included there when creating project file with cmake 21:43 sapier why? 21:44 BlockMen idk 21:44 sapier and why is it there on second run 21:45 VanessaE PilzAdam: it's hard to tell from the screenshot, but some of those suspended, partial meshes are lava sources. 21:46 VanessaE the darker ones (don't mind that, it's some sort of lighting or shaders glitch) 21:46 PilzAdam VanessaE, change the visuals of flowing lava to "unknown node", and see if it fits my explenation 21:47 VanessaE PilzAdam: lava *sources*. 21:47 VanessaE might be easier if you join the survival server and teleport to those coords and have a look around 21:52 VanessaE I can't exactly show the movement of the flowing vs. sources in a screenshot :P 22:00 PilzAdam VanessaE, I have to see all the flowing nodes to see if my guess is wrong or right, so it would help if you change the visuals of it 22:01 VanessaE it would take less time and disturb fewer players if you just sign in, teleport, and look around :P 22:01 VanessaE I don't even care if anyone fixes it. I just want someone who "matters" to SEE it. 22:05 RealBadAngel hi, ive pulled reworked shaders: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1013 22:30 Tesseract sapier: Do you think that script_error/ModApiBase::scriptError should check that the value at the top of the stack is a string? 22:31 sapier yes as a null pointer is returned if it isn't 22:33 Tesseract Well it's intended to only be called if you have just run a failed pcall and have a traceback or other error on the top of the stack. 22:33 sapier obviously it isn't 22:34 sapier according to sokomines researches if you define a entity with nil collisionbox you get a instant crash 22:36 Tesseract This is definitely caused by this? 22:37 Tesseract The crash caused by this piece of code that is. 22:38 Tesseract I beleive lua_pcall always places a string on the stack, even in the case of LUA_ERRERR or LUA_ERRMEM. 22:40 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, why do you remove all shaders? 22:41 RealBadAngel because now there are no multiple shaders for a material 22:41 RealBadAngel only solids, liquids and alpha 22:41 PilzAdam but why do you remove them then? 22:42 RealBadAngel because i renamed test* to solids_shader etc 22:42 PilzAdam no, you didnt rename, you just removed them 22:42 PilzAdam https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/tree/48a9a95cbaf5b3f6f02cbe0d90dcbbe6979e2ec6/client 22:42 VanessaE um, RBA, there are no glsl files in this patch? 22:42 RealBadAngel there are 22:43 RealBadAngel yes i did removed old files 22:43 RealBadAngel theyre no longer needed 22:43 PilzAdam but you didnt add new ones 22:43 RealBadAngel ? 22:43 PilzAdam you completly removed client/shaders/, see the link I posted 22:43 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~/Minetest-related/minetest_client$ ls client/ 22:43 VanessaE serverlist 22:44 RealBadAngel shit :) i dont know how that could happen 22:44 RealBadAngel gimme a second 22:44 PilzAdam btw, its nice that you use branches now 22:48 VanessaE "liquids shader"? 22:48 VanessaE please tell me this is not your experimental rippling water thing 22:49 RealBadAngel it is not 22:49 VanessaE ok 22:49 RealBadAngel check the pull now, it contains missing files now 22:49 VanessaE trying. 22:50 RealBadAngel i have absolutely no idea why smartgit havent pulled them before 22:51 RealBadAngel propably thx to playing with branches 22:51 RealBadAngel anyway its fixed now 22:52 VanessaE um, why is flowing water opaque? and why does lava source have a darker top side than flowing lava? 22:53 VanessaE come to think of it, water source is opaque too. 22:54 RealBadAngel can you make a screenshot with water? 22:55 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011172013%20-%2005%3a55%3a13%20PM.png 22:55 RealBadAngel for me it looks fine: http://i.imgur.com/klVx8eO.png 22:56 VanessaE for the channel log, RBA's screenshot is from my Survival server. 22:57 RealBadAngel can you check the water with Bumped texture pack? 22:57 VanessaE no. 22:57 VanessaE make it work properly without bumps first. 