Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-03-23

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:34 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
02:08 BackupCoder joined #minetest-dev
03:33 celeron55_ joined #minetest-dev
03:36 khonkhortisan joined #minetest-dev
05:02 hmmmm heh.  i could've been OO-y and made Ore into a base class that has a pure virtual function to create ores based on which type of ore it is, scattered, 3d perlin noise, sheet, or clay, and all this other nonsense
05:03 hmmmm but i am resisting that idea and leaving it as a simple struct and have the several generateOres methods of Mapgen
06:46 kaeza1 joined #minetest-dev
06:52 celeron55_ < hmmmm> why do the dungeon generation in lua?
06:53 celeron55_ because i had such code already lying around and didn't want to bother messing too much with the engine
06:53 celeron55_ too much trouble figuring locations for chests and mobs and so on
06:54 celeron55_ and as the player can move so slowly and not in a too large area, the world just generates in the first seconds and then it's done
06:55 celeron55_ so there are a LOT of reasons; feel free to fix the reasons, but currently they are very, very valid
06:55 celeron55_ also, the dungeon layout for this game is very game-specific
06:57 celeron55_ i can see why people here aren't inventing anything new; everybody just directly goes bashing some technical details and don't care about anything else
06:57 celeron55_ it's not rewarding at all to be creative
07:04 hmmmm hey look; that's fine and all, i was just wondering why you'd do that because it struck me as odd
07:04 celeron55_ i'm trying to believe you, but i think it's way too obvious
07:25 hmmmm actually speaking of which
07:25 hmmmm i noticed you used calcLighting() which is pretty wasteful if everything's the same node, setLighting() should be used in this circumstance
07:55 sapier joined #minetest-dev
07:59 sapier I've got a problem with cleaning up scriptapi design, I try to remove redundant therefor possible out of sync information in scriptapi ... but those data spread has resulted in some api limitations. Thus cleaning up this mess will result in (minor) api changes ... at least atm I don't see a way to avoid this :-(.
08:01 sapier examples always help: currently minetest.env:dosomething  ---> after cleanup: minetest.env.dosomething
08:03 sapier why? atm there is a envref object pushed to lua stack containing environment information and a separate server object containing server information ... envref is a member of server and can be accessed by server thus this information is redundant within lua stack. There never will be more than one environment per server object.
08:04 sapier any ideas?
08:17 prestidigitator joined #minetest-dev
08:17 prestidigitator left #minetest-dev
08:18 celeron55_ a minor change? lol
08:18 celeron55_ that will break absolutely everything
08:18 sapier minor change meaning of syntax not of effect
08:19 celeron55_ you're basically modifiying the first parameter of every minetest.env function
08:19 celeron55_ it's huge
08:19 celeron55_ (removing the first parameter)
08:20 sapier yes ... result of decision to unlink environment from server within lua stack
08:20 celeron55_ you will need to fully preserve compatibility with the existing api; there are no excuses about that
08:20 celeron55_ and it needs to be clean because it's going to stay
08:21 celeron55_ if you can do the addition of the self parameter version of every function without additional code for every function, then it' fine
08:21 celeron55_ +s
08:21 sapier atm I see no way to clean up the lua integration mess while preserving 100% compatibility that's why I'm asking  for ideas
08:21 celeron55_ otherwise it will be insane
08:22 celeron55_ i think you will be able to do it
08:22 celeron55_ but not sure exactly how; some metatable trick possibly
08:22 sapier maybe I'll be able to add a workaround just ignoring first parameter this keeping compatibility
08:23 sapier there's no neet for environment to be a parameter at all
08:23 sapier I don't know why this was done that way
08:23 celeron55_ i know there is no need, but you can't break the API
08:23 celeron55_ the only reason to have it now is compatibility, and that is a strong reason
08:24 sapier I know too ;-) preserving this insane decision will be lots of additional work ;-)
08:24 celeron55_ more like zero work
08:24 sapier If this is done can we mark minetest.env: syntax as deprecated to be able to remove this hmm lets say with minetest 0.9 ;-)
08:26 celeron55_ of course
08:27 sapier cleaning up scriptapi is a pain ... it involves changes throughout minetest ... most time minor ... but often difficult to understand how this may have grown
08:27 celeron55_ altough why do you want to keep the .env?
08:27 celeron55_ they all could just be directly in minetest
08:28 sapier of course woult be even more easy to implement
08:28 sapier at least more clean
08:28 celeron55_ it will be easier because if a function is called in env, you can always assume it has the self parameter and just throw that away and call the same function in minetest without it
08:28 celeron55_ env could be implemented directly in builtin as lua as a wrapper like that
08:29 sapier env isn't even needed
08:29 sapier my current aproach splits scriptapi in a top and bottom half
08:29 celeron55_ get rid of it then; no need to be subtle when you're ripping everything apart anyway
08:29 sapier top half containing no language reference at all and reducing header linkage to a very small extent
08:30 sapier bottom half containing everythin only usefull for lua
08:30 sapier ok so bee it remove .env and add a .env: workaround
08:30 celeron55_ what are these halves you are talking about? halves of a file?
08:30 celeron55_ halves of documentation?
08:31 sapier both ... top will be only relevant for core developers
08:31 sapier while bottom defines interface towards lua
08:31 sapier e.g. the env thing
08:31 celeron55_ oh so one is the _raw stuff and that kind of thing, and other is that which is directly in the mod-facing API?
08:32 sapier no not exactly top is where all those fct's are that were called scriptapi_
08:32 sapier bottom everything with l_
08:33 celeron55_ ah that way... i woulnd't call that top and bottom; it's the internal and external interface or something
08:33 sapier scriptapi_ is only used from within core (at least almost ... there's always one place where this isn't true :-( )
08:34 sapier you're right this way of calling it is better
08:34 sapier with this design change it might even be possible to replace lua by vb (at least if someone was willing to invest that time ;-))
08:35 sapier an of course if there is any change in external interface core doesn't need to be rebuilt
08:36 sapier let me be more precise core objects only of course
09:19 celeron55_ hmmmm: regarding to changing mapgen, i think we could use such a policy that changing anything else except the sufrace shape is OK
09:20 celeron55_ and changing surface content is strongly discouraged (like modifying biome noise parameters or so)
09:20 celeron55_ but not entirely disallowed
09:22 celeron55_ that is regarding to V6; other policies can be taken into use for other mapgens when needed, but the default mapgen should use this so maps don't spontaneously get odd square cliffs
09:23 celeron55_ it's very limiting but i guess people expect it
10:24 PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev
10:25 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
10:25 Jordach joined #minetest-dev
10:25 Jordach joined #minetest-dev
10:31 darkrose joined #minetest-dev
10:31 darkrose joined #minetest-dev
10:44 BackupCoder joined #minetest-dev
11:26 proller joined #minetest-dev
11:33 proller joined #minetest-dev
11:37 rark joined #minetest-dev
11:38 rark Hi. Is the bug about nodes being overwritten if the undersurface of a pointed thing is builable_to a known bug?
11:39 PilzAdam its wanted behaviour?
11:39 rark No, it's a problem.
11:39 rark You see, if this occurs on a chunk boundary, in some cases the undersurface is seen as a CONTENT_IGNORE when there was actually something useful there.
