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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-03-25

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Time Nick Message
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00:04 VanessaE ok, something's just not right here.  the server's spiking to 100% just to load terrain that's been generated ages ago
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00:10 RealBadAngel hmmmm, no matter the values i try to put there it always crashes with same error
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00:13 hmmmm yes i know
00:13 hmmmm gosh i guess you were just lucky with some parameter
00:13 hmmmm it looks like the ore sheet too needs that check before i call pr.range()
00:15 RealBadAngel so what in the example is wrong?
00:15 hmmmm nothing, it's my mistake
00:16 hmmmm but for some reason i feel like the ore it's producing after being fixed isn't enough
00:16 hmmmm lemme try it in the air
00:16 RealBadAngel ok
00:17 hmmmm ah nevermind there's quite a bit
00:18 hmmmm it's just not what you'd expect underground
00:18 hmmmm alright i'll push a fix
00:18 hmmmm i still wonder why i didn't see that bug earlier
00:18 hmmmm must be soemething about those parameters
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00:20 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8d13967aa3a802df8fa8d97fcce32fea2b46f2bf
00:22 RealBadAngel testing
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00:40 realbadangel_ hmmm no luck at all
00:40 hmmmm what?
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00:41 realbadangel_ im flyin underground and cant find any
00:41 hmmmm keep looking, you'll see it
00:41 hmmmm when you find some there will be a lot of it
00:42 hmmmm and that's the whole point of this ore type, is it not?
00:42 realbadangel_ yeah
00:42 realbadangel_ what is the way to make it more common?
00:42 realbadangel_ i mean which setting
00:43 hmmmm it is already very common
00:43 hmmmm you'll see if you were to make it replace air and have it above ground
00:43 realbadangel_ going to try
00:44 hmmmm you don't see much of it because it's very short vertically
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00:44 hmmmm if you increase the height you should see more, but...
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00:51 realbadangel_ now i can see them
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00:53 realbadangel_ how to adjust the size of it?
00:54 realbadangel_ spread?
00:59 RealBadAngel looks like
00:59 RealBadAngel hmmm, noticed one thing
01:00 RealBadAngel they do generate in pattern, only at certain height levels
01:02 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/ya5WYGN.jpg
01:03 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/9UJK2MKL
01:03 hmmmm ?
01:03 hmmmm what would you prefer it to do?
01:03 RealBadAngel see the picture?
01:03 hmmmm yea?
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01:04 RealBadAngel they do spawn in layers. between layers there are no generated sheets
01:04 hmmmm isn't that how it's supposed to spawn...?
01:04 RealBadAngel its like 10 nodes in height between each layer
01:04 hmmmm yea
01:05 hmmmm at least 10 nodes in height
01:05 hmmmm usually more
01:05 RealBadAngel was guessing
01:05 hmmmm so are you saying that you don't want it to do this?
01:05 RealBadAngel i would expect it the height should be more random
01:06 RealBadAngel because if i define range for them like 100 nodes in height
01:07 RealBadAngel there will be heights in that range that sheet will never be spawned
01:07 RealBadAngel and this is the same for whole world
01:08 hmmmm so are you saying that you'd like more than one to spawn per chunk?
01:08 RealBadAngel no, they should spawn on different heights in given range
01:08 RealBadAngel now they do spawn always at the same height
01:09 hmmmm oh i see what you're saying
01:09 hmmmm crap
01:09 RealBadAngel 10 nodes above, another layer
01:09 RealBadAngel +20 another
01:09 RealBadAngel nothing in between
01:09 hmmmm that shouldn't happen
01:09 RealBadAngel pick my example and see it for yourself
01:09 hmmmm i'm passing along the blockseed
01:10 hmmmm yeah that's not happening, you just saw it in one chunk
01:20 RealBadAngel no, i can see it all around
01:20 hmmmm all the ore in the same chunk is at the same height
01:20 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/lLKcHRV.jpg
01:20 RealBadAngel look, its bigger than one chunk. dont you think?
01:20 hmmmm well one chunk is 80x80x80, so
01:20 RealBadAngel always same heights
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01:20 RealBadAngel well, maybe in 80x its true
01:20 RealBadAngel but anyway it just doesnt look any random :)
01:20 hmmmm you're free to improve it
01:20 RealBadAngel maybe if sheet could go up or down a bit?
