Time Nick Message 06:31 celeron55 hmm 06:32 celeron55 i will merge 925 on the basis that it's really just an amendment to ShadowNinja's original addition 06:34 celeron55 also nobody complained about the object duplication fix so i will use my DICTATOR POWERS to merge it 06:54 celeron55 (offtopic) oh, it's snowing outside 8) 08:24 celeron55 my take on what Minetest is and what it does to be exactly that: http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491 10:41 proller celeron55, most peoples playing in standard minetest_game 10:42 proller most peoples want just good minecraft-like game, not space shooter 10:43 proller and throwing bugfixes because they broke your nonexistent death star physics is strange 10:58 celeron55 i don't serve "most people", i serve people who share interest in a kind of thing that nobody else is doing 10:59 celeron55 if you do things based on what "most people want", you aren't getting anywhere and will bore yourself to death 13:26 troller celeron55, you make game for playing/players or for making game ? 13:41 pitriss troller: sorry but I agree with celeron, engine shouldn'ŧ limit creativity of game devs. 13:42 Exio4 you're making mainly the engine, the game is a nice side effect 13:42 Exio4 my POV ^ 14:04 celeron55 troller: you can take your side if you want; either be making the engine or be building stuff on it; i recommend both, including understanding that they're different 14:15 zat Haven’t you thought on changing the name of the game? My GF agrees that the “test” part makes it sound like something incomplete that much people would not even bother downloading. 14:15 zat ...actually, a couple of friends opined exactly the same. 14:17 Exio4 there were some discussions about that 14:24 troller minetestcomplete 14:27 zat what a good nickname eh 14:31 VanessaE zat, we've been down that road before. 14:31 VanessaE it did not turn out well. 14:32 zat I have a better idea 14:32 zat call it Minedone 14:41 VanessaE heh 14:42 VanessaE here's where the subject went last time: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5800 14:43 NakedFury minestrone 14:43 VanessaE heh 14:44 VanessaE you trying to suggest minetest has too much spaghetti code? ;) 14:44 NakedFury and tomato 14:44 NakedFury who will expect this game to be named after a thick tomato soup 14:44 NakedFury a yummy delicious soup 14:46 NakedFury I would love one now 14:46 zat lets call it blockers, just a game about blocks. 14:46 zat lol 14:49 Exio4 "Mesetint" 14:49 NakedFury Nodesoup 14:49 zat Meseblocks lol 14:52 zat Nodejs 14:53 Exio4 lamefun would be proud of you 14:56 zat whos her 14:57 VanessaE anyhow, the name thing is a dead issue. 14:59 zat who decided that 15:03 VanessaE it just sorta fell out like that 15:19 VanessaE [10-17 11:19] I wish there was an option to disallow Guest names 15:20 VanessaE please? 15:20 VanessaE most server owners hate these 15:31 NakedFury guest names? 15:32 VanessaE * Guest1735 has joined the game 15:32 VanessaE no. 15:32 VanessaE get rid of that shit 15:33 NakedFury ohh perhaps allow server admins to have a list of blacklisted names or words not allowed in names 15:33 NakedFury server needs more admin tools 15:33 proller need to make name dialog, and show it if name empty, and remove guest name gen after 15:37 Jordach just ask peacock - i just happen to have a pastebin to automatically ban those users 15:38 Jordach http://pastebin.com/2nvTvrLq 15:38 VanessaE why ban them? 15:38 VanessaE just give a message, "Sorry, you must choose a name." 15:38 VanessaE make no references to "Guestxxx" 15:38 VanessaE otherwise it will seem like guests (as in the noun, not the userid) are not welcome 15:38 Jordach if NICKBANS[player] or string.match(player,"%d%d(%d+)") then -- or string.match(player,"Guest%d%d%d%d") 15:39 Jordach see the comment 15:39 kaeza ideally, the server should deny connection as soon as possible, just like before the commit that added these "guest users" 15:39 VanessaE yes 15:39 VanessaE agreed. 