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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-11-01

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Time Nick Message
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02:39 VanessaE are there any active devs on right now?
02:44 * VanessaE random-highlights...  sfan5 celeron55 thexyz proller kahrl
02:47 thexyz VanessaE: that's not our problem why bother with it?
02:48 VanessaE eh?
02:48 VanessaE oh the android thing?  not talking about that :)
02:48 VanessaE however as long as you mention it, I was thinking from a name/publicity standpoint.
02:48 VanessaE but anyway
02:49 VanessaE #967
02:49 VanessaE what's the word on this?
02:53 VanessaE the only change this pull needs is that the image scale of the sun and moon should be made the same, and made abotu twice as big as they are now.  Compensate for this by altering the actual images (add some empty padding).
02:54 VanessaE (this allows some extra space in texture pack images for a corona around the sun)
02:54 RealBadAngel this is subject for another pull
02:54 VanessaE yes
02:54 VanessaE one pull at a tyime
02:54 VanessaE time*
02:54 RealBadAngel that will add settings
02:55 RealBadAngel ie moon_size = x, sun_size = y
02:56 VanessaE oh hell, got my two windows swapped around.
02:56 VanessaE for now, let's merge this patch
02:56 RealBadAngel i havent done this because im not sure about how it should be done
02:57 VanessaE I use it on my client, there seem to be no performance issues that I can spot, and it works exactly as one would expect it to.
02:57 VanessaE (this patch == #967)
02:57 RealBadAngel imho such settings shall be set by texture pack itself
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02:58 RealBadAngel but then, theres no way currently to let texture pack set anything
02:59 RealBadAngel C55 started to code api for sky.cpp but this is a mod approach
03:03 RealBadAngel VanessaE, if any (performance) issues, patch imho should be faster than previous code
03:03 RealBadAngel before it called 3 times irrlicht routine to draw primitive quad
03:03 RealBadAngel now it draws only one texture
03:03 VanessaE perhaps.  either way, it doesn't slow anything down and it works exactly like it should
03:04 RealBadAngel (4 times in case of moon)
03:05 RealBadAngel anyway main reason of keeping this thing alive was the fact of inabilitly to tint properly the sun
03:06 RealBadAngel there was some weird code in sky.cpp to calculate colors that were never used
03:06 RealBadAngel i got rid of that thx to tonemaps
03:07 RealBadAngel and i can say just i was observing dawns and the sunsets IRL lately
03:07 RealBadAngel colors shifting is just accurate
03:08 VanessaE thanks to my tweaks ;)
03:08 RealBadAngel i have tweaked your tweaks ;)
03:09 RealBadAngel but yes, it was team work
03:12 VanessaE guys come on, what's the delay here
03:12 VanessaE yes or no?
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08:11 nore I have a question: should the grow grass/remove grass/grow saplings ABMs left in core, or moved to Lua?
08:34 celeron55 RealBadAngel: they are not alternative approaches
08:34 celeron55 RealBadAngel: what you are doing is extra functionality for the "regular" sky
08:36 celeron55 RealBadAngel: does the default sun and moon look the same as currently? looking at the image files, they don't seem to have such functionality
08:36 celeron55 i made the sun be colored in a very specific way which is much better than coloring it with just one color
08:37 celeron55 i don't want any regressions here
08:37 nore celeron55, do you think the grow grass/remove grass/grow saplings ABMs should be moved to Lua?
08:37 celeron55 nore: it depends on whether their speed is roughly equivalent there
08:38 nore that's what I am testing right now...
08:38 celeron55 saplings at least should be
08:38 nore yes, I reckon it is
08:48 nore strange bug:
08:48 nore I get that:
08:48 nore 09:47:04: ERROR[main]: ServerError: LuaError: error: attempt to call a nil value
08:48 nore 09:47:04: ERROR[main]: stack traceback:
08:48 nore and then nothing
08:48 nore (no stack traceback, no indication of where it crashed, nothing)
08:49 celeron55 sometimes that happens; dunno why
08:50 nore yes, but there it is not sometimes
08:50 nore it is each time I try to start the server
08:50 celeron55 i don't know in what set of cases it can't get a traceback
08:50 celeron55 there's probably some logic for that though 8)
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09:07 nore celeron55, I may have found where it comes from
09:07 nore (testing right now)
09:08 nore but I reckon it is a callback that I defined in another branch, and then I switched branches
09:08 nore and forgot to recompile
09:08 nore to it looks like when C calls Lua functions, and there is an error, there is no traceback
09:09 nore ok, it was indeed that
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09:27 celeron55 but isn't that what *always* happens?
09:28 celeron55 the only time when lua code is executed without C calling a function is at load time
09:29 nore no, I mean, C tried to call a nil value
09:29 nore instead of calling of function that called a nil value
09:29 celeron55 ah, yes, that makes sense
09:29 nore anyway, I managed to code this ABMs in Lua
09:30 nore and I don't see more server load than before, even with both running at once
09:30 nore moreover, those ABMs don't execute very often
09:31 nore (average time are 500, 400 and 40s)
09:45 nore celeron55, https://github.com/Novatux/minetest/commit​/c656b6ecff88338ed6c181d33ab230a420fcce26
09:46 nore I also put the sapling growing functions in default.grow_tree and default.grow_jungletree so a mod can override them if wanted
09:46 proller need snow remover abm
09:47 nore that can be added in the game too, no need to put it in the engine
09:47 proller https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/882/f​iles#diff-2e849c6a20ae0b361d0acb000da3ae02R105
09:48 celeron55 really the grass stuff should probably be considered a game thing too...
09:48 celeron55 and tree
09:48 celeron55 and well, that's what that does
09:48 nore I will make a pull for minetest_game too if it is ok
09:49 nore anyway, the trees should grow exactly as before with that pull, I changed nothing
09:49 RealBadAngel celeron55, the patch contains textures that look exactly like old sun and moon
09:49 nore another advantage is that now a mod can override, so if a mod doesn't want saplings to grow in deserts, it can do that...