01:20 RealBadAngel like for given diameter few nodes height change allowed
01:20 hmmmm it does - it's completely random  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapgen.cpp#L155
01:20 RealBadAngel height is random, but sheet is flat
01:20 RealBadAngel i mean to twist whole sheet
01:20 hmmmm oh..
01:20 RealBadAngel so it could go up or down
01:20 hmmmm well gosh, you don't really want a sheet, do you.
01:20 RealBadAngel twisted sheet :)
01:20 hmmmm =/
01:20 hmmmm try a scatter ore with 3d noise and very high concentration (low scarcity value)
01:21 RealBadAngel but then i will get it everywhere
01:21 hmmmm looks like you should invent a new ore type then
01:21 RealBadAngel i will play with settings
01:22 RealBadAngel maybe i will invent somethin
01:22 hmmmm well
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01:28 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
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01:43 RealBadAngel hmmmm, hell yeah :)
01:44 RealBadAngel its way better imho
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01:46 hmmmm mmmm
01:46 hmmmm alright, i'll add that
01:46 hmmmm but what i have there wasn't really the intent of the sheet ore type
01:47 RealBadAngel so maybe call it another type?
01:47 hmmmm no, because all i did was add a line of code and change another
01:47 hmmmm alright
01:48 RealBadAngel its still a sheet, but looks way way better
01:48 hmmmm here's how i'm going to do this:  you need to modify the scale of the noiseparams to get how bendy it is
01:48 hmmmm but
01:48 hmmmm you need to disregard the scale when you go to write the threshhold value
01:49 RealBadAngel so flat one will be still possible, yes?
01:49 hmmmm yes, by leaving the scale at 1
01:49 hmmmm or 0 perhaps
01:50 RealBadAngel thats good
02:04 RealBadAngel hmmmm, you got it ready?
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02:38 hmmmm yeah
02:38 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/26cad481d08432df1c9ace5f1ac23f1fad9a403f
02:39 hmmmm it's a shame this goes underground
02:39 hmmmm it generates really neat looking things
02:39 VanessaE hmmmm: you never know what modders will do to abuse the API hooks they're given
02:40 hmmmm yeah, with the same ore generation type you can already make nice looking clouds
02:40 hmmmm now with this you can do pretty nice floating islands
02:40 VanessaE I was *just* thinking about that
02:42 RealBadAngel or cover ground level with something
02:43 hmmmm haha oh wow
02:43 hmmmm that's true, you could make lakes or springs with this
02:43 hmmmm which would naturally create rivers
02:43 hmmmm ore = water_source, wherein = dirt_with_grass
02:44 hmmmm and you'd need a very scarce noiseparams
02:45 RealBadAngel i think this one is gonna have many uses :)
02:45 VanessaE hmmmm: oooooo
02:46 VanessaE people HAVE been asking when we'll have proper rivers.....
02:46 hmmmm this isn't a proper river though
02:46 VanessaE yeah Iknow
02:46 VanessaE but it's the closest thing yet
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03:07 hmmmm well... this isn't quite what i was expecting..
03:07 VanessaE ?
03:08 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaHZpYg
03:09 VanessaE err
03:10 VanessaE back to the drawing board.....
03:10 VanessaE :_)
03:10 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaHZpYw
03:10 VanessaE :)
03:13 Exio just some tweaks and profit! :D
03:21 Exio going to sleep now, bye!
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03:43 RealBadAngel hmmmm, what were the settings for this? http://ompldr.org/vaHZodQ
03:47 hmmmm http://pastebin.com/tJ3fWNsq
03:47 hmmmm whoops
03:47 hmmmm oh no that's right
03:58 RealBadAngel i like it
03:59 RealBadAngel bbl, work time
04:02 hmmmm i think i figured out what is it about prestidigitator that bothers me
04:02 VanessaE which would be?
04:02 hmmmm he doesn't work with us at all, so there's really no input and we can't guide him or comment on anything, and he's going to show up with this huge patch and expect us to just plop it in
04:04 hmmmm also he thinks he's better than us because he strictly follows moronic super-object-oriented coding guidelines that belong in a java enterprise application and not minetest
04:04 VanessaE actually the first part of that is sort of how I saw it
04:04 VanessaE he takes his own direction, etc.
04:06 hmmmm unfortunately for his super-duper polymorphic interface shitfuck noise class with inheritance, that "10x slower" single-point noise penalty is more than enough to make it completely unappealing
04:07 VanessaE right, and we don't need that
04:07 hmmmm but we wouldn't know what he's doing wrong because we haven't seen anything of his
04:07 VanessaE you did a hell of a lot of work to speed the engine back up to 0.3.x levels (probably beyond?)