16:05 celeron55 i'm okay with removing the automatically generated names 16:05 celeron55 it's not like anyone has said anything good about them ever anyway 16:07 proller but need force users to fill name field 16:07 VanessaE it's horrible and makes, as you would say, kittens cry. 16:07 VanessaE every time someone signs on with a Guestxxxx name, somewhere a dog gets skunked :P 16:08 celeron55 yes, we need to save these kittens 16:12 VanessaE what, no love for those poor, stinky dogs? ;) 16:17 celeron55 i'm wondering if the blog post actually makes anything clearer 16:17 celeron55 probably some, but is it enough at all 16:19 VanessaE it does to some extent 16:19 VanessaE at the very least, it outlines the problems. 16:27 NakedFury maybe instead of Guest##### include an open source random name generator 16:29 VanessaE hell no 16:29 VanessaE that's 1000x worse 16:30 * Jordach agrees 16:32 proller just dont allow to start connecting without filling name 16:32 celeron55 that's the KISS solution and will work 16:48 proller today merge topic: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/952 8) 16:49 VanessaE question: darkrose's crafting table that adds 4x4 and 5x5 crafting grids. Can we get that added to minetest_game some time soon? Provided it still works, I mean. 16:49 VanessaE no one uses big recipes like it provides because it's not an core part of the game 16:50 VanessaE 3x3 recipes are starting to get harder and harder to make. I think we need to consider allowing larger ones "by default" 17:00 celeron55 i want to break this current organization of core devs having the final say on a single main game 17:01 celeron55 it simply doesn't work 17:03 Sokomine celeron55: regarding your latest patch: we try your object duplication bug fix on vanessas server, but it will take more time to find out if it really helps. item duplications do not become obvious immediately 17:04 VanessaE Sokomine: actually I think it worked. 17:04 celeron55 nobody with their own fork of minetest_game or a completely self-built game hasn't said that they'd like to be in a directly competing position or anything like that... or has someone? 17:04 VanessaE there are only 63 objects around the spawn now, which is roughly what there should be. 17:05 VanessaE celeron55: personally, I'm fine with there being just one "main" game, seeing as it's become something of a platform to base other stuff on 17:05 VanessaE my game is 32MB-odd, but started with minetest_game 17:05 VanessaE (inb4 it's still as directionless as it ever was. it's improving slowly) 17:08 celeron55 how did the object count behave previously? like, how many would there be now after the reset if the bug wasn't fixed? 17:08 VanessaE it used to rise into the mid hundreds after some hours 17:08 VanessaE perhaps a day or so max 17:09 NakedFury another thing that makes recipes harder is that currently they are all done in the same grid. we have no specialized grids for types of crafting 17:09 VanessaE after the reset + bug fix + all normal entities being re-created, 60-odd around the spawn is about right. 17:09 VanessaE (mostly from signs) 17:11 kaeza celeron55, AFAIK, mitori's "Dwarves" was once the wannabe competitor of mt_game; dunno if it's widely used or is still developed 17:11 VanessaE there's always Overcraft Origins, or MiniTest if someone wants a MC-like game on top of the Minetest engine. 17:14 kaeza there's also PilzTest if you are sadomasochist :P 17:14 celeron55 so if this is still unclear to someone: i want at least one unique and large game to emerge, preferably with some kind of dictator leadership, ambitious goals and none of this "game design by committee" 17:15 celeron55 dwarves could be fine, but the developer of that or whatever should either come state their mission here or privately to me or somehow otherwise set up the relationship of the projects 17:17 VanessaE celeron55: feel free to put vanessae_game in if you want :) 17:17 VanessaE I keep it actively updated. 17:17 celeron55 preferably it should have some catch for single-player playing and maybe a different catch for server usage 17:19 celeron55 VanessaE: give me a marketing speech of it as if i was a random bored person on the internet 17:19 VanessaE I don't do marketing 17:20 VanessaE :P 17:20 VanessaE use it if you want, or not. :) 17:20 celeron55 lol, should have guessed the response 17:20 VanessaE translation: I suck at marketing and have the almost-failed business to prove it :) 17:21 celeron55 marketing is an unremovable part of making something that has a point, though 17:22 VanessaE yep I know 17:22 PilzAdam celeron55, pilztest could be what you want; the ideas are 1) only voxel nodes and 2) challenging survival gameplay 17:23 PilzAdam 1) leads it to be rather simple, while still being somewhat creative 17:23 Sokomine i wouldn't call all these versions diffrent "games" - if it where so, nearly everyone would run a diffrent game. yet the mod collection each server uses does give it some profile and makes servers feel diffrent 17:23 PilzAdam 2) is currently achieved by a non-mc like hunger system, and experimental mobs (basically a stripped down simple mobs version) 17:24 celeron55 PilzAdam: you're a good core developer though, how is work on pilztest afforded if there's stuff to do in the engine too? 17:24 PilzAdam I currently lack new ideas how to improve 2), though 17:24 celeron55 Sokomine: well they kind of do 17:25 celeron55 Sokomine: it's a sloppy concept but we need some words in order to talk about things 17:25 PilzAdam hmm... the last few months I had a lot of freetime so I was able to just do what I want 17:26 VanessaE celeron55: seriously though, the general aim of my game is to give people as much as they can possibly want, to build with. Literally, I'm trying to reach for a truly unlimited craft-and-build game. 17:26 VanessaE unlimited in terms of what the players can build. 17:27 VanessaE imho, with the default game there are only just so many cobble, brick, or sandstone houses you can build before it gets repetitive. 17:27 celeron55 VanessaE: that's much better than your previous try 8) 17:27 VanessaE I figure people want *details* 17:27 VanessaE so that's what I try for 17:27 PilzAdam VanessaE, your game basically sounds like the exact opposite to pilztest 17:28 celeron55 PilzAdam: how much have you done or planning to do to make mob encounters interesting and fun? 17:28 VanessaE so far the only negative is that it exposes that fps issue, plus it has so many nodes that it needs that tweak to mapnode.h 17:28 VanessaE PilzAdam: well yeah I suppose you could say that 17:29 PilzAdam celeron55, I was inspired by the mobs in Minecraft alpha, though since we dont have that push back effect when you punch something its a bit different 17:30 PilzAdam mobs currently only spawn in caves, and to kill them you try to get them stuck in a corner 17:31 Jordach i have had ideas for minetest before: http://sfan5.dyndns.org/upload/userdata/3/Gamemode.svg 17:32 PilzAdam the mobs also have 100 HP, so the punch_interval system we currently have gets really interesting 17:32 PilzAdam you can either punch slow, and cause more damage per punch, or punch fast and only cause a bit of damage 17:33 PilzAdam also its not easy to change the weapon or eat food in the battle, since you only have a 5 slot hotbar and a backpack 17:33 VanessaE Jordach: I kinda wanted to gear my game toward that idea, actually, but didn't figure a good way to do it. enter, Realtest 17:34 Jordach VanessaE, i was taking ideas from many JRPGs as well as cyberpunk 17:34 celeron55 okay so... 17:34 celeron55 i'm going to say that both of your games have bad names 17:34 celeron55 8D 17:34 Jordach lol 17:34 PilzAdam true, I suck at naming stuff 17:35 VanessaE mine has no name at all yet :) 17:35 Jordach Nessie Game? 17:35 VanessaE detail_test :D 17:35 VanessaE idk, I never thought to give it a real name 17:35 Exio4 vanessatest 17:35 Jordach VanessaE, modern_life 17:35 Jordach or industrial_life 17:36 celeron55 well i request you to make it a name, in case it would be included as one game in a minetest release 17:41 VanessaE thinking about it now. 17:43 Sokomine vanessa: how about "full_game"? it has almost all mods you can think of 17:43 celeron55 nope 17:43 VanessaE naw 17:43 Jordach we need to stop appending _test to everythingh 17:43 Jordach -h 17:43 Sokomine general problem with releasing this type of "game" is that they're usually a mod collection. most mods are hosted on github. how best to supply a download link to players where they can get the latest packages from git? 17:43 * VanessaE looks at the pizza box on her desk in hopes of finding inspiration :P 17:44 Jordach VanessaE, industrial_life or modern_life 17:44 * Sokomine takes the pizza out and eats it 17:44 PilzAdam celeron55, you are good at naming stuff, suggest something :-) 17:44 VanessaE industrial, no. modern is at least the right adjective, if not the right nma,e 17:44 VanessaE name* 17:44 Sokomine there are mod-collections that may be more industrial_life-centered - just take technic and streets (which are part of vanessas game as well) 17:44 Jordach ...soilnar... 