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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-08-18

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Time Nick Message
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02:16 kahrl https://gist.github.com/kahrl/6259610 does this make sense?
02:16 kahrl I tested it with minetest.env:debug(some args) with both the bundled lua and luajit
02:17 kahrl both seem to work, and it fixes the issue that trailing nils are dropped
02:17 ShadowNinja kahrl: Looks good.
02:29 kaeza kahrl, ah Lua may do some special processing for the special symbol `...'
02:29 kaeza that is interesting...
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08:26 nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/876
08:26 nore any thoughts on this?
08:36 sfan5 nore: see my comment
08:37 nore I thought it wasn't merged because of main menu
08:38 nore so we will see the comments this time, but I guess it won't be merged as-is
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09:52 kahrl nore, I don't think your commit works
09:52 kahrl you can't rely on the user starting the world immediately after creating it
09:53 kahrl try creating two worlds with seeds 1 and 2 and then starting the first world
09:53 kahrl btw, is there a way of doing this that doesn't punish users whose copy+paste doesn't work in irrlicht?
09:58 sapier joined #minetest-dev
10:06 sapier kahrl you do at least 2 string copy operations more lua->core  ... core->lua for gettext call ... of course none of those single performance penaltys will be an issue ... in this special case it most likeky wont be a problem because gettext() is used for UI only. At least atm ... but I feel solutions like that are used in way to many occasions in mt ... and later ppl wonder why mt is slow
10:07 sapier kahrl os.clock() isn't very usefull for tracing. it's accuracy is 10ms (on linux) only. So all function < 10ms evaluate to 0
10:07 sapier s/tracing/profiling/
10:09 thexyz celeron55: do we have any policy regarding mods with closed source?
10:12 celeron55 policy in what?
10:12 sapier mt is lgpl you could even sell it
10:12 celeron55 the only policy i know of is for the forum's modding releases section, and that is against those
10:13 celeron55 -ding
10:13 thexyz hm, okay
10:13 sapier is there any closed source mod?
10:14 thexyz sapier: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6890
10:15 sapier ahh sdzen :-)
10:16 thexyz attention whoring fail
10:16 sapier I wonder when license discussion will start again
10:16 celeron55 what zden is doing we call "vittuilu" in finland
10:16 celeron55 sdzen*
10:17 sapier I guess this is backlash to some ppl demanding wtfp licenses that strong
10:18 celeron55 by the way, what the hell is the point of the CC-BY-NC-ND license?
10:18 celeron55 what exactly is "creative commons" about it except the name? 8)
10:18 sapier especialy as the one doing that didn't even publish any big mod :-)
10:19 celeron55 it's more restrictive than most freeware, lol
10:19 sapier but maybe you're allowed to read source code ;-)
10:21 sapier imho we shouldn't enforce license limitations. I believe in mid or long term to restrictive licenses will sort out themselfes
10:21 sapier at least for mods :-)
10:22 celeron55 i don't want to take the chances because one core point of our community is code that's free to build upon by anyone
10:23 celeron55 it would suck too much to try to get back to the current way if it gets out of hand
10:24 celeron55 both are cancer, but i prefer this cancer 8)
10:25 BlockMen joined #minetest-dev
10:26 sapier why do we need to get back? those who like open licenses will continue to use them. In other case you loose those who don't want to give away everything without even beeing mentioned for it ;-)
10:27 BlockMen hi, im having trouble with the last commit. i made a new build including commit "09a50d0" and it results this http://i.imgur.com/EyBbEyu.png
10:27 Calinou ND makes it a pain for forks
10:27 Calinou it's just bad
10:27 sapier ND is silly of course nothing to discussa bout that point :-)
10:27 celeron55 sapier: that's one core question that comes up in license discussions - whether closed licenses take away from free ones or not
10:27 celeron55 sapier: that's why i mentioned "taking chances" - because i don't know whether it's the case here
10:27 celeron55 and can't know
10:28 sapier me too I guess this is a matter of believe ;-)
10:28 sapier BlockMan you're missing i18n
10:29 sapier and no don't blame me that commit was modified drasticaly compared to the one I suggested ;-P
10:29 thexyz sapier: license restrictions only apply to "mod releases" section
10:29 sapier thexyz yes and that's fine that way
10:29 celeron55 i actually encourage somebody to make a second site with closed mods and link to it in minetest-related projects or so
10:30 sapier I guess we need to specify rules for modb too soon
10:30 celeron55 mmdb is a problem in this for sure...
