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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-04-19

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Time Nick Message
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09:31 celeron55 http://c55.me/blog/?p=1465#comment-21107
09:32 celeron55 what are these kinds of people thinking? like, i guess nothing at all
09:32 celeron55 (the last comment)
09:35 Calinou lol
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13:12 RealBadAngel hi all
13:13 RealBadAngel hmmmm, shall i pull the code for main menu music (without the tune, just the code) ?
13:14 PilzAdam where is the code?
13:16 RealBadAngel i can pull it if we agree that folder for sounds of all kinds will be /sounds
13:17 RealBadAngel old test code used /testsounds folder
13:17 PilzAdam I would prefer client/sounds/
13:17 RealBadAngel /clinent/sounds in the main tree?
13:18 PilzAdam hm
13:18 RealBadAngel imho not necesary and not consistent
13:18 RealBadAngel we do already have /textures
13:18 PilzAdam well, maybe client/sounds isnt good
13:19 RealBadAngel so /sounds sounds logic ;)
13:20 RealBadAngel so agree to use /sounds ?
13:21 PilzAdam we should move all the folders in client/ into the root of directory of client
13:21 PilzAdam *minetest
13:21 sfan5 oh no
13:21 sfan5 that'll create a folder mess
13:22 Exio ? what
13:22 Exio i'd prefer client/sounds and client/textures instead
13:22 PilzAdam c55 and kahrl had the intention to not split everything into server/ and client/
13:23 RealBadAngel we do already have /textures folder
13:23 RealBadAngel /sounds shall be on the same level imho
13:25 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, code is here: https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/ae60aa55f1421966f4a0b03ca2b5e0ca262091aa
13:26 PilzAdam why do you change the camera angle there?
13:28 PilzAdam and you just copy the GameOnDemandSoundFetcher from game.cpp?
13:41 RealBadAngel a) this is unrelated change,its made to fit certain backround image
13:41 RealBadAngel b) yes, i need to move the code to sound.h propably
13:41 RealBadAngel and modify both game.cpp and main.cpp
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13:44 RealBadAngel acording to a). download whole tree, compile and see the menu
13:46 Exio RealBadAngel: learn to use branches
13:46 Exio please
13:46 RealBadAngel im using branches for technic
13:46 RealBadAngel branches handling sucks big time
13:47 RealBadAngel sorry, but no
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13:50 RealBadAngel all those problems with squashing, rebasing, cherry picking (wtf?) and all related
13:51 RealBadAngel github is shit
13:51 RealBadAngel simple diff is way better and more usable
13:51 Exio github is just a "git" interface
13:51 Exio and i suck at git, but it is very useful
13:52 RealBadAngel as uploading space, yes
13:52 RealBadAngel then suck while downloading
13:52 RealBadAngel sorry git, im not your fan at all
13:52 Exio switch to svn
13:55 RealBadAngel dont you guys have enough with renaming downloaded folder again and again?
13:56 RealBadAngel github fails at even such simple thing
13:56 Exio ?
13:57 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, normally you clone and pull
13:57 RealBadAngel adding extra content to folders name
13:57 PilzAdam github is only a git repo hosting service
13:57 Exio the basic usage what i do to it, git makes the stuff way easier
13:58 RealBadAngel git makes stuff way more complicated as it should be
13:58 Exio you don't need to rename dirs, you can have git log, git status, branches, etc
13:58 Exio RealBadAngel: i'd say it makes the stuff simpler
13:58 RealBadAngel exio, try to download any mod
13:58 Exio ? and
13:58 Exio did, with git and stuff
13:58 RealBadAngel and see forums, the mod is not working
13:58 Exio git clone
13:59 Exio i don't understand your problem, really
13:59 RealBadAngel git feels like it have to add -master to folders name
13:59 Exio in any case, can we move this to #mt?
13:59 RealBadAngel or some other random shit
13:59 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, that is not git
13:59 PilzAdam thats github
13:59 Exio that is the github download service what is not related to git
13:59 Exio and how you download a git repo is..
13:59 PilzAdam this shows me that you dont understand git
14:00 Exio git clone http://whatever.server/repository
14:00 Exio or https, or git, or w/e
14:00 RealBadAngel yup, super user friendly, especially for newbie players
14:00 RealBadAngel teach them git
14:01 RealBadAngel are you nuts/
14:01 Exio are you a newbie player?