11:40 rark This is especially dangerous with chests being the undersurface, and has already been exploited once or twice on one of the servers I moderate.4
11:40 PilzAdam ah, that bug
11:40 rark It also seems like Lua doesn't get called during 100% of placenodes when it should.
11:40 rark So it's known?
11:41 PilzAdam the problem there is that Lua gets ignore when there is actually a node
11:42 rark Yeah. And this ignore is exposed to Lua as oldnode in minetest.register_on_placenode?
11:42 rark It also seems that during testing, sometimes the register_on_placenode callback isn't called at all during node placement. This happens, maybe, 0.1% of the time...
11:43 PilzAdam that may be server lag
11:43 rark No, since the node itself does get placed.
11:43 PilzAdam are you sure that it isnt only node placement prediction of the client?
11:44 PilzAdam since the whole node placement is done in Lua
11:44 rark Yeah, since it appears to all other players as such.
11:44 rark Also, it looks like the lines in server.cpp regarding unpacking the pointed thing somehow do get called.
11:47 rark scriptapi_item.cpp: lines 255-256 look like they might be the cause of the failure. I'll do more testing.
12:00 Taoki joined #minetest-dev
12:03 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
12:26 proller joined #minetest-dev
12:57 rarkenin_ afk
13:06 serengeor joined #minetest-dev
13:15 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
13:20 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
13:45 proller_ joined #minetest-dev
13:51 proller_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/563
14:01 rarkenin_ joined #minetest-dev
14:03 viewer021 joined #minetest-dev
14:05 proller_ maybe make finite liquids enabled by default?
14:05 PilzAdam no
14:06 proller_ ok. i make checkbox for it
14:06 proller_ in pull ^^
14:15 proller_ ready!
14:21 proller_ and.. maybe make servers without password in list upper than protected?
14:23 proller_ joined #minetest-dev
14:26 proller joined #minetest-dev
14:41 celeron55_ proller: by the way, make sure to read this discussion here http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2013-03-23#i_2949424
14:45 proller im ready to use it
14:47 celeron55_ also, i gave you push access to upstream; just make sure at least one other person with such access agrees to whatever you commit before doing so
14:48 celeron55_ (for extra clarity, the list is... umm... here: https://github.com/minetest?tab=members)
14:50 celeron55_ #563 seems good, and you're free to mess around with the indev mapgen as long as you don't flood the commit history with that
14:51 proller wow, thank you
14:52 celeron55_ (maybe squash and push changes only a few times a week or so; quite useless to update it all the time)
14:53 proller ok
14:55 proller about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/563 - everyone agree with default multiplayer tab with online servers list ?
14:56 celeron55_ the commit message should be put on single line and started with a capital letter 8)
14:56 celeron55_ (because it fits on a single line)
14:56 proller ok
14:57 rarkenin_ Maybe if an autogenerated name is used and the server gives an access denied, a new number should be generated?
14:57 celeron55_ (change it to something like "Random guest name and finite liquid checkbox"
14:57 celeron55_ )
14:58 celeron55_ the default tab should probably be voted on on the forums
14:59 celeron55_ personally i don't really care
14:59 celeron55_ the user sees it only one time per installation
14:59 proller rarkenin_, its harder, needs var to store, and now - very low chance to get access denied
14:59 thexyz um
15:00 thexyz can't we replace https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/563/files#L1R94 with serverlist_show_available(USE_CURL) ?
15:00 rarkenin_ OK.
15:00 rarkenin_ Maybe 5 or six digits, then? (Just my paranoia and skewed statistics and probability analysis)
15:01 celeron55_ 4 is plenty enough
15:01 proller rarkenin_, now only ~100 active players with names
15:02 celeron55_ i do think some people will not like the change, but i can't really guess how many (if they often intend to input a name, but forget, and then realize they're guest3244)
15:03 celeron55_ the finite liquid checkbox is also arguable - it really should be per-world
15:03 celeron55_ but so should be the creative and damage ones, but we lack the means to do that
15:04 celeron55_ (that is a thing to be added)
15:09 celeron55_ so if you care, you could design that first and then make the perfect solution
15:10 rarkenin_ About the forgetting a name part, the last name used on any server should be already in the textbox.
15:10 proller celeron55_,  maybe later, now i want to finish float lands
15:10 celeron55_ rarkenin_: yes it should... so that applies only to people forgetting to input a name who regularly wipe minetest's config 8) that should be very rare
15:11 proller and try many weather things
15:13 proller thexyz, USE_CURL can be empty string
15:14 proller maybe not with current cmake
15:23 proller 563 merged, my first commit 8-)
15:27 proller ups. using github merge - bad way ?
15:27 thexyz who cares
15:27 proller it make 2 commits
15:29 PilzAdam I care
15:32 celeron55_ PilzAdam seems to be the only one who cares these days :P
15:33 celeron55_ maybe just stop caring, it's much easier that way
15:34 troller joined #minetest-dev
16:14 celeron55_ hmm
16:14 celeron55_ we should probably move more stuff to common as this thread suggests: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5210
16:15 celeron55_ dunno
16:15 PilzAdam yea
16:15 PilzAdam basically everything that is in minetest_game can be moved to common
16:15 celeron55_ well not everything; there is no need to move legacy in there, for example
16:15 celeron55_ except for reasons that are not valid and should be solved by other means
16:17 PilzAdam maybe we can move everything except legacy to common, and start the survival and build games
16:18 PilzAdam and just leave minetest_game as is (except the updates in common)
16:18 celeron55_ i think everything but give_initial_stuff and legacy could be moved (the first one because it's so static and unconfigurable and simple - any game can do that with no effort)
16:19 celeron55_ and then handy aliases for items should be added to default, so that there is no need for legacy for them
16:20 PilzAdam is give_intial_stuff actually used by anyone?
16:20 celeron55_ dunno; it's useful for quick testing of non-creative mode
16:20 celeron55_ (it's the reason i added it, i think)
16:22 PilzAdam can you create the survival and build repos so I can start doing something?
16:28 celeron55_ hmm, is "survive" worse than "survival"?
16:28 PilzAdam yes
16:28 celeron55_ because survive is a direct verb like build, and i'd imagine naming other games would be easier in this way than as trying to make them non-verbs
16:29 PilzAdam survival is a well known term in games
16:29 PilzAdam everything else can be a verb
16:31 celeron55_ now they exist
16:33 PilzAdam can you add TeamMinetest to them?
16:33 celeron55_ ... 8)
16:33 celeron55_ done
16:33 PilzAdam starred :-)
16:35 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
16:38 rubenwardy1 joined #minetest-dev
16:39 rubenwardy2 joined #minetest-dev
16:39 PilzAdam game.conf and readme added
16:40 PilzAdam now move the mods from minetest_game to common
16:41 rubenwardy3 joined #minetest-dev
16:41 khonkhortisan rubenwardy found the cloning device
16:42 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
16:42 rubenwardy left #minetest-dev
16:45 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
16:49 PilzAdam okay done
16:50 PilzAdam okay, now lets give them their renewable lava back in the build game
16:56 PilzAdam celeron55, there is a problem with dependencies in common mods
16:57 PilzAdam they are simply ignored
16:57 PilzAdam with common_mods = default, creative the hand gets overriden correctl by creative; with common_mods = creative, default the default definition of the hand is used
16:58 PilzAdam and also the common mods are marked as missing in the GUI
16:59 sapier I'm not quite used to mod loading code is this as mixed througout core as mod api is?