10:30 BlockMen sapier, im not blaming anyone. im was just telling because i had trouble with gettext at msvc before
10:30 sapier oh this is msvc only by now? interesting fact ;-)
10:31 sapier btw I was joking about "blameing"
10:31 proller https://github.com/proller/minetest/compare/master...liquid63 - liquid next step
10:32 celeron55 i think we kind of have the obligation to allow closed source mods in mmdb, because the other way would be unfairly limiting to them
10:33 celeron55 but i would strongly encourage eg. asking a low submission price from them
10:34 sapier I guess a license field is missing in modstore
10:34 celeron55 or at least publicly reserving the possibility of starting to do that
10:34 sapier its missing in in gui only of course
10:34 celeron55 because nobody will like hosting a mod database full of closed mods for free
10:35 thexyz we can have nonfree flag and set it by default to off
10:35 sapier I don't know why not host closed mods exept of personal feelings ... this is different for commercial ones of course
10:36 thexyz taking money seems rather odd
10:36 sapier as far as I know mmdb supports external links too maybe closed mods won't be allowed to be stored in mmdb infrastructure but are forced to be hosted external?
10:36 celeron55 sapier: that doesn't really make sense
10:37 celeron55 thexyz: as long as you host it, you can do whatever you like; personally i think nobody should be required to host stuff from their own pocket
10:37 thexyz i don't see any problems with hosting mods that are free as free beer
10:37 sapier no? I thought "hosting" was targeted at "providing bandwitdh" for it?
10:38 celeron55 sapier: well, mmdb includes moderation for mods so that people can't include malicious code
10:38 celeron55 if they were gotten from elsewhere, it would be trivial to abuse it
10:38 sapier ok this is a problem
10:38 celeron55 thexyz: that's a valid opinion
10:39 sapier but if you want to ensure non malicious code mobf never will be part of mmdb
10:39 thexyz sapier: why?
10:39 celeron55 it's not about ensuring, it's about reducing the risks considerably
10:39 sapier because I don't believe anyone will read full mobf code to confirm it doesn't contain maicious code
10:42 sapier ok reducing risk is possible as malicious mods could be sorted out ... but this can be done for closed ones too
10:43 sapier so risk is (roughly) (time since upload / number of downloads) * some factor ;-)
10:43 sapier ... forget about it :-)
10:44 celeron55 anyway we do need the security improvements for the API
10:45 celeron55 the risk for malicious mods and human error is too large otherwise
10:46 celeron55 (the only valid opinion against that is if the same person also is overally against the automated database)
10:46 sapier so its time to think about security changeset again and find out what's usefull and what still needs to be improoved?
10:47 celeron55 well, we either have both, the database and the security patches, or neither
10:47 celeron55 it doesn't make sense to have only either one
10:47 celeron55 and it seems we're going to have the db, so there are no options
10:49 sapier ok I'll have a look at the security pull request and see what's still valid but I wont fight for it against everyone else like last time
10:49 celeron55 you can freely quote my reasoning 8)
10:50 sapier and you are ok with api changes (where not possible to avoid) too? Of course first we need to find a way to avoid but maybe this isn't possible everywhere
10:51 celeron55 i think it should be as minimal as possible; didn't you already have the things for allowing safe file access with existing interfaces?
