Time  Nick     Message
00:00 kahrl    hmm now it is 10-15 FPS
00:01 kahrl    it settled at 10 FPS (range 9-12)
00:02 VanessaE 11fps for me and it's dropping slowly.
00:03 kahrl    yeah, it is dropping, now I'm starting to get 8 FPS sometimes
00:03 VanessaE this is definitely not the contents of the world doing it
00:06 kahrl    have you tried making all the pipes drawtype normal?
00:06 VanessaE not yet, but it isn't the pipes doing it
00:06 kahrl    sure?
00:06 VanessaE normally I get 20-23 fps around the spawn.  Now, abotu 11
00:07 VanessaE with no changes whatever to the contents of the world near the spawn, nor to the pipeworks mod
00:08 kahrl    the alpha trees aren't the problem either?
00:08 VanessaE what alpha?
00:08 VanessaE you mean the leaves?
00:09 kahrl    the tree with alpha glass around it
00:09 VanessaE nope, that's been there forever
00:09 kahrl    with an actual alpha texture?
00:09 VanessaE yep.
00:09 VanessaE this performance issue has been going on for a few weeks at most, but that tree has been there at least for a couple months
00:09 kahrl    how was this done? some abuse of liquid drawtype?
00:09 kahrl    because alpha was only added recently
00:09 VanessaE nope, use_texture_alpha + shaders, some stuff hmmmm added.
00:10 kahrl    well that's not forever :P
00:10 VanessaE ok maybe the tree's not as old as I suggest, but it's been there long before the performance problems started.
00:10 kahrl    when was that?
00:10 VanessaE a couple of weeks maybe
00:16 VanessaE perhaps less
00:16 VanessaE I get so frustrated at such things I lose track of when it happens.
00:17 kahrl    did you get a lot of 'Meshbuffer ran out of indices' at the spawn before I fixed that?
00:17 VanessaE no actually.
00:17 VanessaE I didn't.
00:17 VanessaE or only very rarely.
00:18 VanessaE in fact, whether I got those errors or not was rather random
00:19 VanessaE I'd like to speculate on what I think it is, but I can't remember the terminologu.
00:19 VanessaE terminology*
00:19 kahrl    "thing" and "stuff" always works
00:19 VanessaE where the world should be broken up into manageable chunks from irrlicht's perspective, but isn't
00:20 VanessaE scene nodes or something like that?
00:20 kahrl    mapblocks?
00:20 VanessaE no, not from MT's perspective, but from irrlicht's
00:20 kahrl    I see. Well there is only one (important) scene node
00:21 VanessaE I'm wondering if maybe we're just "overloading" irrlicht?
00:21 kahrl    no, because all irrlicht does it calling the draw function of ClientMap
00:21 VanessaE hm.
00:22 kahrl    which renders the meshbuffers of the world in some order, the same would happen if it were in separate scene nodes
00:22 VanessaE ok, so that really doesn't matter then
00:22 VanessaE so it comes down to how *much* is being rendered,.
00:22 VanessaE rather than how it's packaged/partitioned.
00:23 kahrl    it does matter a bit, that's why meshbuffers are sorted by material
00:23 VanessaE I've returned to the spawn, loaded up all of the surrounding map, and now it's rendering at ~21 fps.
00:23 kahrl    but the quantity of the geometry data is the major thing
00:23 VanessaE where earlier (half hour ago?) I was getting half of that
00:24 Exio     maybe something stacking up somewhere?
00:24 kahrl    fewer players around?
00:24 VanessaE I think so - the longer I run my client, the worse my fps gets until I am forced to restart it.
00:24 VanessaE exio ^^^
00:24 VanessaE kahrl: doubt it, but it may have something to do with meshes in general
00:26 VanessaE there's been some speculation that the entity duplication bug may be at fault.
00:26 kahrl    possible
00:27 Exio     any way to check entities around?
00:27 VanessaE fps dropping to 18 now, and I haven't moved or turned for the past 4 minutes.
00:27 Exio     the number of entities*
00:27 VanessaE Exio: there is a Lua function for that, but nothing like a server command
00:27 Exio     and debug screen?
00:27 Exio     and i mean in a visible range and so on
00:28 Exio     MC haz it! (yes, kill me!)
00:28 Exio     :P
00:28 kahrl    I'll let PA do it then :P
00:28 VanessaE ah, animated meshes, 21
00:28 VanessaE (f6, page 1)
00:29 kahrl    does f6 look weird for anyone else?
00:29 VanessaE define weird
00:29 kahrl    no newlines or word wrapping
00:29 VanessaE nope, works fine for me.
00:29 kahrl    huh.
00:30 Exio     same here kahrl
00:30 kahrl    I recently enabled freetype, does that do it?
00:31 VanessaE no idea, freetype and I don't get along :)
00:31 Exio     my build has freetype enabled; too
00:35 kahrl    indeed freetype is the cause
00:35 kahrl    well the freetype support code in minetest
00:39 VanessaE kahrl: trying your suggestion of swapping nodebox for normal, I only see roughly a 5 fps difference between the two.
00:40 VanessaE max 24 fps on the server as you saw it, averaging 31 fps in singleplayer on the same map, standing in the same spot.  All nodebox drawtypes have been replaced with "normal".
00:40 VanessaE it's varying widely though, just standing here.  31...33...34...30..
00:41 VanessaE seems to want to settle at around 32, which is ~6 fps higher than I'd get under "normal" circumstances.
00:42 VanessaE pan over a little, drops to about 27.
00:43 kahrl    I'm used to 50-60 so all of these are low for me :P
00:43 VanessaE looking at the buildings north of the spawn with the "B I" and "B C" signs on them
00:44 VanessaE solid verticies drawm, about 125k, so clearly less with all cubes than with nodeboxes, but the actual performance doesn't follow.
00:44 VanessaE 154k..
00:44 VanessaE 170k there.
00:45 VanessaE still think nodeboxes are the root cause of my performance issue? :)
00:45 Exio     what the fuck?
00:46 VanessaE this is with a view distance of 50 and 256px HDX textures.
00:46 VanessaE on an HD6870 video card, which I am sure you know should be able to pull off far more.
00:46 VanessaE Exio: what?
00:47 Exio     170k solid vertices?
00:47 VanessaE Exio: yep.
00:48 VanessaE Exio: it explodes into the 500k range when I'm on the live map/unmodified game
00:58 VanessaE confirmed.  475k vertices and ~22 fps on the live map/unmodded game with the same view distance of 50 and 256px textures.
01:10 kahrl    Anyone who gets the mesh update thread error regularly want to try something?
01:11 kahrl    https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commits/latemedia
01:11 kahrl    in particular https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/8fd1e9b56a90d46e624da2da4ad7a9d93d2a1c88
01:12 kahrl    (this should not break compatibility with any server)
01:13 kahrl    brb
02:14 VanessaE kahrl: that glitchy water seems to be restricted to irrlicht 1.8 - it isn't bugging out when the client is built against irrlicht 1.7.2.
02:16 VanessaE one thing about liquids that does need fixed is that certain angles of flowing water have the animation running in the wrong direction.
06:46 kahrl    updated my latemedia commit: https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/bd5123776a15e9f0bbff915e0b57be2747e5ac2b
06:46 kahrl    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/770
06:51 kahrl    should https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/767 be re-merged? [Fix multiple texture support for animated meshnodes]
08:51 Taoki    Hi. Can anyone suggest how I can extract a Lua table from a Lua table in the code? In the Lua function I first add if(lua_istable(L, 1)), but what if that table contains multiple tables I need to extract?
08:52 Taoki    Hmm... maybe I need to do a for loop and use if(lua_istable(L, x)) instead (where x is the looping integer)
08:53 Taoki    Still, how would I extract multiple tables from a table...
12:11 kahrl    Taoki: you should be able to see that in register_craft
12:11 kahrl    it does a lot of type-dependent, dynamic and nested table reading
12:18 PilzAdam kahrl, re F6 is all in one line with freetype: I had this issue with the "SINGLEPLAYER" thingy in the main menu when adding freetype; IIRC it was fixed by setting line wrapping to true
12:18 PilzAdam or word wrapping or whatever Irrlicht calls it
12:27 kahrl    PilzAdam: ah nice, that did it
12:28 kahrl    https://gist.github.com/kahrl/5773295
12:28 PilzAdam seems like \n only works with that if freetype is used
12:30 PilzAdam kahrl, feel free to push it
13:00 PilzAdam kahrl, https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/1f0d04b1938fb41830d5a3d8651bf9aebf74ea28
13:05 kahrl    that looks like a controversial change
13:06 kahrl    why only for the mousewheel and not 1-8 keys?
13:07 PilzAdam gameplay wise its good that you cant change to a lower pickaxe after using the faster one for all the "work"; and it also doesnt make sense that a hand can keep the crack a pickaxe has produced when releasing the left mouse button removes the crack instantly
13:08 kahrl    I personally am not opposed to it but some people might not like it
13:10 kahrl    the way it is implemented in minecraft is stupid: if you have e.g. tree trunks in your hand and punch a tree with them, and then pick up the tree blocks you broke, it resets your dig time
13:12 kahrl    however if you're only resetting it when the selected hotbar slot changes there can be "exploits"
13:12 kahrl    for example dropping an expensive pick while mining a tough to break node
13:13 PilzAdam the is most likely not able to break the rest of the node
13:13 kahrl    and then pick the pick back up -> didn't use durability
13:13 PilzAdam +hand
13:13 kahrl    oh, yeah that is true in minetest
13:14 PilzAdam the player cant really do anything against mods changing his wield item, but he is responsible for changing the selected item
13:16 PilzAdam btw, it also applies to keys changing the selected item: https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/d159842c984378b3de6ca55e26226b080c8cfaa3
13:16 PilzAdam +now
13:18 kahrl    another option would be to not fully reset, but scale the dig_time to the new dig_time_complete
13:18 kahrl    it's not realistic but might be better gameplay wise
13:19 kahrl    wait how does this work
13:20 kahrl    if you change from a fast pick to a slow one it changes dig_time_complete but not dig_time
13:20 kahrl    so you don't gain anything from doing that
13:20 kahrl    ^ (without your patch)
13:21 PilzAdam oh, true
13:25 PilzAdam what you can do is holding down left mouse button on something you cant dig with your hand and then switch to a tool and its instantly removed
13:26 PilzAdam you dont get any advantage from that but its illogical
13:26 kahrl    yeah
13:26 kahrl    perhaps set dig_time to min(dig_time, old_dig_time * new_dig_time_complete / old_dig_time_complete)
13:27 kahrl    old_dig_time = dig_time
13:29 PilzAdam if(dig_time_complete < 100000.0) dig_time += dtime; else dig_time = 0; works too
13:30 kahrl    yep
13:30 PilzAdam so you lose your dig_time if switching to a tool that cant dig the node
13:30 PilzAdam otherwise the dig_time is kept
13:31 kahrl    it still does the insta-mine thing if you switch from a wooden pick to a mese pick
13:31 kahrl    but it's not as bad
13:31 PilzAdam yep
13:32 PilzAdam there needs to be a client.setCrack(-1, nodepos); in the else block too
13:33 PilzAdam so the cracks are removed when switching to the hand
13:35 kahrl    right
13:36 PilzAdam so it looks like this: https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/7a58c1d4ca7a59f05043ff3c2caeab16c0a78a0d
13:37 PilzAdam this also fixes the bug that you can dig stone with your hand in 100000 seconds
13:37 kahrl    heh
13:39 kahrl    isn't it 10000000?
13:39 kahrl    so tape down the left mouse button for half a year :P
13:40 kahrl    I think setCrack should only be called if the dig_time was not previously 0, because otherwise doesn't this trigger a mesh update every frame?
13:41 kahrl    ah no setCrack handles that
13:43 kahrl    I think the patch is good then
13:46 kahrl    if you want to merge it go ahead :)
13:47 PilzAdam done
14:35 sfan5    can I merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/738? that bug annoys the f**k out of me
14:38 PilzAdam sfan5, if that doesnt break anything
14:38 sfan5    it shouldn't
15:17 PilzAdam kahrl, you forgot to close your freetype F6 bug issue
16:56 VanessaE about the frame rate/view distance autotuner, can someone please fix it so it's actually useful?
16:57 Calinou  not trivial, afaik
17:03 VanessaE well it's just that it adjusts way too slowly.
17:04 VanessaE like 0.1 nodes in 5 seconds or something
17:12 Calinou  2 nodes/second should do ok, probably
17:13 VanessaE that's still too slow
17:13 VanessaE more like 5 to 10/second
17:13 Calinou  or better, make adjustment speed configurable. ;)
17:13 VanessaE or do that :P
19:23 kahrl    PilzAdam: oops, thanks for doing that
19:42 kahrl    so what exactly did the latest commit break?
19:43 PilzAdam hm?
19:43 VanessaE nothing as far as I know?
21:14 Taoki    PilzAdam: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=94639#p94639
21:16 PilzAdam Taoki, oh, havent you read the pull request Nore linked?
21:16 Taoki    hmm?