22:57 RealBadAngel lemme check the HDX then 22:58 VanessaE the dark lava sources and opaque water might be a long-standing problem, but with shaders on it should "just work" 22:58 RealBadAngel lemme check why that happens 22:59 VanessaE *checks without shaders* 22:59 VanessaE looks fine without shaders, though lava's kinda dim by comparison 23:00 RealBadAngel i think i know why 23:00 RealBadAngel your water is simply opaque 23:00 VanessaE (and now lava sources are slightly brighter than flowing) 23:00 VanessaE yeh, so? 23:00 VanessaE it works fine without shaders 23:00 RealBadAngel it doesnt provide alpha channel at all 23:00 VanessaE so? 23:00 RealBadAngel so its wrong 23:00 VanessaE provide it yourself in the code 23:00 RealBadAngel me? in irrlicht? 23:01 RealBadAngel sorry, just save it with alpha channel 23:01 VanessaE um 23:01 VanessaE it's a jpeg 23:01 VanessaE jpegs don't support alpha. 23:01 VanessaE and again *it works fine without shaders* 23:01 RealBadAngel save it in format that supports it then 23:02 RealBadAngel even default water is a png 23:03 VanessaE then why do these textures work fine without shaders? 23:03 RealBadAngel because alpha here is faked 23:03 VanessaE then fake it in the shader too? 23:03 RealBadAngel but shaders need actual real value 23:04 Tesseract I don't like how your shaders break use_texture_alpha and similar things. 23:04 RealBadAngel and theres no way to say whether designer added alpha or not 23:04 VanessaE RealBadAngel: exactly my point. SO FAKE IT. 23:04 RealBadAngel thats the texture2D sampler thing 23:04 RealBadAngel not my idea 23:05 NakedFury dont fake it 23:05 RealBadAngel repeat, theres no way to say if sampler holds the data or not 23:06 RealBadAngel so i cannot check if user provided alpha or not. only logical way is to assume it has to be provided 23:06 VanessaE um.. isn't water supposed always have a constant alpha anyway? 23:06 RealBadAngel alpha channel is supposed to define alpha 23:07 RealBadAngel not some friggin tricks 23:07 VanessaE not with water 23:07 PilzAdam got an email from launchpad about a failed build: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/daily-builds/+recipebuild/585830 23:07 RealBadAngel with everything, including water 23:08 VanessaE RealBadAngel: that represents a fundamental change that may break more than just some textures then 23:08 RealBadAngel huh? 23:08 RealBadAngel how could that happen? 23:08 VanessaE because the server also has a concept of how opaque the water is supposed to be 23:09 VanessaE the WATER_ALPHA parameter in a node def. 23:09 RealBadAngel hrmmm 23:09 VanessaE or rather the variable sometimes used therein 23:09 RealBadAngel ok, i will add that trick back 23:10 VanessaE but wait 23:10 VanessaE let me see how this looks with PNG's + alpha. 23:10 RealBadAngel for sake of compability, but its just wrong 23:11 RealBadAngel ofc it will work perfectly 23:11 RealBadAngel it does with default textures and both my texture packs 23:16 VanessaE ok, that fixes the water transparency. 23:16 VanessaE but lava is still screwed up. 23:16 VanessaE see the previous screenshit 23:16 VanessaE er screenshot* 23:16 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011172013%20-%2005%3a55%3a13%20PM.png 23:16 VanessaE the darker lava is sources. 23:17 VanessaE without shaders, at least when I looked earlier, they were almost the same brightness (in fact sources were slightly brighter then) 23:17 VanessaE THIS is ugly as shit 23:21 VanessaE RealBadAngel: I can accept the need for an alpha channel in the water to make it look right, but that lava's gotta be fixed, at least in the shader (I expect out-of-shader changes would be needed as well) 23:21 RealBadAngel propably the very same issue 23:22 RealBadAngel alpha when not provided is just a random value in uniform sampler 23:22 RealBadAngel im checkin it now 23:22 VanessaE the lava images have alpha. 23:22 RealBadAngel jpgs? 23:22 VanessaE at least now they do. 23:22 VanessaE no, I changed all lava and water to PNG + alpha. 23:22 VanessaE let me push to HDX 23:23 RealBadAngel ok 23:26 VanessaE ok, go ahead and pull. 23:26 VanessaE bbl, dinner 23:47 VanessaE back