Time Nick Message 02:19 hmmmm ahh today's such an off day 02:20 hmmmm well, crap, it looks like i won't be having pumpkins in the Nether by tomorrow 02:21 hmmmm i want to explode Farmesh into nothingness; it makes me define these get_have_beach and tree_amount_2d things that make silly assumptions on how maps are generated and what kind of content they can have 02:22 hmmmm and it's going to be hilariously incorrect with the new mapgen anyway 02:25 hmmmm i think i'm going to want to add some fields to the map DB format, like generation parameters, mapgen version, etc. so a new executable will be able to continue generating old maps just as fine, and maps that are shared will still be able to maintain coherency 02:26 hmmmm so what happened from 0.3 -> 0.4 doesn't happen again 05:11 OldCoder 05:12 OldCoder VanessaE, If you see this, thexyz indicates that the db_leveldb= edit to the .conf file should now be omitted. It is apparently sufficient to edit the world.mt file. Request is to edit your LevelDB post accordingly. 05:12 OldCoder 05:13 OldCoder thexyz, VanessaE, celeron55: LevelDB seems to work well with latest git WorldEdit. I transplanted a building into a regenerated world and it loaded instantly and without apparent problems. //metasave and //metaload may be working now. 05:13 OldCoder 05:14 OldCoder VanessaE, implications are that RedCrab may wish to convert to LevelDB before attempting a WorldEdit copy of his map into a regenerated world. May speed things up. 05:14 OldCoder 05:15 OldCoder Note: These are core dev issues as they relate to decisions about LevelDB which is a fundamental issue. 05:15 OldCoder 05:59 jyfl987 OldCoder: good, i am very happy that you guys now considering leveldb 05:59 OldCoder Hi 05:59 OldCoder jyfl987, More than considering... I am switching all my worlds 05:59 OldCoder Some may run into glitches but this is unavoidable 05:59 jyfl987 OldCoder: i remember i have request this 05:59 OldCoder Very well. It is proceeding. 05:59 jyfl987 after i check the sql file 05:59 OldCoder You may thank thexyz for his hard work 06:00 jyfl987 oh, thexyz again, i found he always give nice technical solution 06:00 OldCoder Yes 06:00 OldCoder I ran into a serious memory problem and he was kind enough to address it 06:00 jyfl987 OldCoder: so what about the performance improment? 06:01 OldCoder It is significant 06:01 OldCoder The advantages are as follows: 06:02 OldCoder 1. Faster runtime. This seems to mean fewer crashes. There are bugs that manifest when things are slow. 06:02 jyfl987 OldCoder: so there wont be lag when you play on localserver? 06:02 OldCoder 2. WorldEdit seems to be much faster. Coupled with the recent fixes to the //meta commands WorldEdit may now become an everyday tool. 06:02 OldCoder I have not tried local server 06:02 OldCoder But there should be improvement 06:02 OldCoder 3. Disk usage is lower 06:03 jyfl987 and i think the improment on write will perform better 06:03 OldCoder Savings are 25% to 50% and up 06:03 OldCoder Yes 06:03 jyfl987 yep, that's cool , 06:03 OldCoder Main problem is: 06:03 OldCoder Slower shutdown but it is not a serious issue 06:03 OldCoder The only thing I'm concerned about is possible bugs that will manifest over time 06:03 OldCoder Memory leaks etc. We will see. 06:03 OldCoder Thank you for your interest jyfl987 06:04 jyfl987 OldCoder: i was guessing is it the thread model's problem? 06:04 OldCoder It is not a problem; it is to be expected 06:05 OldCoder And I am not seeing as significant a slowdown as I thought 06:05 OldCoder It seems to vary 06:05 OldCoder One issue is... 06:05 OldCoder Building under Windows 06:05 OldCoder We need to factor out Boost if possible 06:06 OldCoder cornernote has made an interesting point jyfl987. For some types of tools MySQL will be better as only one process can use a given LevelDB database at a time. 06:07 jyfl987 well ,yes its another problem 06:08 jyfl987 i have reported the win32 built version 's sound doesnt work on win7 64bit 06:08 OldCoder jyfl987, Is this true of the latest Windows client I have built? 06:08 OldCoder Probably; but should be checked 06:09 jyfl987 OldCoder: i built that myself on linux using sfan5's script which modified from celeron55's 06:09 celeron55 is it the matter of wrap_oal.dll or whatever like that not being included? 06:09 jyfl987 nope, i think it might be the mingw's problem 06:09 jyfl987 because the same file could sound on my win xp in a vbox 06:09 celeron55 very unlikely; instead what i said is very likely 06:09 OldCoder jyfl987, I'd be curious as to whether my build manifests the issue. But it probably does. 06:10 celeron55 jyfl987: you just happen to have openal explicitly installed on them 06:10 jyfl987 OldCoder: i will check your version tonight 06:10 jyfl987 OldCoder: can you give me your address of your built? 