21:16 Taoki    Didn't see any
21:17 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/440
21:17 Taoki    Ah. Didn't notice it
21:17 Taoki    Guess now the two have to be compared with each other :P
21:18 Taoki    But I see it works the same way, so it's good... can be used in looping functions as much
21:18 Taoki    Guess I worked for nothing, but at least there's two implementations just in case :)
21:18 PilzAdam Taoki, did you read the closing reason?
21:18 PilzAdam (last comment)
21:19 Taoki    I see it, although it doesn't make much sense
21:19 Taoki    It's not for a single mod also, many mods could use it at this point
21:19 Taoki    And I've no idea what voxel manipulator could be better. This is the best and only way I can think of
21:21 Taoki    Does that reason still stand after 4 months? Since again this wouldn't be for a single mod, nor can I imagine what voxel manipulator would work better
21:21 PilzAdam yes
21:21 Taoki    That's really bad :/
21:22 PilzAdam Im sorry that wasted your time :-/
21:22 Taoki    That's ok. I'm more sorry some decisions aren't taken over useful and logical reasons, in my opinion at least
21:32 Taoki    This is my comment on the other one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/440#issuecomment-19426484
21:34 Exio     Taoki: do you know what the "voxel manipulator" is?
21:34 Taoki    Exio: Functions to add / remove / change nodes I assume
21:46 hmmmm    Because the Lua API is not to be modified on someone's whims, it's for real solutions
21:46 Exio     ew :P
21:46 PilzAdam Taoki, if we would follow your ideas, we wouldnt have the API at all
21:46 Taoki    hmmmm: I hoped this was a real solution
21:46 Taoki    PilzAdam: I always supported the idea of the API, not really
21:47 PilzAdam "your ideas" = something simple that just has to work and nothing else
21:47 hmmmm    Taoki, do you also get upset and start accusing others of being illogical when your hack of a workaround doesn't get accepted by other FOSS projects?
21:47 hmmmm    Minetest is way easier to contribute to, FYI
21:50 Taoki    PilzAdam, hmmmm: Ok, sorry about it. I spend most of the day working on the code, and right when I post it find out there's a duplicate AND the idea is rejected. It is incorrect to complain without knowing the other idea first
21:51 Taoki    Part of it is I'm afraid the voxel manipulator idea (which includedly is something more complex and fancy) might never get done, and mods aimed at rezzing large structures will have to be stuck with the current slow and buggy way
21:51 hmmmm    Taoki, I'm sorry you wasted your time, but hurt feelings aren't a good enough reason to add things to the API
21:51 hmmmm    And whatever, I'll do the VoxelManipulator thing since it ties in to what I left off working on anyway.
21:52 Taoki    Yeah. They're not really a reason I wanted it. I mainly thought allowing list of nodes to be spawned would be a good enough system. And was kinda surprised anyone would expect more
21:52 Taoki    hmmmm: Depending on what it's meant to do, maybe I can help as well. I'm not looking to be an ass for no reason, even if I don't understand some things at first. If it's good I do wish for it to be done
21:53 hmmmm    Did you read the TODO at least?
21:54 Taoki    I read a wishlist some time ago I think
21:54 hmmmm    I have a pretty solid set of requirements for Lua MMVM
21:55 Taoki    Main question is if this system is meant to allow spawning a list of nodes in a way managed quickly by the code... as one of the features
21:56 PilzAdam Taoki, Im sorry that I didnt remembered the old pull request and pointed you earlier to it
21:56 Taoki    PilzAdam: That's ok. There are probably many of them and no one can remember all. I'm sorry I got upset over it... like I said I was surprised an idea which at least to me seemed like the best one was rejected over a distant plan that might not happen (I understand it better now though).
21:58 Taoki    I think for a project like Minetest, the codes might make sense to think over on a larger scale. In other projects I'm used to features being accepted as long as their base idea is wanted, never had issues like waiting for something to be done on larger scale
21:58 Exio     minetest is already full of a single-term things
21:59 Exio     if you want a big example about that, i think formspec is a good one
21:59 Exio     it got added only for very basic stuff
21:59 Taoki    Can't say I get why formspec is bad either :P Though I can see how it could be implemented better (eg: A full function)
21:59 Exio     Taoki: the formspec main menu
22:00 Taoki    ah
22:00 Exio     ask sapier how "painful" it is ;P
22:00 PilzAdam formspecs suck
22:00 Exio     er, not single-term, short-term i meant
22:01 Taoki    It is worth appreciating some adimns care a lot for the code to be clean and useful, I agree there...