10:51 sapier e.g. os.execute ... this can't be done in a safe way and some ppl will fight against disabling it ;-)
10:52 celeron55 eg. os.execute should be just hidden from mods
10:52 sapier yes I did
10:52 sapier hiding is like obfuscuating ... you need to disable debug to really stop mods from accessing it that way
10:52 celeron55 well of course that too
10:53 celeron55 but don't eg. do any of the complete metatable removal; remove the *metatable functions after builtin has been run and similarly for similar things
10:53 sapier this is necessary because debug does allow accessing lua stack by index ... hidden functions will still have same index on each start so you'd have to find out that index only once
10:54 sapier metatable is more complex ... yes I know it needs to be done but I'd have done that in a second step with help of someone who is more experienced in metatables ... any suggestions?
10:55 celeron55 suggestions? well, how about adding setmetatable = nil; getmetatable = nil; to the end of builtin.lua
10:55 sapier do you think this is enough?
10:55 celeron55 it most likely is
10:56 celeron55 the scopes should work to our favour
10:56 celeron55 all this isn't as hard as you think :P
10:56 sapier at least if we can remove all features allowing to ignore scopes
10:57 celeron55 those should be limited to debug
10:57 celeron55 ...as far as i know
10:57 sapier the hard thing is not to miss a single leak as this'd be enough ;-)
10:58 celeron55 http://securityreactions.tumblr.com/post/36806874808/trying-to-exploit-a-sandboxed-environment
10:58 celeron55 8)
10:58 celeron55 pictured: the scopes of mods
10:58 sapier :-)
11:01 sapier completely unrelated does minetest support animated gifs in formspec? :-)
11:05 thexyz what's wrong with metatables?
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11:12 sapier nothing is wrong they're just a nightmare as of security point of view ;-)
11:13 thexyz well can you elaborate exactly how they're "a nightmare"?
11:13 sapier you can do anything you want if you have metatable access by mod
11:14 thexyz can you provide an example? or a link for me to read about it?
11:15 celeron55 why not just googling "lua sandboxing metatables"
11:15 celeron55 first result: http://lua-users.org/wiki/SandBoxes
11:15 sapier it's some time ago since I evaluated this as security was always dropped if I remember correctly by metatable access you can break out of sandbox using arbitrary functions again
11:15 celeron55 ctrl+f metatable
11:15 celeron55 basically a mod can affect the behavior of any other code by modifying metatables
11:16 celeron55 you can't use arbitrary functions (AFAIK), but you can practically feed any data you want to functions that any other code calls
11:17 celeron55 by just making the metatable make something be read as something else (or eg. modifying how string operations work, or whatnot)
11:17 sapier I'd be surprised if this couldn't be abused to call other functions
11:17 celeron55 i don't think you can get a reference to a function that isn't in your current scope
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11:18 celeron55 but... well, if you can inject a function as a callback via a metatable to something where the global environment or get/setmetatable is passed as a parameter, then you have it
11:18 celeron55 8)
11:18 celeron55 basically metatables create infinite holes
11:20 celeron55 but not very serious ones in common cases; it's easiest to just crash something with them
11:20 thexyz oh, okay
11:20 sapier does anyone have a hint for me where to look for chat drawing code? I'm annoyed chat messages catching clicks meant for gui :-)
11:20 thexyz now I'll just have to make user add a line to builtin .lua to make stress work, great
11:22 sapier found it .. I should ask faster ... did look for it half an hour now :-)
11:23 celeron55 thexyz: after some time we might add some kind of a system for allowing some mods to be automatically trusted, but yes, you'll have harder time with stress in the near future
11:23 celeron55 thexyz: of course a better alternative for stress is to just toggle off mod security from settings :P
11:23 celeron55 oh, talking of which... we need protected settings 8)
11:24 celeron55 protected from mods, that is :P
11:24 sapier I allready added that ;-P
11:24 sapier very simple all settings starting with "security" are read only if security is enabled :-)
11:27 thexyz oh well
11:27 thexyz because fuck oop yeah
11:28 sapier but still mods like map or irc will fail as they require to execute external apps
11:28 celeron55 thexyz: it's really no use insulting us; we just do what we need to
11:29 celeron55 sapier: a setting required for those is understandable to anyone
11:29 celeron55 a setting required for thexyz's stress thing is less understandable
11:30 celeron55 (if this is new to someone, it's a jquery-like thing for MT's API)
11:31 thexyz yay, yay, I have no idea how many mods actually use metatables
11:32 sapier I remember some small pieces about that one :-)
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11:32 thexyz but there's no point in security if most mods will ask you to disable it
11:32 celeron55 afaik not many mods at all
11:33 thexyz okay
11:33 sapier most common use is serialization but thats builtin
11:33 celeron55 thexyz: what kind of stuff does stress use metatables for?