14:01 Exio ok
14:01 Exio git is not for normal-players, is for developing
14:01 RealBadAngel this is hardcore system, not even close to user friendly
14:01 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, just because you dont understand it doesnt mean git is shit
14:01 RealBadAngel I DO UNDERSTAND IT
14:01 RealBadAngel and DONT LIKE IT
14:01 RealBadAngel thats a difference
14:02 PilzAdam then why do you say that git adds -master to downloads?
14:02 RealBadAngel github pages download
14:02 RealBadAngel i shall say
14:03 Exio any real comment about git now?
14:03 Exio it makes the life easier for the people who wants to develop
14:03 RealBadAngel im developin and git makes my life complicated
14:04 Exio ok
14:04 RealBadAngel i want to post diff file
14:04 RealBadAngel thats all
14:04 Exio git push
14:04 RealBadAngel AND DONT USE cli
14:05 RealBadAngel its 21st century for christ sake
14:06 Ristovski joined #minetest-dev
14:06 RealBadAngel i just want to compare two folders, clean and modified, produce diff, pull, forget
14:06 Ristovski anyone know why I'm getting this at linking? "In function `irr::video::CImageLoaderPng::loadImage(irr::io::IReadFile*) const': (.text+0x1c0): undefined reference to `png_set_gray_1_2_4_to_8'"
14:06 Exio git diff
14:06 Ristovski I have the dev packages
14:07 Ristovski debian wheezy x64 btw, if there is anyone actually using linux here...
14:08 RealBadAngel Ristovski, looks like some problem with Irrlicht libraries
14:08 Ristovski RealBadAngel: yeah, i have both the normal and dev irrlicht packages tho
14:08 PilzAdam Ristovski, everyone here uses Linux
14:08 Ristovski PilzAdam: oh, nice
14:08 PilzAdam Ristovski, wich version of Irrlicht
14:09 Ristovski lemme check
14:09 Ristovski 1.7 seems like
14:09 RealBadAngel try 1.7.3 or 1.8
14:09 PilzAdam 1.8 is slower than 1.7.3
14:10 RealBadAngel i havent noticed that
14:10 Ristovski is the git version fine?
14:10 Ristovski I mean, svn/git/hg w/e they use
14:10 RealBadAngel i havent tested it
14:10 RealBadAngel using 1.8 here
14:11 RealBadAngel and 1.7.3 before
14:11 PilzAdam Ristovski, it should work with the Irrlicht version in the debian packages
14:11 Ristovski PilzAdam: well, it doesnt, im now uninstalling those and gonna compile irrlicht from source
14:12 RealBadAngel whats your distro?
14:12 RealBadAngel ah
14:12 RealBadAngel nvm
14:12 Ristovski :P
14:12 Ristovski btw, I hope it doesnt matter what DE I use
14:12 Ristovski i had some problems with other games where it did
14:13 iqualfragile btw: minetest actualy runs qute well on nouveau
14:13 Exio works for me in debian6
14:13 Ristovski hmm, probably gonna get high FPS since I use AwesomeWM
14:14 Ristovski RealBadAngel: hmm, how big is the source of irrlicht?
14:15 Ristovski gettin ~100kb/s, damn ISP
14:15 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, your problem with git is probably that you dont want to use CLI
14:15 PilzAdam wich is a typical windows users behaviour
14:15 RealBadAngel 22.6mb for 1.8
14:15 Ristovski ok
14:16 Ristovski RealBadAngel: whats the average FPS people get?
14:16 PilzAdam Ristovski, depends on the hardware
14:16 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, typical widnows user behaviour... lol, i dont even have windows installed :P
14:16 Ristovski PilzAdam: hmm, I mean, I can run other games at around 60
14:17 PilzAdam 60 FPS is not hard to get
14:17 PilzAdam I get ~ 250
14:17 RealBadAngel on my hardware (quite old and slowed down) i do get 40-50fps with 128x texture pack and shitload of mods
14:18 RealBadAngel dual core 1,8ghz with 4gb of ram
14:18 RealBadAngel and some budget radeon
14:18 Ristovski RealBadAngel: Oh, seems like we have the same hardware
14:18 Ristovski i just have 2.1GhZ
14:19 RealBadAngel this was 2.1
14:19 Ristovski oh
14:19 RealBadAngel i slowed the machine down, added water cooling
14:19 Exio dual core?
14:19 Ristovski also, lol @ mojang adding horses
14:19 RealBadAngel and its working 24/7
14:19 Exio intel, amd, what the heck?
