IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2012-10-28

Time	Nick	Message
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03:01	OldCoder
03:01	Octupus
03:01	OldCoder	thexyz, I can now build the new migration server. Migration of one world proceeds at 10,000 blocks per minute. Does this mean it will take several years to complete? Or are the units different?
03:02	Octupus	I think the unit are different
03:02	OldCoder	All right. I will run overnight and we will see.
03:02	Octupus	Because the map gen
03:02	Octupus	So a big patch of dirt is 1
03:03	Octupus	The whole underground 1
03:03	OldCoder	No rule of thumb about the total size though
03:03	Octupus	The ores 1
03:03	OldCoder	Hmm
03:03	Octupus	Sand 1
03:03	Octupus	Until u reach map limit
03:03	OldCoder	All right; back to the main channel I think
03:03	OldCoder	thexyz, I will keep you notified and thank you again for this interesting experiment
03:06	OldCoder	celeron55, I continue to feel LevelDB shows promise
03:24	OldCoder	thexyz, conversion complete and at least one building seems to be there
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13:58	OldCoder	thexyz, updated LevelDB results have been posted in the main channel
13:58	OldCoder	In a sentence, so far so good
13:59	OldCoder	I need more people to test the converted worlds. Presently, the main ones are 30000 and 30004. The rest will follow when things seem stable.
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14:20	OldCoder	Migration of world 30001 to LevelDB is in progress
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15:44	celeron55	thexyz, PilzAdam (, darkrose (not here)): i added you to the repo
15:45	celeron55	so... ehm... keep it stable enough and don't mess it up?
15:47	celeron55	i suggest never doing anything major without the agreement of one other of you (or me)
15:47	thexyz	ok
15:48	thexyz	(i already have a fork to mess up with, break things, etc..)
15:48	celeron55	i will try to not bother you except after you break something
15:49	PilzAdam	k
15:49	celeron55	engine stuff is relatively straightforward, but i don't know how to handle content additions
15:50	celeron55	maybe vote or something sometimes, but you need to take some kind of a consitent direction in that sense to make the full potential out of things
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15:51	PilzAdam	there are 2 ways to handle it: add everything (stable) to upstream and create a versatile game or keep it light and use community mods
15:51	darkrose	celeron55: just got the notice from github, ta... promise not to break anything more than usual :)
15:52	celeron55	anyway, the way to use a shared repo is to develop in your own forks and push working results upstream... when they work
15:53	PilzAdam	what is with minetest_game?
15:54	celeron55	also (i have a lot of suggestions 8)) i suggest using this channel for upstream merge discussions
15:54	celeron55	i'll add you to that too
15:56	PilzAdam	1st suggestion: merge this: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest_game/pull/14
16:00	darkrose	2nd suggestion, any patch with trivial spelling mistakes shouldn't need a consensus, just merge
16:01	PilzAdam	+1
16:10	OldCoder	thexyz, I assume that LevelDB will move upstream when stability is more clear
16:11	OldCoder	thexyz, PilzAdam I will not be able to GitHub for a while but if it is acceptable I may provide you with diff -ruN patches for your possible consideration
16:13	OldCoder	celeron55, I've encountered one problem after a LevelDB conversion but it may be unrelated. If you didn't note elsewhere: 70% disk savings, no 4GB limit, possibly lower chances of corruption, fewer crashes so far; it is my hope to work through any problems and make the format work
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16:46	thexyz	what is the correct way to determine if image (from any mod's directory textures/) exists by its filename?
16:48	celeron55	in a mod?
16:49	thexyz	nope, in game.cpp
16:49	celeron55	so that is client-side C++
16:49	thexyz	yes
16:50	celeron55	it's a good question 8)
16:50	celeron55	i'd look into Client and TextureSource
16:52	celeron55	client has m_media_name_sha1_map which kind of contains the information
16:53	celeron55	TextureSource will generate dummy images on first access if an image doesn't exist, so it's probably not useful (unless a "dummy" flag is added)
16:55	celeron55	notably the first one doesn't take texture packs into account
16:56	celeron55	so, essentially there is no pre-built way of doing it
16:57	thexyz	hm, there's also sourcecache->getOrLoad
16:59	celeron55	sounds like being essentially the same as m_media_name_sha1_map
17:00	celeron55	hmm
17:00	celeron55	no it isn't
17:00	celeron55	8)
17:01	celeron55	interesting; it doesn't seem to hold the dummies at all
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17:43	OdnetninI	hi
17:44	thexyz	OdnetninI: that's not the right channel to say "hi" in it
17:44	OdnetninI	ok
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18:03	OdnetninI	celeron55, where is dirt deep at mapgen.cpp?
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19:01	OdnetninI	i want to change two numbers of c++ code from lua or game.conf, it is posible?
19:02	OdnetninI	??
19:06	hmmmm	?????!