04:07 hmmmm we still extensively use single-point noise, so it's necessary
04:07 hmmmm i thought 0.3.x was slower because of the 3d noise
04:08 VanessaE well a lot of folks have said that 0.4.x is slow by comparison - or was.  I've seen the same too, but it ain't anymore
04:08 VanessaE but you know, that stuff's pretty subjective
04:08 hmmmm maybe it is faster, definitely not graphics-wise
04:08 VanessaE you've got benchmarks to prove it ;-)
04:09 hmmmm the most recent minetest is practically unplayable on my laptop
04:09 hmmmm come on, i thought minetest was designed for crappy graphics cards
04:09 VanessaE well that much is true, but since RBA's "6d" patch, I've gained back most of what I lost in graphic performance
04:10 hmmmm yeah
04:10 VanessaE you saw my comment earlier about 512px mode working again?
04:10 hmmmm i haven't, but i believe you
04:11 hmmmm before i continue onto the next big thing, i think i want to identify what's causing the stutering
04:11 hmmmm i have a rough idea of where to look, it's somewhere in between 0.4.3 and 0.4.4-d1
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07:26 celeron55 hmmmm: shaders?
07:26 celeron55 or the switch to using opengl as default on windows
07:26 celeron55 those seem like the uttermost likeliest causes
08:08 celeron55 lol, the nodebox is still marked experimental in lua_api.txt 8)
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10:42 Exio celeron55: because it is!
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14:21 RealBadAngel hi all
14:22 RealBadAngel first of all we shall take care of memory management
14:22 RealBadAngel when game starts. we go back to menu
14:23 RealBadAngel and after a few times doing so it crashes
14:23 RealBadAngel we got problem with destructors
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15:35 PilzAdam the favorite server list is broken in win builds
15:35 PilzAdam the GUI doesnt show any servers and client/serverlist/favoriteservers.txt only contains the most recent server
15:43 hmmmm mmmmmmmmmm, proller__
15:44 proller__ mee
15:44 hmmmm thexyz_ we need the dev wiki captcha fixed
15:48 proller__ maybe setup recapcha ?
15:48 hmmmm yeah, anything that actually works is better than this cat stuff.
15:49 proller__ PilzAdam, maybe my bug
15:52 proller__ PilzAdam, but i dont change this logic, it seems broken when i make online serverlist
15:53 proller__ and it not working on unix with not-root user
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16:15 thexyz_ hmmmm: sure
16:15 thexyz_ should work now
16:26 PilzAdam I dont like that the public server list is shown when switching to the Multiplayer tab
16:31 proller__ maybe save last choice ?
16:32 PilzAdam yep
16:33 proller__ but local list is broken and not usable
16:33 PilzAdam it works for me
16:34 proller__ i make fix for saving later
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16:49 VanessaE local list doesn't work for me, either
16:49 VanessaE only the public list does.
16:50 VanessaE (linux, self-built from git)
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16:55 rubenwardy hi all
16:55 PilzAdam thexyz_, I am reading a bit through the code about the nick completion
16:56 PilzAdam seems like the clientenvironment only has the local player
16:56 PilzAdam and the server doesnt send anything to the client to add new clients
16:57 PilzAdam I found TOCLIENT_PLAYERINFO that sends the player names, but its marked as obsolete
17:10 PilzAdam the players are only send as active objects to the client
17:15 VanessaE couldn't you just extract the info you need from those "*** so and so left/joined" messages?
17:15 VanessaE it's hacky but it wouldn't require any new network overhead
17:17 hmmmm hmmm it seems that the Minecraft equivalent to our EmergeManager is called "WorldManager"
17:18 hmmmm except it's much more tightly coupled with their mapgen, making the whole setup much less flexible
17:18 Exio minecraft flexible?
17:35 proller__ PilzAdam, please add desc to wiki for indev mapgen:  * Added a new map generator called ''indev'' (rare HUGE caves, float lands at y=500+, higher mountains and biome sizes at edges)
17:35 proller__ i cant select cars 8)
17:35 proller__ cats
17:36 Exio cats? what?
17:36 proller__ http://dev.minetest.net/index.php?title=Changelog&action=submit
17:36 proller__ cats 8( bit i prefer dogs
17:36 hmmmm you don't need to do that anymore
17:36 hmmmm it was removed
17:37 Jordach why do mountains have to be higher at the edges?
17:37 Jordach then it seems like your in a crater
17:37 proller__ for more intresting exploring
17:38 proller__ and more harder
17:38 proller__ no, sea deeper too at edges
17:38 proller__ try it
17:39 proller__ at server DEV TESTING MAY WIPE!
17:39 proller__ can teleport
17:41 proller__ and! all far-depend scales adjustable via mapgen params
17:45 proller__ you can set 0.001 and have flat at edges
18:16 PilzAdam workaround for nick completion: https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/38a6a7f5af3572d3100701f1d342e3a9238cce7b
18:21 PilzAdam it inserts the player name to a list in the clientEnvironment when the playerCAO is generated
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19:08 hmmmm PilzAdam, you're familiar with the entity system, yes?
19:08 hmmmm i want to add the persistent entity attribute
19:09 PilzAdam in Lua?
19:09 hmmmm that is, if false, the entity will not be saved on chunk unload
19:09 hmmmm obviously this must be done in the core
19:09 PilzAdam I only know the Lua side of entities well
19:09 hmmmm oh, okay.
19:10 hmmmm to your knowledge, is there any sort of setting that's like this in any way?
19:10 Exio there was a patch for adding force_field or so
19:10 hmmmm that's different
19:10 Exio maybe you can get "info" in how you can add the settings or stuff like that to it
19:10 Exio ah
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19:19 PilzAdam hmmmm, maybe in environment.cpp:1718
19:21 hmmmm there already is something like this, okay... why is it that i keep hearing about /clearobjects from users and how it takes such a long time
19:21 hmmmm i thought that they needed to do that because objects kept falling and they piled up so they had to clear them eventually
19:22 hmmmm i hope dropped nodes, saplings, etc. are all objects that get deleted on unload.
19:22 Exio what about a *timed* remove?
19:23 hmmmm that's pretty wasteful because you'd have to track each object
19:23 PilzAdam hmmmm, if the mapbock unloads the objects just convert into a static form
19:23 PilzAdam /clearobjects deletes static objects too
19:24 hmmmm it gets deleted if m_known_by_count == 0
19:27 hmmmm hmm okay
19:28 hmmmm so how do we do this so /clearobjects isn't necessary very often
19:29 PilzAdam block objects at the map edges, add item decaying
19:29 hmmmm i would prefer if only objects with a certain attribute ever become static in the first place
19:30 hmmmm if we were to add item decay that'd require a timer for each object
19:31 proller thexyz_, Please select all the cat photos: 8(
19:33 hmmmm so that's just one part of the equation
19:34 hmmmm the other part is to make clearobjects not murder peoples' ram
19:35 hmmmm i am thinking of doing this by having loadBlock() to increment a "# blocks loaded" statistic to the Map whenever a block is inserted into a MapSector
19:36 hmmmm if it passes a threshhold in EmergeThread, or emergeBlock, it'll unload the least recently used block (they're sorted by expiry time already)
19:36 hmmmm yes?  no?
19:39 PilzAdam how does that help?
19:39 hmmmm by not eating peoples ram by having 1000000000000000000000000 blocks loaded at the same time
19:41 PilzAdam why are the blocks loaded when the objects are removed?
19:41 PilzAdam isnt there another way to drop the static objects?
19:41 hmmmm of course not
19:41 hmmmm static objects are stored in the blocks on disk
19:42 hmmmm clearobjects literally loads the entire map into ram
19:45 proller can we optimize block loading-generation when fallin down?
19:45 proller to load bottom only at first
19:47 Calinou how are you supposed to fall then
19:47 Calinou hello, opensuse user!
20:53 proller for falling without stops, or minimize stops
20:54 proller if you know speed and direction - you can load [first|only] on way blocks
20:55 hmmmm indeed, the first blocks to be sent should be those in the immediate 6 neighbors
20:56 hmmmm in your case it's probably network latency that's the reason why you 'stop' - the block loading itself is decently fast
20:59 PilzAdam it isnt network latency, it even happens in singleplayer
21:00 hmmmm i'm just saying the problem is definitely not on the emergethread side at all
21:02 proller but when your speed 100+ per second - you dont need in 6 blocks, only your and next by way
21:03 hmmmm obviously that's an extreme case and isn't common at all
21:03 hmmmm minecraft sidesteps this problem completely because they load in whole vertical sectors
21:04 proller minecraft is 2d
21:05 hmmmm i'm just saying, maybe it isn't too horrible if there is a delay
21:05 proller yes, but better without delay 8)
21:06 PilzAdam maybe add a max vertical velocity for the player
21:06 proller on thexyz_s server i found 4000+ handmade hole
21:06 proller PilzAdam, nooo, its very cool to fall on biiig speed
21:06 hmmmm when i say "maybe it isn't too horrible", i mean "this is not and won't be a priority for me at all"
21:07 PilzAdam you cant reach high speeds because you hit a unloaded block
21:07 proller yes, but you can jump twice
21:07 Calinou how' bout making players stuck but keep their velocity on unloaded blocks
21:07 Calinou back in september 2011 or so this was the case
21:07 Calinou (0.2.20110922_3)
21:08 hmmmm if that were so, you'd be able to fall out of the map
21:08 Calinou just stuck ;)
21:08 Calinou we need some kind of instantly-killing lava at layer -30000
21:08 Calinou or just bedrock :p
21:09 VanessaE "hard iron"
21:09 VanessaE use that new layered ore generation to do it :-)
21:10 VanessaE wait, it *could* do that, couldn't it?
21:10 hmmmm it could, but that would be a waste
21:11 VanessaE true
21:11 hmmmm ugh, i don't know what i want to accomplish next
21:11 hmmmm fix clearobjects, redo block sending, finish mapgen v7
21:12 VanessaE I could make various random suggestions, but all would be somewhat less than trivial :-0
21:12 VanessaE :-)
21:12 proller another idea - -31001 threat as +3999
21:12 proller 39999
21:12 proller ups
21:12 VanessaE proller: hell no
21:12 proller 30999
21:13 proller on any direction
21:13 VanessaE now, X/Z directions that makes good sense
21:13 VanessaE but I doubt it's doable
21:13 proller why not y?
21:14 VanessaE because you fall down, why should you do anything other than eventhally land on something?
21:14 hmmmm that would fit in with the whole retro theme that mine* games have
21:14 PilzAdam proller, I teleported to y=10000, then fell down to 0 (with breaks), then teleported back to y=10000 so I can fall without interuptions
21:14 VanessaE hmmmm: which would?
21:14 hmmmm y wraparound
21:14 VanessaE oh
21:14 PilzAdam at 0 I toogled free move, and stopped at -6328
21:15 hmmmm i suppose you could do mg_name = singlenode with mapgen_singlenode == air
21:15 hmmmm and test it that way
21:16 VanessaE PilzAdam: which is busted all to hell IMHO.
21:16 proller PilzAdam, yes, i tried this
21:16 VanessaE I *hate* the new falling/climbing model
21:16 proller but without free move toggle
21:18 PilzAdam hmmmm, I even hit unloaded blocks with singlenode mapgen
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21:23 VanessaE back when we had minetest.ru:30001 it was very difficult to hit an unloaded block while falling
21:24 Exio in what hardware did it run?
21:24 VanessaE well, it was "not common" anyway
21:24 VanessaE dunno, ask thexyz_
21:24 Exio falling
21:25 Exio i'm able to get unloaded chunks for a very few ms every 5~6 seconds
21:25 Exio with singlenode and air
21:27 Exio ahahahaha
21:27 Exio rofl, i just fell... in a nyancat!
21:28 VanessaE heh
21:31 proller http://servers.minetest.net/ : i want to remove :30000 default port if its default and place servers without passwords first, any objections?
21:31 proller for simpler join for new players
21:32 VanessaE no, don't do that
21:32 VanessaE passwords should be encouraged
21:33 proller but its too hard to get passwort to random server
21:34 VanessaE get?
21:34 VanessaE no
21:34 VanessaE you just have to make one up.
21:34 VanessaE 123456 is better than no password at all
21:34 proller ups
21:35 proller agree
21:37 celeron55 the way minetest handles passwords tends to be a bit hard to grasp to first-time users 8)
21:38 celeron55 i've never seen any other software do it the same way
21:38 rarkenin Hashing and base64?
21:38 celeron55 lol no
21:38 celeron55 the UX
21:38 VanessaE celeron55: ironic, considering that it really can't be any easier :-)
21:38 celeron55 = no registration at all
21:38 celeron55 VanessaE: yes
21:38 proller on some server you cant join without registration, but we havent flag about this
21:39 rarkenin Why not have each server generate 4096-bit PGP keys, then send the password encrypted that way?