06:10 OldCoder All right. Use the 30MB version. This will be much faster. 06:10 OldCoder Yes 06:10 jyfl987 OldCoder: btw, i want to try the leveldb version 06:11 OldCoder Most of my worlds are LevelDB on the server side now. I have not built a LevelDB client package yet. 06:11 OldCoder http://minetest.org/clients/minetest-121020.zip 06:11 OldCoder That is a 30MB Windows build from a couple of weeks ago 06:12 jyfl987 OldCoder: but isnt that the client and server share the same code on serving? 06:12 OldCoder Yes 06:12 OldCoder Technically my servers are clients 06:12 OldCoder But I have not packaged this for download 06:12 jyfl987 btw. i found that some sound mod makes the expierences much better 06:13 OldCoder Once it is loaded yes 06:13 OldCoder The slow load needs to be looked at 06:13 OldCoder VanessaE has suggested streaming 06:13 jyfl987 OldCoder: yes, this is another problem 06:14 OldCoder Preloaded cache helps but that is simply a work around 06:14 jyfl987 OldCoder: streaming is bad for bandwidth 06:14 OldCoder Then another solution is needed 06:14 OldCoder The packet size may be wrong etc. 06:14 jyfl987 why is slow? 06:14 OldCoder Don't know yet 06:14 jyfl987 i found even on local server , the loading is also slow 06:15 jyfl987 is it caused by the writting to disk IO? 06:15 OldCoder I don't think so 06:15 OldCoder I suspect something simple and fundamental 06:15 OldCoder Such as packet size 06:15 celeron55 the slow load time is due to too simple bandwidth throttling by the network stack 06:15 jyfl987 then you cant explain why it slow on local server 06:15 OldCoder Is it? 06:15 celeron55 if somebody has any idea how to do it better, it's fairly easy to add 06:16 OldCoder celeron55, I've actually designed protocol stacks but it was a long time ago. Could look at it next year. 06:16 celeron55 minetest has it's own reliability layer on top of UDP (which probably everybody knows) 06:16 OldCoder In lieu of TCP I assume 06:17 jyfl987 yep, but the protocol.txt still empty 06:17 OldCoder Calinou, Hi 06:17 celeron55 OldCoder: take a quick look at Peer::reportRTT() in connection.cpp 06:17 OldCoder Proceeding now 06:18 celeron55 it currently just switches between speeds based on raw average ping... which works sometimes, but usually not too well 06:18 OldCoder Reading 06:18 celeron55 or, well, varies the speed 06:18 jyfl987 so its a soft limitation? 06:18 OldCoder Not too long 06:19 OldCoder Heuristic 06:19 OldCoder Not limitation but heuristic 06:19 OldCoder Could use more comments 06:20 OldCoder Would be easy enough to fiddle with these hardcoded values 06:20 celeron55 ideally it should measure the derivative of RTT to speed, and settle to the point where RTT starts to raise too much 06:20 OldCoder I can't produce an intelligent solution myself until next year 06:20 OldCoder Wait; I can probably do that 06:20 * OldCoder sighs 06:20 OldCoder celeron55, for reasons alluded to recently I can't do much until 2013 06:21 OldCoder But this looks like fun 06:21 OldCoder So track RTT 06:21 OldCoder Approximate derivative 06:21 OldCoder Adjust and see how that affects the derivative? 06:21 OldCoder Something like that? 06:21 jyfl987 celeron55: can you add a `locale` item to configure so that in win32 we could also use our own locale? 06:22 celeron55 jyfl987: i have done and won't do anything; ask someone else, who then should report to eg. thexyz 06:22 jyfl987 i have opened debug, and found in win7 , the locale is not like zh_CN(my locale on linux), its about `simplyfied chinese`, that's not good 06:22 celeron55 i just hang around as a random consultant currently 8) 06:22 jyfl987 celeron55: you have done what? 06:23 OldCoder celeron55, random consultants can be quite useful :-) 06:23 celeron55 jyfl987: nothing 06:23 jyfl987 give up for this project? 06:23 OldCoder jyfl987, No 06:23 OldCoder jyfl987, He is acting as an advisor 06:23 celeron55 jyfl987: i use my coding efforts on other projects 06:23 OldCoder jyfl987, things will move forward with time 06:23 celeron55 because minetest isn't the only thing in the world (suprising, huh?) 06:24 jyfl987 celeron55: so you wont maintain the project? 06:24 * OldCoder chuckles 06:24 OldCoder jyfl987, see above. It is fine. 06:24 jyfl987 who is the new maintainer? 06:24 OldCoder jyfl987, the group 06:24 OldCoder He has opened the master sources to three people 06:24 OldCoder Who will coordinate contributions from the community 06:24 jyfl987 good, i want to suggest again , is it possible to use c instead of cpp 06:24 OldCoder That is too major a change ATM 06:24 OldCoder Possibly in the future 06:25 OldCoder I could handle that 06:25 jyfl987 and using a vm to instead the lua scripting api 06:25 Calinou OldCoder: huh? opened the master sources? did you mean three people got commit access? 