Time Nick Message 00:27 hmmmm no idea... i never worked with formspec so i don't know what it needs or doesn't need.. you should ask somebody who does that 00:27 hmmmm [11:53 AM] * Calinou disagrees with debug.txt generation being enabled again <---- celeron said to make it 2 00:28 hmmmm and @ vanessa, 1 is the necessary level (errorstream/dstream) for mod loading failures et cetera, even though you can still see it in the console itself 00:33 ShadowNinja formspec_escape would basicaly just do three gsubs(find and replace) on the string provided 00:42 VanessaE hmmmm: right, though in my case there's no console to see in practice (e.g. if a mod crashes some time after the server has been started and backgrounded) 00:42 hmmmm why don't you just use screen? 00:42 VanessaE I do, actually. 00:42 hmmmm then wut 00:42 VanessaE I'm just too lazy to look up the proper way to attach to it :) 00:42 hmmmm / 00:43 VanessaE it's been no less than 10 years since I last used screen, prior to a couple weeks ago 00:43 hmmmm type 'screen', run your program, then ctrl+a+d 00:43 hmmmm then when you want to reattach, screen -r 00:43 VanessaE ah, that's right.. -r 00:43 VanessaE anyways I start the server at boot time from rc.local 00:43 proller runned at arm at 50-60 fps, but without picture 8) 00:44 VanessaE proller: the phrase "without picture" and the term fps" do not belong in the same sentence :-) 00:44 VanessaE my cadillac can do 150 mph...in the driveway :) 00:44 proller with sound! 00:45 proller i can walk 00:46 hmmmm doesn't matter, the draw took no time at all because it failed 00:47 proller segfault was from missing #define IRR_OGLES2_SHADER_PATH "../../media/Shaders/" 00:58 proller something wrong in COGLES2Driver::addRenderTargetTexture 01:06 proller and finish: addRenderTargetTexture in examples/13.RenderToTexture doesnt works in gles2, same black screen as in minetest with GL_INVALID_OPERATION in console 01:08 proller will test on slooowberry pi 06:05 hmmmm i feel like weblate is a bit too commit-message-spammy 06:06 hmmmm is there any way to squash all the different languages into one commit 06:11 thexyz only manually 06:20 hmmmm erm.. in what version exactly were the 3d player models added? 07:05 hmmmm anyway if you guys could fill this out more http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog that would be great. please keep things orderly and categorized like i have it. i didn't add in any bugfixes, nor did i add in anything lua-related 07:09 hmmmm you can judge if something is a "big feature" or a "smaller addition and/or change" if the change took 1000 lines of code or 10 lines of code 10:23 rubenwardy hi all 14:17 PilzAdam thexyz, can I get a @minetest.net email address? 14:17 thexyz sure 14:17 thexyz pilzadam@minetest.net? 14:17 PilzAdam yep 16:46 proller build with egl - pull or not ? https://github.com/proller/minetest/commit/abd2f4575cae86307e2f2171b28af2d4ddecd40a 16:49 hmmmm not now 16:57 RealBadAngel hmmm, i found by accident a nice piece of code 16:57 RealBadAngel sound played local only, no cache 16:57 RealBadAngel and it works 16:57 RealBadAngel dunno who made it 16:58 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/game.cpp#L847 16:58 RealBadAngel i modified my technic ambience mod to play music without cache 16:59 RealBadAngel its clearly a way to make all sounds to be played by clients 17:00 RealBadAngel i mean those ambience ones, not player interactions 18:36 thexyz hmmmm: why not? 18:36 thexyz also, what stops us from releasing 0.4.5 right now? 18:46 hmmmm because we said it was a week... 18:46 hmmmm also, people _have_ been testing, right? 18:46 RealBadAngel i say 10 random bugs that not being fixed, hows so? ;) 18:46 hmmmm what bugs 18:47 RealBadAngel just jokin, the time was taken to eventually fix some bugs 18:47 RealBadAngel but i could point a few old ones if needed :) 18:48 hmmmm ehh that's okay. 18:48 hmmmm we just want to make sure that the new stuff we put in works 18:48 RealBadAngel yeah 18:48 hmmmm monday is going to be a shitstorm 18:48 hmmmm we make the "Bump version to 0.4.5" commit and then compile for everything and release... who is in charge of the releasing? 18:48 RealBadAngel personally i will remove two bugs soon 18:49 RealBadAngel one with too many vertices/indices 18:49 thexyz we only compile for win32, don't we? 18:49 RealBadAngel and second with nodeboxes coords need to be sorted 18:50 hmmmm well what about the ubuntu ppa 18:50 thexyz any idea who has access to it? 18:50 VanessaE forget the ppa, we need to get rid of 0.3.x from the ubuntu upstream repos 18:50 Jordach hmmmm, yeah, there is going to be a *MEGA* shitstorm 18:51 thexyz VanessaE: you mean, debian? 18:52 VanessaE thexyz: any of the debian-based distros; I don't know which packages the Ubuntu team gets from Debian vs. direct from the various upstream projects 18:52 thexyz we probably should just contact maintainer http://packages.debian.org/unstable/main/minetest 18:52 hmmmm and i need to email the freebsd port maintainer too about it. proller did that once before, he had to email him some sort of patch if i remember correctly? what's with that? we don't need any patches at all, it works out of the box 18:52 hmmmm also what about the mac os x 18:52 thexyz hm.. 18:53 thexyz well, I can try to set up virtual machine 18:53 darkrose jnumm does ppa stuff, according to my logs 18:53 hmmmm i have a mac os x 10.8 virtual machine set up already 18:53 hmmmm wonder if i should do that at least? 18:54 * Calinou joins thexyz in the "update a debian package" war 18:54 RealBadAngel btw, the bugs are reality, we know many. i suggest to make a similar to TODO list naming them and makin folks responsible to remove them 18:54 RealBadAngel ie split tasks 18:54 hmmmm the bug tracker on github is full of crap though 18:54 thexyz hmmmm: i think that's not really needed to be done before 0.4.5 release 18:54 VanessaE I think assigning bugs to various individuals might be a bad idea, but more attention is certainly needed in a few places for sure 18:54 RealBadAngel not really 18:54 VanessaE both on the engine and the game 18:54 thexyz it looks more like "feature requests" tracker 18:55 hmmmm yeah for real ^ 18:55 RealBadAngel "bug hunter" 18:55 thexyz plz add that 18:55 thexyz no that 18:55 hmmmm i honestly don't have much patience to go around bug tracking, especially when there's so much more stuff to do 18:56 hmmmm like if i come across a bug and it's easy to fix or it's related to what i'm doing, i'll fix it, but.. 18:56 Calinou an "issue" isn't only for bugs, it's for feature requests too 18:56 Calinou there are labels, but only people who can push stuff to upstream can put these 18:57 hmmmm i kinda wish i can freeze time for a week or something and just focus all time and effort on minetest to make a real dent in the todo list 18:57 VanessaE hmmmm: well to that end, c55 did say on the blog this was supposed to go for a *month* 18:57 VanessaE not a week 18:58 hmmmm ?? 