19:07	thexyz	it depends on what do you want to change
19:07	hmmmm	you're probably looking for AVERAGE_MUD_AMOUNT
19:07	hmmmm	I don't get your second question though
19:08	celeron55	the answer is probably "no, you can't"
19:10	OdnetninI	ok, thanks
19:16	OdnetninI	thexyz: I want to change a vriable
19:16	OdnetninI	variable*
19:18	thexyz	well, if you want to change var that's not possible
19:19	thexyz	but if you want to change something else that depends on this var it might be possible
19:19	OdnetninI	how?
19:20	thexyz	again, it depends on what do you want to change
19:21	thexyz	why don't you tell us what are you trying to achieve?
19:21	OdnetninI	s16 trunk_h = myrand_range(4, 5);
19:21	OdnetninI	change 4 and 5
19:23	OldCoder	OdnetninI, using what mechanism to change?
19:23	OdnetninI	game.conf
19:23	thexyz	that's impossible
19:23	OldCoder	Do you mean edit the source code? Make these a configuration file parameter?
19:24	OldCoder	thexyz, BTW there are no LevelDB problems besides the slow shutdown. Conversion of all worlds will proceed.
19:24	OdnetninI	yes
19:25	thexyz	OldCoder: nice to hear it
19:26	OldCoder	OdnetninI, it would require changes to the code. Is this important?
19:26	OldCoder	What range do the 4 and 5 signify?
19:27	OdnetninI	It changes the hight of trees, i want to make minetest more personalized
19:30	OdnetninI	hight = height
19:33	OdnetninI	??
19:35	hmmmm	I'm trying to figure out a good way that you can define a tree model
19:35	OdnetninI	ok
19:35	hmmmm	it'll be present in my new mapgen but at a later date
19:36	thexyz	isn't it better to call lua-defined handler for tree creation?
19:36	hmmmm	slow :/
19:37	hmmmm	currently my best idea is this: have the user define the nodes that make up the bounding rect of a "tree" or whatever decoration it might be
19:37	thexyz	did you try that?
19:37	hmmmm	and on certain blocks you'd define a "probable"
19:37	hmmmm	not yet
19:37	thexyz	to say it's slow
19:37	hmmmm	well come on
19:37	hmmmm	just eyeball it
19:37	hmmmm	we're talking about doing this in _lua_
19:38	hmmmm	for reference, lua code is on average 200 times slower than natively compiled C/++
19:38	OdnetninI	mmm
19:38	hmmmm	so anyway i'm saying that in Lua you'd be able to define a "tree" as a 3d array
19:39	OdnetninI	can we read game.conf from C code? no?
19:39	hmmmm	and then those with the "randomized" flag or whatever may or may not appear based on the result of the random generator
19:40	hmmmm	OdnetninT, if you had read the minetest code a little bit you would've seen 'g_settings->getS16("some_setting_here")' and such
19:40	hmmmm	one can infer that's the mechanism used to read from the configuration files
19:41	OdnetninI	mmm
19:41	OdnetninI	i don't remember
19:41	thexyz	well, luajit scores 580.4 in scimark, gcc does 906.1
19:41	OdnetninI	but
19:41	thexyz	still, i didn't test it personally
19:41	thexyz	so i can only guess
19:42	hmmmm	i wouldn't doubt it but that's with the jit
19:42	thexyz	yes, of course
19:42	hmmmm	you probably didn't see much of an improvement with jit in reality because you didn't do too many computations
19:42	OdnetninI	where is g_settings->getS16?
19:42	hmmmm	OdnetninI, you should probably learn to use grep
19:43	hmmmm	or the search feature of your favorite IDE
19:43	OdnetninI	i never use grep
19:43	OdnetninI	ok
19:44	hmmmm	thexyz, problem is those are almost purely computational benchmarks, the majority of the tight loops in Lua would boil down pointer chasing and lots of memory access
19:53	OdnetninI	i'm seing, that the name of variables at game.config is passed to an array
19:53	OdnetninI	no?
20:03	celeron55	hmmmm: it wouldn't actually be too slow to make it possible to define some "trigger points" to the map generator in mods (not sure how that would look and what else that could be than "trees"), and provide shader-like (as how it is used) lua code to be run in the threaded mapgen environment with optimized interface for just setting and reading nodes in there
20:04	celeron55	but that's somewhat complicated maybe
20:04	OdnetninI	i'm trying to make a setting variable
20:04	OldCoder	One step at a time. Yes, it's trite. But eventually quite a bit could be exposed.
20:04	celeron55	i have hoped to get to try that sometime but haven't had time or interest
20:04	OldCoder	celeron55, others will proceed over time
20:05	OldCoder	The framework will evolve gradually. Things will become more flexible. In time this project will set standards.
