Time  Nick         Message
03:52 VanessaE     stupid wireless.
11:51 VanessaE     celeron55: when you sign on and see this in the logs, I had some trouble compiling minetest for an old laptop (running Ubuntu Intrepid, because anything newer lacks support for the video device thereon).  You have a version check in your CMakeLists.txt that doesn't exist on "old" systems.  Further, you are setting a flag in src/CmakeLists.txt regarding warning of unused results.  This does not work on older compilers.  So t
11:51 VanessaE     his overall breaks the concept of minetest working well on "old" computers.
11:51 VanessaE     (I'd give you more exact references if I had them, but they're already long gone)
11:57 VanessaE     by removing the two offending references I was able to compile and run the game normally.
12:03 VanessaE     the version check used STREQUAL to look for I think 2.8.x, but that function is not supported on 2.6
15:38 PilzAdam     https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest_game/commit/22a4e2de99594c7690f8855ce85ba85cba673ac7
15:39 PilzAdam     anything against this?
17:04 thexyz       celeron55, darkrose: did you see that? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/288
17:06 celeron55    moving stuff from localplayer.h to player.h does not look like something that should be done at all
17:11 thexyz       why?
17:12 thexyz       (in this case)
17:13 celeron55    hmm... i guess it's reasonablish in this case
17:14 celeron55    that doesn't allow listening for key clicks though, only continuous presses; those might need to be done some day too
17:16 RealBadAngel celeron55, it has to be moved, to synchronize data between local and remote
17:17 RealBadAngel that structure was before only for local player
17:17 RealBadAngel i moved the definition to player.h so both instaces can have it
17:17 celeron55    "PlayerControl control;" looks like it shouldn't be a class instance variable
17:17 RealBadAngel then made a bridge
17:17 celeron55    it should be in the function
17:18 RealBadAngel you mean it should be in protected?
17:18 celeron55    no
17:18 celeron55    PlayerControl getPlayerControl(){ PlayerControl control; ... return control; }
17:19 celeron55    there is no use for it as an instance variable
17:19 RealBadAngel it is
17:19 RealBadAngel your old one
17:19 celeron55    wat?
17:19 RealBadAngel this way it was copied over to it
17:19 RealBadAngel pressed keys
17:20 RealBadAngel ive added just getPlayerControl to read it
17:20 celeron55    oh eh
17:20 celeron55    well then your change is just completely messed up
17:20 RealBadAngel and on the server side to decompress bit packed data
17:21 RealBadAngel i dont think so
17:21 RealBadAngel on client side it doesnt change anything
17:21 RealBadAngel it doesnt have to
17:21 celeron55    remove "u16 keyPressed;" and directly set the PlayerControl control variable in the TOSERVER_PLAYERPOS handler
17:22 RealBadAngel i do want both packed and old style variables
17:22 celeron55    something like setPlayerControlFromBits(u16 keyPressed)
17:22 celeron55    it makes zero sense to have both
17:23 RealBadAngel for me personally bit packed is more usable
17:23 darkrose     that'd make it easier to watch for clicks in the future too
17:23 RealBadAngel and makes code faster
17:23 RealBadAngel bit operations are way faster than on strings
17:25 darkrose     wtf strings?
17:25 RealBadAngel but i can make it this way too
17:25 RealBadAngel shall it be called on receive or on demand?
17:26 RealBadAngel bit packed is the real stuff that comes from side to side
17:27 RealBadAngel now im restoring control only when got demand on reading it
17:28 RealBadAngel i thought makin it 5 times a sec is not necesary when no one wants to read it actually
17:29 RealBadAngel so made it on demand
17:30 celeron55    the performance overhead is so small there is no reason to not make two variables to be one; also, if it is read 10 times a second, yours is slower because it recreates it all of those times while it is received 5 times 8)
17:30 celeron55    it'd need a "cache dirty" flag, and then it's even more complicated for no measurable benefit
17:31 RealBadAngel so shall i duplicate all the variables received on the server side just when i received them?
17:31 celeron55    you spread the u16 to player->control right there (altough make it look like player->setPlayerControlFromBits(keyPressed) or similar
17:32 RealBadAngel this way they will be synced, at least to .2 sec
17:32 RealBadAngel ok, so i will do that
17:32 RealBadAngel but one question
17:33 RealBadAngel apart from this
17:33 RealBadAngel .2s delay can be too much for animations, dont you think?
