Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2012-11-11

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
04:05 jyfl987 joined #minetest-dev
09:01 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
09:40 PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev
10:37 celeron55 joined #minetest-dev
12:42 SpeedProg joined #minetest-dev
13:53 PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev
14:28 nyuszika7h joined #minetest-dev
14:55 doserj joined #minetest-dev
15:44 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
15:49 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
15:54 PilzAdam I suggest a vote wether we should add this to upstream: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest_game/pull/33
15:54 PilzAdam *whether
15:55 Calinou nice tracking avatar you have there
15:56 Calinou no cotton, PilzAdam? :sadface:
15:56 PilzAdam cotton can be easily added
15:56 Calinou PilzAdam: your wheat textures.
15:56 Calinou they're from minecraft
15:56 PilzAdam no, they are from RealBadAngel
15:57 Calinou they're still from minecraft
16:01 thexyz rba is so awesome, he can relicense minecraft's textures under wtfpl
16:03 Calinou rba is jeb in disguise
16:07 hmmmm i thought certain textures were released under a really unrestrictive license
16:07 sstrandberg joined #minetest-dev
16:07 hmmmm besides, mojang is aware of minetest.. if they worry about their texture being used, all it takes is a simple email
16:10 Calinou not really
16:10 Calinou it's not because someone asked permission they forever learned about it
16:11 Calinou even a minecraft splash says "Don't bother with the clones!"
16:12 hmmmm no i mean they are aware of minetest in particular; that is, they asked someone if they could use a texture used in minetest released under wtfpl
16:12 hmmmm there was a forum post about it
16:12 hmmmm but nevermind this, it's not engine development chat and i feel bad for being so off-topic
16:13 hmmmm i ought to start idling in #minetest-delta as well
16:39 sstrandberg joined #minetest-dev
17:00 VanessaE joined #minetest-dev
17:11 sstrandberg joined #minetest-dev
17:34 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
17:34 doserj joined #minetest-dev
17:41 sfan5 wtf?
17:41 sfan5 how did realbadangel push this https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commit/8540871ebcfca6584051e1fc042951baa0ed3275 ?
17:42 PilzAdam https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commit/8c3ffa3907dae0c16bfe63965ed6380c7e89df84
17:42 sfan5 :/
17:43 sfan5 there should be extra notes if the commit comes from a pull request
17:44 PilzAdam thats a GItHub thing
17:44 VanessaE and it's irritating.  it clutters up the commit history
17:44 VanessaE it should just be one entry:  authored by X, merged by Y.
17:58 celeron55 for single commits, i tend to git remote add foo https://github.com/foo/minetest.git; git fetch foo; git cherry-pick <commit>; <test that it works>; git push
17:58 celeron55 maybe you should too
18:00 celeron55 works up to a couple of commits by running cherry-pick sequentially for the commits; after that the overhead of a merge isn't that much but i tend to do a rebase then
18:02 celeron55 a matter of taste, really; and a matter of whether one wants to see the inter-github-repo merges visually in github's crappy visualizers
18:02 celeron55 (nobody wants to)
18:17 sstrandberg joined #minetest-dev
18:20 Calinou <test that it works>: unknown command
18:20 Calinou ^ too few FOSS developers installed the package that lets you use that command. :P
18:23 celeron55 s/<test that it works>/make -j2 && bin/minetest/
18:24 darkrose forgot to escape the / in the path
18:24 celeron55 oops, well 8)
18:25 Calinou "make -j2 && bin/minetest/" won't work if you're doing that from src
18:25 Calinou your binary is not in src/bin, it's in bin/
18:25 VanessaE s:<test that it works>:make -j2 && bin/minetest/:
18:25 VanessaE :-)
18:25 Calinou make -j2 && cd ../bin && ./minetest
18:25 Calinou make sure you run the binary from bin
18:25 * PilzAdam uses make -j16
18:25 Calinou make -j8 here, quadcore hyperthreaded cpu
18:26 VanessaE -j12 here, out of 2*#cores habit :-)
18:26 celeron55 Calinou: minetest isn't generally built in src
18:26 celeron55 either the root or something completely different
18:27 celeron55 also, real computer geeks buy as many cores as they have .cpp files in their projects
18:27 celeron55 make -j for the win
18:27 VanessaE hah
18:28 Calinou -j is borked
18:28 Calinou makes compilation much slower for some reason..
18:28 celeron55 of course it does
18:28 celeron55 you for example run completely out of memory
18:28 Calinou 2012: cannot detect how many CPU cores a CPU has
18:28 Calinou the make developers(R)
18:28 celeron55 If the -j option is  given  without an argument, make will not limit the number of jobs that can run simultaneously.