20:06	celeron55	hmmmm: the good thing about that would be that even very slow and clumsy Lua crap could be run, because it's threaded and won't kill gameplay that much
20:07	OdnetninI	celeron55, i think c55.me is down
20:07	celeron55	OdnetninI: sure is
20:07	OdnetninI	ok
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20:19	hmmmm	well okay
20:19	hmmmm	ahh i see what you mean
20:21	hmmmm	as for "what else that isn't trees that could be added" - you need to get creative there - you already had 'stones' in the 0.3 mapgen, for the Aether biome they could be clouds blobs, for the Hell biome they could be burning crosses or something shrug
20:21	hmmmm	I originally intended to have them handled in a decorate() virtual method for a biome
20:22	hmmmm	so I guess I could skip the 'decoration' stage and have a Lua callback defined to generate whatever decorations are needed
20:22	hmmmm	so are we sure we want trees et al. moved out into Lua?
20:23	OdnetninI	i think it is a bad idea
20:24	OdnetninI	the mag gen will be very slow
20:24	celeron55	hmmmm: i wouldn't recommend doing them in the regular lua environment (as the API is quite bloated and it is stuck to the main thread)
20:24	OdnetninI	map gen*
20:24	hmmmm	is generate_ore in a special Lua thread?
20:24	hmmmm	I'd rather have it lumped in with that
20:24	OdnetninI	yes
20:24	celeron55	of course not
20:24	hmmmm	oh
20:25	hmmmm	so how about there's a mapgen lua thread for generate_ore and decoration, and then the regular lua thread runs mods
20:25	hmmmm	?
20:25	celeron55	it's just regular minetest mod code somewhere in there
20:25	celeron55	hmmmm: that is what i suggested
20:25	hmmmm	okay great
20:26	celeron55	they can't share any global variables or anything, but rather they need to pass messages that are copied in between, or some kind of a mutexed registry (that is how you do threads in Lua)
20:27	celeron55	usually they shouldn't have any need to communicate though
20:28	celeron55	just add a mapgen/ directory to mods and have the mapgen environment scripts live there
20:28	hmmmm	ok
20:28	celeron55	it'll surely cause a lot of confusion, needs lots of warnings for noobs everywhere 8)
20:33	OdnetninI	mapgen environment scripts?
20:36	OdnetninI	?
20:37	OldCoder	mapgen directory sounds satisfactory
20:37	OldCoder	mapgen is within our ken
20:38	OdnetninI	within our ken?
20:39	OdnetninI	what can we do with mapgen environment scripts?
20:40	hmmmm	U can do ANYTHING
20:40	OdnetninI	are there docs for mapgen environment scripts?
20:40	hmmmm	no, because they don't exist yet
20:41	hmmmm	the closest you have is mapgen.lua
20:41	OdnetninI	XD
20:41	hmmmm	but that's a regular mod
20:41	hmmmm	this is modding discussion though; not engine discussion, and as such, it belongs in #minetest-delta
20:42	OdnetninI	ok
20:59	OdnetninI	I got it
20:59	OdnetninI	we can modificate tree size from game.conf
21:01	OdnetninI	wohooooo
21:01	OdnetninI	i tested
21:01	OdnetninI	and it works perfectly
21:02	OdnetninI	with only 20 lines of new code
21:05	OdnetninI	anyone want how i got it?
21:06	hmmmm	not really, sorry :(
21:06	OdnetninI	ooo
21:06	celeron55	lol
21:07	OdnetninI	celeron55 do you want know how i do
21:07	celeron55	you could have had already put it in a pastebin and thrown a link on the channel, and then shut up, and people could read it if they wished to
21:10	OdnetninI	subgame.cpp http://pastebin.com/0XnXc9Y4
21:10	OdnetninI	mapgen.cpp http://pastebin.com/fYsjZ5Py
21:10	OdnetninI	And it works
21:11	OdnetninI	i'll back in 5 minutes
21:11	hmmmm	in minetest, you'd use cin in order to convert a numerical string to an integer value instead of atoi(), but actually you ought to use g_settings->getS16()
21:11	hmmmm	instead of any of that
21:12	OdnetninI	mmm
21:12	OdnetninI	but it works
21:14	celeron55	also Settings already has getS16 and whatever for directly getting integers from it
21:22	OdnetninI	but it's the same
21:23	hmmmm	yes, but why would you use strlen()? you can just do const char s = foo; while (s++); len = foo - s;, it's the same
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22:20	OldCoder	22:18:37: ACTION[main]: Migrated 73500 blocks
22:20	OldCoder	Killed
22:20	OldCoder	thexyz, for one conversion I'm getting "Killed"
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22:20	OldCoder	Not out of disk space
22:20	OldCoder	VanessaE, Hi
22:21	VanessaE	hi
22:53	OldCoder	thexyz, you may not be able to comment but gdb says this:
22:53	OldCoder	22:53:12: ACTION[main]: Migrated 92500 blocks
22:53	OldCoder	Program terminated with signal SIGKILL, Killed.
22:53	OldCoder	No traceback
22:54	OldCoder	SIGKILL happens at random places
22:54	OldCoder	Experimenting further
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