Time  Nick      Message
00:17 doserj    would something like this be welcome? https://github.com/doserj/minetest/commit/ce706caac7d0a35090a519d688c39545cc74b0bf
00:17 VanessaE  I'd welcome it.
00:18 VanessaE  there are a couple of instances I've seen that would have looked better with that - however,
00:18 VanessaE  that can also be done with nodeboxes.
00:19 doserj    4 nodeboxes with 0 thickness?
00:19 VanessaE  yup
00:56 hmmmm     ah, like wheat in minecraft
00:56 VanessaE  similar yeah
00:57 VanessaE  indeed I think the farming mod might look better with a drawtype like that (or the nodebox-based equivalent)
00:57 hmmmm     definitely a welcome addition
02:13 SitDogDev i ran a code profiler on minetest today.  here are the top five issues (33% of runtime):  irr::core::vector3d<short>::vector3d<short>(), std::_Iterator_base12::_Orphan_me, irr::core::vector3d<short>::operator+, VoxelArea::getExtent(), VoxelArea::index
02:26 hmmmm     well what do you expect!?
02:26 hmmmm     those aren't issues, they're just the hottest functions
02:35 SitDogDev i was just looking at the numbers :D
02:54 SitDogDev i think i want to fix this first only because i am on a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry low end laptop.
04:50 SitDog    celeron56?  a year older?
04:51 VanessaE  nope, just one nick collision later ;)
10:41 Calinou   http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3956 < why not make one of these official
10:45 celeron56 i guess we should have some official "mac builds" forum thread
10:46 Calinou   why not a download link in the download section of minetest.net :P
10:46 celeron56 as it appears no one guy will come and stick around but rather multiple people randomly work on it
10:47 Calinou   better than nothing
18:18 dannydark Hi all, would someone be kind enough to merge my fullscreen_bpp fix? that sets the bit rate for fullscreen to its correct bit rate value which in turn fixes fullscreen mode.
18:20 dannydark The Irrlicht documentation/code states that 16 and 32 are the only valid values for this, I know putting a different value to 16/32 makes the game window less which some people like on some linux desktops, but...
18:20 dannydark I feel that it should be set at its correct value so that fullscreen works correctly and then people who want to get this "window less mode" can just change it to a invalid value
18:22 dannydark windowless*
18:22 PilzAdam  can you link this Irrlicht documentation?
18:22 dannydark Yeah one sec
18:23 dannydark ok the first mention is here: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/example001.html in the tutorial ("bits: Amount of color bits per pixel. This should be 16 or 32. The parameter is often ignored when running in windowed mode.")
18:23 dannydark I will find the other references
18:25 felix20   Wow cool, I just compiled minetest from Code::Blocks
18:27 dannydark PilzAdam: Sorry struggling to find the other links, give me a minute or two
18:28 PilzAdam  sure
18:39 dannydark hmm nope can't seem to find them now, changing the bit rate to 32 or 16 though also fixes "Switch to fullscreen: The graphics mode is not supported." error as well as "Depth stencil buffer is not compatibile with video format." which I was getting while playing around with shadows
18:45 dannydark PilzAdam: Also seperate to this, will your controls branch be getting merged anytime soon? (even if it is after 0.4.4 just curious if it will get merged ^_^)
18:46 PilzAdam  dunno, it depends on what others think about it
18:47 dannydark I personally think all the tweaks and changes you have made are a good move, also the fly/noclip thing we was talking about the other day are obviously something I would like to see merged
18:48 celeron55 i don't like sprinting
18:49 celeron55 could somebody possibly explain to me what is the point of it?
18:50 dannydark I quite like the sprinting idea, although I didn't test that does it also increase the head bobbing speed? (while sprinting)
18:50 PilzAdam  celeron55, i just added it to test it
18:50 dannydark Well sprinting will be useful for when/if aggressive mobs are added
18:50 PilzAdam  and i agree that it doesnt make any sense
18:51 dannydark If your being chased by a mob in a cave while you have a lot of mined mese it gives the player a bit more of a chance to escape
18:51 Calinou   sprinting + stamina would be ok
18:52 Calinou   but please no hunger :facepalm:
18:52 dannydark although at the moment you don't drop/loose your inventory
18:52 celeron55 i have sprinting and stamina in games
18:52 celeron55 ...