09:52 celeron55 RealBadAngel: so does it look like this? http://imgur.com/a/rCb4k
09:53 celeron55 i wonder if there would be some sane way of handling this stuff that isn't really engine stuff and isn't really game stuff where it doesn't need to be decided which it is
09:53 nore well, perhaps there should be no objects at all by default
09:54 nore and each game would have to register sun and moon
09:54 nore as objects moving in the sky
09:55 RealBadAngel celeron55, http://i.imgur.com/CdBomHE.png http://i.imgur.com/QWWivwV.png
09:55 celeron55 RealBadAngel: the sun is all the same color; it looks bad
09:55 RealBadAngel its the texture
09:56 RealBadAngel it can look way different if you want to
09:56 celeron55 you can't make a sun like the current one with your system
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09:56 RealBadAngel why dont you try the commit instead of talkin what can be done?
09:57 RealBadAngel because youre wrong
09:57 celeron55 because i already know and if it could be done, you'd have already done it
09:57 RealBadAngel no you dont know
09:57 RealBadAngel do i need to make another screenshots? :)
09:57 celeron55 yes, take screenshots of a sun made with that that resembles the current one
09:58 celeron55 or at least doesn't look worse
09:58 nore celeron55, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/976 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/209
09:59 nore (both pulls go together)
10:01 nore ^ any thoughts on this?
10:02 celeron55 my thought is that it's a pain in the ass for other games...
10:02 proller how fast it is? when you fast moving and world generating?
10:04 celeron55 this goes back somewhat to the "common mods" thing, but would somthing like "builtin mods" work? a game could enable or disable them and they would be reserved mostly for this kind of "common sense" stuff, also for weather and things like that
10:04 nore proller, I did not see difference
10:04 celeron55 and they would reside in the engine repo
10:04 celeron55 and they would default to being like what the engine has previously done by itself
10:05 nore well, about other games, they only have to copy the code...
10:05 nore but perhaps what would be possible would be a "mod library"
10:06 proller i think core must have tree grow api (with step-by-step grow), and mods must define schemes and conditions
10:06 celeron55 if they want to run on multiple minetest versions, they need to check the version, so this change should be added to minetest.features
10:06 nore and games that want e.g. sapling growth would do dofile(minetest.get_library​_path().."treegrowth.lua")
10:06 celeron55 nore: i think they should be packaged exactly like any mod, because that system works
10:06 celeron55 but in a special location
10:07 nore yes, but a game would need to enable/disable them
10:07 nore i.e., for sapling growth, the code need to be run after the nodes are registered
10:07 celeron55 the enabling and disabling them would need to be special though... uhm, well that's ugly
10:07 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/DsuNv1Q.png
10:08 nore whereas with a dofile(minetest.get_library("treegrowth"))
10:08 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/UIXDU51.png
10:08 nore it would be easy
10:08 nore or even minetest.load_library(treegrowth)
10:08 celeron55 nore: that cannot be made to be default behavior with non-updated games
10:08 celeron55 so it's useless for the purpose i wanted it for
10:09 nore I did not understand the purpose... is it to make current games able to run without modifications?
10:09 RealBadAngel celeron55, and now?
10:09 celeron55 RealBadAngel: those are completely different and don't have good varying colors at all
10:10 celeron55 RealBadAngel: you don't understand; good colors are important, plain textures are just one way of visualizing things
10:10 RealBadAngel have you actually tried how the colors change during time?
10:10 celeron55 nore: imagine your patches being put in 0.4.8, and imagine yourself running some independent subgame in it
10:11 celeron55 nore: it won't have sapling or grass growth at all
10:11 celeron55 which is bad
10:11 celeron55 unless it's updated
10:11 RealBadAngel they are defined using a tonemap, and the tinting is made with it
10:12 celeron55 RealBadAngel: i want separate tints for multiple parts of the sun; that's what the current sun does
10:12 RealBadAngel huh? its the very same colour and different aplha
10:13 RealBadAngel *alpha
10:13 celeron55 i don't understand why you try to do this visual stuff when you don't have good judgement on what looks good
10:14 RealBadAngel this does look good. and is textureable
10:14 celeron55 it doesn't, and you apparently can't understand it
10:15 RealBadAngel whats wrong with it then?
10:15 celeron55 i have already explained it
10:16 nore celeron55, I just had an idea:
10:16 nore games need to do minetest.register_alias("sapling", sapling_name) to have sapling growth
10:16 RealBadAngel i dont get it. everybody around says its cool lookin but just you
10:17 nore so minetest.register_alias could be changed to get that and register the tree growth ABM
10:17 RealBadAngel with the textures i made it does look nearly the same as before
10:17 RealBadAngel only tinting changes the visual
10:17 nore of course, that would be marked as deprecated and removed in a future version
10:17 celeron55 RealBadAngel: it looks like a square-shaped orange fruit on the sky; not like a bright sun
10:18 celeron55 to visualize brightness, you need to "overflow" the brightness to white
10:18 RealBadAngel it looks exactly the same as before without other textures
10:18 celeron55 but show the border as some other color
10:18 RealBadAngel youre blaming me for original look??
10:18 RealBadAngel put there round texture with halo
10:18 celeron55 nore: hmm, what about grass?
10:19 nore same thing, IIRC
10:19 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/IFLGLay.png
10:19 RealBadAngel like this one
10:19 RealBadAngel its textureable for christ sake
10:19 nore ah, no
10:20 RealBadAngel more, texture pack maker can provide his own tinting file
10:20 nore it is mapgen_dirt, mapgen_dirt_with_grass, but dirt_with_snow
10:20 nore and snow too
10:21 celeron55 RealBadAngel: it's like saying "hey i made a car; it doesn't have front tires but you can have any kind of rear tires you want"
10:21 RealBadAngel no it does have tires that you have designed
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10:21 nore celeron55, perhaps detect the dirt_with_snow alias
10:21 RealBadAngel to not change original feel
10:21 nore and if so, register the ABM
10:22 nore (it is getting more and more hacky)
10:22 RealBadAngel i made square textures to keep it
10:22 celeron55 nore: maybe compatibility should just be dropped...
10:22 nore I don't mind about that...
10:22 nore moreover, it is a game thing, not a mod thing
10:22 nore and there are max. 10 games out there
10:22 celeron55 yeah, i guess it's fine
10:23 nore ok, 30
10:23 celeron55 it probably should be implemented as a separate mod in minetest_game so that it's easy to take into use anywhere
10:23 celeron55 or should it?
10:23 nore I don't know
10:24 celeron55 my opinion on minetest_game is that nothing should be added to default anymore
10:24 nore well, sapling growth is default
10:24 celeron55 it's too bloated and if adding stuff to it continues, it cannot be used as an universal based for games anymore because of it's bloatness
10:24 RealBadAngel celeron55, take a look at this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jV7Oxw-IJo
10:24 celeron55 base*
10:24 nore so perhaps leave it here...