21:39 rarkenin Oh, saw your previous message. That last one about PGP was not meant to actually be implemented.
21:39 celeron55 rarkenin: yeah sure, add more build dependencies for windows
21:47 celeron55 feel free to search for lightweight cryptography libraries though... something to do an unauthenticated key exchange and something to do some AES encryption, probably
21:47 rarkenin_ OK. I'll look. Perhaps some sort of lightweight RSA?
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21:53 PilzAdam should I add sound_place to Item or NodeDef?
21:54 celeron55 here are some medium-sized ones that can probably be taken seriously: http://botan.randombit.net/ http://libtom.org/ http://beecrypt.sourceforge.net/
21:54 celeron55 i've been using crypto++ at work, but it's huge
21:54 Kray hey, don't you have some semiofficial server listing thingie now!
21:55 celeron55 Kray: we have an official automatically working one
21:55 Kray just grab public key from that and then you can be sure the connection is secure 8D
21:56 rarkenin_ Possibly.
21:56 Kray (that would be overkill)
21:56 Kray you are only exchanging unimportant passwords
22:04 RealBadAngel hi all
22:05 RealBadAngel a proposition: since we can play local sounds (to client only) without download content
22:05 RealBadAngel couldnt we make music for client?
22:08 Exio i'd like that
22:08 Exio (Ambience?)
22:08 RealBadAngel this could be server independent
22:09 RealBadAngel c++ code can play local sounds (somebody was testing it and left there working code)
22:10 RealBadAngel i already made for me technic ambience with script on the server side but music local
22:12 rarkenin_ joined #minetest-dev
22:13 RealBadAngel code is a bit of test one, it is limited to just 10 sounds stored loclally with fixed names+number
22:13 RealBadAngel but its easy to fix
22:14 RealBadAngel i tested it with movin all ambience/technic ambience tracks to the client side
22:14 RealBadAngel it works perfect
22:34 Exio i'd like some sort of client-side scripting
22:35 rarkenin Seconded.
22:35 Exio just limiting features because "cheaters may use them" seems just a soft limit
22:35 Exio and even, the client-side scripting should not need to have access to a lot of stuff
22:35 rarkenin And/or running server-side mods on clients for performance. Depending on server settings, the mods could also be run server-side either fulltime to prevent cheating, or just at randon times for spot-checking.
22:36 rarkenin *random
22:36 Exio that is something what i'd like too, but it seems "too much work" :P
22:36 rarkenin Also data structures need to be shared.
22:43 rarkenin joined #minetest-dev
23:01 PilzAdam different place sounds for nodes: https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commits/sound2
23:16 PilzAdam any comments?
23:18 Exio if i understad the code correctly, the sounds "aren't" confirmed by the server? (my main worry is the lag)
23:18 ShadowNinja The place sound is the grass footstep sound
23:19 Taoki joined #minetest-dev
23:19 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, thats just a testing sound in minimal
23:19 PilzAdam Exio, yes, its client side like the other sounds
23:20 Exio awesome
23:20 Exio grr, understand* i need to write better :P
23:23 Taoki joined #minetest-dev
23:27 robertj joined #minetest-dev
23:37 hmmmm Kray, that's what I said, but celeron thinks that because people tend to use the same passwords for everything, the password on a minetest server is a valuable target (which I disagree with.. my password on remote servers is asdf, and I bet it's similar for nearly everybody else)
23:38 Exio now i can hack your accountz!
23:38 * Exio uses H4CKT3STPR0.EXE
23:39 hmmmm well, I guess the new challenge is to identify my accounts
23:40 Exio i can guess them: one random key/char + other key repeated N times
23:40 Exio :P
23:40 hmmmm so you believe my nick is the result of randomness, not thinking?
23:41 hmmmm one day i was thinking of what my nick should be for freenode, so i put "hmmmmm..."
23:41 Exio you just think-ed in random stuff
23:43 hmmmm anyway when i just woke up before i had a new idea
23:44 hmmmm isn't determining the terrain characteristics based on biome the sameish as modulating the noise values by another noise?
23:44 hmmmm i determine the biome by noise, so...
23:44 hmmmm what i do is have that modulating perlin 2d map vary the characteristics of the base terrain noise map
23:45 hmmmm then what i do is go through the terrain i just generated again and determine what biome it is by the characteristics of the terrain and the biome of nearby terrain
23:45 hmmmm which is, erm, how it's done in real life.

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