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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2013-01-19

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Time Nick Message
00:00 RealBadAngel Cybersoft, look in lua_api.txt for examples
00:00 RealBadAngel you need to change visual_scale for node
00:01 RealBadAngel or define nodebox to have different sized node
00:02 RealBadAngel better to define smaller node and apply modified textures to it
00:03 RealBadAngel or if you want just to apply the texture from mc, cut borders in gimp and resize rest to 16x16 again
00:03 SiegeWizard not a good idea to increase images sizes
00:05 Cybersoft I'm using a 128x texture
00:05 Cybersoft the problem is that in mc the cactus is about 80% of a block, and judging from the transparent gaps on all size it seem to be 100% in minetest
00:11 RealBadAngel it is 100%
00:13 RealBadAngel if you want some better textures use those for example: https://github.com/RealBadAngel/HavenTP/archive/master.zip
00:13 RealBadAngel or https://github.com/VanessaE/128px-realistic-textures/archive/master.zip
00:14 RealBadAngel both are 128x, VanessaE has also different sized version of it
00:17 Cybersoft thanks!
01:14 Cybersoft is there a todo list somewhere?
01:14 Cybersoft or a list of bugs? requests?
01:15 Exio in github :P
01:16 Exio a big list of issues
01:22 Cybersoft I'll see if there is something relatively easy I could do before I start throwing ideas around
01:22 Cybersoft and I need to read more on voxels...
01:34 Cybersoft anyway the whole thing about spheres in #minetest was to code dynamic blocks in the engine
01:34 Cybersoft ie: blocks that would be generated on the fly instead of pre-defined
01:35 Cybersoft and which couldn't be destroyed/built without destroying/bulding the whole structure
03:52 Cybersoft would it be useful if I propose a code to change the part where the size of heart.png is hardcoded? so using a 32x heart texture will not work?
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09:59 celeron55 so this is today's thing http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4243
10:00 celeron55 http://dev.minetest.net/MinetestWiki:TODO
10:05 celeron55 #minetest-doc is currently relatively empty and almost everybody in there is also in here, so i'll talk here until a bit more people come on #-doc, as this channel has logs and so (while the other doesn't)
10:06 celeron55 i'm currently considering whether i'd be able to write a more design-oriented "Engine structure" page (compared to the simple "list of things" style of "Core Architecture")
10:07 celeron55 i wonder how much of history it should contain
10:17 SiegeWizard celeron
10:17 SiegeWizard as i said yesterday
10:17 SiegeWizard i think that
10:17 SiegeWizard more important that documenting it on the wiki
10:17 celeron55 i say you should use less lines
10:18 SiegeWizard is documenting it with coments
10:18 SiegeWizard ok
10:18 SiegeWizard someone proposed doxygen-style comenting
10:19 SiegeWizard that would transform the coments inside the code into a wiki too, killing two birds with a single shoot
10:20 celeron55 comments for the sake of comments, only duplicating what the function definitions already say, are useless - and also, i have seen more people ask for overall documentation rather than that of small details
10:21 celeron55 but of course if somebody adds some actually useful doxugen comments, they are then actually useful 8)
10:22 SiegeWizard thats the point i tried to make yesterday, you don't need to be yourself comenting it, at least not what is already coded, but comenting the code you do from now on would be a way of getting things done
10:22 SiegeWizard the rest of us could help comenting the code that is already implemented
10:22 celeron55 i haven't been doing much of minetest in a longish time
10:23 celeron55 you're talking to the wrong guy 8) talk to new contributors
10:23 SiegeWizard PS: i don't know how to add another channel, could you explain so i join the new one?
10:24 celeron55 /join #minetest-doc will get you on that one; it's very very quiet at the moment though
10:25 celeron55 #minetest is the general-purpose channel that is usually very active
10:25 SiegeWizard should we start talking or is better to wait for more of us?
10:26 celeron55 marktraceur is the one organizing most of this, but he's still sleeping; i don't know exactly what he has in mind
10:27 SiegeWizard quoted from http://dev.minetest.net/MinetestWiki:TODO:      Engine documentation           List here things we need to document, how we will document those things, and more.         Maybe use Doxygen-style comments. Yes, do that.
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11:02 celeron55 SiegeWizard: you should probably get it started then, so that people can do it
11:02 SiegeWizard and what should i start
11:02 SiegeWizard i was wondering if someone could explain git/github to me as I haven't use them ever
11:03 Calinou SiegeWizard: there is a guide on github ;-)
11:03 Calinou http://github.com/
11:03 celeron55 i assume doxygen requires some kind of configuration or something, and people require a file that is doxygenized as an example
11:04 SiegeWizard but everyone doesn't need to create the doxygen files
11:05 SiegeWizard they only owuld be created every "semi-important" version
11:05 SiegeWizard people needs to know how to comment it so that doxygen udnerstands the comments
11:05 celeron55 but there needs to be a consistent way of generating it; it's not likely that somebody will personally do it for years to go
11:06 celeron55 people come and go - that is the first rule of libre open source stuff
11:06 celeron55 code stays
11:07 SiegeWizard a guide on how to generate the doxygen documentation could be fine
11:07 Calinou http://paste.ubuntu.com/1548711/
11:07 celeron55 SiegeWizard: do it!
11:07 Calinou (not perfect at all, feel free to comment :p)
11:09 SiegeWizard ok, but i think it's more important to tell people how to coment first
11:09 SiegeWizard if there are no coments, there's no sense in getting a tutorial on how to make the documentation of those coments
11:09 celeron55 people won't comment before they can see what comes out of the comments
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11:10 SiegeWizard that's a good point
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11:19 Infinity_69 hi guys :D
11:19 Infinity_69 VanessaE
11:19 Infinity_69 Celeron55 & 56
11:19 Infinity_69 kaeza
11:19 Infinity_69 loggingbot
11:19 Infinity_69 sfan5
11:19 Infinity_69 sfan5|OFF
11:19 Infinity_69 thexyz
11:19 Infinity_69 marktraceur
11:19 celeron55 are you in need of a ban?
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11:29 Infinity_69 no
11:30 Infinity_69 Oblivion1500
11:30 Infinity_69 can you do me a favour?
11:30 Oblivion1500 whats that?
11:30 Infinity_69 what os do you run atm?
11:30 Oblivion1500 im running the linux mint 14 distro
11:30 Infinity_69 fuck...
11:31 Oblivion1500 why?
11:31 Infinity_69 Celeron55, do you run Windows?
11:31 Infinity_69 a program doesnt start :/
11:31 Oblivion1500 what program?
11:32 Infinity_69 a cs 1.6 decal converter
11:32 Infinity_69 wait here
11:32 SiegeWizard he really wants a ban
11:32 Infinity_69 http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4496
11:32 Infinity_69 no i dont
11:33 SiegeWizard u think the dev IRC is for that kind of support?
11:33 Infinity_69 was kicked by celeron55: wrong channel
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12:06 celeron55 i wonder if this is going to the right direction http://dev.minetest.net/Engine_structure
12:17 celeron55 ...at least the wrong channel
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16:20 Progers Hi
16:20 sfan5 hi
16:21 Progers I want to ask,MineTest was coded on QT or Eclipse?
16:21 Cybersoft Everyone probably use their own prefered IDE
16:21 Progers I know
16:22 Progers But wanted to know on  what IDE minetest was coded
16:23 sfan5 IIRC visual studio
16:23 Progers Ok
16:23 sfan5 but celeron decided to switch to cmake
16:24 Exio I think c55 used notepad at the first!
16:24 Progers :D
16:24 Progers Nano :D
16:24 PilzAdam vim ftw
16:24 sfan5 what about vim?
16:25 celeron55 what
16:26 celeron55 i code in vim
16:26 celeron55 since long before i started minetest
16:26 Progers good
16:27 Progers I started learn C++ 4 month ago =)
16:28 Progers The best language
16:28 Cybersoft that's could be discussed at lenght
16:28 sfan5 ^ i agree
16:28 Cybersoft *that
16:28 sfan5 but c has the fastest compiler (tcc)
16:29 Cybersoft If I want to do something easily I use C#. If I want it to be robust I use C++, if I want to do insanely fast math libs I might use ocaml
16:29 Progers How about java? java is better than C# i think? No?
16:31 Progers sorry for bad english,i am from Russia :D
16:31 darkrose java is better than c# in the same way that horse sh** is better than dog sh**
16:32 Cybersoft I don't think any language is better or worse than any other language. I'm a professionnal C# developper, so for me java would be a worse language because I would have to learn it before I could code with it. C++ is harder because it has pointers and memory management
16:32 Cybersoft and the C++ standard library is currently evolving, so what you learned in school or from book will need updating
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16:36 Progers i am now learning (Object Oriented Programming - C++ Lafore)
16:38 Cybersoft and at some point you have to decide what you will learn and what you will not... I'm an ex-linux user so I decided to focus on c++ on .net and microsoft technologies (because I have limited time)
16:39 Cybersoft so if I worked for Oracle it wouldn't be an ideal fit, but working for a microsoft dev shop is a better choice
16:39 Progers You are Expert Linux User?
16:41 Cybersoft No., "ex" means I used it previously, but I don't it anymore
16:41 Cybersoft *I don't use it anymore
16:42 Progers Oh
16:42 john_minetest Seems it sounds impossible to some people to use windows after having used linux xD
16:43 Progers What did you use? Kubuntu? or Ubuntu?
16:43 Progers :D
16:43 Cybersoft Slackware, Redhat, SuSE ... mostly suse when it was an independant company
16:43 darkrose guys, take the chatter elsewhere
16:43 Cybersoft I sometimes use ubuntu in virtual machines
16:43 Progers I liked Kubuntu =)
16:44 Progers But i had some errors with QT
16:44 Progers Who use Eclipse?
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16:47 Calinou eclipse for C++?
16:47 Calinou erm, what did I say
16:47 Calinou eclipse for any programming language?
16:47 Progers Yes!
16:48 Calinou Cybersoft: .net is da hell
16:48 Calinou or da shit/the suck/anything
16:50 Cybersoft maybe, maybe not, but it is what I'm paid to do
16:51 Cybersoft so I gotta drink the kool-aid
16:51 Cybersoft when you are paid to code your perspective is different...
16:52 Progers =)
17:08 Calinou i'd write c# only if i was paid for doing that :P
17:13 Progers hehe
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17:38 Cybersoft I'd use linux only if I was paid for doing that ;)
17:38 sfan5 :(
17:39 thexyz are you all sure this is appropriate channel to discuss all this minetest-unrelated stuff?
17:43 VanessaE celeron55: is there any chance of getting you to tweak the register_on_generated() call to return 1 mapblock at a time instead of 5x5x5 ?
17:44 VanessaE this adds incredibly huge latency when checking through the returned nodes for something.
17:44 thexyz >Documentation today in #minetest-doc and http://dev.minetest.net
17:44 thexyz you a word
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18:00 celeron55 VanessaE: it will cause too much latency anyway; the right thing to do currently is to figure out what kind of functions should be implemented in C++ to facilitate the things that are slow to do in lua
18:02 VanessaE celeron55: mind if I make a suggestion to that end: find_open_spaces(minp, maxp, radius, {list of nodes to avoid})
18:03 VanessaE should return a list of positions that are more than <radius> from all items in {list} within the minp/maxp area
18:04 VanessaE effectively, a density function.
18:04 VanessaE I'd point you to the best lua implementation I've come up with for that, but I assume you have no time now.
18:05 Cybersoft should I put a bug on github before I attempt to fix it?
18:07 thexyz it depends, if that's some urgent security-related issue, better talk to c55 privately
18:09 Cybersoft no, it's just being unable to use a texture with any size for hearts
18:09 Cybersoft because it's hardcoded to be 16x, so if it's bigger it won't resize it and there will be display issues
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18:10 thexyz well, if you can (and will) fix it [in reasonable amount of time], then just do that and submit a pull request
18:14 VanessaE actually my suggestion might be useful to some, but it won't help in my particular case :-/
18:16 Cybersoft VanessaE- that function sounds AIish
18:16 VanessaE Cybersoft: not really.  in Lua it's trivial to do, but slow
18:16 Cybersoft it's exactly the kind of function you would use if you wanted an NPC to avoid hazards like holes or lava
18:17 VanessaE hm...  I suppose it would be useful for that.
18:17 Cybersoft what is a node in minetest? a block? part of a block?
18:17 VanessaE a 1m cube e.g. a piece of dirt or cobble
18:17 PilzAdam http://dev.minetest.net/terminology
18:18 thexyz how about renaming it to "Terminology"?
18:18 PilzAdam +1
18:18 thexyz done
18:18 Cybersoft how many voxels are there in a block?
18:19 VanessaE depends on how you want to define voxel.
18:19 PilzAdam Cybersoft, http://dev.minetest.net/terminology
18:19 VanessaE commonly it seems to equate to a single node
18:20 VanessaE but if you wanna be picky, you could say it's 4096 per node (since they use 16px textures by default)
18:20 Cybersoft so if I wanted to deform a block in an experiment, I would have control of 4096 voxels for a single block?
18:21 VanessaE nope
18:21 VanessaE you'd control the node as a whole.
18:21 VanessaE it's still one voxel the way it's drawn, it just *looks* like 4096 because of the texture resolution.
18:22 Cybersoft I think I'm asking the wrong questions
18:23 VanessaE celeron55: if you wanna take a look at how I implemented it in Lua, here:  https://github.com/VanessaE/plantlife/blob/mapgenbased/plants_lib/init.lua#L81
18:23 VanessaE the code above this point is as fast as I could have wanted, but from this point to line 88, it's slow for reasons I am sure are obvious.
18:23 VanessaE so what's needed is a way to do that ^^^^ in a single C++ function call.
18:27 Cybersoft I think a better question would be, how much control do I have on the shape of a block from within the c++ code without using lua nodebox with coordinates
18:27 Cybersoft could I do csg operation to remove a sphere from a box for example from within the code if your basic building block is a voxel?
18:51 doserj Cybersoft: in c++ you can do pretty much anything you want, you just have to build the 3d-mesh for it in the client code.
18:52 Cybersoft yeah but more or less work is involved depending on how minetest does thing
18:52 Cybersoft from mesh.cpp I can see that the only kind of basic mesh you use are blocks
18:52 Cybersoft *cubes
18:55 doserj enum NodeDrawType in nodedef.h shows you what kind of things the engine currently knows about
18:56 doserj plantlike, for example, is not a block ;)
18:56 Cybersoft it's a billboard / sprite no?
18:57 Cybersoft I mean the way they look ingame looks like sprites or billboards
18:57 doserj not a billboard
18:58 doserj (billboard always face the camera)
18:59 Cybersoft Well I was under the impression the plants were always facing the camera
19:00 doserj then look again
19:04 Cybersoft hum, but plants are just a texture with alpha on a square mesh no?
19:05 RealBadAngel drawtype plantlike are two textures 90 deg to each other
19:05 RealBadAngel btw, http://ompldr.org/vaDJiMQ/screenshot_907329753.png
19:06 RealBadAngel 4 textures plantlike with 45 deg
19:06 Cybersoft I see
19:29 VanessaE celeron55: I figured out the problem - my mapgen code is now quite fast but I need that stupid above-ground-caves-in-air fix put into place please
19:29 VanessaE it is destroying trees here and there after they're generated.
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20:52 iqualfragile "Examples include mobs, dropped items, falling sand or gravel, primed TNT." found on http://dev.minetest.net/terminology. It looks like that was taken from a text describing minecraft, but i might be wrong
21:01 thexyz iqualfragile: → #minetest-doc
22:35 Progers Hm 2:35 AM
22:35 Progers =)
23:03 Taoki RealBadAngel: I like how those leaves look like!
23:05 RealBadAngel Taoki, please wait a few hours
23:05 RealBadAngel VanessaE is finishin the code to place all trees in the world
23:05 Taoki ok. Anyway I'd like to see that change in master
23:05 Taoki awesome
23:06 RealBadAngel before mapgen v7 they will propably stay as a mod
23:06 Taoki ok. Waiting for the LUA-hooked mapgen too :)
23:07 RealBadAngel but i can say i tested out version with 2 kinds of trees
23:07 RealBadAngel it worked just fine
23:07 RealBadAngel now shes having total of 11 trees
23:08 RealBadAngel and tuning map generation for them
23:08 Taoki The change in that screenshot doesn't look related to any mapgen BTW. More like it changes leaves from blocks to X shapes, which looks better
23:08 RealBadAngel its a complete overhaul
23:09 RealBadAngel new trees, trunks, leaves, saplings, planks...
23:09 RealBadAngel and fruits
23:09 RealBadAngel i finished my part today, now VanessaE is makin use of it
23:17 VanessaE I'm slowly getting there...
23:18 VanessaE busy plugging numbers into the biome defs.
23:23 Taoki Still, is there something keeping the current tree leaves from working when set to an X shape instead of a block drawing type (just thatn part)?
23:23 Taoki **that
23:24 VanessaE probably noy
23:24 VanessaE not*
23:24 VanessaE they're just another node
23:24 VanessaE how the fancy/new style leaves would play into that, dunno
23:25 Taoki Maybe they can be set that way for the existing mapgen trees. That would be pretty :)
23:25 VanessaE try it :)
23:44 doserj I would guess plantlike leaves are somewhere between fast and fancy leaves in mesh complexity. fancy leaves-> 6 faces. plantlike -> 2 faces. fast leaves -> anything between 1 and 6 faces on the surface, but 0 faces in the interior.
23:47 doserj oh, the 6 faces for fancy leaves is actually only 3 for interior ones
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23:50 doserj Anyways, I am not sure I really like plantlike leaves.
23:52 kaeza night all
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