10:24 nore celeron55, almost any game tweaks default anyway
10:24 RealBadAngel actual tinting file in commit is a bit different, but its pretty close
10:24 celeron55 RealBadAngel: i think i'll use my time more productively than argue with you
10:26 nore celeron55, however, should I change something to warn the games that there is no sapling growth?
10:27 celeron55 nore: i don't know; we really should have some regular way of handling things like these, as this kind of things are going to happen in the future
10:28 nore so, I should add it to features.lua?
10:29 nore this can be thought as a regular way to handle that
10:29 celeron55 yes, because it's an undetectable feature
10:29 celeron55 or, change
10:30 celeron55 or... umm... well, it can be detected by checking if default.grow_tree exists, but that's quite arbitrary
10:30 nore Is no_legacy_abms a good name for that?
10:30 celeron55 yes
10:30 RealBadAngel celeron55, so you dont like it to be plain colours, ok. but what about shape? shall it be squarish as before or more round?
10:30 nore celeron55, no since it is for a game
10:31 nore celeron55, pushed
10:31 celeron55 RealBadAngel: shape is not an issue with textures
10:31 nore RealBadAngel, about tinting
10:32 nore it could be possible to make the image to be tinted use RGB
10:32 nore and have 3 tintmaps, one for each channel in the image to be tinted
10:32 celeron55 that would allow what i want
10:33 RealBadAngel that could only be done using shaders
10:33 nore why not? how is tinting done right now?
10:33 RealBadAngel emissive light of a material
10:33 celeron55 not if you separated r, g and b to different images and overlaid them with different emissive lights
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10:34 celeron55 or had them separate from the start
10:34 nore in that case, 2 colors should be enough, no?
10:35 celeron55 enough for something that looks like the current sun, yes; the amount of channels is kind of arbitrary though
10:35 nore that's why it is perhaps best to have a single image
10:35 celeron55 this really is a thing in which a client-side script would be immensely more good than anything else
10:36 nore so it would be less heavy to send textures
10:37 RealBadAngel current moon texture is 286 bytes...
10:37 nore celeron55, if you have got some time, could you check #966 please?
10:37 nore RealBadAngel, yes, you may be right that it is not needed
10:37 RealBadAngel its tone map is 260 bytes
10:38 celeron55 nore: did someone look at it already?
10:39 celeron55 i really need to do something else right now
10:39 nore RealBadAngel did it, and PilzAdam did too but had no time to test the latest version
10:39 nore but if you have no time, it isn't really a problem, I will wait
10:41 celeron55 maybe i'll throw you and shadowninja or someone in github members now so you can maybe do something
10:41 celeron55 altough no matter who i put in there, you're going to be on your own for today and not be able to do anything 8D
10:41 celeron55 (proably)
10:41 celeron55 +b
10:42 celeron55 i'm very hesitant in agreeing with this ABM thing, because there have been many things recently that have turned out not ideally
10:43 celeron55 it feels like it would be best to halt all development and say it's done and will only go worse
10:43 celeron55 and it sucks
10:43 RealBadAngel i have altered the look of the sun a bit: http://i.imgur.com/vrTlUjv.png http://i.imgur.com/uOjgKNL.png http://i.imgur.com/vwukEre.png
10:43 proller 101% of servers now have HUGE lags
10:44 proller part of lag from lot of slow abm
10:44 nore proller, those ABMs are very rarely triggered
10:44 celeron55 proller: coding an army of ABMs in C++ is not a sustainable solution
10:44 nore and they don't use much time
10:44 celeron55 there will always be more content and having always more content in the engine is just bad
10:45 proller celeron55, but coding good fast c++ api may help
10:45 nore the one that is slowest is sapling growth, but that one triggers only once every 500s
10:45 nore and once it has triggered, it won't do it anymore
10:45 proller nore, but always on generate?
10:45 nore what do you mean, on generate
10:45 nore these are not called on generate
10:45 proller on map generate
10:46 proller 2 ways to row tree?
10:46 proller grow
10:46 nore sapling growth is not called on map generate
10:46 nore it is only for ABM, the map generate one is still C++
10:46 celeron55 would it be possible to expose the engine's tree grow code to lua for that? it probably is
10:46 proller trees grow code must be in one place
10:47 proller and lua is slow place for it
10:47 nore celeron55, there are 2 possibilities
10:47 celeron55 altough, we could just as well just change both to some reasonably similar L-system tree
10:47 nore 1. tree growth code is in C++, but then no mod can override it
10:47 celeron55 (assuming it doesn't have performance problems)
10:47 nore 2. it is in Lua, but if called by the mapgen, it gets slow
10:48 proller L-system + good conditions (heat, humidity. neibhours)
10:48 nore and L-system trees are slow
10:48 celeron55 well fuck
10:48 nore proller, yes, but what if a mod wants its own humidity functions?
10:48 proller nore, for what?
10:49 nore proller, for everything... (mapgen, etc)
10:49 celeron55 maybe because the engine doesn't have proper ones for a kind of world it wants to do
10:49 nore for example, when coding mg, I use custom temperature and humidity noises
10:49 proller maybe define condition callback
10:50 nore remember that callbacks are slow
10:50 proller and mod can deside about growing here and ask engine to start grow
10:50 nore on the other hand, it is possible to do a fast lua-only mapgen
10:51 nore with the perlin maps and voxel manips, it is possible to do almost as fast as C++ mapgen
10:52 nore tests by hmmmm:
10:52 nore minetest.env:set_node: 6854.4ms
10:52 nore VoxelManip:                   153.5ms
10:52 nore Mapgen in core:            60ms (estimated)
10:52 celeron55 should we switch the mapgen to completely lua? 8)
10:52 proller i want to make step-by-step growing and leaves recovery - its maybe too slow in lua
10:52 nore no, but we don't need to change everything...
10:52 celeron55 proller: then it won't be done
10:53 celeron55 proller: unless it's generic enough
10:53 nore proller, if you use voxelmanip, I reckon it can be done fast enough
10:56 celeron55 i added nore, ShadowNinja and sapier to core devs now
10:56 celeron55 hopefully stuff doesn't completely explode
10:57 proller nore, its was set only benchmark? growing tree needs lot of get_node
10:57 nore celeron55, could we be added in the credits tab too please?