17:02 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
17:05 celeron55 PilzAdam: yes, they need to be hand sorted
17:06 PilzAdam can this be fixed somehow?
17:07 celeron55 probably, but i'm not too eager to mess around with doserj's code
17:07 celeron55 it isn't exactly trivial
17:07 celeron55 just put them in the right order for now 8)
17:08 sapier is there any reason why auth handling is implemented in lua not within core?
17:08 celeron55 because handling it in lua allows easily implementing other authentication backends by replacing the handler
17:09 celeron55 in case you haven't noticed, that is fully supported
17:09 sapier ok sounds reasonable
17:10 sapier I was just wondering because this creates some strange code for transforming auth data lua <-> c
17:10 celeron55 http://www.minetest.net/extend.php <- i need a good and short guide for installing mods and texture packs for linking to from this page
17:12 celeron55 the wiki.minetest.com stuff is kind of unprofessional
17:12 PilzAdam also write about games there
17:12 celeron55 i guess these are currently the best ones http://minetest.net/wiki/doku.php?id=installing_mods http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1592
17:12 rubenwardy celeron55: http://multa.bugs3.com/minetest/manual/game/custom.html
17:13 PilzAdam window!?
17:13 PilzAdam +s
17:13 rubenwardy yeah :(
17:13 rubenwardy It is not as good as the http://minetest.net/wiki/doku.php?id=installing_mods one
17:13 celeron55 those screenshots are incredibly hard to understand
17:14 thexyz MineTest =(
17:16 khonkhortisan Why are the other mods blurred out? And why can I read them anyway?
17:35 hmmmm what's with the uptick in celeron activity
17:35 hmmmm thought you hated minetest
17:36 hmmmm i agree that if it's better with no speed regressions, then great, we'll add it, but he wants to shitify things up with too much OO
17:36 celeron55 you're free to propose better organization for the code once the code pops up
17:37 hmmmm also, the noise functions were a bottleneck, but not the only bottleneck
17:38 hmmmm it just so happens that the lighting change sped things up so much because of the previous noise work.  if the noise bottleneck is gone, and the lighting bottleneck is still there, a similar absolute speedup in lighting will make a much larger relative difference
17:38 hmmmm that's just how math works
17:38 hmmmm if i did it in the opposite order people would be jizzing themselves over the improved noise instead of the improved lighting
17:40 sapier does anyone have objections against moving all lua <-> c++ functions to one file?
17:40 hmmmm if it seems like i'm so oposed to prestidigitator, that's because he's basically undoing everything i just did
17:40 sapier type conversion
17:41 sapier e.g. readnode/pushnode or read_v3f/push_v3f
17:42 hmmmm dunno, doesn't really matter, it's just an additional organization change
17:42 hmmmm i'm not sure if it'll be as big of an improvement as splitting the files was
17:42 sapier it's relevant in order to reduce number of rebuilt files and of course to cleanup scripting api
17:42 hmmmm sure, why not
17:43 sapier believe me it is as those functions create depentencys between almost all mods ... moving conversions to one file will at least remove cross dependencys
17:43 sapier mods meaning inventory/entity/object ...
18:30 RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev
18:30 RealBadAngel hi
18:30 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/564
18:30 RealBadAngel 6d facedir is ready
18:52 celeron55 joined #minetest-dev
18:54 PilzAdam maybe we should change the name of minetest_game in minetest.conf, so people dont think thats it is the "official" game or so
18:55 PilzAdam *game.conf
18:55 VanessaE change it to what?
18:55 PilzAdam minetest_game?
18:55 VanessaE oh
18:57 PilzAdam other suggestions?
18:57 VanessaE none at present.
19:04 celeron55 "Traditional Minetest 0.4"
19:05 celeron55 8)
19:05 VanessaE I think if you start giving things new names, it may be about time to move away from calling it "minetest".
19:05 VanessaE (except the engine)
19:06 PilzAdam why does the name of the folder and not the name of game.conf appear behind the worlds (in the [])?
19:06 celeron55 it's called Minetest - it's just referring to the whole, consisting of multiple "micro-games"
19:06 celeron55 PilzAdam: maybe that could be changed
19:07 hmmmm if proller was added to the committers, then why not RBA?
19:08 VanessaE I could agree with RBA being on the team.
19:09 hmmmm he does a lot, i'd have to say enough to be considered a core developer
19:09 hmmmm ugh why can i not focus on anything
19:09 hmmmm my mother is going on with her squeaky voice in the other room about i have no idea what, my back hurts, and i can't even frigging type some code out
19:10 hmmmm i need to start drinking
19:10 VanessaE haha
19:11 celeron55 or sleeping, and buy some kind of ear protectors
19:13 celeron55 i guess i'll add RBA too... RealBadAngel: you probably know the rules of committing to upstream
19:17 celeron55 (in the most compacted form: agreement of somebody else on the team, and a good-looking commit message)
19:18 hmmmm and don't change upstream history if it's over 10 minutes and you're sure nobody else just pulled
19:18 PilzAdam and no merge commits :-)
19:18 hmmmm also agree with that
19:22 celeron55 i hate github for not providing a button to rebase something instead of merging
19:22 hmmmm ugh, every time i have to write it out, i get this urge to make a typedef "MMVM" for ManualMapVoxelManipulator
19:22 celeron55 i guess they want to grow their social crap by marking merges with those
19:24 celeron55 i once hated merge commits, but now i hate avoiding those
19:24 PilzAdam if you merge with merge commits the actual commit is placed somewere in the history
19:25 celeron55 it's placed to the point of time in history where it was coded, yes
19:25 PilzAdam so the whole history is messed up
19:25 hmmmm yes, that's bad, we don't want that
19:29 RealBadAngel sorry was away to do some shopping
19:30 RealBadAngel i think i know the rules
19:31 RealBadAngel my latest commits are propably lookin better than first ones ;)
19:32 RealBadAngel now im going to make aeroplane model
19:33 RealBadAngel that will be used as test object for multitextured nodeboxes
19:34 troller hmmmm, now too hard add new noiseparams, 5-6 places to write
19:35 hmmmm jeez, when i came up with the noiseparams, i thought that was a set that everybody could agree on
19:36 hmmmm noiseparams is supposed to just be that - the parameters that would usually be used in a perlin noise call - nothing else
19:36 hmmmm i think people are too broadly interpreting what a noiseparams is, they think that it's just every aspect that describes noise
19:37 celeron55 http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines
19:38 troller nparams_v6_def - seems not used, they gets from config
19:38 PilzAdam you actually can merge --ff-only
19:38 celeron55 well, yeah, but in the general case that will usually fail
19:39 hmmmm i do a cherry-pick against a current branch
19:39 celeron55 setting up remotes for all random contributors is a PITA
19:39 hmmmm i don't have to..