18:58 hmmmm the freeze? 18:58 VanessaE *nod*\ 18:58 hmmmm that, my friend, is ridiculous and unnecessary 18:58 VanessaE "Many bugs have been fixed since 0.4.4 and I would have hoped for 0.4.5 to be released a month or two ago, but we have ended up on somewhat a rolling release model with mods already using features from unreleased versions and many people making unofficial Windows builds. We’ll try to make a proper release in a month or so, as/if a more suitable time is found" 18:58 hmmmm we're already getting crunched up by not committing things for a week 18:59 VanessaE I might tend to agree actually - a month is more time than we need to push 0.4.5, but a week might not be enough. 18:59 Jordach we should cut the bullshit and release a new version every two months 18:59 Jordach then windows users are at least in some form of sync with latest 19:00 VanessaE Jordach: unofficial builds took care of that ages ago. 19:00 Jordach VanessaE, yes, but people who think stable is stable and not going to break. 19:00 RealBadAngel so stop that model 19:00 darkrose unnoficial builds don't officially exist 19:01 Jordach even off. every month 19:01 VanessaE darkrose: perhaps, but at least it isn't "they officially don't exist" :) 19:01 RealBadAngel im not releasing 6d facedir because i realize many mods will have to be rewritten 19:01 VanessaE RealBadAngel: well, they'll have to be *to use that feature* 19:01 RealBadAngel that can be the time between 0.4.5 and next stable 19:01 VanessaE but it's not like you're planning to break it 19:02 RealBadAngel no, not break, but to use they gonna need time 19:02 RealBadAngel you and me too 19:02 VanessaE yeah 19:02 RealBadAngel also calinou and jeija 19:02 VanessaE but this is offtopic 19:05 hmmmm now hold on a minute 19:05 hmmmm "stable" simply means you have most of the bugs ironed out and you're aware of most of the issues 19:06 VanessaE that's how I always figured it 19:06 hmmmm realbadangel, how will the 6d facedir thing break mods? 19:06 VanessaE hmmmm: it won't. 19:06 RealBadAngel no 19:06 hmmmm then wtf? 19:06 Jordach it only breaks mods using the current facedir system 19:06 VanessaE he's referring to the ability to rotate things in all directions arbitrarily, mods will have to be rewritten to support that feature 19:06 RealBadAngel but will force complete rewrite of them for benefits 19:07 VanessaE think of placing a pipe and having it bend in whatever direction it needs to without requiring 6 differnet models. 19:07 VanessaE (for each shape) 19:07 RealBadAngel cut number of needed node definitions for 1/4th to 1/2 19:07 VanessaE Jordach: no, it doesn't. 19:07 hmmmm well 19:07 hmmmm my take on the mod breakage thing is to go ahead with it, and make the breakage well known 19:07 RealBadAngel also for example vertical mesecons wont be needed anymore 19:07 hmmmm give people some time to fix it before the new release 19:08 hmmmm if a big mod is broken by it, fix it yourself 19:08 RealBadAngel instead wires will be able to climb walls and hang on ceilings 19:08 VanessaE hmmmm: agreed - as long as it is predictable, publicized, and at least is easy enough to fix 19:08 Exio why is not the 0.4.5 "already released" exactly? because testers? who is doing some "testing" in the release in that case? 19:09 RealBadAngel we are not talking here about breaking, but bringing a revolution to them 19:09 thexyz of course it can break mods 19:09 hmmmm people using the unofficial win32 builds, and everybody here basically 19:09 VanessaE Exio: because there are still at least a few bugs that need to be worked out, or at the very least, tested to the point that we can be sure nothing's wrong 19:09 thexyz what if i use facedir += 1 to rotate clockwise? that'd be broken 19:09 RealBadAngel any old code unaware of the changes will work as before 19:09 hmmmm was that ever documented? 19:10 VanessaE thexyz: sure, but that's an example of something that's easy to fix 19:10 RealBadAngel y+ rotation case is just the old facedir 19:10 VanessaE plus you know as well as anyone never to rely on undocumented behavior. 19:10 hmmmm that incrementing facedir shall rotate it clockwise 19:10 hmmmm because if it wasn't documented, then it's their fault, so fuckem 19:10 RealBadAngel stop please now 19:10 RealBadAngel original one is counter clock wise 19:11 RealBadAngel 0,-90, 180, 90 19:11 darkrose does it break _game? if not it's not our problem 19:11 thexyz hmmmm: why? 19:11 hmmmm nothing is broken 19:11 hmmmm thexyz, because we never said so and they're assuming 19:11 RealBadAngel i kept the pattern 19:11 thexyz hmmmm: there are documented angles/directions 19:11 hmmmm RealBadAngel, so it's not even a problem at all? 19:11 RealBadAngel no 19:12 RealBadAngel not even a smallest one 19:12 thexyz how else would you use facedir without knowing how it rotates 19:12 hmmmm thexyz, so it is documented that if you increment facedir, it'll rotate coutnerclockwise? 19:12 VanessaE hmmmm: thexyz's corner case is the only one I can think of that would break. 19:12 VanessaE and no one with an ounce of brains would do that anyway :) 19:12 RealBadAngel new facedir is in fact two values in one 19:12 thexyz oh, i see, facedir isn't documented at all 19:12 thexyz well, fine then 19:12 RealBadAngel it is 19:13 RealBadAngel you dont read forums, dont you? ;) 19:13 hmmmm they should be using minetest.dir_to_facedir() from what i just found in lua_api.txt 19:13 thexyz yeah 19:13 VanessaE come to think of it, it *isn't* properly documented, is it. 19:13 hmmmm RBA just said he made sure that works 19:13 RealBadAngel this function will be unaffected 19:13 hmmmm but my point is that even if it didn't work, it's not our problem 19:13 VanessaE at least, the value range isn't 19:13 RealBadAngel old facedir cases will be used as prediction for placing 19:14 RealBadAngel because old facedir is a subset of new one 19:14 RealBadAngel new facedir means the rotation around the axis 19:14 RealBadAngel with top face facing it 19:15 thexyz fine, fine 19:15 RealBadAngel as the old one was 19:15 thexyz that was the case i just made up 19:15 RealBadAngel top facing y++ and clock counter wise rotations around it 19:16 thexyz so, is release planned on monday? 