18:52 celeron55 hate*
18:52 Calinou   i suggest adding bones mod :P
18:52 celeron55 bones is good
18:52 PilzAdam  I like the idea of the bones mod but the node looks ugly
18:52 celeron55 i like the looks of it too
18:53 dannydark but I think eventually it would be nice to see you drop your inventory or something similar when on survival...to make it a little less creative
18:53 celeron55 by the way, i won't be doing any actual stuff in a few days probably; i just don't feel like it
18:54 Calinou   adding bones mod (maybe with changed texture?) in 0.4.4 would be good, imo
18:55 celeron55 (the bad thing about me being the main developer AND the producer/general do-all person is that if i get tired as a programmer, i am not around picking up the stuff that was done and polishing and packaging it for people...)
18:56 Calinou   PilzAdam/darkrose/thexyz could do it :P
18:57 dannydark does anyone have a link to the bones mod? can't seem to find it using the forum search
18:57 PilzAdam  im searching it too
18:58 PilzAdam  got it: http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2206
18:58 dannydark found it:http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2206
18:58 dannydark haha ^_^
18:58 celeron55 the forum search is kind of crappy for searching mods 8)
18:58 PilzAdam  it depends on worldtime, need to fix that
18:58 dannydark I had to search by "bone" rather than "bones" :S
18:59 Calinou   then include worldtime in default mod :P
18:59 dannydark ^ Yeah sounds like it could be quite useful
18:59 celeron55 google does a good job finding stuff from the minetest forum too though
18:59 PilzAdam  ehm node timers?
18:59 celeron55 https://www.google.fi/search?q=minetest+bones+mod
19:00 celeron55 -> first result
19:00 Calinou   google.fi, heh
19:00 dannydark Ah nice ^_^ haha will use google in the future if I have problems finding anything hehe
19:00 PilzAdam  its way too many code for this little mod
19:00 celeron55 google even finds stuff from the channel los
19:00 celeron55 logs*
19:01 celeron55 like, completely random API design discussions and what ever
19:01 Calinou   distro wars too
19:01 PilzAdam  this mod code is completly crap
19:02 Calinou   only concern is, does it use a lot of CPU? other than that I don't care
19:02 PilzAdam  but I do
19:02 Calinou   the end user is not going to read code, he is going to care about the speed of the game, and whether they lose their items when dying
19:03 PilzAdam  it can be done without the abm
19:03 dannydark Calinou: true but it would be nice to keep anything included by default to some sort of high standard
19:03 dannydark as many people will probably use the code as starting point for there own mods
19:04 PilzAdam  I can rewrite this mod
19:04 celeron55 a node timer?
19:05 PilzAdam  it doesnt allow other players to take the items for some time
19:06 celeron55 hmm, oh yeah, you don't need almost anything for that 8)
19:06 PilzAdam  should i keep this feature?
19:06 Calinou   yeah, it's ok
19:06 dannydark +1 from me
19:06 Calinou   reduce time to 1 hour maybe?
19:06 Calinou   default is 2
19:07 Calinou   maybe make it a minetest.conf setting (if not already, no idea)
19:07 celeron55 but it changes the infotext to "foo's old bones" when they are old enough to take from by anyone
19:07 celeron55 that should continue to happen in your improved one too
19:08 celeron55 and... the time of how long it takes should not get decided at the time the bone node is created
19:08 celeron55 if somebody sets the time to 100 years, dies, sets it to 2 hours and waits 2 hours, it should be available for picking up
19:08 PilzAdam  in this case its not possible with node timers
19:09 celeron55 or does somebody have a differing opinion
19:09 dannydark yeah keeping the player name would be nice, also fun for trolling people :D if you find there bones and loot
19:09 PilzAdam  IMO make the items public immediatly
19:09 Calinou   lol no
19:09 celeron55 i think the feature should be kept
19:09 celeron55 most definitely
19:10 celeron55 and i wouldn't object just using it as-is... it's quite standalone anyway
19:10 celeron55 altough for example bones.replaceable_node_types is bullshit 8)
19:11 celeron55 should check some property
19:11 celeron55 or just place it no matter what
19:11 dannydark what if you die in lava?