14:19 Ristovski mine is dual core too btw
14:19 RealBadAngel i never turn off my box
14:19 Ristovski also, amd Athlon x64 Dual Core M320 @ 2.10GhZ
14:20 RealBadAngel mine is intel
14:20 Ristovski amd's are good for making toasters and ovens
14:20 RealBadAngel hehe
14:20 Ristovski you get ~80C with < 10V :D
14:21 RealBadAngel notice i underclocked it, not overclocked
14:21 Exio my cpu is at 30C like
14:21 Ristovski yeah
14:21 Exio bulldozer 6100
14:21 RealBadAngel it helps for stability, power usage and lifetime
14:21 Ristovski my CPU is at 72C now, highest I got it to was 85C
14:21 Exio laptop?
14:21 RealBadAngel mine is on average 30def
14:21 RealBadAngel deg
14:21 PilzAdam ok, thats enough offtopic for now
14:21 Ristovski yeah, laptop
14:23 Ristovski is lua used for config?
14:23 RealBadAngel no
14:23 Ristovski then what for
14:23 Ristovski scripting?
14:23 RealBadAngel for mods
14:23 Ristovski oh, ok
14:23 RealBadAngel ingame scripting
14:24 Ristovski well.. better than python
14:24 RealBadAngel lately we got there LuaJIT
14:25 RealBadAngel you may want to install this library too when you will compile the game
14:25 PilzAdam Ristovski, Lua mods basically define the content of the game
14:26 Ristovski oh, ok
14:26 RealBadAngel it makes all mods run at least 2x faster
14:26 PilzAdam i.e. nodes, tools, textures and behaviour of them
14:26 Ristovski RealBadAngel: i think I already have that
14:26 Ristovski actually.. not in repos
14:27 RealBadAngel when you will compile, output will say if its found or not
14:27 RealBadAngel hold on then
14:27 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, nope, not when you are compiling but when you run cmake
14:27 RealBadAngel http://luajit.org/download/LuaJIT-2.0.1.tar.gz
14:27 Ristovski lol, Irrlicht still downloading
14:27 RealBadAngel unpack, enter /src then make, make install
14:28 Ristovski no need, I did it make in root dir and it works
14:28 Ristovski did make*
14:28 RealBadAngel not opening the door but using key to open the door...
14:29 RealBadAngel do you have to be such sarcastic?
14:29 Ristovski lol
14:29 Ristovski also, whoops
14:30 Ristovski RealBadAngel: the svn of irrlicht downloaded like all branches/releases
14:30 RealBadAngel rotfl
14:30 RealBadAngel lemme copy the link then
14:30 RealBadAngel http://downloads.sourceforge.net/irrlicht/irrlicht-1.8.zip
14:31 Ristovski hmm, thanks
14:31 RealBadAngel this is definitely just 22,6mb and dev with sources
14:31 Ristovski I knew it was taking too long for just 20mb
14:32 Ristovski RealBadAngel: hmm, wheres the makefile
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14:33 Ristovski got it
14:33 RealBadAngel /source/irrlicht
14:35 Ristovski why does it say to NODEBUG=1 when it actually adds -D_DEBUG
14:36 RealBadAngel that i dont know
14:36 RealBadAngel hmmmm, are you around?
14:39 Ristovski RealBadAngel: it errors out on "make install"
14:39 Ristovski "cp: cannot stat `../../lib/Linux/libIrrlicht.so.1.8.0': No such file or directory"
14:40 RealBadAngel lib shall land in /us/local/lib
14:41 RealBadAngel *usr
14:41 Ristovski done
14:43 RealBadAngel navigate there and check if you have there libirrlicht.so.1.8.0 and libirrlicht.a
14:43 RealBadAngel with capital I for Irrlicht
14:46 Ristovski libirlicht.a is there
14:46 Ristovski linirrlicht.so isnt D:
14:46 Ristovski uhh, lib*
14:46 RealBadAngel .a is enough
14:46 RealBadAngel game will use it
14:46 Ristovski ok
14:47 RealBadAngel so try to compile the game now
14:48 Ristovski arrghh
14:48 Ristovski "No rule to make target `/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libIrrlicht.a', needed by `bin/minetest'.  Stop."
14:49 Ristovski hmm, what now
14:49 Ristovski lemme re-run cmake .
14:54 PilzAdam remove CMakeCache.txt and re-run cmake
14:55 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, so what about the folder?