17:45 Jordach 8) 17:45 celeron55 i've played so little of vanessae's thing and pilztest that i don't really know; but it's probably a good idea to take some cool good but a bit uncommon words like "cityscape" and slap that on the game 17:45 VanessaE cityscape is close actually. 17:45 Sokomine how about "minetest unlimited"? 17:45 Jordach stop with the minetest* related shit 17:45 VanessaE something implying Metropolis 17:46 VanessaE (but not the city in Superman) 17:46 Jordach MetroMines 17:46 VanessaE Blockopolis_game 17:46 celeron55 Sokomine: VanessaE's game is about physical content, not about other kinds of content that minetest can potentially do 17:46 VanessaE :) 17:46 celeron55 i mean, like... ehm 17:47 celeron55 i guess i don't know how to explain 17:47 VanessaE actually you explained it pretty well 17:47 Jordach again with the _game 17:47 VanessaE though it goes a bit beyond that 17:47 Jordach it's pretty fucking damn obvious that it's a game: it appears in the GAME TAB 17:47 VanessaE Jordach: well, _game is just a suffix, not really part of the name. 17:47 celeron55 well obviously things aren't just black and white 17:47 Jordach s/TAB/selector 17:47 celeron55 but then on the other hand pilztest tries to do as much as it can with as little content as it can 17:48 VanessaE celeron55: I want players to be able to actually dig for materials, all kinds of them, and actually use all of those materials in some way to build a huge world. 17:48 VanessaE hm. 17:50 Jordach VanessaE, NodeCity :P 17:50 VanessaE um 17:54 celeron55 pilztest could be called something sillily brutal like "eat X and die" or "punch X and die" where X is a reference to something in the game 17:55 rubenwardy This all reminds me that I need to work on Capture the Flag :P 17:56 rubenwardy You know what the obvious choice for a game in minetest upstream is? 17:56 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6791 ! 17:57 rubenwardy !title 17:57 kaeza ... 17:57 rubenwardy ( [Idea][Game]MT2MC - MineTest 2 MineCraft by Ragnar ) 17:58 rubenwardy [/jokes] 18:05 celeron55 is there something that somebody thinks needs special attention now if i am going to make a multi-independent-game release happen? 18:07 VanessaE I can't think of anything. 18:07 VanessaE let's just not repeat that common/build/survival fiasco ;) 18:07 Sokomine hmm. in a way...for diffrent versions of the game - connect to diffrent servers? 18:08 Sokomine ...and slowly build up your own collection of mods according to your taste for singleplayer. for players that are not intrested in modding/development, it may be diffrent 18:08 celeron55 Sokomine: i don't understand 18:09 celeron55 VanessaE: as i see it, the fiasco was mostly caused by the extreme artificialness of the split, which doesn't work here 18:09 VanessaE yeah 18:12 Sokomine celeron: i learned about quite a lot of mods due to servers using them. even though i regulary read the forum 18:12 Sokomine celeron: in a way, servers are for me slightly diffrent versions of the game. each has its own collection. even outdated versions sometimes 18:13 celeron55 yes; it's the "minetest 0.4 way", as i call it 18:13 celeron55 is there a problem? 18:14 celeron55 or was that just random thoughts 18:15 Sokomine celeron: there are variations in gameplay, but not that strong. if you're intrested...after a mining tour on vanessas server, my bags (not part of the standard game but common) will be filled to the last slot with cobble, while my inv contains lots of diffrent ores. on the linuxgaming server, that has bones+stacks of cobble up to 300 + less ores, it's inverse: cobble in the inventory, bags mostly empty, ores in bags, one bag ful 18:16 Sokomine then there's technic...though the inpact of that mod is mostly on economic. if you have technic installed, copper is a precious ore 18:16 Sokomine in a way just random thoughts and thinking about how usefull diffrent games will be 18:17 VanessaE ^^^ that's if you can play on my server at all :P 18:17 celeron55 oh, so you're kind of worried about future server diversity? 18:17 Sokomine not really. i just try to say that the diversity can be found mostly on servers, while singleplayer will perhaps not profit that much from mod collections 18:19 celeron55 i think there are (and will be) so many different ways to do things and server owners have all the incentives to differentiate from others that they won't stick with what comes with the game 18:22 celeron55 distributing something more with the game mostly serves as a showcase for those who might be coming in from more traditionally developed games, and those who want to enjoy the results of development without being involved in it at all 18:25 celeron55 and also serves those who like to play singleplayer 18:25 celeron55 or on small self-hosted servers 18:26 celeron55 if everyone has to build up from something as bare as minetest_game, they aren't going to get the most out of minetest 18:28 Sokomine that's true. the game gets far more intresting if the right mods are added 18:31 celeron55 i'm kind of terrified of what linux package maintainers are going to do, but that's really their problem... 18:32 sfan5 split minetest into engine and the games (seperated) 18:32 celeron55 yeah, they'll probably do that, and then users are like "wtf is this shit" 18:33 celeron55 well, can't do much about that anyway 18:33 NakedFury it should be like that 18:33 NakedFury you dont package the quake clones of linux alone without the game modes 18:33 celeron55 it won't be a problem in the long run, really 18:33 celeron55 people probably get used to things 18:34 VanessaE seems simple to me, minetest (==minetest_game) depends on minetest-common (==minetest engine core) 18:34 VanessaE sorta like how 0.3.x was packaged 18:35 NakedFury seems complicated on purpose 18:35 celeron55 hmm... we should make a recommendation of packaging the engine as "minetest-engine" and not "minetest" 18:35 sfan5 wasn't 0.3.x packaged as everything-in-one? 18:35 NakedFury last time I bought or downloaded a game it didnt come only with the engine 18:38 celeron55 we can hope that it develops to something like that the players will think that they want "pilztest", and by pulling that from the package manager they get the engine too 18:38 VanessaE ok minetest and minetest-engine then 18:38 VanessaE works for me,. 18:39 celeron55 also, we should get rid of minetest_game but i don't know how... probably by just not touching it and making it irrelevant 18:41 Jordach minetest_game should be kept for legacy purposes: many worlds depend on it 18:41 Jordach just make sure it works with each iteration of the engine 18:42 Sokomine minetest_game is currently the common ground upon which they're all based 18:43 PilzAdam pilztest isnt based on minetest_game 18:45 celeron55 Sokomine: yes, it's a real danger that mods would unnecessarily become incompatible with different games 18:46 celeron55 i'm not sure how to prevent that 18:48 Sokomine almost all mods depend on default for basic materials. changes to default seem to be very important for most players 18:48 celeron55 ...it might not be as large a problem as it would initially seem 18:49 celeron55 i guess we don't have other options than to base most games that intend to be moddable on "default" 18:49 celeron55 but it means the addition of things to "default" will stop right now 18:50 celeron55 it's completely counterproductive to bloat it up so much that no game will want to include it 18:51 celeron55 arguably it already is too large; but as i said, there are no other options 18:53 celeron55 at some point a new generation of some kind of "newbase" mods could emerge, but it's not a thing we can care about now 18:54 celeron55 also, i think that games will naturally use default because they want to be moddable with existing mods, so it *probably* is a self-sustaining system 18:56 VanessaE ok, unrelated - we have a problem with sign-ons 18:56 VanessaE I've got users signing on but not being able to sign off 18:56 VanessaE even banning doesn't get rid of the bogus account 18:58 celeron55 since when? 18:59 VanessaE seems like this started this morning. 18:59 VanessaE I'e got a user here who I just "killed" - but she's been offline for at least a few minutes now. 18:59 celeron55 i'd like to see some log 18:59 VanessaE the server even changed her model to the "lying down" one on death 19:00 VanessaE (which reminds me, the selection box for "lying down" needs fixed) 19:00 VanessaE ok, log data.. any idea what to filter for? 19:00 celeron55 it seems to me that this is probably some weird interaction of the duplication patch 19:01 celeron55 i thought it wouldn't interfere with anything like that but maybe it does (maybe something related to players doesn't behave like i expected) 19:01 VanessaE shall I back that change out locally and see if it helps? 19:02 celeron55 well, grep for "ServerEnvironment::" and also get something related to player joins/leaves/disconnects to show up 19:07 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/uJbVVG39 19:07 VanessaE there's an excerpt. There are fucktons of those add and deactivate messages 19:08 VanessaE meanwhile, the "player" is still showing, at least to my client. 19:08 VanessaE *signs off and back on* 19:08 VanessaE the ghost is still there. 19:09 VanessaE and still "lying down", dead. 19:12 VanessaE hm, I just realized just how rapidly those messages were pouring in 19:13 NakedFury is that only on your version? 19:13 VanessaE eh? 19:13 NakedFury the sign on/off problem 19:14 VanessaE it happens to everyone 19:14 VanessaE twoelk can also see the ghost player, btw 19:32 celeron55 VanessaE: so can everyone get in after being left dead on the ground? 19:33 VanessaE celeron55: so far only this one player seems to be affected. 19:33 VanessaE and she's still there even now 19:36 VanessaE oops. 19:36 VanessaE also, Dan was having a similar problem logging in, but that appears to have been a problem local to him. 19:37 celeron55 can you add "connect" and "List of players" to your grep line? 19:37 VanessaE meanwhile, my FPS have been going up and down, all over the map, and I haven't moved from this spot for half an hour now 19:37 VanessaE sure. 19:37 celeron55 also it seems that nobody is leaving the game in that piece of log 19:38 VanessaE accounting for that too. hang on a bit while I get the log loaded. 19:38 celeron55 altough i can't really tell because it just might not show them 19:41 celeron55 hmm 19:41 celeron55 the actual point where that exact player bugged would be most useful 19:42 VanessaE I'm trying to get that now. arguing with gedit. 19:53 celeron55 gedit seems to be good at arguing 19:53 VanessaE there, finally found it 19:53 VanessaE lesse if pastebin barfs on this ;) 19:53 VanessaE hrrf.. hhrr.... blEHAHHH! :) 19:54 VanessaE I'll just upload the excerpt :) 19:55 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/login-glitch-1.txt 19:55 VanessaE from the last what looked like a successful login until when she reported the problem 19:55 VanessaE (produced by, egrep -i "join|ServerEnvironment::|connect|leaves|left|list of players" /home/minetest/.minetest/debug-survival.txt|gedit - ) 19:57 celeron55 hmm, it doesn't contain any new errors added by the duplication patch 19:57 VanessaE oh dog. 19:57 VanessaE ;) 19:57 celeron55 so if it's because of it, it causes it by working... correctly 19:58 VanessaE maybe she's just on via another client somewhere and forgot? 19:58 VanessaE but why can't I ban it off? 20:00 celeron55 what kind of mechanism does banning use for kicking people out 20:00 VanessaE no clue :) 20:00 VanessaE I just use the /ban command, which has always booted the user out right awy 20:00 VanessaE away* 20:01 VanessaE /status also shows her/it still being here 20:01 celeron55 hmm, it works so that the ban is only set, and the ban is only checked when data is received from a client 20:02 VanessaE that makes some sense: 20:02 celeron55 so if the client sends absolutely nothing except low-level pings in the minetest protocol, the server can leave it at that state 20:02 VanessaE when she reported the problem, she signed on with a different nick. when I banned the "right" one, only her secondary nick got booted off 20:03 celeron55 one guess is that that player has a jammed minetest client process running somewhere, jammed in such a way that the network thread still runs... 20:04 celeron55 i wouldn't have guessed that this could happen 8) 20:04 VanessaE lol 20:04 VanessaE well looks like it can :D 20:05 Exio4 how the fuck can that network thread still live? 20:05 VanessaE I'm afraid to restart the server - this is too unique of a study opp :) 20:07 celeron55 the client is probably accumulating more and more data in it's buffers and at some point (somewhere between days and years) it will fill the computer's RAM and the OS will kill it 20:08 celeron55 not sure though; but i would assume that the server does send stuff to it 20:08 VanessaE ah the other client just now left 20:09 VanessaE the 'stuck' pne 20:09 VanessaE one* 20:09 Exio4 reason? 20:09 celeron55 maybe the computer was shut down 20:09 Exio4 timeout? 20:09 Exio4 :P 20:09 VanessaE Exio4: idk, maybe so, c55. 20:10 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/9baFxF2i 20:10 VanessaE last 45 lines leading up to the sign-off 20:10 VanessaE not that they're of much help 20:11 celeron55 oh that's cool, it didn't even time out 8) 20:12 celeron55 hmm 20:13 celeron55 maybe the client was actually running and it really doesn't send any data to the server if it's not moving? 20:13 celeron55 that should be relatively easy to test 20:14 VanessaE hard to say, she was kinda panicky when she reported the problem - "was I banned?", etc. 20:14 VanessaE wrong server, c55 20:14 VanessaE use port 30001 20:14 VanessaE :) 20:15 celeron55 it takes so long to connect i'll probably not try 20:15 VanessaE sowwy :) 20:16 celeron55 i bet minetest has collected the most patient people in the universe because of these connection times 20:17 Exio4 hehe 20:17 VanessaE lol 20:18 celeron55 yeah so ban me now 20:18 VanessaE ok 20:18 VanessaE you dropped off instantly. 20:22 celeron55 i need to find a suitable place, then i need to wait and then i'll request a ban again 8) 20:23 VanessaE sure 20:23 VanessaE how long's it taking for subsequent connects, btw? 20:24 celeron55 okay, ban me now 20:25 VanessaE banned. 20:25 celeron55 did it work? 20:25 VanessaE but......youre still here? 20:25 celeron55 8))) 20:25 VanessaE dafuq? 20:25 VanessaE YOU BWOKE IT! :) 20:25 celeron55 i'm standing still, not moving and waited for until the server had no more blocks to send to the client 20:25 celeron55 in this situation the client will send nothing to the server at all, ever 20:26 celeron55 i'll move now 20:26 VanessaE you're already signed off. 20:26 VanessaE it just took a bit 20:26 celeron55 maybe the server decided to send something or whatever 20:27 VanessaE could be one of the IRC messages floating across was enough to trigger it? 20:27 celeron55 it's fairly certain it was just some block modification reply 20:28 celeron55 s/reply/ack/ 20:28 VanessaE oh ok 20:28 VanessaE mind trying something? 20:28 VanessaE (unrelated) 20:28 celeron55 anyway, this proves that it could have been just a working client standing absolutely still 20:29 VanessaE yes, possibly so 20:29 celeron55 dunno; i like to hear requests before agreeing to them 20:30 VanessaE I just wanted you to sign on and sit there at the spawn for a few minutes 20:30 VanessaE observe your fps while I sign in and out 20:32 celeron55 i can't really use this laptop for any fps measurements because this does some fairly aggressive cpu throttling over time making performance drop slowly under load 20:32 VanessaE trust me 20:32 VanessaE slower is better in this case 20:33 celeron55 whatever, i'm going to need to let this "burn in" first 20:33 celeron55 also, youtube takes 50% of CPU on this, so that's going to have an effect too 8) 20:33 VanessaE ok 20:33 Exio4 celeron55: disable cpufreq! :P 20:33 celeron55 it isn't used 20:34 celeron55 oh also, i'm not at spawn; is it necessary to be at spawn? 20:34 VanessaE no but it helps 20:34 VanessaE because there is a lot more stuff built-up in that area 20:34 VanessaE /spawn will get you there. 20:35 celeron55 well i have 15 FPS at this position at a viewing range of 35 20:35 celeron55 now it went to 25 20:35 celeron55 and back to 15 20:35 celeron55 what the fuck 20:36 VanessaE uh huh. 20:37 celeron55 it was at 10 for a long time, then went to 18 20:37 celeron55 now it's at 18 constantly 8) 20:37 celeron55 now around 15 20:37 celeron55 11 20:37 VanessaE that makes 8 clients connected to my server 20:37 celeron55 10 20:38 celeron55 8 20:38 celeron55 7 20:38 celeron55 22 20:38 VanessaE all running a plain old vanilla client with default 16x textures and nothing fancy 20:38 celeron55 19 20:38 celeron55 this is nonsense, but i don't know if this is just this laptop throttling stuff cyclically or minetest doing something 20:38 VanessaE (I'm about maxed out on clients, not enough cores left :D 20:38 VanessaE ) 20:38 VanessaE it isn't you 20:39 VanessaE this happens to everyone 20:39 VanessaE at least on mine and Kaeza's servers. 20:39 VanessaE now here's a test 20:39 VanessaE press 'i' 20:39 VanessaE does the screen jitter a lot or flicker? 20:39 VanessaE just before the menu appears 20:39 sfan5 VanessaE: that happens when you disable preload item visuals 20:40 VanessaE sfan5: oh ok, unrelated then. 20:40 sfan5 because irrlicht renders them to a texture and it sometimes doesn't manage to keep the current screen while rendering 20:40 sfan5 them = item visuals 20:40 VanessaE anyway, that's immaterial, I just wanted c55 to see the fps dropout issue first-hand :) 20:41 celeron55 i didn't see any "FPS dropout" 20:41 celeron55 i saw wildly varying FPS over like periods of one minute 20:41 proller https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/952 - kahrl already looked at c++ code 20:42 VanessaE you did. those wild changes in fps due to my signing in - this happens to all players, no matter where they are or who is signing in. the time it takes to receive the media to the signing-in client is about how long the fps dropout lasts, sometimes it goes beyond. 20:42 VanessaE proller: um, offtopic..... 20:42 celeron55 http://anonmgur.com/up/a9b89bc48d7933e8a79e27d29519732a.png 20:43 celeron55 nothing visible in chat, huge changes in processing time 20:43 celeron55 and the mouse didn't move any pixels 20:43 VanessaE each of my 6 clients are getting 6 to 9 fps, total of around 50-55 fps. 20:45 VanessaE all 6 are standing at the spawn, doing nothing at all. 20:45 VanessaE (except one that I just had to walk backward a bit to get out of the way) 20:46 celeron55 proller: it's fine, let's just let it randomly rot for a while like we're used to! 20:49 celeron55 well i guess i can merge it 20:49 celeron55 sorry for anyone who isn't as loud as proller and doesn't get stuff merged because of that 20:49 celeron55 (you're free to punch proller) 20:49 VanessaE heh 20:49 celeron55 (i'm innocent) 20:51 celeron55 actually, i'll not merge this; you squash it and merge it 20:53 * VanessaE punches proller for causing her own contributions to be hidden :) 20:54 VanessaE (the proposed contribution is, https://github.com/VanessaE/homedecor/blob/master/lib_6d.lua -> builtin) 21:02 sfan5 comments on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/958 please 21:02 sfan5 s/comments/opinions/ 21:03 VanessaE seems innocuous enough 21:05 pitriss nick completion by tab key would be better.. this can be listed by /status 21:08 Exio4 it is done in the console 21:09 Exio4 if someone implements copy-paste support, the super-limited chat could be replaced by the powerful console 21:09 Exio4 i didn't want to bother with irrlicht, because i can't try it (clipboard support under linux is shit) 21:12 sfan5[iPod] pitriss: holding tab is much easier than typing /status 21:25 pitriss yes but.. player i think, player listing is not so rapidly used to have special key.. once per hout is still OK to write one command. and on other hand.. it doesn't look like it will work when console is opened.. 21:26 pitriss -player i think.. 21:26 proller VanessaE, this channel is single threaded? 21:27 VanessaE in a way, yes :) 21:29 proller sfan5, maybe: if you have teleport priv - player can be clickable(or maybe keyboard-selectable) for teleport to him 21:30 proller sfan5, and maybe show distance to player 22:16 Sokomine regarding #958: that would be very fine. not only for those players coming from minecraft, but for all others as well. the /status command has to be known first, and typed, and it is a very long line with all the names mixed. sfan5s display seems fine 22:18 Sokomine perhaps adding a few keys to which mods could react to would be helpful as well (i.e. steering cars or other vehicles) 22:34 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/959 22:38 VanessaE (I leave it up to others to decide how best to actually use that code) 23:14 Exio4 sfan5: make it transparent, ??, profit :P 23:21 kaeza suddenly: white fonts on white background 23:34 Exio4 transparent means alpha=192 23:34 Exio4 because it looks better that way