11:34 celeron55 i'm wondering whether those uses could be added to builtin as some kind of limited functions that still are always secure... probably not
11:34 celeron55 you could research that a bit if you're bored 8)
11:35 thexyz celeron55: OOP, obviously
11:36 thexyz closures are not an option
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11:55 sapier does anyone have an idea how to push chat behind formspecmenu? just pulling all menus to front doesn't seem to work
11:55 sapier hiding chat completely while a menu is active isn't an option am I right?
12:01 celeron55 sapier: well the problem is that the guiroot element (main.cpp, mainmenumanager.h) is created before the chat
12:01 celeron55 try IGUIElement::sendToBack() or something
12:02 celeron55 after the chat stuff is created
12:02 celeron55 to something
12:03 sapier sendToBack seems to be quite new ... at least my irrlicht version doesn't have it
12:04 sapier I tried to pull all menus after chat creation too but no success by now
12:08 kahrl sapier: try bringToBack, it was renamed in 2011
12:09 sapier not available too
12:09 kahrl maybe bringToFront when a formspec menu is created
12:10 sapier I tried different positiosns by now but didn't succeed but bringToFront requires parent and child ... not sure if I need to pull menu childs to top too
12:12 kahrl you have the menu and you have guiroot
12:12 sapier not sure if I even have right parent :-)
12:13 kahrl what did you try?
12:13 sapier getParent() of menu
12:13 kahrl well that's guiroot
12:14 sapier ok then it should work ... I thin I need to verify this
12:14 sapier wait ... guiroot is a text element? :-)
12:14 celeron55 irrlicht doesn't have a proper GUI hierarchy so i invented that hack 8)
12:15 celeron55 a looong time ago
12:15 sapier maybe it doesn't work because the guiroot is visible and always drawn after it's children?
12:16 kahrl irrlicht always sends (mouse) events to the innermost child, afaik
12:16 sapier if menu is child of guiroot text this is obviously not true as the click doesn't have any effect while text is displayed on top of a button
12:17 kahrl celeron55: what about IGUIEnvironment::getRootGUIElement()?
12:17 celeron55 kahrl: oh dunno, maybe i was just blind or something; just try it
12:18 celeron55 or maybe there is some unobvious reason that i have forgotten and isn't even a reason anymore 8)
12:19 sapier hmm children are only drawn if root element is visible. As hiding chat is possible while menu still beeing drawn the chat and root element can't be same
12:20 kahrl sapier: yeah the chat element and the formspec menu are siblings
12:22 kahrl wait, actually no
12:22 kahrl the chat element is a child of the actual root (getRootGUIElement) and formspec is a child of guiroot
12:22 kahrl that's why your bringToFront doesn't help
12:24 sapier ahh so I need to pull guiroot to front
12:25 sapier ok works ... still looks ugly with text behind transparent gui but at least the interface works now
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12:31 kahrl when I try to remove guiroot and use NULL instead the formspec is missing from the mainmenu
12:32 sapier guienv->getRootGUIElement()->bringToFront(guiroot); at game.cpp 3000 will work
12:33 sapier great ... while generating map mobf spawn algorithms consume 60% of total minetest cpu time
12:33 sapier I guess there's some work to do
12:35 PilzAdam sapier, try simple mobs :-p
12:35 sapier of cours if I wanted stupid mobs I'd use it ;-P
12:37 sapier or did you finaly manage to make your mobs not go swim all the time?
12:37 PilzAdam no, they like swimming
12:37 sapier and diving of course ;-P
12:38 sapier but I guess I need to fix the spawning problem I need the cpu power for advanced movegen now honoring mob extents
12:41 sapier btw pa did you try the autorotate feature with sm?
12:41 PilzAdam not yet
12:42 sapier I guess I know why mobf mobs are rotated 90° to sm mobs .. I didn't want to add a offset for autorotate
12:43 BlockMen #877 fixes the tab issue like here -> http://i.imgur.com/EyBbEyu.png
12:44 BlockMen *at msvc builds
12:44 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/878 fixes chat catching menu clicks
12:45 kahrl wow
12:45 sapier wow?
12:45 kahrl does msvc seriously delete temporaries before the end of the statement?
12:45 kahrl or what is going on in #877
12:47 sapier that'd be the best explanation why this should help
12:48 PilzAdam sapier, ummmm... you do realise that mobf's rotation is wrong?
12:48 sapier but that's very very tough optimization
12:49 sapier no sm and main model is wrong ... unless you want to add a offset to any single autoupdate
12:49 PilzAdam try using upright_sprite, you will notice that they will move sideways
12:50 PilzAdam so either fix your mobf models or add the offset
12:50 sapier so we have inconsistent orientations within core
12:50 sapier sprites moving different than models
12:50 PilzAdam not really, the only thing that has an offset is mobf
12:50 sapier autorotate doesn't have an offset
12:51 sapier I don't rotate models myself anymore in current version
12:51 PilzAdam you should add it or your mobf mobs will move sideways, since then Im gonna fix the rotation
12:51 PilzAdam since the offset you have hardcoded now breaks everything else
12:51 sapier WHAT? you're gonna add a offset to autorotation ???
12:53 sapier m_yaw = atan2(m_velocity.Z,m_velocity.X) * 180 / M_PI; is plain degree to rad transalation am I right? n offset
12:53 sapier if you want to make YOUR mobs move correct you need to do a + x*M_PI
12:53 sapier that's an offset
12:54 kahrl sapier, your menu commit moves item tooltips behind the menu
12:55 sapier argh I want "bringtoback" ;-)
12:56 kahrl perhaps we can get rid of the custom "root" element completely like so: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/6261515
12:56 kahrl sapier: does that ^ fix the issue you're trying to solve?
12:56 sapier I try
12:57 sapier pa is doing the celeron after not knowing what to tell about offsets ;-)
12:58 PilzAdam what?
12:59 sapier I understood you want to ADD a additional offset to autorotate is this true or false?
13:00 kahrl we'll obviously there are two opposing views on what offset should be used
13:00 kahrl we should make a compromise and use 45 degrees
13:00 sapier no there shouldn't be a offset used at all
13:00 kahrl well*
13:00 sapier offset == add something -->cpu load
13:00 PilzAdam sapier, fact is that it breaks everything except your models
13:00 sapier so it's changeing a model once and for ever not causing any additional cpu load
13:01 sapier or cause additional cpuload on each engine step for any model
13:01 PilzAdam you also need to change the upright_sprite drawtype and add an offset there
13:01 PilzAdam also adding a value will surely add 10 seconds CPU times per second
13:02 sapier of course its better to add a workaround than fixing a bug ... sorry thats really insane
13:03 PilzAdam ummm.. for some reason all my mobs walk in squares, and I have commented out all setyaw() calls
13:04 sapier but enabled autorotate?