14:56 PilzAdam the sound folder?
14:57 RealBadAngel yup
14:58 PilzAdam didnt I already said that it should go into the root directory of minetest?
14:58 RealBadAngel named "sounds"
14:58 RealBadAngel yes?
14:58 PilzAdam and both, $path_share and $path_usr
14:59 PilzAdam and change path_user first, so things in ~/.minetest/sounds/ can override globally installed sounds
14:59 PilzAdam *check
14:59 RealBadAngel that was supposed to work different way
14:59 RealBadAngel one /sounds folder
14:59 RealBadAngel that mods can override
15:00 RealBadAngel not different installs
15:00 PilzAdam were do you want to put that one sound folder? $path_share or $path_user
15:00 RealBadAngel so, if mod will redefine sound file it will be used instead of client side stored one
15:00 RealBadAngel and thus will be sent by server
15:01 RealBadAngel same place as /textures
15:01 Ristovski RealBadAngel: pm
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15:05 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, idea was to put there all defaults sounds
15:05 RealBadAngel so server wont have to send them to client
15:05 PilzAdam can you just answer my question?
15:05 RealBadAngel but a mod can decide to override it and use different sound
15:06 RealBadAngel std::string base = porting::path_share + DIR_DELIM + "sounds";
15:06 RealBadAngel here
15:06 PilzAdam so, for your menu sound it would be in /usr/share/minetest/sounds
15:07 PilzAdam users cant override the default menu sound then
15:07 RealBadAngel ehhh
15:07 RealBadAngel if mod defines the sound
15:07 RealBadAngel it is first searched in mods directory
15:07 RealBadAngel if found then used
15:08 RealBadAngel last instance is that dir
15:08 RealBadAngel dont you get it?
15:08 PilzAdam but your code doesnt do that
15:09 RealBadAngel ofc it fuckin does it
15:09 RealBadAngel searching /sounds is the last instance in lookin for sound file
15:10 RealBadAngel if mod defined the use of sound file it is searched in mods files first
15:10 RealBadAngel if not found then in /sounds
15:11 RealBadAngel so, point is default mods define usage of sounds stored already in /sounds
15:11 RealBadAngel and those will be default ones
15:11 PilzAdam it search main_menu.ogg only in $path_share/sounds
15:11 RealBadAngel if mod will supply own sound it will be used in the first place
15:11 PilzAdam it doesnt even know about mods when searching main_menu.ogg
15:12 PilzAdam I just tested it
15:12 PilzAdam $path_share/sounds/main_menu.ogg is the only place were it looks for the main menu sound
15:12 RealBadAngel ofc
15:13 RealBadAngel because its the only place it can be stored
15:13 RealBadAngel now take any sound of default mods
15:13 PilzAdam it would be better to check both, $path_user/sounds and $path_share/sounds, so users can have custome client stored sounds
15:13 RealBadAngel and move them to this folder
15:14 RealBadAngel like walkin sounds, breaking glass etc
15:14 RealBadAngel they will become local
15:14 RealBadAngel not being sent by server
15:15 RealBadAngel and code will find them
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15:17 PilzAdam yes, but users should be able to save sounds in the client like that without messing arround in $path_share
15:18 RealBadAngel what messing?
15:18 RealBadAngel /sounds/ then store files there
15:19 PilzAdam in a globally installed minetest $path_share is at /usr/share/minetest/ and you need to be root to modify it
15:19 RealBadAngel you are messing with paths now
15:19 RealBadAngel and you havent understood it at all
15:19 PilzAdam what you think works for run_in_place only
15:20 RealBadAngel default sounds will come with game
15:20 RealBadAngel already stored there
15:20 RealBadAngel in this exact folder
15:20 PilzAdam that stupid
15:20 PilzAdam you want to ship all ambient soundtracks with minetest?
15:20 RealBadAngel so every client will have local sounds
15:21 PilzAdam and all other music that every mod uses?
15:21 RealBadAngel but if a mod will override it
15:21 RealBadAngel it will be sent to client
15:21 RealBadAngel and handled old way
15:21 RealBadAngel this way we reduce bandwith needed
15:22 PilzAdam it would be better to tell users to put sounds in ~/.minetest/sounds/ of the dont want to download them all the time
15:22 RealBadAngel because all default sounds will be already on the client side
15:22 PilzAdam shipping minetest with all these sounds is ridiculous
15:22 RealBadAngel you already do so
15:22 PilzAdam I mean sounds of 3rd party mods
15:22 RealBadAngel and call it stupid?