18:29 celeron55 it isn't supposed to even try
18:29 celeron55 also there are many cases when make isn't cpu-bound
18:30 Calinou well that's stupid imo, they should make it use all cpu cores
18:30 celeron55 in which case limiting arbitrarily by cpu cores wouldn't make any sense
18:30 Calinou so that newbies with quadcore cpus aren't slowed down by using one core
18:30 celeron55 well that is an another thing, and it's mostly a distro thing
18:31 celeron55 or, well, dunno
18:31 celeron55 whatever
18:31 celeron55 off to something more interesting ->
18:32 Calinou "nothing" is more interesting!
18:32 thexyz newbies usually don't compile from source
18:32 Calinou what when you tell them to do so
18:32 thexyz tell them -j4
18:32 Calinou slows down people with singlecore cpus
18:32 Calinou (and dualcore without hyperthreading)
18:32 thexyz i don't give a shit
18:32 PilzAdam people with one core are alrady slowed down
18:36 hmmmm usually it's recommended to use number_of_cores * 2 + 1 for the argument to -j
18:36 Calinou why +1?
18:37 hmmmm iunno, i'd say it depends a lot on the type of scheduler your OS uses
18:37 darkrose and some jobs aren't cpu bound, if their io bound +1 will help speed things up
18:37 darkrose s/their/they're/
18:38 hmmmm darkrose:  exactly!  :)  that's the reasoning behind my threaded mapgen thing
18:38 hmmmm nobody has any feedback/comments/suggestions on that i see
18:39 VanessaE you're always talking about it when no one's around :-)
18:39 hmmmm well that's because i'm working on it when i talk about it
18:39 hmmmm perhaps i just need to get the idea out in text because it helps me structure my thoughts
18:40 VanessaE it's a good idea actually
18:42 celeron55 i have a dualcore with no HT and -j2 vs. -j3 is (just tested with a random project) 0m33.882s vs. 0m34.562s
18:42 hmmmm i think it can wait though, the whole multithreading thing is strictly an enhancement that i personally can't even benefit from (i have a single core)
18:42 celeron55 that is, -j2 is better
18:43 celeron55 (on this thing)
18:43 Calinou "(just tested with a random project)" is that project named minetest :OP
18:43 Calinou :P*
18:43 celeron55 no
18:44 hmmmm indeed, it's probably better because the third thread keeps thrashing the cores' caches if it bounces between cores
18:45 celeron55 maybe
18:45 hmmmm oh, i needed to ask you about text on signs
18:45 Calinou next step: compile with -j and swappiness 100
18:45 hmmmm have you attempted that at all?
18:45 Calinou no :)
18:45 hmmmm how about images on signs or 'pictures?
18:46 Calinou images on signs would be awesome; but how are users supposed to upload them?
18:46 hmmmm iunno, how does minecraft do it?
18:46 Calinou no images on signs on minecraft
18:46 VanessaE thexyz did that, pilzadam followed up with his own rewrite of that mod.
18:46 Calinou colored text yes -- images no
18:46 celeron55 hmmmm: i haven't attempted at all, and don't really have any opinions
18:46 Calinou (and you need plugins to type colored text on signs)
18:46 VanessaE (technically, text on signs = images on signs)
18:47 hmmmm well i was watching a minecraft video the other day, and i saw the orthogonal projection of a node on a sign
18:47 Calinou I'm talking about pictures
18:47 Calinou hmmmm: that's an item frame
18:47 hmmmm and i thought "holy crap that's cool"
18:47 Calinou not the same thing
18:47 hmmmm item frame?
18:47 hmmmm what's that
18:47 Calinou right click with any item in hand -- item is put in item frame
18:47 Calinou maps/clocks/compasses are shown as usual
18:47 hmmmm ah
18:47 Calinou rotate the item inside with right click
18:48 hmmmm well maybe we don't need that in particular
18:49 hmmmm but it seems pretty easy to do - you just get the sign texture, get the INVENTORY_<namehere>_RTT texture, transparent blit the the latter onto the former, and there you go
18:50 hmmmm that would be really helpful for lots of chests and i'm sure the modding people would find it useful too
18:50 OdnetninI joined #minetest-dev
18:50 hmmmm and in the same manner, images can be put on the signs, just that the selection of images to do that with would be limited to what's on the server
18:50 celeron55 minetest already has a quite flexible and (C++-)extendable "texture modification" thing; adding different kinds of things to it is easy
18:51 hmmmm but as for the "how are users going to upload pictures" thing - that could come later as it has a lot of potential for abuse and needs a much more elegant solution
18:51 celeron55 it's still largely undocumented
18:52 Calinou talking about textures: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/issues/179 < thoughts?
18:52 hmmmm i'll check it out.  that's the second thing on my list of stuff to do
18:52 celeron55 tile.{h,cpp}
18:52 hmmmm i am doing ServerMap cleaning
18:52 hmmmm isn't the pure white texture already there with clouds?
18:52 Calinou it'd be awesome if the texmod thingy had the ability to recolor textures, btw :P
18:52 Calinou hmmmm: well cloud.png does that, but what about pure black and transparent?
18:53 PilzAdam Calinou, just allow "#000000" in tile definition
18:53 celeron55 you can basically infinitely append "^[modifier:parameters"-like strings to image names, and it'll take care of doing the modifications to the image
18:53 Calinou PilzAdam: oh, you can recolor textures? didn't know
18:53 celeron55 and cache the result
18:53 Calinou what about rotations/flipping though?
18:53 celeron55 the visible text sign mods use that to blit images of letters on a base image
18:54 celeron55 (afaik)
18:54 hmmmm so it seems pretty simple
18:54 hmmmm shouldn't take too long since all the hardware is there already
18:54 hmmmm but i shouldn't call it "easy" just yet because i thought the mapgen replacement was going to be easy until i realized how much unrelated code needed to be reworked for it to fit
18:56 Calinou hmmmm: any screenshots of the new mapgen?
18:57 hmmmm not yet
18:57 hmmmm it doesn't look pretty just yet :)
18:58 OdnetninI hmmmm, are you working in a new mapgen?
18:58 hmmmm you don't really want a screenshot, it's just a crapload of stone everywhere because i need to figure out what combination of values works the best when defining biomes in lua
18:59 hmmmm odentninI, yeah, along with a bunch of other stuff at the same time, it's pretty much done though
19:00 OdnetninI Can you add mines, and quarry?
19:00 hmmmm ...mines?  you mean like caves?  caves are still in there from the previous mapgen
19:00 hmmmm dunno what you mean by quarry
19:01 Calinou quarry = huge vertical holes
19:01 OdnetninI mines, how a real mine, not caves
19:01 VanessaE bbl
19:01 hmmmm ehh... that sort of stuff is best left to the Lua people
19:01 PilzAdam so you want Minecraft?
19:01 Calinou http://media-mcw.cursecdn.com/thumb/a/ae/2011-12-02_12.18.51.png/300px-2011-12-02_12.18.51.png < what MC players do sometimes
19:01 Calinou oops
19:01 Calinou http://media-mcw.cursecdn.com/a/ae/2011-12-02_12.18.51.png
19:02 hmmmm yikes
19:05 Calinou (unrelated to dev, but funny, and funny things go to -dev) what the fu is this: http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=51862#p51862
19:06 hmmmm WTF.  sounds like he's begging to be ignored by people
19:07 Calinou (more related to dev) http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=51803#p51803 < thoughts?
19:07 Calinou imo i'd put the random-cubes-when-loading back, as a feature
19:07 Calinou i really liked it
19:08 PilzAdam but upscale it to the whole screen
19:08 Calinou that'd be ugly
19:08 Calinou keep it to lower-left corner of screen
19:09 Calinou and maybe scale it up a bit so that it is fixed-scale compared to the screen resolution
19:09 PilzAdam its acuatlly funny to make a bug to a feature
19:09 hmmmm looks messy, i think it might a good idea but you'd need to make some kind of black alpha blended box around the text
19:09 hmmmm so the text stands out
19:09 hmmmm besides, how long do people actually look at that screen for?
19:09 hmmmm i mean add it if you'd like... but...
19:10 Calinou about the background, it should stay black imo
19:10 PilzAdam we are talking about the node images in the bottom left corner and not about the background image
19:10 Calinou don't copy a minecraft feature that isn't really good :p
19:10 PilzAdam +1 for black
19:11 hmmmm it's up to personal preference
19:11 hmmmm for these kinds of things, instead of forcing your preference on everybody else, it ought to be conservative and stay what it was before
19:11 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
19:11 Calinou if people don't agree, make it an option, but keep a sensible default
19:12 Calinou white text is easier to read on black background than on light-brown background
19:12 Calinou so black background would be a sensible default here
19:36 OdnetninI hmmmm, what do you change to mapgen?
19:36 hmmmm everything
19:36 OdnetninI how what?
19:36 hmmmm it's all new except for the cave code
19:37 OdnetninI can i test it?
19:37 hmmmm it's not ready yet
19:37 hmmmm when i need testing i'll ask for testing
19:37 hmmmm don't test me, i'm quite testy already
19:37 hmmmm in fact this entire project is just a test
19:38 hmmmm ...of mines
19:38 OdnetninI mmm
21:54 OdnetninI left #minetest-dev
23:46 sstrandberg joined #minetest-dev

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext