Time  Nick      Message
01:25 hmmmm     hrmmmmmmmmmmmmm
01:26 hmmmm     what if i change the biome terrain type into a generic cave terrain type and caves are generated in the same way that the nether is, except the scale is much much smaller
01:26 hmmmm     i wonder if that'd make things look alright
01:27 hmmmm     i'd still have to figure out how to do the tunnels
01:27 hmmmm     change the nether biome terrain type*
11:39 sfan5     celeron55: it would be helpful if you could give users on the forum warnings
12:04 thexyz    celeron55: celeron56: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/344
16:03 hmmmm     alright, ndef->getId("mapgen_gravel") is returning 127 when i try to register a biome.  i currently call register_biome in between all the minetest.register_alias("mapgen_whatever", "default:whatever") and the common functions in games/minimal/mods/default/init.lua)
16:04 hmmmm     apparently, that's *too* early
16:04 VanessaE  perhaps biomes should be in a separate mod
16:04 VanessaE  instead of being part of default
16:04 hmmmm     lol...
16:04 hmmmm     i don't think so, unless you really want water to be a mod
16:05 hmmmm     are oceans optional for you?
16:05 VanessaE  well, I mean all the default biomes collected into one.
16:05 VanessaE  that said,
16:05 VanessaE  think of Cornernote's "skyblock" mod/game.  that has no land generator at all, except for several very small islands.
16:05 hmmmm     so what i want to know is at what point the nodes i want to get a content_t to are present in the nodedef manager
16:05 VanessaE  someone else, i forget who (mauvebic maybe?) was looking at making an all-water world.
16:06 hmmmm     hmmm, how do you even do that from a mod.... do they just replace everything with air in mapgen.lua:register_on_generated ?
16:06 VanessaE  not sure how he did it.
16:06 VanessaE  a custom game, for sure
16:06 hmmmm     grotesque
16:07 VanessaE  case in point :-)
16:07 hmmmm     i don't get it though
16:07 hmmmm     gravel is clearly being registered in the same file far above this
16:28 thexyz    sfan5: did you have a problem with buildbot? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/344
16:29 hmmmm     WTF....
16:29 hmmmm     i am getting SIGILL when i try to printf m_name_id_mapping_with_aliases.size() in CNodeDefManager::getId()
16:30 hmmmm     this is ridiculously difficult to debug
16:30 hmmmm     hey, at least breakpoints sorta work, right? :)
16:31 hmmmm     it's not the worst
16:33 hmmmm     alright, so i got it working..... the size of m_name_id_mapping_with_aliases.size() is 44 at the time i want to create my node
16:35 hmmmm     it's like the aliases just aren't being added..... but they _clearly_ are, directly above this call!
16:35 hmmmm     i just figured i should try default:graven instead of mapgen_gravel and it works
16:36 VanessaE  making graven images in minetest?  blasphemy.
16:36 VanessaE  :-)
19:03 RevenantX hi all
19:03 RevenantX does minetest using batching for chunks?
19:44 hmmmm     a chunk is defined as a batch of blocks
19:44 hmmmm     :|
20:32 hmmmm     guys, I don't think that the LGPL is working exactly the way it was intended as it is for libraries (minetest is clearly not a library)
20:32 hmmmm     moreover, the lua scripts are defined as plug-ins, not libraries, as there is much interaction between the two
20:33 hmmmm     since LGPL is the same text as the GPL but with the library exception added, i am pretty sure that the GPL policy on proprietary plugins still follows
20:33 hmmmm     if you want proprietary Lua scripts to be allowed, it's probably a better idea to change the LGPL license to GPL, and then add in an exception for distributing with proprietary plugins
20:34 hmmmm     otherwise (to me at least) it seems like in this regard the LGPL is acting exactly the same as the GPL would
20:34 celeron55 i perfectly know that
20:34 hmmmm     (read http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLAndPlugins)
20:34 hmmmm     oh
20:34 hmmmm     then what
20:34 celeron55 the reason for LGPL is that there is no reason to restrict people to less rights than LGPL gives
20:35 celeron55 i do not like the way the FOSS people restrict people as much as they can
20:36 celeron55 if somebody wants to make some part of minetest as a library and use it in a commercial project, GPL would make it not an option for no reason
20:36 hmmmm     what don't you like about MIT or BSD with an added GPL-like clause for protection against closed-sourcing minetest?
20:36 celeron55 s/commercial/non-free/
20:36 hmmmm     i dunno, it just seems weird to me
20:37 celeron55 there are contributors who won't make their code anything more free than LGPL
20:37 hmmmm     oh
20:37 celeron55 minetest was originally published under GPL and development got somewhat close to dying, so i took in code from some GPL contributors
20:38 celeron55 it
20:38 celeron55 that is the history of the license
20:38 celeron55 then i managed to get an agreement on LGPL later
20:41 celeron55 that being said, i think being so loose about contributions was kind of a dumb decision; but everybody is dumb before they get wiser
20:41 celeron55 8)
20:43 hmmmm     yes, on that topic... some 'contributions' might be unwanted
20:43 hmmmm     in #minetest there was a conversation about one guy who was luac'ing his mods
20:43 thexyz    he was going to do it
20:44 thexyz    just /ignore NekoGloop, everything will be fine
20:44 hmmmm     i don't think there's anything in violation with the license with that, but it goes against the spirit of freedom
20:44 thexyz    sure
20:44 hmmmm     not only that, but there's a potential security risk
20:44 celeron55 i couldn't care less; the only thing i will do is restrict publishing via channels maintained by me
20:44 hmmmm     without being to peer review the script, you don't know for sure if it's going to try to exploit some vulnerability in the lua api
20:45 thexyz    why is there need to exploit something in lua api?
20:45 hmmmm     exactly, which is why i said that if it's not being done already, luacs shouldn't be distributed officially in any sort or form
20:45 hmmmm     thexyz, to break out of the sandbox, obviously
20:45 thexyz    just >os.execute
20:45 thexyz    um..
20:45 hmmmm     you can do that?
20:45 thexyz    is there sandbox?
20:45 hmmmm     i thought lua was sandboxed
20:45 hmmmm     that'd be pretty awful
20:46 hmmmm     so there's an even WAY BETTER reason to not allow luac
20:46 celeron55 minetest does not have any sandboxing for lua, by design
20:46 thexyz    hmmmm: what would change?
20:47 thexyz    btw, celeron55, can you please review this one https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/344 ?
20:47 celeron55 very strict sandboxing will be done on client-side if any code sent by the server will be ran there some day, but currently that is not done
20:47 celeron55 thexyz: not today
20:47 thexyz    ok
20:47 thexyz    then i'll ask again tomorrow
20:48 hmmmm     thexyz, it's allow the community to peer review the mods and know if there's something up with them
20:48 hmmmm     even with sandboxing, that's not perfect
20:49 celeron55 having the code of mods exposed is a very good thing in many many ways
20:51 celeron55 (so, yes, moderators should not allow any obfuscated or compiled mods to Mod Releases, unless there is a very good reason for them to be so)
20:52 hmmmm     that's not only NekoGloop but also that mauvebic guy
20:52 celeron55 (actually, the only allowed reason is compiling for performance reasons, and even then the source code should be available)
20:55 thexyz    luac doesn't give any perfomance increase except startup time
20:56 celeron55 maybe if somebody pays enough to cover reviewing of the source by a trusted person and enough to support the community equally compared to released source code, i could consider allowing it
20:56 hmmmm     not really sure if that's because lua is just slow no matter what, or if lua just isn't really eating up that much cpu in the first place..  has anyone investigated that?
20:56 thexyz    >Pre-compiling does not imply faster execution because in Lua chunks are always compiled into bytecodes before being executed. luac simply allows those bytecodes to be saved in a file for later execution.
20:57 thexyz    according to `man luac`
21:06 hmmmm     oh mm i had to ask... how do i read an array in from Lua
21:07 hmmmm     for (int i = 1; <fill in the blank here>; i++) { lua_rawgeti(L, index, i); foo[i - 1] = lua_tonumber(L, -1); lua_pop(L, 1); }
21:07 hmmmm     what is the condition for end-of-table here?  lua_rawgeti does not return a status code of any sort
21:09 celeron55 use lua_next(), search that in google and in scriptapi.cpp
21:09 hmmmm     ok
21:10 celeron55 scriptapi.cpp:1185 for example reads a list
21:11 celeron55 (that specific case reas up to 6 values)
21:12 celeron55 +d
21:36 hmmmm     what is the preferred way to log problems with registering things in lua?