15:23 RealBadAngel you are forcing sending all the sounds each time
15:23 PilzAdam I think you simply dont want to understand what I want to tell you
15:24 RealBadAngel i do, you are thinkin old way, and want them to be lua sent
15:24 RealBadAngel like they are now
15:24 PilzAdam nope
15:24 RealBadAngel so server have to send them
15:24 PilzAdam I want users to put them into a folder so that they are not send
15:24 PilzAdam but I dont want to preinstall the sounds with the engine
15:25 PilzAdam because the engine doesnt know wich games/mods the users will use
15:25 RealBadAngel preinstall it with game mod then
15:25 PilzAdam so you want to force users to be root to intsall games in Minetest?
15:26 RealBadAngel ok, i can agree to move them to users folder
15:26 RealBadAngel got your point
15:26 Ristovski RealBadAngel: hmm, I get "PNG warning: Interlace handling should be turned on when using png_read_image" and it freezes when joining the sandbox server
15:27 PilzAdam Ristovski, I guess the dev channel is the wrong channel for that
15:27 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, use $path_user first, then $path_share and then download it from server
15:28 RealBadAngel in reverse order...
15:29 RealBadAngel if server supplies it then use it
15:29 RealBadAngel this is not textures system
15:29 RealBadAngel local are supposed to be primary
15:30 RealBadAngel so you check for overrides first
15:30 RealBadAngel not the last
15:31 PilzAdam it should be only downloaded from server if the version on the server differs from the locally stored
15:31 RealBadAngel in fact im not sure how it should be handled
15:32 RealBadAngel my vote is to ship some very basic and default sounds together with the engine
15:32 RealBadAngel and move commons to builtin
15:34 PilzAdam 1) check if the sound is locally present (path_user first, path_share if the sounds are not in path_user); 2) check if the server offers the same files, if not use the local file; break; 3) check if the local file and the file on the server differ; if yes: download from server; if no: use local file
15:34 PilzAdam no, thats wrong
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15:35 PilzAdam 1) get filename from server; 2) check if its locally; 3) check if the server file and local file differ; download from server if yes; use local file else
15:35 PilzAdam this could also work for textures
15:35 PilzAdam and it would save a lot of time for many people
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15:38 jojoa1997_Tablet is it possible for minetest to colorize blocks.(one file texture and multiple nodes that hve different colors)
15:38 Calinou no
15:38 Exio did you read the TODO list
15:38 jojoa1997_Tablet there is a TODO list?!?!
15:38 Calinou http://dev.minetest.net/TODO <= inb4 "TODO"
15:38 Calinou well, inafter "TODO"
15:40 PilzAdam thats hmmmm's TODO list
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15:40 PilzAdam hmmmm, you should move it to your userspace in the wiki
15:40 jojoa1997_Tablet PilzAdam do you have a todo list?
15:40 jojoa1997_Tablet is there an official one?
15:41 PilzAdam yes, I have a TODO list
15:41 jojoa1997_Tablet where is it
15:41 PilzAdam in my head
15:41 Jordach ehm
15:41 Jordach http://dev.minetest.net/Mapgen_V7
15:41 * jojoa1997_Tablet connects a mind reading machine to PilzAdam's head
15:42 Jordach Mapgen V7 is fully described here
15:42 Jordach well that's any help
15:42 Jordach its just a picture. :)
15:42 jojoa1997_Tablet yes very described
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16:03 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, way easier: 1) check if file is sent by server, if so use it. 2) if no use local one 3) file is missing ;)
16:04 RealBadAngel more, adaptin all current default mods to use it will be just copy them to client
16:05 RealBadAngel all is about cache
16:05 RealBadAngel if file is in cache it means it was sent by the server
16:06 PilzAdam this wouldnt help much in first login
16:06 PilzAdam you are still downloading everything
16:06 RealBadAngel you still are missing the point
16:06 PilzAdam the goal is to not download things that are locally present
16:06 PilzAdam what you suggest is same as textures/all
16:07 RealBadAngel move that damn common things to game
16:07 RealBadAngel so each and every client will have them by definition
16:07 PilzAdam you would simply break backwards compatibility by not having the textures on the server
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16:08 RealBadAngel it wont break anything
16:08 RealBadAngel for christ sake
16:08 RealBadAngel turn logic on
16:08 PilzAdam you would rely on the fact that every client has all the texture in it
16:08 PilzAdam so old clients cant connect to new servers
16:09 PilzAdam it isnt like you move sounds to the engine and magically every client on the world has them
16:09 RealBadAngel first of all worst case just textures will be missing
16:09 RealBadAngel so old crap user will have to update the game
16:09 RealBadAngel nothing special
16:09 PilzAdam see? you break compatibility
16:10 RealBadAngel see? we are DEVELOPING the game
16:10 RealBadAngel not maintainin national museum of minetest :P
16:11 Exio g
16:12 Jordach now that;s a nice signiture right there
16:12 RealBadAngel ofc new versions of the game will be incopatible with older ones
16:12 RealBadAngel we do that every few weeks
16:13 RealBadAngel for minor changes even
16:13 PilzAdam ehm
16:14 PilzAdam you can connect with a 0.4.4 client to a 0.4.6 server IIRC
16:14 RealBadAngel so what
16:14 RealBadAngel many things wont work
16:14 PilzAdam only the new features wont work then
16:14 RealBadAngel is that a succes or cheating yourself?
16:15 PilzAdam but what you suggest is break one of the most important parts of the game
16:15 RealBadAngel yeah?
16:15 RealBadAngel try to use 6d facedir with old client with enabled atlas
16:15 RealBadAngel good luck
16:16 PilzAdam you are comparing new features with basic things like textures
16:16 PilzAdam your point is not valid
16:16 RealBadAngel treat is as new feature
16:16 RealBadAngel "decrease bandwith needed to connect"
16:17 RealBadAngel voila
16:17 PilzAdam so we call texutres a new feature introduced in 0.4.7?
16:17 PilzAdam turn logic on
16:17 RealBadAngel client side stored media files
16:18 RealBadAngel first step to move there default sounds
16:20 RealBadAngel but still, lets wait for others, what they may have to say bout the idea, ok?
16:21 RealBadAngel 2 voices are not enough to vote, especially when theyre quite opposite ;)
16:29 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, btw... http://i.imgur.com/OapBLIO.jpg
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18:24 VanessaE regarding the sounds/textures debate:  We need a whole new way of checking for these things.  If the client has a texture or sound, that should absolutely be used regardless of what the server wants to send.  The server should send whatever the client doesn't have, BUT the client should always be shipped with sounds+textures/.
18:24 VanessaE best of both sides of the argument.
18:27 VanessaE the client should always look in the directory the server might normally have if the server were installed on the same machine as the client, that way duplicate images are neither needed nor created in most users' installs.
18:28 VanessaE the client and server should both have a pre-cached set of very basic image hashes, something that gives us less than 0.001% chance of a false match.
18:28 VanessaE so that client and server can do very fast comparisons at connect time.
18:29 VanessaE ditto for sounds of course.
18:29 celeron55 <+PilzAdam> c55 and kahrl had the intention to not split everything into server/ and client/
18:30 celeron55 yes, please continue that tradition where possible
18:31 celeron55 both of what are under client/ can be dropped out from there
18:33 celeron55 (they're there mostly because of laziness of modifying patches)
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20:01 hmmmm oh god
20:01 hmmmm who wanted to separate client and server
20:01 hmmmm [11:40 AM] <PilzAdam> thats hmmmm's TODO list
20:01 hmmmm it's not though
20:02 hmmmm i shouldn't move it to my "userspace"
20:02 hmmmm those are just pressing issues that i personally have to do, and nobody added anything
20:03 PilzAdam why are you removing stuff like "weather" from it then?
20:04 hmmmm [10:36 AM] <RealBadAngel> hmmmm, are you around?
20:04 hmmmm yes i am around
20:04 hmmmm because it was poorly written
20:04 hmmmm and besides, weather is already possible with mods
20:05 PilzAdam ehm
20:05 hmmmm i know of a rain mod
20:05 PilzAdam yes, but it isnt good
20:05 PilzAdam rain was possible since entities were added
20:05 PilzAdam but it is 1) too laggy (even with particles) and 2) blocks dont block rain
20:05 hmmmm so if someone can actually write what needs to be done (intelligently) in order for "good" weather to happen, then sure add it
20:06 PilzAdam if you stay under a node you still get wet
20:06 hmmmm and by "what needs to be done" i mean the technical aspects behind it
20:07 proller i want to make complete weather system, but have no time now
20:08 hmmmm so why is it that people don't seem to care about making things neat
20:08 hmmmm not just code, but even wiki pages
20:08 hmmmm they haphazardly add in things missing newlines, wrong header, etc.