19:40 PilzAdam https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/5229094
19:40 hmmmm git checkout -b some_shmucks_branch && git fetch http://the_shmucks_repo.git some_shmucks_branch && git checkout master && git cherry-pick the_shmucks_commit
19:41 hmmmm and troller, nparams_v6_def_* are used to initialize the associated MapgenParams structure
19:41 hmmmm because what if they're not modified by any config at all
19:42 celeron55 compared to "wget https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/564.patch | git am -", that's quite worky
19:42 celeron55 + -O-
19:42 celeron55 ehm... -qO-
19:42 PilzAdam if you have the contributors list once setted up, you can always fetch the repo without copying the URL all the time
19:42 hmmmm the understood rule of noiseparam defaults is, if you add something new, you have a default setting in the config, and a mirrored version of the struct with an nparams_<mgnamehere>_def_* in your file
19:49 hmmmm hey sapier are you around?
19:49 RealBadAngel so, do you folks agree to merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/564 ?
19:49 hmmmm NO!
19:49 hmmmm absolutely horrible
19:50 RealBadAngel :) too much rotation freedom?
19:51 hmmmm ha ha, i like your axisdir = facedir >> 2; facedir &= 0x03; that's like something i would write and everybody else would hate
19:52 RealBadAngel that was logical solution
19:52 RealBadAngel this way change doesnt break any older stuff
19:52 hmmmm indeed
19:53 hmmmm sapier, nevermind, i figured it out.. i was just going to ask where to put EnumString definitions in scriptapi
19:53 RealBadAngel it just extends it
19:55 RealBadAngel btw i think we need some bitwise library for Lua
19:55 troller hmmmm, why need to mirror params?
19:56 RealBadAngel http://bitop.luajit.org/
19:56 RealBadAngel like this one
19:56 hmmmm troller, to initialize MapgenParam structures
19:56 VanessaE RealBadAngel: luajit has that.
19:56 hmmmm yeah but now we need to make lua have that
19:56 hmmmm i agree that we need bitop, but we need to add the extension to our own copy of lua as well
19:56 hmmmm it's either that, or we remove bitop from luajit
19:56 RealBadAngel its optional library for luajit
19:56 hmmmm doesn't matter what way it happens, what's important is that it's consistent
19:57 hmmmm if something can work in luajit but not work in lua, then it's unacceptable
19:57 RealBadAngel when we move to luajit why care about old lua?
19:57 hmmmm because we never moved to luajit
19:57 hmmmm we're just using it if we're lucky
19:57 thexyz why not move to it then?
19:57 prestidigitator joined #minetest-dev
19:57 hmmmm because not everybody has luajit
19:57 thexyz we can bundle it
19:57 RealBadAngel not yet, but move will be not an option but switch to
19:58 hmmmm luajit isn't available for all architectures
19:58 RealBadAngel i mean together with move to jit add also bitop
19:58 hmmmm it's not universal like lua is
19:58 hmmmm yes, i'll agree with that
19:58 hmmmm we add bitop to the bundled lua, that'll be okay
19:58 VanessaE hmmmm: are you sure about that?  (all archs; it's available on everything MT runs on now)
19:59 hmmmm but imagine, somebody doesn't have luajit, "whoops, CrazyMod 4.0 doesn't work, screw you"
19:59 VanessaE heh
19:59 hmmmm it's not hard to add the extension
19:59 VanessaE your point is valid
19:59 hmmmm just do it and please don't break compatibility
20:00 PilzAdam there are no luajit win32 builds :-(
20:00 thexyz x86, x86_64, arm, ppc, mips
20:00 hmmmm we never officially added it
20:00 RealBadAngel hell it works even on PS3 and xbox
20:00 troller how to show players ip? on server, want to ip ban
20:00 thexyz sure, minetest will run on all of them
20:00 thexyz and on some other which are not supported by luajit
20:01 hmmmm it doesn't run on SPARC, PA-RISC, and POWER
20:01 VanessaE troller: just ban, it works by IP anyway
20:01 VanessaE Power?
20:01 hmmmm it's not 100% compatible with PPC if that's what you're saying
20:02 VanessaE hmmmm: the overview says jit works on PPC
20:02 thexyz um, sure, sparc
20:02 thexyz who uses anything other than x86/arm those days?
20:02 VanessaE thexyz: some supercomputing facilities? ;)
20:02 hmmmm that doesn't matter, the point is, why limit ourselves when we could've just added the extension to lua?
20:03 thexyz because it costs time, and no one will use it?
20:03 hmmmm if you notice, my platform-specific thread code supports everything except for IRIX and OpenVMS
20:03 thexyz that's great
20:08 VanessaE I personally see no reason to keep interpreted Lua at all - just bundle JIT and throw away the interpreter version
20:08 VanessaE let the game link against a system-wide interpreter if the user wants to
20:08 VanessaE s/game/engine/
20:08 thexyz well, the reason is clear
20:08 thexyz it's not supported at some platforms
20:09 RealBadAngel some very exotic ones
20:09 VanessaE it's not supported on like 0.1% of platforms the game can run on
20:10 RealBadAngel so maybe keep old one just in case?
20:10 RealBadAngel propably bitop would work with old lua too
20:10 VanessaE Linux, BSD, OSX, Windows; AMD64, x86, PPC
20:10 VanessaE this covers 99.9% of all PCs
20:10 PilzAdam there are no official builds for windows
20:10 VanessaE so? bundle and compile it.
20:10 hmmmm i know we support the big four, but my personal standard is to support everything possible
20:10 thexyz PilzAdam: so..?
20:10 RealBadAngel even my ZX Speccy? ;)
20:10 thexyz what stops us from building it?
20:11 VanessaE hmmmm: that's a laudable goal, but is it realistic?  I'm just trying to avoid project bloat.
20:11 PilzAdam I have to build it when cross compiling wich takes time...
20:11 hmmmm if LuaJIT is dynamically linked, then there would be no additional bloat...
20:11 RealBadAngel offtopic: can i merge 6d facedir? :)
20:11 thexyz well, we can drop all additional libraries which are incompatible with pure lua
20:11 hmmmm yes
20:12 VanessaE hmmmm: but then PilzAdam's "there's no win build" argument comes into focus.
20:12 thexyz and still gain perfomance increase
20:12 * RealBadAngel is lookin for the button :)
20:12 PilzAdam it isnt really an argument
20:12 hmmmm noooo
20:12 hmmmm realbadangel, don't
20:12 thexyz RealBadAngel: i'm pretty sure this button is called git cherry-pick
20:12 hmmmm rebase it and push
20:12 hmmmm don't press the button
20:12 VanessaE RealBadAngel: NOT THAT BUTTON!  NOT THE RED ONE!
20:12 RealBadAngel hehehe
20:13 hmmmm not the green one
20:13 PilzAdam *GREEN
20:13 VanessaE (or green in this case)
20:13 hmmmm press the red one
20:13 VanessaE way to kill a joke, guys :)
20:13 thexyz VanessaE: what's that "no win build" about?
20:13 VanessaE thexyz: well it you dynamically link, you're implying a shared, third-party-supplied library, right?
20:13 VanessaE just as you need OpenAL to get sound
20:14 thexyz you can package them with the main binary
20:14 thexyz like, .dll-s
20:14 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, why the merge commit?
20:14 VanessaE thexyz: that's what I was saying should be done, but that's not the impression one gets
20:15 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, you broke rule 4: http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines
20:15 celeron55 this is quite much the reason why i haven't given RBA upstream access; he tends to do first and think second
20:15 celeron55 hopefully that'll improve
20:15 thexyz not like anybody cares though
20:15 RealBadAngel damn :(
20:15 thexyz umm, *cares*
20:15 thexyz just don't do that again
20:15 PilzAdam git rebase --hard HEAD~1
20:16 hmmmm 10 second rule
20:16 PilzAdam *minutes
20:16 hmmmm you can still eat^H^H^H rewrite it
20:16 PilzAdam has anyonre pulled yet?
20:16 hmmmm of course not
20:16 RealBadAngel so what i should do now?
20:17 PilzAdam git rebase --hard HEAD~1; git push -f upstream master
20:17 thexyz PilzAdam: I've just downloaded zipball to build windows binary :P
20:17 PilzAdam *reset
20:17 PilzAdam thexyz, I bet not the official one
20:17 thexyz guess it doesn't count
20:17 thexyz as it's zipball
20:17 hmmmm i'd say part of it is the MinetestBot in #minetest, people think "OOOOOOOH NEW COMMIT, I NEED TO UPDATE"
20:17 thexyz it knows nothing about history
20:17 thexyz we should make it wait 10 minutes before announcing new commit
20:17 thexyz sfan5: ^
20:18 sfan5 who cares about that?
20:18 sfan5 thexyz: ^
20:18 thexyz sfan5: see discussion above
20:18 RealBadAngel git rebase --hard HEAD~1
20:18 PilzAdam people who have to pull a force-updated repo
20:18 thexyz ^^^^^^^
20:18 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, *reset
20:18 sfan5 *reading*
20:18 RealBadAngel are you sure about it?
20:18 VanessaE if you track git, you should be prepared for the occasional oddity.
20:19 VanessaE why do we care about merge commits?
20:19 VanessaE I mean seriously?
20:19 hmmmm read up
20:19 hmmmm we explain why in great detail
20:19 PilzAdam because the actual commits are placed somewere else in the history
20:19 VanessaE um
20:20 VanessaE then github is doing something weird, because I see them in the order they're committed
20:20 PilzAdam wich goes against the whole idea of a history
20:20 thexyz meh, i hope we won't end with empty repo
20:21 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, git rebase --hard HEAD~1  this doesnt look like a valid command
20:21 PilzAdam it is
20:21 PilzAdam well, reset instead of rebase
20:21 RealBadAngel realbadangel@Haven:~/Git/minetest$ git rebase --hard HEAD~1
20:21 RealBadAngel Usage: git rebase [--interactive | -i] [-v] [--force-rebase | -f] [--no-ff] [--onto <newbase>] (<upstream>|--root) [<branch>] [--quiet | -q]
20:21 PilzAdam git reset --hard HEAD~1
20:22 PilzAdam 1 minute left
20:22 RealBadAngel HEAD is now at 2318d19 Merge pull request #563 from proller/guest
20:22 PilzAdam git cherr-pick b1c2bed8b3b42f8cd709b9343ffc82c5179197eb
20:22 PilzAdam git push -f origin master
20:23 PilzAdam *cherry-pick
20:23 RealBadAngel done
20:24 RealBadAngel now what?
20:24 PilzAdam push
20:24 VanessaE push -f.
20:24 PilzAdam like normal push but with -f or --force param
20:24 thexyz or with +
20:25 thexyz git push origin +master
20:25 PilzAdam ummmm....
20:25 PilzAdam why have you opened a pull request?
20:26 RealBadAngel closed it
20:26 RealBadAngel i thought i should pull it from github page
20:27 PilzAdam should I reset it for you?
20:27 RealBadAngel i dont have here cloned original repo but my fork
20:27 troller hmmmm, why not https://github.com/proller/minetest/commit/84e3d807ec4a3a0c9c0a63e3094afcca2d33d52f ?
20:28 thexyz hm, tried to build in clean environment, msvc2010, still get link error
20:28 thexyz mapgen_indev.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: virtual void __thiscall MapgenV6::makeChunk(class BlockMakeData *)" (?makeChunk@MapgenV6@@UAEXPAVBlockMakeData@@@Z)
20:28 hmmmm troller, that's the first i've seen that
20:29 hmmmm also thexyz, i figured it out!
20:29 hmmmm it's because i forward declare BlockMakeData as a class when it's actually a struct
20:29 troller hmmmm, its try to reduce noiseparams places
20:29 hmmmm (thanks indivisibleatom)
20:29 thexyz wow, great
20:29 hmmmm thexyz, you need to merge this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/561
20:29 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, if you can help, sure
20:30 RealBadAngel for next commit i will try to learn some more
20:30 thexyz hmmmm: can't we just merge it into master?
20:30 hmmmm ??
20:30 hmmmm the build fix?
20:30 hmmmm yeah that's the point
20:31 thexyz oh
20:31 PilzAdam done
20:31 hmmmm erm troller, that doesn't really help matters.. NoiseIndevParams will be partially filled with junk if it is not written to by the config
20:31 hmmmm actually s/noise/zero/
20:31 PilzAdam now upstream is pullable again
20:32 troller hmmmm, but when it can be filled not from defaultsettings.cpp ?
20:33 hmmmm when someone creates a MapgenParams structure somewhere else in the code
20:36 RealBadAngel ok, im fixing now screwdriver mod
20:36 PilzAdam in the current implementation its not possible for stairs and slabs to use the 6d facedir
20:36 hmmmm wait !?!
20:37 hmmmm i thought that was tested already to work
20:37 PilzAdam we need to copy whole item_place_node into the mod
20:37 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, everything that uses facedir is working with 6d
20:38 PilzAdam yea, its what needs to be done to make stairs and slabs using it
20:39 PilzAdam it currently creates a fakestack with upside down node and calls item_place with it
20:39 VanessaE latest git w/6d + luajit linked in is now deployed to my server.
20:39 PilzAdam its not possible to pass param2 to item_place
20:40 hmmmm uh oh
20:40 hmmmm vanessa, don't be in such a hurry...
20:40 PilzAdam but if I copy a slightly modified version of item_place_node to I could also fix the slab to full block transformation in creative mod bug
20:40 VanessaE hmmmm: my server's kinda meant for testing stuff anyway.  if it breaks, I'm not too worried, but everything seems to be normal.
20:41 hmmmm also, unintentional, but neat.. anyone like this type of ore?  http://ompldr.org/vaHYwcQ
20:41 VanessaE hmmmm: YES!
20:41 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, 6d change doesnt interefere with placing nodes code or whatever
20:41 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, yes
20:42 RealBadAngel if you want to use the feature just do so
20:42 PilzAdam Im just talking about how to make slabs and stairs use it
20:42 RealBadAngel screwdriver :)
20:42 PilzAdam hmmmm, NO!
20:42 RealBadAngel also new placement code is needed
20:43 PilzAdam in what way?
20:45 RealBadAngel look dir to facedir need changes
20:47 RealBadAngel old version does care only for y+ axisdir
20:48 RealBadAngel placement code need to be changed to place up/down pistons for example
20:48 VanessaE there, refreshed my latest build - something was odd with the commit IDs
20:49 VanessaE server is now on the very latest git of all four components.
20:49 RealBadAngel how is the memory usage now?
20:49 VanessaE let me check
20:49 VanessaE hold.
20:50 Exio well, most of devs, what about my "idea" of adding common, at least as git submodule?
20:50 VanessaE preload item visuals....ON.  512px enabled.  loading.
20:50 Exio afaik you don't download it by default when just doing "git clone ..."
20:51 VanessaE client at 6GB resident and counting.
20:52 VanessaE 6.2GB
20:52 VanessaE loaded.
20:52 Exio preload item visuals should be called "Ram Killer"
20:52 VanessaE it'll add a few hundred megs once there's plenty of map loaded around me
20:52 VanessaE wow
20:52 VanessaE 30 fps
20:52 VanessaE oh how I missed this
20:53 Exio hehe
20:53 VanessaE my memory usage went down by about 500 MB I would guess.
20:53 Exio try to open minecraf with a 512x texture pack
20:53 Exio the counter will start using FPM than FPS ^^
20:54 Exio instead of*
20:54 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/E51fjSG.png
20:54 VanessaE I can still outrun the map generator though, but only when I'm in an area with lots of big trees
20:54 RealBadAngel ^^regarding stairs
20:55 Exio i can't with default in my bulldozer 6100
20:55 VanessaE s/map generator/map loader-sender/
20:55 Exio before, i was able to reach "non generated chunks"
20:55 Exio now i can barely with super-speed ^^
20:55 RealBadAngel VanessaE, so 6dfacedir speeded up the game for you?
20:55 VanessaE RealBadAngel: immensely.
20:55 VanessaE well, let's call it "significantly"
20:56 RealBadAngel good :)
20:57 RealBadAngel i think i will try to connect to your server with hdx
20:57 RealBadAngel last time my 4gbs wasnt enough to do so
20:57 VanessaE I'm at 7.3GB used now
20:57 VanessaE (but a lot of that is map data)
20:58 Exio is there any way in the config to define "the render distance" of the "limited view distance"??
20:58 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, when I have the facedir that I get with minetest.dir_to_facedir(), what do I have to do with param2 to get it upside down?
20:58 VanessaE Exio: viewing_range_nodes_max = 100
20:58 VanessaE viewing_range_nodes_min = 100
20:59 Exio thanks ^^
20:59 VanessaE (that's my default setting, since I don't like the autotuner)
20:59 RealBadAngel 0-3 are old values, means top of the node is facing y+
20:59 RealBadAngel axisdir is 0 then
20:59 RealBadAngel you need axisdir=5 to get top facing y-
20:59 PilzAdam so just add 4?
20:59 RealBadAngel 5*4
21:00 RealBadAngel range 20-23 will be rotations with top facing y-
21:01 PilzAdam doesnt work with facedir = 1 and 3
21:01 RealBadAngel are you using facedirtools?
21:01 PilzAdam nope
21:01 RealBadAngel try
21:01 PilzAdam why?
21:01 RealBadAngel the tool will show you how to use new facedir
21:02 PilzAdam I want stairs to be flipped upside down
21:02 PilzAdam so I add 20 to param2
21:02 RealBadAngel so set facedir=20
21:02 PilzAdam it works when the old facedir is 0 or 2
21:02 PilzAdam but not for 1 and 3
21:03 PilzAdam if its 1 it acts like it was 3
21:03 PilzAdam and the other way round
21:04 RealBadAngel nope, tested
21:04 RealBadAngel hold on for screenshot
21:05 thexyz um.. add 20?
21:06 thexyz lua api doesn't specify how facedir is calculated, so it's unsafe to rely on magic like that
21:06 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/1ReegtT.png
21:06 celeron55 umm i think i know what PilzAdam is seeing
21:06 thexyz "implementation-dependent"
21:06 PilzAdam what I do is minetest.dir_to_facedir(dir) + 20
21:06 RealBadAngel from left to right
21:06 RealBadAngel 20 to 23
21:07 celeron55 PilzAdam: the stairs rotate to a different direction when looking from the same static position, when they are upside down
21:07 PilzAdam now place 0 to 3 in front of them
21:07 celeron55 because they rotate with respect to the axis that defines whether they are upside down or upside up
21:09 prestidigitator left #minetest-dev
21:09 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/JQdzx2j.jpg
21:10 RealBadAngel first row is axisdir y+, second row is y-
21:10 VanessaE everything is defined relative to where the node's natural "top" face is pointed.
21:10 VanessaE so in the first row, the natural top face points toward Y+, while in the back row it points to Y-
21:11 celeron55 RealBadAngel: so exactly; looking from up, the other rotates clockwise, the other counter-clockwise
21:11 RealBadAngel i suggest using facedirdools
21:11 RealBadAngel strongly
21:12 RealBadAngel and see how rotations works
21:12 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/facedirtools
21:13 RealBadAngel to see right direction of rotations player shall look in the very same direction
21:13 RealBadAngel i mean look dir = axisdir
21:14 RealBadAngel theyre all counter-clock wise
21:15 RealBadAngel but when you will look at face you will see it clock wise
21:16 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, use mode 3 of screwdriver to change axisdir
21:16 RealBadAngel then set it to mode 1 to change rotations
21:18 RealBadAngel in console it will be dumped in format (axisdir,rotation)
21:23 celeron55 thexyz: that is true; but RBA didn't provide a specification for how dir_to_facedir should be extended
21:24 RealBadAngel the function needs to be rewritten
21:24 RealBadAngel shall i do that?
21:25 celeron55 well, directly modifying the parameters of a node can't be the official API method of doing the thing
21:25 RealBadAngel of course
21:27 RealBadAngel but im not quite sure how the placement prediction should be done
21:27 RealBadAngel i will try to write some and test it to find best solution
21:29 RealBadAngel but anyways the screwdriver shall become a default tool
21:29 VanessaE agreed.
21:29 RealBadAngel its way too handy, were already for old facedir
21:29 RealBadAngel now it is absolute must-have
21:30 celeron55 we can't include a modern screwdriver in the game, as the main game's world is situated in such a point of time that screwdrivers simply didn't exist
21:31 celeron55 or, well
21:31 RealBadAngel so lets call it crowbar
21:31 VanessaE celeron55: what IS the time period you're trying to model anyway?
21:32 celeron55 it might also be necessary (or actually, is) that the tool is logically useless in survival gameplay
21:32 celeron55 VanessaE: i don't really know
21:32 VanessaE because screwdrivers have been around since the late 15th century\
21:32 RealBadAngel cmon, we do have already force fields and stargates in game ;)
21:33 celeron55 no we don't, they are independent mods
21:33 thexyz VanessaE: well, it obvious, screwdrivers don't exist yet mese does
21:33 thexyz VanessaE: can't you remember?
21:33 VanessaE heh
21:34 RealBadAngel celeron55, ofc in mods, but we do
21:34 celeron55 i don't know where to set the aim here
21:34 RealBadAngel so maybe rename it to crowbar?
21:34 RealBadAngel its not so modern lookin :)
21:35 celeron55 okay let's say it can be a screwdriver, but it cannot look like plastic and galvanised metal
21:35 VanessaE crowbar to flip the object over, screwdriver to rotate it around the current Y axis.
21:35 VanessaE that's how I'd do it
21:35 RealBadAngel you dont like modes idea?