10:57 celeron55 just add yourself
10:57 celeron55 lol
10:57 nore proller, get_node is done with voxelmanip...
10:57 nore one call, and you have all nodes
10:59 celeron55 i'm basing this addition on the hope that if people follow what i wrote here, it's possible to avoid huge conflicts in direction and unmergeable work: http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491
10:59 celeron55 maybe this is the worst decision of the year, but that i'll see next year
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10:59 celeron55 8D
11:02 celeron55 (well yeah, that was inappropriate; but i'm full of inappropriateness)
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12:27 proller nore, commiting without approve and waiting few months prohibited !
12:29 nore what is prohibited? waiting not enough or too long?
12:30 nore anyway, that commit was approved... ;)
12:30 nore proller, ^
12:32 VanessaE celeron55: While I understand your desire to keep the different parts of the sun/moon tinted as they are now, does it truly matter if they change a little bit for the sake of overall improvement?  I know the type of change that is necessary to get exactly the effect you want, and it's not hard, but is it really THAT important right now?
12:33 proller nore, it was 51% joke
12:33 VanessaE the type of change being a 2d tonemap - the X axis being time, the Y axis being distance from the center of the image
12:35 VanessaE (whether it would be particularly fast, or how it would compare to your idea of overlaying multiple images, I'm not sure)
12:35 kahrl about the sometimes missing debug traceback
12:35 kahrl I'm pretty sure that comes from all the lua_pcall calls that pass 0 for the last parameter
12:35 nore proller, yes I know
12:35 kahrl I asked about that some weeks ago but nobody seemed interested at the time
12:36 nore kahrl, what does the last parameter mean in lua_pcall?
12:37 kahrl http://www.lua.org/manual/​5.1/manual.html#lua_pcall
12:38 nore kahrl, does is work if the function is nil?
12:38 kahrl especially "Typically, the error handler function is used to add more debug information to the error message, such as a stack traceback. Such information cannot be gathered after the return of lua_pcall, since by then the stack has unwound."
12:38 kahrl nore, pretty sure no
12:39 nore because I had missing traceback because C++ tried to call a nil value
12:39 kahrl oh in that case
12:39 nore (in fact, I had not recompiled and the callback was not in builtin anymore)
12:39 kahrl no idea what happens then
12:47 kahrl if I understand the lua code correctly it's supposed to raise a type error
12:48 kahrl and it calls the error handler passed to lua_pcall
12:50 celeron55 VanessaE: a 2d tonemap like that won't be good; i'm more with something like nore suggested
12:51 celeron55 VanessaE: and i think it shouldn't be merged until it can do something resembling the current sun.
12:52 celeron55 people will surely find a lot of use for the functionality other than remaking what already exists
12:55 VanessaE celeron55: I don't see nore's suggestion?  (all I see is his commentary on the tree stuff)
12:56 nore VanessaE, it is two use RGB in the image to stone 3 different channels
12:56 nore and each channel is tinted
12:56 VanessaE oh yes
12:57 celeron55 10:33 UTC
12:57 VanessaE yeah I saw it, just couldn't find it again on the second scrollback
12:57 VanessaE nore's idea could work
12:59 celeron55 one alternatively really also is to assume the only purpose of the multi-tonemap is to allow visualizing brightness, and somehow do an overexposure effect for the end result to allow it with a single tonemap
12:59 celeron55 alternative*
12:59 celeron55 but it's not properly doable without a shader
13:00 celeron55 (and it's very inflexible)
13:00 celeron55 (but, almost everything falls in the category of "not properly doable with a shader")
13:00 celeron55 without*
13:01 VanessaE then the solution is obvious:  get as close as it can without shaders, and without a performance penalty
13:02 VanessaE (and add a shader later on if necessry)
13:02 VanessaE necessary*
13:05 VanessaE all I know is, aside from the visible sizes of the sun and moon relative to the space given to their corona and halo, what we have now works well enough from a texture author's standpoint.
13:07 celeron55 RBA would be a much better graphics developer if he understood these kind of artistic standpoints
13:08 pitriss RealBadAngel: I just read backlog.. and sorry, but I think your shaders and sun modifications doesn not fit of game theme..
13:08 VanessaE well I can't speak for him directly of course, but I would guess his point is "good enough" is better than "not done at all".  At that point, "good enough" is dependent on the person.
13:08 VanessaE pitriss: then don't use them.
13:09 pitriss VanessaE: of course, it will be option when not using them don't change default look..
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14:15 ShadowNinja As it is pretty simple and has already been agreed to by multiple other core devs I will merge #975 in 15 minutes, unless there are objections.
14:16 ShadowNinja nore: Minetest schematics were designed for placing trees, both by the core and Lua. See PilzTest.
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14:17 ShadowNinja They should be very fast too.
14:18 ShadowNinja nore: Better not to add a ABM on default:dirt, as there is a lot if it. Perhaps change dirt below on snow dig/place.
14:19 ShadowNinja nore: And core treegen should be removed if it is no longer used.
14:21 ShadowNinja #942 is purely a fix, can someone else check it?
14:22 nore ShadowNinja, I am ok for#975
14:23 nore ShadowNinja, core treegen is used currently
14:23 celeron55 it's not a problem for the engine to have an ABM for "dirt with air as a neighbor"
14:23 celeron55 as it's so infrequent one
14:23 nore and that ABM on default:dirt has chance = 200, so it runs without any problem
14:24 celeron55 it has always been that way and should be in the future too
14:24 nore and celeron55, it is not possible to put air as neighbor
14:24 celeron55 oh, it's not?
14:24 nore yes, because snow or other sunlight_propagate node will make grass too
14:24 ShadowNinja As for #972, "#def ~= 0" is definitely wrong. Lua just looks for the largest integer index.
14:24 celeron55 ah
14:24 celeron55 well whatever
14:24 nore but adding a sunlight_propagates group would work
14:25 celeron55 sunlight_propagates isn't a group
14:25 nore ShadowNinja, you are right for #972
14:25 ShadowNinja (Which nodedefs shouldn't contain)
14:25 celeron55 (and grass should grow in less than sunlight too)
14:25 nore yes, so I mean adding a group sunlight_propagate
14:25 celeron55 i don't think anything like that is needed, it's fine as-is
14:25 nore celeron55, grass should be able to grow below a ladder, for example
14:26 nore but anyway, since chance = 200, the ABM runs fine
14:27 nore and do you haev any thoughts on #966? (craft callback)
14:28 nore I have some code to test it: https://gist.github.com/Novatux/7179966
14:29 nore celeron55, I have an idea that would go with #960
14:29 nore it would be a function that adds another object in the sky for a player (like sun, moon)
14:31 nore ShadowNinja, did you see #966?