17:33 celeron55    (it'd help code readability to somehow encapsulate the isKeyDown stuff to a symmetric counterpart to that, but i don't see how that'd go easy enough
17:33 celeron55    )
17:34 RealBadAngel on the server side kepress donw. hold, released shall be recreated
17:34 celeron55    there's no problem of it being suboptimal; this is going to be (at least for now) just the generic way of doing things when there is no other option
17:35 RealBadAngel this we shall check in gameplay imho
17:36 RealBadAngel maybe .2s will be enough
17:36 RealBadAngel on the keys i will apply your suggestions
17:37 celeron55    well, you could add a key update packet (transferring that u16) that the client would send always when it sees a press or release
17:37 celeron55    but i don't think it's important
17:37 RealBadAngel i dont think so too
17:37 RealBadAngel 0.2 or .1s is enough
17:38 RealBadAngel we dont need to raise packets being sent there and back
17:38 RealBadAngel 2bytes extra doesnt change anythin and thats ok
17:39 RealBadAngel im sending 9 bits in fact
17:40 RealBadAngel 7 left for more keys, more than enough
17:41 RealBadAngel if we do have aux1, lets make aux1-8
17:41 celeron55    when doing networking or other serialization stuff, you generally want to oversize everything by orders of magnitude
17:41 RealBadAngel all will be more than happy with it
17:41 celeron55    but it doesn't really matter in here
17:41 celeron55    i would've made that 32 bits though
17:41 RealBadAngel this partical change wont affect anything
17:42 RealBadAngel those 7 are already transferred
17:42 RealBadAngel just could be used
17:43 RealBadAngel btw celeron55, i really admire the game code
17:43 RealBadAngel its really self explaining
17:43 RealBadAngel had no problems to dive into it
17:45 RealBadAngel i believe with my pathches i do follow the same way
17:46 celeron55    it's not really good or bad; pretty much average videogame code for most parts
17:46 RealBadAngel that 99,5% of humanity wont understand ;)
17:47 celeron55    but nice to hear somebody had easy time with it; some princesses just puke at it because they're used to some kind of utter perfection
17:47 RealBadAngel i told ya im a coder, but i guess you wouldnt believe just words
17:48 RealBadAngel can feel the style of coding
17:49 RealBadAngel my personal is a bit messy, i know
17:49 RealBadAngel im too much of real low level, with code in mind just
17:53 RealBadAngel propably if minetest was written by me you wouldnt get so easy time ;)
17:53 RealBadAngel so maybe its better you are the boss hehehe
17:55 RealBadAngel i will rewrite patch by tommorow
17:55 celeron55    you need to change roughly 3 lines of code 8)
17:56 RealBadAngel yup
17:56 RealBadAngel but i was thinkin also bout change requested by PilzAdam
17:56 RealBadAngel register function called on a key press for a player
17:57 PilzAdam     i know this kind of callback function from Java ;-)
17:58 RealBadAngel but this gonna be extra ones
17:58 celeron55    that's not so simple at all; you need a way to move around the events pretty much from the main loop to the server, having a new packet on the way and whatnot
17:58 RealBadAngel Taoki and me want just the basic
17:58 celeron55    otherwise it's not reliable
17:58 RealBadAngel check the current state
17:59 RealBadAngel we dont want to wait for callbacks, we just want to know whats going on when we execute our code
18:00 RealBadAngel but i guess your way will be very useful for aux 2-8
18:01 RealBadAngel so a mod can define actions for key pressed
18:02 PilzAdam     fus-ro-dah mod?
18:03 RealBadAngel lol
18:03 RealBadAngel why not ? :)
18:03 RealBadAngel i love this game
18:03 RealBadAngel played it a lot
18:04 RealBadAngel one of the best RPGs ever made imho
18:05 RealBadAngel right next to Gothic series
18:05 PilzAdam     Gothic 1 is the best game of all times
18:05 RealBadAngel they made also another one
18:05 RealBadAngel better
18:06 RealBadAngel can you recall?
18:06 celeron55    to me, chrono trigger is the best rpg of all times
18:06 RealBadAngel Risen
18:06 Calinou      best RPG ever is minecraft, listen to their fanboys and they're making you a RPG
18:06 RealBadAngel its gothic^2
18:06 Calinou      they'll*
18:07 RealBadAngel when the world will be more in finished state
18:07 PilzAdam     i played Risen, but Gothic is better
18:07 RealBadAngel and open to more changes
18:08 RealBadAngel players will be able to do anything they want to with it
18:08 jin_xi       nethack!
18:08 RealBadAngel thats a definition of sandbox
18:09 celeron55    nethack is an rpg, i guess, yes 8)
18:09 RealBadAngel celeron55, have you seen IrrBullet in action?
18:09 celeron55    no
18:09 celeron55    in fact i hadn't even heard of that
18:10 RealBadAngel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScniyBdEUlE
18:12 RealBadAngel quite interesting
18:13 PilzAdam     I dont think minetest needs that
18:13 RealBadAngel not really
18:13 RealBadAngel we were just lookin (with Taoki) what Irrlicht can offer
18:14 RealBadAngel we decided when 3d players are done to go for shaders
18:15 RealBadAngel meanwhile i wanted to make Portals
18:15 darkrose     didn't someone do shaders ages ago? (or start to anyway)
18:15 RealBadAngel we know
18:15 RealBadAngel kahrl
18:16 RealBadAngel he applied there one primitive shader
18:16 RealBadAngel we want to go further
18:17 PilzAdam     RealBadAngel, add a checkbox to the main menu: "Awesome Mode"; make minetest look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eFVPMYUXfs
18:17 RealBadAngel yup, we do have it in mind
18:17 PilzAdam     or better ;-)
18:17 RealBadAngel all extra is by choice
18:17 thexyz       PilzAdam: you mean, lag as shit on quad-core pc with decent video card?
18:18 thexyz       i guess i can implement it
18:18 RealBadAngel ah, celeron55 i wanted to ask you what do you think bout Portals idea
18:19 RealBadAngel lemme explain quick: portals (gates) in the worlds (servers) that when crossed will connect players directly with other (predefined by Portal structure) server
18:20 RealBadAngel without need to exit to menu, type address, etc
18:20 RealBadAngel just in game
18:21 RealBadAngel so players could be able to jump from one server to another
18:21 RealBadAngel like for example OldCoders nexus
18:22 RealBadAngel one central world with Portals to all the servers
18:22 celeron55    that needs one api call from lua that will make the server send a connect-to-somewhere-else command to the client of a player
18:22 celeron55    in a "security policy" kind of sense, that's equivalent to a http redirect
18:22 RealBadAngel not really
18:23 RealBadAngel all code is here already
18:23 RealBadAngel and rules are not changing
18:23 RealBadAngel its all done as if the player went back to menu
18:23 RealBadAngel and typed new ip and port
18:24 RealBadAngel just omit that phase
18:24 RealBadAngel and directly connect to the server
18:24 celeron55    how is that not what i said
18:24 RealBadAngel hmmm
18:25 RealBadAngel you cannot connect to everywhere else
18:25 RealBadAngel just to another minetest server
18:25 celeron55    somewhere-else being of course a completely specified address
18:25 celeron55    of a minetest server
18:26 RealBadAngel if not your character will be back in starting world
18:26 RealBadAngel in case of wrong defined portal, or server down etc
18:26 celeron55    i assume that requires using the same name+password on all servers
18:26 RealBadAngel yes
18:27 RealBadAngel which doesnt require central server at all
18:27 RealBadAngel when player was logged into target world
18:28 celeron55    well, some kind of a public key scheme would work without a central server too, but it's kind of out of scope for now
18:28 celeron55    also, a "token" + p2p setup between servers would work too
18:28 celeron55    but those have other problems
18:28 RealBadAngel forgot pass or somethin, will require to ask this world rulers to allow him to travel to this world (ie reset pass, or something)
18:29 celeron55    well, minetest allows replacing the authentication handler with a mod
18:29 RealBadAngel key could also work
18:29 celeron55    somebody could write one that uses a central database
18:29 celeron55    for all of the servers
18:29 RealBadAngel but this simple idea
18:29 RealBadAngel could create World Of Minetest
18:30 RealBadAngel with many server connected
18:30 celeron55    with a huge amount of servers, it will make serious password stealing problems
18:30 RealBadAngel so keys
18:31 RealBadAngel instead of passwords
18:31 celeron55    what keys
18:32 celeron55    i kind of know how to set up real cryptographic protocols and schemes too (i've worked with those for months now), so those aren't out of the question either; but i don't know if i am going to allocate enough time for doing that
18:32 RealBadAngel pgp?
18:34 RealBadAngel some will surely find time to do that
18:34 RealBadAngel thats what minecraft dont have
18:34 celeron55    some diffie-helmann stuff and public keys should do the trick for trusted login and server-to-server authorization
18:35 RealBadAngel technic stuff
18:35 RealBadAngel surely to be solved
18:35 * darkrose   seems to recall a patch along those lines too
18:35 RealBadAngel think how minetest servers could look like then
18:35 celeron55    it was not very related
18:36 RealBadAngel come to my world, sure, follow me
18:36 RealBadAngel lets visit some sky worlds, or inferno ones
18:37 RealBadAngel or play skyblock, or just dig in another world
18:37 RealBadAngel just follow me
18:37 RealBadAngel THAT minecraft doesnt have
18:37 PilzAdam     I have a idea: replace the main menu with a local minetest world
18:38 RealBadAngel and a Portal to the WoM?
18:38 celeron55    if that lua command i mentioned was implemented, that could be done already
18:39 celeron55    just make a shortcut that makes it launch to that world directly
18:39 RealBadAngel WoM = World of Minetest :)
18:39 celeron55    you'd just create portals to servers in there by yourself then
18:39 RealBadAngel admins could be able to create Portals
18:39 RealBadAngel not the players
18:40 celeron55    did you read what PilzAdam said?
18:40 RealBadAngel so local player could create a portal to a certain server
18:40 RealBadAngel yes
18:40 RealBadAngel but for the portal to be functional
18:40 RealBadAngel admin of that desired server shall agree to open it
18:41 celeron55    that isn't necessary at all
18:41 celeron55    completely irrelevant
18:41 celeron55    and as for the go-back way, there could be just a back button in the client in case there isn't a way back to the previous server
18:42 RealBadAngel in case of fail, land in starting one
18:42 RealBadAngel with proper message
18:42 KikaRz       Mr RealBadAngel
18:42 KikaRz       I consider that as a mini bad idea.
18:43 KikaRz       reason: when i want to change to another server, if i dont restart game
18:43 KikaRz       i get Access Violation
18:43 RealBadAngel no, we assume to servers workin
18:43 KikaRz       ... not that
18:43 RealBadAngel and smoothly traveling between them
18:44 KikaRz       Access violation at 0109EF03 write?=0 address=0
18:44 RealBadAngel Minecraft has nether and other dimensions
18:44 KikaRz       In trans_func.
18:44 KikaRz       oh
18:44 KikaRz       thats better.
18:44 KikaRz       but changing server to other server...
18:44 KikaRz       its a bit... complicated.
18:45 RealBadAngel my idea is to have servers instead of dimensions
18:45 RealBadAngel complete different world with different sets of mods
18:45 RealBadAngel like travelling through StarGate
18:46 RealBadAngel to offworlds
18:46 KikaRz       but how servers?
18:46 RealBadAngel all the servers we do have now
18:46 RealBadAngel and in the future
18:46 RealBadAngel could be easily connected
18:47 RealBadAngel by makin a Portal structure leadin to certain server
18:47 RealBadAngel so player just steps in
18:48 KikaRz       very complicate.
18:48 RealBadAngel no
18:48 KikaRz       the mods are going to be unloaded and loaded...
18:48 KikaRz       and if we bug
18:48 KikaRz       we got to get lag in unloading and loading mods
18:48 KikaRz       and...
18:48 KikaRz       CONFUSION IN WORKING
18:48 RealBadAngel servers shall be reliable
18:48 KikaRz       ok
18:49 KikaRz       NEED TO LEARN TO MOD!
18:49 KikaRz       whats the command of away?
18:49 RealBadAngel if not player will get message "theres rebellion at world xxx right now. sorry no travels possible until further notice"
18:50 KikaRz       lol
18:50 RealBadAngel in earth language: servers down ;)
18:50 KikaRz       http://api.minetest.net/page/view/view/intro.html
18:50 KikaRz       need to see that
18:51 RealBadAngel and of course mods and textures will differ
18:51 * KikaRz     - KikooBOT - IRC: KikaRz(USER1:ADMMOVI) is now away: Learning to get modding.
18:51 RealBadAngel you will travel another world
18:52 RealBadAngel real Another World
18:56 RealBadAngel celeron55, so i assume youre in general like the idea?
18:58 celeron55    i like the fact that the minimal version of it is very simple and small
18:58 RealBadAngel hehehe
18:58 celeron55    thus it is easy test in practice, and there is no need to try to guess how it'd work beforehand
18:58 celeron55    to test*
18:59 RealBadAngel but it should be nice to add a feature that minecraft dont have, isnt it?
19:00 KikaRz       RealBadAngel
19:00 KikaRz       give me some classes of modding.
19:00 KikaRz       I'm dieing in Lua
19:01 KikaRz       *dying
19:01 RealBadAngel jeez, i was servin you as a craftin guide whole day yesterday
19:01 KikaRz       lol
19:01 KikaRz       sry
19:01 KikaRz       ill play you!
19:01 KikaRz       *pay
19:02 KikaRz       not in money... but better than money :p
19:02 KikaRz       or not.
19:02 RealBadAngel yeah, beer for everybody
19:02 PilzAdam     +1
19:02 darkrose     go away and we'll consider you to have paid in full
19:02 KikaRz       celeron55, when minetest was offline... i've been asking RealBadAngel for giving me all recipes of Technic
19:03 KikaRz       ok
19:04 KikaRz       RealBadAngel, tell me that i'm dying.
19:08 RealBadAngel what??
19:09 RealBadAngel ok: "that"
19:09 RealBadAngel i told ya, no get us some beer
19:10 RealBadAngel *now
19:11 KikaRz       ...
19:12 KikaRz       RealBadAngel, sorry but now ill not give you beer!
19:12 RealBadAngel http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1378
19:12 KikaRz       You are not helping. PilzAdam helped :D
19:13 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, ehh, for whole day of anwsering his questions by me, youre goin to drink the beer? ;)
19:14 PilzAdam     yep ;-)
19:14 RealBadAngel not fair :)
19:45 PilzAdam     any thoughts about that? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest_game/pull/40