19:11 Calinou   "place it no matter what" > maybe, but drop the node that was replaced (like falling nodes)
19:12 dannydark although I guess if you die in lava you could always dig it out
19:12 PilzAdam  it should replace everything; so polite players can go into dirt when dying so noone has to dig out the grave
19:12 Calinou   maybe add PilzAdam's builtin_item mod too, it 1) destroys items in lava, 2) moves items in flowing water, 3) makes items disappear after a while (should be set to 1 hour probably, like bones)
19:13 dannydark +1
19:13 PilzAdam  the water thing is hacky
19:14 Calinou   gtg now
19:15 celeron55 oh also, i have thought the snow mod would really improve up the terrain... but i am not sure if it performs well enough for upstream
19:15 celeron55 as the api just sucks for what it does
19:15 VanessaE  that plus jungle trees (but not bas080's code, it's too slow unmodified)
19:15 celeron55 jungle trees is slow as the most hell of hells
19:16 VanessaE  I'm working on improving it.
19:16 celeron55 oh, umm... i guess that was the jungle
19:16 celeron55 you should imagine api functions that would speed up the job
19:16 celeron55 and write them down as a proposal somewhere
19:17 VanessaE  meh, anything i think up, you'll call horrible :-)
19:17 celeron55 i have wanted to examine the snow mod and do that too, but i just don't have time...
19:17 celeron55 vanessa-grade horrible is slightly better than nothing
19:17 dannydark Yeah snow type biomes would be nice, although it would probably be better added via the new mapgen that hmmmm is working on? instead of just sticking a mod in that will be removed once the new mapgen is done (im guessing)
19:18 VanessaE  but it seems to me we need hooks to specify the type of trunk, the trunk thickness, the types of leaves, and the pattern of those leaves (that's the hard one)
19:18 celeron55 dannydark: hmmmm's mapgen is probably going to take so long nobody'll want to wait, and also such functions are needed anyway
19:18 VanessaE  maybe a few hard-coded default leaf patterns is enough for now
19:19 celeron55 i wouldn't think that would be a good way to do it
19:19 celeron55 rather just make the mapgen figure out where to put the individual trees (that is the hard part) and then feed the coordinates to lua
19:19 celeron55 which can just put them there
19:19 VanessaE  normally I wouldn't either, but specifying a leaf pattern any other way basically means supplying several formulas or something
19:20 dannydark celeron55: yeah I guess :( just was hoping hmmmm to jump into the convo then and say it was nearly ready haha >_<
19:20 VanessaE  if experimenting with the conifers and jungletrees mods is anything to go by, building nice trees in Lua is *dog* slow.
19:21 dannydark would jump*
19:21 celeron55 some function like "EnvRef:generate_plant_positions(minp, maxp, {some options}) -> table of positions" would probably be very useful
19:22 celeron55 VanessaE: i don't know, but i think the way slowest part is finding where to put them
19:22 VanessaE  celeron55: actually the jungletrees mod uses something like that, by way of the generate ("generate ore?") function
19:22 VanessaE  it places saplings, when then grow later.
19:23 VanessaE  generate("jungletree:sapling", {"default:dirt_with_grass"}, minp, maxp, 0, 20, 10, 50, {"default:water_source"}, 30, {"default:desert_sand"})
19:23 celeron55 VanessaE: ...there is no such function made in C++
19:23 PilzAdam  bones mod: should there be an inventory of the bones? or just punch it to get the items back?
19:23 VanessaE  this is probably in bas080's habitat mod come to think of it.
19:23 VanessaE  yup, it is.
19:24 dannydark PilzAdam: inventory would be nice, sometimes you might not want all the items back
19:25 celeron55 i guess if you dig it up you'd get everyhting, but how does one remove one without getting the items then...
19:26 celeron55 add a "remove" button to the displayed form? :---D
19:27 hmmmm     it was nearly ready haha
19:27 VanessaE  celeron55: at any rate, I don't think deriving the list of "grow here" positions is all that difficult, especially if you layer it on top of the existing mapgen - I mean, you already generate dirt with grass, why not just use some predictable pseudo-random function against the mapblock that was just generated?  or perlin noise or something.
19:27 dannydark Ah good point >_<
19:27 hmmmm     i've got projects and crap this week and then finals next week
19:27 dannydark hmmmm: .....was?
19:27 dannydark ah fair enough ^_^
19:27 hmmmm     well i just said exactly what you wanted to say
19:28 VanessaE  celeron55: here's how it's done in the jungletrees mod, in Lua of course:  http://pastebin.com/BH5Y9JZ5
19:28 hmmmm     yeah the mapgen stuff is done but i have a small problem where the generated blocks don't line up, that's going to be somewhat difficult to debug
19:29 dannydark hmmmm: is it up on your github?
19:29 hmmmm     to work on the new noise functions in the first place and compare parameters i made a separate gtk application that'll generate a perlin noise map of your choosing
19:29 hmmmm     no i didn't commit the latest changes
19:29 hmmmm     the one on the github right now either crashes or doesn't generate anything
19:29 hmmmm     and is totally unlit
19:30 hmmmm     hrm
19:32 dannydark oh haha, well if you could commit your latest changes if you get a chance maybe someone might spot the issue? or at least we would be able to try and help ^_^
19:32 hmmmm     it's the 5th, that paper is due on the 8th, the big paper is due by the 14th, the homework can wait, i need to do some emailing, so i guess that's okay
19:32 hmmmm     i'll take a nap and then finish this up today
19:33 hmmmm     hopefully
19:33 hmmmm     i need to go to my newphews' birthday party and that's going to suck up like 4 hours
19:33 hmmmm     s/newphews/nephews/
19:33 celeron55 newbie's
19:34 dannydark lol
19:34 VanessaE  celeron55, speaking of mapgen, can you explain this?
19:34 VanessaE  celeron55: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/mapgenbug.png
19:34 hmmmm     what's the bug there?
19:34 VanessaE  note the RTT at the top, and the CPU usage of the server in the terminal at the lower left.
19:34 celeron55 how many MBs is that
19:34 hmmmm     less than 1
19:35 celeron55 i'm on the sucky cellphone once again
19:35 VanessaE  I teleported back to spawn, the map simply did not load.
19:35 VanessaE  celeron55: 324 kB
19:35 VanessaE  the map tool forever and a day to load (it has since done so)
19:35 hmmmm     RTT means round time trip
19:35 VanessaE  took*
19:35 hmmmm     that's related to network
19:36 hmmmm     not really related to cpu usage
19:36 VanessaE  hmmmm: yes I know - my point of mentioning that is that I'm running a client on the same machine the server's running on, so the network can't possibly be at fault
19:36 celeron55 RTT is just how long it takes for a packet to get through network, times two
19:37 VanessaE  and the mention of CPU load to show the server is neither crashed nor spinning out of control
19:37 celeron55 and now that the base protocol is handled in a thread, the server will usually answer to pings even if it is completely utterly stuck 8)
19:37 hmmmm     oh
19:37 hmmmm     so you're wondering why nothing up to where your position is was generated?
19:37 hmmmm     even though the cpu is working hard?
19:37 hmmmm     that's just how slow the current mapgen is
19:38 VanessaE  hmmmm: correct.  I waited for almost a minute for the map to regenerate there, after waiting a few 10's of seconds at the spot in the distance before teleporting back.
19:38 hmmmm     haha it takes way more than a minute
19:38 celeron55 looking at the "received packets" graph of F5 gives a good idea if the server is alive
19:38 hmmmm     what cpu are you on
19:38 hmmmm     you using
19:38 VanessaE  hmmmm:  AMD Phenom II X6 1055T
19:38 hmmmm     well
19:38 VanessaE  (2.6 GHz)
19:38 celeron55 ehm
19:38 hmmmm     it's single threaded so don't expect much
19:39 VanessaE  Oh I know that.
19:39 celeron55 on this 3.1GHz i3 the mapgen is very responsive
19:39 hmmmm     besides, those thuban cores are pretty weak individually
19:39 hmmmm     oh
19:39 VanessaE  but spinning at 40+ percent CPU but doing apparently nothing? :-)
19:39 celeron55 doesn't take more than 5 seconds to get a generated area to wherever one goes
19:39 hmmmm     really?
19:39 dannydark is that cpu usage for the minetestserver, or the client?
19:40 hmmmm     vanessa, it could be that the emerge queue is stuck
19:40 hmmmm     i've seen it happen from time to time
19:40 VanessaE  dannydark: well I just now saw that the server got bumped out of the screenshot just a split second before I took it, but it was riding at about 45% for the server and the usual near-100% for the client.
19:40 PilzAdam  bones mod: should the crafting grid be placed into the bones? or lost? or stay in the player?
19:40 hmmmm     i want to redo that entire thing after i'm done with this so that problem might disappear
19:40 PilzAdam  IMO it should be lost
19:41 dannydark I agree it should be lost
19:41 VanessaE  PilzAdam: into the bones.
19:41 celeron55 it is more likely that the combination of the block sending system and the map generation/fetching system is stuck, rather than either or
19:41 VanessaE  it's still inventory.
19:41 VanessaE  celeron55: that's what I was thinking.  I'd blame my mods if the server were stuck at 100% :-)
19:43 VanessaE  celeron55: in fact, if I didn't know better I'd swear it looks like the result of lost packets without retransmits
19:43 celeron55 PilzAdam: maybe the reasonable thing would be to try to put the items from it to the main inventory, and if they don't fit, just discard
19:43 VanessaE  (but that's probably wrong)
19:48 VanessaE  oh something I noticed:  when the mapgen (or whatever) does this?  The server also seems to forget where I am.  if I were to have signed out at the moment of that screenshot, I would have spawned in the area in the distance on sign-in
19:49 VanessaE  sokomine had that happen with his 0.4.3 client on my 0.4.4 server as well, though more severely.
19:50 hmmmm     alright well i committed the latest changes to the mapgen
19:51 hmmmm     i really doubt anybody but me is going to be the one to figure out what's wrong
19:51 hmmmm     as you can see the source is pretty hackish looking as of right now
19:51 hmmmm     i'll do cleaning when it's 100%
20:13 PilzAdam  what should be the name of the setting in minetest.conf?
20:13 PilzAdam  publish_bones?
20:16 VanessaE  share_bones
20:17 VanessaE  or wait, we're talking about being able to loot someone's bones right away?
20:17 PilzAdam  and the default value? 1 hour?
20:17 VanessaE  well the default is 2 hours isn't it?
20:17 PilzAdam  VanessaE, yes
20:17 PilzAdam  (to the loot thing)
20:18 VanessaE  then share_bones_time = 1200
20:18 VanessaE  assuming you wanna specify it as in-game time.
20:18 PilzAdam  i will use seconds
20:19 VanessaE  ok.
20:19 PilzAdam  so 3600 will be default for me
20:19 VanessaE  share_bones_time = 7200
20:19 PilzAdam  why so long?
20:19 VanessaE  because that's the default from the original mod as I recall?
20:20 VanessaE  "They stay fresh for a short period of time (by default, 2 hours)."
20:20 PilzAdam  why keep this?
20:20 VanessaE  I see no reason to shorten that time.
20:20 PilzAdam  people have to hurry a bit to get their items back
20:21 celeron55 let's make it dynamically two times the time that it takes to directly run from the spawning place to there 8D
20:21 VanessaE  hm
20:21 celeron55 (no)
20:22 PilzAdam  IMO 10 mins.
20:22 VanessaE  well I was gonna say, if you can find a decent way to calculate running distance back to the spawn..... ;-)
20:23 celeron55 let's set it to 20 minutes
20:23 celeron55 because that is 24 hours in the day cycle
20:23 celeron55 by default
20:23 celeron55 ...iirc
20:26 PilzAdam  https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest_game/commits/bones
20:31 celeron55 pretty straightforward
20:33 PilzAdam  gtg now; feel free to merge it
20:33 PilzAdam  bye
20:34 celeron55 it should have a configuration option for disable/enable too i guess
20:34 celeron55 altough dunno how we're going to manage all these different things
20:34 celeron55 gameplay thins
20:34 celeron55 things*
20:35 dannydark or maybe just have it disabled for creative and always enabled for survival?
20:39 celeron55 i think we could just throw it in like that and see what users generally think
20:39 celeron55 i mean, disabled in creative mode
21:53 Taoki     http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=55209 I posted about a feature suggestion I had, which I think would be really interesting to consider (the post is a bit larger). In short, I'm thinking of a feature to allow realtime scripting from the minetest client while the server is running, so any player can create custom items on servers with this feature enabled (similar to Second Life).