13:04 PilzAdam yes
13:04 sapier of course autorotate doesn't use a offset
13:05 sapier unless this is wrong: m_yaw = atan2(m_velocity.Z,m_velocity.X) * 180 / M_PI;
13:05 sapier you gonna need to fix it
13:05 sapier and missing a "+ x*M_PI" is NOT beeing wrong
13:06 sapier kahrl your version is better I dropp the pull request
13:07 kahrl sapier: there might be other stuff my version is breaking
13:07 sapier mine does break things too
13:07 kahrl yeah
13:08 sapier PA if you manage to find a way to fix that line without adding additional addition I'm gonna switch my models but fixing compiletime bugs in runtime is insane
13:09 kahrl sapier, PA, do you think this should be merged? https://gist.github.com/kahrl/6259610
13:09 kahrl sapier: ^ should fix problems with find_path in mobf
13:10 PilzAdam kahrl, if it works, sure
13:10 sapier problem with find_path? didn't even know about it :-)
13:10 kahrl PilzAdam: tested it with both bundled lua and luajit-2.0.0_beta7
13:10 kahrl sapier: something about trailing nils (with cause crashes because the core doesn't detect them as nils)
13:11 sapier oh
13:11 kahrl sapier: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=93768#p93768
13:12 sapier that one ... I thought it was settled long time ago
13:12 kahrl unless you changed the minetest.env:find_path call to minetest.find_path, no
13:12 sapier I did :-)
13:13 kahrl ah :)
13:13 sapier I don't use legacy functions
13:13 kahrl the line in deprecated.lua should be fixed anyway though
13:13 sapier true
13:15 PilzAdam are angles usually passed as radian or degree to the API?
13:16 sapier depends
13:16 sapier if I remember correctly it's not consistent but degrees are more common
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13:21 PilzAdam sapier, https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/6261635
13:21 BlockMen can #877 and #865 be merged?
13:21 sapier NO
13:21 sapier yo do an addition where it's not necessary this function is called at very high frequency
13:22 sapier it's not like doing a text conversion on mouseclick
13:22 PilzAdam its the only sane way to solve it, since its valid to have upright_sprite move sideways or something else
13:22 sapier no it's no sane way ... it's the only way to make lazy modders not need to change their buggy models
13:23 PilzAdam so upright_sprite is a "buggy" model?
13:23 sapier where's the upright sprite code? maybe there is a bug
13:23 sapier but the way you suggest adds performance penalty to any single step multiplied by number of entities
13:24 PilzAdam how do you define "bug"? what is the correct way, is the flat side the front or the wide one?
13:24 sapier front is same as face to me
13:24 PilzAdam you really whine about one single + ?
13:25 sapier it's a single + called thousand times a second
13:26 sapier it's not done in some rare to happen case it's done EVERYTIME
13:26 sapier yes on your 16 core i7 power machine this isn't even noticable
13:26 PilzAdam following this we need to remove the automatic_face_movement_dir completly
13:26 sapier following your arguments we need to not do anything
13:26 Calinou there is no 16 core i7
13:26 Calinou not even 8 cores :P
13:27 kahrl Calinou, just use multiple processors and bam
13:27 sapier but the difference between autorotation and your fix is autorotation can't be done prior compilation
13:27 sapier rotation of model to avoid this addition is done once
13:28 PilzAdam no, you cant rotate upright_sprite in a mod
13:28 Calinou on top of that Minetest isn't multithreaded much
13:28 PilzAdam stop thinking about models
13:29 sapier who uses upright sprite and how are they drawn explain to me maybe I understand why you think there can't be a fix
13:29 PilzAdam its simply insane to define that one direction is supported
13:29 PilzAdam there are at least 2 ways that are perfectly valid
13:30 sapier so we drop any attempt to keep performance in a usefull matter as soon as pa doesn't want to fix a bug in his mods ... great
13:31 PilzAdam I am not talking about my mods, I am talking about upright_sprite
13:31 PilzAdam also, I dont believe you that this increase CPU time a lot, feel free to benchmark it and prove me wrong
13:31 sapier I guess by fixing content_cao.cpp L 897 you could even rotate upright sprites to not require rotation for them
13:32 sapier PA it's not a single occasion causing a game to be slow it's 100000 needls
13:33 sapier the single blocker is easy to find but the small things where 1 or 2 cpu operations are wasted 1000 times a second are difficult to sort out
13:42 kahrl sapier: I think you could save more CPU time by not repeatedly calling updateNodePos
13:42 sapier another optimization of course ... but doesn't make a difference for the other case
13:44 kahrl PA is right, some might want the sprite to face the wide side or the small side
13:44 sapier so we add a performance penalty for everyone ... fine
13:44 kahrl think of an oerkki (wide side is front) vs. a ship (wide side is side)
13:45 sapier we do have sprites with multiple sides
13:45 sapier so if you want a sprite having front back top whatever you can already do that
13:45 kahrl you mean like the DM?
13:46 sapier btw autorotate doesn't even make sense for upright sprites
13:46 PilzAdam what?
13:47 sapier isn't the uprighte sprite the one showing same direction to player everytime?
13:47 PilzAdam no
13:47 PilzAdam upright_sprite is the 2D player
13:47 PilzAdam the thing that my mobs previously used
13:47 sapier ok still different views are possible same way as dm
13:48 PilzAdam btw, Ill merge #865 since its a copy and paste error
13:48 sapier so why do we need any single feature in different variants
13:49 sapier ok
13:50 kahrl PilzAdam: yeah can be merged
13:55 sapier btw does someone use the dm sprite mechanism?
13:55 PilzAdam no, I dont think so
13:55 kahrl celeron's mob+dungeon mod certainly does
13:55 sapier explains why it seems to be broken in current core
13:56 sapier mobf uses it for 2d mobs too but that feature isn't tested very often and it doesn't seem to work right now
14:56 sapier ok not a core issue
14:58 sapier it's a little bit diffucult to tell but orientation seems to be fine for sprites too (without offset)
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15:24 sapier are temperatures in degree celsius?
15:24 Jordach sapier, yes
15:25 sapier wow ... 52 degrees celsius in grassland?
15:25 PilzAdam no, they are not in °C, humans cant survive in >70°C in the desert
15:26 sapier that's what I meant ;-)
15:43 ShadowNinja I usually get -70C in skyblock...
15:44 sapier that's fine but +70 in desert and 50 in grassland?
15:44 sapier this can't be celsius ;-)
15:45 ShadowNinja Fine? I maybe shivering just a bit. Oh, wait, no, I will be frozen.
15:45 Calinou farheinheit ftl
15:45 ShadowNinja This can probably be solved by just tweaking some noiseparams.
15:46 sapier I think so too it's no problem just a little bit irritating
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16:43 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/879 don't update direction for mobs automatic facing movement direction if they're not moving at all
16:45 ShadowNinja auto-face should be designed with things other than mobs in mind.
16:45 sapier ok any suggestions?
16:46 ShadowNinja Although I need set_pitch before it is usefull to me. (a guided missle mod)
16:46 sapier so you need to update it to 3d mode no problem just do it ;-)
16:47 ShadowNinja Currently the missle stays straight up even while falling.
16:47 ShadowNinja Update it to 3D mode?
16:47 ShadowNinja It uses a model.
16:48 sapier no what I meant is autorotate uses yaw only atm you could enhance it to use pitch too
16:52 sapier as we don't seem to care about performance I suggest not using a single value but a table e.g. { autorotate_xz=true/false, autorotate_xy=true/false,  offset_xz=math.pi*whaterver, offset_xy=math.pi*whatever } ... I guess this will allow all combinations of wrong models sprites whatever to be rotated correct
16:53 sapier Sorry Shadow you've not been the bady guy but have been hit too ;-)
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19:55 proller ShadowNinja, not noise is +- good, need more smart normalizing season change, now it stupid -30..+30 depend on season
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21:50 sapier1 new record 80C in grassland ;-P
21:59 sfan5 can someone test if #880 is fine?
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22:02 proller sapier1, need to make tree burn abm
22:04 sapier1 80° I guess I should make chicken avoid that areas ;-)
22:39 kaeza make air turn into ice at -272ºC :P
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22:49 proller kaeza, it need to make custom melt-freeze temps for any block type
22:49 kaeza proller, the ":P" meant it was a joke
22:50 kaeza anyway, that is a good feature to have
22:50 proller its in my todo, but dont know start doing it
22:50 proller to make lavacooling via it
22:51 proller ^^ dont know when start
22:51 proller and if it starts work with lava - no problem to make with air 8)

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