06:25 OldCoder Calinou, IIRC 06:25 darkrose jyfl987: no 06:25 OldCoder I think they are darkrose thexyz and PilzAdam 06:25 celeron55 need to go and shut down this temporary connection though -> 06:25 Calinou probably not, else there would've been commits recently :P 06:25 OldCoder Calinou, this was very recent 06:25 thexyz Calinou: of course he did 06:26 jyfl987 ok , just using c, this will made me feel better 06:26 OldCoder jyfl987, I don't know if the group will accept it but I'll consider doing a C version in the future 06:27 jyfl987 OldCoder: then i need your github's addr, want to trace on it 06:27 Calinou thexyz should probably merge his branch with the official one 06:27 OldCoder jyfl987, If I return to full time development O.K. 06:27 OldCoder Calinou, Key changes will be merged. For example LevelDB. 06:27 Calinou why not all of them? 06:27 thexyz Calinou: i should firstly merge all my branches into my master one 06:27 Calinou ah 06:27 OldCoder jyfl987, My GitHub is on my website: 06:28 OldCoder http://oldcoder.org/ 06:28 thexyz then wait for somebody more experienced in c++/minetest to review my changes 06:28 OldCoder There is no MT work there ATM 06:28 jyfl987 OldCoder: oop 06:28 * jyfl987 i need to work, its afternoon 06:28 OldCoder jyfl987, Have fun 06:30 OldCoder jyfl987, If you wish to try out LevelDB visit Calinou world at port 30003 on my main server VPS 06:31 Calinou k 06:31 jyfl987 OldCoder: i hope he wont install many mods 06:31 OldCoder Calinou, BTW I'd like to find out how people get out of the spawn trap. Something about a trampoline? 06:31 OldCoder jyfl987, Calinou? It is a reasonable set 06:31 jyfl987 i have tried redcrab's server on aws, which is too lag 06:31 OldCoder I have many mods and not too much lag yet 06:31 jyfl987 anyway its my problem , i live behind the GFW 06:31 OldCoder I delete misbehaving mods 06:32 OldCoder Great Firewall? 06:32 jyfl987 yep 06:32 darkrose thexyz: where are you on github, url? 06:32 jyfl987 welcom to china 06:32 OldCoder If I move to China I will set up servers there 06:32 jyfl987 OldCoder: now where r u? 06:32 OldCoder jyfl987, Silicon Valley but I must leave soon 06:32 OldCoder My worlds will be down for a week 06:32 OldCoder I have been invited to China; I may try there 06:33 thexyz darkrose: https://github.com/minetest/minetest 06:33 jyfl987 OldCoder: ok, if you came to china, be good luck :[ 06:33 OldCoder jyfl987, why, thank you 06:33 darkrose guys, chatter about servers should go elsewhere 06:33 darkrose thexyz: ta 06:33 jyfl987 OldCoder: many foreighner came to china especially beijing, and i now live here, but the air is too bad 06:34 OldCoder darkrose, you are not presently ignored. Therefore a response: Server was mentioned in conjunction with testing LevelDB. That is a core dev issue. 06:34 OldCoder I do think LevelDB needs testing 06:34 jyfl987 you could check some reporting from US embassy 06:34 OldCoder jyfl987, that should be in the other channel; she would be right about that 06:34 OldCoder Embassies are not core dev :-) 06:35 jyfl987 ok , back to leveldb, i think a more clear protocol is important 06:35 OldCoder How so? 06:35 jyfl987 need documents 06:35 OldCoder jyfl987, do come back in the next few weeks to speak with me elsewhere BTW. I need advice regarding China. PM me when you can. 06:36 jyfl987 OldCoder: i think there're 2 or 3 websites which give advice for foreigor living in china, but anyway, i will give mine if you need 06:36 OldCoder PM later 06:36 jyfl987 ok 06:59 OldCoder jyfl987, I have PMd you 13:11 jyfl9871 OldCoder: hi where is your server? 13:11 hmmmm .... 13:11 hmmmm WTF does that have to do with engine development? 13:12 OldCoder Hi 13:13 OldCoder jyfl987, that is not core dev I assume. Therefore I will answer in the other channel. 13:13 jyfl9871 ok i will be attention of the rule here 13:13 OldCoder jyfl987, I have posted an answer in #minetest 16:31 OldCoder PilzAdam, hello 17:42 PilzAdam Suggestion: move the code of falling items to builtin, so not every game has to code it 17:43 PilzAdam also you dont have to depend on default if you call nodeupdate(pos) 17:46 darkrose and if a game doesn't want falling things? 17:46 PilzAdam they dont have to define the falling group 17:48 PilzAdam s/define/use 17:48 darkrose sounds fine in theory then 17:50 celeron55_ hmm... i think i should document somewhere how minetest releases are generally made 17:50 celeron55_ because it kind of requires a bunch of non-trivial things 18:14 PilzAdam https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/270 18:15 PilzAdam https://github.com/celeron55/minetest_game/pull/17 19:12 VanessaE so seeing as how the dev survey is already closed, what were the questions on it? 19:12 * VanessaE is curious. 19:13 thexyz "what would you like to include to minetest" 19:14 VanessaE oh. 19:14 darkrose and "what have you already done" 20:43 OldCoder VanessaE, Hi