19:16 hmmmm yes 19:16 VanessaE wait wait 19:16 VanessaE that isn't consistent with what c55 indicated 19:16 VanessaE (at least in the blog) 19:17 thexyz hm? 19:17 hmmmm what, in that post? so? 19:17 hmmmm i don't want a rolling release 19:17 VanessaE nonono 19:17 VanessaE the "a months or so" part. 19:17 VanessaE -s 19:17 thexyz >We’ll try to make a proper release in a month or so, as/if a more suitable time is found. 19:17 thexyz or so 19:17 hmmmm he just said "we ended up on a somewhat" 19:17 thexyz why not? 19:17 RealBadAngel as far as i remember c55 was lately forcing freeze and release asap 19:17 VanessaE hrm 19:17 RealBadAngel not waiting 19:18 thexyz release is the only thing which stops us now from adding New And Awesome features 19:18 hmmmm on monday here's what i want to happen: 19:18 thexyz why should we delay it? seems everything works fine 19:18 thexyz except macs, they suck 19:18 hmmmm we slap the 0.4.5 label on it, and official builds are compiled from this commit 19:18 RealBadAngel and was disguisted by that we wanted to add *this and *that before and gave up 19:18 thexyz hmmmm: win32? 19:18 hmmmm we can continue on committing things after that 19:19 hmmmm yeah 19:19 hmmmm win32 19:19 proller hmmmm, no problem with freebsd port, i can make update and submit pr or i know where maintainer in irc 19:19 VanessaE mmmh 19:19 thexyz i can do that 19:19 hmmmm just curious, for the official win32 builds, do you use MSVC or mingw? 19:19 thexyz msvc2010 19:19 hmmmm proller, thanks 19:19 thexyz like celeron55 did 19:19 hmmmm okay 19:19 VanessaE the issue I see is if we go ahead and call it 0.4.5, are we prepared to deal with the backlash of "wtf? This bug has existed since version x.y.z and still isn't fixed??" and the like 19:20 hmmmm we can make releases as often as we'd like 19:20 hmmmm besides, that'd happen with any version 19:20 VanessaE sure, of course 19:20 RealBadAngel i really see sense in makin "bug hunter" list 19:20 RealBadAngel not by users, but by devs 19:20 VanessaE my point is, pick some random, old, irritating bug and fix that *before* 0.4.5 19:21 VanessaE like that one where you have to jiggle the mouse after using a formspec 19:21 hmmmm alright let's see, issues with the bug label 19:22 VanessaE (or anything really, that is visible to most users) 19:23 hmmmm but wait a minute 19:23 hmmmm we aren't doing anything like this so late in the game 19:23 hmmmm seriously it's not too big of an issue, the crap that's in 0.4.5 is enough to make everybody love it 19:23 thexyz yeah 19:23 thexyz so, changelog 19:24 hmmmm besides 19:24 RealBadAngel indeed 19:24 Exio hmmmm: didn't you fix that emergethread super-big bug? 19:24 thexyz we also need some way to post update at minetest.net 19:24 thexyz (I don't have access to it) 19:24 hmmmm maybe we can have 0.4.x where x is even bugfix releases or whatever 19:24 hmmmm i don't know 19:24 hmmmm no that'll screw up our development model 19:24 hmmmm there's NO NEED TO CHANGE WHAT ISN'T BROKEN 19:24 hmmmm Exio, yeah i did 19:24 RealBadAngel but we have to remove the bugs in the future 19:24 Exio there, a big bug solved for 0.4.5 :) 19:25 RealBadAngel issues lists can say us whats broken, bug hunter list can say us who will fix them 19:26 RealBadAngel because we all know who is good at some point and being able to fix it 19:27 RealBadAngel for example somethin is broken within mapgen -> hmmm 19:27 RealBadAngel thats what im talkin about 19:28 proller idea for future - do not crash server on lua error 19:28 RealBadAngel in my area of interest i do have already 2 known bugs and can fix them 19:28 thexyz RealBadAngel: github issue tracker has tags 19:28 thexyz we can tag bug as [mapgen] 19:28 thexyz or [formspec] 19:28 thexyz or something 19:29 RealBadAngel tagging and pointing a person whos gonna fix it, those are two different things :) 19:29 VanessaE proller: no, bad idea. 19:29 VanessaE don't take control of such things out of the system admin's hands. 19:30 proller VanessaE, i setup 10 mods, and 2-3 crush server sometimes 19:30 RealBadAngel proller: use lua inside lua 19:30 PilzAdam I dont like the idea to assign people for fixing bugs, because random devs may think "Oh, someone already fixes that, so I dont have to" 19:30 VanessaE proller: then remove them until they can be fixed, of course. 19:31 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, bugs are the code coders dont like 19:31 proller VanessaE, it can happens after week of server work 19:31 RealBadAngel they often would go for new one than solving some mysterious problems 19:31 VanessaE yup, it can'. 19:31 VanessaE can. my point stands. 19:31 proller better to remove all mods 19:32 thexyz PilzAdam: instead, >Oh, nobody is fixing it, let me do it... and then we have several people working on the same issue 19:32 VanessaE again this is offtopi 19:32 VanessaE c 19:33 PilzAdam btw: +1 for release 0.4.5 on monday 19:33 thexyz well, it's not like we get a ton of bugfixes from random people 19:33 RealBadAngel if several are workin on the very same issue chance is it will be fixed sooner 19:33 RealBadAngel which is good 19:33 RealBadAngel also knowledge gained by the others is also a value 19:33 thexyz without knowing about each other? 19:34 thexyz how'd that help? 19:34 RealBadAngel if you see a name on the list 19:34 RealBadAngel and think you can help. contact him 19:34 RealBadAngel simple as that 19:34 thexyz oh, that's what you were talking about 19:35 RealBadAngel its not a competition, this is meant to be helpful 19:35 thexyz i also wonder what shall we do with font issue 19:36 VanessaE in what way? 19:36 RealBadAngel for example, idk what youre talkin about. just check the list :) 19:37 thexyz apparently, it doesn't have CJK characters; with gettext enabled by default chinese/japanese/korean users would not see most translated labels 19:37 thexyz as they have to download some other font 19:37 hmmmm ugh, speaking of mapgen, i really hate that celeron made vmanip a reference throughout the code instead of a pointer 19:37 RealBadAngel hmmmm, same was with atlas stuff 19:37 hmmmm i am torn between making vmanip a parameter of the generic mapgen functions and making it a member of the virtual class 19:38 thexyz my idea is to add "alternative" font and load it for some languages 19:38 hmmmm right, we should make that a development guideline, avoid references when possible, try to minimize the C++ crap as much as possible 19:38 RealBadAngel at some point to prevent corruption he made const in definitions 19:38 RealBadAngel which meant door shut for me 19:38 hmmmm he really went overboard with the ++y 19:39 hmmmm and then the GUI things used the MVC paradigm which is ridiculous - keep that for enterprise java applications, not minetest 19:39 thexyz oh, also, there is my STL branch 19:39 thexyz i suggest to switch to STL after 0.4.5 release 19:39 hmmmm well we already have people use stl for all new code 19:39 VanessaE what is the benefit from STL? I'm still unclear on this 19:40 hmmmm consistency 19:40 Exio what STL is? 19:40 hmmmm everything you see in C++ code that starts with "std::" 19:40 rubenwardy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STL_%28file_format%29 19:40 thexyz rubenwardy: almost! 19:40 rubenwardy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Template_Library 19:40 Exio ah 19:41 thexyz any idea how to get 2-letter locale code from gettext? 19:50 hmmmm no 20:02 rubenwardy celeron55: there is $3.04 on the cafepress account 20:03 rubenwardy :D 20:03 rubenwardy not much, but it is a start :D 20:03 thexyz wow! 20:04 thexyz we're rich now 20:04 rubenwardy http://www.cafepress.com/sk/minetest 20:04 hmmmm $3.04 in zimbabue dollars 20:05 rubenwardy and all that money is from mark ######'s purchase 20:05 rubenwardy the unannoying one, that is a moderator 20:05 thexyz hm? 20:05 thexyz marktraceur 20:06 rubenwardy thats it 20:06 thexyz he left a while ago though 20:06 hmmmm he probably didn't want you to say it for some reason if he ########ed it 20:06 rubenwardy I think that was him 20:06 rubenwardy hmmmm: I forgot his name 20:06 hmmmm oh 20:06 hmmmm his actual name is Mark Holmquest or something 20:06 hmmmm if you look on github 20:09 RealBadAngel can i offtopic with a propably nice feature? 20:09 hmmmm what's with all the topic crap 20:09 hmmmm don't ask to ask, just ask 20:10 hmmmm it's like people are overly concerned with being "on topic" when nobody is ever "on topic" 20:10 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/game.cpp#L847 20:10 RealBadAngel what can you see here? 20:10 hmmmm the background music 20:10 hmmmm it looks like being able to play local sounds with no caching 20:11 RealBadAngel it is 20:11 RealBadAngel tested 20:11 PilzAdam what about moving it to client/sounds/ and call it a features instead of testing code? 20:11 hmmmm so you want us to add background music? 20:11 RealBadAngel client side sounds 20:11 RealBadAngel defined in minetest_game 20:11 RealBadAngel and stored locally 20:12 RealBadAngel ie Ambience mod 20:12 hmmmm if it's polished up and turned into an actual feature i guess that's cool 20:12 RealBadAngel im using Ambience for months already 20:12 hmmmm is it just me or is it irritating how a lot of the class names are "-er" 20:13 RealBadAngel http://realbadangel.pl/technicambience.zip 20:13 RealBadAngel hmmm, check this mod out 20:13 hmmmm can't, minetest doesn't compile for me at the moment 20:14 RealBadAngel i changed the music files names to follow the code rules 20:14 RealBadAngel and now music is played local for me 20:15 RealBadAngel notice one thing 20:15 RealBadAngel if you will stream to ogg 20:15 RealBadAngel you will be able to hear to internet radio in minetest too lol 20:16 * hmmmm just found an embarassing bug in noise.h 20:16 PilzAdam hows the progress on the built-in web browser in Minetest? 20:16 rubenwardy lol "hmmmm" in bold make it look blurred 20:17 VanessaE web browser in minetest?? 20:17 VanessaE please no 20:17 VanessaE feature creep. 20:17 RealBadAngel browser? i got CP/M running there :P 20:17 VanessaE just call on the system default browser 20:18 PilzAdam VanessaE, maybe you can see it as a (ironic) comment to RealBadAngel's internet radio? 20:18 VanessaE now I do :) 20:18 VanessaE however, 20:18 VanessaE streaming audio has practical applications 20:18 RealBadAngel Z80 emulation library plus memory and video i wrote 20:18 RealBadAngel i used Amstrad 464 model 20:19 RealBadAngel and CP/M is almost booting 20:19 RealBadAngel just a few things to solve 20:20 hmmmm pfoo 20:20 rubenwardy run minetest through steam. Instant ingame webbrowser 20:20 rubenwardy just need a ingame irc client 20:20 rubenwardy lol 20:20 RealBadAngel we do have it already 20:21 RealBadAngel kaeza wrote it 20:22 VanessaE why not just a generic internet library 20:22 VanessaE something that the IRC mod could hook into, as well as the streaming audio, etc. 20:22 RealBadAngel maybe tcp/ip first? 20:22 hmmmm http://pastebin.com/CuvqjnkB 20:22 hmmmm god damn C++ 20:22 hmmmm line 22 makes that error 20:22 RealBadAngel why we do suffer from udp all the time? 20:22 VanessaE hmmmm: it's still better than the Lua version 20:23 VanessaE almost looks like a straight-across port? 20:23 rubenwardy RBA: yeah i know, but it require the mod to me installed on the server 20:23 rubenwardy i use it in single player 20:23 hmmmm Lua doesn't generate those sorts of errors 20:23 VanessaE oh there's the error. 20:23 hmmmm a single missing ) can cause THAT 20:24 VanessaE well to be fair 20:24 VanessaE Lua loves to break like crazy for lack of a simple comma. 20:25 VanessaE I mean 500 lines later, the error shows up 20:25 VanessaE (well, not as much as that, but still) 20:25 hmmmm and yeah, it is just a straightforward port from the Lua. that's really the only sane strategy for ore generation. 20:27 hmmmm if you notice, i smoothed out the vein difficulties - it's a vein-type ore if there's a NoiseParams present. then it does a single point noise calculation to check if it's in the vein or not 20:29 hmmmm as for having the ore scattered in certain areas more than others, you can do that by modulating ore->clust_scarcity before calling generateOre() 20:29 hmmmm either randomly, say by blockseed, or with an overall pattern, like another point of perlin noise 20:30 hmmmm this sort of thing can introduce really subtle but interesting nuances to the presense of ores 20:30 hmmmm presence* 20:33 RealBadAngel rubenwardy, if the mod was part of minetest_game you could use it everywhere 20:34 rubenwardy yes, but not all server owners would want it 20:38 RealBadAngel like why? 20:38 RealBadAngel if game would have predefined client sounds 20:39 RealBadAngel only for client, build coming with the default sounds 20:39 RealBadAngel what the damn admin would say about it? 20:40 RealBadAngel it would be transparent for him 20:40 RealBadAngel and player could be even able to mod this sounds 20:40 rubenwardy because everything anybody says would be broadcasted into the #minetest room 20:40 RealBadAngel with a sound pack 20:41 RealBadAngel aaaaaa 20:41 RealBadAngel lol 20:41 rubenwardy wait a minute, you are talking about client sonds? 20:41 rubenwardy sounds 20:41 RealBadAngel hehehe indeed 20:41 rubenwardy I though you were talking about the IRC mod 20:41 RealBadAngel rotfl 20:41 VanessaE seemed pretty obvious to me ;) 20:41 rubenwardy just need a ingame irc client 20:41 rubenwardy lol 20:41 rubenwardy we do have it already 20:41 rubenwardy kaeza wrote it 20:42 rubenwardy RBA: yeah i know, but it require the mod to me installed on the server 20:42 rubenwardy i use it in single player 20:42 rubenwardy rubenwardy, if the mod was part of minetest_game you could use it everywhere 20:42 rubenwardy yes, but not all server owners would want it 20:42 RealBadAngel stop the damn mixer lol 20:42 rubenwardy and continue... 20:42 RealBadAngel lets sort it out 20:43 RealBadAngel sounds are easy case 20:43 RealBadAngel solved 20:43 rubenwardy sounds would be good 20:43 * rubenwardy is thinking of making PotatOS 20:43 RealBadAngel its just modyfying that function 20:43 RealBadAngel rename default folder 20:44 RealBadAngel and accept any unfetched files 20:44 RealBadAngel not just 10 20:44 RealBadAngel and renaming the folder 20:44 RealBadAngel then move ambience to minetest_game 20:45 RealBadAngel about irc 20:45 RealBadAngel do you recall my Portals idea? 20:46 RealBadAngel servers connected to each other with structures player can step in 20:47 RealBadAngel and reconnect to another server 20:47 PilzAdam Jeija has worked on this IIRC 20:47 RealBadAngel for this irc comms would be just great 20:48 RealBadAngel talks over the different servers 20:48 RealBadAngel like im in skyblock now, can you come and help me? 20:48 rubenwardy gtg bye all 20:49 RealBadAngel sure, i will finish minin there and go through portal 20:50 RealBadAngel 1) we gain effect of community bigger 20:50 RealBadAngel because all servers CAN be connected and players can talk over them 20:51 RealBadAngel 2) we need to drop UDP for this 20:51 Exio drop UDP? why the hell? 20:51 Exio thanks to UDP i still can play 20:52 VanessaE then we'd have to make sure both can be used 20:52 RealBadAngel waiting several minutes to get 10 mbytes when regular connection at the same time can download whole movie is just INSANE 20:53 RealBadAngel UDP is not meant for file transfer for christ sake 20:54 Exio uh? 20:54 Exio in that case, using TCP for download the files is ok 20:54 RealBadAngel and CURL is just a workaround 20:55 Exio but UDP for the entire game / "stuff" 20:55 RealBadAngel for messages client/server is ok 20:55 RealBadAngel but not for connecting 20:55 thexyz curl is a good workaround 20:55 thexyz why should minetest server serve static files? 20:56 thexyz when nginx can do the same better 20:56 RealBadAngel why would any user be forced to setup a http server? 20:56 thexyz user is not forced to do that 20:56 thexyz it's just an option 20:56 thexyz a good one 20:56 thexyz not for user 20:56 VanessaE curl sucks, sorry 20:56 thexyz for server administrators 20:56 VanessaE this shit does not belong in a third-party application 20:57 RealBadAngel sucks big time 20:57 thexyz maybe it does, but how's that related? 20:57 RealBadAngel i mean the solution 20:57 thexyz ? 20:57 RealBadAngel its a workaround 20:57 thexyz VanessaE: and why does it? 20:57 RealBadAngel not a solution at all 20:57 thexyz that's a solution 20:57 thexyz many games use it 20:57 VanessaE because a proper solution is to put the media server INTO the minetestserver 20:57 thexyz like quake 3, openarena, etc 20:57 thexyz VanessaE: no 20:57 VanessaE one program, one purpose. 20:57 thexyz there is media server in minetestserver 20:58 thexyz why should we put in another one? 20:58 thexyz I'd better call it "fallback" one 20:58 RealBadAngel thexyz, i cant recall i was forced to configure any server to play quake with friends 20:58 thexyz serving big static files is a task which can be delegated to another application 20:58 thexyz one program, one purpose 20:59 RealBadAngel now i do have to wait endlessly to download content 20:59 thexyz RealBadAngel: because quake includes some packs by default 20:59 RealBadAngel hold on a sec 20:59 thexyz you may even serve files via amazon cdn 20:59 thexyz because why not? 20:59 RealBadAngel i used to play Heroes of Might and Magic 3 21:00 RealBadAngel 20 yrs old game 21:00 thexyz see, ioquake3 21:00 thexyz >Off-server data downloads (http redirection) via HTTP and FTP with cURL 21:00 RealBadAngel this museal one was able to transfer files through tcp/ip 21:00 Exio i still don't understand what is wrong with curl 21:00 thexyz RealBadAngel: so? 21:00 RealBadAngel youre tryin to tell me nowadays UDP is new standard? 21:01 RealBadAngel and we have to stick to it? 21:01 thexyz reread my messages 21:01 thexyz I wasn't telling that 21:01 thexyz wasn't trying to do either 21:01 thexyz you just make a problem of nothing 21:01 Exio RealBadAngel: you has a good connection with low latency and a good download, no? 21:02 VanessaE his point and mine is that cURL shouldn't be a "fallback" option - something equivalent to it should replace the default UDP file transfer code. 21:02 thexyz "equivalent" 21:02 Exio rewriting code, eh? 21:02 thexyz as i see, your point is to make a reliable, fast, multi-threaded static file server into minetest 21:03 thexyz good point 21:03 RealBadAngel transparent 21:03 thexyz but nginx already exists 21:03 VanessaE and nginx is *third party* 21:03 VanessaE that's the problem 21:03 RealBadAngel idk whats that even 21:03 Exio VanessaE: what is the problem with that? 21:03 VanessaE the same would be true if we were talking about apache or IIS or whetever else you wanna try 21:03 thexyz VanessaE: what's the problem? 21:03 PilzAdam sqlite is third party too, lets write our own database 21:03 RealBadAngel thats why i call for transparency and speed :) 21:04 VanessaE PilzAdam: but sqlite is directly used by the engine 21:04 Exio when will MT-script be released? 21:04 VanessaE that's my point! 21:04 thexyz VanessaE: ? 21:04 thexyz so 21:04 thexyz you'd like >reliable, fast, multi-threaded static file server into minetest 21:04 thexyz right? 21:04 thexyz the one which serves files via UDP is a good fallback one 21:05 RealBadAngel if anythin other fails 21:05 VanessaE then yeah 21:05 VanessaE if you wanna put it that way 21:05 thexyz but why? 21:05 thexyz why do we need it inside minetest? 21:05 thexyz why do you want to make it more bloated? 21:05 VanessaE because the current UDP method is shit, and you should not separate a server from a vital function? 21:06 thexyz what's with the KISS principle? 21:06 thexyz why do you think minetestserver should serve large files? 21:06 VanessaE um, hello? textures, mod code, sound files? 21:06 RealBadAngel hello new fellow player, you wanna play please do read 100 pages on how to connect to servers easily and fast 21:06 RealBadAngel yours sincerely devs team 21:06 thexyz RealBadAngel: right? 21:06 VanessaE come on 21:06 thexyz you enter server address, port, press connect 21:06 thexyz you're done 21:07 thexyz what's the problem with that? 21:07 thexyz you seem to not understand something 21:07 thexyz (or is that me who doesn't?) 21:07 RealBadAngel CURL 21:07 thexyz yes 21:07 thexyz so 21:07 thexyz what's the problem? 21:07 VanessaE why should I, as the server admin, have to fuck around with third-party utils just so my users don't have to wait 10 minutes to connect? 21:07 RealBadAngel im newbie, tell me 21:07 thexyz ok 21:07 thexyz sure 21:07 VanessaE or because I don't want my ISP to boot me off for running a web server maybe? 21:08 thexyz RealBadAngel: download http://minetest.ru/builds/minetest-2013.03.02-3823878305.zip 21:08 thexyz 2) play 21:08 Exio 3) done 21:08 thexyz as a user, you don't have to know anything 21:08 Exio in any case, there are programs what do the "thing", i don't see any real reason for recoding stuff 21:08 Exio rewriting the code just for the lulz? 21:09 Exio rewrite lua in minetest because it is thirdy-party and you need it when you compile minetest 21:09 thexyz VanessaE: because you're server admin 21:09 VanessaE *facepalm* 21:10 thexyz instead, you want us (small team!) to implement things into minetest 21:10 RealBadAngel hey, i wanted to play with my friend. how do i set up curl? 21:10 * RealBadAngel is still newbie 21:10 VanessaE yes, because that's sort of a critical part of a game like this? 21:11 thexyz RealBadAngel: you don't have to 21:11 thexyz well, I got your point 21:11 thexyz you want to play with your friend, you don't want to use public server, you want to play with some heavy mods 21:11 RealBadAngel i want to make a server 21:11 thexyz yeah 21:12 Exio then you need to learn 21:12 Exio with or without curl 21:12 RealBadAngel which will end "without" 21:12 RealBadAngel even i dont know how 21:12 thexyz so 21:13 thexyz hm.. 21:13 thexyz well, I'm not going to implement this anyway 21:13 thexyz as I think that's the wrong point 21:13 PilzAdam if you play with a friend you can just send him your cache 21:13 RealBadAngel we are devs, we can talk bout it, explain to each other 21:13 thexyz (opinion which doesn't match mine is wrong) 21:14 RealBadAngel but if some new person from outside will come and face the very same problem 21:14 Exio i don't see the point for rewriting code, adding it to a bloated-server, and then get 1000 segfaults and other 2000 bugs because you had to rewrite a thing what was already coded in a thirdy party program and in a better way, faster and safer 21:14 RealBadAngel will vote with feets. and walks away 21:14 RealBadAngel thats my real point 21:15 Exio minetest already "relies" on lua, and other stuff 21:16 thexyz ok, fine 21:16 thexyz pull requests with webservers implemented are welcome 21:16 RealBadAngel connection stuff is one of the basic things that has to be done 21:16 thexyz optional ones 21:16 proller server setup must be easy, if admin need to setup nginx for files, *jabberd for chat, and anything else - its bad software 21:16 VanessaE I don't recall anyone saying it HAD to be a web server? 21:16 VanessaE I mean shit, something leaner like FTP would be just as good 21:17 thexyz proller: my desktop is a bad software then 21:17 RealBadAngel c55 started tcp branch 21:17 RealBadAngel we were testing it even 21:17 RealBadAngel what happened? 21:17 thexyz i need to setup dbus, alsa and all the other shit 21:17 proller and if admin must check every hour for segfaults from lua mod - it bad sowfware too 21:18 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, c55 is wating for someone who knows more about stuff like this to finish it 21:18 RealBadAngel cant we just use working tcp lib? 21:18 RealBadAngel there are plenty out there 21:18 Exio no, it is thirdy party, reimplement it 21:18 Exio :) 21:18 RealBadAngel lol 21:19 proller thexyz, you can choice what use for desktop, but if you want play game and you must setup nginx - its bad 21:19 thexyz proller: you don't have to 21:19 RealBadAngel so, why we are not reimplementin irrlicht? 21:19 VanessaE look, it should be one config file, one server program. 21:19 thexyz RealBadAngel: that was your idea to reimplement web-server, wasn't it? 21:19 VanessaE end of discussion. 21:19 thexyz VanessaE: end? 21:20 thexyz where are pull requests then? 21:20 RealBadAngel not reimplementing web server 21:20 RealBadAngel change udp to tcp 21:20 VanessaE if I knew how to code such a thing (in C++) you'd already have had a pull request 6 months ago. 21:20 proller http://stackoverflow.com/questions/738273/open-source-c-c-embedded-web-server 21:21 RealBadAngel http://code.google.com/p/mongoose/ 21:21 RealBadAngel looks reasonable 21:22 Exio meh, k 21:22 Exio everything will be an option, no? 21:22 Exio i still want to use udp 21:22 Exio in the gameplay, that is why i still can play 21:22 thexyz dependency hell? 21:23 thexyz well, I guess, optional webserver is fine 21:23 RealBadAngel call it whatever you like, just make server/client both ways fast 21:23 RealBadAngel without setting up services 21:23 Exio ways fast? how? 21:24 Exio downloading the cache what is downloaded one time? 21:24 Exio ok 21:24 VanessaE one time?? 21:24 RealBadAngel game downloads the 50mb cache when im doin a dinner 21:24 VanessaE you evidently don't run a server 21:24 Exio VanessaE: isn't it checked? 21:25 proller need to look at openttd... 21:25 Exio when you connect 21:25 VanessaE if you keep your stuff up to date, every other time a user connects, something has to be re-downloaded. 21:25 RealBadAngel in the very same time in background HD movie downloaded 21:25 VanessaE (so to speak) 21:25 RealBadAngel 1,5 gb 21:25 RealBadAngel so what we are talkin about 21:25 Exio oh, you haz a nice connection 21:25 Exio for people what doesn't just fuck them, no? 21:26 thexyz what's the problem? 21:26 VanessaE I have a connection that can sustain 380 kB/sec upstream, and the most anyone can usually get from me is a tenth of that - unless you, let's say, scp a file 21:26 thexyz it's not like same files will be downloaded more that one time 21:26 thexyz after embedding a webserver, that is 21:26 Exio in any case, if someone is going to do that 21:26 Exio add a busybox-httpd in minetest/somewhere 21:27 Exio and integrate it, it is smaller and fast 21:27 VanessaE busybox is good 21:27 thexyz that's not an option 21:27 VanessaE ok, busybox is bad. 21:27 VanessaE :) 21:27 thexyz i think mongoose is ok 21:27 RealBadAngel me too 21:27 thexyz hmmmm, darkrose, PilzAdam: opinions? 21:27 RealBadAngel its mit 21:27 RealBadAngel and foss 21:28 thexyz and one .c file 21:28 RealBadAngel at least we can try it 21:31 PilzAdam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoose 21:33 thexyz PilzAdam: that's not an opinion! 21:34 PilzAdam if its better than the tcp branch by celeron55, than its ok 21:34 thexyz dunno 21:34 PilzAdam maybe first look into that a bit, and see what needs to be done 21:34 thexyz but I don't like the idea of replacing UDP with TCP just because of slow content download speed 21:35 RealBadAngel try tcp if aviable, then udp 21:35 Exio if it is *only* for the on-connect stuff, it is ok for me, if not, i don't like that 21:35 RealBadAngel no it is not 21:36 Exio replacing the whole udp stuff for tcp? or what? 21:36 RealBadAngel servers evolve, change contens 21:36 RealBadAngel not replace 21:36 thexyz actually 21:36 thexyz what was the initial point of TCP branch? 21:36 RealBadAngel leave udp as a last man standing 21:37 RealBadAngel to speed things up 21:37 thexyz what things? 21:37 thexyz does it? 21:37 RealBadAngel it was fast 21:37 thexyz hm.. 21:37 RealBadAngel but crashed 21:37 thexyz last time I checked it at c55's server it was hanging 21:37 PilzAdam thexyz, IIRC it was for downloading media with tcp 21:38 RealBadAngel look, if the build in server can replace it 21:39 RealBadAngel its ok 21:39 RealBadAngel *built 21:39 thexyz still need to wait for darkrose/hmmmm's reply 21:39 hmmmm what 21:40 * PilzAdam would be intersted in celeron55 opinion too 21:40 hmmmm oh let me read 21:40 RealBadAngel ONLY condition that has to be fulfilled for both sides: player/admin is transparency 21:40 RealBadAngel as with old UDP, start server, connect to it 21:41 hmmmm what are you guys talking about? 21:41 VanessaE hmmmm: in short: finding a faster way to handle the initial media download on connection. the proposal is http://code.google.com/p/mongoose/ 21:41 VanessaE my proposal was FTP 21:41 hmmmm WHAT?? lol 21:41 hmmmm are you actually saying that 21:42 hmmmm a web server in minetest 21:42 VanessaE not me. 21:42 VanessaE a webserver is overkill. 21:42 hmmmm whose idea was this 21:42 Sylvertech Hello. 21:42 hmmmm who first said "we should put a webserver in" 21:42 hmmmm i want to know so i can hang their picture up in the wall of shame so people will know to not take them seriously 21:42 VanessaE I said we should put the media server in and dispense with using a third-party program like nginx/apache/etc 21:43 VanessaE but I did not say (intentionally) that we should use a webserver. 21:43 hmmmm ;; 21:43 hmmmm we have TCP for bulk transfers now 21:43 VanessaE hmmmm: but it apparently does not work reliably. 21:43 VanessaE crashes or something 21:43 hmmmm the hell.. 21:44 thexyz and I still don't see the problem in using nginx 21:44 hmmmm i am not going to get involved with yet another large component, but i don't see why 1). we haven't been using TCP for this sort of thing a long, long time ago and 2). why nobody can get it working 21:44 thexyz but if TCP works fine it's better to replace UDP with it 21:44 hmmmm it's convoluted, nonsensical, 21:44 thexyz and if it doesn't the only solution is to embed a webserver 21:44 hmmmm no, TCP is high latency 21:45 Exio FINALLY ONE 21:45 hmmmm that certainly isn't the only solution 21:45 Exio thanks hmmmm 21:45 hmmmm the solution is to make TCP work right 21:45 thexyz yeah 21:45 hmmmm "whoop X doesn't work, let's give up on it and start using Y" 21:45 hmmmm welp, i can't get this particular car design to work, we should start using aircraft to get to the store and back 21:46 hmmmm we can strap a set of wheels onto a boeing 747 and have it follow a train track 21:46 VanessaE hmmmm: well, the powers-that-be only have two years left to give us flying cars after all... 21:46 VanessaE ;) 21:46 thexyz not "whoop X doesn't work" 21:46 VanessaE but, we aren't using TCP because c55 doesn't like the quality or stability of his TCP branch 21:47 thexyz whoop X doesn't work and no one is going to make it work 21:47 hmmmm he has a bad habit of overcomplicating network protocols 21:47 VanessaE THAT is more accurate, sadly. 21:47 VanessaE ssssh, he might hear you. 21:47 Sylvertech I heard too much caffience makes programmers aggressivers. 21:47 Sylvertech Have you heard death metal lately 21:47 Sylvertech ? 21:47 hmmmm what 21:47 Sylvertech Its becoming rather soft. 21:47 hmmmm ba dum tss 21:47 Sylvertech The growls are almost slightly intelligble. 21:48 Sylvertech That shut you up. 21:48 hmmmm anyway my point is that i will not stand for integrating a webserver because people are lazy and incompetent 21:48 hmmmm maybe if i get done with what i have on my plate i'll go and fix it 21:49 * VanessaE waits for the impending standard chain of events: I head off for the night, c55 signs on, scrolls back, leaves some comment, and disappears before I can respond 21:49 VanessaE s/I/whoever/ 21:49 Sylvertech I say you program a bot, VanessaE 21:49 hmmmm i say you get remotely on topic 21:49 VanessaE no. 21:49 Sylvertech Just have it chat with c55 unti lyo uwake up. 21:49 VanessaE /kick Sylvertech 21:49 Sylvertech He won't notice the difference ;) 21:53 thexyz Sylvertech: plz no offtopic 21:53 Sylvertech Yes I'll keep that for #minetest 21:53 Sylvertech toodle-oo 21:54 VanessaE gotta run also. 21:54 VanessaE bbl. 21:58 thexyz hmmmm: what are you thoughts on leveldb? 21:58 hmmmm my idea was to plop that right in for 0.4.6 22:00 thexyz ok 22:00 thexyz actually, embedding leveldb seems for me similar to embedding a web server into minetest 22:00 thexyz this solution is far from perfect 22:01 thexyz but it works and can be done easily and then replaced by something better 22:04 thexyz so i don't get why that much hate 22:06 hmmmm how is it similar? 22:07 RealBadAngel guys, shall i fix the routine to accept anything from lets says /sounds? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/game.cpp#L847 22:07 thexyz 02:00 thexyz: this solution is far from perfect 22:07 thexyz 02:00 thexyz: but it works and can be done easily and then replaced by something better 22:07 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, maybe client/sounds 22:07 hmmmm it's a real huge improvement over sqlite which is already in there due to someone's previous dumb idea that ended up happening 22:08 thexyz RealBadAngel: um.. why do you want it to accept client-side sounds? 22:08 hmmmm now here, it's not even an acceptable idea, it's absurd 22:08 hmmmm and it seeks to solve a problem poorly that hasn't yet been implemented 22:09 RealBadAngel thexyz, because 1) it works alreay 2) can create user sound themes 22:09 hmmmm i know you guys want features, quick, but please take time to solve this the right way 22:10 RealBadAngel thexyz, i modified ambience mod to play files with such names and it works 22:10 RealBadAngel i do have local music 22:11 RealBadAngel this way all the sound can be stored locally 22:12 thexyz can you make it to work like user texture packs do? 22:13 RealBadAngel yes 22:13 RealBadAngel local conent could overwrite server sent 22:14 hmmmm s/overwrite/never send in the first place/ 22:14 hmmmm things ought to be done right the first time 22:14 RealBadAngel theres a check 22:14 hmmmm in the cache 22:14 hmmmm what if you add it to the cache? 22:14 RealBadAngel if not fetched then look in the specified dir 22:15 RealBadAngel i can reverse it, if in dir then not check for fetched 22:16 hmmmm good i guess 22:16 hmmmm hrmm 22:17 RealBadAngel server sent will be in cache anyways 22:17 RealBadAngel as all another content 22:20 RealBadAngel then we will need modified ambience mod, or sort of 22:21 RealBadAngel that will come with minetest_game 22:21 RealBadAngel and will expect certain files 22:22 RealBadAngel passing this function will resolve it 22:23 RealBadAngel i will try also to play music at main menu 22:24 RealBadAngel should work imho 22:25 RealBadAngel ha. in fact i think by now server will send only mods sounds 22:25 proller openttd have self http client/server, no external libs 22:25 RealBadAngel so files stored in local folder (that will come with build) will be completely local 22:26 RealBadAngel so may serve as default ambience, click sounds, menu music etc 22:27 RealBadAngel so server can order to play "default:click" 22:27 RealBadAngel but client can change it to another sound by replacing files 22:28 PilzAdam does the current code download the textures from the server when they are overwritten by the client from textures/all? 22:29 RealBadAngel i guess whole content is being downloaded 22:29 RealBadAngel no matter if local replacements are aviable 22:29 PilzAdam somone should change that 22:30 RealBadAngel i guess because i can see whole checks refers to fetched media 22:30 RealBadAngel ie downloaded already 22:31 RealBadAngel well, that would be a little complicated 22:32 RealBadAngel many separate files, paths etc 22:33 RealBadAngel i wonder why we wouldnt go in a very different direction 22:33 RealBadAngel server on start creating single zip file 22:33 RealBadAngel with whole media to download 22:35 RealBadAngel instead of thousands of small files 22:36 RealBadAngel it already works manual way 22:36 RealBadAngel compres server cache, upload it somwhere 22:37 RealBadAngel download by client, unpack 22:37 RealBadAngel until server got updated no need to repack it 22:37 RealBadAngel i tested this on many servers 22:39 proller can we make reusable mods like in opennttd - you can download from any server, and start local game with any downloaded mod 22:41 thexyz we don't download mods from server 22:41 thexyz this is insecure 22:43 proller maybe from github ? 22:44 thexyz why should that be built into client? 22:44 thexyz why should we depend on github? 22:44 RealBadAngel what if github is down? 22:45 RealBadAngel epic fail 22:45 proller maybe something like mods.minetest.net? 22:47 RealBadAngel you will exclude users modifications to mods 22:47 RealBadAngel which is not good 22:47 proller current way to setup mod is ugly. you must go to forum, download mod from github or mediafire or othershitdownload.com, unpack , run, look at segfault and delete mod 8) 22:49 RealBadAngel central point of mod distribution and what server wil use are two separate things 22:49 proller list of mods can contain name, version and hash, may choose between modified versions 22:49 RealBadAngel mods sometimes require customization 22:50 RealBadAngel like enable this, disable that 22:50 thexyz proller: i agree here 22:50 thexyz something like this is needed http://multa.bugs3.com/minetest/forum/ 22:51 RealBadAngel maybe something in the middle 22:51 RealBadAngel hash for not modified one, verified by central 22:52 RealBadAngel any custom modifications will effect with new hash, server willl have to send it 22:52 thexyz ? >server willl have to send it 22:52 RealBadAngel no matter client has that mod already, if the hash differs 22:53 proller thexyz, yes, with standard distribution format, installable from game in one click 22:55 RealBadAngel thexyz: you tested luajit? 22:58 RealBadAngel i was wondering how it is possible they claim luajit is circa 50times faster adn you said that you havent noticed any changes in performance 22:58 thexyz test it for yourself, it's easy to set up 22:58 RealBadAngel any tips? 22:59 thexyz what tips? 22:59 RealBadAngel how to do that :) 23:00 hmmmm again, it doesn't matter what the actual performance gains from a couple selected mods are, what matters is that it's faster in general, which means people can do big computations in lua without having to rely on people putting it in the core all the time 23:00 thexyz and I only measured perfomance using some lua profiler 23:01 thexyz RealBadAngel: replace ./src/lua/build/liblua.a with luajit, run make 23:01 thexyz that's the easiest way 23:02 RealBadAngel http://luajit.org/performance_x86.html 23:02 RealBadAngel i was lookin at this 23:03 thexyz it's not like we calculate md5 20000 times 23:03 RealBadAngel but i tried already do massive calculations in Lua 23:03 RealBadAngel on graphs, matrices etc 23:04 RealBadAngel tree was generated in like 20 seconds 23:04 RealBadAngel graphs im using in Technic 23:05 RealBadAngel folks complain sometimes i kill cpus with it ;) 23:06 RealBadAngel not to mention i need MOAR graphs hehe 23:36 * VanessaE is back 23:44 iqualfragile1 RealBadAngel, thexyz: rubenwardys "forum" is gona be avivable under mods.minetest.net as soon as its done 23:45 iqualfragile1 he also provides apis for some launchers to get the mods