20:09 hmmmm and the actual content they add is practically useless
20:09 hmmmm i don't want the TODO page to become a wishlist
20:09 hmmmm it's there for devs
20:10 proller it was my TODO
20:11 hmmmm oh
20:11 hmmmm well, please be neater about it
20:12 proller ok
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23:25 Pentium44 darkrose, you here?
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23:32 savedgames I got a serious thing in 0.4.6 like a bug. Everything becomes grey after a certain period. Have many already reported this?
23:33 savedgames and every time afterwards I load the game it starts in the grey area. Regardless of where I hit with my pickaxe when I'm in the grey no sound is heard, so I'm not hitting anything.
23:34 VanessaE this would normally mean you've got a server process that's stuck.
23:34 VanessaE (minetest is really a client and a server together)
23:34 VanessaE check that you don't have other, hung minetest instances running (look at your task manager or process list)
23:35 VanessaE Do you have any mods loaded?
23:35 VanessaE (also, this really belongs over on #minetest )
23:35 ShadowNinja looks more like a graphics issue to me
23:46 savedgames you are right. I got an extra minetest running.
23:47 savedgames ops...no. The world spawns as grey the moment I enter it.
23:47 savedgames So the last world that got infected by the "grey disease bug" I stopped using and created a new world which is healthy.
23:48 savedgames Though its sad, cause I put work in this world and I don't wanna start from the beginning. About reproducing this bug? Sorry I'm outta luck. In both cases it just happened without explanation...
23:49 VanessaE savedgames: you may have to just wait it out
23:49 VanessaE try the "broken" world again but give it a minute to try to load
23:49 VanessaE sometimes on my server, it takes several seconds before the world starts loading, when I connect.
23:50 savedgames Maybe I should just make a little screencast showing what happens...me just describing with words probably doesn't help. What do you think?
23:50 VanessaE no need, we know what it is :)
23:50 VanessaE a grey screen - the world didn't load.
23:50 VanessaE =[
23:50 VanessaE gah, can't type.
23:50 savedgames ok . then. I will wait...
23:50 VanessaE a grey screen = the world didn't load.
23:51 savedgames Yes, but it just became grey while I was playing. Does that happen also?
23:51 savedgames that I have to wait ingame for it to do its 'stuff'?
23:52 savedgames I also got the feeling that it uses way more cpu in this grey disease mode
23:53 savedgames but it's nothing I can confirm. I really think you don't have what I have so what you think about I posting a screencast?
23:53 savedgames I think it's enough showing you a comparison of a newly created world and my two other worlds struck by the calamity
23:54 savedgames still grey
23:54 VanessaE by now it should have loaded.  Any errors in your console?
23:54 savedgames fps 0?
23:55 savedgames ops, didn't notice. That's weird, ain't it?
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23:55 VanessaE (the terminal/command line that some installs will show)
23:55 savedgames I must start minetest in console mode then, I can start it in a terminal, is that what I should have done?
23:55 VanessaE it IS normal for the screen/sky to turn grey at times, particularly if you're looking out over terrain that didn't load.
23:56 VanessaE yes, you need to start it from a command line so we can see if there are any errors being thrown
23:56 savedgames Everything IS grey
23:56 savedgames FPS=0
23:56 savedgames ok, starting soon
23:56 Exio savedgames: what are your coords?
23:57 VanessaE Oh I forgot to ask that
23:57 savedgames How do I find out?
23:57 VanessaE savedgames: press F5 and tell us what your coordinates are.
23:57 savedgames I pressed F5
23:58 savedgames -214748
23:58 VanessaE OOPS!
23:58 Exio got it
23:58 VanessaE that's why
23:58 VanessaE /teleport 0,0,0
23:58 VanessaE do that.
23:58 savedgames how do I do that?
23:58 VanessaE he got bit by the insane coordinates bug :D
23:58 VanessaE just start typing.
23:58 VanessaE the / will open a command line into the progra,/.
23:58 VanessaE program*
23:58 Exio in the console, but do that a second after you "start" the game
23:59 VanessaE Exio: he doesn't have to time it.  he can just teleport and then restart the game.
23:59 Exio VanessaE: ehm
23:59 Exio it didn't work for me in that way
23:59 savedgames Server says teleporting to 0,0,0

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