22:01 Exio     well, as talking about terms
22:02 Exio     any "roadmap" for the minetest_game for a long-term?
22:02 PilzAdam not yet
22:02 Exio     s/for a/in the/
22:02 Exio     hm
22:02 PilzAdam if we decide for any direction for minetest_game we will get a massive shitstorm
22:03 Exio     i think as soon as sapier's menu gets a "stable" status, that won't be a problem
22:04 Exio     as saying "download a mod for that" will just be random clicking :P
22:04 PilzAdam so, we kinda have a feature freeze for minetest_game until we decide on a general direction
22:04 Taoki    PilzAdam: Isn't a direction decided yet? The artistic style looks defined enough, even if it's a bit more simple
22:05 Exio     what is the direction?
22:05 PilzAdam Taoki, nope
22:08 Taoki    Personally I think the issue with minetest_game currently is that it's still too simple. I know some prefer the trend of a simplistic and easy item set, but whenever I compare to MineCraft (NOT to copy from it :P ) I notice the immersion is much lower in MT, because there's way less to do and create
22:09 PilzAdam the difference is that MC doesnt support mods, thus they need to add into the main game
22:09 PilzAdam in Minetest we only need a good base for mods
22:10 Taoki    Yeah. Whenever I think that MC "has all those items and parameters hard-coded" I go like "weee"
22:10 PilzAdam although the game itself should be fun to play, too
22:10 Taoki    *"ewww"
22:10 Taoki    And yeah. Here I didn't mean the engine, just minetest_game
22:10 Taoki    The engine is slowly getting to as good and awesome as it can be. Or will get there once we have hardware lighting, sorta the last stop :3
22:10 PilzAdam I heard MC has a single file per node... awful
22:11 Taoki    Ouch...
22:11 Exio     ehm, no
22:11 Taoki    Sounds awful indeed. I'd go for a single file per chunk of set of cuhunks
22:11 Exio     that is what mc does afaik
22:12 Taoki    That's good then
22:12 Taoki    A file per chunk sounds best IMO
22:13 VanessaE surely he means one file per node definition?
22:13 kahrl    Taoki: that's what minetest used to do, until servers started to run out of inodes
22:14 VanessaE (which is almost as ugly)
22:14 Taoki    kahrl: How did that happen?
22:14 kahrl    1 file per mapblock + gigantic maps
22:14 Taoki    VanessaE: Ah, I thought one file per node in-world
22:14 Taoki    kahrl: Why did it reach the limit though?
22:14 Taoki    And what is the current way?
22:15 VanessaE a big-ass database file :)
22:15 kahrl    I don't know why it reached the limit, it just did
22:15 Taoki    heh. I wonder how it's working now
22:15 VanessaE kahrl: because there are max ~775 chunks per X/Y/Z axis, that's about 465 billion chunks.
22:15 kahrl    not *all* of those were created ;)
22:16 VanessaE I could see that running a fs out real damn quick
22:16 VanessaE well of course not :)
22:16 VanessaE oh hell, you said mapblock, that's even worse :P
22:17 VanessaE 3875 per axis, about 58 trillion max :)
22:17 kahrl    chunks are only used in mapgen and only recently, but nowhere else
22:19 Exio     it is only 58 trillion
22:22 Taoki    Anyway. Are there any detailed descriptions about how the Voxel Manipulator for Lua is meant to be like? What its purposes are, how it should be coded, what functions it should have, and so on. Would like to look at it and listen to its opinion
22:23 Exio     the TOdO
22:23 Exio     TODO *
22:23 Exio     http://dev.minetest.net/TODO#Lua_MapVoxelManipulator_Interface
22:31 Taoki    Ok. That sounds like a good idea yes
22:32 Taoki    I wonder: Could the code I made work as the writing part of the Voxel Manipulator? Maybe it can be integrated and used as one of the API's. Since it does mention working with array's, if I understand all well
22:33 Exio     i guess hmmmm wants the VM to be in lua like it is "in" C++
22:36 Taoki    hmmmm: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/771 If you wish to look at this code, what would need to be changed in it to properly work like the Voxel Manager system (the write part in this case). Can I adapt it into something that would work and be helpful?
22:37 Taoki    Like... it already works with writing arrays of nodes. I assume it could be used as part of the VM, maybe with some structure changes
22:38 Taoki    PilzAdam: ^
23:01 hmmmm    taoki, a whole lot
23:01 hmmmm    basically you'd need something entirely different
23:02 Taoki    hmmmm: Ehh, ok. Was hoping I could adapt the format a bit and make a read version as well. Means the idea is more different than what I understood
23:02 hmmmm    yes, we're not merely looping through setnode()
23:04 hmmmm    i mean seriously, looking at the original API for this that i shot down, "up to 15% faster" "up to 50% faster", those are jokes
23:04 hmmmm    doing this the proper way would make it more like 20x faster
23:04 Taoki    That would be even nicer :)
23:05 Taoki    Well you prolly wouldn't see anything up to 20x faster. Since it would bottleneck at least at notifying the blocks to you. Even online but also locally
23:05 Taoki    Could be a lot faster though yes
23:05 hmmmm    what?
23:05 hmmmm    anyway
23:06 hmmmm    this would be the first step in making an entire lua mapgen
23:06 Taoki    I mean, if adding a lot of nodes at once would be 20 times faster, the user would probably not really notice that much. Since it would be still slow to register all nodes then notify them
23:06 Taoki    nice
23:06 hmmmm    set to singlenode = CONTENT_IGNORE, and just do all of the node manipulation in the MMVM passed to you in on_generate()
23:06 Taoki    I still tend to agree with the mapgen being C++, BUT with Lua being able to hook a lot into it
23:07 hmmmm    this would open the door for serious experimentation
23:07 PilzAdam hmmmm, mapgen v8 ;-)
23:07 Exio     that would make it even slower than only lua if the lua side is done faster
23:07 Exio     s/faster/in a good way/
23:07 hmmmm    nothing official
23:07 hmmmm    i'm looking at paramat and the like
23:07 Exio     the overhead between Lua and C++ :P
23:07 hmmmm    they have some interesting ideas that are awesome, and it'd be great if it was faster, but it's a fringe thing and not really mainstream minetest at all
23:08 hmmmm    but there are way more uses than just this
23:08 hmmmm    i'm just saying, a complete lua mapgen would be the most extreme example of what you'd be able to do
23:08 hmmmm    (and it'd be fast too)
23:12 PilzAdam hmmmm, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=94660#p94660
23:13 PilzAdam "Upgrading from 0.4.4 to 0.4.6 has increased structure generation speed by roughly 50% which makes me happy."
23:14 hmmmm    that's all luajit though
23:14 Exio     and generate_ore
23:15 hmmmm    really don't like how people are using generate_ore so hackily like that
23:15 hmmmm    with this they'd be able to do what they really wanted to do
23:15 PilzAdam I guess "people" is me and "like that" is nether mod?
23:15 Exio     poor PilzAdam
23:15 hmmmm    your nether would be able to look like a real nether with this
23:15 Exio     ;P
23:15 PilzAdam hmmmm, sry, never saw the real nether
23:16 Exio     a nether with real terrain
23:16 hmmmm    it's basically negative 3d noise with lava seas occuring at some height point
23:16 hmmmm    nothing really special but it looks pretty nice
23:17 PilzAdam who said that it should be negative 3d noise?
23:17 hmmmm    minecraft
23:17 Exio     and mc's nether looks very nice
23:17 PilzAdam the current nether mod is what I think a nether should look like
23:18 PilzAdam though to break nodes in a very small cave
23:18 Exio     it doesn't look so cool
23:18 PilzAdam it has to be annoying
23:18 Exio     why?
23:19 PilzAdam well, you are not in heaven ;-)
23:19 Exio     that doesn't mean it needs to be annoying
23:45 Taoki    Someone please tell me the new snow in minetest_game also spawns naturally :D (though I doubt that's been coded since I assume it requires mapgen changes)
23:46 VanessaE not in mgv6.
23:47 Taoki    ok. Any mapgen has it? Like ifdev
23:47 Taoki    erm, indev
23:49 hmmmm    v7
23:49 hmmmm    I needed it for biomes with snow
23:50 Taoki    Awesome. Even more eager to try v7 now :)
23:50 Taoki    But I assume it's not ready enough yet, right?
23:50 hmmmm    it's not
23:51 Taoki    What sort of scary world do I get if I enable it in master? :P
23:51 VanessaE Taoki: lava where water should be, TNT where grass should be.... ;)
23:52 Taoki    :)
23:52 Taoki    That would probably be called "mapgen-hardcore"
23:55 VanessaE Taoki: and liquid concrete ( http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=86565 ) where stone should be
23:55 VanessaE with floating entities that randomly harden into coal, iron, etc.
23:55 VanessaE THAT would be hardcore :D