21:37 VanessaE some users may get confused by that
21:37 RealBadAngel celeron55, have you tried screwdriver?
21:37 PilzAdam celeron55, my plan how to handle such requests is to just add it to the "Build" game, and let survival be the good game :-)
21:37 celeron55 i'd say default's world is basically "a human being having been thrown in the middle of nowhere in 1850
21:37 celeron55 "
21:37 VanessaE celeron55: that sounds fair enough.
21:38 VanessaE that's "wild west" territory in US-speak ;-)
21:38 RealBadAngel so 350yrs after screwdriver was invented
21:38 celeron55 or maybe 1800
21:38 celeron55 or 1750 - but something like that
21:39 PilzAdam https://github.com/PilzAdam/common/commits/stairs
21:39 PilzAdam stairs and slabs that use 6d facedir
21:40 PilzAdam but I dunno about this, it feels rather hacky
21:40 VanessaE PilzAdam: don't forget to convert whatever is already in the map
21:41 VanessaE (so that you can delete the extraneous nodes)
21:41 PilzAdam the upside_down nodes are still registered
21:41 RealBadAngel imho no need to
21:41 PilzAdam and its the best solution IMO, since ABMs are slow
21:41 RealBadAngel all extra nodes drops one default
21:42 VanessaE RealBadAngel: final report on memory:  without item preload enabled, I seem to hover around 6.3GB or so with 512px.  with it enabled, about 7.6Gb or so seems about right.  Before 6d, I guess I used about 400MB more than now.
21:42 RealBadAngel so user will have just to pick them up and place again
21:42 VanessaE PilzAdam: abms only trigger if there is a node to trigger them with.
21:42 VanessaE so after all stairs in an area have been translated, the abm has nothing left to operate on, so it doesn't run
21:43 celeron55 PilzAdam: wouldn't after_place_node be useful for that?
21:43 RealBadAngel 400mb less for a change that actually adds functionality is quite good, dont ya think? :)
21:43 VanessaE RealBadAngel: quite so.  that's just a rough guess based on past numbers, but it seems right to me.
21:43 PilzAdam celeron55, no, you dont get pointed_thing there
21:47 hmmmm hah.  does it actually matter? just leave the screwdriver in there
21:47 hmmmm i like it
21:48 RealBadAngel how many uses shall it have?
21:49 PilzAdam add it to "Build", but with a wooden grip
21:50 VanessaE RealBadAngel: as many as it has now, even in the old days a screwdriver would still last a while
21:50 RealBadAngel hehe by now its infinite :)
21:50 VanessaE I mean as many uses as the one in technic
21:51 VanessaE (that's the one I'm used to)
21:51 RealBadAngel ok
21:51 PilzAdam VanessaE, what about the bones mod in survival: https://github.com/minetest/survival/pull/1 ?
21:51 RealBadAngel btw, it appears that Jeija have code for my portals idea for 2 months already
21:52 VanessaE PilzAdam: if I were playing survival, I think I'd be mildly against that, but I won't stand in your way on it.
21:52 VanessaE since I play in creative these days
21:52 celeron55 ...why is PilzAdam asking survival stuff from VanessaE?
21:52 PilzAdam whom should I ask else?
21:53 celeron55 good question
21:53 celeron55 well, you can ask me 8)
21:53 PilzAdam IIRC you wanted the bones mod to be added?
21:54 celeron55 i say throw it in; if it turns out not working, it can be removed
21:54 RealBadAngel https://github.com/Jeija/minetest/tree/rejoin
21:54 RealBadAngel have you guys seen that?
21:54 Exio i think the items should "dissapear" after some time
21:54 celeron55 we can have a nice period of just throwing stuff in and seeing if it works now - feel free to take advantage of it
21:54 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, yes
21:54 celeron55 (for survival and build)
21:55 Exio so if you didn't get it in like... 2 hours? (configurable) you just lost the stuff
21:55 RealBadAngel what do you think about it?
21:56 PilzAdam Exio, after 20 minutest the items are opened to the public
21:57 Exio i saw
21:57 Exio but imo the stuff should not be "permanent" in the ground or so
21:57 PilzAdam hm...
21:57 PilzAdam dunno
21:58 Exio if not, you got killed in lava
21:58 VanessaE PilzAdam: that one bug about the bones node occasionally replacing things when it appears, has that been fixed?
21:58 Exio and you take your time for removing it node per node
21:58 Exio 2 days later you get your stuff like before
22:01 PilzAdam VanessaE, the bones replace everything
22:01 VanessaE I mean replacing nodes in the world, i.e. it appears in place of a dirt node.
22:02 PilzAdam only if you die inside a block
22:04 celeron55 that's not a real problem in survival
22:04 celeron55 well... okay, maybe it is, because it is exploitable in multiplayer
22:05 PilzAdam I somone would fix that you can place nodes in yourself, then it wouldnt be a big problem
22:05 PilzAdam *someone
22:05 celeron55 that won't make a practical difference
22:06 hmmmm guys, about luajit, did we add BitOp to Lua yet?
22:06 hmmmm I want luajit to be official soon
22:06 PilzAdam hmmmm, Jeija's particlespawner is rebased
22:06 hmmmm ah excellent
22:06 hmmmm what was the other thing that required the network version to be bumped
22:06 PilzAdam I tested it a bit and it seems to work
22:07 hmmmm backface_culling?
22:07 PilzAdam yep
22:07 hmmmm 'k, both of those then
22:07 hmmmm will you commit that?
22:08 PilzAdam what? the backface_culling thing?
22:08 hmmmm yea
22:08 celeron55 what is this backface_culling thing?
22:08 hmmmm isn't that what it's called?
22:08 Exio hey, stop adding features and stuff, i can't finish compiling the last git without having to do other git pull :(
22:08 Exio :P
22:09 hmmmm this https://github.com/doserj/minetest/commit/75fe6d3e0c7d81405b833a476ca196e2c24eb8ab
22:09 PilzAdam https://github.com/doserj/minetest/commit/75fe6d3e0c7d81405b833a476ca196e2c24eb8ab
22:09 PilzAdam oh
22:10 celeron55 if you bump the protocol version, there's also the rightclickable nodedef field waiting to be placed in a final position in a serialized nodedef (altough it might just as well be at the end like it is now)
22:12 celeron55 i really should figure out the final form of the BinaryKeyValueList thing in the meta_set_nodedef branch, it'd allow much more robust and flexible serialization
22:12 hmmmm rightclickable nodedef?
22:12 hmmmm i've heard that phrase before but i have no knowledge about this at all
22:13 celeron55 just a boolean nodedef field
22:13 hmmmm what, does that trigger some lua event on right click?
22:14 celeron55 it tells the client it's supposed to inform the server in a raw way if the player rightclicks a node instead of placing something or expecting a formspec
22:14 celeron55 this is the kind of lua/network stuff you probably don't want to care about :P
22:15 hmmmm "don't want to care about" - i like how that's phrased because it's so true
22:16 hmmmm i care about too many things already, any more and i'll lose quality for quantity
22:16 * celeron55 knows the basics of management
22:17 PilzAdam https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commits/test
22:17 PilzAdam everything fine?
22:17 PilzAdam (btw: nice branchname, isnt it? :-))
22:17 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/3JRscCQ.png
22:17 RealBadAngel any better?
22:18 hmmmm hah, that positioning makes me feel like i'm going to stab somebody with that screwdriver
22:18 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, what resolution is it?
22:19 celeron55 RealBadAngel: do not make the rotation values behave differently regarding to the face direction - if that is what you have done
22:20 PilzAdam is the branch good to merge?
22:20 troller https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/555/files - mapgenindev larger far biomes + floatlands + tunes caves
22:20 RealBadAngel afaik theyre all clockwise when you look at the top face
22:20 celeron55 RealBadAngel: it must behave in a constant way; think of a game on minetest where you move freely in 3D space with no top or bottom or left or right or anything
22:21 celeron55 RealBadAngel: you do not want inconsistent behavior on that; it would be suicide
22:21 celeron55 suicide design
22:21 celeron55 it's a new term for this!
22:21 RealBadAngel it took us 3 days (nights rather) me and khonkortisian to test it
22:21 hmmmm that design makes me want to commit sudoku
22:21 RealBadAngel lol
22:23 RealBadAngel celeron55, ive decided to take top face as pointer. it always points the axisdir
22:24 RealBadAngel use screwdriver mode 4 to bring top face in pointed one
22:24 RealBadAngel and then rotate it
22:24 VanessaE it sounds like the node is rotated around the Y axis first, then the top is re-oriented to point to whatever face the extended facedir says
22:24 RealBadAngel nothing is reorientated
22:25 RealBadAngel old facedir is case when top points y+
22:25 RealBadAngel top of a chest, or furnace or whatever
22:25 celeron55 i want it so that if you look a node at the top face side and rotate it, it will always rotate eg. counter clockwise independently of what axis the top is actually pointing in world coordinates (i think this is what you now have)
22:25 hmmmm hm just a side question.. why is sandstone dirtlike?
22:26 RealBadAngel all are counter-clock wise, as old facedir was
22:26 RealBadAngel but remember when you will look at rotated face your view dir is different
22:26 RealBadAngel so you will see it rotating clockwise
22:27 RealBadAngel to see real rotations you would have to stand behind node
22:27 PilzAdam hmmmm, all the 3 commits about the protocoll version: https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commits/test is it good to merge?
22:27 celeron55 PilzAdam: i think it's probably good (just had time to look through these)
22:28 hmmmm yeah it looks good
22:29 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, screwdriver has modes displayed on it (they have to be in greater resolution to be readable and lookin nice) so the screwdriver is upscaled to 128x but with bigger pixels. So it looks like it was 16x
22:30 VanessaE RealBadAngel: alternative:  display a colored square in one corner to indicate the mode.  red->yellow->green->purple maybe
22:30 VanessaE then you can get by with a true 16px image.
22:30 celeron55 or rotate the screwdriver? 8)
22:30 RealBadAngel lol
22:31 RealBadAngel upside down would be lookin like you are trying to stab yourself with it :)
22:31 VanessaE or a colored band on the handle is better
22:32 RealBadAngel it shows messages anyway
22:33 PilzAdam since the backface_culling works now, should new_style_water be true by default?
22:33 RealBadAngel but i like that idea with modes, i can configure my tools and keep more preconfigured tools on hotbar and switch
22:34 celeron55 PilzAdam: of course now; it's looks bad and performs bad
22:34 celeron55 not*
22:34 PilzAdam heh, nice typo :-)
22:36 Exio so, will someone update http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog#0.4.5_.E2.86.92_.3F ?
22:37 PilzAdam yes
22:38 RealBadAngel so what about screwdriver? different coloured handle or keep with modes number?
22:39 Exio i'd say the color
22:39 Exio but i'm just an user!
22:39 RealBadAngel numbers are easier to remember as for me
22:40 celeron55 leave the number for now
22:50 PilzAdam Exio, done
22:57 hmmmm hmm
22:58 hmmmm pilzadam, what do you think about making furnaces a light source while active?
22:58 hmmmm how hard would that be in lua?
22:58 Exio one line
22:58 VanessaE I thought they already were>
22:58 VanessaE ?
22:58 PilzAdam they are
22:59 PilzAdam hmmmm, buy some glasses
22:59 hmmmm they are?wtf hold on
22:59 PilzAdam init.lua:1547
22:59 PilzAdam (of common/default)
23:00 hmmmm ahh
23:00 hmmmm man why did i not see this
23:01 Exio hahaha
23:06 PilzAdam aw, man, I want to push something
23:07 hmmmm reminds me of that static-X song, "push it"
23:08 RealBadAngel http://realbadangel.pl/screwdriver.zip
23:08 RealBadAngel can somebody try it?
23:24 celeron55 joined #minetest-dev
23:30 rarkenin_ Given a name, is it possible to get a peer id within C++? How id this done?
23:32 RealBadAngel hold on
23:37 RealBadAngel getPlayer(name)->peer_id)
23:39 celeron55 Segmentation Fault
23:40 RealBadAngel celeron55, due to what?
23:42 hmmmm because getPlayer can return null if name isn't found
23:42 hmmmm perhaps
23:43 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/scriptapi.cpp#L790
23:43 RealBadAngel there is example
23:44 rarkenin_ OK.
23:46 RealBadAngel so what about screwdriver? PilzAdam?
23:46 PilzAdam its fine for "Build" game, I guess
23:47 RealBadAngel imho it shall go for all the modes...
23:47 RealBadAngel hmmmm, celeron55?
23:47 PilzAdam no, it definetly doesnt go into survival
23:48 hmmmm i didn't try the screwdriver
23:48 hmmmm don't really have an opinion of it, i think it's fine though
23:48 RealBadAngel so try :)
23:49 hmmmm busy
23:49 hmmmm i'll try it when i grab the latest minetest_game and other things
23:49 PilzAdam what does a screwdriver add to survival gameplay?
23:49 RealBadAngel ability to rotate facedired nodes
23:49 celeron55 PilzAdam: i agree that for real survival, it's useless
23:50 celeron55 but it's useful for many build-focused games so put it in common
23:50 RealBadAngel not really
23:50 RealBadAngel it allows to rotate things like wires, delayers, all discrete stuff
23:51 RealBadAngel building circuits with it is much easier
23:52 celeron55 the point of having these different games is that we can make them *actually* focus on different things; the build game is going to be much closer to minetest_game than the survival one will be
23:52 RealBadAngel also truth
23:53 RealBadAngel so let it be in build then
23:53 kaeza1 joined #minetest-dev
23:53 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, will you merge it?
23:54 PilzAdam in wich mod should it be?
23:54 celeron55 or, actually, i don't even know if the last sentence is correct
23:54 RealBadAngel its standalone mod
23:54 celeron55 i don't have enough experience of the building part of minetest that i could know
23:54 PilzAdam celeron55, I agree to that sentence
23:55 PilzAdam the building part is about a lot of funny blocks to place
23:55 celeron55 PilzAdam: leave it as a separate mod; there is no reason not to
23:55 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, then add it to common
23:55 RealBadAngel celeron55, believe me this tool is extremaly useful. it was even before 6d facedir
23:57 RealBadAngel building out of small parts like microblocks, slabs, panels with screwdriver is just easy

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext