Time Nick Message 05:39 sfan5 can i merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/699 ? 06:16 celeron55 sfan5: i think it wasn't really agreed that the protocol is good 06:18 celeron55 (and IMO it isn't) 12:12 sfan5 can i merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/699 ? 12:13 PilzAdam if it works 12:18 sfan5 it does 12:18 sfan5 its really awesome 12:20 kahrl sfan5: have you seen celeron's response? 12:20 Calinou +1 12:20 sfan5 kahrl: no.. 12:21 kahrl check the logs 12:21 sfan5 hmm.. 12:21 Calinou while we're about player moddability, it would be nice if we could choose max health per-player :P 12:22 sfan5 kahrl: what about adding an extra packet type for that? 12:22 kahrl guess that can be done 12:22 kahrl just seemed like a waste to me to have 5 messages just for hud 12:23 kahrl but message IDs are 16 bit so it really doesn't matter 12:23 sfan5 yeah 12:23 sfan5 if you'd add that I could merge it 12:23 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/409 12:23 Calinou can this be merged? 12:23 Calinou or are glitch ladders part of the game? 12:24 PilzAdam I already wanted this to be merged, but people were against it 12:24 kahrl sfan5: not sure if that is what celeron meant 12:24 kahrl I thought he was talking about the specificness of the protocol 12:25 Calinou PilzAdam: well, you can merge it, on top of that, speedhack prevention makes glitch ladders much harder to use if you don't have fast privilege 12:25 PilzAdam so, sfan5, if you dont merge it now then Id like to update the default controls in README.txt 12:25 sfan5 PilzAdam: you can do that 12:31 kahrl hmm I'm getting a weird crash in the main menu (current master) 12:32 kahrl if you start the game with selected_mainmenu_tab = 2, then switch to the singleplayer tab it crashed - known bug? 12:32 sfan5 a case for gdb 12:32 PilzAdam reproduceable 12:33 VanessaE I've experienced that crash too 12:33 kahrl actually you can switch to any other tab 12:33 VanessaE couldn't figure out a pattern to it though 12:33 kahrl but it has to start on tab 2 12:34 VanessaE definitely don't merge the 'glitch' ladder fix. 12:37 celeron55 kahrl: i think it shouldn't be in the same packet, as the existing packet is clearly designed as one purpose per packet 12:37 celeron55 just add a new packet that eg. sets an enumed hud integer parameter or something 12:38 celeron55 or a list of such parameters 12:38 celeron55 whatever 12:39 celeron55 keep in mind that eg. the player position is updated 10 times a second; sending 1 set-up thing like that is equal to doing nothing 12:39 celeron55 (as it usually isn't even used) 12:41 PilzAdam https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/5ea41686addb68ca1124aa0222d82788101e0dd1 12:41 PilzAdam anything to add/change? 12:41 kahrl hmm 12:42 kahrl it felt so similar to a HUD flag, with the exception that it can take on a wider range of values than true/false 12:42 kahrl maybe the lua api should be like player:hud_set_flags({hotbar_itemcount=9}) 12:43 VanessaE wairt 12:43 VanessaE wait. 12:44 VanessaE it doesn't make any sense to write "Esc: pause menu" 12:44 VanessaE you're already there if you're seeing that message 12:44 VanessaE er, "this menu" (looked at the wrong file) 12:44 PilzAdam yea 12:45 PilzAdam do we want a complete list there? 12:45 VanessaE that's just a *little* redundant I'd say :) 12:45 PilzAdam or just the basic things like I currently have it? 12:45 kahrl the message is accurate. if you press Esc it pauses the menu 12:45 VanessaE just the basics that you have now; why'd you drop the "0...9" reference? 12:46 PilzAdam to not bloat it 12:46 PilzAdam it was also wrong 12:47 VanessaE true, it should have read 1-8. 12:47 VanessaE still, it's okay to drop it I guess 12:47 kahrl well, if you set hotbar_itemcount to 10 it accepts 0-9 12:47 PilzAdam its for pro players only, and they are able to find out about it without it being added there :-) 12:48 VanessaE one thing that is sorely needed on that menu is better formatting. All the crap on the left, for example/. 12:48 VanessaE Why is most of that stuff even written there of all places? 12:48 VanessaE that's debug info and belongs in the log 12:49 celeron55 it's there because it was the only menu in the whole game for some months at the beginning 12:49 celeron55 8) 12:49 celeron55 = because random 12:49 VanessaE heh 12:49 smoke_fumus where can i drop suggestion? 12:49 PilzAdam what to put there instead? 12:49 VanessaE why am I not surprised ;) 12:49 PilzAdam smoke_fumus, forums? 12:50 VanessaE PilzAdam: nothing - leave it blank, or use it for more keybindings 12:50 smoke_fumus :| can i just tell it here to example? 12:50 VanessaE smoke_fumus: if you leave your suggestion here, it will get lost 12:50 smoke_fumus so i get it no core developers are here atm 12:50 PilzAdam smoke_fumus, the risk chance that you spam this channel with useless stuff is too high, sry :- 12:50 PilzAdam -risk 12:51 PilzAdam +/ 12:51 VanessaE no, the core devs are working on other stuff right now, so your suggestion would literally get misplaced. on the forum, there's a record of it that can be referred to later. 12:51 smoke_fumus okay i'll type it here, brainstorm and then post formed on forums 12:51 PilzAdam Ill push that update controls for now 12:52 PilzAdam suggestion for a redesigned pause menu are welcome 12:52 VanessaE PilzAdam: I'll see if I can throw together a good mockup later 12:52 kahrl I think the neatest place for the debug info would be a chat command 12:52 smoke_fumus :D and its not useless actually. i just were looking at current minetest, back to back with 0.2~, and noticed that torches are still flat. there are 2 ways make them 3d. 1 is obv. minecraft way of single pixel row. another one is more usable - make them volume voxels too 12:53 smoke_fumus if anyone played and modded red alert 2/C&C tiberian sun it should be fammiliar 12:53 kahrl that is intercepted client side, not sent to the server 12:53 VanessaE smoke_fumus: there are already mods that solve that issue 12:53 PilzAdam smoke_fumus, there are several 3D torch mods out there 12:53 smoke_fumus are they add 1 pixel layer torches or true 3d voxel ones? 12:54 PilzAdam they use nodeboxes 12:54 smoke_fumus PilzAdam: um. what's a nodebox? 12:55 PilzAdam basically the latter one 12:55 PilzAdam oh, and this is exactly the kind of discussion that doesnt belong in this channel 12:55 PilzAdam #minetest is for this 12:55 PilzAdam (Im there too) 13:14 kahrl well the main menu crash happens in guiMainMenu.cpp:1145 13:15 kahrl there's two different widgets that have the id GUI_ID_WORLD_LISTBOX 13:16 kahrl the one in the singleplayer tab and the one in the advanced tab 13:17 kahrl but m_world_indices is only filled when on the singleplayer tab, as far as I understand; but when you switch away from the advanced tab it tries to read from it 13:19 kahrl I think the proper fix would be to also filter the worlds by game on the advanced tab, not only on the singleplayer tab 13:19 PilzAdam I think the advanced tab should stay as it is 13:20 VanessaE I agree with kahrl here actually. 13:20 VanessaE as long as those filter buttons are displayed on every tab, they should be used where possible. 13:20 VanessaE (and appropriate) 13:21 PilzAdam its good that you can get a complete world list in the advanced tab currently 13:21 PilzAdam and the game buttons should be only visible in the Singleplayer tab 13:21 VanessaE PilzAdam: agreed. 13:22 kahrl are people actually using the advanced tab? other than ^ 13:22 VanessaE well, display them in Singleplayer and Advanced tabs 13:22 VanessaE but nowhere else 13:22 PilzAdam kahrl, c55 seems to have strong feelings about it 13:22 VanessaE kahrl: I doubt many people seriously use that feature that aren't already running the standalone server 13:23 PilzAdam its basically the old format from 0.3 and it should stay as it is 13:24 PilzAdam it basically contains everything from Single- and Multiplayer combined 13:24 kahrl yeah but that's kind of redundant isn't it? 13:24 VanessaE honestly, the Advanced tab is a little confusing 13:24 VanessaE get rid of it. 13:24 VanessaE encourage users to just run the standalone server if they need it. 13:24 VanessaE otherwise, use the other tabs 13:25 PilzAdam no, its the advanced tab for advanced users 13:25 hmmmm about the HUD set hotbar count thing 13:25 VanessaE yeah but the only function it has there that the othet tabs don't is the ability to start a dedicated (if temporary)server 13:25 VanessaE hmmmm: sounds good to me. 13:25 hmmmm i'm thinking about it, and maybe it'd be a good idea to reserve hud ID -2 for the builtin hotbar or something 13:26 hmmmm that way we have complete control over the builtin hud without adding more packets or anything like that 13:26 hmmmm and you can modify the item count through the existing hud api 13:26 VanessaE (damn it, I need a new brain. misread AGAIN) 13:26 hmmmm hud api interface* to be specific 13:26 hmmmm you'd still need to make an exception when looking it up that it's the builtin itembar 13:27 hmmmm gotta go man, school 13:27 hmmmm later 13:27 VanessaE cya 13:27 kahrl hmmmm: does the luahud support hotbars with a selection frame for the selected item? 13:28 kahrl well, answer after school :) 13:31 kaeza kaeza, yes 13:31 kaeza derp 13:31 kaeza kahrl, ^ 13:31 VanessaE lol 13:31 kaeza use the `item' field 13:31 * kaeza just pinged himself :| 13:31 kahrl oh, ok 13:32 * VanessaE hands kaeza a box of fresh pings. 13:32 kahrl that kind of forces gamemodes with hotbar_itemcount != 8 to have a laggy hotbar though 13:33 PilzAdam doesnt the client predict it somehow? 13:33 kahrl don't think so 13:33 kaeza one of my original ideas for the HUD additions was to add functions to modify the builtin HUD 13:33 kaeza celeron didn't like it tho' 13:35 kaeza but since you're adding hotbar_itemcount, why not modify the builtin hotbar when it is set to a value? 13:35 kahrl kaeza: re changing builtin hud, probably better in the long run to allow to remake the builtin hud entirely from lua 13:35 kaeza I see no reason to set itemcount to 10 and show 8 items in the hotbar 13:36 kahrl with sufficient prediction to make it not laggy 13:36 VanessaE speaking of prediction, is there any reason we don't do that with crafting, by the way? 13:36 kahrl what do you mean? if itemcount is 10 it shows 10 items 13:37 kaeza hmm... this is just a silly (and prolly hacky) idea, but why not reuse player:hud_change() ? 13:37 kahrl VanessaE: could be done but client doesn't have the craft definitions currently 13:37 PilzAdam I generally think we need more prediction 13:38 PilzAdam clients notice too much lag 13:38 kaeza player:hud_change("builtin_healthbar", "position", {x=1,y=0}) 13:38 kaeza ...etc 13:38 VanessaE kahrl: that needs changed in the near future 13:38 kaeza hmm... forget about it... IDs are ints not strings 13:38 VanessaE probably before 0.4.7 goes out 13:39 kahrl kaeza: that's what hmmmm meant by reserving an ID 13:39 kahrl not sure if he meant for hud_change or only for hud_remove 13:40 kahrl probably hud_change as hud_set_flags does the other thing already 13:41 kahrl VanessaE: why? 13:41 VanessaE kahrl: ever played on a laggy server? Having your attempts to craft something rejected before you even get the whole recipe in place is VERY frustrating. 13:42 VanessaE place item..place item...oops! everything went back to the inventory 13:42 VanessaE repeat until the lag ends. 13:42 kahrl but would prediction fix that? 13:43 kahrl the server would just reset your inventory until before you crafted 13:43 VanessaE it couls help anyway 13:43 VanessaE could* 13:44 VanessaE the idea is to accept or reject the craft at all - instead everything stays in the crafting grid until the server allows it. 13:44 VanessaE that way the inventory doesn't have to be reset. 13:45 VanessaE there's the corner case of someone mining a bunch of crap while their crafting grid is loaded up, but I dunno what to do abotu that 13:45 VanessaE about* 13:45 VanessaE er, the idea is to *not accept* 13:45 kahrl I haven't really played on servers that reset your inventory so I can't relate 13:45 VanessaE trust me, it's annoying. 13:45 kahrl are any of those up? 13:46 VanessaE mine tends to do that when it lags. 13:46 VanessaE afaik all servers do that though. 13:57 VanessaE at any rate, PilzAdam is right - the client needs to do a lot more prediction, anywhere that it can imho. 14:00 RealBadAngel especially regarding entities 14:00 RealBadAngel hi all 14:01 VanessaE hey RBA 14:02 RealBadAngel more i think about sky, more basic stuff pops up 14:03 sfan5 hi RBA 14:03 VanessaE like what? 14:03 RealBadAngel time and sun position 14:03 PilzAdam kahrl, also starting a (local) game in Advanced tab crashes the game 14:04 RealBadAngel in the future we will need to know exact sky position 14:04 RealBadAngel i will need it sooner tho ;) 14:05 RealBadAngel i'd like to put there implementation of fiat_lux.py 14:05 RealBadAngel script that calculates sun position on the sphere with pos and time 14:06 RealBadAngel later on we will have position for sun (light source) 14:07 RealBadAngel and maybe ability to simulate seasons and geographical regions 14:08 RealBadAngel anybody like the idea? 14:33 VanessaE seasons? I dunno. geographical regions? sure, if you just mean north-south 14:35 PilzAdam it could be based on the biome you are in? e.g. high sun in desert, low sun in snow biome? 14:36 VanessaE I dunno, deserts/snow biomes are way too small for that to look right though 14:37 VanessaE I mean, you cross from grass->desert, the sun suddenly jumps way up high into the sky? no 14:37 kahrl you could make the world a torus and calculate the solar irradiation at any point of the surface based on that 14:39 VanessaE that would work, but getting the world to render that way when you cross from -31k to +31k is the issue then 14:39 VanessaE no one seems to want to approach that issue :) 14:40 kahrl I could imagine doing the rendering part... but how would the mapgen ensure that there are no edges? 14:40 VanessaE no clue 14:41 VanessaE linear interpolation of the last 20m or so on each side? 14:41 RealBadAngel sun would behave the same on both world edges 14:41 sfan5 thexyz: 4aiman posts many "Ban me!" topics in General Discussion 14:41 kahrl anyway my suggestion wasn't really serious. Biomes created that way would be hella boring 14:41 PilzAdam sfan5, do not ban him 14:42 sfan5 PilzAdam: why? 14:42 PilzAdam troll 14:42 VanessaE he already asked me in PM to ban him. I refused. 14:42 sfan5 i'll just tempban him for 1 day 14:42 RealBadAngel demand $10 donation for banning 14:42 thexyz → #minetest 14:44 RealBadAngel nothing is really free, even one click causes mice to dye sooner. 14:44 RealBadAngel *die 14:53 kahrl I thought those were hamsters that powered the minetest.net server, not mice 14:54 celeron55 well, forum.minetest.net and www.minetest.net are different servers; thexyz uses mice, i use hamsters 15:44 hmmmm [09:42 AM] but would prediction fix that? definitely 15:44 hmmmm i have only played multiplayer minetest a couple times, but i can say that it is the most annoying thing ever 15:44 hmmmm in fact, it's almost frustrating enough to make me not want to play it at all 15:45 hmmmm let's serialize the craftdefs and send those to players 15:45 hmmmm the results of which are sent to the server for validation 15:45 VanessaE agreed 15:46 hmmmm as for the builtin hud, this is a bit of a reason why i wanted to generalize things 15:46 hmmmm everybody that isn't me have been adding exceptions for "builtin" things to the _interface_ 15:46 hmmmm to the lua api and the protocol 15:47 hmmmm if you have a special ID reserved for the builtin items, then you'd be able to modify them just like any other item (except not remove, yet) 15:48 kaeza > everybody that isn't me <-- /me too 15:48 hmmmm and what's more is, if in the future we somehow get client-side lua, then those builtin hud elements don't need to be builtin anymore and we can simply change the macros for builtin IDs from -2 to say, 0, as in the element that was added first 15:49 hmmmm kaeza, hud_set_builtin_visible? :/ 15:51 kaeza hmmmm, player:hud_change(-1, "visible", true) 15:52 kaeza or: player:hud_change(HUD_BUILTIN_HOTBAR, "visible", true) 15:52 kaeza (HUD_BUILTIN_HOTBAR defined in default) 15:53 hmmmm -1 is reserved for an invalid hud id 15:53 kaeza that was an example 15:54 PilzAdam a bad one 15:54 kaeza meh 15:54 hmmmm that's something that could be done 15:54 hmmmm and it wouldn't break any protocol 16:18 celeron55 a reminder: in my opinion 0.4.7 should be released quite soon 16:19 celeron55 also, IMO it should have already been released because of bugs 16:20 celeron55 i think a fixed release schedule would help with everyone just posponing releases infinitely 16:20 celeron55 but otoh, i am not interested in enforcing such 16:20 celeron55 postponing* 16:29 hmmmm i thought i told people to release the fixed 0.4.6 16:29 hmmmm anyway, lesson learned, we are NOT doing any half-length feature freezes anymore 16:30 celeron55 a fixed 0.4.6 is 0.4.7 16:30 celeron55 we do not do any half-patch releases 16:30 celeron55 the last number is the patch number and it is always increased 16:31 celeron55 that is why locking features to a certain n.n.x is dumb 16:31 hmmmm if you really want to consider the last version digit as the patch, then minetest should be way past what it is right now 16:32 celeron55 one can think of that in many ways 16:33 celeron55 i think we could do the same as linux did and just say it's 1.0.0 because development seems to roll on at a steady pace without incompatible rework going on in a long time 16:33 hmmmm then what's with 0.4.4-d1? 16:33 celeron55 hmmmm: it isn't a release 16:33 hmmmm meh whatever 16:33 celeron55 it was just a way to make it easier to differentiate certain builds with many features from the previous ones because it was likely to cause confusion 16:34 celeron55 or something like that 16:36 celeron55 hmmmm: have you considered my requests for having a written plan for the minetest engine for roughly a year ahead or so? 16:38 hmmmm yes i have 16:38 hmmmm but it's not happening immediately 16:38 hmmmm i have a _lot_ of other things to write first 16:38 hmmmm i'll be able to get back into the groove of minetest in about two weeks 16:45 celeron55 it should clear up the uncertainty somewhat (unless your plan is widely disagreed on, in which case we do need to do something about it) 16:48 Jordach hmmmm, when did minetest become vinyl 16:52 Calinou since ponies invaded this game 16:55 BlockMen the spawn point is fixed, right (not spawing in the air)? 16:55 Exio should be 16:56 BlockMen hmm, i spawned inside of a tree node yesterday 16:56 BlockMen (just one time, but i thought you want know) 17:21 rubenwardy "invalid startposIndex: (5,7,6)Realpos: (74,13,-611) 17:21 rubenwardy when using minetest.env:find_path 17:23 rubenwardy woops 17:42 RealBadAngel celeron55, its good to have a plan :) i know exactly what i will be coding next few weeks 17:43 Jordach +bug fixes 17:43 RealBadAngel those too 17:43 RealBadAngel i mean THE plan 17:45 RealBadAngel i want to learn everything bout meshes (so, im learnin irrlicht, blender, and other weird stuff that pops up_ 17:46 RealBadAngel also the shaders 17:47 RealBadAngel i learned how they work already