14:31 ShadowNinja How about #942? Previously falling nodes would stop at unknown nodes(because of collision detection), but stay in entity form because they didn't think it was a solid node.
14:32 ShadowNinja nore: I haven't tested it.
14:32 nore I'm ok for #942
14:32 nore if it works, of course
14:32 celeron55 i really have forgotten how crafting currently works even though i have made most of it
14:32 ShadowNinja nore: #966 needs squashing.
14:33 nore ShadowNinja, yes I will squash it for when it is merged
14:33 celeron55 but your scriptapi code is missing some "const"s in function parameters that are supposed to be constant references
14:33 nore ehh, what are "const"s?
14:33 nore and where should they go?
14:33 celeron55 you code C++ and don't know what is "const"? 8)
14:33 celeron55 maybe google a bit
14:34 nore const is a parameter that does not change, is it?
14:35 celeron55 yes; it's very recommended to use const for parameters that are pointers or references that aren't going to be modified by the function
14:35 nore and for the inv, for example
14:35 nore the lua callback can modify it
14:35 nore so should I const it?
14:36 celeron55 i think only the item is modified in those
14:37 nore I mean, the callback can change the content of the inventory
14:37 nore so I should put a const before the InventoryList and the InventoryLocation, am I right?
14:37 celeron55 it doesn't matter because it doesn't happen there... i guess
14:38 nore and why not before the player?
14:38 celeron55 that too
14:38 nore (the other callbacks don't have ot for the player)
14:38 celeron55 but
14:38 celeron55 it looks like the other callbacks don't have it either
14:38 celeron55 i wonder if there's some reason for this or if it's just lazyness
14:38 proller nore,  we have 3+ places with light calculations, you want to make 2 places with tree grow
14:39 nore yes... (but mapgen tree grow and sapling tree grow are not the same...)
14:39 celeron55 nore: leave the ServerActiveObject*s as not const as that seems to be the convention there
14:40 celeron55 but eg. some PointedThing&s are const so maybe the inventory and inventorylocation can be const like them
14:40 proller nore, but they produce same trees
14:40 nore celeron55, it doesn't want to compile now
14:40 celeron55 what does it say
14:41 nore ah no, I forgot the header... ;)
14:41 nore ok, it works
14:43 celeron55 but what is the point of this pull
14:43 celeron55 is there something useful that can be done with it
14:43 nore and the code still works
14:43 nore celeron55, tons of things
14:44 nore for example, tools that wear out when crafting
14:44 nore see the two examples I did
14:44 nore https://gist.github.com/Novatux/7179966
14:44 nore first one crafts steelblocks from ingots, but with only 1 stack of ingots, taking 9 each time
14:45 nore second one crafts axe+stone to get stone slabs, and the axe a bit worn out
14:45 celeron55 hmm... i guess it could also do some kind of fine-grained permission or ability things
14:45 nore that can allow player-dependent recipes
14:45 nore achievements for crafting/statistics
14:45 nore etc
14:45 celeron55 can it nullify the craft result?
14:46 celeron55 that is, disable a recipe that exists in the normal system
14:46 nore yep, and if craftpredict return ItemStack(""), there is no need to add the on_craft function
14:46 celeron55 good
14:47 nore craftpredict changes the craft prediction on client too
14:47 celeron55 i'm okay with it
14:47 nore so, I can merge it?
14:48 celeron55 that's how it goes 8) just remember to not use github's floody merge commits
14:49 nore so, I make a patch file
14:49 nore and then git am patch_file
14:49 nore is that right?
14:50 ShadowNinja Since it's local you can just run "git cherry-pick 1234567890abcdef"
14:51 ShadowNinja But for other pulls "wget <url>/123.patch -O ../patches/123.patch && git am ../patches/123.patch"
14:54 celeron55 making a shell script for that is useful
14:54 celeron55 less copypasting of numbers
14:56 ShadowNinja #972 seems good, anyone else to agree?
14:56 nore ok, checking one last time if it compiles before pushing...
14:56 nore I'm ok for it too
14:57 ShadowNinja nore: Ok for #972?
14:57 nore yes, but wait before pushing
14:58 nore ok, now you can
14:58 celeron55 it seems correct; i wonder why what it has even ended up there
14:59 celeron55 apparently i committed it as a pull request made by some unknown person
14:59 nore someone that didn't know Lua must have coded that ;)
14:59 celeron55 ...in 2012-08
15:01 celeron55 oh, not unknown person but matttpt
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15:03 nore btw, UI needs to be updated...
15:03 nore sry, wrong channel
15:06 ShadowNinja What about minetest_game/#201? I have seen numerous servers(including mine) add it manually.
15:07 ShadowNinja s/manually/locally/ would be better.
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15:10 nore what is it?
15:11 ShadowNinja nore: SamII + cape.
15:11 nore I'm ok with it too
15:11 nore ShadowNinja, and #856?
15:13 ShadowNinja nore: Seems good to me of course, but I'm not sure if everyone else agrees, better wait.
15:13 nore I agree with it (I'm already using it for my mods anyway)...
15:14 nore #968, #971 and #973 look like fixes, so perhaps merge them too
15:14 nore #965 too
15:15 ShadowNinja celeron55: /msg ChanServ template #minetest-dev dev !+oir ? See /msg ChanServ help flags/template
15:18 nore ShadowNinja, what is that?
15:18 ShadowNinja I don't know about #968 or #971. #973 has a ugly way of copying VERSION_MINOR, and I can't test #965.
15:18 nore I can't test any of those too
15:18 ShadowNinja nore: It gives devs the ability to op, invite, and unban.
15:19 nore ShadowNinja, #963 is good too
15:19 ShadowNinja +via ChanServ
15:19 nore I tested it
15:20 ShadowNinja I don't understand it. Does it keep the game background in menus like "Configure"?
15:20 nore it keeps it for create world menu, configure menu, etc
15:21 nore (to know that, I tested it, it was simpler...)
15:21 ShadowNinja Ok, that sounds good, but better ask someone else too.
15:21 nore I am ok for #202 and #203 in minetest_game too
15:22 nore and what do you think of #198 and #200?
15:22 PilzAdam #200 is a no from me
15:23 nore what would be needed for #200 to be merged?
15:23 PilzAdam since that goes against what celeron55 said about not changing minetest_game too much anymore
15:24 nore and #198?
15:24 ShadowNinja #198 looks good. #200 shouldn't just repeat the function over and over, leaving a area for a long time could cause the server to lock up when it is loaded.
15:24 nore ShadowNinja, there is a max number of times it can be repeated
15:25 nore so it doesn't lock up
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15:26 ShadowNinja Still, it should exit the loop when everything is burned, and there are other optimiztions that can be done.
15:27 nore yeah, I guess you're right
15:27 nore I may change that
15:28 nore but are you ok for #198?
15:28 ShadowNinja I guess #206 is good, unless someone says otherwise.
15:28 ShadowNinja Yes.
15:29 nore I don't have anything to say against #206
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15:37 nore anyone else agreeing on #963?
15:40 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: ^
15:41 zat ^.^ <3
15:42 PilzAdam nore, works for me
15:43 nore are you ok for it?
15:43 nore if so, I will merge it
15:43 PilzAdam if it doesnt break anything else
15:45 nore PilzAdam, it doesn't
15:45 nore if it worked before, it should still work now
15:49 PilzAdam what about https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest_game/com​mit/d5c1105d8fa8ef362707bfd538d29673db215da8 ?
15:50 nore I'm ok for it too
15:51 ShadowNinja Sounds good.
15:54 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, do you want your e-mail be listed in minetest.net/contributors?
15:57 thexyz what's this stupidity, for some reason I don't have a button to "publicize membership" for sapier and ShadowNinja
15:58 ShadowNinja thexyz: You can have secret menberships I beleive, good for private repos I guess, or something like that.
15:58 thexyz nore is Novatux, right?
15:58 nore yes
15:59 thexyz okay
15:59 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Sure, but I would like to have a @minetest.net one there(If possible). I beleive they are just forwards, right?
15:59 PilzAdam ask thexyz about that
15:59 ShadowNinja Sapier has another reason to register now. ;-)
16:00 thexyz yeah pm me the address you want
16:02 ShadowNinja thexyz: Maybe you can /msg ChanServ template #minetest-dev dev !+ovir ?
16:02 thexyz maybe
16:03 thexyz can you explain what do those mean?
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16:04 Exio4 it will update the "dev" template, adding +o, +v, +i and +r to all of the users with that group
16:04 Exio4 + = access to op command, +v to "voice", +i, to invite, and +r to unban/quiet
16:05 Exio4 s/^../+o/
16:05 celeron55 wait, what
16:05 celeron55 thexyz: i can't either
16:05 celeron55 have they enabled some setting in github to not allow public memberships or something
16:05 thexyz dunno
16:05 celeron55 we definitely don't want that
16:06 thexyz > The user can publicize their own membership. (A user cannot publicize the membership for another user.)
16:06 thexyz from http://developer.github.com/v3/orgs/m​embers/#publicize-a-users-membership
16:07 ShadowNinja My membership is public now.
16:07 celeron55 okay, i wonder if that has changed because i have never stumbled upon this before
16:07 celeron55 it probably has
16:13 ShadowNinja Well, after receiving a email in russian, I think forwarding is set up, and I added the email to the contributor page.
16:15 ShadowNinja thexyz: I beleive there is a developer group on the forum. Could you add me to it? My username is "Shadow" (ShadowNinja was taken).
16:15 nore Ah, and me too please...
16:17 ShadowNinja thexyz: And "Your signature is not displayed ... not spent enough time at the forum." Can the limit be lowered? I remember it being lower.
16:18 ShadowNinja And I don't like how some users flood the forum with messages and get privileges like ^ even though they haven't contributed sygnificantly to any discussions.
16:18 nore thexyz, can I be in the "Developper" group too please?
16:20 thexyz yeah, sorry, I forgot about forums, done now
16:22 ShadowNinja It isn't showing for me, is there a delay? I tried ignoring the cache, so it isn't that...
16:23 thexyz what isn't showing for you?
16:24 ShadowNinja The "Developer" line.
16:24 thexyz https://forum.minetest.net/userlist.php?u​sername=&amp;show_group=5&amp;sort_by=use​rname&amp;sort_dir=ASC&amp;search=Search
16:25 ShadowNinja thexyz: "Shadow", not "ShadowNinja". (Someone else took that a while ago)
16:25 thexyz oh right, can't read, sorry
16:26 thexyz okay, done now
16:26 ShadowNinja thexyz: Could you swap those usernames or something like that?
16:27 ShadowNinja thexyz: The developer group allows me to post in "News", does it give any other abilities?
16:27 thexyz hm.. dunno what should our policy regarding that issue be, celeron55?
16:29 ShadowNinja He only posted a few times a long time ago, and the username is pretty close.
16:29 thexyz ShadowNinja: http://i.imgur.com/Qw3aa4P.png
16:29 thexyz you can change your title!
16:31 ShadowNinja Title == username I guess. But I probably can't change it to the same as another user...
16:32 ShadowNinja One of us needs to take a temp username.
16:32 thexyz no, title == that thing below your username (it's set to "Developer" now)
16:32 ShadowNinja Oh, hmmm, that's interesting. But I think I will leave it.
16:34 thexyz yeah, I'm not sure what to do about usernames, ask celeron55
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16:47 proller nore, can you make logic for lua dirt like here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/882/​files#diff-2e849c6a20ae0b361d0acb000da3ae02R63  ?
16:50 proller if weather enabled - remove grass if too cold, add snow if very cold, remove snow if too hot, remove grass if too hot
16:56 nore proller, how do you get block heat from Lua?
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16:58 proller if minetest.setting_getbool("weather") then ......  if minetest.get_heat(p0) < 500 then .....
16:59 proller here is burning on hot and flower grow stop - https://github.com/proller/m​inetest_game/compare/weather
17:00 nore proller, I will change that if your pull is merged too...
17:00 nore if mine is merged before, you will have to change yours
17:02 proller get_heat now available but sometimes return garbage
17:02 ShadowNinja thexyz: (Seems to have been forgotten) /msg ChanServ template #minetest-dev dev !+ovir ?
17:03 thexyz ask celeron, there was a discussion about giving ops to developers a while ago and he seems to be against it; and why should devs have op anyway?
17:05 celeron55 i see no benefit from that; devving and moderating are completely different things
17:06 ShadowNinja So that they can moderate the channel. If you only have a few ops then someone can, eg, flood the channel for a few hours.
17:06 celeron55 maybe it could be said that this channel should be ruled by developers but... it's not like there's even anything to moderate here ever
17:07 celeron55 oh whatever, i guess that could be done if people insist... but giving power to people who insist having power is rarely a good idea
17:10 celeron55 i can promise to give ops to developers at the instant when someone starts flooding this channel repeatedly
17:10 ShadowNinja Fair enough. Does #974 look ok?
17:13 rubenwardy 81 pull request :O
17:13 rubenwardy *s
17:13 ShadowNinja rubenwardy: It was 85 earlier today.
17:13 rubenwardy lol
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17:14 nore ShadowNinja, it looks ok
17:14 ShadowNinja Anyone else to agree with #965?
17:15 nore ShadowNinja, I can't say what #965 does
17:15 nore so I can't agree with it, and I can't test it either
17:16 nore is there anyone to agree on #976?
17:17 ShadowNinja nore: Use MTSMs instead. PilzTest has one.
17:17 nore what is MTSMs?
17:17 rubenwardy Dissecting the Minetest source code is fun(!)
17:17 nore schematics?
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17:18 nore ShadowNinja, schematics do not make good trees
17:19 nore and that code is fast enough now... (the one I am wondering if it is fast enough is the grass removing code)
17:20 PilzAdam schematics should be used for trees
17:21 rubenwardy If send_formspec packets are handled here: https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/client.cpp#L1977
17:21 rubenwardy where are they taken from m_client_event_queue
17:22 rubenwardy found it, i think: https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/master/src/game.cpp#L2253
17:24 rubenwardy Wow, I talk and it goes silent. Am I realy that noob?
17:24 rubenwardy *really
17:25 Exio4 rubenwardy: yes, because we all hate you
17:25 rubenwardy 8)
17:25 celeron55 obviously!
17:35 ShadowNinja Does #957 look good?
17:37 nore ShadowNinja, I trying to use the ABM profiler to test #976
17:37 nore however, git does not want to apply the patch: corrupted patch at line 86
17:37 nore what does that mean?
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17:38 ShadowNinja nore: It probably needs to be rebased.
17:40 rubenwardy Are there any logical situations where the formspec string would be "", except for minetest.send_formspec("player","","")?
17:44 nore ShadowNinja, are there commands merge a patch file?
17:45 ShadowNinja nore: "git am" loads a patch file. Not sure what it does about conflicts.
17:50 celeron55 it doesn't handle conflicts well by default
17:52 celeron55 i used this to deal with it succesfully once: http://www.pizzhacks.com/bugdrome/​2011/10/deal-with-git-am-failures/
17:53 celeron55 (it's much more robust by adding a remote and doing it that way instead of git am)
18:10 ShadowNinja Should I add sapier's email to the mainmenu? It wasn't there before, but he uses it in his commits.
18:10 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/5dce44ec5e5f7231dba3cdbec3​f1fdc683ce5a34/src/game.cpp#L2253
18:10 rubenwardy If current_formspec = 0, does that mean that their is no formspec open?
18:11 rubenwardy and where is the current_formspec / current_textdest change intercepted?
18:11 celeron55 why is my e-mail in the menu? i think i wanted it not to be there
18:12 ShadowNinja I will remove it if you like.
18:14 celeron55 whatever, just leave it
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18:28 rubenwardy Hello?
18:31 rubenwardy Can someone help me with that :P At least point me in the right direction
18:32 celeron55 what are you trying to find?
18:33 rubenwardy The bit where the send_formspec is intercepted, so I can cancel it if string == ""
18:34 rubenwardy I have seen the packet recieve in client.cpp, and the event handle from list in game.cpp
18:34 celeron55 uh, so server side?
18:34 rubenwardy client side
18:34 rubenwardy I want minetest.send_formspec("player","","") to close open formspec
18:35 rubenwardy Basically what happens after here: https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/5dce44ec5e5f7231dba3cdbec3​f1fdc683ce5a34/src/game.cpp#L2274
18:36 rubenwardy Just noticed m_form_src
18:37 rubenwardy found it
18:39 rubenwardy lol
18:40 rubenwardy SegFault when I try to close the formspec :P
18:41 celeron55 how and where do you close it
18:43 ShadowNinja Does #197 look good?
18:43 rubenwardy here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl​ob/master/src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L1760
18:43 rubenwardy with: quitMenu()
18:43 rubenwardy I suppose it is because it is not deleted from what ever list you use to store it, so when it tries to update bad things happen
18:43 celeron55 you did add return; after it?
18:43 rubenwardy yeah
18:44 rubenwardy if (newform.compare("")==0){quitMenu();
18:44 rubenwardy return;}
18:45 ShadowNinja Or if (newform == "")...
18:45 celeron55 can't really help; this menu stiff is kind of convoluted
18:47 rubenwardy Thats not the problem, shadowninja, if I remove the quitMenu, there is no crash.
18:48 rubenwardy How ever, the form is invisible, and the mouse is captured
18:48 ShadowNinja Yes, not the problem, but a better way to code it.
18:49 rubenwardy Does one instance of guiFormspecMenu handle all formspecs?
18:49 celeron55 yes, but that instance is deleted when there is nothing to show
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20:24 nore Ok, I tested the ABM speed:
20:24 nore dirt and dirt_with_grass growth: always below 1/4ms
20:25 nore every 2 seconds
20:25 nore and for each sapling that grows: C++: 130ms, Lua: 150ms
20:25 nore so I reckon ABM speed is not a real problem even in Lua
20:26 nore celeron55, ^
20:26 sapier wait 130 --> 150? per sapling?
20:26 ShadowNinja sapier: Do you find that surprising?
20:27 sapier thats 15% ? I'd not call this "no problem"
20:27 nore sapier, yes
20:27 ShadowNinja The VM is quite fast, and LuaJIT is comparable to C++ iin terms of speed.
20:27 sapier are your mesurements done with lua or luajit?
20:27 nore 15%, knowing that under normal conditions, a sapling takes 500s to grow
20:27 ShadowNinja That sounds good to me.
20:28 sapier I'd consider 130ms a problem not talking about 150ms
20:28 ShadowNinja sapier: You have been made a core dev, you will have to register with NickServ if you want +V.
20:28 nore it is with LuaJIT enabled, I guess (since it is installed on my system)
20:29 sapier so if 10 saplings grow same time you add 1.5 lag am I correct?
20:29 ShadowNinja sapier: Are you OK with me adding your email(from our commits) to the main menu?
20:29 ShadowNinja +y
20:29 sapier no plz don't add it I removed it on purpose
20:30 ShadowNinja Ok.
20:30 sapier I don't even know what +V is ... do I need it?
20:31 ShadowNinja sapier: Auto-voice.
20:31 sapier plz give me more information I still have no clue ;-)
20:32 sapier wait did you say core dev? ... so I can't issue unfinished pull requests any longer? ;-)
20:32 ShadowNinja sapier: See how all the other core devs are voiced? (A + in front of the nick usualy)
20:33 sapier talking about unfinished ... https://github.com/sapier/minet​est/tree/asynchronous_events_2 fixes the "hang" issue with modstore
20:34 sapier it's a quite more generic solution than thexyz's one
20:34 nore sapier, about your 1.5s lag, before it was 1.3s lag
20:34 nore so it is quite the same
20:34 thexyz sapier: what's my solution?
20:35 thexyz sapier: also, please register your nickname
20:35 sapier yes ... but I'd prefere 1.3 being reduced instead of increased ;-)
20:35 thexyz (when you have time)
20:35 thexyz I don't remember anything like that, but whatever
20:35 sapier ok ok as everyone demands ... where do I register?
20:35 sapier did I mix you with kahrl again? :)
20:35 thexyz http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
20:36 thexyz dunno, those days I don't do anything
20:36 nore and if you have 100 saplings, the probability that at least 10 of them grow at once is 0.0000344168, so...
20:36 sapier I was talking about the httpfetch patches
20:36 nore if that happens, you're really unlucky
20:36 sapier ok ok :-) I guess it'll be fine at that chances ... still in general 15% performance reduction IS an issue ;-)
20:37 proller sapier, animal_* broken again
20:38 nore sapier, the performance is even worse for dirt... but since it is 250µs instead of 50µs every 2 seconds, nobody minds
20:38 nore (I mean, the performance change)
20:39 sapier what happens this time proller?
20:39 proller i commented to pull
20:39 proller ops, issue
20:40 nore so, sapier, do you think performance increase is really an issue?
20:40 sapier performance is always an issue ;-)
20:40 ShadowNinja s/increase/decrease/
20:40 nore btw, for saplings, remember that they take 500s average to grow
20:40 ShadowNinja That seems like good performance.
20:41 proller duplicated tree code is issue
20:41 nore to 20ms difference = 4*10^-5 % slower than before
20:43 nore no, sorry, 4*10^-3 % slower
20:43 ShadowNinja sapier: What does #962 fix?
20:43 nore and for dirt, 0.1% slower
20:43 sapier fixes broken textures on windows
20:44 sapier in main menu
20:46 PilzAdam nore, can you test the speed when using schematics?
20:47 PilzAdam using schematics would also fix what proller mentioned: the duplicated tree code
20:47 ShadowNinja sapier: Do you mean the tiling splash?
20:48 PilzAdam we would just remove the tree flag and place the schematics with the decoration API
20:48 ShadowNinja I gues #937 can be closed.
20:50 sapier yes shadow
20:51 ShadowNinja Alright, looks good, you can merge it.
20:53 sapier proller can you try new version
20:56 hmmmm noo
20:56 hmmmm the decorations aren't good enough to replace trees
20:56 hmmmm don't do that yet
20:57 hmmmm see the thing is, trees created by decorations aren't of variable height so they're really not as good
20:57 hmmmm i wasn't able to figure out a good way on how to do that, and I sorta forgot about it when I started working on other things
20:57 celeron55 it's easy to make them plenty variable enough for nobody to notice
20:57 PilzAdam anything else that needs to be improved?
20:58 celeron55 the L-system trees of moretrees are like clones of each other too
20:58 hmmmm yeah
20:58 celeron55 at least some of them
20:58 hmmmm one of these days I'm sure someone will fix them......
20:58 hmmmm one of these days..............................
20:58 celeron55 8D
20:58 hmmmm lol
20:58 hmmmm I never thought working full time would cramp my style this much
20:59 sapier :-) I could've told you hmmmm if you'd have asked
20:59 hmmmm alright, that's it
20:59 hmmmm I am going to finally finish the lua menu thing
20:59 celeron55 i recommend a 4-day workweek
20:59 sapier hmmmm could you have a look at that branch I just mentioned first
21:00 hmmmm oh boy async jobs
21:01 sapier forget about it the conflicting work was kahrls ;-)
21:01 sapier but you could have a look at those things too if you have time
21:01 hmmmm are you using spaces instead of tabs?
21:01 hmmmm do you have a death wish or something??
21:02 sapier I don't think so what file are you talking about?
21:02 celeron55 what kind of an environment od the threads have?
21:02 celeron55 do*
21:02 hmmmm oh that's just github
21:02 sapier each asynchronous thread has it's own lua stack
21:03 celeron55 what functions can they call?
21:03 sapier any function not required to access the gui (by now it's main menu only)
21:03 sapier e.g. settings favourites file download
21:03 sapier things like that
21:04 sapier but I made settings read only by now ... didn't have time to check if it's locked correctly
21:04 hmmmm is there a queue or something to carry out thread unsafe lua functions?
21:04 sapier there aren't unsafe functions as all of them are in their own environment
21:04 hmmmm oh that's sorta lame
21:05 celeron55 what filters the unsafe functions to not be visible?
21:05 celeron55 or is there a completely new redundant API for those jobs?
21:05 sapier no it isn't
21:05 sapier there are initilizer functions for all major components
21:06 celeron55 maybe you could simply write a description about how this thing works so that nobody would need to poke more and more answers from you
21:06 sapier only those initializers need to be modified to not add the "unsafe" functions
21:06 sapier ok I'm gonna write it down give me an hour ;-)
21:07 celeron55 good
21:13 ShadowNinja I have rebased #751 and it works nicely. Any comments on it?
21:14 ShadowNinja And I need someone else to agree with #197 before I push (squashed).
21:14 ShadowNinja minetest_game/#197 that is.
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21:30 ShadowNinja minetest/#583 too.
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21:45 sapier https://github.com/sapier/minetes​t/wiki/Minetest-Asynchronous-Lua I guess this won't answer all questions so I'll add my answers to it
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